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Topic: Sporty Cars

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #224 on: April 30, 2020, 08:53:08 PM »
Why did the Mustang and Thunderbird get so hideous in the 80s?  
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CWSooner

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #225 on: April 30, 2020, 09:44:29 PM »
It wasn't just those two cars.  The 1980s were the decade in which American carmakers hit the bottom and came out pretty good at the end.

Interestingly, both the Mustang and the Thunderbird of the '80s were based on the Fox platform.

In 1989, the Thunderbird emerged as a completely redesigned Thunderbird.  It has independent rear suspension, a supercharged and intercooled V6, and was in total a significantly better and better-looking car.  By 1994 it had the 4.6L version of the new modular V-8.  But the market for this type of car was shrinking, and in 1997 Ford discontinued the T-Bird.

The Mustang--which IMO did not get hideous during the '80s, just old--did not get a new platform until 1994, when it went from the Fox platform to a modified Fox called SN-95.  It got an all-new, much-smoother, much-more-reminiscent-of-earlier-Mustangs body.  No more hatchback.  No more notchback coupe. Just a fastback and a convertible.  After I think 1 year, the old 302/5.0 pushrod V-8 was replaced by the 4.6L modular engine.  This was the basic design of what would grow into the Coyote in 5-liter size.
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utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #226 on: April 30, 2020, 10:22:21 PM »
Mustang was fine in the 80s.  Thunderbird was, well, this:




Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #227 on: May 01, 2020, 08:43:25 AM »
Car makers look for some niche they can lock up for a while for profit.  The battle today is in the SUV/truck space, regular cars are almost irrelevant to domestic producers.

Ford and GM say they are getting out of the "car" business (except Mustang for Ford and one or two models for GM), and GM says they are going fast into EVs with Cadillac, which I find ... interesting.  Cadillac has tried to change their image over the past 20 years but still relies on SUVs for profits, the Escallades still sell like hot cakes.

Then Caddy develops this interesting new engine called a Blackwing and then barely uses it because it won't fit in their new models, but they will call their CT5-V the Blackwing" while it uses the Corvette engine.  Weird to me.

I have read varying figures on how much electricity we'd need if all out cars were EVs, it may depend on whether you count trucks and semis, but some figures are large, like 30% more.  So, as one tries to reduce coal/NG usage, you also may need large amounts of additional power.




utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #228 on: May 01, 2020, 08:56:35 AM »
I remain surprised that there's not more of a market for a hybrid gas/electric for pickups and SUVs.  I believe it would be a great combination for me, personally, with respect to performance and towing.  I also think there'd be some considerable application in commercial truck fleets.  

Perhaps it's just too expensive?  Or perhaps there's just not enough reduction in emissions/fuel consumption to make it worth it?  Or total cost of ownership is too high even beyond the initial price challenges?

I know GM attempted this market in the mid/late 2000s with a hybrid Tahoe/Yukon, and it didn't catch on.  I wonder if pickups might have been a better vehicle for the attempt, though? Maybe not.

Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #229 on: May 01, 2020, 09:02:46 AM »
Yeah, and hybrids with tuned small Diesels would be ideal one would think.  A Diesel can be designed to run efficiently at one RPM, say 2500, to turn a generator.  I suspect truck buyers think this is "unmanly".  We might see a "mild hybrid" soonish where the battery power is used only in hard acceleration.

The other neat trick not used is regen braking.  That allows your brake pads to last a long time, and it could replace the alternator, at least, even if there is no battery pack to turn anything later.  Trucks do a lot of braking around town that just generates heat.

This would work well for delivery vans as well, but they all seem to be gas powered today.  Think of the little post office truck thing that constantly stops and starts up.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #230 on: May 01, 2020, 09:11:57 AM »
I have read varying figures on how much electricity we'd need if all out cars were EVs, it may depend on whether you count trucks and semis, but some figures are large, like 30% more.  So, as one tries to reduce coal/NG usage, you also may need large amounts of additional power.
Part of this, though, is when the charging occurs. A "typical" EV owner will charge overnight at their residence, which is usually when business power demands would be lessened and usually when the electric load of air conditioners is lowest. 

