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Badge gets ornery when we diverge from threat topics, so this is this. What "sporty" kind of car have you always aspired to have one day, or what would you buy if practicality was not a consideration?
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Mine now.
(https://www.jonathanmotorcars.com/imagetag/498/38/l/Used-2014-Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-E-350-Sport-4MATIC-1537549287.jpg)
My next one, maybe silver, maybe white:
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fst.motortrend.com%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F5%2F2017%2F04%2F2018-Mercedes-Benz-S-Class-front-three-quarter-02.jpg&hash=da1eec217f6f4c74cfbd374603af6944)
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(https://i.imgur.com/CBUymQU.png)
We look at this one and test drove it.
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I'm going to try to cut and paste my last several posts from the coronavirus car thread.
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Too small. We want one car only, and a golf cart. Plans could evolve into a sporty SUV too.
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I'm going to try to cut and paste my last several posts from the coronavirus car thread.
It's the weather car thread, dammit.
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It's the weather car thread, dammit.
Right.
I just discovered that when I went to the coronavirus car thread and didn't find the posts I was looking for.
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So here's my 2012 Boss 302. It's not actually mine, but mine is Kona Blue with the factory wheels, just like this one.
(https://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/img/nAsWxw0htsTU9yBTt7AQwvIdDnk=/1200x675/2011/10/19/b22f25ee-bb76-11e2-8a8e-0291187978f3/35041993_OVR_1.JPG)
I think it's a good-looking design, reminiscent of the pony-car era without being a copycat, but it has many of the early signs of what have become even more sore thumbs on more recent cars.
Those round objects flanking the running pony in the grille are non-functional air traps. They are supposed to pay homage to the blanked-out headlight sockets on Parnelli Jones' Trans-Am Champion 1970 Boss 302 racecar. But what they do is block air and add to drag.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/gUMJwD4h6zrSSJL2IE5gRf5sph4YkxiUoBsKBZZPVivgjr__rfSfkIcJpvvP5gGC6CCu61aygb50CHuqntWh2r0S0aB8D5rjZGypzYIXh-Jm9yDiV8HN-oeqYHNAocOV8gpQTnLB2Wl0f_3TwtH4lxVqNxgMDOX3Jw)
Back to the blue 2012, down below the bumper, the "intake" area is split into 3 sections. The middle one is functional--air flows through it to the radiator. The smaller ones flanking it are totally non-functional. They are for looks and trapping air, increasing drag.
Which is not in the spirit of the original Boss 302, which eschewed non-essential add-ons.
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Too small. We want one car only, and a golf cart. Plans could evolve into a sporty SUV too.
Yeah, it is too small, your choice is better I agree. We might drop in on you next January, if this S blows over.
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So here's a 1969 Mustang Mach 1.
(https://assets.hemmings.com/blog/wp-content/uploads//2018/08/613525.jpg)
Those high-up scoops right behind the doors--non-functional. What would even be their function if they had one? To ventilate the trunk?
That hood scoop for the 351 engine--also non-functional.
OTOH, here is a 1969 Boss 302.
(https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/sum-csumfffm22_xl.jpg)
No fake hood scoop, no fake air ducts.
As designed, the 1969 (and '70, I think) Mustang sheet metal had a hole for the fake air ducts, which all other 1969 Mustang models had. Larry Shinoda, the designer for the Boss 302 was adamant that nothing non-functional would be on the car. So each Boss 302 had to have a little sheet-steel panel welded into place to cover up the hole, and then blended into the rest of the rear-fender panel.
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(https://i.imgur.com/4neaEnV.jpg)
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Nice-looking '68 Camaro, as '68 Camaros go. My brother had one. Not nearly as nice as that one.
I was never a fan of big-block (427 in this instance) pony cars. Maybe because I drove one of these before I ever drove a pony car.
(https://www.datsun.org/roadster/forsale/images/1969_datsun2000_mstpeter3.jpg)
(Never had a roll-bar on mine.)
So I liked handling more than straight-line acceleration. Late '60s pony cars didn't handle well in general, but they really had trouble going around corners with big-block cast-iron engines under the hood.
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This is what I picked up Mrs. 847 in, for our first date. It's probably why she liked me.
(https://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/22527314375_7c11b3d5f1_o.jpg)
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924 or 944, Badge?
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Oops sorry, didn't see this threaded and posted a couple times to the Big Ten All Conference Offensive Tackles / Video Game thread.
My apologies to badgerfan.
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I can hardly fathom how lowly you must feel.
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I'm a first-generation Mustang guy, but I also really like this Camaro. A friend in high school had one almost identical, that was such a cool car.
(https://www.speednik.com/files/2019/09/robs-movie-muscle-the-1967-chevy-camaro-rs-ss-from-better-off-dead-2019-09-13_05-32-25_787909-960x441.png)
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I had a new 1973 Chevy Nova with the F41 suspension. It was the same car as the Camaro but had more room (a lot). The live rear axle was aptly named. I thought of it as a fast car at the time, I think it did 0-60 in 8.5 seconds. My GTI with a 4 banger does it in about 6 seconds. My wife's CTS with a 4 banger did it in about 6 seconds.
Those older cars are very cool, but in reality, they drove like crap relative to anything new. A Honda Accord would leave them in the dust (with some exceptions).
A park near us in Cincy would have old car shows with car just parked out in the grass, no admission charged. It was very very neat to see some of these cars there.
Car design today is so hampered by various and sundry restrictions, I don't think we have many classics today that will stand the test of time. I do like the current Mustang. The Camaro is probably a better "track car" but the slit windows are very off putting when you're inside.
(https://i.imgur.com/rPEz0FW.jpg)
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924 or 944, Badge?
944 Turbo.
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(https://i.imgur.com/aqbBcBc.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0IHdeeC.png)
Had the wife stayed with a convertible, I would have picked between these two I think. The BMW is more expensive and gets better mpgs and sounds pretty good with that in line 6. That is the 240i. It gets into Corvette territory though.
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I have a golf cart - she's named Hooter
(https://i.imgur.com/tRqMrMo.jpg)
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Here's my dream car...
(https://i.imgur.com/ZJFHdLD.jpg)
Of course, if you want something sporty, I sure wouldn't mind this...
(https://i.imgur.com/hVtywxy.png)
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It's time to get a new car for my wife, and I'm trying to convince her to get a Mustang convertible, or maybe a 4-series BMW with the retractable hard top.
She wants a Ford Explorer. She's way more practical than I am.
(https://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/2017-BMW-4-Series-Convertible-test-drive-30-1024x683.jpg)
.
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This is a possibility too. Not really sporty though.
(https://www.motorwerks.com/inventoryphotos/2559/4jgdf6ee3kb232974/ip/3.jpg?height=400)
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She's really set on the Explorer, because she loves the motor on my F150 (the 3.5L twin turbo) and the Explorer ST she wants has the same engine. We test drove it, and I gotta say, it's a pretty sweet ride.
It will tow the boat, so that's all I really care about. Won't tow the RV of course, but that's what the pickup is for.
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/2020-ford-explorer-st-106-1567185384.jpg?crop=0.869xw:0.709xh;0,0.215xh&resize=980:*)
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My wife would like to drive a Cadillac, just to see how it is.
She would also like to try a Lincoln, but I think it's only because she likes the Matthew dork from Texas. Heh.
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The Caddy SUVs are not very competitive IMHO. I would get them on occasion as a loaner from the dealer, I didn't like them. It is good to drive various competitive vehicles and see what fits. Pay attention to seat comfort and position, that is oft overlooked.
I tested the small Mercedes SUV as a Diesel. It was OK, but the Honda is probably a better deal/value, I think.
In general I dislike SUVs anyway. I was amazed how many SUVs (miniutes) are apparent in France today.
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Oh, of course the seats are important. We will be back and forth from Wisconsin and Florida for quite a while yet, so we'll need something comfortable. The Porsche Cayenne is out. It's fine for a couple of hours, but not for a couple of days.
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I've driven this for 8 hours at a stretch a few times and it's more comfortable than I expected. The CTS was actually a bit of a stiff ride for a "luxury car" and it had the fancy shocks. I put this in Comfort setting and it's fine. I don't have to downshift going up hills or to accelerate from 70 mph unless I really want to get on it. It has decent room in the back. It is a bit low to get in and out at my age. We get 38-40 mpg on the highway driving around 77. It does request premium gas.
I think it's a decent combination of practical and sporty and economical.
(https://i.imgur.com/MIDUNsh.jpg)
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This Volvo C30 is like my wife's car.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/LfsDIPfxcCdY_qIZhBnIX7n5kCojCHgFYDCHeKeArQfAApETpvSwau46XGXeFZWOrrXk57eqisMG6goF5UTUvoBMfNaummVP)
It's a great road car. We drive it to Santa Fe and back twice a year. Gets great gas mileage. Has Sirius/XM/whatever satellite radio, so the great dead area for radio reception between Amarillo and Tucumcari is no problem.
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I still love my Tahoe. I decided not to trade it in when we bought the pickup, which has been great because the Tahoe seats 7, where the pickup only seats 5 and my wife's current convertible only seats 4. But the Tahoe is 15 years old now and getting to be a bit of a maintenance problem. It's still useful to me but we're going to hit a point soon where I don't want to throw good money after bad.
That's why my wife wants an Explorer, she calls it her soccer-mom car and she's happy with that.
I still think she should get the Mustang or BMW convertible, though... :)
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Oh, of course the seats are important. We will be back and forth from Wisconsin and Florida for quite a while yet, so we'll need something comfortable. The Porsche Cayenne is out. It's fine for a couple of hours, but not for a couple of days.
The Ford Flex would be comfortable for a couple of decades. Like a La-Z-Boy on wheels!
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An early model Porsche called the Ferdinand (or Elephant) Ca. 1943, driven a fair but in Russia.
(https://i.imgur.com/s4VVGd6.png)
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The Ford Flex would be comfortable for a couple of decades. Like a La-Z-Boy on wheels!
I've never been a Ford guy. It's either GM or German for me, although I'm warming up to Genesis lately.
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Hyundai has really upped their game of late. I would check out their offerings were I in the market. My kid in Texas is looking at the Veloster N.
There aren't many "bad" vehicles out there today. Some of the Dodge things don't appear to me, their heavy Chargers etc. I think some cars are over priced (duh) based on image like the Fiat 500, but whatever, it's not a terrible car. We had a MiniCooper S in Boston which I drove quite a bit and did not care for at all.
You can just about go with whatever styling you like, and whatever fits you the best. My kid in Columbus is driving my little Chevy Sonic and it seems to be doing fine.
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Hyundai has that new big SUV out now. Looks nice, but I'm still a bit leery on those. Gives me pause on Genesis too, but I know a few guys who have them and they love it.
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It gets good reviews by the car mags.
(https://i.imgur.com/qT78Iu4.jpg)
https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/palisade (https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/palisade)
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Yeah, it looks nice too. I think Kia has a large on out too now. Is Kia made by Hyundai?
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My wife would like to drive a Cadillac, just to see how it is.
She would also like to try a Lincoln, but I think it's only because she likes the Matthew dork from Texas. Heh.
dork knows nothing about ice fishing
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I'm a first-generation Mustang guy, but I also really like this Camaro. A friend in high school had one almost identical, that was such a cool car.
(https://www.speednik.com/files/2019/09/robs-movie-muscle-the-1967-chevy-camaro-rs-ss-from-better-off-dead-2019-09-13_05-32-25_787909-960x441.png)
friend of mine had one of these in high school - silver
no power steering so, had very skinny tires on the front and much wider tires than these on the back
Tried to trade him my 70 Nova SS but never happened
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The Kia is the same mechanically.
https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/telluride (https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/telluride)
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Definitely not "cheap".
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An early model Porsche called the Ferdinand (or Elephant) Ca. 1943, driven a fair but in Russia.
(https://i.imgur.com/s4VVGd6.png)
The Wehrmacht also used this Porsche design.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Bundesarchiv_N_1603_Bild-192%2C_Sizilien%2C_Reifenpanne_mit_VW-K%C3%BCbelwagen.jpg)
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Here's my dream car...
(https://i.imgur.com/ZJFHdLD.jpg)
Of course, if you want something sporty, I sure wouldn't mind this...
(https://i.imgur.com/hVtywxy.png)
You and I share the same dream. :)
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Those Cobra's with a 427 had 4-5 second 0-60 times but they could do quarter miles in the 12-14 second range, which was very fast for the day.
https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/shelby-0-60-mph-times/ (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/shelby-0-60-mph-times/)
My guess is they did not handle that well, but that isn't the reason to own one of course.
A Ford Mustang GT will accelerate roughly the same, and that's not the top model any more. For both types, traction off the line becomes problematic. A GT convertible I think would be a nice vehicle, reasonably roomy considering, nice styling, good handling, good brakes, OK fuel economy ...
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I haven't driven a V8 Mustang in years, but I drove the neighbor kid's new(ish) Mustang with the turbocharged ecoboost engine and that was really fun. Plenty of pickup, little to no noticeable turbo lag.
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We had an eco-boost convertible Mustang as a rental and I hated it. The 10 speed transmission was never in the right gear it seemed and the noise was horrible. It also did not have much power it seemed to me unless I really nailed it. The car may have been "tired". I was surprised how slow it was. I checked under the hood to see if it had the old V6 in it.
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Definitely wasn't my experience, although the one I drove was not convertible.
But I will say that the larger ecoboost engine in my F150, has more kick than the Mustang did. Especially when I put it in "Sport" mode.
In unrelated news, I no longer allow my i s c & a aggie wife to drive in "Sport" mode. :)
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I am used to the sudden urge you get from a manual transmission. The car mags have it 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, which is half a second faster than my GTI, but it didn't feel like it. Maybe somebody dumped E85 gas into it or something although I did refill it a couple of times, had it in wine country.
i didn't like the steering either.
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I am used to the sudden urge you get from a manual transmission. The car mags have it 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, which is half a second faster than my GTI, but it didn't feel like it. Maybe somebody dumped E85 gas into it or something although I did refill it a couple of times, had it in wine country.
i didn't like the steering either.
I hate automatics in nearly every vehicle, but especially in sporty vehicles.
I realize that they're now considered faster than manuals, but they're no fun.
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I am used to the sudden urge you get from a manual transmission. The car mags have it 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, which is half a second faster than my GTI, but it didn't feel like it. Maybe somebody dumped E85 gas into it or something although I did refill it a couple of times, had it in wine country.
i didn't like the steering either.
well, it was a Ford
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Here's my dream car...
[img width=500 height=332.983]https://i.imgur.com/ZJFHdLD.jpg[/img]
...
Shelby wanted to win at Le Mans, but the Cobra (early chassis/body combo with the 289 engine) had too much drag, limiting it to 157 mph on the Mulsanne Straight, compared to the ruling Ferrari 250 GTO, which could go about 30 mph faster.
So he put Pete Brock to work on designing a closed car with less drag.
Brock produced this.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Shelby_Daytona%2C_1964.JPG/1280px-Shelby_Daytona%2C_1964.JPG)
By the time they got this car--the Daytona Coupe--sorted out, Shelby had moved on to the Ford GT40 project, so Brock and a few other California hot-rodders were left to campaign this in international competition. All they did was win the World Championship of Makes in the GT category, the first world championship for any American car.
Here's the story (https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a26376/coupe-de-grace-shelby-daytona-coupe-story/).
Because this was a triumph of an underfunded afterthought, it's an even cooler story--IMO--than "Ford vs. Ferrari."
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(https://i.imgur.com/T7RxpkS.jpg)
Dodge Demon General Lee.....gonna need to get rid of the front lip and change the suspension for all the jumps I'd be doing. And smokin' Hellcats, Vettes, or Mustangs off the line.
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that's racist!
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Those Cobra's with a 427 had 4-5 second 0-60 times but they could do quarter miles in the 12-14 second range, which was very fast for the day.
https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/shelby-0-60-mph-times/ (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/shelby-0-60-mph-times/)
My guess is they did not handle that well, but that isn't the reason to own one of course.
A Ford Mustang GT will accelerate roughly the same, and that's not the top model any more. For both types, traction off the line becomes problematic. A GT convertible I think would be a nice vehicle, reasonably roomy considering, nice styling, good handling, good brakes, OK fuel economy ...
I just believe that the AC Shelby Cobra was about the sexiest car ever made. And it's hp to weight ratio was pretty awesome also.
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As I recall, for a long time it held the record for 0-100-0, as well.
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Front engine rear wheel drive cars can't be that fast off the line. I think the fastest 0-60 time I've seen for one (stock) is 2.9 seconds, and that was a bit suspect. That is crazy fast of course, but rear/mid engine supercars get well into the twos, and I think the Porsche Turbo S is 1.9 seconds.
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For the record, there were two varieties of the Shelby Cobra.
The first one was a modified AC Ace with a Ford small-block (260/289) V-8 stuffed into it, replacing the previous L-6.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Shelby_AC_Cobra%2C_CSX2000.JPG/1280px-Shelby_AC_Cobra%2C_CSX2000.JPG)
This was the Mark I. It had an ancient transverse-leaf suspension on both ends and a recirculating-ball steering system. After 75 were produced, the 260 engine was replaced with a 289 (same block). 51 Mark Is with the 289 were produced.
Starting with the 127th car, the steering was changed to a rack-and-pinion design. This was the Mark II, of which some 528 were built.
The Mark III, which is what nearly all replica Cobras are built to look like, was much different. It had a coil-spring suspension at both ends, redesigned, heavier, stiffer chassis, and modified bodywork (the fender flares and the vents behind the front wheel openings are the easy giveaways), plus a big-block 427 V8 engine. This one would do 185 mph in competition tune.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Shelby_Cobra_427_%28539467867%29.jpg/1280px-Shelby_Cobra_427_%28539467867%29.jpg)
Only 56 of the planned 100 competition models were produced, and Shelby did not get it homologated for racing at the time. Of those 56, only 25 were sold as racers. The other 31 were detuned and fitted with windscreens, and sold called "S/C" (for semi-competition) models.
There were 250 Mark III production models. Some of the later ones had 428 engines, cheaper, with longer stroke and smaller bore, than the 427.
Replicas of this are what we see on the streets. However, very few of them have big-block engines in them, much less 427s. Most have either small-block 302 V8s or tall-deck small-block 351 V8s in them.
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Honestly it might be sacrilege, but the Cobra I'd take would be essentially a modern chassis and frame and suspension, hidden behind the iconic Cobra body.
I've I got stupid rich, I'd buy a REAL Cobra, for whatever it cost, and it would likely almost never leave the garage.
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so, my golfing buddy is at the course tonight in his 2015 Z06 Vette
He's had this car for 5 years and I've never seen it or heard about it until tonight!
It has less than 1,000 miles on it.
holy moly, a 6.2 liter with 650 hp and 650 FP of torque
(https://i.imgur.com/xDhcaqH.jpg)
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Yeah, and the Z06 is not the top of the line. The C8 top of the line apparently is going to be called a "Zora" and have 1,000 hp, with electric motors driving the front wheels.
That seems like a lot of engineering investment to make a car to sell a few hundred a year, but Cadillac developed a "Blackwing" V8 engine and barely used that in anything.
It will not fit in the CT5 engine bay.
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I think if I wanted a "true sportscar" and had say $80 K to burn on a lark, I'd get this:
(https://i.imgur.com/jky5jV7.jpg)
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster)
Not everyone will understand the magnificence of the 2020 Porsche 718 Boxster, especially compared with click-bait rivals such as the all-new 2020 Chevy Corvette (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette). Still, those who have experienced the convertible Porsche's (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche) perfectly balanced chassis and serene steering will see the light and understand why it made our 10Best list (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29797556/10best-2020-porsche-718-boxster-cayman/) again. Despite their rough-sounding engines, the Boxster's trio of turbocharged flat-fours will otherwise charm with speedy acceleration and a pair of terrific transmissions. This soft-top sports car isn't intended to be practical. No. The 2020 718 Boxster is meant to put its driver on a pedestal and redefine the sports car (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g27197524/best-sports-cars/) genre.
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https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/test-drivean-honest-take-on-the-2019-bmw-m240i-xdrive-convertible-ar182966.html (https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/test-drivean-honest-take-on-the-2019-bmw-m240i-xdrive-convertible-ar182966.html)
(https://i.imgur.com/qNDmP2P.png)
Were I to be more practical, I'd go with this one and be delighted as well. They sound good too.
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I really like the way BMWs drive... But I'd never own one.
I'm the "keep a car for 10+ years if you can" type, and they're not known for holding up well without a lot of money going into them to keep them well.
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I think if I wanted a "true sportscar" and had say $80 K to burn on a lark, I'd get this:
(https://i.imgur.com/jky5jV7.jpg)
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster)
Not everyone will understand the magnificence of the 2020 Porsche 718 Boxster, especially compared with click-bait rivals such as the all-new 2020 Chevy Corvette (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette). Still, those who have experienced the convertible Porsche's (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche) perfectly balanced chassis and serene steering will see the light and understand why it made our 10Best list (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29797556/10best-2020-porsche-718-boxster-cayman/) again. Despite their rough-sounding engines, the Boxster's trio of turbocharged flat-fours will otherwise charm with speedy acceleration and a pair of terrific transmissions. This soft-top sports car isn't intended to be practical. No. The 2020 718 Boxster is meant to put its driver on a pedestal and redefine the sports car (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g27197524/best-sports-cars/) genre.
not sure I could get a set of golf clubs in the trunk
Obviously, most of these sports cars are small and luggage space isn't a high priority
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Clubs fit fine in the Boxster. Just take your woods out and lay them across the back portion of the trunk. The bag (if it's a carry/stand bag) will fit with the irons still in the bag.May 10, 2005
For most who own one of these, it's a second car, not a primary.
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might be a 2nd car, but I'd really like to enjoy driving it to a from the course
I suppose I could make it work
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(https://mediaserver.mbusa.com/proxy/mbusa/2020/gta?client=mb&brand=mbusa&resp=err_status%2Cpng&quality=90&vehicle=2020_gta&pov=e01%2Crt&paint=2_589&fabric=4_641&sa=0_793%2C0_h70%2Cnoglints%2Cshadow&width=2880&height=1200&w=6407&h=4678&x=1929&y=2612&bkgnd=transparent)
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Yup that's a pretty car, badge.
My i s c & a aggie wife likes the one they use as the Formula 1 pace car:
(https://www.coches.com/fotos_historicas/amg/Mercedes-GT-R-F1-Safety-Car-C190-2018/amg_mercedes-gt-r-f1-safety-car-c190-2018_r27.jpg)
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I've I got stupid rich, I'd buy a REAL Cobra, for whatever it cost, and it would likely almost never leave the garage.
If you can afford another one, drive the one you bought. I don't understand having a dream car and not driving it. If it's an investment, then call it that. If it's a dream car, ENJOY it.
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If you can afford another one, drive the one you bought. I don't understand having a dream car and not driving it. If it's an investment, then call it that. If it's a dream car, ENJOY it.
It'd come out every once in a while...
But when you're talking about original Cobra 427s, they're selling for probably >$1M and because they're very rare, are more along the lines of museum pieces.
If I were driving around, and god forbid got hit by someone and totaled the thing, I'd feel like I had inadvertently destroyed a piece of history.
I'd also have a kit version with a modern engine, suspension, tires, etc that I could hooligan around in. Those come in MUCH less expensive...
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If you can afford another one, drive the one you bought. I don't understand having a dream car and not driving it. If it's an investment, then call it that. If it's a dream car, ENJOY it.
this is what I told my buddy last night
5 years and under 1,000 miles
enjoy it!
it's not really a collector car, it's going to depreciate regardless of miles
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Where can you drive a high performance car these days anywhere near its capabilities (and yours) outside a track?
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Where can you drive a high performance car these days anywhere near its capabilities (and yours) outside a track?
West Texas.
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Well, yeah, you could stretch its legs, but what about some curves? Safely? Not many places left.
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not really at the capabilities of anything with over 600hp or the handling of a newer Vette
but, you can have a little fun in Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota
I used to hit 150 mph plus on my motorcycle once a month or more
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oh, yer gonna throw safely in there
shit
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Well, yeah, you could stretch its legs, but what about some curves? Safely? Not many places left.
Plenty of curves out there on those roads, as they twist through the foothills.
Not sure what you mean when you say "safely" though-- sounds to me like you're saying the only place you could EVER do it, was a track. Which is fine, but is something different than saying, "there aren't many places you can do it 'these days'" with the implication that there used to be. But if tracks are the only place you consider safe, then there's been no change from before, to now.
Maybe I'm misreading though?
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I was thinking about the safety of others, but I presume "out there" there are not many others around, so my point is irrelevant. Any time you up your speed and drive near the capabilities of your car you are being less safe. You have less of a margin for reaction is something unexpected happens.
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That's certainly true.
And yeah, depending on the time and season, you can find roads out there where you won't encounter another car for 60 miles. Police, or otherwise. :)
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Circa 1975 or so, I would on occasion drive the Tail of the Dragon with a bit of verve. You can almost make yourself sick doing that. I drove it again about ten years ago and could barely make 30 mph because of all the bike traffic. In 1975 you'd rarely pass another car on the road. Don't bother driving it today.
It's reputation is far in excess of it's actual interest IMHO, but maybe it's different on a bike. State Route 60 in north Georgia is pretty fun and sparsely traveled in the mountains, some nice scenery also.
http://www.georgiatrails.com/gt/Georgia_60 (http://www.georgiatrails.com/gt/Georgia_60)
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even the closed track can be quite dangerous to the driver trying to push the limits of many of these "sporty cars"
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I think if I wanted a "true sportscar" and had say $80 K to burn on a lark, I'd get this:
[img width=500 height=280.966]https://i.imgur.com/jky5jV7.jpg[/img]
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster)
Not everyone will understand the magnificence of the 2020 Porsche 718 Boxster, especially compared with click-bait rivals such as the all-new 2020 Chevy Corvette (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette). Still, those who have experienced the convertible Porsche's (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche) perfectly balanced chassis and serene steering will see the light and understand why it made our 10Best list (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29797556/10best-2020-porsche-718-boxster-cayman/) again. Despite their rough-sounding engines, the Boxster's trio of turbocharged flat-fours will otherwise charm with speedy acceleration and a pair of terrific transmissions. This soft-top sports car isn't intended to be practical. No. The 2020 718 Boxster is meant to put its driver on a pedestal and redefine the sports car (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g27197524/best-sports-cars/) genre.
I'd rather have that Boxster than the new Corvette.
I like Corvettes that look like this, even though they were not much more sophisticated than trucks with nice engines.
[img width=500 height=332.997]https://assets.hemmings.com/uimage/71217909-770-0@2X.jpg?rev=1[/img]
And this, when they were on the cutting edge of mass-produced American automotive technology.
[img width=500 height=337.997]https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/1963-Chevrolet-Corvette-Coupe-Split-Window-Sebring-Silver-For-Sale-e1424308248772-940x636.jpg[/img]
But I have to admit that the '63 has fake vents behind the front wheels and on the pillars behind the windows. This rear-three-quarter view really shows them off in all their fakeness.
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even the closed track can be quite dangerous to the driver trying to push the limits of many of these "sporty cars"
When we drove "at speed" on COTA, we had those fancy helmets that secured our heads to the seat, it was pretty neat, forget what the are called. And yes, stuff happens fast at 140 mph but at least everyone is going the same direction, and we were well spaced of course. They told me they had one bad one every year, but no one had been seriously injured. These were $80,000 cars. I would do it again, they do a 3 day course at Las Vegas.
I am NOT a fast driver even on a track though, relatively.
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The old Corvettes were starting to be fairly sophisticated by 1963. The had independent rear suspensions, something very rare on US vehicles, and by 1965 4 wheel brakes. They got into a horsepower war at that point as passenger cars started becoming muscle cars.
The 1982 Corvette had a 0-60 time of 9.1 seconds. Just about any passenger car today is faster than that, at least any costing over $20K.
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My favorite supercar of all time:
(https://www.classicdriver.com/sites/default/files/styles/two_third_slider/public/cars_images/54694/SA-0011528/9014192b72942daab00af83669d62960.jpeg)
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The old Corvettes were starting to be fairly sophisticated by 1963. The had independent rear suspensions, something very rare on US vehicles, and by 1965 4 wheel brakes. They got into a horsepower war at that point as passenger cars started becoming muscle cars.
The 1982 Corvette had a 0-60 time of 9.1 seconds. Just about any passenger car today is faster than that, at least any costing over $20K.
mid to late 70s and early 80's were not good years for sports cars
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From about 1974 on to 1985 were bad years for cars period. My little Sonic does 0-60 in 8.0 seconds, faster than most Corvettes during the down period.
The 2019 ZR-1 top of the line Vette hits 60 in 3.0 seconds while the 2020 Vette with much less horsepower does it in 2.8 seconds, though the ZR1 is faster in the quarter mile as the wheels start to bite.
When we would launch the CTS, we'd hold the brake pedal HARD and then floor the accelerator. RPMs would come up to about 1800 or so depending on temperature, then you release the brake and off you go. Back in the day that was a way to fry your torque converter.
The new Vette has a dual clutch transmission and probably the same kind of launch, all computer controlled.
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even the closed track can be quite dangerous to the driver trying to push the limits of many of these "sporty cars"
Yeah, but a lot safer than on the street. No oncoming traffic. If you go off-track, there are no trees, telephone poles, big rock walls or dropoffs into oblivion... All of which are quite common and prominent on twisty mountain roads here in SoCal...
I highsided my motorcycle at ~75 mph at the Streets of Willow (http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/page.php?id=31). It sucked. But even that is not a particularly "dangerous" crash on a racetrack, and it'd be high likelihood of major injury or death on the road.
I am NOT a fast driver even on a track though, relatively.
I've always been relatively quick, whether it's go karts, motorcycles, or cars.
But as I said earlier, it's lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. When you're driving a vehicle with limits FAR in excess of your own skill, you run into the problem that you NEVER ask the car to do something it's not capable of... Until you do, at which time you're not capable of saving it.
The way to learn to drive at the limit is to actually drive at the limit, which you can do in less capable cars. If you manage that, you can then start moving up to cars where the limits are higher.
Some of the fastest riders I used to hang with were the old dudes who grew up riding in the 70's, on bikes with crap suspension, crap tires, so they knew where the limits were. Or those who had grown up riding dirtbikes, for whom playing at the edge of traction was second nature. They knew what it felt like to be approaching the line, and not to cross it.
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When we would launch the CTS, we'd hold the brake pedal HARD and then floor the accelerator. RPMs would come up to about 1800 or so depending on temperature, then you release the brake and off you go. Back in the day that was a way to fry your torque converter.
The new Vette has a dual clutch transmission and probably the same kind of launch, all computer controlled.
Yeah, a drag race today isn't about who is the better driver, but whose car has the better launch control algorithm.
I used to love in college when I'd drag race my buddy with my 1989 Ford Probe GT vs his late 90's Saturn SL2. We both had manuals. I had the horsepower and torque advantage, but his car was a LOT lighter. The two cars ended up somewhat evenly matched. It really was a question of which of us could get the power down to the wheels, balancing slight wheelspin with not letting the engine bog down.
With these modern launch control cars, why bother drag racing at all?
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1800 RPM doesn't sound like much, but probably reduces wheel spin
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I highsided my motorcycle at ~75 mph at the Streets of Willow (http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/page.php?id=31). It sucked. But even that is not a particularly "dangerous" crash on a racetrack, and it'd be high likelihood of major injury or death on the road.
I've always been relatively quick, whether it's go karts, motorcycles, or cars.
I highsided my 87 Honda Hurricane 1000 on Wolf Creek Pass on the way back from Durango, CO. Very lucky I didn't slide over the cliff.
Hah, I grew up in the 70s riding dirt bikes. First street bike was a 1973 Kaw 750 Triple 2-stroke - yup the purple one. I called it the bug killer.
1972 Kawasaki H2 Mach IV Two-stroke Triple - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-GysYXuWYY)
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1800 RPM doesn't sound like much, but probably reduces wheel spin
Wheel spin is computer controlled obviously, and 1800 RPM is near torque max, and higher would probably burn out the torque converter.
At times, a skilled driver can do better than the launch program, but it isn't easy. We had some fun just mashing the throttle with the nannies turned off, you generate a lot of smoke and ruin some expensive Michelins. They told us they changed all four tires and the brake pads daily on those cars.
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burn outs are good for the soul
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It gets good reviews by the car mags.
(https://i.imgur.com/qT78Iu4.jpg)
https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/palisade (https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/palisade)
Slow as molasses though
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Ahh. cars..my sickness....eh....I mean my thing.
