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Topic: Sporty Cars

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CWSooner

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #210 on: April 30, 2020, 02:04:29 PM »
And she'll have fun fun fun 'til her daddy takes her T-bird away.

Which reminds me of another car I always liked:

[img width=500 height=280.98]https://cdn.classicdigest.com/live/carimg/148901_149000/148970_41853a7019259c08.jpg[/img]
Ay-yi-yi!  I hate being reminded of how Ford threw away the 2-seater market.
You know who made the decision to change the T-Bird into a 4-seater?
Robert Strange McNamara, architect of our loss in Vietnam!
I always lead into JFK's and LBJ's escalation of the war with a little vignette about McNamara killing the 2-seat T-Bird.
It had a more powerful engine than the Corvette.  It was faster than the Corvette.  It was outselling the Corvette about 10 to 1.  And McNamara killed it in favor of a semi-sporty, semi-personal semi-luxury car.  Just as Corvette was getting good, McNamara turned the T-Bird into a fat boy.
Would you trust such a man to run a war?
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Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #211 on: April 30, 2020, 02:11:33 PM »
The T-Bird fiasco was just that no doubt.

A 1956 Corvette was considerably faster than a 1955 T-Bird though.  

https://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/

They don't have year to year comparisons.

Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #212 on: April 30, 2020, 02:14:03 PM »
But I found this also:

http://www.superchevy.com/features/vemp-1110-1956-corvette-test

Yet when MT Editor Walt Woron put a '56 Vette and a T-bird through a head-to-head comparison for the magazine's June '56 issue, the balance was beginning to shift. In acceleration testing the two were in a dead heat: The Vette went from 0-60 mph in 11.6 seconds, the 'Bird 11.5; a tenth of a second also separated the two in the quarter-mile, with the Vette's 17.9-second pass just that much quicker than the Ford's 18.0.





Where Woron really noticed a difference was in the handling of the two. He called out the T-bird for leaning "considerably" through turns while the Corvette "...feels more like a sports car, with more steadiness and not as much apparent lean." And while both cars would oversteer when pushed hard enough, "it's easier to correct [the Corvette] than the T-bird." Woron did note that the dual quads feeding the Vette's V-8 "starved the engine on a hard left turn: the right bank gets its share, but not the left one." Right turns weren't quite as bad, he said. And he pointed out that the Corvettes that raced at Sebring had the same problem, "except that they starved out in either direction."

Woron wrote that the T-bird's ride "is definitely softer" than the Corvette's, with a tendency to "‘float' over dips and bumps, which is comfortable at low speeds and not as likable at higher speeds."



utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #213 on: April 30, 2020, 02:14:15 PM »
I like 'em both.


FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #214 on: April 30, 2020, 03:16:07 PM »
I like em both too

and ya don't hear me saying that about many Fords

but, obviously, the Vette was the superior automobile
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FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #215 on: April 30, 2020, 03:24:44 PM »
my favorite car song...........by Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen

Pulled out of San Pedro late one night
The moon and the stars was shinin' bright
We was drivin' up Grapevine Hill
Passing cars like they was standing still




The Real Hot Rod Lincoln- Alive and Well, Serving a Charitible ...
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #216 on: April 30, 2020, 03:28:37 PM »
I think that the comparison I read may have been between '55 models.  The Corvette had a 265 V-8 (it was Chevy's first year to have a V-8), while the T-Bird had a 292 "Y-block" V-8.
Only 700-some '55 Corvettes were made, as there were many unsold '54s, with straight-6s, left over.  Meanwhile, Ford sold over 16,000 Thunderbirds.  So a 23:1 sales advantage.
The Thunderbird was intended to compete with the Corvette in the marketplace, but it never placed the emphasis on all-round performance and handling that the Corvette began demonstrating starting in 1956.
To be fair to McNamara, the 4-seater '58 T-Bird outsold the 2-seater '57 model by a large margin.  So, counting only dollars-and-cents, making the switch was a smart move.  What the decision said about Ford Motor Company is a more subjective thing to assess.
But it's that same bean-counter mentality that McNamara took with him when he became JFK's SecDef, and with which he managed the war in Vietnam.
Sometimes cost-efficiency is not the most important thing.  It doesn't matter how much money you saved by micro-management if you lose the war.
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CWSooner

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #217 on: April 30, 2020, 03:32:10 PM »
my favorite car song...........by Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen

Pulled out of San Pedro late one night
The moon and the stars was shinin' bright
We was drivin' up Grapevine Hill
Passing cars like they was standing still

The Real Hot Rod Lincoln- Alive and Well, Serving a Charitible ...
Did you know the story of "that hot rod race" at the start of Commander Cody's song?
"Hot Rod Race."
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utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #218 on: April 30, 2020, 03:46:37 PM »
What about a Little Deuce Coupe?





betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #219 on: April 30, 2020, 04:22:22 PM »
I think that the comparison I read may have been between '55 models.  The Corvette had a 265 V-8 (it was Chevy's first year to have a V-8), while the T-Bird had a 292 "Y-block" V-8.
Only 700-some '55 Corvettes were made, as there were many unsold '54s, with straight-6s, left over.  Meanwhile, Ford sold over 16,000 Thunderbirds.  So a 23:1 sales advantage.
The Thunderbird was intended to compete with the Corvette in the marketplace, but it never placed the emphasis on all-round performance and handling that the Corvette began demonstrating starting in 1956.
To be fair to McNamara, the 4-seater '58 T-Bird outsold the 2-seater '57 model by a large margin.  So, counting only dollars-and-cents, making the switch was a smart move.  What the decision said about Ford Motor Company is a more subjective thing to assess.
But it's that same bean-counter mentality that McNamara took with him when he became JFK's SecDef, and with which he managed the war in Vietnam.
Sometimes cost-efficiency is not the most important thing.  It doesn't matter how much money you saved by micro-management if you lose the war.
I think the difference is that there are some cars that shouldn't be subject to a dollars and cents optimization. 

I'd venture to say that the Corvette is the flagship of the Chevrolet brand. It's the aspirational one. It's the one that people put posters up on their walls. 

Very few people actually BUY one, of course. It's a 2-seater. It's expensive (not compared to some other supercars). It's impractical. 

The Camaro is the accessible one, that has 4 seats, and may not exactly be a truly "practical" car, but it's moreso than a Corvette.

If Ford had kept the Thunderbird as the aspirational one and the Mustang as the accessible one, maybe the Thunderbird would still be around. But they went in the direction of higher sales and killed the brand. 

FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #220 on: April 30, 2020, 04:55:30 PM »
Did you know the story of "that hot rod race" at the start of Commander Cody's song?
"Hot Rod Race."
yes sir!


this is actually my favorite version - a bit more edge to the guitar

Hot Rod Lincoln - PAT TRAVERS - YouTube
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CWSooner

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #221 on: April 30, 2020, 06:34:24 PM »
yes sir!


this is actually my favorite version - a bit more edge to the guitar

Hot Rod Lincoln - PAT TRAVERS - YouTube
Are you familiar with the 1955 original by Charlie Ryan?

Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:

"Hot Rod Lincoln" is a song by American singer-songwriter Charlie Ryan, first released in 1955. It was written as an answer song to Arkie Shibley's 1950 hit "Hot Rod Race" which describes a race in San Pedro, Los Angeles between two hot rod cars, a Ford and a Mercury, which stay neck-and-neck until both are overtaken by "a kid in a hopped-up Model A". "Hot Rod Lincoln" is sung from the perspective of this third driver, whose own hot rod is a Ford Model A body with a Lincoln V8, overdrive, a four-barrel carburetor, 4:11 gear ratio, and safety tubes.

Ryan's original rockabilly version of the song was released in 1955 through Souvenir Records under the artist name Charley Ryan and the Livingston Bros.[1] A second version was released in 1959 through Four Star Records, credited to Charlie Ryan and the Timberline Riders.[2] Ryan based the description of the eponymous car on his own hot rod, built from a 1948 12-cylinder Lincoln chassis shortened two feet, with a 1930 Ford Model A body fitted to it.[citation needed] Ryan raced his hot rod against a Cadillac sedan driven by a friend in Lewiston, Idaho, driving up the Spiral Highway (former U.S. Route 95 in Idaho) to the top of Lewiston Hill; he incorporated elements from this race in his lyrics to "Hot Rod Lincoln", but changed the setting to Grapevine Hill (a long, nearly straight grade up Grapevine Canyon to Tejon Pass, near the town of Gorman, California) to fit it within the narrative of "Hot Rod Race".
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Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #222 on: April 30, 2020, 06:38:28 PM »
As per the $$ and cents comments, I have read that GM is losing a lot on any Corvette sold for base price of $60,000, which is believable.  Of course, they won't make many models with no upgrades as a result.  They likely make very little even on high optioned models.  I can't believe they make any money on the Z06 or ZR1 versions worth counting.  These are image/marketing vehicles, and a test bed for technology.

Quite a bit of Corvette tech is in Cadillacs and Camaros, including the MHD shocks for example.

The racing programs obviously are of this ilk, it makes little rational sense to have Cadillac racing cars, but they have them.

CWSooner

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #223 on: April 30, 2020, 06:45:15 PM »
An Allard J2 with a Cadillac engine finished 3rd at Le Mans in 1950.

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