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Topic: Weather, Climate, and Environment

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CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1512 on: July 04, 2019, 11:25:07 AM »
No doubt there are issues with the iron doping concept, including the possibility near-certainty of unintended consequences.
FIFY, CD.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1513 on: July 04, 2019, 12:04:38 PM »
The area of the United States will not support 300 million people living like the Amish.
Never said it would but if the grid,market or both crash those 300 M will wish they were Indian/Amish/Farmers
"It's the greastest gig in the world,being alive. You get to go to Denny's, wear a hat, whatever you wanna do." - Norm Macdonald

MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1514 on: July 04, 2019, 12:05:43 PM »
"It's the greastest gig in the world,being alive. You get to go to Denny's, wear a hat, whatever you wanna do." - Norm Macdonald

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1515 on: July 04, 2019, 10:20:41 PM »
AHhhhh   Whoooooo!

good suds
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1517 on: July 06, 2019, 09:09:46 AM »
Coal would be the lowest hanging fruit to close and replace.  It still would not be easy, we'd be shutting paid for plants before their time.

But coal is a pretty dirty fuel all around.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1518 on: July 06, 2019, 09:12:32 AM »
I wonder when the "Deniers" would start to agree our climate is warming (if indeed it is, and I don't mean a use of the term in any negative sense). The projections from the models really only become noticeable in decades, meaning we'd have a climate where it was clearly getting warmer, milder winters by a few degrees and hotter summers. Some coastal areas might be lost (erosion does that anyway).

But the projections are perhaps a 1 meter rise in sea level (3.3 feet) by 2100 (some of which has already happened). So, sea level change over ten years is not going to be observable/noticed by unaided humans. Temperature increases are projected at 2-7°C, the worst case would be really really bad, but 2°C over a century is pretty modest (about 4°F, or half a degree per decade).

So despite all the drama in the "news", this is a slow moving event (assuming the models are close). We can easily hit 2030 or 2040 and folks will be saying "I told you so" if the Arctic ice cap is still intact year round (which is very possible) and nobody really notices warming.

Maybe by 2050 folks will have to agree our climate is warming some, even if they disagree about the why. Maybe.


Our political systems don't do well with highly technical issues that take a long time to be apparent, and by then it's too late.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1519 on: July 06, 2019, 10:18:45 AM »
I don't mind the climate conversation being open-ended. I even like it -- when it's done the right way, at least. I probably think "the right way" is some kind of humble, honest and curious. Usually, being skeptical is using one's brain healthily. (To neither blindly trust someone else's brain nor one's own.) Of course, there are limits to skepticism being healthy. And we can bet that one of the bad limits is to be so rigidly tribal as to become unwelcome of well conceived experiments whose results are inconsistent with one's hypotheses.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1520 on: July 06, 2019, 10:23:54 AM »
"And we can bet that one of the bad limits is to be so rigidly tribal as to become unwelcome of well conceived experiments whose results are inconsistent with one's hypotheses."

I think this is a result of politics.  I think the actual climate scientists out there welcome this.  

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1521 on: July 06, 2019, 10:30:47 AM »
Definitely 

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1522 on: July 07, 2019, 08:14:23 AM »
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/06/renewable-electricity-beat-out-coal-for-the-first-time-in-april/?linkId=69831898&fbclid=IwAR0HlOhGWw6ih8W4qh0TBcxHofY9g4gWczbdD-bCuvJ83_arRjHTR4p_alo



https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/01/natural-gas-is-now-getting-in-the-way-us-carbon-emissions-increase-by-3-4/

Carbon emissions from the US electricity sector increased by 1.9 percent, largely because the installation of new natural gas plants has outpaced coal retirements. Cheap natural gas has been credited with killing coal, which is a dirtier fossil fuel in terms of emissions. But natural gas is a fossil fuel, too, and burning more natural gas than is needed to simply replace coal will result in more carbon emissions.

"Natural gas-fired generation increased by 166 million kWh during the first 10 months of the year," Rhodium wrote. "That’s three times the decline in coal generation and four times the combined growth of wind and solar."

MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1523 on: July 07, 2019, 01:06:42 PM »
Natural gas has grown a lot to be sure, but I do think that growth is going to start slowing down as renewables continue to get cheaper and states keep increasing their renewable portfolio standards. Renewables are already being deployed faster than gas generation in most parts of the West and Great Plains. Furthermore, the fully regulated utilities in the Southeast (which own most if not all of their generation) have to submit their plans for future investments and generation (among other infrastructure), and most of them or choosing to invest more in solar compared to gas or anything else (wind is not viable in the Southeast due to lack of generation potential), particularly in Florida and the Carolinas..... It's in the deregulated parts of the Northeast that has been more challenging to deploy renewables because that's where the gas production is and wind & solar are not as productive there as other parts of the country. Even then, East Coast states are starting to think about off-shore wind, which could be best solution, once it becomes cheaper.

The longer-term upside of natural gas is that it that it's infrastructure can accommodate hydrogen, which can be mixed with it, and eventually displace gas. This applies for heating and generation. The UK and Australia are already starting to test this out.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1524 on: July 07, 2019, 01:24:46 PM »
How do you get hydrogen?

It's not a primary fuel.

MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #1525 on: July 07, 2019, 01:47:18 PM »
How do you get hydrogen?

It's not a primary fuel.

Probably through electrolysis primarily, but I know there are other ways to do it. The reason electrolysis is probably the best solution in the short-term is because we're already seeing renewable generation getting curtailed, particularly in California, and that will probably happen more often and in other places in the future unless / until consumption is incentivized at those times to mitigate it (though energy storage is part of the solution, too). There are many different ways that customers could be incentivized to use more energy when renewable generation is highest (I'm familiar with a few startups trying to do just that), but hydrogen generation is definitely an energy-intensive process that could become cost-effective with low electricity prices when renewable generation is highest.

To be sure, this won't be happening soon, but given the potential uses for hydrogen (freight transportation, shipping, and other systems that can't be electrified are also potential uses), I think it will definitely have a big role in the future.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
― Bo Schembechler

 

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