Got one of these to tow the boat or the golf clubs or, if I h
Jus want to rip some 0-60s or 1/4 miles on back roads
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(https://i.imgur.com/8DulT0X.jpg)My sporty car...latest version. Have already modified the tuning, suspension and other performance parts. 😳
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I've always liked the Mercedes sports cars, the SLs, with the 1955 Gull Wing at the top of the list. But outside of some early 90s Mustangs, I've never really driven a true sports car. I've ridden in Porsches, Corvettes, a Ferrari, BMWs and Audis--I guess I've driven some Audis, too. I've driven rental Camaros and Mustangs. Meh. And I've ridden in Teslas. Holy torque, Batman.
I grew up as a car guy, loving the mid-to-late 60s midsize muscle (Camaros, Mustangs, and Barracudas), but somewhere along the line I lost it and now couldn't really see investing in such a car. We had a 1973 Dodge Dart that was actually kind of fun when I was a teenager. As a result, I developed an appreciation for Mopar muscle. I appreciate the current Dodges, but don't love them.
I still like looking, but at the end of my day, that's what it comes down to: what they look (and sound) like. Because I would never drive them to their capabilities, and, as you have all pointed out, many of the cars I like most aren't as sporty as a modern Honda Civic sedan.
SFIrish will almost certainly buy a Harley when the kids leave the house. She sold her Sportster the day before she went into labor with our first, figuring our kids needed their mom more than she needed a bike. She's always wanted a Dyna of some variety--of the current crop, probably a Low Rider. I'll probably have to get a Class M license so that I can tour with her on one of my own.
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Ahh. cars..my sickness....eh....I mean my thing.
Got one of these to tow the boat or the golf clubs or, if I h
Jus want to rip some 0-60s or 1/4 miles on back roads
Is that the Durango? I was looking at those (the R/T) when I got the Flex. Eventually I decided against it as I wanted the R/T, 2015 or newer to have the new transmissio , and simply couldn't find enough of them in the right price range...
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Is that the Durango? I was looking at those (the R/T) when I got the Flex. Eventually I decided against it as I wanted the R/T, 2015 or newer to have the new transmissio , and simply couldn't find enough of them in the right price range...
Durango SRT. 475 HP😊
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The old Corvettes were starting to be fairly sophisticated by 1963. The had independent rear suspensions, something very rare on US vehicles, and by 1965 4 wheel brakes. They got into a horsepower war at that point as passenger cars started becoming muscle cars.
The 1982 Corvette had a 0-60 time of 9.1 seconds. Just about any passenger car today is faster than that, at least any costing over $20K.
I think you mean "4-wheel disc brakes," yes?
Early '80s were the pits for performance cars.
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Yeah, a drag race today isn't about who is the better driver, but whose car has the better launch control algorithm.
I used to love in college when I'd drag race my buddy with my 1989 Ford Probe GT vs his late 90's Saturn SL2. We both had manuals. I had the horsepower and torque advantage, but his car was a LOT lighter. The two cars ended up somewhat evenly matched. It really was a question of which of us could get the power down to the wheels, balancing slight wheelspin with not letting the engine bog down.
With these modern launch control cars, why bother drag racing at all?
lol, that must've looked like a sloth racing a slug....but still fun for you, the ones driving!
I have a lady friend who loved her Civic and said it would beat my Jeep Grand Cherokee in a drag race. It was cute.
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A LOTTTTTT of Durangos for sale on craigslist for CHEAP. Something was wrong with them, not sure what or if they ever corrected it.
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mid to late 70s and early 80's were not good years for sports cars
Yeah, when you look up the performance numbers on Porsches and the Ferrari Testarosa from back then. It's hard to believe, actually.
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A LOTTTTTT of Durangos for sale on craigslist for CHEAP. Something was wrong with them, not sure what or if they ever corrected it.
Not really. Many “regular” Durango’s sold, those mostly being V6 versions. Good value. The step up version is the R/T with the 5.7 Hemi, which is super nice and actually quite fast and nimble handling.
then there is the much more rare SRT which I have. superb handling, power/ speed and attention to detail on the trim. This is what I have. Great for hauling large family or towing a boat, but also fun at the drag strip or carving a canyon road. A 5500 lb. vehicle that does 0-60 in 4 seconds is quite fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGdOZgsYnT4
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(https://i.imgur.com/8DulT0X.jpg)My sporty car...latest version. Have already modified the tuning, suspension and other performance parts
Audi RS5. Added intake, ceramic coated cat less downpipes, forged wheels. Now 550 Hp. This is my vice😉
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(https://i.imgur.com/8DulT0X.jpg)My sporty car...latest version. Have already modified the tuning, suspension and other performance parts. 😳
That's a beautiful car.
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Durango SRT. 475 HP😊
Yeah, the Durango SRT didn't exist yet when I was looking back in 2017...
If the SRT had existed, the price of the R/T might have come down to more reasonable levels.
But yeah, I think the R/T was 0-60 in something like 5.7 seconds when they put the new transmission in for the 2015 model year. I think it went from something like a 5-speed automatic to an 8-speed auto... Really improved the fuel economy and the acceleration.
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lol, that must've looked like a sloth racing a slug....but still fun for you, the ones driving!
I'd read that the Probe, when new, was running 0-60 in 6.7s. Not bad for a late 80s 4cyl model. It had a turbo so it actually had quite a bit of low-end torque for what it was. I'm sure in the 10 years since it was built some of that performance had eroded though, so I'm not sure it could do 6.7 anymore.
The Saturn I believe I read did 0-60 somewhere around 7.1s. Again, for a little econobox sedan in the late 90s, not too bad.
But hey, if it's got wheels, you can race it, right?
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https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/dodge-0-60-mph-times/ (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/dodge-0-60-mph-times/)
This site lists SRT times 0-60 at 4.5 seconds. There was an earlier R/T that did 6.2 seconds.
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https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/ford-0-60-mph-times/ (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/ford-0-60-mph-times/)
The fastest Probe is listed at 7.0 seconds 0-60, 1993, and a quarter in 15.5, which shows it was a but slow at higher speeds.
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Yeah, when you look up the performance numbers on Porsches and the Ferrari Testarosa from back then. It's hard to believe, actually.
Yeah, upthread I posted the 1983(ish) Lamborghini Countach as my favorite supercar of all time, and at the time it was the peak of supercar cool-factor and performance.
But I'll add that I definitely understand what a dog it was, in compared to modern performance. For a year or two, it and the Ferrari Testarossa competed for "fastest production car in the world" and both of them are pretty sad, especially compared to modern performance specs for even some fairly average family sedans. Top Gear (or GT, same show) did a segment on them, and they were just sort of laughing the whole time.
Still though, they LOOKED so darn cool!
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1976 Lambo Countach LP400 0-60 6.8 seconds and quarter mile in 14.4.
2018 Honda Accord 5.6 and 14.2 seconds with the 2.0 L turbo.
1976 Honda Accord CVCC times are 13.8 and 20.0 seconds., that is 13.8 seconds to get to 60 mph.
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https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/ford-0-60-mph-times/ (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/ford-0-60-mph-times/)
The fastest Probe is listed at 7.0 seconds 0-60, 1993, and a quarter in 15.5, which shows it was a but slow at higher speeds.
Interesting... So you're saying my memory from >20 years ago about numbers I found on the primordial interwebs may not be accurate? How dare you! :96:
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Meh, all our memories are fables often as not. This site I cite is "useful" as a compendium of car mag test results of the time.
Your results may vary.
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1976 Lambo Countach LP400 0-60 6.8 seconds and quarter mile in 14.4.
2018 Honda Accord 5.6 and 14.2 seconds with the 2.0 L turbo.
1976 Honda Accord CVCC times are 13.8 and 20.0 seconds., that is 13.8 seconds to get to 60 mph.
So, it was probably about TWICE as fast as my 1981 Dodge Omni! :)
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1986 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo was reasonably quick, 8.0 and 16.0 seconds.
The regular Omni is not on the list.
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1986 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo was reasonably quick, 8.0 and 16.0 seconds.
The regular Omni is not on the list.
Mine was neither a GLH nor a Turbo. If you found a Plymouth Horizon of similar years (and not turbo) that would be the same.
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1987 Horizon 0-60 10.0 seconds flat, not bad really.
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I'd read that the Probe, when new, was running 0-60 in 6.7s. Not bad for a late 80s 4cyl model. It had a turbo so it actually had quite a bit of low-end torque for what it was. I'm sure in the 10 years since it was built some of that performance had eroded though, so I'm not sure it could do 6.7 anymore.
The Saturn I believe I read did 0-60 somewhere around 7.1s. Again, for a little econobox sedan in the late 90s, not too bad.
But hey, if it's got wheels, you can race it, right?
There was thinking within Ford that what would become the Probe would be the new Mustang (which was the Fox-body mediocrity at the time). But FWD and no possibility of a V8 were the killers. That might be a great car, but it was not what Mustang fans would accept as a Mustang.
I liked the Probe. I thought that that second body-style in particular was a very attractive car, and the performance was good for that era.
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1976 Lambo Countach LP400 0-60 6.8 seconds and quarter mile in 14.4.
2018 Honda Accord 5.6 and 14.2 seconds with the 2.0 L turbo.
1976 Honda Accord CVCC times are 13.8 and 20.0 seconds., that is 13.8 seconds to get to 60 mph.
Wow--that's crazy!
As I think I posted upthread, we live in a golden age of automotive performance. And that's all-round performance--acceleration, top speed, braking, and handling. And comfort, safetu. and reliability too.
The downside is that we cannot fix them ourselves.
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1987 Horizon 0-60 10.0 seconds flat, not bad really.
Mine was a 1981, which I believe was the first model year. It was a giant POS and I'd be shocked if it ever make 0-60 in 10 seconds. On mine, it seemed to be bout a half-hour endeavor.
Its worst problem (of the many) was that it suffered from severe vapor lock issues. In the heat of the summer, that was pretty miserable.
But it was free to me, and I was happy to have something, rather than nothing.
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For about a minute, I had a turbo 1987 Plymouth Sundance.
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For about 4 years, I had a turbo-charged 1986 Chrysler Laser XT. I loved that car. It seemed quick at the time, but more importantly it looked cool and chicks dug it. If CD looks up the stats now, it's probably a total dog! :)
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcarphotos.cardomain.com%2Fride_images%2F2%2F4735%2F3321%2F24336660012_large.jpg&hash=0ec767967964883cd92625b81679408b)
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For about 4 years, I had a turbo-charged 1986 Chrysler Laser XT. I loved that car. It seemed quick at the time, but more importantly it looked cool and chicks dug it. If CD looks up the stats now, it's probably a total dog! :)
I thought the Sundance was fast too. I think it was a 4 door, but again, I had it for a minute before I bought a 1987 Mustang. That thing was a POS.
Traded that for a 1987 944 Turbo, which I really liked.
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After a drunk driver totaled my Laser by smashing into me full-speed from behind while I was completely stopped at a red light, I took the insurance money and bought my Mustang convertiable.
It wasn't a 5-liter, it was a 6-cylinder but had the luxury package and the GLX designation. It wasn't fast, but it was a convertible, and I loved that car too. Like the one below, but without the 5.0 badge.
(https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/streetside/3/16427/457966/790x1024/1983-ford-mustang-glx)
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Before the Probe, I had a 1985 1/2 Ford Escort. That's not a typo. They actually had a half-year model that was the 1985 body with 1986 engine. On a road trip a buddy got a speeding ticket while I was very sick and couldn't drive, doing 93 mph. Which is as fast as the car could go (4th gear, pedal to the floor), but we never knew exactly until it was clocked by radar because the speedo stopped at 85 mph.
After the Probe, I inherited my grandmother's 1985 Chrysler Lebaron Turbo, in light blue with dark blue faux velvet interior. She had lost her license as she was starting to get "confused" at her age by then and failed her driving test multiple times. I would have rather kept the Probe but my parents wanted to sell whichever one would get more money, and that was the Probe.
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I had a 1981 Buick Regal for a time, with the 231 V6. What a dog that was (not Grand National, which was not a dog).
After that I got a 1983 Buick Riviera with a Olds 307. That too was a dog of a car. Something like 150 HP and very heavy. It looked nice though.
Man, cars of the late 70's and early 80's really sucked.
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I had a 1981 Buick Regal for a time, with the 231 V6. What a dog that was (not Grand National, which was not a dog).
After that I got a 1983 Buick Riviera with a Olds 307. That too was a dog of a car. Something like 150 HP and very heavy. It looked nice though.
Man, cars of the late 70's and early 80's really sucked.
Indeed they did.
That THIS abomination ever had a "Mustang" designation is horrifying. Even if it was called "II"
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/1978_ford_mustang_155443622695d565ef66e7dMG_3935-e1555379789851-940x626.jpg)
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Indeed they did.
That THIS abomination ever had a "Mustang" designation is horrifying. Even if it was called "II"
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/1978_ford_mustang_155443622695d565ef66e7dMG_3935-e1555379789851-940x626.jpg)
😂😂😂
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Holy crap I forgot about those things.
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Holy crap I forgot about those things.
When I was Mustang clubbing in the 90s, they wouldn't even allow those things in.
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That's a beautiful car.
Thanks Badge. You and the Mrs. would like it. A luxury cruiser with all of the amenities, including these awesome massaging seats.
put into sport mode and put the hammer down, and now you have 0-60 in 3 flat and the 1/4 mile in 11. ( post modifications of course)
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Thanks Badge. You and the Mrs. would like it. A luxury cruiser with all of the amenities, including these awesome massaging seats.
put into sport mode and put the hammer down, and now you have 0-60 in 3 flat and the 1/4 mile in 11. ( post modifications of course)
Maybe drive it over to our side. Take what, about an hour in that thing?
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Nothing says abomination in the 70s car market quite like the Mustang II. Lots of junk during that era, but to try to call that thing a Mustang? Ooph.
I thought by about '88 Ford had figured out decent lines on the Fox body, and by 1990 it was a genuinely cool car again.
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I actually liked the lines on my '83 Fox body. It wasn't anything like the beautiful versions of the 60s, but I certainly considered it to be much better than this:
(https://barrettjacksoncdn.azureedge.net/staging/carlist/items/Fullsize/Cars/137698/137698_Front_3-4_Web.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/4b2QBn8.png)
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Man we've gone way off topic... :)
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I consider the Pacer to be the worst US car design ever. It got poor fuel economy for its size, it added width instead of length which is not very useful, it handled abominably, it accelerated glacially, it was very heavy with all that glass, and it was ugly.
It was worse than the Mustang II, which was at least a glorified Pinto.
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Wort car designed? Sure, but it wasn't pawned off as the latest version of a muscle car classic.
That's not to say it didn't suck in a truly epic sense. It did. And it's in the pantheon of all that was wrong with 1970s car design for sure. Different kinds of abominations, I suppose.
Slightly back on topic. When I was a teenager, the Karmann Ghia was still around in significant numbers--not huge--but enough that they were fun looking oddities. They didn't drive sporty, but they looked sporty, and that was enough for me. Not too surprising for someone who salivates over the '55 MB SL.
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there's little wonder why the cars of the mid-50s thru the early 70s are revered by all but the very young
could we find a way to reincorporate tail-fins again?
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_XQmPYBMjg0/maxresdefault.jpg)
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I consider the Pacer to be the worst US car design ever. It got poor fuel economy for its size, it added width instead of length which is not very useful, it handled abominably, it accelerated glacially, it was very heavy with all that glass, and it was ugly.
It was worse than the Mustang II, which was at least a glorified Pinto.
the Pinto and the Vega were horrid
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there's little wonder why the cars of the mid-50s thru the early 70s are revered by all but the very young
could we find a way to reincorporate tail-fins again?
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_XQmPYBMjg0/maxresdefault.jpg)
Probably not. Cars are designed by computers for optimal wind tunnel performance, to reduce gas mileage and meet CAFE standards.
Unless tail fins reduce drag, I don't think they'll be seen again unless we find some completely free and clean and unlimited energy source.
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Probably not. Cars are designed by computers for optimal wind tunnel performance, to reduce gas mileage and meet CAFE standards.
Unless tail fins reduce drag, I don't think they'll be seen again unless we find some completely free and clean and unlimited energy source.
Counterpoint: :)
(https://miro.medium.com/max/1280/1*Y3ZibsBlrVfWspy9HLANPQ.jpeg)
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Tail fins add weight and no volume obviously. The drag part is probably minimal.
Aerodynamics for mpgs is not that much of a thing any more really, but weight is. Cars are all pretty aerodynamic now, 0.30 is common.
Cleaning up the underside of the car is important, as well as keeping air out from underneath. And since a lot of cars can exceed 140 mph today, there is emphasis on downforce at speed which causes drag.
The Pinto and Vega weren't crappy general designs but their execution was awful. Car makers discovered you don't save much money just by making a car smaller, you still have the labor costs, all you save is on some steel and glass. Had they made those cars basically smaller versions of larger cars in effect they would have cost nearly as much.
Then they discovered that making a car smaller didn't always mean a lot better mpgs in the real world. My first wife brought a Chevy Chevette with her, a new one, and it was hard pressed to get 26 mpg highway. It was an automatic, and horrible.It had the two barrel carb on it. That was a bad car, rear wheel drive, and not much room.
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Unless tail fins reduce drag, I don't think they'll be seen again unless we find some completely free and clean and unlimited energy source.
Hmm, if only.....
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Before the Probe, I had a 1985 1/2 Ford Escort. That's not a typo. They actually had a half-year model that was the 1985 body with 1986 engine. On a road trip a buddy got a speeding ticket while I was very sick and couldn't drive, doing 93 mph. Which is as fast as the car could go (4th gear, pedal to the floor), but we never knew exactly until it was clocked by radar because the speedo stopped at 85 mph.
After the Probe, I inherited my grandmother's 1985 Chrysler Lebaron Turbo, in light blue with dark blue faux velvet interior. She had lost her license as she was starting to get "confused" at her age by then and failed her driving test multiple times. I would have rather kept the Probe but my parents wanted to sell whichever one would get more money, and that was the Probe.
The 85-mph speedo! Aaaaaggggghhhhhhhh!!!
The idea was that speeders and other scofflaws would want to see how fast their car would go, and the 85-mph speedo would make them lose interest in going any faster than that.
My first car was like this.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/_4q_rJtjk8GA2dxaZZhm55oLFK5NwxNQ6FEJLSc4N_ViPi8SAiJ2BvKO4x0ATvTBrpQwqwrSC565wE2YKVLpKLdTIM_gZpbvBMfuJhKyhfcG)
Only mine had none of the luxury trim that that one has. Mine had hubcaps that covered up the center of the pale-yellow-painted steel wheels, untinted glass, no radio, a Sears A/C mounted on the tunnel, a 170 c.i.d. straight-six with 2-speed Ford-o-matic tranny. It was 6 years old and was already worn out when I got it. lasted about 8 months, coming to grief northbound on some N-S street south of Rosemont, IL. I ran over a paper sack that must have been filled with either bricks or angle-iron.
My second car was like this, only silver.
(https://barnfinds.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/050319-1969-Datsun-2000-1-630x390.jpg)
I loved it, but decided after my freshman year at OU that I needed something bigger, so I got something like this.
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/1967_ford_mustang_fastback_154387085166e7dff9f98764dae12f3a864f85aa0b7bfc673b5428bc90.jpg)
Again, mine didn't have the upscale trim package that this one does. Mine didn't have the chrome rocker-panel covers or the styled steel wheels shown here. Maybe this one has the GT package. Mine was maroon instead of red. 289 4-barrel Autolite carb with C-4 auto trans. Not nearly as much fun to drive as the Datsun had been.
And, yes, the simulated scoops in front of the rear wheel openings were fake. Fake, fake, fake.
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I actually liked the lines on my '83 Fox body. It wasn't anything like the beautiful versions of the 60s, but I certainly considered it to be much better than this:
(https://barrettjacksoncdn.azureedge.net/staging/carlist/items/Fullsize/Cars/137698/137698_Front_3-4_Web.jpg)
That's a '73 model.
In February 1968, Semon "Bunkie" Knudsen resigned as Executive VP of GM to become President of FOMOCO. He brought with him a guy named Larry Shinoda who had been working with Chevy performance cars, especially Corvettes. A lot of what became the '63 Corvette were Shinoda's design concepts, and he designed the "Mako Shark" show car that eventually morphed into the '68 Corvette.
So Knudsen and Shinoda came to Ford and the '69-70 Mustangs were already set. Shinoda was able to create the Boss 302 both as a racecar and a street model, filling the holes for fake scoops up and forward of the rear wheel openings in the process. But Knudsen had bigger, more luxurious things in mind for the Mustang and the '71-73 Mustangs were the result. It had an inch-longer wheelbase, but it seemed like it was a foot longer and a thousand pounds heavier. But there was virtually no more interior room than in previous models.
Knudsen ran afoul of internal Ford politics (and Lee Iacocca) and was fired in Sep 1969. But the big, fat, boatlike Mustangs were already set in stone for production starting in the late spring of 1970.
Whether that thing was better or worse than a Mustang II is just a pick-your-poison argument, IMO.
There was one good performance model amongst all those boats--the 1971 Boss 351. They didn't make very many of them. They are collector's items now.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/apps.hagerty.com/AuctionReport/MecumAuctionsIndianapolis2019_T166_Ford_1971_Mustang_Boss%20351_SportsRoof%20_1F02R179758_Overall.jpg)
Car and Driver did a review of the Boss 351, even as it was already being canceled, and their test car was yellow, so I still see a yellow one in my head if I think about them.
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(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/1967_ford_mustang_fastback_154387085166e7dff9f98764dae12f3a864f85aa0b7bfc673b5428bc90.jpg)
And, yes, the simulated scoops in front of the rear wheel openings were fake. Fake, fake, fake.
If the factory makes it that way, I wouldn't call it fake, just not functional. The ones you buy and are basically stickers that lie - those would be "fake."
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Wort car designed? Sure, but it wasn't pawned off as the latest version of a muscle car classic.
That's not to say it didn't suck in a truly epic sense. It did. And it's in the pantheon of all that was wrong with 1970s car design for sure. Different kinds of abominations, I suppose.
Slightly back on topic. When I was a teenager, the Karmann Ghia was still around in significant numbers--not huge--but enough that they were fun looking oddities. They didn't drive sporty, but they looked sporty, and that was enough for me. Not too surprising for someone who salivates over the '55 MB SL.
Karmann Ghias remind me of this C/D cover story. If you can't read it, it says "The Last Porsche Speedster is . . . a Karmann Ghia."
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/7J-5OKLS_G5th7WCo1kwm8s56d6NKFR6SFqDEUyNsCTqPx5vGjIH9780H3iHJdYkxz8vJdrmIQtyAxMtzDJ4ACre4zTfObZWmnNiVZOaWwOsjjJMGQ)
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If the factory makes it that way, I wouldn't call it fake, just not functional. The ones you buy and are basically stickers that lie - those would be "fake."
Shelby put functional scoops back there on the GT-350. I guess racecars need rear-brake cooling, but street cars certainly don't.
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my first car, but with the small block 300 hp 350, not the 396
(https://barrettjacksoncdn.azureedge.net/staging/carlist/items/Fullsize/Cars/97184/97184_Front_3-4_Web.jpg)
the oil coolers in the hood were not functional
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the Pinto and the Vega were horrid
and dangerous.FF i had a '72 NOVA 250 6 cyl,decent car.Never had any Muscle cars.Almost bought a '69 Z-28 jet black with pearl White stripes
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Wondered what that '69 Z would fetch today?Prolly not much after I drove and worked on it
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Tail fins add weight and no volume obviously. The drag part is probably minimal.
Aerodynamics for mpgs is not that much of a thing any more really, but weight is. Cars are all pretty aerodynamic now, 0.30 is common.
Cleaning up the underside of the car is important, as well as keeping air out from underneath. And since a lot of cars can exceed 140 mph today, there is emphasis on downforce at speed which causes drag.
The Pinto and Vega weren't crappy general designs but their execution was awful. Car makers discovered you don't save much money just by making a car smaller, you still have the labor costs, all you save is on some steel and glass. Had they made those cars basically smaller versions of larger cars in effect they would have cost nearly as much.
Then they discovered that making a car smaller didn't always mean a lot better mpgs in the real world. My first wife brought a Chevy Chevette with her, a new one, and it was hard pressed to get 26 mpg highway. It was an automatic, and horrible.It had the two barrel carb on it. That was a bad car, rear wheel drive, and not much room.
The Pinto and Vega made an interesting study in contrasts.
The Pinto was like a small version of a big, standard car. Cast-iron straight-4 (rather than V-8), smaller transmission, the same layout in just about every way, but smaller. My sister had a Pinto wagon with wood-grain vinyl on the sides. "Pinto Squire," I think it was called. She loved it, and it drove pretty well. IMO, the only thing wrong with the Pinto was the unsafe mounting of the gas tank. Of course, that was a very serious flaw which Ford could have fixed rather than deciding that it was cheaper just the pay the damages in the inevitable lawsuits.
The Vega was an attempt to really make something new. Aluminum-block engine, rack-and-pinion steering, some performance aspirations. And it was a piece of crap. The aluminum-block engine, oddly, had a cast-iron head. It was a very fragile engine, overheated, sprang leaks, etc. It was later replaced with a cast-iron engine. Chevy had a rep back then of letting their customers do the development work, so that by about the 3rd (and often final) year of a body style, everything would work pretty well. That didn't work with the Vega. By the time it got sorted out, its image was fatally damaged.
The was a high-performance Vega, the Cosworth Vega, introduced in 1975, the 6th year of production. It was too little, too late.
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and dangerous.FF i had a '72 NOVA 250 6 cyl,decent car.Never had any Muscle cars.Almost bought a '69 Z-28 jet black with pearl White stripes
Novas weren't great cars, but they were sporty
I totaled my 1970 SS drag racing in high school
good times
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That's a '73 model.
Yes, I know. That's why I posted it in contrast to the beautiful original 60s models, and the 80s Fox body models.
Specifically, that's a '73 "Grande" model which I find to be fairly ugly.
Not all 73s were that bad though. The Mach 1 looked okay from the front 1/4, though the side shot roofline still looks pretty bloated:
(https://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2011/11/16/02/04/1973_ford_mustang_mach_1-pic-4803751349163345631-1600x1200.jpeg)
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Yes, I know. That's why I posted it in contrast to the beautiful original 60s models, and the 80s Fox body models.
Specifically, that's a '73 "Grande" model which I find to be fairly ugly.
Not all 73s were that bad though. The Mach 1 looked okay from the front 1/4, though the side shot roofline still looks pretty bloated:
(https://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2011/11/16/02/04/1973_ford_mustang_mach_1-pic-4803751349163345631-1600x1200.jpeg)
I figured you knew.
But there are a bunch of young whippersnappers on the board who might not.
Plus, I was getting ready to talk about the '71-73 Mustangs, so I identified this one as one of that breed.
IMO, the kick-up in the beltline behind the door is what makes this style look so big and heavy.
For '73 the "Ram Air" hood rode over a 351 with a 2-barrel carb.
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The Nova was the same as the Camaro mechanically if you optioned it right. Leaf springs in the rear. F41 suspension. Wide oval tires.
They really were round pretty much.
I took a course on Taguchi Methods long ago and part of it was designing something that fit together so well and easily that it was almost impossible to assemble to incorrectly. Great in concept. He was a Mazda engineer. There also was a design of experiments component that was interesting but not usable for me, nearly everything I dealt with was very nonlinear.
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I figured you knew.
But there are a bunch of young whippersnappers on the board who might not.
Plus, I was getting ready to talk about the '71-73 Mustangs, so I identified this one as one of that breed.
IMO, the kick-up in the beltline behind the door is what makes this style look so big and heavy.
For '73 the "Ram Air" hood rode over a 351 with a 2-barrel carb.
Yes, I don't hate everything about the 71-73s, but they certainly weren't as elegant as the earlier models, and especially the 65-66 which were of course the smallest of them all.
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I wonder how many running Mustang IIs exist today. Maybe they are collectible.
Ha.
I test drove one once. Gas prices had gone way up and I was musing about something economical and sporty. It was really bad.
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I'll admit, I didn't entirely hate the Cobra II version of the Mustang II, at least specifically when it was used in Charlie's Angels...
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2pgaWM11QFs%2FVLLxlJ2mBRI%2FAAAAAAAAHWk%2FM67qxWhXWzI%2Fs1600%2F76%252Bcobra%252Bd.jpg&hash=fad4881bdf0ef5bd853497c17183c2e0)
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For '73 the "Ram Air" hood rode over a 351 with a 2-barrel carb.
Cleveland Engine's made about 5 miles from my house
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Novas weren't great cars, but they were sporty
I totaled my 1970 SS drag racing in high school,good times
Well at least you climbed out,lot of lads didn't
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I've always been lucky
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https://www.motortrend.com/news/1985-chevy-camaro-irocz-info-pictures/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR1-VDim_A4X5-3rePeeF1HEoSqs5S9kNgWcqkA75bmdbzd8wNdp19ErC6g (https://www.motortrend.com/news/1985-chevy-camaro-irocz-info-pictures/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR1-VDim_A4X5-3rePeeF1HEoSqs5S9kNgWcqkA75bmdbzd8wNdp19ErC6g)
The IROC-Z was also the first Camaro (https://www.motortrend.com/news/camaro-highs-lows/) to squeak under the seven-second mark on its way to 60 mph. It knocked it out in 6.9 seconds courtesy of its fuel-injected V-8 that was good for 215 horsepower and 275 pound-feet of twist. By 1990, the IROC-Z (https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-camaro-performance-through-the-years/) could do the deed in 5.8 seconds, thanks to the sneaky 1LE options package that deleted the air-conditioning and added heavy-duty Corvette front disc brakes, an aluminum driveshaft, aluminum spare wheel, unique shocks, and extra fuel tank baffling—plus an optional 5.7-liter V-8 that put out a wholesome 245 hp and 345 lb-ft of torque.
That first Camaro comment is not true of course.
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first 3rd generation, perhaps
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Yeah, I presume that is what they meant. The only exception on the 0-60 site is the 1969 Camaro ZR-1, which was a limited production effort.
I guess others would break 7 seconds, the 396 or 427 variants. (??)
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1969/446675/chevrolet_camaro_ss-396_convertible_375-hp_4-speed.html (https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1969/446675/chevrolet_camaro_ss-396_convertible_375-hp_4-speed.html)
1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS-396 Convertible 375-hp 4-speed (man. 4) (RS).
Specs datasheet with technical data and performance data plus an analysis of the direct market competition of Chevrolet Camaro SS-396 Convertible 375-hp 4-speed (man. 4) (RS) in 1969 the model with 2-door convertible body and V-8 6489 cm3 / 396 cui engine size, 279.5 kW / 380 PS / 375 hp (SAE gross) offered since September 1968 for North America U.S.. Specifications listing with the outside and inside dimensions, fuel economy, top speed, performance factory data and ProfessCars™ estimation: this Chevrolet would accelerate 0-60 mph in 6 sec, 0-100 km/h in 6.3 sec, 0-200 km/h in 26.5 sec and quarter mile time is 14.4 sec. Specs review in automobile-catalog.
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https://www.0-60specs.com/chevrolet/ (https://www.0-60specs.com/chevrolet/)
A few others were under 7 seconds, but not many.
Interestingly, the Chevy Bolt runs to 60 in 6.3-6.5 seconds, on batteries.
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This seems to be a pretty good hot hatch. It's a three door not counting the hatch.
https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/veloster-n (https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/veloster-n)
(https://i.imgur.com/KtwGMjK.png)
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I really hate hot hatches. I understand why they're so beloved in Europe, but I loathe them.
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Heh, obviously I own one and like it quite a bit. It's a good blend of sportiness and practicality for me. How they look is not much of a concern for me personally.
I wish it had memory seats though, I really miss that.
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even my small block Nova was at 6.1 in 1970
Chevrolet Nova SS 350 4-speed (man. 4) , model year 1970, version for North America U.S. (up to September)
manufactured by Chevrolet in USA
2-door coupe body type
RWD (rear-wheel drive), manual 4-speed gearbox
gasoline (petrol) engine with displacement: 5733 cm3 / 349.8 cui, advertised power: 223.5 kW / 300 hp / 304 PS ( SAE gross ), torque: 515 Nm / 380 lb-ft, more data: 1970 Chevrolet Nova SS 350 4-speed (man. 4) Horsepower/Torque Curve
characteristic dimensions: outside length: 4811 mm / 189.4 in, width: 1839 mm / 72.4 in, wheelbase: 2819 mm / 111 in
reference weights: base curb weight: 1498 kg / 3302 lbs
how fast is this car ? top speed: 190 km/h (118 mph) (©theoretical);
accelerations: 0- 60 mph 6.1© s; 0- 100 km/h 6.5© s (simulation ©automobile-catalog.com); 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 14.7© s (simulation ©automobile-catalog.com) 1970 Chevrolet Nova SS 350 4-speed (man. 4) Detailed Performance Review
fuel consumption and mileage: average estimated by a-c©: 20 l/100km / 14.1 mpg (imp.) / 11.8 mpg (U.S.) / 5 km/l, more data: 1970 Chevrolet Nova SS 350 4-speed (man. 4) Specifications Review
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I really hate hot hatches. I understand why they're so beloved in Europe, but I loathe them.