And the "holy grail" of the EV/electrification industry is a home with solar panels, a big battery pack in the garage for energy storage, and an EV. You charge up your big battery packs all day from sunlight (using some energy for your A/C of course) instead of selling excess back to the grid, and then that stored energy recharges your car overnight. You can survive almost entirely on clean and free power from the sun. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #231 on: May 01, 2020, 09:50:50 AM »
That Holy Grail may be a ways off due to cost.  Most home owners don't have the capital to do much to upgrade their house, even basic things like more insulation, or they spend the available funds on cruises.  I last read that only 1 house in 200 in the US has any level of PV cells today.  I would think in Arizona it's almost a no brainer, but even there the level of HH PVs is not high at all.

Maybe this starts to be a factor by 2050, maybe.  Our HOA looked at putting PVs on our roof and the equation was nowhere near sensible.  We have a pretty large roof that is above the tree line.  We don't even have EV charging stations in the garage, which has cost some sales of homes, but we rarely have a unit on the market even now.

FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #232 on: May 01, 2020, 12:52:29 PM »
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FearlessF

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #233 on: May 01, 2020, 12:56:31 PM »
Mustang was fine in the 80s.  Thunderbird was, well, this:

I don't think this was fine.............but, it was better than the T-Bird

1983 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 4-Speed for sale on BaT Auctions - closed ...
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utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #234 on: May 01, 2020, 01:15:56 PM »
I don't think this was fine.............but, it was better than the T-Bird

1983 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 4-Speed for sale on BaT Auctions - closed ...

I like it and think it looks pretty good. Not as good as the 60s models, obviously.  But way better than the 73 "Grande" that I posted up earlier.

I preferred and owned the convertible of course, which they didn't make until 1983, for the first time since 1973.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #235 on: May 01, 2020, 01:25:20 PM »
Obviously the Mustang II was atrocious.

However, I might be in the minority in that I can't stand the look of the Fox body Mustang. Anything between the 2nd-gen and 1994 I don't like. 

But the best-looking Mustangs in my opinion are the 1st-gen and the 5th-gen retro. 

4th-gen and 6th-gen are okay, but nothing like the original and the throwback.

utee94

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #236 on: May 01, 2020, 02:06:10 PM »
Obviously the Mustang II was atrocious.

However, I might be in the minority in that I can't stand the look of the Fox body Mustang. Anything between the 2nd-gen and 1994 I don't like.

But the best-looking Mustangs in my opinion are the 1st-gen and the 5th-gen retro.

4th-gen and 6th-gen are okay, but nothing like the original and the throwback.

I don't know if you're "in the minority" but there are plenty of people that liked, and like, the Fox body.  The Mustang Clubs certainly classify it as a legitimate Mustang, which they don't for the Mustang II.  And I like it far, FAR more than, for example, the '73 Grande which I find to be pretty hideous and only one small step up from the Mustang II.

I also don't like the '94 Mustang.  Hood-to-nose is too sloped and pointed, something weird going on with the c-pillar that I never liked, looks way too "pinched" from the front.  I'll take the Fox body over that generation as well.

I do love the 2005 Mustang though, certainly due to its true throwback look.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #237 on: May 01, 2020, 02:16:00 PM »
I remain surprised that there's not more of a market for a hybrid gas/electric for pickups and SUVs.  I believe it would be a great combination for me, personally, with respect to performance and towing.  I also think there'd be some considerable application in commercial truck fleets. 

Perhaps it's just too expensive?  Or perhaps there's just not enough reduction in emissions/fuel consumption to make it worth it?  Or total cost of ownership is too high even beyond the initial price challenges?

I know GM attempted this market in the mid/late 2000s with a hybrid Tahoe/Yukon, and it didn't catch on.  I wonder if pickups might have been a better vehicle for the attempt, though? Maybe not.

Don't mess with my truck. ;)

I drive an F-250 Diesel with an extended cab and full size bed. Living in farm country, it is almost mandatory to have something that will get around in the winter as they usually plow our road about a week after a big snowfall. Also, I occasionally pull a 35ft camper, so the extra torque and truck weight is nice. 

 

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