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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1540 on: July 08, 2019, 07:55:41 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 08, 2019, 05:42:36 PM
Compostable stuff does not good at all if it goes to landfill.

I used to work on compostable polymers back in the day.  That caused me some career trouble for telling truth to power.


Sorry. I didn't type enough. The Big Ten schools are pushing hard to go full compostable with food wares ... and then they are also being composted. These things are probably contracted out; I'm not sure. However at IU and Michigan, they are explicitly advertised as not headed for landfills.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1541 on: July 08, 2019, 08:29:39 PM »
Quote from: CWSooner on July 08, 2019, 06:28:21 PM
I don't know about compostables, but it seems that a good deal of what is being publicly done is being publicly done to send signals rather than to improve the situation.  The unintended consequences turn out to be overcome the predicted direct improvements.  Replacing plastic straws with paper ones, and replacing plastic grocery bags with paper ones come right to mind.
This is a very good point. But not everyone is ready to limit using any single-use materials. "No straws forever" sounds like hell to some people. Ditto: bringing one's own cloth bags to the grocer. And with that context I can't blame people for making the mistake of eyeing quick fixes. But as you imply, that's fool's gold, emphasis on the fool.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1542 on: July 09, 2019, 09:45:01 AM »
Composting was all the rage circa 1990 because our landfills were supposedly getting full.  All that was based on some very flawed "analysis".

The actual few compositing sites that started closed rather quickly because of "issues" like smell.  I'm not talking about yard waste, which can be composted fairly easily if source separated.  If they can collect the compostable food items and then truck it all to some well run composting site, t his could work "OK" IF the trash contains no materials which are not compostable.

Composting general MSW is a mess to operate properly, though it does reduce volume a good bit.  You end up with liquids and odors (and CO2 and methane) and composted material that is still trash and has to be landfilled.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1543 on: July 09, 2019, 09:45:53 AM »
My "career" issue was being a low level technie guy who started writing reports about all the problems.  What I did not realize was that HIGH level people were pushing this theme and they did not want anything negative said about it.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1544 on: July 09, 2019, 09:53:40 AM »
politics and agendas

selfish and sad
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1545 on: July 09, 2019, 10:04:45 AM »
Somehow one of my monthly reports got passed up the line.  The head of all of this was a female VP who was pushing this hard and had been given tens of millions to fund this and that.  My report basically said "This is happening, and isn't going to happen, and here's why not."

At the time, my boss' boss was a very good guy and he grabbed me at lunch and said "DO NOT RESPOND.  I will handle it.  Don't write this stuff any more."

About two years later the whole thing quietly "went away", and the VP lady was promoted.  I spent 3 years of my career working on "compostable polymers" for no reason.
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1546 on: July 09, 2019, 10:13:04 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous Coward on July 08, 2019, 08:29:39 PM
This is a very good point. But not everyone is ready to limit using any single-use materials. "No straws forever" sounds like hell to some people. Ditto: bringing one's own cloth bags to the grocer. And with that context I can't blame people for making the mistake of eyeing quick fixes. But as you imply, that's fool's gold, emphasis on the fool.
Austin had a single-use bag ban in effect for a couple of years.  It was fine with me, I just purchased a few cloth reusable bags and went on with my life.

I never dug into it deeply, but after all of that, there were studies that suggested that the amount of material and energy put into making the reusable bags, was considerably more than the single-use plastic bags. And, for those concerned about food contamination, the reusable bags also need to be washed regularly which utilizes still more resources and also limits their useful life.  In the end, it might actually be less environmentally impactful to just use the single-use plastic bags.   But I'm not sure of that, and even though the bag ban has been lifted, I still use my reusable bags.  They're stronger and carry more.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1547 on: July 09, 2019, 10:45:31 AM »
If we would just ban plastic straws, I think every environmental issue would be laid to rest.

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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1548 on: July 09, 2019, 10:59:38 AM »
and those horrible helium balloons released on football Saturdays in Lincoln
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1549 on: July 09, 2019, 11:00:34 AM »
In January, The New York Times described a comprehensive new report(opens in new window) from the EAT-Lancet Commission(opens in new window) on Food, Planet and Health. It was compiled by 37 scientists and other experts from 16 countries, with the aim of establishing a global food economy that could combat chronic diseases in wealthy nations like ours and provide better nutrition for poor ones, all without destroying the planet. The scientists’ goal was to outline a healthy sustainable diet that could feed the nearly 10 billion people expected to inhabit the world by 2050.

For more than a century, most Americans have been eating far too high on the hog for the sake of their own health and the health of the planet. In 1900, two-thirds of our protein came not from animals but from plant foods. By 1985, that statistic was reversed, with more than two-thirds of our protein coming from animals, primarily beef cattle. They consume up to 8 pounds of grain to produce 1 pound of meat and release tons of greenhouse gases in the process while their saturated fat and calories contribute heavily to our high rates of chronic diseases.

As Dr. Walter C. Willett, professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health and a contributor to the Lancet report told Nutrition Action Healthletter, “We simply cannot eat the amounts of beef that we’re now consuming and still have a future for our grandchildren.”


In an editorial, The Lancet wrote(opens in new window): “Intensive meat production is on an unstoppable trajectory comprising the single greatest contributor to climate change. Humanity’s dominant diets are not good for us, and they are not good for the planet.”

The Lancet report does not insist that everyone become a vegetarian or vegan, but does set as a goal that people in wealthy countries limit consumption of red meat — beef and lamb in particular — to one 3-ounce serving a week, or one 6-ounce serving every two weeks. You can be somewhat more generous with pork, poultry and fish, which are better for your health and less damaging to the earth. The grain-to-meat ratio for poultry and hogs is only about 2.5 to 1, and the fat in fish is mostly unsaturated and high in omega-3 fatty acids.



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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1550 on: July 09, 2019, 11:37:48 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on July 09, 2019, 10:59:38 AM
and those horrible helium balloons released on football Saturdays in Lincoln
I think I've read that those are compostable. The plastic isnt the thing I'm paying attention to, though.

I'm still not sure we are properly managing Helium stores after the shortage scares of the late-2000s. I know He collection is up due to the natural gas boom. Still, liquid He is literally indispensable for medical, research and high tech like quantum computer development.

I'd like to see us do more to guarantee He's long-term availability for those applications. For now, I'm not sure of my exact complaint. Maybe that the pricing seems off - too cheap.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 05:44:52 PM by Anonymous Coward »
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1551 on: July 09, 2019, 11:39:11 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on July 09, 2019, 10:59:38 AM
and those horrible helium balloons released on football Saturdays in Lincoln

Interestingly, "we" are using up our helium supplies, and when it's gone, there is not more.  The US is a major producer, usually from NG wells, and we do need it for science and industry, not balloons.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1552 on: July 09, 2019, 11:42:48 AM »
How advanced would a society have to be to make helium the way a star does?
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1553 on: July 09, 2019, 12:08:37 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous Coward on July 09, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
How advanced would a society have to be to make helium the way a star does?

We can do it now, but the quantities are minute.  Even if fusion became a viable energy source, the quantities would be minute.  Once it's gone, it's gone, though we probably could drill deeper and find some more, hopefully.
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