Out of curiosity, why? It seems like it's a more utilitarian option than some of the smallest sedans/coupes out there if you are a young single person [or couple] and don't need a big vehicle.
I personally don't view them as something I'd want largely because I'm 6'5" and 41 years old, so a little sporty hatchback, low to the ground, isn't exactly built for me. But I don't "loathe" them...
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I'm 6'4" (or used to be anyway). I don't have the seat in the GTI all the way back. It is a bit low to the ground for me, but so are sporty cars in general for obvious reasons.
The GTI of course if FWD, but the general handling flaws of that have been largely suppressed.
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That estimated time of 6.1 seconds on the 350 Nova may be "optimistic" if the quarter mile time is 14.7 seconds. It should still be pulling pretty well at the quarter if it reached 60 in 6.1 seconds.
It probably was traction limited with those old tires (bias ply?).
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Yes, I don't hate everything about the 71-73s, but they certainly weren't as elegant as the earlier models, and especially the 65-66 which were of course the smallest of them all.
I liked the '67-68 Mustangs better than the '65-66s at the time. And if one were wanting to resto-mod an old Mustang, the '67-68 models are a better place to start, as they've got a bit more room under the hood for a bigger engine. They could fit a Ford big-block engine in it and did with the 390. They'd have more room to put a modern Coyote engine in there.
But the originals were lighter and were a cleaner design. If I were going to buy an old Mustang and put a 289/302 in it, it would be one of those.
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Isn't the 351 a bored our and stroked 302?
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I used to chuckle that Ford calls its 302 a 5.0 L engine.
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Out of curiosity, why? It seems like it's a more utilitarian option than some of the smallest sedans/coupes out there if you are a young single person [or couple] and don't need a big vehicle.
I personally don't view them as something I'd want largely because I'm 6'5" and 41 years old, so a little sporty hatchback, low to the ground, isn't exactly built for me. But I don't "loathe" them...
Aesthetics. I think they're ugly. Like, really really ugly. They're just a modern Pacer, as far as I'm concerned.
No offense of course to anyone who likes them or owns one, just my opinion obviously.
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I liked the '67-68 Mustangs better than the '65-66s at the time. And if one were wanting to resto-mod an old Mustang, the '67-68 models are a better place to start, as they've got a bit more room under the hood for a bigger engine. They could fit a Ford big-block engine in it and did with the 390. They'd have more room to put a modern Coyote engine in there.
But the originals were lighter and were a cleaner design. If I were going to buy an old Mustang and put a 289/302 in it, it would be one of those.
Yup, I like the smaller, cleaner lines on the 65-66. Strange chrome "scoop-fingers" on the 66 notwithstanding, of course. ;)
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Isn't the 351 a bored our and stroked 302?
Stroked half an inch. But the block is different. It's a standard Windsor small-block but with 1/2" taller decks. So intake manifolds for the regular small-block won't fit on it.
You can get 351 c.i.d. out of a regular Windsor small-block, but you have to use shorter pistons.
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If the exterior looks of a car were that important to me, I'd certainly sacrifice practicality to get something more swoopy than a GTI.
I need the interior room more than I care about looks, and I don't think they look that bad, or even somewhat bad, personally.
They are the mark of a practically minded intelligent owner who is confident in his own capacities and doesn't need some sporty looking car to establish his manhood.
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I used to chuckle that Ford calls its 302 a 5.0 L engine.
I think it was C/D that made a point of always labeling it a 4.9 L.
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I think it was C/D that made a point of always labeling it a 4.9 L.
Yeah, I do ....
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there was always a bit of room with cubic inches and litres to come up with the sexier number
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Yup, I like the smaller, cleaner lines on the 65-66. Strange chrome "scoop-fingers" on the 66 notwithstanding, of course. ;)
IIRC, that chrome piece was called a "fish-scaler." I could do without it.
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I don't mind hatchbacks conceptually, although they are not as structurally rigid as a coupe of the same model. Back in the era of the Fox-body Mustangs, the GT was a hatchback, but racers would use the notchback coupe as the basis for building a competition car.
My mom had a VW Scirocco, which was a hatchback. That was a very sporty and attractive car.
But that Hyundai hatchback that CD posted upthread is butt-ugly.
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IIRC, that chrome piece was called a "fish-scaler." I could do without it.
That sounds right to me. It's been years-- decades really-- since I was really into Mustang Club and such. Way back when, I knew a lot more of the lingo that the true collectors and historians used. That was an option that I'd do without as well, but if I ever bought one that had it original, I'd somehow learn to live with it. :)
Also, I'm fine with the 289. I'm not much of a racer, my i s c & a aggie wife refers to my driving as "granny-like" and that's okay with me. I haven't been stopped for speeding since I was 18.
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Yeah, I do ....
Car and Driver = C/D
Cincydawg = CD
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I think the rigidity today is about the same, even convertibles are pretty rigid now (not as).
The Cd is not as low as for a sedan.
This is somewhat akin to the length of a ship and it's top speed.
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If the exterior looks of a car were that important to me, I'd certainly sacrifice practicality to get something more swoopy than a GTI.
I need the interior room more than I care about looks, and I don't think they look that bad, or even somewhat bad, personally.
They are the mark of a practically minded intelligent owner who is confident in his own capacities and doesn't need some sporty looking car to establish his manhood.
I mean, that's fine and all, but this very thread is titled "sporty cars" and not "utilitarian cars."
So...
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My mom had a VW Scirocco, which was a hatchback. That was a very sporty and attractive car.
you think this is attractive, but have a problem with the C8 Corvette???
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/1987_volkswagen_scirocco_16v_1557703337e7dff9f98764da3FB17273-4EBA-474F-A56D-5C21916CA958-e1560209843323-940x625.jpeg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yZT3hyhao-o/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Anyway, I don't drive a "sporty car" of any kind. I have a Tahoe 4x4, and an F150 4x4, so I certainly range far more toward the utilitarian myself. I just like looking at, and talking about, sporty cars. *shrug*
I guess my wife's Toyota convertible is sort of sporty, but I rarely drive it.
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I mean, that's fine and all, but this very thread is titled "sporty cars" and not "utilitarian cars."
So...
A GTI is IMHO quite "sporty", just not sporty LOOKING, something old men strive for when other aspects of their life have diminished.
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A GTI is IMHO quite "sporty", just not sporty LOOKING, something old men strive for when other aspects of their life have diminished.
If you say so. I drive a pickup and wouldn't know about such things.
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That sounds right to me. It's been years-- decades really-- since I was really into Mustang Club and such. Way back when, I knew a lot more of the lingo that the true collectors and historians used. That was an option that I'd do without as well, but if I ever bought one that had it original, I'd somehow learn to live with it. :)
Also, I'm fine with the 289. I'm not much of a racer, my i s c & a aggie wife refers to my driving as "granny-like" and that's okay with me. I haven't been stopped for speeding since I was 18.
You can buy a crate 302 from Ford Performance Parts in various states of hotness and various degrees of pricing outrageousness. Click on the part number to get the price.
https://performanceparts.ford.com/engines/#302 (https://performanceparts.ford.com/engines/#302)
Cheaper to go to outside suppliers.
https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines
(https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines)https://www.speedwaymotors.com/shop/ford-small-block-v8-crate-engines~131086-13-10-344-15341 (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/shop/ford-small-block-v8-crate-engines~131086-13-10-344-15341)
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You can buy a crate 302 from Ford Performance Parts in various states of hotness and various degrees of pricing outrageousness. Click on the part number to get the price.
https://performanceparts.ford.com/engines/#302 (https://performanceparts.ford.com/engines/#302)
Cheaper to go to outside suppliers.
https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines
(https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines)https://www.speedwaymotors.com/shop/ford-small-block-v8-crate-engines~131086-13-10-344-15341 (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/shop/ford-small-block-v8-crate-engines~131086-13-10-344-15341)
Heh, thanks!
Maybe someday I'll buy that 65 I've always wanted. And put a brand new engine in it! A man can dream, can't he.
Of course, then CD might accuse me of being an old man with a small penis, so maybe I won't do that after all...
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there was always a bit of room with cubic inches and litres to come up with the sexier number
The 289 had a 4" bore and a 2.75" stroke. Racing series with 5-liter displacement limits were starting to emerge by 1965 or so, and Ford (coincidentally, perhaps) increased the 289's stroke to 3" to get the 302. The closest equivalent to 5.0 liters is 305 cubic inches.
So Ford raced the 302 (Boss 302 in '69 and '70) in Trans-Am racing, Chevy raced a 302 (a de-stroked 327, IIRC), Pontiac (with no small-block engines) raced a big-block de-stroked to 303, Plymouth (and Dodge?) raced a de-stroked 340, AMC raced a de-stroked AMC motor of some sort.
Yeah. "5-liter" just has a ring to it that "4.9-liter" doesn't.
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Does a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon count as a "sporty" car?
I mean, it's slow as molasses... And it handles terribly.
But you don't have to worry about whether or not the curb leading to your driveway will rip the air splitter off the front end just trying to get into the driveway. In fact, you don't have to worry about curbs, or boulders, or small tree stumps, or...
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The 289 had a 4" bore and a 2.75" stroke. Racing series with 5-liter displacement limits were starting to emerge by 1965 or so, and Ford (coincidentally, perhaps) increased the 289's stroke to 3" to get the 302. The closest equivalent to 5.0 liters is 305 cubic inches.
So Ford raced the 302 (Boss 302 in '69 and '70) in Trans-Am racing, Chevy raced a 302 (a de-stroked 327, IIRC), Pontiac (with no small-block engines) raced a big-block de-stroked to 303, Plymouth (and Dodge?) raced a de-stroked 340, AMC raced a de-stroked AMC motor of some sort.
Yeah. "5-liter" just has a ring to it that "4.9-liter" doesn't.
No doubt. I'm sure you'd agree, Vanilla Ice's classic rap song "Ice Ice Baby" would not have been the same without the iconic lines:
"Rollin'
In my Five Point Oh
With the the ragtop down
So my hair can blow"
Rolling in my 4 point 9 would not have cut it. Also doesn't rhyme with "blow" so there you have it.
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No doubt. I'm sure you'd agree, Vanilla Ice's classic rap song "Ice Ice Baby" would not have been the same without the iconic lines:
"Rollin'
In my Five Point Oh
With the the ragtop down
So my hair can blow"
Rolling in my 4 point 9 would not have cut it. Also doesn't rhyme with "blow" so there you have it.
Yeah, well a real rapper can think of something that rhymes with nine...
Err, why even rhyme? They'd probably just talk about being strapped with their nine...
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Yeah, well a real rapper can think of something that rhymes with nine...
Err, why even rhyme? They'd probably just talk about being strapped with their nine...
Oh, later in the rap, Vanilla does exactly that! TWICE!!!!
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I like Jeeps. Not sure I'd call them "sporty" but they're fun. My best friend in high school had a CJ5 Renegade, we spent a lot of time around the lake in that thing.
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you think this is attractive, but have a problem with the C8 Corvette???
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/1987_volkswagen_scirocco_16v_1557703337e7dff9f98764da3FB17273-4EBA-474F-A56D-5C21916CA958-e1560209843323-940x625.jpeg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yZT3hyhao-o/maxresdefault.jpg)
Hers was the "pre-facelift" model. A sea-blue version of this. Which is better IMO than the later version with the rectangular headlights.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/VW_Scirocco_1973.jpg)
I think that's a better example of automotive styling than the C8 Corvette.
It doesn't look faster, or more aggressive, or more eye-catching. But, IMO, it's a better job of styling for a 4-seat hatchback with somewhat sporty capabilities than the C8 Corvette is for a super-high-performance 2-seater.
But, as I've said elsewhere, we live in an ugly age.
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I think the rigidity today is about the same, even convertibles are pretty rigid now (not as).
The Cd is not as low as for a sedan.
This is somewhat akin to the length of a ship and it's top speed.
If the rigidity is the same, the weight is probably greater.
As I understand your reference to a ship, it's the longer the hull for a given beam, the faster. I don't understand how that relates to Cd on a hatchback vs. a coupe.
Interestingly (or not), the Mustangs that won the Trans-Am championships in '66 and '67 were notchback coupes, not 2+2 fastbacks. Maybe they were lighter or more rigid--I don't know.
We've got the "C and D" combination everywhere you look on this thread.
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Car and Driver = C/D
Cincydawg = CD
Drag coefficient = Cd
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No doubt. I'm sure you'd agree, Vanilla Ice's classic rap song "Ice Ice Baby" would not have been the same without the iconic lines:
"Rollin'
In my Five Point Oh
With the the ragtop down
So my hair can blow"
Rolling in my 4 point 9 would not have cut it. Also doesn't rhyme with "blow" so there you have it.
Never heard of it.
But "nine" can work in a pinch.
It worked well for the Beach Boys in "409 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKKP_cZuk54)."
And for Ronny and the Daytonas in "Little GTO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSMosJqlWIY)."
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I bought a '30 Ford wagon and we call it a woody
(Surf City, here we come)
You know it's not very cherry, it's an oldie but a goody
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And she'll have fun fun fun 'til her daddy takes her T-bird away.
Which reminds me of another car I always liked:
(https://cdn.classicdigest.com/live/carimg/148901_149000/148970_41853a7019259c08.jpg)
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And she'll have fun fun fun 'til her daddy takes her T-bird away.
Which reminds me of another car I always liked:
[img width=500 height=280.98]https://cdn.classicdigest.com/live/carimg/148901_149000/148970_41853a7019259c08.jpg[/img]
Ay-yi-yi! I hate being reminded of how Ford threw away the 2-seater market.
You know who made the decision to change the T-Bird into a 4-seater?
Robert Strange McNamara, architect of our loss in Vietnam!
I always lead into JFK's and LBJ's escalation of the war with a little vignette about McNamara killing the 2-seat T-Bird.
It had a more powerful engine than the Corvette. It was faster than the Corvette. It was outselling the Corvette about 10 to 1. And McNamara killed it in favor of a semi-sporty, semi-personal semi-luxury car. Just as Corvette was getting good, McNamara turned the T-Bird into a fat boy.
Would you trust such a man to run a war?
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The T-Bird fiasco was just that no doubt.
A 1956 Corvette was considerably faster than a 1955 T-Bird though.
https://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/ (https://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/)
They don't have year to year comparisons.
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But I found this also:
http://www.superchevy.com/features/vemp-1110-1956-corvette-test (http://www.superchevy.com/features/vemp-1110-1956-corvette-test)
Yet when MT Editor Walt Woron put a '56 Vette and a T-bird through a head-to-head comparison for the magazine's June '56 issue, the balance was beginning to shift. In acceleration testing the two were in a dead heat: The Vette went from 0-60 mph in 11.6 seconds, the 'Bird 11.5; a tenth of a second also separated the two in the quarter-mile, with the Vette's 17.9-second pass just that much quicker than the Ford's 18.0.
Where Woron really noticed a difference was in the handling of the two. He called out the T-bird for leaning "considerably" through turns while the Corvette "...feels more like a sports car, with more steadiness and not as much apparent lean." And while both cars would oversteer when pushed hard enough, "it's easier to correct [the Corvette] than the T-bird." Woron did note that the dual quads feeding the Vette's V-8 "starved the engine on a hard left turn: the right bank gets its share, but not the left one." Right turns weren't quite as bad, he said. And he pointed out that the Corvettes that raced at Sebring had the same problem, "except that they starved out in either direction."
Woron wrote that the T-bird's ride "is definitely softer" than the Corvette's, with a tendency to "‘float' over dips and bumps, which is comfortable at low speeds and not as likable at higher speeds."
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I like 'em both.
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I like em both too
and ya don't hear me saying that about many Fords
but, obviously, the Vette was the superior automobile
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my favorite car song...........by Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen
Pulled out of San Pedro late one night
The moon and the stars was shinin' bright
We was drivin' up Grapevine Hill
Passing cars like they was standing still
(https://speednik.com/files/2013/03/hot_rod_lincoln_2.jpg)
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I think that the comparison I read may have been between '55 models. The Corvette had a 265 V-8 (it was Chevy's first year to have a V-8), while the T-Bird had a 292 "Y-block" V-8.
Only 700-some '55 Corvettes were made, as there were many unsold '54s, with straight-6s, left over. Meanwhile, Ford sold over 16,000 Thunderbirds. So a 23:1 sales advantage.
The Thunderbird was intended to compete with the Corvette in the marketplace, but it never placed the emphasis on all-round performance and handling that the Corvette began demonstrating starting in 1956.
To be fair to McNamara, the 4-seater '58 T-Bird outsold the 2-seater '57 model by a large margin. So, counting only dollars-and-cents, making the switch was a smart move. What the decision said about Ford Motor Company is a more subjective thing to assess.
But it's that same bean-counter mentality that McNamara took with him when he became JFK's SecDef, and with which he managed the war in Vietnam.
Sometimes cost-efficiency is not the most important thing. It doesn't matter how much money you saved by micro-management if you lose the war.
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my favorite car song...........by Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen
Pulled out of San Pedro late one night
The moon and the stars was shinin' bright
We was drivin' up Grapevine Hill
Passing cars like they was standing still
(https://speednik.com/files/2013/03/hot_rod_lincoln_2.jpg)
Did you know the story of "that hot rod race" at the start of Commander Cody's song?
"Hot Rod Race (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzKvUW9AP1E)."
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What about a Little Deuce Coupe?
(https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/17/91/41/66/ford-310.jpg)
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I think that the comparison I read may have been between '55 models. The Corvette had a 265 V-8 (it was Chevy's first year to have a V-8), while the T-Bird had a 292 "Y-block" V-8.
Only 700-some '55 Corvettes were made, as there were many unsold '54s, with straight-6s, left over. Meanwhile, Ford sold over 16,000 Thunderbirds. So a 23:1 sales advantage.
The Thunderbird was intended to compete with the Corvette in the marketplace, but it never placed the emphasis on all-round performance and handling that the Corvette began demonstrating starting in 1956.
To be fair to McNamara, the 4-seater '58 T-Bird outsold the 2-seater '57 model by a large margin. So, counting only dollars-and-cents, making the switch was a smart move. What the decision said about Ford Motor Company is a more subjective thing to assess.
But it's that same bean-counter mentality that McNamara took with him when he became JFK's SecDef, and with which he managed the war in Vietnam.
Sometimes cost-efficiency is not the most important thing. It doesn't matter how much money you saved by micro-management if you lose the war.
I think the difference is that there are some cars that shouldn't be subject to a dollars and cents optimization.
I'd venture to say that the Corvette is the flagship of the Chevrolet brand. It's the aspirational one. It's the one that people put posters up on their walls.
Very few people actually BUY one, of course. It's a 2-seater. It's expensive (not compared to some other supercars). It's impractical.
The Camaro is the accessible one, that has 4 seats, and may not exactly be a truly "practical" car, but it's moreso than a Corvette.
If Ford had kept the Thunderbird as the aspirational one and the Mustang as the accessible one, maybe the Thunderbird would still be around. But they went in the direction of higher sales and killed the brand.
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Did you know the story of "that hot rod race" at the start of Commander Cody's song?
"Hot Rod Race (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzKvUW9AP1E)."
yes sir!
this is actually my favorite version - a bit more edge to the guitar
Hot Rod Lincoln - PAT TRAVERS - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM0weRWS6EA)
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yes sir!
this is actually my favorite version - a bit more edge to the guitar
Hot Rod Lincoln - PAT TRAVERS - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM0weRWS6EA)
Are you familiar with the 1955 original by Charlie Ryan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcCj4ogE-m8)?
Per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge:
"Hot Rod Lincoln" is a song by American singer-songwriter Charlie Ryan, first released in 1955. It was written as an answer song to Arkie Shibley's 1950 hit "Hot Rod Race" which describes a race in San Pedro, Los Angeles between two hot rod cars, a Ford and a Mercury, which stay neck-and-neck until both are overtaken by "a kid in a hopped-up Model A". "Hot Rod Lincoln" is sung from the perspective of this third driver, whose own hot rod is a Ford Model A body with a Lincoln V8, overdrive, a four-barrel carburetor, 4:11 gear ratio, and safety tubes.
Ryan's original rockabilly version of the song was released in 1955 through Souvenir Records under the artist name Charley Ryan and the Livingston Bros.[1] A second version was released in 1959 through Four Star Records, credited to Charlie Ryan and the Timberline Riders.[2] Ryan based the description of the eponymous car on his own hot rod, built from a 1948 12-cylinder Lincoln chassis shortened two feet, with a 1930 Ford Model A body fitted to it.[citation needed] Ryan raced his hot rod against a Cadillac sedan driven by a friend in Lewiston, Idaho, driving up the Spiral Highway (former U.S. Route 95 in Idaho) to the top of Lewiston Hill; he incorporated elements from this race in his lyrics to "Hot Rod Lincoln", but changed the setting to Grapevine Hill (a long, nearly straight grade up Grapevine Canyon to Tejon Pass, near the town of Gorman, California) to fit it within the narrative of "Hot Rod Race".
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As per the $$ and cents comments, I have read that GM is losing a lot on any Corvette sold for base price of $60,000, which is believable. Of course, they won't make many models with no upgrades as a result. They likely make very little even on high optioned models. I can't believe they make any money on the Z06 or ZR1 versions worth counting. These are image/marketing vehicles, and a test bed for technology.
Quite a bit of Corvette tech is in Cadillacs and Camaros, including the MHD shocks for example.
The racing programs obviously are of this ilk, it makes little rational sense to have Cadillac racing cars, but they have them.
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An Allard J2 with a Cadillac engine finished 3rd at Le Mans in 1950.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/bf/1e/54bf1e390684cb70bf991350ae2ae827.jpg)
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Why did the Mustang and Thunderbird get so hideous in the 80s?
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It wasn't just those two cars. The 1980s were the decade in which American carmakers hit the bottom and came out pretty good at the end.
Interestingly, both the Mustang and the Thunderbird of the '80s were based on the Fox platform.
In 1989, the Thunderbird emerged as a completely redesigned Thunderbird. It has independent rear suspension, a supercharged and intercooled V6, and was in total a significantly better and better-looking car. By 1994 it had the 4.6L version of the new modular V-8. But the market for this type of car was shrinking, and in 1997 Ford discontinued the T-Bird.
The Mustang--which IMO did not get hideous during the '80s, just old--did not get a new platform until 1994, when it went from the Fox platform to a modified Fox called SN-95. It got an all-new, much-smoother, much-more-reminiscent-of-earlier-Mustangs body. No more hatchback. No more notchback coupe. Just a fastback and a convertible. After I think 1 year, the old 302/5.0 pushrod V-8 was replaced by the 4.6L modular engine. This was the basic design of what would grow into the Coyote in 5-liter size.
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Mustang was fine in the 80s. Thunderbird was, well, this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/1982_Ford_Thunderbird_Town_Landau_fL.jpg)
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Car makers look for some niche they can lock up for a while for profit. The battle today is in the SUV/truck space, regular cars are almost irrelevant to domestic producers.
Ford and GM say they are getting out of the "car" business (except Mustang for Ford and one or two models for GM), and GM says they are going fast into EVs with Cadillac, which I find ... interesting. Cadillac has tried to change their image over the past 20 years but still relies on SUVs for profits, the Escallades still sell like hot cakes.
Then Caddy develops this interesting new engine called a Blackwing and then barely uses it because it won't fit in their new models, but they will call their CT5-V the Blackwing" while it uses the Corvette engine. Weird to me.
I have read varying figures on how much electricity we'd need if all out cars were EVs, it may depend on whether you count trucks and semis, but some figures are large, like 30% more. So, as one tries to reduce coal/NG usage, you also may need large amounts of additional power.
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I remain surprised that there's not more of a market for a hybrid gas/electric for pickups and SUVs. I believe it would be a great combination for me, personally, with respect to performance and towing. I also think there'd be some considerable application in commercial truck fleets.
Perhaps it's just too expensive? Or perhaps there's just not enough reduction in emissions/fuel consumption to make it worth it? Or total cost of ownership is too high even beyond the initial price challenges?
I know GM attempted this market in the mid/late 2000s with a hybrid Tahoe/Yukon, and it didn't catch on. I wonder if pickups might have been a better vehicle for the attempt, though? Maybe not.
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Yeah, and hybrids with tuned small Diesels would be ideal one would think. A Diesel can be designed to run efficiently at one RPM, say 2500, to turn a generator. I suspect truck buyers think this is "unmanly". We might see a "mild hybrid" soonish where the battery power is used only in hard acceleration.
The other neat trick not used is regen braking. That allows your brake pads to last a long time, and it could replace the alternator, at least, even if there is no battery pack to turn anything later. Trucks do a lot of braking around town that just generates heat.
This would work well for delivery vans as well, but they all seem to be gas powered today. Think of the little post office truck thing that constantly stops and starts up.
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I have read varying figures on how much electricity we'd need if all out cars were EVs, it may depend on whether you count trucks and semis, but some figures are large, like 30% more. So, as one tries to reduce coal/NG usage, you also may need large amounts of additional power.
Part of this, though, is when the charging occurs. A "typical" EV owner will charge overnight at their residence, which is usually when business power demands would be lessened and usually when the electric load of air conditioners is lowest.
And the "holy grail" of the EV/electrification industry is a home with solar panels, a big battery pack in the garage for energy storage, and an EV. You charge up your big battery packs all day from sunlight (using some energy for your A/C of course) instead of selling excess back to the grid, and then that stored energy recharges your car overnight. You can survive almost entirely on clean and free power from the sun.
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That Holy Grail may be a ways off due to cost. Most home owners don't have the capital to do much to upgrade their house, even basic things like more insulation, or they spend the available funds on cruises. I last read that only 1 house in 200 in the US has any level of PV cells today. I would think in Arizona it's almost a no brainer, but even there the level of HH PVs is not high at all.
Maybe this starts to be a factor by 2050, maybe. Our HOA looked at putting PVs on our roof and the equation was nowhere near sensible. We have a pretty large roof that is above the tree line. We don't even have EV charging stations in the garage, which has cost some sales of homes, but we rarely have a unit on the market even now.
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Are you familiar with the 1955 original by Charlie Ryan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcCj4ogE-m8)?
yes sir
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Mustang was fine in the 80s. Thunderbird was, well, this:
I don't think this was fine.............but, it was better than the T-Bird
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/1983_ford_mustang_gt_5-0_15762761595e8f93aad47a19eIMG_2908-940x626.jpg)
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I don't think this was fine.............but, it was better than the T-Bird
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/1983_ford_mustang_gt_5-0_15762761595e8f93aad47a19eIMG_2908-940x626.jpg)
I like it and think it looks pretty good. Not as good as the 60s models, obviously. But way better than the 73 "Grande" that I posted up earlier.
I preferred and owned the convertible of course, which they didn't make until 1983, for the first time since 1973.
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Obviously the Mustang II was atrocious.
However, I might be in the minority in that I can't stand the look of the Fox body Mustang. Anything between the 2nd-gen and 1994 I don't like.
But the best-looking Mustangs in my opinion are the 1st-gen and the 5th-gen retro.
4th-gen and 6th-gen are okay, but nothing like the original and the throwback.
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Obviously the Mustang II was atrocious.
However, I might be in the minority in that I can't stand the look of the Fox body Mustang. Anything between the 2nd-gen and 1994 I don't like.
But the best-looking Mustangs in my opinion are the 1st-gen and the 5th-gen retro.
4th-gen and 6th-gen are okay, but nothing like the original and the throwback.
I don't know if you're "in the minority" but there are plenty of people that liked, and like, the Fox body. The Mustang Clubs certainly classify it as a legitimate Mustang, which they don't for the Mustang II. And I like it far, FAR more than, for example, the '73 Grande which I find to be pretty hideous and only one small step up from the Mustang II.
I also don't like the '94 Mustang. Hood-to-nose is too sloped and pointed, something weird going on with the c-pillar that I never liked, looks way too "pinched" from the front. I'll take the Fox body over that generation as well.
I do love the 2005 Mustang though, certainly due to its true throwback look.
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I remain surprised that there's not more of a market for a hybrid gas/electric for pickups and SUVs. I believe it would be a great combination for me, personally, with respect to performance and towing. I also think there'd be some considerable application in commercial truck fleets.
Perhaps it's just too expensive? Or perhaps there's just not enough reduction in emissions/fuel consumption to make it worth it? Or total cost of ownership is too high even beyond the initial price challenges?
I know GM attempted this market in the mid/late 2000s with a hybrid Tahoe/Yukon, and it didn't catch on. I wonder if pickups might have been a better vehicle for the attempt, though? Maybe not.
Don't mess with my truck. ;)
I drive an F-250 Diesel with an extended cab and full size bed. Living in farm country, it is almost mandatory to have something that will get around in the winter as they usually plow our road about a week after a big snowfall. Also, I occasionally pull a 35ft camper, so the extra torque and truck weight is nice.
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Don't mess with my truck. ;)
I drive an F-250 Diesel with an extended cab and full size bed. Living in farm country, it is almost mandatory to have something that will get around in the winter as they usually plow our road about a week after a big snowfall. Also, I occasionally pull a 35ft camper, so the extra torque and truck weight is nice.
I'm certainly not suggesting get RID of the F250. I just think there's a place for a hybrid in the F150 and F250 space.
The electric motor would be fantastic for torque for towing, by the way, which is why I'm surprised it's not already being done.
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Imagine an F-250 with say a 3.0 L in line turbodiesel PLUS electric motors and batteries with a full on torque rating of say 700 ft-lbs. That's the concept here. And that torque would be from almost any RPM. The Diesel would be used solely to charge the batteries as needed, coupled with regen braking. You could probably design around a 2,0 L Diesel.
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Not diesel but this is the way the current generation of Formula 1 cars operates. They're turbocharged hybrids with regenerative/recuperative braking.
They're the fastest F1 cars ever, just slaughtering all former track records. Sadly, they don't sound near as great as the old V10s.
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Regen braking is a very good idea that I think could be on every vehicle.
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https://www.automobilemag.com/news/ford-mustang-history-generations-models-specifications/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR0gXn3FPovYp8KzsRFzUI1HiB-tBTO2gKlCemVD4dX5hrQFLANgyOFQ-fQ (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/ford-mustang-history-generations-models-specifications/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR0gXn3FPovYp8KzsRFzUI1HiB-tBTO2gKlCemVD4dX5hrQFLANgyOFQ-fQ)
I have on occasion seen a Corvette in France and a Mustang or two. There is the occasional relatively new F150 etc.
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https://www.automobilemag.com/news/ford-mustang-history-generations-models-specifications/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR0gXn3FPovYp8KzsRFzUI1HiB-tBTO2gKlCemVD4dX5hrQFLANgyOFQ-fQ (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/ford-mustang-history-generations-models-specifications/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR0gXn3FPovYp8KzsRFzUI1HiB-tBTO2gKlCemVD4dX5hrQFLANgyOFQ-fQ)
I have on occasion seen a Corvette in France and a Mustang or two. There is the occasional relatively new F150 etc.
I've never been to France, but a newish American pickup is about the last thing I would expect to see.
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They are extremely rare, but I have seen 2 or 3. Roads in France as you might imagine are not conducive.
They have a lot of vans.
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Wouldn't the smaller Ford Ranger sell well there?
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Apparently not. There basically are no pickups, small or otherwise. The working folks use vans. Perhaps they view an open bed as ridiculous. Theft obviously is a serious problem in France. I've been on farms, no pickups, one sees one every week driving around, maybe, one a week or so. We were there for a month in Jan/Feb and I didn't see any. We drove around quite a bit, stayed in a small village about 60 miles outside Paris.
We were talking about how we were lucky not to have been there three weeks later. We returned Feb. 20.
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Apparently not. There basically are no pickups, small or otherwise. The working folks use vans. Perhaps they view an open bed as ridiculous. Theft obviously is a serious problem in France. I've been on farms, no pickups, one sees one every week driving around, maybe, one a week or so. We were there for a month in Jan/Feb and I didn't see any. We drove around quite a bit, stayed in a small village about 60 miles outside Paris.
We were talking about how we were lucky not to have been there three weeks later. We returned Feb. 20.
Re the bolded part, why "obviously"?
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You're asking me if theft is not a major problem in France? I behave VERY differently in Paris than I do in Atlanta and have been subject of several ATTEMPTED robberies and scams. You don't leave stuff lying around in France. Obviously, in the major cities they prey on tourists, but our cousins and friends have been subject of robberies fairly often. And the police don't care, they often don't report the robbery because nothing would be done.
EVeryone we know there takes serious precautions to try and limit theft, the obvious one is building high walls around your house.
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So if you caught someone in the act of robbing you in your bastille, can you beat them up? Shoot them? Would you get in more trouble than the robber would?
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I live in a bad part of town. I have a fantasy of catching someone robbing my apartment. I lock the door behind me and we have a little "talk" before calling the cops. Thieves are mostly cowards and unless he has a gun, he's toast.
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You're asking me if theft is not a major problem in France? I behave VERY differently in Paris than I do in Atlanta and have been subject of several ATTEMPTED robberies and scams. You don't leave stuff lying around in France. Obviously, in the major cities they prey on tourists, but our cousins and friends have been subject of robberies fairly often. And the police don't care, they often don't report the robbery because nothing would be done.
EVeryone we know there takes serious precautions to try and limit theft, the obvious one is building high walls around your house.
Not exactly. My assumption would have been that pickpockets would be a bigger problem in France than in, say, Sioux City, Iowa. But I didn't realize that the problem is much deeper and more widespread, AND that it's just an acknowledged thing about which little-to-nothing is done.
"Obviously," I was mistaken.
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So if you caught someone in the act of robbing you in your bastille, can you beat them up? Shoot them? Would you get in more trouble than the robber would?
You are unlikely to possess a gun, though it is possible to do so. In the country, a lot of farmers will have a long gun. We had a large group come over - retirees from the company the wife worked for, about 60 of them, for a tour. We had about 20 over to our house and they were to a person astonished we had no walls around the yard. One guy said they would build walls to the sky if they could. I told him quietly "Well, here we just have guns." He nodded.
My good friend in France was beat up in his own garage by three bums. They took his watch and wallet and a few other items from the garage. He said reporting it to the police would be a waste of time. He went to the hospital for his injuries, didn't stay over night. He's 75. He left his garage door up briefly to walk into his fenced backyard and when he returned a few minutes later they were in the garage.
He lives in a small village about 60 miles east of Paris.
We usually stay at a friend's guest house in Fontainebleau. The house is surrounded by 30 foot walls and heavy doors that have a thick metal bar that reinforced the doors because they were forced one night, These are heavy metal doors. We don't go out without securing all of that, it's a bit of a pain at times.
This is in a good part of town.
The wife would never live in France and this is one reason for that.
I could tell a lot of stories, but basically I adopt a different mindset when we're there. You probably won't be hurt, but you can easily be robbed. You don't leave your wallet out at a restaurant, you don't let the credit card out of your sight ever, I carry a fake wallet in my hip pocket. I am very careful with how I place my camera. The wife has a special pocketbook for use in France.
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One very common tactic in France is to use a young girl, usually a "Rum" (gypsie), to get your attention. She may say "Do you speak English?" or "Did you drop this ring?".
Then another person robs you while you are distracted. No Parisian will stop you to ask directions or anything else, ever. You can tell the tourists from the US easily, they might ask a question. We try to avoid tourist areas.
I had one dude selling newspapers thrust a paper at me forcefully as I was walking, briskly, I went to throw it in the trash and he came up telling "MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!". I almost hit him. I just pushed the paper back on him. I thought it was like being in Vegas where they try and get you to take these cards.
Don't pull your wallet out on the street, ever. I'd carry some money in my pocket loose to pay for meals or whatever, or one credit card. I probably sound paranoid, but the wife made me that way.
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Sounds similar to New York City--with the "squeegee men"--just prior to Rudy Guliani's term as mayor.
Is there no law-and-order movement/political party in France?
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The French seem to accept it as how things are. There is of course Le Pen who blames immigrants for what ails you.
I should mention that France is a lovely country and I visit often.
There are some very good large French companies out there like Michelin and Saffron that are world class. French cars are OK now. Japanese and Korean cars are making inroads relative to 2007 when I first visited.
My friend was flight engineer on a Super Constellation when he did his military service. He said it was the best three engined aircraft in the world.
When he was 8, he had a German trooper point his Mauser at him and laugh in Brittany. He's had an interesting life, grew up poor on a farm and became President of a large aircraft engine company. He lived in Ohio for 6 years and travels a lot.
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The French seem to accept it as how things are. There is of course Le Pen who blames immigrants for what ails you.
I should mention that France is a lovely country and I visit often.
There are some very good large French companies out there like Michelin and Saffron that are world class. French cars are OK now. Japanese and Korean cars are making inroads relative to 2007 when I first visited.
My friend was flight engineer on a Super Constellation when he did his military service. He said it was the best three engined aircraft in the world.
When he was 8, he had a German trooper point his Mauser at him and laugh in Brittany. He's had an interesting life, grew up poor on a farm and became President of a large aircraft engine company. He lived in Ohio for 6 years and travels a lot.
So Le Pen's message is get rid of the immigrants and--snap!--the real French will become law-abiders?
The remark about the Super Connie puzzles me a little. Was he saying that they had lots of engine failures, hence they flew a lot on three engines? Or that, if you're going to lose an engine, the Super Connie is the best airplane on which to have that happen?
IIRC, the Super Connie had a bazillion-cylinder turbo-compound engine set up like the B-50 and KC-97.
EDIT: The Super Constellation was powered by four turbo-compounded 18-cylinder Wright R-3350 Duplex-Cyclones.
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(https://i.imgur.com/hSk3m2n.png)
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Is that a Bentley emblem above the grille?
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(https://i.imgur.com/hEKWs5K.png)
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/89/27/08/892708ce29f06a9efe7d9cc9fe0d030a.jpg)
I love all versions of the Lockheed Constellation, the most beautiful piston-engined airliner ever. This is an Air France Super Constellation.
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He liked the plane, but said it almost never completed a mission without an engine out.
Hence, his comment. They basically flew figure 8s over the Atlantic "looking" for Soviet subs, never found any.
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The demise of the station wagon is interesting, to me. Very practical vehicles Some variants could perform like a sports car. But, folks think they look dowdy and they are not stylish (whatever that means). The minivan is also a dying breed despite their practicality. Folks desire style over function even with a conveyance meant to be functional. Station wagons are even becoming rare in Europe.
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Is that a Bentley emblem above the grille?
Looks Like a Viper
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https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bentley-sportscar-concept-to-debut-in-paris-48811.html (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bentley-sportscar-concept-to-debut-in-paris-48811.html)
Bentley concept car, but the emblem resembles that of Genesis the second photo in that series.
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The demise of the station wagon is interesting, to me. Very practical vehicles Some variants could perform like a sports car. But, folks think they look dowdy and they are not stylish (whatever that means). The minivan is also a dying breed despite their practicality. Folks desire style over function even with a conveyance meant to be functional. Station wagons are even becoming rare in Europe.
SUVs serve the same function as estate wagons for many families, but I am surprised at the decrease in the minivan. Most of my friends had them when their families hit 2 kids or more, but folks younger than me don't seem to be buying them much at all.
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SUVs are much less efficient and offer less interior room than a comparable station wagon. Minivans are even more practical.
Compare the gas mileage and interior volume of a minivan with any comparable SUV of equal price. The only advantage of some SUVs is they can tow.
Well, some can off road better, if that ever is tried.
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Bear in mind that most "SUVs" now aren't SUVs. The original SUVs were big people-carriers built on truck frames. Basically even some of the smaller ones were body-on-frame types like a Ford Ranger (Explorer). Basically they were ALL pickup trucks with a full body and 2-3 rows of seats instead of an open bed.
Now even the Explorer is a unibody, car-chassis, FWD platform. It's no longer what we always thought of as an SUV. It's a crossover (SUV styling, car platform).
The bulk of what we call SUVs today are just tall cars. Which is a good thing IMHO, because it solves many of the issues that made SUVs impractical for most drivers (poor fuel economy, high weight, bumpy truck suspension, etc).
Which is exactly the route that "van" to "minivan" took--vans used to be based on truck chassis with big slab sides, and someone got the idea that if we put a van body on a car chassis, it means we don't need RWD, it'll drive more nicely, it'll have TONS of people/cargo room but be docile enough for a housewife to drive her offspring around without breaking the bank on gas.
I think the minivan is still a FAR more functional and practical auto than most crossovers, but it's not like the difference is the same as when SUVs first really took off. Most crossovers now are basically minivans with doors that open OUT rather than slide backwards.
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Yeah, but that ride height and heaviness makes for poor fuel economy, and the styling makes for comparatively poor interior volume.
I had a Honda CRV for a while, manual 5 speed. It would get 25 mpg highway on a good day. The ride height is one factor in that, and it had AWD which is another.
I know the common SUVs now are just raised cars, but they remain heavy and inefficient. I really liked the sliding doors when I had minivans because the kids wouldn't slam the door into the car next to us when they got out.
If you need to tow, get an SUV. If you really want to off road, get an SUV. If you to avoid looking uncool, get an SUV.
I was happy with the minivan except for how it drove.
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SUVs are much less efficient and offer less interior room than a comparable station wagon. Minivans are even more practical.
Compare the gas mileage and interior volume of a minivan with any comparable SUV of equal price. The only advantage of some SUVs is they can tow.
Well, some can off road better, if that ever is tried.
I don't think many Americans care about "efficiency" in their cars, hence the explosion of SUVs in the first place. And it's possible that a station wagon offers more interior room in some cases, but it certainly doesn't offer more height in the cargo area compared to the rear of a medium or large SUV, so what you're loading affects that equation. And as you mention, SUVs can tow, which is the main reason I have one, although I doubt the majority of people that own them use that feature.
People want what they want and they like what they like. Railing against them for that, doesn't make much sense, but there you have it.
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I'm not railing against people for making what I consider to be illogical choices because of style. We all do that. I am commenting on how humans often are illogical and put form above function.
A lot of people with F250s just use them to drive to the country club and maybe haul something once a year.
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Honestly, I prefer towing with an SUV over a pickup. For longer trips, I like having all of our gear inside the vehicle rather than in the bed of the truck. Once we reach our camping destination, if we venture out from home base, again I prefer to have the gear inside the vehicle rather than in the bed.
And on a slick boat ramp, I'll take the better rear traction of a 4x4 SUV, over the lesser rear traction of a 4x4 pickup. You can of course load extra weight into the back of the pickup, but that's an extra step that's unnecessary with an SUV. Tire choice makes a difference here too, though. Many pickups are rigged with more off-road style tires, which have less grip on the wet ramp, while SUV tend to have more car-like tires, which also provide better grip in the wet.
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I see the new trucks have a lot of new towing features that look appealing to me, I imagine the comparable SUVs have them too.
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The first car I can remember my mom having, was this:
[img width=500 height=280.966]http://topclassiccarsforsale.com/uploads/photoalbum/1976-impala-station-wagon-3.jpg[/img]
(https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/PQEWy/s1/chevrolet-impala-wagon.jpg)
Later, we traded in for this:
(https://images1.americanlisted.com/nlarge/1979-chevrolet-caprice-classic-8-passenger-station-wagon-americanlisted_29881025.jpg)
Never really thought about it, but I guess my mom liked blue cars.
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A funny thing about listening to pilots over the radio is "we" try and sound like Chuck Yeager. The Yankees sound funny trying. We all think we COULD be Chuck in our Walter Mitty dreams.
I think a lot of folks with pickup trucks think they are driving Big Rigs when they climb up in them, which is why they want lift if they can even though they never off road.
I bet CWSooner sounded like Yeager when he was flying helos.
Roger that.
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(https://i.imgur.com/3YjsL4W.png)
This is the first car I can remember being in back in the day. No seat belts. Two speed transmission and 283 CID engine (I think). And it was red and white on top.
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If station wagons still looked like that, I might have wanted to own one. :)
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The first car I remember being in was a 1948 Hudson we had in Okinawa, 1957-60.
(https://www.collectorcarads.com/Picture1/1_3063.jpg)
That's not our car, but it was green. It was a beater that had been passed down from one Air Force guy to the next. It had a hole the size of a quarter in the back floorboard, and I would watch the road go by.
When we got back to the States, we got one of these.
[img width=500 height=341.989]https://live.staticflickr.com/2818/9349143882_05dd0d4132_b.jpg[/img]
Aquamarine and Oyster White ours was.
4 doors, seated 9 (the rear 3 faced backward), V-8, A/C, tinted glass, pushbutton transmission, and a speedo that was like a ribbon that advanced left to right by filling up one little segment--bottom to top--at a time. I don't remember seatbelts.
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(https://i.imgur.com/RPgC8My.png)
This is like the second car I can recall. My dad had seat belts installed at Sears. We had to wear them. We lived in Augusta, GA and it had no AC. The engine was the 307 and the transmission again was the Powerglide. Other transmissions had something called "passing gear". This would be easy to work on these days.
If I still had the tools. I had friends who had Impalas and I was envious, this was just the Bel Air, sans Air.
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My dad is a car guy, but he's also a guy who didn't have a lot of spare time or money when we were kids. My parents' first car with air conditioning was a 1995 Ford Explorer (their first new car since 1979). I was a junior in college when they bought it.
My first car as a kid was a '71 or '72 VW Microbus. I remember (as a five year old) shopping for our brand new 1979 Microbus. It had a 2.0 liter, air cooled engine, and it struggled getting up hills in the Sierra (not as much as the older one did, though). Right around that time (just after) both the Chrysler minivan and the Jeep Cherokee got very popular. Of course, ten years later, the SUV began taking over. My dad bought a 1950 GMC 150 (3/4 ton) pickup in the early 80s. That was the car I learned to drive on. You started it in 2nd gear because 1st was too low for any practical application on roads. 228 straight six, I think. Max speed: 56 MPH, and that was with a lot of lead time. Brakes and steering were horrible. Had to use a starter pedal to get her running. The cab had a rust hole on the passenger side, so you could watch the road go by. It still does, and you still can. Dad put seat belts in sometime in the late 80s. He upgraded to a 12V system about 15 years ago, and I think he had the brakes upgraded, too. As he nears his retirement (should have retired a while back, but he loves his job), he wants to finally really restore it, but most body shops want nothing to do with the cab. The engine serial number matches the frame, so it has that going for it as restorations go.
Right around when I was learning to drive, my grandfather gave my parents his 1973 Dodge Dart 2-door Swinger. When he bought it, they were only available in automatic, which--to him--was impractical, so he had a three speed manual installed, with a Hurst floor shifter. With the 225 slant six it wasn't speedy, but it had decent torque in the 40-60 range, and it was fun to slam the shifter around. Max speed somewhere around 105 (I had it there once, briefly, on an interstate, and in that car it terrified me, so it didn't last long, and that was as a teenager! I had an Acura up over 115 once around the same time and relatively speaking, it was smooth as glass). It had lap belts in front, and a shoulder strap you could connect (and should) from above the doors.
The Dart developed some cooling issues, and during one summer whenever I drove it to Sacramento, I would have to nurse it at about 55-60 MPG with the heater on full blast to keep the thing cool enough. Not a great way to drive in the Sacramento valley in the summer time, but normally when I was headed out there it was at night, so at least a little cooler. Pretty sure that turned out to be a blown head gasket. Dad and I also went to check out another GMC down near Bakersfield to see if it was worth buying and we blew a radiator hose south of King City (which is kind of the middle of almost nowhere). With no auto shops open Sunday morning, we duct taped that sucker, and it got us where we needed to go. The Dart and the Jimmy were great cars to learn on, among other things because they were so easy to work on, and thus understand how cars work.
Mom and dad were going to give me the Dodge when I graduated college, and my buddy and I were thinking seriously about how we would get a 318 V8 into it. Alas, the week before I graduated, mom was in a wreck and the car was totaled (she was ok, though pretty shaken up). Instead, I bought a 1990 Honda Accord 4-door, which was a much better car, but no where near as much fun (it did have AC, though).
My favorite car (that I've owned) to date was my Honda Odyssey (2006). Owned it for 13 years. Did its job remarkably well. Not at all cool, but I've moved on to wanting my car to do its job and nothing really more than that. And my personal leanings being what they are, the gas mileage is important to me. For a while I thought our replacement would be a Toyota 4-Runner, but in the end logic won out and we have an Accord Hybrid--another great car. Whenever we need a 4WD vehicle, we rent one (about once or twice a year). That works great, and saves us all kinds of money.
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The wife still talks fondly about her Austin Mini she had back in the day, when it was the real one, not the BMW. She also leased a nice 328i here but didn't keep it. I almost bought it from her.
My first car was a 1968 Chevy Nova 307 2 speed that my Dad had for a while. It was on its last legs with 55,000 miles. I had no idea how to maintain a car beyond taking it to a shop. It started shifting very oddly one day and I took it to where I usually got gas. The guy look at it and showed me a vacuum hose with a hole in it. He trimmed it and put it back on and I drove off, no charge.
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a decent sedan can have nearly as much cargo space as many smaller SUVs
the Chev Impala has almost 19 cu ft of space in the trunk, most SUV publish capacities that include the rear seat down or out.
the Impala can also lay the back seat down to the level of the trunk floor for plenty of space.
I think a sedan looks much better and handles much better than the SUVs on car frames.
as some of you know, I really dislike all the SUVs on the road and don't like the idea that vert few sedans are available
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I bet CWSooner sounded like Yeager when he was flying helos.
Roger that.
Duvall in Apocolypse Now "I love the smell of napalm in the morning"
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I've said it before... But I don't want a sporty car.
I am known for having a bit of a lead foot and an enjoyment of twisty roads. Anything I do with a sporty car on public roads is likely to cause me problems with the law.
I'd be all about a racetrack car though.
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(https://i.imgur.com/3YjsL4W.png)
This is the first car I can remember being in back in the day. No seat belts. Two speed transmission and 283 CID engine (I think). And it was red and white on top.
we had one of those whwn I was a we-lad.Is that a Ford?Plymouth? I don't recall
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I've said it before... But I don't want a sporty car.
I am known for having a bit of a lead foot and an enjoyment of twisty roads. Anything I do with a sporty car on public roads is likely to cause me problems with the law.
I'd be all about a racetrack car though.
It's possible you've found the wrong thread, then... ;)
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[img width=500 height=331.997]https://i.imgur.com/RPgC8My.png[/img]
What was the difference between the Bel Airs & Biscaynes?
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The first car I remember being in was a 1948 Hudson we had in Okinawa, 1957-60.
(https://www.collectorcarads.com/Picture1/1_3063.jpg)
Merged with Nash Metropolitan to become AMC.An old neighbor had 3 Hudsons,still has 2 of them
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What was the difference between the Bel Airs & Biscaynes?
Chevy offered three trim levels, Biscayne was the simplest/cheaper, Bel Air was in the middle, Impala at the top, with three brake lights. The Bel Air had some chrome pieces inside the Biscayne lacked and nicer seats. The rich kids had Impalas.
If you saw a Buick, it was a doctor driving it.
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Thanx,explains why my dad had all 3 at one tme or another.He worked for Chevrolet 32 yrs.Never really asked or knew
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we had one of those whwn I was a we-lad.Is that a Ford?Plymouth? I don't recall
looks like a chevy to me
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If it came with a 283, it was a Chevy.
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1959 Chevy Bel Air station wagon.
My Dad only bought Chevies, except for a 1961 Ford Falcon that he did not like at all.
He had back pain from the war and wanted automatics.
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my Father was a bit of a Ford guy since his first car was a Model A.
He did have a 60 chevy convertible that he spoke fondly of. I think that went away shorty after marriage.
The first car I remember was a Chevy Station wagon, probably early 60's. No A/C so when we went to Dallas to visit family in 69 or 70, we drove at night and my brother and I slept on a mattress in the back.
the cool car was a 64 Ford Galaxie 500XL
I helped him hand wash it almost every week in the driveway.
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/54/e8/55/54e85596682f80cd2572954033da4920--galaxie--ford-galaxie.jpg)
had the 3-speed automatic on the floor with the center console and bucket seats. I always sat on the center console. 289 V8
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It's possible you've found the wrong thread, then... ;)
Oh, I *like* sporty cars... I'm just a bit of an adrenaline junkie, so I find it a little dangerous to own one :72:
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I'm not railing against people for making what I consider to be illogical choices because of style. We all do that. I am commenting on how humans often are illogical and put form above function.
A lot of people with F250s just use them to drive to the country club and maybe haul something once a year.
I see what you did there. ~??? Not sure you directed this at me, but I often have some sort of trailer or camper hooked to my F250, otherwise it is just sitting in the driveway. Just this weekend I was hauling a tractor for a friend and some ladders to use to replace a downspout lost in a windstorm last week.
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I see what you did there. ~??? Not sure you directed this at me, but I often have some sort of trailer or camper hooked to my F250, otherwise it is just sitting in the driveway. Just this weekend I was hauling a tractor for a friend and some ladders to use to replace a downspout lost in a windstorm last week.
I didn't read that as being directed at you.
But I agree with what he's saying. I live in a reasonably well-off neighborhood, the kind with multiple HOA parks and swimming pools, and a couple of golf courses with clubhouses. There are a LOT of F250s, that I'm pretty sure don't get driven further than the clubhouse or the grocery store. I don't have a problem with it, folks should drive what they like.
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Heh, but it's true what I say. The last time I looked inside an F250, I thought it was more like a Mercedes. It had everything inside, super deluxe. If I owned it, I would not let a muddy boot of pile of horse S get anywhere near it, far too pretty. I'd have it detailed every month at least. And drive it to the club sounding like Chuck Yeager or Clint Eastwood.
Ah reckon so.
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I think I should be in charge of telling people what they like.
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Anyway, my dad's first car was this, my grandpa was a wheeler-dealer between Mexico and the southwestern US, and somehow ended up with this car in trade:
(https://0.cdn.autotraderspecialty.com/1956-Buick-Century-american-classics--Car-100846180-a67cd5456841602a693264eb15cfdcdc.jpg?w=735&h=551&r=pad&c=%23f5f5f5)
It sat out in the backyard of their house in Alpine, TX as recently as the late 90s, but it was totally rusted out by then.
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On occasion we all see some pickup from 1975 or so, full sized, and will be astonished how small they are.
(https://i.imgur.com/g76Yqq2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/TIwf6RF.png)
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True, although it's not necessarily fair to compare a modern crewcab to an older standard cab. They were less common back then, but crewcabs have been around for a while.
I always dreamed of buying one of these, to tow my 1963 Airstream:
(https://www.cardealfinder.com/files/08-2019/ad74686/1963-international-harvester-pickup-travelette-red-111330866_large.jpg)
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But not all pickups are like that. A lot of the "work" pickups I see look more like this one:
(https://i.imgur.com/o8V4ADe.png)
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The wheels on the news ones seem a lot larger in diameter.
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One of these would have made for a sweet tow vehicle as well:
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/BaT-Travelall-1-620x413.jpg)
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Back in the day, cars had 13" or 14" wheels for the most part, trucks as well I think. The wife's Caddy had 19" rims (which were problematic). The GTI has 18".
The car mags did a test with a BMW equipped with rims 17" to 22". The 17" version was notably faster, the 18" version had the best skidpad numbers.
Same tire brand and type.
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I have the 1500 Silverado
it doesn't get used as a "truck" much.
I wish I had gone with the big block V8 now with better gas prices - don't really nned more than the 300+ hp 5.3
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True, although it's not necessarily fair to compare a modern crewcab to an older standard cab. They were less common back then, but crewcabs have been around for a while.
I always dreamed of buying one of these, to tow my 1963 Airstream:
(https://www.cardealfinder.com/files/08-2019/ad74686/1963-international-harvester-pickup-travelette-red-111330866_large.jpg)
now that's a gas hog - no lockouts
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now that's a gas hog - no lockouts
Do not care even one tiny bit. :)
It would look SO choice, towing the vintage Airstream.
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My daughter in Columbus for some reason bought a used 1500 a few years back. I drove it a few times and was impressed. It drove pretty nicely. She sold it, she had no need for it, I have no clue why she bought it anyway. She now drives my 2012 Chevy Sonic LTZ with a 6 speed.
That Sonic had 17" rims on it. Amazing.
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Do not care even one tiny bit. :)
It would look SO choice, towing the vintage Airstream.
I notice how some folks around here are really interested in how they LOOK to other people they don't know. Maybe that is compensation?
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I notice how some folks around here are really interested in how they LOOK to other people they don't know. Maybe that is compensation?
Don't know, couldn't tell you, since I don't give a rat's ass about how it would look to someone else, only myself.
Maybe you should ask yourself, though, why you continue to worry about the size of other men's penises?
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Do not care even one tiny bit. :)
It would look SO choice, towing the vintage Airstream.
cherry was the term that was used around here before choice
I like both terms and hope to own a cherry or choice sporty car sometime
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the size of other men's hands sounds so much better
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cherry was the term that was used around here before choice
I like both terms and hope to own a cherry or choice sporty car sometime
Better look out, saying things like that, or Cincy will start thinking about your pecker too, and not just mine!
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I have no clue why anyone thinks I'm talking about male body parts here.
That clearly was not my meaning at all.
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Most car purchases include a hefty consideration paid to how the thing looks--and even more so, what image it presents. In my case, practical--not flashy--is important to me. Heck, for bike people, the kind of bike you buy is very similar: technologically the differences are so slight that image plays a huge role.
I think anytime we plunk down a big chunk of change, our vanity plays a big role. And in some way, why shouldn't it? If I'm going to spend a bunch of money, I want to like the way it makes me feel.
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Yeah, I was musing about restaurant food and how nice it can look and the impact that has on perceptions - "plating".
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I have no clue why anyone thinks I'm talking about male body parts here.
That clearly was not my meaning at all.
perhaps not as clearly as you intended
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Oldsmobile was meant to be GM's "technology and advancements" division back when it was still a brand. In 1987, it made good on that title with the record-setting Aerotechs.
The Aerotechs, the brainchild of former GM chief engineer Ed Welburn, were a pair of wild testbed concepts for the company's then-new Quad-4 inline-four engine. With shapes designed to cut through the air, a lightweight chassis, and over 900 horsepower on tap, they were capable enough to set some serious top speed numbers.
Olds Aerotech | Retro Review - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=36&v=ZDFmhPZOGjI&feature=emb_logo)
sporty!
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Never knew that about Olds--the GM brands were always the hardest for me to keep track of. And not being a GM family ('50 GMC notwithstanding), I probably wasn't paying as much attention.
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Brand imaging did change over time of course.
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Better look out, saying things like that, or Cincy will start thinking about you're a pecker too, and not just me!
FIFY
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I notice how some folks around here are really interested in how they LOOK to other people they don't know.
I knew that '92 VW I bought in Jan would impress you
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True, although it's not necessarily fair to compare a modern crewcab to an older standard cab. They were less common back then, but crewcabs have been around for a while.
I always dreamed of buying one of these, to tow my 1963 Airstream:
was that an International?
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was that an International?
Yes.
Both the crewcab pickup, and the vintage "SUV" I posted, were 1963 International Harvester models.
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[img width=500 height=331.989]https://i.imgur.com/RPgC8My.png[/img]
This is like the second car I can recall. My dad had seat belts installed at Sears. We had to wear them. We lived in Augusta, GA and it had no AC. The engine was the 307 and the transmission again was the Powerglide. Other transmissions had something called "passing gear". This would be easy to work on these days.
If I still had the tools. I had friends who had Impalas and I was envious, this was just the Bel Air, sans Air.
I think you mentioned the Chevy 307 earlier. From a "sporty" point of view, the 307 was the least favorable of the Chevy small-block V-8s of that generation. It was a 283 block (3.875" bore) with a 327 crank. So--effectively--a stroked 283.
The high-performance way of combining the best of the 283 (short stroke) and the 327 (4.0" bore) was the 302 Z/28 engine. It was a 327 block with a 283 crank, so--depending on how you want to look at it--a bored-out 283 or a de-stroked 327. It had exactly the same bore/stroke combination as the Ford 302: 3"x4." So I guess it was a 4.9-liter engine too.
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. . . My dad bought a 1950 GMC 150 (3/4 ton) pickup in the early 80s. That was the car I learned to drive on. You started it in 2nd gear because 1st was too low for any practical application on roads. 228 straight six, I think. Max speed: 56 MPH, and that was with a lot of lead time. Brakes and steering were horrible. Had to use a starter pedal to get her running. The cab had a rust hole on the passenger side, so you could watch the road go by. It still does, and you still can. Dad put seat belts in sometime in the late 80s. He upgraded to a 12V system about 15 years ago, and I think he had the brakes upgraded, too. As he nears his retirement (should have retired a while back, but he loves his job), he wants to finally really restore it, but most body shops want nothing to do with the cab. The engine serial number matches the frame, so it has that going for it as restorations go. . . .
That sounds a lot like the truck I learned to drive on. It was ancient, and it was either a Chevy or a GMC. Straight-6, 3-on-the-tree shifter. Learned to use a clutch right from the start.
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Duvall in Apocolypse Now "I love the smell of napalm in the morning"
I started OCS right after Apocalypse Now came out.
I can draw a bit. On or about Day 1, I sketched Lt. Col. Kilgore standing with his hands on his hips on the back of a 3x5 index card, put a Huey in the background, and wrote the caption: "I love the smell of napalm in the morning!" Stuck it on our platoon bulletin board and there it stayed for the next 12 weeks until graduation.
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we had one of those whwn I was a we-lad.Is that a Ford?Plymouth? I don't recall
1959 Shivolay, MrNubbz.
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I don't like how modern trucks have such low ground clearance in front. Hell, the front of them are like 5 feet in height. When did trucks get so damn tall (and still, without the front ground clearance)?
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Pickups are much bigger these days, and it's not just that they're longer because of crew cabs. They're significantly taller and even a bit wider. I was stopped at a light last fall behind one Chevy pickup that was sitting beside another Chevy pickup. One looked like it was ca. 1980, and the other looked like it was from the last 5-10 years. The top of the bed on the new one was a foot higher than the bed on the older one.
I'll bet the average 1/2-ton pickup weighs 1000-1500 pounds more today than the average one from 40 years ago.
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The Chevy small block is rather legendary, still being used in a vastly modified form. I'm not sure it has anything in common with the old 350 etc.
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Pickups are much bigger these days, and it's not just that they're longer because of crew cabs. They're significantly taller and even a bit wider. I was stopped at a light last fall behind one Chevy pickup that was sitting beside another Chevy pickup. One looked like it was ca. 1980, and the other looked like it was from the last 5-10 years. The top of the bed on the new one was a foot higher than the bed on the older one.
I'll bet the average 1/2-ton pickup weighs 1000-1500 pounds more today than the average one from 40 years ago.
For sure.
The average 1/2-ton is also able to tow more than its counterpart from 4 decades ago, but with the added weight to the truck itself, I'm not sure its payload capacity has increased significantly or any at all.
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1959 Shivolay, MrNubbz.
HUH,what in the hell is that?HA!,nevermind I just had my 1st cup of coffee.Shivolay as where my dad worked 32 years - Bastage
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I think the wheel diameter has increased markedly, like from 14" standard to more like 20" or so, and the tires have not gone to low profile.
Yeah, the 1500 is 17" to 20". The tires are 265/70 17. In 1999, they were 255/70 16. I can't go back further, but I'd guess in 1970 they were something like 195/75 14.
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The ones on my F150 are 20s. I'd be fine with smaller, but that's just the way it came (I bought used).
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Yeah, they range 17" to 20" from the factory. I think that is one reason trucks today look so much larger than from 1970, in addition to BEING larger.
The old "half ton" terminology is still in use.
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The Chevy small block is rather legendary, still being used in a vastly modified form. I'm not sure it has anything in common with the old 350 etc.
Today's small-block Chevy engine doesn't have much parts interchangeability with the 265 introduced in 1955. The block casting is even different. But the 350 was definitely a member of the small-block family. It was a stroked 327.
The 302, 327, and 350 all had a 4" bore. The 302 had a 3" stroke, the 327 had a 3.25" stroke, and the 350 had a 3.48" stroke.
The bore/stroke combinations were very similar to the same/similar-sized Ford small block. The Ford 302 was 4"x3" and the 351 was 4"x3.5".
But they were a bit different the next size down. Ford's 289 was 4"x2.75", while Chevy's 283 was 3.875"x3".
The 1957 Chevy 283, when equipped with Rochester fuel injection in the Corvette, produced 283 hp, one of the first American production V-8s to do that.
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Personally, on a pickup I actually prefer the look of a smaller wheel and a tire with a little more sidewall. But I love the way it currently rides so I don't foresee ever buying new wheels for it.
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At the extreme today, on pickups that are meant to never drive off roads, you see something like 22" wheels with 35-series-or-lower tires, so it looks like there's just a strip of rubber about 1" thick around the enormous rim.
[img width=500 height=280.994]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cz8HiMRpI6k/maxresdefault.jpg[/img]
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Personally, on a pickup I actually prefer the look of a smaller wheel and a tire with a little more sidewall. But I love the way it currently rides so I don't foresee ever buying new wheels for it.
I'm with you on anything that's off-road capable. You want sidewall. On my Jeep I would never put big wheels and low-sidewall tires... It defeats the purpose. The Jeep is riding on 17s and I'd consider smaller, although I understand the minimum might be 15" or 16" to leave enough room for the brakes.
But on the Flex, it's riding on 20s with a relatively modest profile tire, and I MUCH prefer the look on the Flex with bigger wheels. It would look silly with 17s, much less anything smaller than that.
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At the extreme today, on pickups that are meant to never drive off roads, you see something like 22" wheels with 35-series-or-lower tires, so it looks like there's just a strip of rubber about 1" thick around the enormous rim.
[img width=500 height=280.987]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cz8HiMRpI6k/maxresdefault.jpg[/img]
I just threw up in my mouth a little...
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I just threw up in my mouth a little...
Heh!
It's even worse when the wheels have "spinners" on them. So you sit at a light and the giant pickupmobile next to you has its spinners turning and see it out of the corner of your eye and you think you must be moving forward or backward (depending on the direction of spin) because it looks like he's moving.
Maybe spinners have gone out of style, or maybe they've become illegal, because I haven't seen any in quite awhile.
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At the extreme today, on pickups that are meant to never drive off roads, you see something like 22" wheels with 35-series-or-lower tires, so it looks like there's just a strip of rubber about 1" thick around the enormous rim.
[img width=500 height=280.966]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cz8HiMRpI6k/maxresdefault.jpg[/img]
I just threw up in my mouth a little...
Yeah, that's a "look" that I don't get, and never will. But folks should drive what they like.
I'm with you on anything that's off-road capable. You want sidewall. On my Jeep I would never put big wheels and low-sidewall tires... It defeats the purpose. The Jeep is riding on 17s and I'd consider smaller, although I understand the minimum might be 15" or 16" to leave enough room for the brakes.
But on the Flex, it's riding on 20s with a relatively modest profile tire, and I MUCH prefer the look on the Flex with bigger wheels. It would look silly with 17s, much less anything smaller than that.
I will likely never seriously offroad in my pickup. I've driven it through some fairly sketchy sand with no issues, but I'm not much of a mudder. So the 20s work fine, and provide a great road experience with a very modest sidewall tire and not overly agressive tread pattern. I just like the look of a pickup with a smaller wheel and larger sidewall a little more, but like I said I'm not planning on changing anything.
This isn't my truck, but mine's exactly like this, everything stock from the factory.
(https://vimg.remorainc.com/xmq/1ftfw1eg8hfa64753/2017-ford-f150-platinum-4wd-supercrew-5-magnetic-metallic-0.jpg)
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Yeah, they range 17" to 20" from the factory. I think that is one reason trucks today look so much larger than from 1970, in addition to BEING larger.
The old "half ton" terminology is still in use.
(https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/J4ZRJ/s4/vin-matched-chevrolet-corvettes.jpg)
Corvettes are much larger than they started out
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(https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/J4ZRJ/s4/vin-matched-chevrolet-corvettes.jpg)
Corvettes are much larger than they started out
Yup. Lots of cars and vehicles are.
Nothing exceeds like excess! :)
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That sounds a lot like the truck I learned to drive on. It was ancient, and it was either a Chevy or a GMC. Straight-6, 3-on-the-tree shifter. Learned to use a clutch right from the start.
I had a very similar experience. We had a 3/4 ton Chevy (mid 70's, don't really remember), 292 Straight 6 with a 4 speed manual transmission. I learned to drive that truck when I was about 13. For a 6 cylinder, it had a lot of torque.
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I don't like how modern trucks have such low ground clearance in front. Hell, the front of them are like 5 feet in height. When did trucks get so damn tall (and still, without the front ground clearance)?
My F250 has plenty of ground clearance. It also sits pretty high. It barely clears the garage door when I pull it in to change the oil and rotate the tires (which I did this weekend, my back still hurts). I'm 6 2" and can barely reach over the fender to take the oil cap off. This truck has no modifications and sits just like it did when it left the factory. If they get much taller, I'll have to build a bigger garage to do service it, or get a smaller truck (I don't see that happening).
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(https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/J4ZRJ/s4/vin-matched-chevrolet-corvettes.jpg)
Corvettes are much larger than they started out
The '53 Corvette had a 102" wheelbase, total length of 167.3", was 69.8" wide, was 51.5" high, and weighed 2,886 pounds.
The 2020 Corvette has a 107.2" wheelbase, total length of 182.3", is 76.1" wide, is 48.6" high, and weighs 3,366 pounds.
Those figures are per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge. I have to say that the height measurements surprise me. The '53 looks significantly lower rather than almost 3" taller.
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We lost a sale on our house in Cincy because the man's truck didn't fit in our standard sized garage. They were prepared to pay full price on it two days after listing.
Then he measured and was 2 inches short on length.
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One nice comparison of growth is the Honda Accord (a nice vehicle IMHO) from it's early days to now. It was a subcompact back then.
I saw a new 911 when we were walking, I'm pretty sure it is a good bit larger today, wide in particular.
It's almost as if WE are larger or something.
That was a nice walk today, we strolled through the subdivision north of us, it's amazing how much new construction is going on in a 100 year old residential area.
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Cars have not just gotten larger on the outside, they are thicker and denser on the inside. The old Austin Healy "Bugeye" Sprite had an 80" wheelbase, length of 137.01", width of 52.99", and height of 47.2" with the top up.
Yet reasonably tall men--pushing 6 feet--could sit in it in relative comfort.
No way that would happen in a car that size today.
Was it CD who commented upthread about how today's Minis are much bigger than the original Minis?
The original 1959 Morris Mini-Minor--in "saloon" configuration--was even smaller in one dimension than the Bugeye Sprite--wheelbase of 80.2", length of 120.2", width of 55", height of 53". It weighed 1,279 pounds.
The smallest version of the BMW "Mini" has a 97" wheelbase, length of 142.8", width of 66.5", height of 55.9", and weighs 2,315 lbs.
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Yeah, the thickness of the doors and body panels in those old cars was scary really. And new cars are a lot more stiff which translates into better handling.
US car models started shrinking after the 1974 oil debacle and Japanese cars started expanding. I think the modern Civic is larger than the original Accord, I know it weighs more. But building a larger car hardly costs more than building a small car.
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Yup. Lots of cars and vehicles are.
Nothing exceeds like excess! :)
I blame the state of Texas for glamorizing bigger is better
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The '53 Corvette had a 102" wheelbase, total length of 167.3", was 69.8" wide, was 51.5" high, and weighed 2,886 pounds.
The 2020 Corvette has a 107.2" wheelbase, total length of 182.3", is 76.1" wide, is 48.6" high, and weighs 3,366 pounds.
Those figures are per the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge. I have to say that the height measurements surprise me. The '53 looks significantly lower rather than almost 3" taller.
looks can be deceiving, perhaps the bright white adds ten pounds to the cream color
the C8 looks much larger in all aspects in the pic - to me
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looks can be deceiving, perhaps the bright white adds ten pounds to the cream color
the C8 looks much larger in all aspects in the pic - to me
That not-quite white on the '53 was called "Polo White," which may be an indication of the target customer base.
The '53 and '54 Corvettes did not have V-8s in them. Not even a V-8 option, as Chevy didn't have a V-8 engine. So Chevy hot-rodded the 235 Straight-6 with 3 carbs and a hotter cam to reach the chest-thumping total of 150 hp. Chevy didn't have a manual transmission capable of coping with such power, so they put the good old Powerglide 2-speed automatic in the car.
Verrry sporty!
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https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15114087/1954-chevrolet-corvette/ (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15114087/1954-chevrolet-corvette/)
The Chevrolet Series D is an American automobile produced by Chevrolet between 1917 and 1918. Over 4,000 Series D cars were manufactured in the 1918 model year, and it was the first Chevrolet V8 car made. It was not until 1955 that Chevrolet made another V8.
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A 1918 Chevy V-8. Ya learn somethin' new every day!
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(https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/J4ZRJ/s4/vin-matched-chevrolet-corvettes.jpg)
Corvettes are much larger than they started out
I like the one on the left
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And ironically, a Corvette in WW II was the British name for basically a destroyer escort, which is a slower smaller version of a destroyer mostly slated for antisubmarine duty (but which on one occasion attacked a fleet including battleships). WW 2 destroyers could usually make 35 knots, and the DEs were good for 20 knots.
I think the competitor that drove the Corvette was the Jag XKE as the Vette often adopted features the Jag had a year or three later, like disc brakes and FI and IR differential etc. The early Vettes were more a lady's car, or for men who were confident in their inherent masculine nature.
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I like the one on the left
It probably is worth 3 or 4 or 10 of the one on the right.
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I blame the state of Texas for glamorizing bigger is better
Well the trux are bigger because as you know they have to be in Alaska.As for Texas - well it's cute :celebrate:
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Well the trux are bigger because as you know they have to be in Alaska.As for Texas - well it's cute :celebrate:
Texas isn't even cute. Ugly and horrible. No pretty women, booze is illegal, a green mist that turns you inside-out, and people steal your kidneys. So definitely don't move here.
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Texas isn't even cute. Ugly and horrible. No pretty women, booze is illegal, a green mist that turns you inside-out, and people steal your kidneys. So definitely don't move here.
I was going to come down but everyone's at the Beach
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I was going to come down but everyone's at the Beach
Good point, I'll add that to the list.
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(https://i.imgur.com/O7KJQcj.jpg)
This is a car I have liked and regretted its demise. If equipped with a standard turbo 4 and manual, it would be quite spiffy. It still looks contemporary (this is the 2009 model). There was a Pontiac version of it. And I fit in the thing, unlike a Miata.
I sort of hoped maybe Camaro would go this way. I suspect the Camaro "market" is not of this ilk, and it is slated to die soon also.
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Saturn Sky/Pontiac Solstice. One of my stepsons had a used one about the time he was graduating from OU. He thought it was "OK," but not much more than that.
They were a victim of GM's bankruptcy in 2009.
The Saturn and Pontiac nameplates both went into retirement.
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(https://i.imgur.com/O7KJQcj.jpg)
This is a car I have liked and regretted its demise. If equipped with a standard turbo 4 and manual, it would be quite spiffy. It still looks contemporary (this is the 2009 model). There was a Pontiac version of it. And I fit in the thing, unlike a Miata.
I sort of hoped maybe Camaro would go this way. I suspect the Camaro "market" is not of this ilk, and it is slated to die soon also.
Wasn't that thing FWD?
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Wasn't that thing FWD?
No.
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Not sure I ever even saw that Saturn version. I did see the Pontiac Solstice and thought it looked pretty cool, but I think I like the styling on the Saturn even better. Here's the Pontiac:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71JW-MFcDWL._UY560_.jpg)
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No.
In that case it's interesting. Apparently the turbo version put out 340 torques and 290 hp too... Which would be fun in that little package.
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My recollection is that the Sky/Solstice didn't drive especially sporty, at least not among the mass-released models. They looked good, but relied on too many pre-existing--and not sporty--GM parts and pieces to really perform as one would hope a car that looks like that should.
It's as though GM forgot any lessons learned from the Fiero.
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That Sky with a current 2.0 L turbo and 6 speed manual would be choice, I think. They could even have MHD shocks as an option perhaps.
Cadillac had a very different show car they called the "Ciel" a few years back.
Ciel is French for sky, hence our word "ceiling". Now you learned something new.
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A 1918 Chevy V-8. Ya learn somethin' new every day!
I blame the Spanish Flu
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Here's the first rear-engined car to run the Indy 500, the Cooper T54, which ran as high as 3rd and finished 9th.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Cooper-Climax_T54_%22The_Kimberly_Special%22_-_Flickr_-_andrewbasterfield.jpg/1280px-Cooper-Climax_T54_%22The_Kimberly_Special%22_-_Flickr_-_andrewbasterfield.jpg)
It looks tiny compared to both the prevailing-at-the-time Indy roadsters and to Indy cars of today. And how about those wheels and tires?
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the wheels may have been original, but not the tires
looks like a Cooper T84
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That Sky with a current 2.0 L turbo and 6 speed manual would be choice, I think. They could even have MHD shocks as an option perhaps.
Cadillac had a very different show car they called the "Ciel" a few years back.
Ciel is French for sky, hence our word "ceiling". Now you learned something new.
I remember as a kid reading in an old copy of Air Classics about the "Pou du Ciel" in an article of fantastic home-built/designed airplanes.
https://youtu.be/oiCuHpMEOCc (https://youtu.be/oiCuHpMEOCc)
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(https://i.imgur.com/Em78rru.png)
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the wheels may have been original, but not the tires
looks like a Cooper T84
Both look like they could have come off a WV Beetle.
I can see why you would say that it looks like a T84.
I don't know if Cooper ever got as high as "84."
Here's a T82. Used in Formula 2 and Formula Atlantic competition.
(https://www.oldracingcars.com/Images/ryder/CooperT82-Haines-Oulton2006-08-28-600x300.jpg)
And here's a T83, even smaller, used in Formula 3.
(https://racecarsdirect.com/content/UserImages/97931/532214.jpg?v=3)
I can't find anything higher than that.
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Silly Gendarmes!
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Right Hand Drive Joke! - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBxuVQ6lrAM)
(https://pics.imcdb.org/12561/zsc2.1.jpg)
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My next-door neighbor had one of these that he used to let his son (my friend) drive. And my friend let me drive it once too, which was a super special treat for 16yo me.
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Screen-Shot-2017-06-22-at-3.00.50-PM-1.png)
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My neighbor the professor has one of those, in a sort of ugly goldish brown, but a 380SL hardtop. He's told me many times I can take it out any time I want. He has the hardtop on at the moment though.
I think it would be fun.
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Yeah I saw that ugly gold/brown color on some of the cars when I did the search for the above 450SL. I guess it WAS the 70s, after all...
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Things that make a car more "sporty" to me:
Convertible
Manual transmission
Decent handling, no wallowing
Some power, but this is not critical to me, it could be an MGBGT or whatever.
The power of many modern sports cars is simply unusable except in spurts, on ramps, etc. Usually in an on ramp, even my GTI gets going faster than traffic in a couple seconds. I can light it off from a stop light, yay, whatever, but it's not what makes it fun to me.
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Oddly enough, there is a 450 SL for sale parked on the street in the neighborhood north of us, in faded black. I looked at it a bit, convertible. Probably 1975ish?
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I think my i s c & a aggie wife's Aggie dad was about to buy her a 380SL convertible right before we got married. Several times, he mentioned that he had a friend selling it, and that it was in beautiful original condition, garage-kept and immaculately maintained for all of those 20 years. But then I proposed, and he had a wedding to pay for instead, I suppose...
I think he said it was green, so perhaps like this one?
(https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/frazier/1/96/5058/1920x1440/1984-mercedes-benz-sl380)
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https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23739443/buick-regal-grand-national-gnx-history/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2dPmaEWpb6frBPPOwrnSTyaj4OqDoX8hYCQgcZifAzyPzfRvMHmcYYXyQ (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23739443/buick-regal-grand-national-gnx-history/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2dPmaEWpb6frBPPOwrnSTyaj4OqDoX8hYCQgcZifAzyPzfRvMHmcYYXyQ)
Rated at 165 horsepower, the turbocharged 3.8-liter V-6 first made it to production in 1978. The much hotter 200-hp Grand National would follow six years later.
Zounds. My GTI is rated at 220 hp out of 2.0 L, and it isn't that hot at all. Technology.
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[img width=500 height=365.98]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/89/27/08/892708ce29f06a9efe7d9cc9fe0d030a.jpg[/img]
I love all versions of the Lockheed Constellation, the most beautiful piston-engined airliner ever. This is an Air France Super Constellation.
This is Columbine II, Dwight Eisenhower's first presidential airliner and the first aircraft to use the radio callsign Air Force One. It is also the only presidential airplane to be sold to a private citizen, which, a few sales down the road, almost resulted in it being scrapped.
[img width=500 height=332.997]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Lockheed_Constellation_Columbine_II_during_President_Eisenhower%27s_visit_to_Bermuda_for_the_December_1953_Western_Summit.jpg/1280px-Lockheed_Constellation_Columbine_II_during_President_Eisenhower%27s_visit_to_Bermuda_for_the_December_1953_Western_Summit.jpg[/img]
Saved from the scrapper, in 2016 it was put into flying condition and flown from Marana Regional Airport, Arizona, to Bridgewater, Virginia for a total restoration.
Here's video coverage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7sTk1oQMs) of that flight.
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The Connie was a very advance plane for not being a jet. The 707 of course was revolutionary.
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"old-person gold."
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Why am I not seeing the images I posted there?
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BTW, not one bulkhead on the Connie's fuselage was the same as any other bulkhead. That made it more expensive to produce, and, I imagine, to maintain.
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(https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/chevy-camaro-turned-into-nomad-wagon-looks-like-hot-wheels-toy_1.jpg)
Nowadays, the wagon occupies only about 2% of the total American car market. However, back in the 1950s, almost every household had one in their driveway. Because interest in that era of cars is dwindling, we thought we'd bring this interesting transformation to your attention.
It's obviously a Chevy Camaro, which some say is the best handling pony car. However, digital artist Adry53customs decided flamboyant styling should be the focus instead of just performance, and the outcome is worthy of being called a shooting brake.
Chevy did something completely out-of-the-ordinary with the 1955 Nomad wagon. It followed the design esthetic of a hardtop coupe more than a sedan, as it boasted quite flamboyant chrome trim and door frames, unlike the regular Bel Air sedans.
It was also pretty fast for its era, available with the 283 ci (4.6-liter) small-block V8 that made 283 horsepower with fuel injection for the 1957 model year.
A station wagon with Corvette power sounds like a cool formula. But most enthusiasts invest in the cars they grew up with. That's why the most amazing builds from Chip Foose or Boyd Coddington are decades behind us. Boy, those things had amazing body chops and paint jobs!
The rendering of the day seems to capture the essence of the Nomad hot rod scene well, with candy red paint and ample chrome trim. The wheels and stance of the Camaro have been adjusted accordingly, but it still can't match the majestic beauty of the 50s classic.
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With COVID-19-related shutdowns showing little sign of ending in the very near future, many people currently have very little to look forward to. Saint Bernard Catholic Church in Rockport, Indiana may be able to change that through its annual Corvette raffle, though, which will see the parish give away a 1962 Corvette Convertible to one lucky winner.
The Saint Bernard Catholic Church has held its Corvette Raffle fundraiser for 32 years in a row, but this year’s raffle is extra special. The prize car is a 1962 Corvette Convertible with the sought-after 327 cubic-inch fuel-injected V8 engine – otherwise known as a “Fuelie” in Corvette enthusiast circles.
(https://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/1962-Chevrolet-Corvette-Raffle-Vehicle-004.jpg)
I might buy a ticket or 3. I like the car.
It's Husker RED and 1962 was a VERY good year.
1962, Bob Devaney arrived in Lincoln and FearlessF was born!
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With COVID-19-related shutdowns showing little sign of ending in the very near future, many people currently have very little to look forward to. Saint Bernard Catholic Church in Rockport, Indiana may be able to change that through its annual Corvette raffle, though, which will see the parish give away a 1962 Corvette Convertible to one lucky winner.
The Saint Bernard Catholic Church has held its Corvette Raffle fundraiser for 32 years in a row, but this year’s raffle is extra special. The prize car is a 1962 Corvette Convertible with the sought-after 327 cubic-inch fuel-injected V8 engine – otherwise known as a “Fuelie” in Corvette enthusiast circles.
[img width=500 height=332.997]https://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/1962-Chevrolet-Corvette-Raffle-Vehicle-004.jpg[/img]
I might buy a ticket or 3. I like the car.
It's Husker RED and 1962 was a VERY good year.
1962, Bob Devaney arrived in Lincoln and FearlessF was born!
The '62 Corvette is an interesting transition car. The body has the tail that would be on the '63 Corvette and the front of the '61 Corvette forward of the rear wheels. I'm not sure whether I like it better than the '61 or not. Underneath, the oxcart chassis that began with the '53 model is in its last year. The 327 Fuelie engine is the best yet in a Corvette.
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https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2020-cadillac-ct5-v-one-day-test-drive/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR3u-BD-zNozfX3mfRNYyM3m0dLTjpl5l0_5O9iVsTyqzgrtlm9iWR2_MOU (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2020-cadillac-ct5-v-one-day-test-drive/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR3u-BD-zNozfX3mfRNYyM3m0dLTjpl5l0_5O9iVsTyqzgrtlm9iWR2_MOU)
(https://i.imgur.com/n2AQ6Eu.png)
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The '62 Corvette is an interesting transition car. The body has the tail that would be on the '63 Corvette and the front of the '61 Corvette forward of the rear wheels. I'm not sure whether I like it better than the '61 or not. Underneath, the oxcart chassis that began with the '53 model is in its last year. The 327 Fuelie engine is the best yet in a Corvette.
Sounds like a cross between Johnny Cash's "One Piece at a Time" Psycho-Billie Cadillac and the car Homer Simpson designed.
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The '62 Corvette is an interesting transition car. The body has the tail that would be on the '63 Corvette and the front of the '61 Corvette forward of the rear wheels. I'm not sure whether I like it better than the '61 or not. Underneath, the oxcart chassis that began with the '53 model is in its last year. The 327 Fuelie engine is the best yet in a Corvette.
was it the 62 that was a bit different from the first half of the year and the 2nd half of the year, or am I thinking of another model year?
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https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2020-cadillac-ct5-v-one-day-test-drive/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR3u-BD-zNozfX3mfRNYyM3m0dLTjpl5l0_5O9iVsTyqzgrtlm9iWR2_MOU (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2020-cadillac-ct5-v-one-day-test-drive/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign&utm_medium&utm_source&fbclid=IwAR3u-BD-zNozfX3mfRNYyM3m0dLTjpl5l0_5O9iVsTyqzgrtlm9iWR2_MOU)
(https://i.imgur.com/n2AQ6Eu.png)
I thought of Automobile magazine when I saw a reference to a shooting brake in the Camaro-wagon article Fearless posted upthread.
David E. Davis was the "founder" of that magazine. He had been editor of Car and Driver earlier.
He was a connoisseur of fine cars, fine wines, fine cigars. He was an American with the bluest of blue-collar roots who had succeeded on the world stage of automotive journalism. He was also somewhat of a snob. I think he imagined himself as an English gentleman with a large estate, on which he and his fellow country gentlemen could hunt grouse and pheasant, after driving to the appropriate stepping-off point in their shooting brakes.
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was it the 62 that was a bit different from the first half of the year and the 2nd half of the year, or am I thinking of another model year?
I don't know about that, Fearless. I think I know that the 1950 Chevy pickup switched body styles in mid-year.
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There are a fair number of half year cars.
Automobile magazine today reads just like R&T and C&D and Moron Trend to a lesser degree.
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Well, sure, there was the '64-1/2 Mustang and the '70-1/2 Camaro, but those weren't years where the '64 Mustang changed at mid-year into something else, and same with the Camaro. But, interestingly, while the '64-1/2 Mustang was technically a '65, the '70-1/2 Camaro was a '70.
If that's was Fearless was referring to, I still don't know of any year that the Corvette was like that. Of course, I stopped following annual Corvette model changes by about 1980, so it could have happened after that, and I would know nothing about it.
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I remember thinking this car looked pretty sporty when it first came out in the early 90s. Never drove one so I have no idea how it performed:
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/1991_mitsubishi_3000gt_vr4_1544474053b81f539a9733abaMG_1216-940x627.jpg)
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4. Its sister-car was the Dodge Stealth.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fradkamaric.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F06%2F1991-Dodge-Stealth_1.jpg&hash=fba96ea3472ee7a96c958d968dae9937)
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I thought the same about those cars, Utee. I didn't want one, particularly, but I thought that they seemed to be a good combination of looks and performance.
They were heavy for their size, so maybe they didn't get any better gas mileage than American sporty cars. The 4th-generation Camaro came out as a '93 model and the 4th-generation Mustang came out as a '94 model. Maybe those cars bit into the Mitsubishi/Dodge's sales.
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The car mags mostly liked them as I recall, but not over the top. I had a friend who had one, he liked it. They were pretty big and heavy.
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I've heard that the 3000GT in VR-4 trim was generally believed to be well ahead of its time technology-wise. The car mags really liked it.
I'm not sure why it never really took off. I believe that with the size and weight, the lower trim levels were generally pretty poor-performing.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32365967/2020-porsche-911-carrera-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR3Jphvb6sAhnGDtRTWGb3kwtZI0xeBn_yooOhUWjlC4rTUwYHcZg-GSvDI (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32365967/2020-porsche-911-carrera-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR3Jphvb6sAhnGDtRTWGb3kwtZI0xeBn_yooOhUWjlC4rTUwYHcZg-GSvDI)
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monthly payments would be too high for this dirt farmer
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Some other (Mopar) cars that elevate my heart rate:
'67 Cuda
(https://i.imgur.com/AAWxBhj.png)
This is a '72 Dart that's been dolled up a bit-reminds me of the '73 that was almost mine and what we were hoping to do with it:
(https://i.imgur.com/xuIUpTy.jpg)
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The 'Cuda and the Camaro both changed body styles about the same time. And it was sort of like they swapped with each other.
1969 Camaro:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aQA6V7F9aMs/maxresdefault.jpg)
1969 Barracuda:
(https://www.conceptcarz.com/images/Plymouth/69-Plymouth-Cuda-340-DV-12-GG_016-800.jpg)
1970 Camaro:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Lz79lJvLcFk/maxresdefault.jpg)
1970 Barracuda:
(https://photos.classiccars.com/cc-temp/listing/125/9984/17835803-1970-plymouth-barracuda-thumb.jpg)
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monthly payments would be too high for this dirt farmer
They depreciate fairly slowly so leasing can be a good option.
But, the price is extreme for me also.
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Yup. '67 is my favorite year for the 'Cuda--that was the best year for its rear window (in both fastback and coupe). I didn't like the more bulbous windows, and I didn't like it as it got bigger (as all of these cars did between '69 and '73). A '68 Camaro SS is one of my favorites, but I didn't like the changes in '69, and '70 is right out (not really, but I don't love it).
I grew up in a time and place where there were '60s Mustangs all over the place. We had a speckled-gray haired old high middle school teacher who looked like a witch, actually, more like the bride of Frankenstein, with her big hair--social studies, I think8th Grade English (just looked her up)--who drove a beautiful, dark green, '66 fastback; I think--based on the google research I just did, she actually had two, one was a fastback, one was a '68 coupe--or my memory sucks (also possible). The image of her in that car is so disjointed and wildly cool. Had a friend I used to get rides from to school in her family's '68 California Special (like the one below). Great car, but in my contrarian ways, I attached myself more to the Camaro and 'Cuda--particularly the latter because of our Dart.
(https://i.imgur.com/fwIN2nB.jpg)
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Two friend of mine like Jag XKEs. The one in France has a beautiful V12 convertible. He's taken me out in it. My other friend had both a V12 and a 6 and let me drive both.
The V12 is a 1972 model. It is like driving a tank, in effect. (It also is missing 3rd gear, which wasn't really a problem.) The steering is wobbly, the handling is bad, the acceleration is rather tepid, were it a modern car, well, it simply isn't. I probably could outrace it on a track in a modern Civic.
Another friend did a very nice resto-mod on a 1966 Mustang. It looks great, and drives horribly. He fitted disc brakes and a new suspension system, the thing was a raw hulk when he started it. It has a modern 302 in it.
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Yeah--none of those cars drove well, but they looked and sounded cool.
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they drove and stopped much worse when the back tires wouldn't fit in the wheel wells and the rear was jacked up
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https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32034437/computer-chips-in-cars/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR13bEs1ij-ZORkaw0AZS95ABROm8h_DUz3SCbiKgfgxn_Bffh3sdP6CYK8 (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32034437/computer-chips-in-cars/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR13bEs1ij-ZORkaw0AZS95ABROm8h_DUz3SCbiKgfgxn_Bffh3sdP6CYK8)
Electronics Account for 40 Percent of the Cost of a New Car
No technology has so consistently and dramatically rebooted the car as the computer chip.
(https://i.imgur.com/rE4GRmn.png)
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32417763/2020-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR27lRjKjnuCbP887tkYo6Ma_H2tjS8gmrftS01fMvtRZH-gho1Lie3TDkQ (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32417763/2020-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR27lRjKjnuCbP887tkYo6Ma_H2tjS8gmrftS01fMvtRZH-gho1Lie3TDkQ)
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32417763/2020-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR27lRjKjnuCbP887tkYo6Ma_H2tjS8gmrftS01fMvtRZH-gho1Lie3TDkQ (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32417763/2020-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR27lRjKjnuCbP887tkYo6Ma_H2tjS8gmrftS01fMvtRZH-gho1Lie3TDkQ)
For a sports car, I like the idea of a naturally-aspirated flat-6 rather than a turbocharged flat-4. A turbocharged engine has a higher output than a non-turbo, all other things being equal, but it is less connected to what your right foot is doing right now.
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OK bwar, well, my i s c & a aggie wife really wanted a Jeep, so we're the proud new owners of a 2017 Wrangler Unlimited (JK). We traded in both my Tahoe, and her Toyota Solara convertible, and got a good deal so we're not out too much cash. I didn't want to pull the trigger yet given the instability of the current economic conditions, but we just had some fairly major problems with both of those older cars, and she's going back to work this week and needs reliably transportation, plus I don't want to throw good money after bad, so here we are...
So I guess you and I get to talk about our "sporty Jeeps" now. :)
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Sporty Jeeps?
What's next--beany chili?
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I view a Jeep as being sporty, actually, by which I mean fun to drive.
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Yeah we immediately pulled the doors and hardtop off. My wife does love a convertible.
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sporty in one sense of the word
does it have a hemi?
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OK bwar, well, my i s c & a aggie wife really wanted a Jeep, so we're the proud new owners of a 2017 Wrangler Unlimited (JK). We traded in both my Tahoe, and her Toyota Solara convertible, and got a good deal so we're not out too much cash. I didn't want to pull the trigger yet given the instability of the current economic conditions, but we just had some fairly major problems with both of those older cars, and she's going back to work this week and needs reliably transportation, plus I don't want to throw good money after bad, so here we are...
So I guess you and I get to talk about our "sporty Jeeps" now. :)
Nice!
If you pulled the hardtop, what are you doing for sun protection?
I recommend a bikini top for the Jeep.
I've completely removed the soft top and all hardware, and bought a small bikini top that I can put on when I know I'll be out in the sun a while. Basically if I think I'm doing more than an hour of driving, the little top goes on. Saves me from sunburn.
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Nice!
If you pulled the hardtop, what are you doing for sun protection?
I recommend a bikini top for the Jeep.
I've completely removed the soft top and all hardware, and bought a small bikini top that I can put on when I know I'll be out in the sun a while. Basically if I think I'm doing more than an hour of driving, the little top goes on. Saves me from sunburn.
Uhhhh Hawaiian Tropic and a ballcap? :)
And yes, thanks for the recommendation, a bikini top is definitely in the works. They have some with cool designs, my brother has one with a star on it, which is the Captain America version but it also happens to match the star logo of his Willys package.
Heh, I said Willys package.
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sporty in one sense of the word
does it have a hemi?
Sadly, no Hemi.
The 3,6L 6-cylinder is okay. I hear it has a little more ooomph than the previous 3.8L engine from the earlier generation. Couldn't tell you for sure, I never drove one of those.
It has enough to scoot across a couple lanes of traffic without being dangerous, so that's plenty for our purposes.
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The "Hemi" label of course is pure marketing. It means nearly nothing, and nothing of any pertinent note. Other cylinder head designs are at least as efficient and effective these days, many are more so, the DOHC designs.
The "non-HEMI" engines of similar design like the GM 6.2 L offer the same basic levels of performance.
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My JK is a 2009 2-door Rubicon.
It's slow as molasses and handles like a pig. Hard braking is terrifying; with the short wheelbase it just FEELS like it wants to swap ends.
I'm thinking of putting 35's and a lift kit on it. I'm sure that'll help :57:
Actually the main project I've been working on is the stereo. Since it's permanent-topless as its not my daily driver, the radio just wasn't cutting it with wind noise. I've already replaced the 4 main speakers with Kicker coaxial 2-ways that are designed as a JK replacement speaker, and replaced the head unit. (Went with a very basic model because the Jeep has zero security, so I didn't want theft bait).
Up next is a new 4+1 channel amp, new sub, adding a crossover for the front speakers/tweeters (the stock 8-channel amp drives them independently), and POSSIBLY replacing the tweeters. That should get me something that plays nicely over freeway wind noise.
(35's and a lift kit are actually the next intended mod after I sort the stereo--just need to confirm it won't be taller than the garage door when I'm done!)
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hemi is a mopar term of course
after chrysler bought Jeep, they started dropping the Dodge motors in them
I was thinking of the 5.7 litre for Utee's jeep
I had that 5.7 in a 2006 work truck, ran good
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my father had a hardtop and a bikini top for his jeep
it was fun and I suppose felt "sporty"
I didn't keep it because it had the 4-cylinder - would hardly pull itself
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My JK is a 2009 2-door Rubicon.
It's slow as molasses and handles like a pig. Hard braking is terrifying; with the short wheelbase it just FEELS like it wants to swap ends.
I'm thinking of putting 35's and a lift kit on it. I'm sure that'll help :57:
Actually the main project I've been working on is the stereo. Since it's permanent-topless as its not my daily driver, the radio just wasn't cutting it with wind noise. I've already replaced the 4 main speakers with Kicker coaxial 2-ways that are designed as a JK replacement speaker, and replaced the head unit. (Went with a very basic model because the Jeep has zero security, so I didn't want theft bait).
Up next is a new 4+1 channel amp, new sub, adding a crossover for the front speakers/tweeters (the stock 8-channel amp drives them independently), and POSSIBLY replacing the tweeters. That should get me something that plays nicely over freeway wind noise.
(35's and a lift kit are actually the next intended mod after I sort the stereo--just need to confirm it won't be taller than the garage door when I'm done!)
All sounds like fun. One of the most enjoyable things about a Jeep-- other than riding open air and on trails of course-- is all of the mods you can make. They're really just big-kid toys.
This one is a 2017 Rubicon, 4-door so "unlimited" and I'm told that's still the JK body, I guess it switched in 2019 to the new JL bodystyle?
I know what you mean about the short wheelbase though, my best friend since elementary school had a CJ5 Renegade in high school. That thing was tiny, short, but had a decent V8 engine in it. I'm pretty shocked we never rolled it, honestly.
Looked like this one:
(https://car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphotos/full/ebay147606009277208.jpg)
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And this is basically our new one, except we've got side step bars on it:
(https://paintref.com/graphics/sample/Jeepwrangler2015firecrackerred.jpg)
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I don't like a clean Jeep. The best thing about them is that you can drive anywhere you want...but only if you DO it. It's fun to hear how long it takes the mud to stop hitting the wheel wells once you're back on pavement.
And I don't think they drop those big-volume engines into Wranglers anymore.
On the short, 2-door Wranglers, try going fast on some washboard dirt roads......you'll go every which-way but straight. You're like a hot wheels car driving along a vibrator set on high.
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(https://st.automobilemag.com/uploads/sites/11/2019/03/2019-Mercedes-AMG-S63-06.jpg)
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(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-NRzpeak7O3Y%2FVJlYGZZDpEI%2FAAAAAAAAAj4%2Fs1O_Us1wSEc%2Fs1600%2Fg-power-s63-coupe-1.jpg&hash=ea076444b5c402f64810a2b51ccef277)
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In my mind, a large car may handle very well and accelerate potently and not be very sporty. It might be a great car still of course.
I don't consider a Tesla to be sporty, though they drive and accelerate well. I don't think a Veyron is sporty, just my opinion.
The concept of driver involvement is sporty to me, a key aspect thereof. An old slow MGBGT is sporty.
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Sure, it's a look and a feel as much as the performance itself. Probably more than the performance itself, to be honest.
Still, I wouldn't mind finding out just how sporty that Mercedes feels...
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I'm sure cars like that are a hoot to drive, and they can put up great performance numbers. Sporty? For some, no doubt, for folks like me maybe not.
It's more than numbers to me obviously.
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I think too many people equate 0-60 or quarter mile times with "sporty".
It's one aspect of what makes a car sporty, but it's not the only one.
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It's all about the individual. For some, a monster truck is sporty. For others, a finely tuned sedan is sporty. That would be me, for the most part. Sure, I'd love to drive a "sporty" 911 around town. My back would probably hate me.
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For me, a car with a manual transmission is likely to feel sporty (but not the rental cars in France).
My little Sonic felt a bit sporty, more so than the wife's CTS which would of course have shaded the Sonic handily on any race track.
The CTS-V had blistering acceleration and high levels of handling, but it for me was too big to feel sporty. The ATS-V felt sporty in comparison. They had one ATS-V with a manual but wouldn't let us drive it.
But a sporty car of course has downsides ....
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And this is basically our new one, except we've got side step bars on it:
(https://paintref.com/graphics/sample/Jeepwrangler2015firecrackerred.jpg)
Husker Red?
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my daughters wanted to keep my father's CJ. I was very afraid they would roll it. So I sold it.
Sporty usually means a puny trunk
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Husker Red?
Fire engine red, my friend. A tribute to our nation's first responders, in these troubling times.
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yup, Husker RED ;)
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yup, Husker RED ;)
Heh, well the convertible we traded in for it, was even closer to Husker red, so we're moving in the right direction.
Unfortunately my i s c & a aggie wife was not too fond of the orange Jeep that I found for her, so here we are...
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yup, Husker RED ;)
Like he said troubling times
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must have been burnt orange
Aggies hate that
couldn't find one in maroon?
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must have been burnt orange
Aggies hate that
couldn't find one in maroon?
Didn't look. They're probably out there.
I wouldn't allow a maroon car in our household any more than she'd allow a burnt orange one.
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Another big difference between us and France is the color of cars. A very percentage of cars in FR (and EU) are black, silver/grey, with few colors like blue or red or yellow.
The wife doesn't like red cars unless it's a Ferrari. That ain't happenin'.
Our CTS was a kind of creamy white color with an ivory interior, I thought it looked great. It handled really well, but we had all sorts of troubles with the run flats. I also thought the ride was rather stiff, the settings didn't seem to change anything.
(https://i.imgur.com/MvnBLYO.png)
The GTI settings change the car quite a bit.
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Speaking of 0-60 times ....
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a30905608/how-0-to-60-tests-work/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0Z_OYihY3Tfh-bdZ2BGcPTOzQDPECErwVtyQMXXHeGrOggtDmmcNAvgkw (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a30905608/how-0-to-60-tests-work/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0Z_OYihY3Tfh-bdZ2BGcPTOzQDPECErwVtyQMXXHeGrOggtDmmcNAvgkw)
Pretty interesting about the 5-60 times being quite different ....
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Speaking of 0-60 times ....
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a30905608/how-0-to-60-tests-work/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0Z_OYihY3Tfh-bdZ2BGcPTOzQDPECErwVtyQMXXHeGrOggtDmmcNAvgkw (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a30905608/how-0-to-60-tests-work/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0Z_OYihY3Tfh-bdZ2BGcPTOzQDPECErwVtyQMXXHeGrOggtDmmcNAvgkw)
Pretty interesting about the 5-60 times being quite different ....
Very interesting...
I still say the mark of a driver's skill is who gets around the racetrack faster, not who is quickest off the line.
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Of course it is. Our driving instructors could drive faster with one hand on the wheel talking into the walkie talkie than I could focusing on nothing else.
I was a bit afraid of bending the car and or abusing it. I should have abused it more, they swapped the tires and the brake pads every night.
The tires were $450 apiece, though I'm sure Michelin gave them a deal, perhaps they were free. They had a Michelin guy there and a Brembo guy there. These things use huge cast iron rotors in the front.
I knew they reported 5-60 times but hadn't realized that is more reflective of street performance.
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Very interesting...
I still say the mark of a driver's skill is who gets around the racetrack faster, not who is quickest off the line.
depends if the track is straight for a 1/4 mile or if the track has curves and completes a circle of some sort
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Without launch control, it isn't that easy to lay down a fast quarter mile in a powerful vehicle, especially if it has a clutch. Without launch control, these cars will just spin tires.
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I will say that both the driver skill and the technical wizardry necessary for competitive drag racing is astounding. I don't mean to belittle it. Getting a car from zero to 300 mph in 1000 ft and under 4 seconds is ridiculous. And for the driver, doing that without going into the wall takes tons of skill.
But for the average Joe, I'd say ability to navigate a road course quickly is a better indication of driver skill than getting a quick 1/4 mile time.
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No question, driving a road course involves acceleration, braking, and turning, each of which is a somewhat separate skill. To do it well, you need to understand how braking can shift weight at the right time entering a curve to get more weight on the front tires so they adhere better. You need to avoid losing the back end too much, but letting it kick out slightly can help, and then knowing when you can get back on the throttle can depend on track conditions, tire temperature, whether you're going uphill or down ...
We had a lot of coaching, and frankly I was terrible.
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both are skills that can be learned and improved upon
some drivers are better at one than the other
they are just different skills
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It took me longer than normal to get comfortable landing a light airplane. I tried to "think" too much instead of "feeling" and doing. Once I got the feel of the AC I was pretty decent at it. Otherwise, I'm trying to assimilate the lessons by thinking instead of doing.
It's like basketball, you have to play on instinct.
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How often do you get out of a car and think "Gee, that was really fun!!!"
Sportiness.
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How often do you get out of a car and think "Gee, that was really fun!!!"
Sportiness.
Recent. The E did well, and it was fun, looking back.
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When I drove the CTS-V on a track, I felt it was impressive, but not really fun, for me anyway.
Fun, for me, is a different experience versus driving a car with great acceleration and handling.
I'd be fine with a convertible, a manual transmission, and fairly tepid acceleration if it handled sharply and responsively.
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I love convertibles. I've had at least one in my family since 1993. The first was the '83 Mustang, then when we bought my wife's Toyota Solara convertible, I sold the Mustang shortly thereafter. And now we've traded the Toyota in for a Jeep, which is another version of a convertible. Especially once I get the drop-top soft top installed.
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you must live in a different climate than I
I don't even use the sun roof often
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I love convertibles. I've had at least one in my family since 1993. The first was the '83 Mustang, then when we bought my wife's Toyota Solara convertible, I sold the Mustang shortly thereafter. And now we've traded the Toyota in for a Jeep, which is another version of a convertible. Especially once I get the drop-top soft top installed.
One thing to look at with the Jeep, particularly with a soft top or no top, is security. When the only thing stopping someone from getting into your "trunk" is a velcro strip and a zipper, obviously you have no protection from theft.
I got the version of the below for 2-door models and found it pretty solid.
Not that you can fit ANYTHING in the trunk of a 2-door Wrangler though lol... If a small trunk is one of the defining features of a "sporty" car, the 2-door Wrangler qualifies ;-)
https://www.quadratec.com/products/14036_00XX_PG.htm (https://www.quadratec.com/products/14036_00XX_PG.htm)
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Yeah, my "dream car" (within reason) is the BMW 240i convertible. I don't think they have the manual transmission option though.
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One thing to look at with the Jeep, particularly with a soft top or no top, is security. When the only thing stopping someone from getting into your "trunk" is a velcro strip and a zipper, obviously you have no protection from theft.
I got the version of the below for 2-door models and found it pretty solid.
Not that you can fit ANYTHING in the trunk of a 2-door Wrangler though lol... If a small trunk is one of the defining features of a "sporty" car, the 2-door Wrangler qualifies ;-)
https://www.quadratec.com/products/14036_00XX_PG.htm (https://www.quadratec.com/products/14036_00XX_PG.htm)
Yeah I've been thinking about something like that.
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Folks I know who have CJs love them, and folks who had them in the past wish they had one now.
GM supposedly is coming out with an all electric Hummer, which somehow I think misses a point, but maybe not.
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The new Ford Bronco is coming out this year, basically a direct competitor to the Jeep Wrangler. They're pretty cool, going for that retro vibe that's also been captured with the Toyota FJ cruiser.
(https://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/img/tOXvfmOhQQgdtjNxCSrUrvuWp3k=/940x0/2020/03/09/1b70e28a-3155-42e9-9a07-8c7000ef6812/image.png)
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I think it'll do well with all those older dudes who miss the Broncos of their youth...
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Yeah, actual Jeep people are pretty darn brand loyal, I don't see many "switching." But it'll play well on nostalgia. I think it looks pretty cool, but I'd rather have a Jeep.
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Yeah, actual Jeep people are pretty darn brand loyal, I don't see many "switching." But it'll play well on nostalgia. I think it looks pretty cool, but I'd rather have a Jeep.
Yeah, I doubt it will cannibalize Jeep Wrangler sales, but I could see it attracting nostalgia or new entrants into this type of vehicle.
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Honestly I'd much rather have an original late 60s/early 70s Bronco,, one of my best friends in high school had one and it was awesome.
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that's your romantic memory working
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It was lot like this, though more stock, not so lifted:
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.hotrodhotline.com/ui/2/01/eYuhmhtWXK.jpg)
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Well weren't there 2 Broncos? One that was relatively narrow and smallish vs one that was wide and beastly?
There was a beastly white one in Flagstaff that had been rolled and trying to get sold. I noticed it over the years making its way from used car lot to used car lot.
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Well the Bronco itself grew over time, like most cars did, as we've been discussing on this thread.
In the 80s it had evolved to this, before it was killed off:
(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/1985_ford_bronco_1585575229948261468a4e81002-940x627.jpg)
And Chevy had the K5 Blazer which their version of the same class of car.
And there was also a Ford Bronco II in the 80s/early 90s. The modern SUVs like the Explorer eventually took the place of both of those.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/hjmiw7os1ecerbjfmspj.jpg)
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pickup trucks keep getting bigger
cars sedans/coupes keep getting smaller
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Creating enough room in between for the sport wagons!
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I think it'll do well with all those older dudes who miss the Broncos of their youth...
30 years ago, in my first assignment flying Apaches, my squadron commander--a lieutenant colonel--and the section leader of our organic U-60 Blackhawks--a first lieutenant--both had old late-'60s Broncos. They seemed to be members of a cult.
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We were dining outside on Peachtree St. this AM and chatting about some of the cars going past. I saw quite a few Mustang convertibles, one guy in a black Maserati couple was apparently driving in circles, there was a circa 1966 white Mustang convertible that went by, looked original, a red Lambo convertible, a Ferrari hardtop, some "exotic" brand SUVs, which make me chuckle, who buys a Maserati SUV? Traffic was higher than it has been of late, we thought. A lot of folks jogging and walking dogs.
I think the wife was musing about owning a convertible on a day like today.
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Sounds like Scottsdale. Very nice car-watching in Old Town.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-z06?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2mHX7rh15TKXtSR4U-cMqOK5iQ7jbogZIHLfkpnHWsCZmBjmAfhRuzqL8 (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-z06?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2mHX7rh15TKXtSR4U-cMqOK5iQ7jbogZIHLfkpnHWsCZmBjmAfhRuzqL8)
The mid-engine Z06 could destabilize the supercar status quo with an exotic engine, hair-raising performance, and price that vastly undercuts
Ferrari
I doubt any Ferrari shopper would ever think of buying a Corvette instead. GM is putting a lot of apparent development cost into these Corvette "upgrades" and I question the benefits.
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We were dining outside on Peachtree St. this AM and chatting about some of the cars going past. I saw quite a few Mustang convertibles, one guy in a black Maserati couple was apparently driving in circles, there was a circa 1966 white Mustang convertible that went by, looked original, a red Lambo convertible, a Ferrari hardtop, some "exotic" brand SUVs, which make me chuckle, who buys a Maserati SUV? Traffic was higher than it has been of late, we thought. A lot of folks jogging and walking dogs.
I think the wife was musing about owning a convertible on a day like today.
same dumbasses that buy Ford and Chevy SUVs, but with more money than brains
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https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-z06?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2mHX7rh15TKXtSR4U-cMqOK5iQ7jbogZIHLfkpnHWsCZmBjmAfhRuzqL8 (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-z06?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2mHX7rh15TKXtSR4U-cMqOK5iQ7jbogZIHLfkpnHWsCZmBjmAfhRuzqL8)
The mid-engine Z06 could destabilize the supercar status quo with an exotic engine, hair-raising performance, and price that vastly undercuts
Ferrari
I doubt any Ferrari shopper would ever think of buying a Corvette instead. GM is putting a lot of apparent development cost into these Corvette "upgrades" and I question the benefits.
true, Ferrari buyers are buying the badge
the only scenario I can think of is a guy purchases a Vette that otherwise wouldn't, just to kick his boss's ass in his Ferrari that costs 3 or 4 times as much
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https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-z06?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2mHX7rh15TKXtSR4U-cMqOK5iQ7jbogZIHLfkpnHWsCZmBjmAfhRuzqL8 (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-z06?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2mHX7rh15TKXtSR4U-cMqOK5iQ7jbogZIHLfkpnHWsCZmBjmAfhRuzqL8)
The mid-engine Z06 could destabilize the supercar status quo with an exotic engine, hair-raising performance, and price that vastly undercuts
Ferrari
I doubt any Ferrari shopper would ever think of buying a Corvette instead. GM is putting a lot of apparent development cost into these Corvette "upgrades" and I question the benefits.
There's a Z06 option for the 2020 Corvette? Someone needs to update the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge.
What is the "exotic engine"? Something employing the radical technology of overhead cams?
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rumored to be a 32-valve flat-plane-crank V-8, 5.5 liter
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rumored to be a 32-valve flat-plane-crank V-8, 5.5 liter
Surely it has dual overhead cams. Any self-respecting supercar must have that at a minimum.
I can't believe how long and far Chevy has stretched the capabilities of overhead-valve V-8s.
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rumored to be a 32-valve flat-plane-crank V-8, 5.5 liter
This made me do the Tim Allen grunt thing from Home Improvement.
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Surely it has dual overhead cams. Any self-respecting supercar must have that at a minimum.
I can't believe how long and far Chevy has stretched the capabilities of overhead-valve V-8s.
Yes, indeed. the pushrod engine does have some advantages, but this Z06 will go DOHC, and flat plane, and a few other things.
The current 6.2 L engine in the regular Vette has variable valve timing, with pushrods.
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Some like Chevy Dude's YouTube videos, some do not, but I ran across his latest video this morning and found it quite interesting. I like data and this video provided lots of it. Specifically, he appears to review 3000 total C8 orders (not all orders) in the GM system and shared the details of 2539 of the C8 orders which had VINs assigned. In most cases it appears the stats quoted were for the 2539 orders with VINs assigned and other times he may have been referring to all 3000 orders. In order to visualize the data, I found I needed to put the stats in a spreadsheet, add some totals/percentages and figured I would share it with my friends on MECF. I tried to be as accurate as I could, but it is quite likely I have an error or two in my numbers. That said, the results were still interesting to me. I assume some of the order stats are skewed based on early constraints, etc, and and not necessarily representative of what options everyone will choose in 2020.
(https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.com/filedata/fetch?id=149344&d=1590593833)
(https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.com/filedata/fetch?id=149345&d=1590593839)
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Somebody did a lot of work there. Was that you, Fearless?
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hell no
computers
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I understand they make zero dollars on the 1LT version, I don't know if they can break even on the higher trim levels or not.
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I would hope there's a few dollars profit at $100,000
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The dealers would make out obviously, I don't know about GM. They are doing some odd things these days in my view.
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https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a29821409/why-c8-corvette-is-so-quick/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR1j1sU4V4klAotxJ81aTIRRZxD0EQsRozlr3itWQw8_xINHkrQ-_usVeks (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a29821409/why-c8-corvette-is-so-quick/?src=socialflowFBRAT&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR1j1sU4V4klAotxJ81aTIRRZxD0EQsRozlr3itWQw8_xINHkrQ-_usVeks)
Explanation as to why the C8 is so much faster to 60 than the C7 with the same drive train level (Z51). The rear engine is of course the care part of that.
It's interesting how much emphasis is placed on 0-60 times (0-62 in Europe). When I was a kid, almost before cars were invented, the standard speed limit on a highway was 60 mph almost everywhere. Interstates in the south were just being built, I rarely experienced one until we moved to ATL. You drove mostly on two lane roads and cursed at trucks slowing you down on hills.
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well, since it's not lawful to drive faster than 60mph...........
it's who gets to 60 faster that wins the race
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Yeah, it's a traditional figure, used for many decades. I don't have any objection to it. Hardly anyone in real life stands on it for a quarter mile on a highway from a dead stop. It gives one an idea of how a car accelerates in relative terms.
I think the car makers go to extra lengths at times to ensure their 0-60 time is "respectable" even if they would do it differently otherwise, things like ensuring the car doesn't shirt to 3rd gear before it hits 60 and programming launch control with a lot of effort and putting sticky tires on the drive wheels.
The dual clutch transmissions don't really care about that of course.
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Yeah, one of my measures of car performance is very similar to 0-60... It's basically "can this thing easily accelerate to freeway speed from a dead stop on a metered on-ramp?" Because that's where I need the performance. Beyond that, I think 60-80 time is a good measure, because if you need passing power while battling aerodynamic forces, that's a good measure of performance.
But I also think car mags and buyers converge on 0-60 or 1/4 mile times because they're so easy to understand and easy to compare head-to-head.
I'd think skidpad numbers, measurements of times through a slalom, etc probably better measure a car's "fun factor", but it's a lot easier to just look at how fast it goes in a straight line.
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I wonder if one could make a better sporty car, in some sense, by ignoring all of these numbers and just focusing on making a car that is great to drive. It would have good numbers of course, but would just feel better.
Let the numbers play out without worry.
On occasion of course, I'll get on it a bit in the GTI in say second gear on an entrance ramp or whatever, and I find I'm going over 60 so fast that I need to let off, and that isn't a particularly quick car. I don't really have much of a chance to stay on it for more than 2-3 seconds unless I start from a standstill, and that is rare.
The other thing I value in a car with a manual is the ability to climb Interstate grades without downshifting, low end torque.
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low end torque is great for many things, but rarely considered sporty or fun
does save on the transmission
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Yeah, the Honda S2000 was sporty and had no low end torque to speak of.
I like low end torque, it makes normal driving more fun, and doesn't hurt spirited driving.
Torque >>> horsepower in most senses.
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low end torque is great for many things, but rarely considered sporty or fun
does save on the transmission
To some extent I disagree... Low end torque means you have available power anywhere in the rev range, and that IS beneficial.
Example 1:
I used to ride a Suzuki SV650S. It was a V-twin 650cc sportbike. It put out about 65 hp peak. My buddy had a Honda CBR600RR. That bike put out over 100 hp. They both peaked at about 45 Nm of torque. The difference? The Suzuki put out its peak hp at 9K RPM and torque at 7.5K RPM, and had a flatter torque profile in general. The Honda put out its peak HP at 13.5K RPM and peak torque at 11K RPM, with little torque at low RPM but obviously tried to rip your arms out of their sockets at high RPM.
I rode both bikes. The Suzuki if you were cruising at 4K RPM, and you hit the throttle, responded immediately. The Honda at 4K RPM? Twist the throttle and wait, and wait, and wait. The CBR600RR would be a much more "sporty" or "fun" bike on a racetrack or during spirited riding in the twisties. The Suzuki, despite much lower HP, was a lot more sporty around town, and was certainly fun enough on a racetrack or in the twisties.
Example 2:
The Honda S2000 was pretty fun and sporty. Putting out 240 hp in a pretty small 4-cyl engine [for the time] was pretty solid performance. But the knock on the car, by most people who ever drove it, was that you had to be into the peak throttle and peak rev ranges for it to be sporty and fun. At reasonable RPM, around town, the engine is weak. It doesn't come alive until you get into it. As an owner said (https://revsgarage.wordpress.com/2018/06/13/average-joe-car-review-honda-s2000-opportunity-screams/):
Second, an S2000 is all about that engine. Back to the previous owner’s comment. A first generation S2000 below 6200 rpm, the approximate point of VTEC engagement, is a dullard. It has no discernible torque. It feels like a Civic… not an SI, mind you, but a base Civic. And that may be too generous. But get it up on-cam and everything changes. It screams to life. It sounds dramatic, especially with the air-box cover removed (yes, purists, I know that hurts my intake air temperatures, but it sounds much better and that’s what I care about!) An S2000 without this engine would still be significantly different than a Miata for the reasons mentioned above. But add that engine and the difference grows exponentially. There are just so few cars that let you rev freely to 9000 rpm. That’s one reason I’d take a first generation S2000 over a second. I’ll trade mid-range torque any day of the week for that stratospheric redline. Other cars that can do this – an LFA, a GT3, a 458 – cost orders of magnitude more. So, for us mere mortals, an S2000 is the only realistic way to experience the thrill of an engine that JUST. KEEPS. REVVING. Now that does take a conscious adjustment in driving style. Every time I get in this car, I have to remind myself to hold a gear longer than I imagine possible (once the engine’s warmed to operating temperature, of course!). It’s just so ingrained to shift by 6000. But stay with it and the engine rewards you with power and a scream unlike any other. The engine makes the car in an S2000.
Obviously this owner is a fan. But even he admits that if you're not winding the hell out of that engine, it's a "dullard".
Problem is that you can't and don't drive like that every day. Sure, maybe it's fun when you're really ripping it around on a track (this poster clearly has track experience), but how often are you going to be driving it on the street in a manner that doesn't attract the unwanted attention of the authorities?
Example 3:
I've never driven a Tesla. Personally I don't really consider them "sporty", but I know that nearly everybody who owns a Model 3 just gushes about the acceleration. Anyone that tries to criticize a Tesla gets the "yeah bro but have you ever driven one?" response from the fanboy owners.
What does Tesla (and most other EVs) have? Instant torque, available all across the rev range. Put your foot in it and it goes.
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It is a property of an electric motor to have instant torque and that makes them useful in sporty cars at least as an adjunct to the IC engine.
You locate the battery so as to create an ultra low CG and that makes the car feel like it handles well especially if the polar moment of inertia is small.
Do you know why you don't see 'Ring times for a Tesla?
The Ring is somewhat considered now the ultimate test of a car. Car makers vie to post low Ring times in SM.
And as noted, a car with a low Ring time might not be that much fun as a daily driver.
I can't drive a new Corvette anywhere nears its capability without making arrangements, so why have the capability?
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To some extent I disagree... Low end torque means you have available power anywhere in the rev range, and that IS beneficial.
I feel we mostly agree
part of the "sporty" or "fun" is winding things up and going up and down thru the gears
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But 0-60 times are more about torque than peak hp.
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The main aspects for 0-60 times are:
Torque (curve)
Gearing (and transmission type, TC> torque converter > manual)
Tires (traction)
Drive type (FWD<RWD<AWD)
Ancillary (surface type, temperature, launch control, etc.)
The fastest cars are AWD with some RWD midengine cars getting into the fray under 3.0 seconds.
Those 60's muscle cars in general had poor tires (by modern standards), no launch control, no twin clutch transmissions, but a lot of torque, getting a good launch was not an easy thing to do). They also were heavy in the front end.
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Ferrari 812 Superfast Review: One of the Best Engines of All Time
The result—an aero-focused, heavy-for-Ferrari GT supercar with rear-axle steering and hyperintelligent traction control—is far more than the sum of its parts, a completely enchanting ride with more than enough theatrics to justify the $358,000 ticket price. Still, when an engine is as good as this one, it breaks the curve for the rest of the car. Every other part of the experience has to rise to the moment as well.
https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/33779/ferrari-812-superfast-review-one-of-the-best-engines-of-all-time (https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/33779/ferrari-812-superfast-review-one-of-the-best-engines-of-all-time)
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There was a great article in Road & Track almost five years ago now: "The Unlikely Story of the Ferrari-Beating Shelby Daytona Coupe (https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a26376/coupe-de-grace-shelby-daytona-coupe-story/)."
A few passages:
SUMMIT POINT, 2015: The engine starts, this barking burble. RapapapaWHAPPATACRACKATA. Sitting in the seat when it lights for the first time is like firecrackers in an airplane bathroom—you jump a little, but there's nowhere to go.
I shuffle the car around for photography, in street clothes. The aluminum floor, inches from a header, leaves a shiny burn on my ankle the first time I accidentally relax my leg. And the second, and the third.
I brought a Nomex race suit. As I head off to put it on, Pete makes fun of me. Tells me to be a man, tape up my ankle. That Miles tested the thing in T-shirts.
So I grumble a little and think, Miles, you pansy. You only live once. And I click the car's little four-point harness shut and pull onto the track, and attempt to drive a given quantity of whee out of it. In a Le Mans car, surrounded by fuel and explosions and aluminum too hot to touch, in a tiny leather bucket, bare-ankled, in a T-shirt and khakis. The car comes on cam and explodes onto the front straight.
God help me, I love it. —SS
And
SUMMIT POINT, 2015: You can chuck it. You can wrestle it, and if you're feeling saucy, you can tackle the car down to the corner, sloppy and free, without losing much speed. You can also drive it like the classicists, slow hands on that thin wooden wheel, and it works. Balletic. But Jesus, it's less fun.
Above all, it's honest. There's so much grip, you need the revs way up if you want to steer it with your right foot. A gentle wiggle from the back end under hard braking. If it under-steers in slow corners, it's because you did something wrong—the front suspension is basically just a leaf spring and kingpins, but it works amazingly well. The wheel gets heavy when the nose is sliding, always talking. And if the rear is going to move, the wheel gets light, and you correct, and it comes back.
The sensations are gobsmacking. The long, graceful hood, always leading the way. The setting sun gets in my eyes in a slow corner, the middle of a second-gear slide, and I instinctively pull a hand off the wheel to block it. A swirl of cockpit dust lights up in the glare. The car leaps over the hump on Shenandoah's back straight and lands a little crooked, but friendly. The engine is just torquey, hammering, long-legged Detroit.
Of course it won everything—it's a Cobra with the Cobra's main problem obliterated. After five minutes, I have zero doubt that one would carry me through a brawl at Le Mans or anywhere else.
Grabbing fourth on the front straight, I am suddenly struck by an inexplicable need to know what this car feels like at 180 mph. —SS
And
SUMMIT POINT, 2015: We can be brilliant, the human race. But also very stupid. I wouldn't trade the safety advancements of a modern competition car for all the Nomex in Europe, but there is something here that we've lost. Undeniably walked away from. Something sublime and raw that we're never getting back.
And I'd be lying if I didn't say that there is a tiny, embarrassingly Luddite part of me that wishes everything since had never happened. That this had been the final stroke of an art form, race cars never evolving further. And that they still ran Le Mans and old Spa and old Reims with loud things that were graceful and brutal and risky and thin. That it was possible for a handful of clever guys in a garage in Southern California to throw caution aside, take on that world, and win.
We got a moment, though. An instant of that light, from a bunch of hometown upstarts. Ours.
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Ferrari 812 Superfast Review: One of the Best Engines of All Time
The result—an aero-focused, heavy-for-Ferrari GT supercar with rear-axle steering and hyperintelligent traction control—is far more than the sum of its parts, a completely enchanting ride with more than enough theatrics to justify the $358,000 ticket price. Still, when an engine is as good as this one, it breaks the curve for the rest of the car. Every other part of the experience has to rise to the moment as well.
https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/33779/ferrari-812-superfast-review-one-of-the-best-engines-of-all-time (https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/33779/ferrari-812-superfast-review-one-of-the-best-engines-of-all-time)
I literally just watched a video on this car last night.
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impressive - I'd never spend that kinda money even if I hit a powerball ticket for 150 million, but wow
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(https://i.imgur.com/ieoZhuE.png)
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sporty pic
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sporty pic
There were six original Shelby Daytona Coupes made. They won the World Championship of Makes in the GT class in 1965, racing on a shoestring budget, as both Shelby and Ford had moved on to the GT40. I think that that was the first time an American manufacturer (Shelby) had ever won it.
After that year, they were done. Carroll Shelby and Ford Racing had totally lost interest.
So those six cars sat in a garage in England for several months. Finally, the Englishman who ran Ford Racing in Europe told Shelby that if nobody came and got them, he was going to dump them in the ocean.
Shelby sold them at a "garage sale" for $24,000 total, for all six.
Today, each of them is worth "double-digit millions."
I don't know if that's one of the original six, but I think it is. The driving commentary I posted upthread was in reference to an original, and this was the only car shown in the story except for testing and racing photos from 1964-65.
The engines were 289s with Weber carbs.
The designer was Pete Brock, who by ca. 1970 had left Shelby and was running Datsuns (Nissans) in Sports Car Club of America races under his own team, Brock Racing Enterprises (BRE).
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Oops! It's a replica. A "hyperaccurate, aluminum-bodied replica built by Daytona restoration guru Mike McCluskey."
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The tires are a giveaway, cars in the 60s didn't have tires like that, profile and width.
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well IMO, tires can be upgraded on original cars w/o causing a problem with the originality
trying to find a set of tires from the 60s that are still road worthy is near impossible
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To be truly original, you need the original wheels, and that means trouble fitting modern tires. And they do make tires for older vehicles, they are expensive. It's a way to spot a resto-mod versus a numbers matching true original.
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speaking of tires.............
https://www.corvetteblogger.com/2020/06/02/video-2020-corvette-stingray-with-drag-radials-runs-10-922-in-the-quarter-mile/ (https://www.corvetteblogger.com/2020/06/02/video-2020-corvette-stingray-with-drag-radials-runs-10-922-in-the-quarter-mile/)
Prior to the arrival of the mid-engine Corvette Stingray, previous owners had to rely on huge horsepower aka the 2019 ZR1 or the C7 Z06 to claim it’s a 10-second car. According to this video from Andrew at Complete Street Performance, now all you need is a C8 Corvette Stingray Z51 Coupe and a set of drag radials.
Andrew was at Cecil County Dragway in Rising Sun, Maryland where a Sebring Orange 2020 Corvette Stingray was waiting for a day of fast passes. The Stingray’s only modification is said to be a set of drag tires. On his first pass, he runs 10.922 at 125.95 mph! How’s that for a boost in confidence!
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To be truly original, you need the original wheels, and that means trouble fitting modern tires. And they do make tires for older vehicles, they are expensive. It's a way to spot a resto-mod versus a numbers matching true original.
agreed, I've seen this on the barrett-jackson auctions
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Yeah, drag radials, or "slicks" are wonderments, but not street legal of course, no tread.
He probably had a sticky surface as well and did a preburnout.
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well, Andrew was at the Cecil County Dragway
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Well those are certainly modern tires. But how much wider they are than the originals, I don't know. Here's an original in the pits. Those front tires don't look much, if any, skinnier than the ones on the replica. But it is tough to tell for sure.
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/roa.h-cdn.co/assets/15/33/1439495051-roa090115fea-daytona-nighttime2.jpg?crop=1.0xw:1xh;center,top&resize=768:*)
(https://hips.hearstapps.com/roa.h-cdn.co/assets/15/33/1600x800/landscape-1439491847-roa090115fea-daytona-03.jpg?resize=768:*)
The back tires are obviously wider than the fronts, but that was the case on the original too, just as it was the case on the 289 Cobra roadster, to which the Daytona Coupe was mechanically identical.
Here's an original at a show in 2010.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Shelby_Daytona%2C_1964.JPG/1280px-Shelby_Daytona%2C_1964.JPG)
The rear tires don't look quite as wide.
In any event, though, if one of the originals were being driven at speed, I imagine it would have modern tires on it rather than 1965 Goodyears.
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It's not the width I spotted, it was the profile. That is clearly different.
Standard tire size for 1964 Ford GT40 Mk I (prototype):
(in case of different tires in front and rear the dimensional data are valid for driving or rear wheels)
| Standard tire size: | 9.75 - 15 (F); 12.8 - 15 (R) |
| Tire width (mm): | 325 |
| Tire sidewall factor: | 60 |
| Rim size (in): | 15 |
| Total wheel diameter (mm / in): | 771 / 30.4 |
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Those were ultra sporty tires in 1964.
I know a Corvette in not in that class, but this is its tire size in 1964:
1964 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (https://tiresize.com/tires/Chevrolet/Corvette/1964/Coupe/)
205/75R15 (https://tiresize.com/tiresizes/205-75R15.htm)
The notable change is in wheel diameter and accompanying drop in profile. The actual rolling diameter stays about the same (not too far off).
You just have less "rubber" showing.
Tires By Vehicle By Size By Diameter
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The GT40's specs say a 60 profile on the rear tires. What do you think the modern tires look like--a 50 profile?
Here's a Daytona racing at the "HSR Historicals" in 2009. I think it's an original, but it definitely has modern tires.
[img width=500 height=332.997]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Shelbydaytonacoupe.JPG/1280px-Shelbydaytonacoupe.JPG[/img]
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less sidewall to fold in a corner
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The wife's Cadillac had 35 profile tires on it. A four door sedan with a 4 cylinder engine. 35.
They were a real problem, one reason I traded the car.
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My Boss 302 Mustang has fat tires. Front: P255/40R19; rear: P285/35R19.
The factory tires for my 1967 289-4V Mustang were not fat. Or low-profile. 195/75x14.
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One of the car mags did a handling test using a BMW 328i equipped with different wheel diameters from 16" to 22" with attendance change in profile to keep the overall diameter the same. The car got notably slower as the wheel diameter increased, and handling was optimal at 17-18" . The rest is aesthetics, even speed of turn in didn't benefit.
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My Boss 302 Mustang has fat tires. Front: P255/40R19; rear: P285/35R19.
The factory tires for my 1967 289-4V Mustang were not fat. Or low-profile. 195/75x14.
radials hadn't been invented in 67
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The first radial tire designs were patented in 1915 by Arthur W. Savage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_William_Savage#San_Diego,_CA,_Savage_Tire), a tire manufacturer (1915–1919), and inventor in San Diego, CA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego,_CA).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-3)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-4) Savage's patents expired in 1949.
Michelin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelin) in France (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) designed, developed, patented, and commercialized the radial tire.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-Kraus-5) There is no evidence that Michelin had knowledge of Arthur Savage's earlier work.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] The first Michelin X radial tire for cars was developed in 1946 by Michelin researcher Marius Mignol.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-Kraus-5) Michelin owned the leading automaker Citroën (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroën), so it was quickly able to introduce its new design, including on the new 1948 Citroën 2CV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroën_2CV) model.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-6) In 1952, Michelin developed a radial truck tire.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-7)
Because of its significant advantages in durability and fuel economy,[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-8) this technology spread quickly in Europe and Asia in the 1950s and 1960s.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-Kraus-5)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-9)[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_tire#cite_note-jags.org-1)
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hmmm, maybe didn't become popular here in the farm area quickly.
I remember riding in my grandfather's 1971 buick LeSabre on radial tires. They made slapping sounds hitting the cracks in the highway at 60mph.
Hah, that 71 LeSabre with the 260hp 350 became my father's car. It was the car I learned to drive in and the car I drove until I got my first car as a junior in high school.
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radials hadn't been invented in 67
Hence no "R" in the Tire Code.
I should say, my '67 Mustang didn't come from the factory with radials. I put BFG Radial T/As on it, about 225/60x14. I really should have upgraded to 15" wheels, but I was always operating that thing on a shoestring budget.
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The first factory car with radials was a 1973 Continental, in the US. Europe was using them earlier because of Michelin, which apparently is one heckuva tire company. They are HQ's in a rather interesting smallish city near the south of France in the mountains almost.
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Hence no "R" in the Tire Code.
I should say, my '67 Mustang didn't come from the factory with radials. I put BFG Radial T/As on it, about 225/60x14. I really should have upgraded to 15" wheels, but I was always operating that thing on a shoestring budget.
that's very close to what I put on my 70 Nova SS
and shoestring budget is what I had
bought the car in 1980 for $700
needed paint and tires
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I had a '73 Nova with the 350 and the new ugly bumpers. Had bucket seats and floor mounted shifter, was pretty cool I thought. Came with bias ply raised white letter tires. They had dropped the SS moniker by then. It was fast for its day, I think the mags had 0-60 at 8.5 seconds.
Anything under 10 was "fast". Not many new cars today are over 10 seconds.
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https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1128325_the-2020-cadillac-ct4-v-s-engine-has-a-unique-turbo-design-in-the-name-of-torque (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1128325_the-2020-cadillac-ct4-v-s-engine-has-a-unique-turbo-design-in-the-name-of-torque)
The CT4-V uses a version of General Motors' L3B 2.7-liter inline-4, first seen in the Chevrolet Silverado (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1116793_chevy-adds-turbocharged-gas-and-diesel-options-to-silverado-1500) pickup truck. As Fenske is quick to point out, General Motors made a big deal initially about this engine supposedly being a truck-specific design, likely to assuage buyer wariness of a 4-cylinder engine in a full-size pickup.
Just like the name says, the engine's dual-scroll turbo has two "volutes"—the passages that circulate air through the turbo. They're stacked one on top of the other. This is similar in concept to a twin-scroll turbo, but the latter places its passages side by side, Fenske noted.
In the GM engine, the dual-volute turbo is paired with an integrated exhaust manifold. The combination helps separate exhaust pulses from individual cylinders, which improves response. A twin-scroll turbo works on the same principle, but is slightly less efficient, Fenske said.
A twin-scroll turbo directs exhaust gases to just one side of the turbine, while the dual-volute setup sends gases to both sides. That ensures that the maximum amount of exhaust gases are used to spin the turbine, getting it up to speed more quickly. The dual-volute setup also shortens the distance between the exhaust passages and the turbine, further improving responsiveness.
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https://www.motortrend.com/news/fastest-cars-angus-mackenzie-photos/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2JmeVproIcU42tjmh6sd2kNP-iiAnIGp5oGrdLOWl9-w4iq6uuVzZmYpM (https://www.motortrend.com/news/fastest-cars-angus-mackenzie-photos/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2JmeVproIcU42tjmh6sd2kNP-iiAnIGp5oGrdLOWl9-w4iq6uuVzZmYpM)
Driving fast in Germany ....
The last time I was there I had a rental Diesel sedan, a Vauxhall I think, and it would do 180 kph before getting wobbly. The speed limits in that area were off and on a lot so we didn't have more than 4-5 miles of unlimited. I spent most of my time watching the rear view mirror.
It would be kinda neat to have an unlimited tollway somewhere in the US.
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montana, wyoming, utah, nevada, north dakota
nominated
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https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a32823540/2022-corvette-z06-reportedly-getting-active-aero-and-carbon-wheels/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2yktbtDCR7KZjGZl8wKeyvCXbW4SziBSbhCK7de439LMzu62tXkso8EBY (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a32823540/2022-corvette-z06-reportedly-getting-active-aero-and-carbon-wheels/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2yktbtDCR7KZjGZl8wKeyvCXbW4SziBSbhCK7de439LMzu62tXkso8EBY)
C8 will run size 275/30R20 tires up front and 345/25/R21s in the rear. That's 10mm narrower at the front compared to a C7 Z06, but 10mm wider at the back.
Even a modest pot hole could dent those rims.
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https://www.motortrend.com/news/fastest-cars-angus-mackenzie-photos/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2JmeVproIcU42tjmh6sd2kNP-iiAnIGp5oGrdLOWl9-w4iq6uuVzZmYpM (https://www.motortrend.com/news/fastest-cars-angus-mackenzie-photos/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2JmeVproIcU42tjmh6sd2kNP-iiAnIGp5oGrdLOWl9-w4iq6uuVzZmYpM)
Driving fast in Germany ....
The last time I was there I had a rental Diesel sedan, a Vauxhall I think, and it would do 180 kph before getting wobbly. The speed limits in that area were off and on a lot so we didn't have more than 4-5 miles of unlimited. I spent most of my time watching the rear view mirror.
It would be kinda neat to have an unlimited tollway somewhere in the US.
I haven't seen "Vauxhall" mentioned in a long time.
I was unaware that it is still a going concern.
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Yeah, some supercars are now offering carbon fiber wheels - relatively a lot of weight loss.
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I haven't seen "Vauxhall" mentioned in a long time.
I was unaware that it is still a going concern.
https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/
(https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/)I used to get them as a rental, along with Peugot and Renault. The last rental was a Toyota Yaris, which to me was a shockingly bad car overall. I don't know if our Yaris is the same. Maybe the transmission and clutch were worn out. I used Europcar this time because of proximity to where I was staying. They may be the Thrifty of France.
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This looks like fun...
https://carbuzz.com/news/this-crazy-track-car-can-corner-better-than-any-supercar
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This looks like fun...
https://carbuzz.com/news/this-crazy-track-car-can-corner-better-than-any-supercar
Looks like a thoroughly modern reboot of the old Lotus 7.
(https://i.imgur.com/wiu4lXd.jpg)
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The Mazda Miata or whatever they call it now is a great "sporty car" but I don't fit in it. At all.
It has enough engine to be fun I think without being anywhere near "super fast". I see a lot of Mustang convertible about town and start to think .... then I see a BMW convertible and think about the 240i. The weather here is a lot more conducive for top down.
The neighbor has a Mercedes 380SL convertible which he says we can take out any time once he gets the hard top off it. I bet that is fun in a different way.
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[img width=500 height=331.992]https://i.imgur.com/8xoFLqP.jpg[/img]
Can anyone ID this car? This used to be parked in our building garage. It's an interesting story (the car company).
It's probably slow as molasses in winter time.
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(https://i.imgur.com/ejhzWaP.jpg)
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No idea, CD. Looks like it's rear-engined, as there's nothing in the way of cooling shown on the front.
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https://auto.howstuffworks.com/1947-1948-crosley-convertible-and-wagon.htm (https://auto.howstuffworks.com/1947-1948-crosley-convertible-and-wagon.htm)
http://www.classic-car-history.com/crosley-cars.htm (http://www.classic-car-history.com/crosley-cars.htm)
Made in Cincinnati, once the name of the baseball field there.
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Heh! I never connected Crosley Field with Crosley Cars.
I remember reading Roger Maris at Bat ca. 1964, and remember that that the Yanks played the Reds in the '61 WS.
Was it Crosley Field that had the rise in deep left, or was that Forbes Field in Pittsburgh?
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http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/CrosleyField.html (http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/CrosleyField.html)
Crosley Field was a cozy little ballpark with a number of quaint and amusing features. It was most famed for the outfield slope that served the purpose of a warning track, but often gave visiting team left fielders the fits. Babe Ruth once tripped out there during his final season, and left the field in disgust. (This was the inspiration for the slope in center field at Minute Maid Park (http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/MinuteMaidPark.html), removed after the 2016 season.) In 1935 that slope was extended along the center field fence all the way to the right field corner, thereby reducing the effective height of the fence on that side of the field. Crosley Field stood out from all the rest in two other ways: it was the first major league ballpark to install lights for night games; this was done in 1935. On the other hand, it was the last of the classical era ballparks (http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/Stadiums_by_class.html#Early20thC) (early 20th Century) in which the upper deck was extended from the infield down to the foul lines; this was done in 1939.
(https://i.imgur.com/nZrZ67m.png)
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Crosley Water Park in that picture.
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Yeah, that area used to flood pretty often apparently, the Mill Creek Valley. They built DIKES of course and when the Ohio gets to flood stage, they pump the Mill Creek over the dikes.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32935590/inside-the-edelbrock-carburetor-factory/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2NHXgaJ_9SgDEznCQZ1yB0DN6r6ezmgnoBQXn0gpKesA-H5vfsrX3L20g (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32935590/inside-the-edelbrock-carburetor-factory/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2NHXgaJ_9SgDEznCQZ1yB0DN6r6ezmgnoBQXn0gpKesA-H5vfsrX3L20g)
Wow.
The carburetor is an archaic device. The analog precursor to electronic fuel injection had a good run, but by the early 1990s carburetors were mostly extinct from new cars. It would follow, you'd think, that the factories that make carburetors would go extinct as well, right along with the ones that made cassette tapes, camera film, and typewriters. But every weekday in Sanford, North Carolina, about 100 employees punch in at the big white building on Clyde Rhyne Drive and set to work building four-barrel Edelbrocks. If the carburetor is extinct, nobody told Edelbrock, which makes about 450 of them per day.
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for classic cars I assume
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Yeah, I recall back in the day that a carb would need rebuilding every 60,000 miles or so. They were usually rebuilt, not replaced, you just replaced the worn parts like springs and nozzles. I guess today it's easier and pretty cheap just to swap the whole thing and let the company rebuild it. You order a nice clean new one and swap it out in a couple of hours.
Fuel injection was a major advance in emissions control, aside from divability and performance.
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Sports cars have been around basically since the horseless carriage itself. Take a look back at a hundred years of go-fast machinery condensed into one video.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/121958324/the-evolution-of-the-sports-car (https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/121958324/the-evolution-of-the-sports-car)
Comparethemarket.com.au has created a video animation to show the evolution of the fastest production car of each decade, spanning the last 100 years. As well as providing an average horsepower and top speed figure, the video shows how the shapes of these speed machines has changed over time.
The roaring ‘20s: Old fashioned speed machines
(https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/4/y/m/z/u/l/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.710x400.20lzn8.png/1593461801061.jpg)
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for classic cars I assume
Classic in the sense of '60s muscle-cars.
Or maybe to try to put some performance in a late-'70s-early-'80s faux-muscle car.
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I used to ponder upgrading my '73 Nova, but when I had enough money, it was long in the tooth. I planned to add headers, a new intake manifold, electronic ignition, and take off the AIR pump and maybe put lower restriction mufflers on it.
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https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/transatlantic-tussle-chevrolet-corvette-vs-jaguar-e-type?fbclid=IwAR0AD4gVIKhVnX6Hq3PL1_QvZCXBCPHZBQGd-d4dzZ89rGqpes-DXAF0614 (https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/transatlantic-tussle-chevrolet-corvette-vs-jaguar-e-type?fbclid=IwAR0AD4gVIKhVnX6Hq3PL1_QvZCXBCPHZBQGd-d4dzZ89rGqpes-DXAF0614)
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https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/transatlantic-tussle-chevrolet-corvette-vs-jaguar-e-type?fbclid=IwAR0AD4gVIKhVnX6Hq3PL1_QvZCXBCPHZBQGd-d4dzZ89rGqpes-DXAF0614 (https://www.classicandsportscar.com/features/transatlantic-tussle-chevrolet-corvette-vs-jaguar-e-type?fbclid=IwAR0AD4gVIKhVnX6Hq3PL1_QvZCXBCPHZBQGd-d4dzZ89rGqpes-DXAF0614)
Nice article! I liked the Jag better as a kid and I still do.
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The Jag is an elegant design, no doubt, and a very good car for its time. My buddy had two, one a 6 and one a 12. The drive like trucks.
My other buddy in France has a V-12 red convertible that is gorgeous, never drove it, rode in it, he was scaring me.
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https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ferrari/f8/2020/2020-ferrari-f8-spider-first-drive/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2i3u3eUA9ExRtuEwyQyOy1eL_FRFzpRIiQV-CUmpcuToAuIHgNx4v2rig (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ferrari/f8/2020/2020-ferrari-f8-spider-first-drive/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2i3u3eUA9ExRtuEwyQyOy1eL_FRFzpRIiQV-CUmpcuToAuIHgNx4v2rig)
Not my preferred color, but a very nice looking vehicle.
(https://i.imgur.com/p4In0kP.png)
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15143384/1963-chevrolet-corvette-sting-ray-first-drive-review-car-reviews/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2Kp-CIW1uMo4rrM2mE_YinA_GPJ0R5LxG5u0dwfBr1ge73JofjOhctDxE (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15143384/1963-chevrolet-corvette-sting-ray-first-drive-review-car-reviews/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2Kp-CIW1uMo4rrM2mE_YinA_GPJ0R5LxG5u0dwfBr1ge73JofjOhctDxE)
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https://www.automobilemag.com/news/why-ford-mustang-ii-was-not-terrible/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0QVvljCu5ymDW_rM5gqEonya29gxxCj1cHrV7Dmnhz8ShrXM6OYwW2svk (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/why-ford-mustang-ii-was-not-terrible/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0QVvljCu5ymDW_rM5gqEonya29gxxCj1cHrV7Dmnhz8ShrXM6OYwW2svk)
I test drove one once, it was atrocious.
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I can only imagine
weren't too many cars from 1974-78 that weren't atrocious
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15141790/gto-vs-gto-road-test/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0D6ULRspNIyH4UoY3W5rtTpl2S7j1H1ccXks_k-9fM4o5oTyQBrJKWxu0 (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15141790/gto-vs-gto-road-test/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0D6ULRspNIyH4UoY3W5rtTpl2S7j1H1ccXks_k-9fM4o5oTyQBrJKWxu0)
Anybody down for a GTO?
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The 1965 GTO models represented great styling and power and became very popular among young consumers – generating huge sales for Pontiac. The 1965 GTO offered many new and exclusive features designed specifically for this model. A new and distinctive simulated air intake was located in the center of the hood top panel, and an eye-catching paint stripe just below the fender offered a sporty look. The GTO models were powered with the famous Pontiac 389 cubic inch engine with a four-barrel carburetor as standard or an optional engine with three two-barrel carburetion.
(https://www.motorcities.org/images/SOTW_2-12-2020/Motor_Trend_cover_featuring_1965_Pontiacs_8_RESIZED.jpg)
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CWS likes the fake hood scoops. Some later Firebirds had functional ones.
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If you wanted a two seater and had $100 K to spend, what would you opt for? (No, you can't buy a beater and pocket the change.)
I'd want to test drive a Porsche Boxster. I don't know if I fit in it.
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster)
https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette)
Probably one of those two, convertible.
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my golf clubs would probably fit better in the Vette
I'm only 5'10". I'd be fine in either.
Convertibles are fine, but not a big deal to me. The coupe would probably be my choice.
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Corvette Racing's victorious drivers in IMSA's WeatherTech 240, Antonio Garcia and Jordan Taylor, have described the American marque's landmark 100th North American sportscar racing win as "huge" and "special".
https://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news/corvette-daytona-garcia-taylor-victory/4825715/ (https://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news/corvette-daytona-garcia-taylor-victory/4825715/)
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https://www.autoweek.com/news/sports-cars/g32825168/20-best-sports-sporty-cars-under-50000/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=dda_fb_aw_d_i_g32825168&fbclid=IwAR0KEc0xOe49VPy6Npzq7PoaeuZSanvJzWiF13CZcJyGzEQnqbXPWGr-Zic&slide=8 (https://www.autoweek.com/news/sports-cars/g32825168/20-best-sports-sporty-cars-under-50000/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=dda_fb_aw_d_i_g32825168&fbclid=IwAR0KEc0xOe49VPy6Npzq7PoaeuZSanvJzWiF13CZcJyGzEQnqbXPWGr-Zic&slide=8)
Some four door sedans in the group which is interesting.
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This car seems pretty sporty ...
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33208792/2020-mercedes-amg-gt-r-roadster-drive/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1ocF3AFLQiwG058frTrf17Z6zAvUhJPgphH_dNGj_Q0TavbNpCXYyEoMQ (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33208792/2020-mercedes-amg-gt-r-roadster-drive/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1ocF3AFLQiwG058frTrf17Z6zAvUhJPgphH_dNGj_Q0TavbNpCXYyEoMQ)
(https://i.imgur.com/6sWOscL.png)
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nice
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More of a challenge is to find a less than $15,000 used sporty car you'd like to own as a third vehicle to drive around on nice days for the heck of it. The Saturn Sky would be on my list I think, if one had a manual and was in decent shape.
I'd want a convertible, a manual, not crazy horsepower but decent, two seater, some room for an over night bag, depreciated pretty much, not too old so it has fuel injection.
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more options if you upped the dollars to $20K or 30K
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As is always the case. Some marques like Porsche don't depreciate much, but can still break down and cost money.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15143384/1963-chevrolet-corvette-sting-ray-first-drive-review-car-reviews/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2Kp-CIW1uMo4rrM2mE_YinA_GPJ0R5LxG5u0dwfBr1ge73JofjOhctDxE (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15143384/1963-chevrolet-corvette-sting-ray-first-drive-review-car-reviews/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2Kp-CIW1uMo4rrM2mE_YinA_GPJ0R5LxG5u0dwfBr1ge73JofjOhctDxE)
Nice write-up. The ensuing models ('64-'67) got better in many ways, but the split rear window in the '63 was a classic look.
Car mags are much heavier on pictures nowadays.
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https://www.automobilemag.com/news/why-ford-mustang-ii-was-not-terrible/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0QVvljCu5ymDW_rM5gqEonya29gxxCj1cHrV7Dmnhz8ShrXM6OYwW2svk (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/why-ford-mustang-ii-was-not-terrible/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR0QVvljCu5ymDW_rM5gqEonya29gxxCj1cHrV7Dmnhz8ShrXM6OYwW2svk)
I test drove one once, it was atrocious.
A gussied-up, heavier Pinto. If you're gonna buy what's effectively a Pinto, pay less money and get a lighter, more efficient car by buying a real Pinto.
It served one function in retrospect. It carried the Mustang name as sort of a place-holder for awhile. So unlike all other pony cars, the Mustang has been in continuous production.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15141790/gto-vs-gto-road-test/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0D6ULRspNIyH4UoY3W5rtTpl2S7j1H1ccXks_k-9fM4o5oTyQBrJKWxu0 (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15141790/gto-vs-gto-road-test/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0D6ULRspNIyH4UoY3W5rtTpl2S7j1H1ccXks_k-9fM4o5oTyQBrJKWxu0)
Anybody down for a GTO?
What a great article!
I wasn't reading C/D in 1964 when they did the GTO vs. GTO test, and I might not have been in 1984. But in the '70s, I read every issue. And Don Sherman, Brock Yates, and David E. Davis, Jr., were the guys who made that magazine go.
The original Pontiac GTO in the 1964 comparison was a ringer, of course. It had a 400-CID engine rather than a 383. It had a lower (higher numerical ratio) gear in the rear end for better acceleration. You could not buy a Pony-Ack GTO like the one they ran in that comparison test.
The three major car magazines then were Car and Driver (C/D), Road & Track (R&T), and Motor Trend (MT). And they were distinctively different. MT was bland, R&T was heavy on technical specs, and C/D was about how performance cars stirred your soul.
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CWS likes the fake hood scoops. Some later Firebirds had functional ones.
Heh! Don't forget the fake paint stripes.
If you wanted a two seater and had $100 K to spend, what would you opt for? (No, you can't buy a beater and pocket the change.)
I'd want to test drive a Porsche Boxster. I don't know if I fit in it.
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster (https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/718-boxster)
https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette (https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette)
Probably one of those two, convertible.
Can you get into a Porsche Cayman for $100k?
If I had $50k in loose change to spend on a toy, I might get an old TR-3A (I had a '59 one for awhile) and resto-mod it.
British Racing Green with tan top and seats. And an all-new, made-in-America wiring harness to replace the stock one made by Joseph "Prince of Darkness Lucas.
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Can you get into a Porsche Cayman for $100k?
From $57,500.
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That would be what I would get with my $100k then.
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That would be what I would get with my $100k then.
The problem with Porsche is options. A lot of them look like things you'd want, but they are very expensive. But you can get a nicely optioned Porsche Cayman for $85,000 or so.
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From $57,500.
cheaper than the base C8
probably not available in real life
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Ford Bronco getting lots of buzz, especially in the Jeep groups I occasionally participate in:
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/200713153348-01-new-ford-broncos-exlarge-169.jpg)
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I don't understand the "cool factor" of no doors
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I love going no-doors on the Jeep, and even better while topless, which we call "fully nekkid."
When our doors are off, we have these pegs that fit into the lower door hinges, that make a place to rest your foot outside the body of the vehicle.
(https://www.quadratec.com/sites/default/files/styles/product_zoomed/public/product_images/JCR-footpeg-cj7-yj-tj-lj-install.jpg)
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I don't understand the "cool factor" of no doors
Top down and doors off is as close as you can get to the "freedom" sensation of riding a motorcycle while remaining on 4 wheels IMHO.
So much of automotive effort these days seem to be insulating you from the experience of driving. And I get it... When I'm not in the Jeep, I want a quiet comfortable vehicle. With most vehicles, it's a mode of transportation and the goal is to get from point A to B, not to make the journey.
But certain cars it's about the journey. "Sporty cars" are about the journey. You don't necessarily want a car that's disconnected from driving--you want a car that gives you feedback from the road and is an immersive and exhilarating experience.
Riding a motorcycle is about the journey. Whether it's a sportbike, or a cruiser, or even a Goldwing, you are immersed in the experience.
A Jeep, with the top down and the doors off, makes you part of your environment. It's loud. It's windy. If it's below 75 degrees, it's COLD at highway speeds. But you're part of the experience. You're not hiding from the environment, you're experiencing it, for better or worse.
I don't know anything about the "cool factor". But I do know that the feeling with doors off is different than doors on. And it's a satisfying feeling that's hard to replicate otherwise.
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Looks like a Wrangler and a Renegade had a baby.
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Looks like a Wrangler and a Renegade had a baby.
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109454303_10157103236971288_3531992983833972223_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=iPOSsW5CgfUAX97QmM4&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=9543f0c7a5f89aecd7cefa435e63ffef&oe=5F33BFAC)
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Ha! Evidence!
The Renegade is as curvy/bubbly as the FJ, so I'll take it.
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I think they look pretty cool, certainly reminiscent of the old-school original 60s/early 70s Broncos. I'd be tempted to get one in a couple of years, after they have time to work out the kinks that often affect brand-new models.
I'd REALLY be tempted to get one if they put the 3.5L twin turbo engine in it, but they're not that dumb. :)
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Speaking of potentially being dumb, rumors abound that Jeep is going to be putting Dodge's 392 Hemi V8 in Wranglers in the near future. That seems wildly unsafe... and awesome!
(https://the-drive.imgix.net/https%3A%2F%2Fapi.thedrive.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F07%2F20200713-Jeep-Wrangler-Rubicon-392-Hero.jpg%3Fquality%3D85?w=1440&auto=compress%2Cformat&ixlib=js-1.4.1&s=f0b3dc71f319a051236b36d7c1e599af)
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Oh and here's a pic of our new Jeep from a couple weeks ago, nekkid!
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/106095096_10207343975794123_6729678625889686249_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=OQ1Cx8505voAX_n7rjW&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=61c2e22a5919eedf72a05fb35338dc75&oe=5F34011E)
(Sadly it does NOT have a 6.4L V8, just the standard 3.6L V6)
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It was very fun having a lifted V8 ZJ, as inefficient as it was. I could always just power through - never got stuck in a variety of very hair situations.
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It was very fun having a lifted V8 ZJ, as inefficient as it was. I could always just power through - never got stuck in a variety of very hair situations.
Yeah you're definitely not buying and driving any of these vehicles for the sake of efficiency. The JK consumes a tank of gas per week on a good week.
But we've already taken it rock-crawling a few times now, and even with only the slightly lifted factory suspension that comes standard with the Rubicon package, and standard Rubicon 33" Mud Terrain tires, it's remarkable how easily it handles some very technical trails and obstacles. Having the automatic push-button lockers and push-button sway bar disconnect is pretty freaking awesome. I think our next mod will be on-board air so that we can air down and air back up really quickly.
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Speaking of potentially being dumb, rumors abound that Jeep is going to be putting Dodge's 392 Hemi V8 in Wranglers in the near future. That seems wildly unsafe... and awesome!
(https://the-drive.imgix.net/https%3A%2F%2Fapi.thedrive.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F07%2F20200713-Jeep-Wrangler-Rubicon-392-Hero.jpg%3Fquality%3D85?w=1440&auto=compress%2Cformat&ixlib=js-1.4.1&s=f0b3dc71f319a051236b36d7c1e599af)
Is it just me... Or do the front and rear tires not match? Something about that looks very, very wrong.
But yeah... Wildly unsafe. And awesome.
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Having the automatic push-button lockers and push-button sway bar disconnect is pretty freaking awesome. I think our next mod will be on-board air so that we can air down and air back up really quickly.
This part is incredible, and may take the fun/challenge out of it. It's only exhilirating if there's some risk involved.
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I can see it if I lived a bit out in the boonies. Which I don't. I live in in the boonies. What are boonies anyway?
I think the GTI is a near ideal "city car". It has decent room, it's maneuverable, it's fairly small, it has good acceleration, it handles well, the doors don't come off (easily) not would I want them to (normally).
I keep noting that none of "us" generally can drive a C8 Corvette et al, at anything like its capabilities, so why have them?
Get a fun car, one with no doors maybe.
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Yeah you're definitely not buying and driving any of these vehicles for the sake of efficiency. The JK consumes a tank of gas per week on a good week.
But we've already taken it rock-crawling a few times now, and even with only the slightly lifted factory suspension that comes standard with the Rubicon package, and standard Rubicon 33" Mud Terrain tires, it's remarkable how easily it handles some very technical trails and obstacles. Having the automatic push-button lockers and push-button sway bar disconnect is pretty freaking awesome. I think our next mod will be on-board air so that we can air down and air back up really quickly.
I want to lift it and go to 35s. My Rubicon was a 2009 with 32s. Also want to replace the front/rear bumpers and fender flares.
I don't need a giant light bar on mine, since I live in California instead of Texas, and it's illegal here to drive on the beach anyway...
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That Hemi term strikes me as pure marketing, fairly successful I think.
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I can see it if I lived a bit out in the boonies. Which I don't. I live in in the boonies. What are boonies anyway?
I think the GTI is a near ideal "city car". It has decent room, it's maneuverable, it's fairly small, it has good acceleration, it handles well, the doors don't come off (easily) not would I want them to (normally).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks)
The expression was introduced to English (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English) by U.S. military (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military) personnel fighting in the Philippine–American War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine–American_War) (1899-1902).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-3)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-kramer-4) It derives from the Tagalog (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagalog_language) word "bundók",[note 1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-5) which means "mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain)".[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-6)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-brock-7)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-bunduk-8) According to military historian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_historian) Paul A. Kramer, the term originally had "connotations of bewilderment and confusion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusion)", due to the guerrilla warfare (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare) in which the soldiers were engaged.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-kramer-4)
In the Philippines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines), the word bundók is also a colloquialism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloquialism) referring to rural inland areas, which are usually mountainous and difficult to access, as most major cities and settlements in the Philippines are located in lowlands or near the coastline.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-brock-7) Equivalent terms include the Spanish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language)-derived probinsiya ("province") and the Cebuano (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cebuano_language) term bukid ("mountain").[note 2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-9)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-10)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-bukij-11) When used generally, the term refers to a rustic or uncivilized area. When referring to people (taga-bundok or probinsiyano in Tagalog; taga-bukid in Cebuano; English: "someone who comes from the mountains/provinces"), it acquires a derogatory connotation of a stereotype (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype) of unsophisticated, ignorant, and illiterate country people.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-12)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boondocks#cite_note-12)Oddly enough, I actually live in a pretty good place for a Jeep. We have a lot of open fire roads in the mountains here. I don't have to drive very far from my house to get access to national park fire roads. It's not exactly "rock crawling", and you don't need a serious Jeep to do it, but it's a fun little outing.
For as much as people complain about SoCal being crowded, it doesn't actually take all that much effort to find pretty empty hiking trails or off-roading territory.
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I want to lift it and go to 35s. My Rubicon was a 2009 with 32s. Also want to replace the front/rear bumpers and fender flares.
I don't need a giant light bar on mine, since I live in California instead of Texas, and it's illegal here to drive on the beach anyway...
Yeah I have no plans of putting massive light bars on ours, either. Maybe a couple of old-school KC daylighters down on the bumper-mounted push bar, right over the winch. But that would really just be for emergency night-time maneuvering, rather than any serious night-running on the beach or trails.
And I could see us someday lifting this one a bit more and going to 35s. But I prefer the look of the factory fenders flares though, over all of the aftermarket ones I've seen, so we'll leave those alone.
Next mods are probably onboard air, a softtop that converts all the way down, and a new metal powdercoated rear bumper to match the front bumper I put on a month ago.
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That Hemi term strikes me as pure marketing, fairly successful I think.
Could be? I don't worry too much about marketing terms, but regardless of what it's called, it would be 6.4L V8 fitted into a fairly small, light vehicle with a high center of gravity and a relatively short wheelbase. That spells all kinds of disaster, but what glorious carnage it could be. :)
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But I prefer the look of the factory fenders flares though, over all of the aftermarket ones I've seen, so we'll leave those alone.
If they start showing severe fade due to sun damage, there's an easy and cheap fix--a heat gun.
My fender flares and the bumpers were basically turning not only gray, but almost white in areas. I bought a $15 heat gun from Harbor Freight or Amazon (or wherever--I don't remember) and with light application it turned everything back to black. You're effectively re-melting the plastic, so you need a light hand and can't leave the heat gun over one area too long, but it works.
That said, I don't really like the look of the stock ones so I want something more minimalist.
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A modern 6.4 L V-8 will have a lot of HP and torque without being called a "hemi", which basically says it has an antiquated valve design, but not really.
The Chevy 6.2 L can produce 495 hp in the new Vette. They don't call it a "Hemi", and it also is an antiquated valve design.
The Z06 is supposedly going to be a smaller 5.5 L DOHC flat plane crank modern design with more power.
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Could be? I don't worry too much about marketing terms, but regardless of what it's called, it would be 6.4L V8 fitted into a fairly small, light vehicle with a high center of gravity and a relatively short wheelbase. That spells all kinds of disaster, but what glorious carnage it could be. :)
Light? Even a 2-door 2020 Wrangler Rubicon is a >2-ton vehicle...
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If they start showing severe fade due to sun damage, there's an easy and cheap fix--a heat gun.
My fender flares and the bumpers were basically turning not only gray, but almost white in areas. I bought a $15 heat gun from Harbor Freight or Amazon (or wherever--I don't remember) and with light application it turned everything back to black. You're effectively re-melting the plastic, so you need a light hand and can't leave the heat gun over one area too long, but it works.
That said, I don't really like the look of the stock ones so I want something more minimalist.
Cool, I have a heat gun leftover from many electrical wiring projects over the years, so I might try that if necessary. My 2005 Tahoe fenders would fade a bit, but the black trim restorer I used always brought it right back and would last for another 6 months or so. Forget which brand, it might be the Meguiars or it might be the Mother's version. Or maybe something else. My brother gave me a bunch of it when he sold his late 90s XTerra that also suffered from trim fade.
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Ever try naphtha? Used to work well on my Porsche and Volvo bumpers that would fade.
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Light? Even a 2-door 2020 Wrangler Rubicon is a >2-ton vehicle...
Well, my 2017 JKU is lighter than my 2015 F150, so maybe that's what I'm talking about. :)
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33310201/2021-ford-bronco-vs-jeep-wrangler-specs-compared/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR01M9K5l_PBo230fIFdpbYBhOnzaJBezIpjvjaZcXRQu3bDap1g3HetL8E (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33310201/2021-ford-bronco-vs-jeep-wrangler-specs-compared/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR01M9K5l_PBo230fIFdpbYBhOnzaJBezIpjvjaZcXRQu3bDap1g3HetL8E)
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33310201/2021-ford-bronco-vs-jeep-wrangler-specs-compared/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR01M9K5l_PBo230fIFdpbYBhOnzaJBezIpjvjaZcXRQu3bDap1g3HetL8E (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33310201/2021-ford-bronco-vs-jeep-wrangler-specs-compared/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR01M9K5l_PBo230fIFdpbYBhOnzaJBezIpjvjaZcXRQu3bDap1g3HetL8E)
Yeah, Ford quite obviously looked closely at the Jeep Wrangler's specs and targeted them to match (or slightly exceed in upper trim packages).
But the Jeep has a solid front axle and the Ford has IFS, and for a lot of heavy duty rock-crawlers that's a deal-breaker.
But for overlanding, the Bronco is likely better set-up even in their base packages.
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Hmm, the approach and departure angles go Jeep....seems like only the top-of-the-line Sasquatch Bronco compares. That's what I look at mostly.
A 7-speed manual would be weird....I wonder how often I'd forget I had a 6th and 7th gear, lol.
Ah, Bilsteins....I went through a few of those on the Rez. I don't like rock-crawling, I liked exploring and going fast off-road. More like baja-style I guess.
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Yeah, Ford quite obviously looked closely at the Jeep Wrangler's specs and targeted them to match (or slightly exceed in upper trim packages).
But the Jeep has a solid front axle and the Ford has IFS, and for a lot of heavy duty rock-crawlers that's a deal-breaker.
But for overlanding, the Bronco is likely better set-up even in their base packages.
Good summary I think.
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Hmm, the approach and departure angles go Jeep....seems like only the top-of-the-line Sasquatch Bronco compares. That's what I look at mostly.
A 7-speed manual would be weird....I wonder how often I'd forget I had a 6th and 7th gear, lol.
Ah, Bilsteins....I went through a few of those on the Rez. I don't like rock-crawling, I liked exploring and going fast off-road. More like baja-style I guess.
Good summary I think.
I think the competition in the segment is going to be really good for consumers, ultimately. To date, Jeep has really been able to dictate the market and tell its customers what they can, and can't, have. The customers are now going to have a little more power in the relationship.
I've always liked the old vintage 60s/70s Broncos and, although the new one is updated and "bubbly" as OAM pointed out (and I totally agree), it still has enough lines reminiscent of the original, to evoke my nostalgia-feelers. :)
One other thing that sets Jeep apart is the MASSIVE aftermarket for optional equipment. Decades upon decades of available tweaks have allowed customers to customize almost infinitely, and the consumers in this market segment are going to still have that expectation, even though the Ford is brand-new. How committed is Ford to the segment? How long do they want to stick around? That will have some determination on how many aftermarket 3rd party companies are willing to invest money into creating aftermarket products for the Bronco platform.
Should be lots of fun to watch it all play out.
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I keep noting that none of "us" generally can drive a C8 Corvette et al, at anything like its capabilities, so why have them?
Get a fun car, one with no doors maybe.
even way below it's capabilities, the C8 I think would be fun to drive
over kill, absolutely ............ fun, absolutely
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https://www.automobilemag.com/news/1963-chevrolet-corvette-z06-rare-big-tank-profile/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR02kAGnHzfuALH7cBNd2-dqSi4J4FoXh-_iHxJ60tj63lxlOhBfH-08YI8 (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/1963-chevrolet-corvette-z06-rare-big-tank-profile/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR02kAGnHzfuALH7cBNd2-dqSi4J4FoXh-_iHxJ60tj63lxlOhBfH-08YI8)
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/03/the-story-behind-the-1963-chevrolet-corvette-z06/ (https://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/03/the-story-behind-the-1963-chevrolet-corvette-z06/)
(https://i.imgur.com/QLrxo1o.png)
The Z06 was released to the public during the debut of the ’63 split-window Corvette, allowing enthusiasts track-ready enjoyment and impeccable style immediately after purchase. With the exclusive Z06 package came the arrival of many racing-derived parts such as massive cooled disc brakes, heavy-duty suspension and, in traditional motorsport fashion, a gargantuan 36.5 gallon fuel tank.
But of course, the masterpiece would not be complete without the absolutely phenomenal 327 small-block V8. Producing 360 hp and 352 lbs-ft. of torque, the Z06 hit 60 MPH in an impressive 5.9 seconds, giving drivers instantly competitive performance the moment they turned the key.
Truth be told though, the racing-spec Corvette was far from cheap, debuting with a base price nearly $800 dollars more than the mighty Jaguar E-Type. Likely due to the racing nature of the car and GM’s willingness to eschew sanctioned racing, the Z06 option was not even listed in the brochures. In the end, a total of 199 Z06-optioned Corvettes were produced, making the ’63 one very rare machine.
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20 mpg?
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Maybe, was that claimed?
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no idea, huge tank
my 70 nova with the 300hp 350 got about 20mpg - 411 gears - 60mph was turning around 3,000 rpm if I remember 1980 properly
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Depending on speed, with FI, it might get 20 mpg at 60 mph. The rear ratio is not 4.11.
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https://jalopnik.com/an-extremely-detailed-look-into-the-ford-broncos-engine-1844389830 (https://jalopnik.com/an-extremely-detailed-look-into-the-ford-broncos-engine-1844389830)
Interesting breakdown...
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https://jalopnik.com/an-extremely-detailed-look-into-the-ford-broncos-engine-1844389830 (https://jalopnik.com/an-extremely-detailed-look-into-the-ford-broncos-engine-1844389830)
Interesting breakdown...
Yeah, lots of fun technical goodies in there.
Jeep owners on the forums I peruse are actually pretty excited about the Bronco. It looks pretty cool, appears to be a legitimate offroad vehicle in a way the FJ Cruiser only ever played at, and will likely create more competition in the market space, which is inevitably a good thing for consumers.
In a few years when the new-model-ness is gone and we have the discretionary income, I'd certainly consider getting one, just for fun.
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I think those qualify as being "sporty" in a sense, off roading is sporty, and driving with no doors is probably interesting even around town. Maybe.
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Big 30-car barn find on a 550-acre farm in Minnesota.
https://www.facebook.com/DennisCollins/videos/290796555295460/ (https://www.facebook.com/DennisCollins/videos/290796555295460/)
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Geesh, one wonders just who the grandkids can somehow forget that gandpa stored all these old cars in the barn.
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grandpa didn't want those kids messing with his collection
told them there was a pack of wolves living in the barn
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https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/z06-teaser-c8-corvette/ (https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/z06-teaser-c8-corvette/)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1417128706204704769
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Wow nice necrobump. Exactly one year to the day.
Did you plan that?
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no, but perhaps Chevy did?
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The Toyota Supra is pretty sharp.
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how does it sound? ;)
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The Supra is nice looking but doesn't sound great.
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3.0L inline 6
probably a great motor, but......
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3.0L inline 6
probably a great motor, but......
It can be made to be extremely powerful, and cheaply 😎
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and it can sound "different" with a fart can muffler
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s600x600/244667218_3093098290975189_8315404607544220626_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ozZx4de8rEsAX_oGNSB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=8ba3cbf23d2cf2d88798807f16fa4f6a&oe=618E00A8)
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(https://i.imgur.com/z5FDOCp.jpg)
Sporty?
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too many doors
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Performance-wise, a lot of cars these days are "sporty". They accelerate, brake, and handle better than supercars of the 80s. And they're comfortable and reliable.
But no, I don't call that "sporty". It's a performance sedan. And that's not because it's a Kia--I feel the same way about an M5 or a Panamera or a Tesla Model S Plaid, all which have performance numbers that are eye-popping.
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My posse. All capable of 11.5 1/4 mile and ripping through the twisties.
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Quattro
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My posse. All capable of 11.5 1/4 mile and ripping through the twisties.
I was choosing between the Durango and the Flex. They didn't have the SRT yet, just the R/T. I really liked the R/T in slate gray and it was probably my preference.
I ended up with the Flex. I couldn't find a used R/T nearly anywhere of the right vintage (when they changed to the newer trans), all in black, and they were all significantly more expensive than the Flex with the options I wanted, so I got the Flex.
It's not capable of an 11.5 1/4 mi and it's a pig through the twisties, but it's comfortable and functional, so I'm happy.
The other vehicle is the Jeep, which is also slow and handles like trash, but that's not what it's for. It'll go places that the Durango couldn't dream of lol.
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I was choosing between the Durango and the Flex. They didn't have the SRT yet, just the R/T. I really liked the R/T in slate gray and it was probably my preference.
I ended up with the Flex. I couldn't find a used R/T nearly anywhere of the right vintage (when they changed to the newer trans), all in black, and they were all significantly more expensive than the Flex with the options I wanted, so I got the Flex.
It's not capable of an 11.5 1/4 mi and it's a pig through the twisties, but it's comfortable and functional, so I'm happy.
The other vehicle is the Jeep, which is also slow and handles like trash, but that's not what it's for. It'll go places that the Durango couldn't dream of lol.
What motor did you get in the Flex?
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Performance-wise, a lot of cars these days are "sporty". They accelerate, brake, and handle better than supercars of the 80s. And they're comfortable and reliable.
But no, I don't call that "sporty". It's a performance sedan. And that's not because it's a Kia--I feel the same way about an M5 or a Panamera or a Tesla Model S Plaid, all which have performance numbers that are eye-popping.
I don't disagree. That's why this thread exists.
The flip side is that there are "sporty" cars, that aren't quick or good-handling at all.
Perhaps the Stinger and the like could be called "sporty sedans."
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You can buy this one for a great discount. Normal price is $3 Million. This one is $345K. Needs some touching up.
(https://i.imgur.com/VkRE2uS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pE5a7P5.jpg)
Singer's burned $3 million Bugatti listed at a discount price on auction site | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/singers-burned-3-million-bugatti-for-sale)
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90% off, that's a heck of a deal
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So my hatchback with 38K miles on it spent over 3 weeks at the dealership with a transmission issue last month.
Didn't pay anything. Waited for forever for a part to come in.
Then yesterday, leaving work, I put it in R, but it stays in N. Super fun. About 30 seconds later and shifting through all the gears, it works.
I call the dealership to ask their opinion, and they're like "the new part (PCM?) could just be bad."
It's just especially frustrating when the part I had to wait so long for could just be "bad."
I was aware of the problem with earlier Focus models, but whatever. If I get another loaner car, I'm not getting that enormous van again.
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So my hatchback with 38K miles on it spent over 3 weeks at the dealership with a transmission issue last month.
Didn't pay anything. Waited for forever for a part to come in.
Then yesterday, leaving work, I put it in R, but it stays in N. Super fun. About 30 seconds later and shifting through all the gears, it works.
I call the dealership to ask their opinion, and they're like "the new part (PCM?) could just be bad."
It's just especially frustrating when the part I had to wait so long for could just be "bad."
I was aware of the problem with earlier Focus models, but whatever. If I get another loaner car, I'm not getting that enormous van again.
Is that new problem the same as it was before they fix it or some thing different with the transmission?
I only ask because if it’s the PCM, which is basically the cars “brain” it seems highly unlikely that that’s the issue if the problem is the same.
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What motor did you get in the Flex?
The standard. I didn't go EcoBoost.
I only wanted the R/T in the Durango, but I actually was fine with the standard non-EcoBoost motor in the Flex. I realize that's a bit odd.
The rationale was that a Dodge Durango is a much more "mainstream" style of vehicle, so having the R/T would actually stand out a little bit more. On the Flex, it's already a distinctive vehicle by its nature, so I didn't really feel like it needed the EcoBoost AWD version. I'd also read of issues with the torque converter on the AWD EcoBoost Flex models that I didn't want to deal with.
Obviously I love having the acceleration and power on tap, but I was more willing to pay for it if I found the right vehicle in the Durango, but not willing to pay for it in the Flex.
BTW the standard motor is 265 hp, which sounds like a lot. But it's due to variable valve timing that only is invoked at RPM ranges I almost never touch. In a vehicle this big, the standard motor is a bit of a dog if you're not putting your foot to the floorboard.
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Performance-wise, a lot of cars these days are "sporty". They accelerate, brake, and handle better than supercars of the 80s.
While true, this is also sorta cherry-picking. When I was a kid I was a HUGE fan of Corvettes so I know some of the information for them, I'll use them for an example. Base-Maximum available Corvette HP:
- 1966: 300-425 (427)
- 1967: 300-435 (427 with a six pack)
- 1968: 300-560 (427 with 12.5:1 pistons and an ENORMOUS 850cfm Holley four-barrel)
- 1969: 300-435 (but this was HIGHLY conservative 427 with 850cfm Holley four-barrel)
- 1970: 300-465 (454 with 800cfm Holley four-barrel)
- 1971: 270-425 (454)
- 1972: 200-270 (454)
- 1973: 180-275 (454)
- 1974: 195-270 (454)
- 1975: 165-205 (350 until otherwise noted)
- 1976: 180-210
- 1977: 180-210
- 1978: 175-220
- 1979: 195-225
- 1980: 180-230
- 1981: 190
- 1982: 180-230
- 1983: N/A, Due to introduction of the C4 (1984-1996) and a labor issue there were no 1983 Corvettes they ran the 1982's late and started the 1984's early.
- 1984: 205
- 1985: 230
- 1986: 230
- 1987: 240
- 1988: 240-382 (Callaway Twin-Turbo)
- 1989: 240-382 (Callaway Twin-Turbo)
- 1990: 240-375 (ZR1)
Horsepower just plummeted with the implementation of EPA mandated Pollution Controls and CAFE standards in the early 1970's and it took about two decades to recover. From 1966 (at least, I didn't look farther back) until 1970 you couldn't get a Corvette with less than 300 HP and starting in 1972 you couldn't get one with more than 300 HP until the introduction of the Callaway Twin-Turbo and then the DOHC ZR1 almost 20 years later in 1988 and 1990 respectively.
For the Corvette power bottomed out in 1975 when the base model had an anemic 165 HP and even the high performance optioned cars only made barely over 200 HP. You can buy a minivan today with power in that range.
Note that this was not just a Corvette, just a Chevrolet, or even just a US Automaker issue. When the 382 HP Callaway Twin-turbo Corvette was tested by Car and Driver in 1989 they stated that the "staggering" 382 HP was "more power than any U.S. spec model currently sold by Ferrari or Porsche. In fact, we know of only one U.S. market car that can top the Callaway's formidable power rating: the Lamborghini Countach, which belts out 425 hp."
So as of 1989 the two most powerful cars available in America put out 425 and 382 HP and they were incredibly expensive. The Callaway Twin-Turbo was a $26k option on a car with a base price of ~$31k. Ie it roughly doubled the price of the car. Meanwhile the Countach was about three-times as expensive as the Callaway Twin-Turbo 'Vette at $145k. For comparison in 1968 a base Corvette was $4,320 (convertible) or $4,663 (coupe) and you could get a 400+HP big-block for as little as just over $300.
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The way hp was rated changed in 1972 to SAE net, which gave a lower value for same engine.
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The standard. I didn't go EcoBoost.
I only wanted the R/T in the Durango, but I actually was fine with the standard non-EcoBoost motor in the Flex. I realize that's a bit odd.
The rationale was that a Dodge Durango is a much more "mainstream" style of vehicle, so having the R/T would actually stand out a little bit more. On the Flex, it's already a distinctive vehicle by its nature, so I didn't really feel like it needed the EcoBoost AWD version. I'd also read of issues with the torque converter on the AWD EcoBoost Flex models that I didn't want to deal with.
Obviously I love having the acceleration and power on tap, but I was more willing to pay for it if I found the right vehicle in the Durango, but not willing to pay for it in the Flex.
BTW the standard motor is 265 hp, which sounds like a lot. But it's due to variable valve timing that only is invoked at RPM ranges I almost never touch. In a vehicle this big, the standard motor is a bit of a dog if you're not putting your foot to the floorboard.
That makes sense. Every vehicle has its appeal- it doesn’t have to be HP.
drove my neighbors Flex- liked it.
had a 2014 Durango R/T. Loved it. Then they came out with the SRT Durango, so I traded up for that. A 2018. Loved that even more. Then they came
out with the Hellcat Durango- for 21, so traded up for that. Great vehicle, nice luxurious SUV until you put the hammer down. Then….insanity lol.
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daughter has the eco-boost Flex
not AWD but she likes it
I tried to explain the "boost" to her - don't think it was productive
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daughter has the eco-boost Flex
not AWD but she likes it
I tried to explain the "boost" to her - don't think it was productive
😂😂
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That makes sense. Every vehicle has its appeal- it doesn’t have to be HP.
drove my neighbors Flex- liked it.
had a 2014 Durango R/T. Loved it. Then they came out with the SRT Durango, so I traded up for that. A 2018. Loved that even more. Then they came
out with the Hellcat Durango- for 21, so traded up for that. Great vehicle, nice luxurious SUV until you put the hammer down. Then….insanity lol.
I bought my Ranger in early 2003. Kept it until late 2012--wouldn't have even sold it then but, ya know, kids. Something just wasn't safe about putting a young child in the sideways fold-down rear seat, ya know.
From there I got my Jeep in Aug 2012. The goal was to have a vehicle that would allow me to at least 2 kids safely if I needed to, but to have the responsible family vehicle (Honda Odyssey) otherwise.
Then in 2016 I got divorced, and suddenly the family minivan left with my ex-wife. By early 2017, it was time for a bigger car, so I got the Flex and kept the Jeep.
So I had my Ranger almost 10 years. I've now had the Jeep 9 years without any plans to sell. I've had the Flex 4 years and I'm hoping for another 6.
I'm not the type to trade up after 3 years lol...
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I bought my Ranger in early 2003. Kept it until late 2012--wouldn't have even sold it then but, ya know, kids. Something just wasn't safe about putting a young child in the sideways fold-down rear seat, ya know.
From there I got my Jeep in Aug 2012. The goal was to have a vehicle that would allow me to at least 2 kids safely if I needed to, but to have the responsible family vehicle (Honda Odyssey) otherwise.
Then in 2016 I got divorced, and suddenly the family minivan left with my ex-wife. By early 2017, it was time for a bigger car, so I got the Flex and kept the Jeep.
So I had my Ranger almost 10 years. I've now had the Jeep 9 years without any plans to sell. I've had the Flex 4 years and I'm hoping for another 6.
I'm not the type to trade up after 3 years lol...
That’s because you have a brain, and unlike me you don’t have a weakness for cars.
that’s my only one- but it is a big one.
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Is that new problem the same as it was before they fix it or some thing different with the transmission?
I only ask because if it’s the PCM, which is basically the cars “brain” it seems highly unlikely that that’s the issue if the problem is the same.
It's not the same - intiially it was jerky driving to work. This time it's just not shifting properly. It usually does, but there's no reason for me to deal with that problem after they've already worked on it.
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The way hp was rated changed in 1972 to SAE net, which gave a lower value for same engine.
That only explains a small portion of the drop from 500+ HP late-60's Vette's to ~200 HP mid-70's Vette's. You can use 1/4 mi times instead of HP figures if you want but the gist is the same as I laid out.
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Coming in 2022:
(https://i.imgur.com/hHRcdEZ.png)
Not to my garage, of course. $2.5 Million. Ouch.
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no room for golf clubs in that thing
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New Bronco’s not getting off to a good start. Their are several reports of this happening now. Ford design didn’t do their homework.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/246629152_10227014837698070_1011304506984188144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=rQN2eay_SnoAX8CCR2p&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=4818085bcea377f1afe3be598b9faf0d&oe=6196E92D)
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That only explains a small portion of the drop from 500+ HP late-60's Vette's to ~200 HP mid-70's Vette's. You can use 1/4 mi times instead of HP figures if you want but the gist is the same as I laid out.
There certainly was a dramatic drop in real horsepower aside from the change to SAE Net. But those earlier 500 hp figures would be more like 350 using SAE Net. The older ratings would use an engine with no accessories.
I had a 73 Nova with SAE Net 185 hp, the year before the rating was 285 gross, but there was 10 hp subtracted for the AIR pump. So, the rating change went from 275 to 185.
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New Bronco’s not getting off to a good start. Their are several reports of this happening now. Ford design didn’t do their homework.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/246629152_10227014837698070_1011304506984188144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=rQN2eay_SnoAX8CCR2p&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=4818085bcea377f1afe3be598b9faf0d&oe=6196E92D)
That looks... unfortunate.
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looks like a Ford ;)
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There were several changes that affected the HP. Of course the change in rating makes the comparison look wonky but the actual HP did change a lot as emissions controls took over. Using the L48 engine that was available in the Chevy Nova as an example. In 1970 the HP was 300 and compression ration was 10.25:1. In 1971 the compression ratio was dropped to 8.5 and HP to 270. In 1972 they changed to SAE rating which was 200 hp without much change in the engine itself. In 1973 the HP dropped to 175 mostly due to the retarded timing, AIR pump, and EGR used to drop the combustion temperatures. The last year for the L48 was 1974 when it was rated at 185 and future cars had Cat converters and were unleaded gas only.
The decrease in octane and lead content in gasoline was the major factor in dropping compression ratios. In 1970 Sunoco 120 octane was $0.25 per gallon in eastern Oklahoma.
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1973 was not a good year for sporty cars
1970 was the top
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1973 was the first year for the AIR pump, and compression ratios were being lowered because of UNL gasoline. It still was better than the latter 70s and early 80s. Back then you had a fast car if it could break 10 seconds getting 0-60. I recall my Nova did it in 8.5 seconds, my little GTI today is around 6 seconds.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/p526x296/247481819_1211221366023469_3079281972327741546_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zhJGfM8aVYoAX8IHafR&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=be6f6244e197d67801ad64f50837ea6e&oe=619B4D3A)
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https://www.chevrolet.com/upcoming-vehicles/2023-corvette-z06 (https://www.chevrolet.com/upcoming-vehicles/2023-corvette-z06)
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Flat-Plane Crank DOHC LT6 to Power the 2023 Corvette Z06! Details and Specs
It revs to 8,600 rpm, churns out 670 hp, and will power the new Corvette C8 Z06 supercar! Who will be the first to swap one into a classic hot rod?
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/lt6-engine-2023-corvette-z06-details/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%20Manual&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3KwtJMFkCDvmN3MRiF5FcfAByU3FkanhCBO7WnGns-dPro_jl-k4Wz5lo (https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/lt6-engine-2023-corvette-z06-details/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem Manual&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3KwtJMFkCDvmN3MRiF5FcfAByU3FkanhCBO7WnGns-dPro_jl-k4Wz5lo)
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That would make a neat crate engine. I'd put it in a Miata.
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might want to upgrade the tranny
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That would make a neat crate engine. I'd put it in a Miata.
Even if you can fit it, that would be terrible. It would be undrivable, not fun at all.
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Of course it would be horrible in a Miata, but silly folks do stuff like that.
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1958 Pontiac Bonneville
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/251166195_10220437350790202_889634819470221441_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=DgHIflYCMhMAX_oAOD_&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=7c559a172c4c100a9f590ef9882ce9f9&oe=61907880)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p526x296/254516369_1025528984846307_5876341370678306783_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=UzGyCv577fgAX9Avzj6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=865ca534f01821116a1928a9b1aba16d&oe=61918AF8)
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Lawson's Motor Wheel, 1902
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s600x600/256138510_6345911485479062_6724210528462282510_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=cv0CvHvjG1AAX8cQmI5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=b87ce93a2978dd895c9d4e962ab87bde&oe=6192FE99)
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2022 BMW X3M Competition
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2023 Corvette Z06 Sprints To 60 MPH In 2.6 Seconds, Runs The Quarter-Mile In 10.6 Seconds | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/2023-corvette-z06-sprints-to-60-mph-in-2-6-seconds-runs-the-quarter-mile-in-10-6-seconds/#Echobox=1636405543)
So much emphasis on raw acceleration numbers on "supercars" these days. How much fun they are to drive is often absent.
A sporty car should be fun to drive, not just a dragster.
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if you read enough reviews from enough sources, some odd bloke will offer a line or two of text regarding driveability
I read or watched a video that some dude put together using a C7 for his daily driver, including driving in light snow.
Knot head!
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2023 Corvette Z06 Sprints To 60 MPH In 2.6 Seconds, Runs The Quarter-Mile In 10.6 Seconds | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/2023-corvette-z06-sprints-to-60-mph-in-2-6-seconds-runs-the-quarter-mile-in-10-6-seconds/#Echobox=1636405543)
So much emphasis on raw acceleration numbers on "supercars" these days. How much fun they are to drive is often absent.
A sporty car should be fun to drive, not just a dragster.
super impressive- and have to say I was not a fan of corvette but GM did an amazing job with the new one - and this right here is insane- the performance for the price might not be able to be beaten. Z06 is like $100k- to get a European sports car with that kind of performance- you're paying 3.5-4x the price minimum.
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we'll see how the Z06 engine does long term, but man, that thing is a beast!!!
perhaps they should drop it in a Cadillac?
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I assume it's far more than a straight line dragster. I'm sure it handles impeccably well.
Most drivers don't know how to corner, and you can't even approach its handling limit on public roads at legal speed, though, so 0-60 numbers sell cars better than skidpad speed or Nurburgring times.
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handling well on a track or at high speed on public roads is one thing
handling and riding well at average somewhat normal speeds when out for a drive to show off your sports car is something else
I asked my dealer about the Z51 PERFORMANCE PACKAGE on the C8 it's a $6,345 option.
Told him I wasn't going to the track and assume the car will perform well enough for me w/o the package.
the saleman said that it obviously "look" better and advised adding the package. you know, the Z51-specific front splitter and rear spoiler
HAH!
I assume for daily driving I wouldn't even enjoy a stiffer suspension
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Z51 PERFORMANCE PACKAGE - $6,345
Required for track use
Z51 performance Brembo® brakes
Z51 performance suspension
Performance exhaust
Performance rear axle ratio
Electronic Limited Slip Differential (eLSD)
Z51-specific front splitter and rear spoiler
Michelin® Pilot® Sport 4S 245/35ZR19 front and 305/30ZR20 rear, high performance, run-flat, summer-only tires1
Heavy-duty cooling system
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I doubt any supercar is "fun" to drive on the street, or comfortable.
I'd bet for most mere mortals, they're not even "fun" to drive on the track--I'll bet they're f$&%@g terrifying, to be honest.
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Cincydawg seems to have fun on the track in a Cadillac
but, he's no mere mortal
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I assume it's far more than a straight line dragster. I'm sure it handles impeccably well.
Most drivers don't know how to corner, and you can't even approach its handling limit on public roads at legal speed, though, so 0-60 numbers sell cars better than skidpad speed or Nurburgring times.
This is very true lol
I just replaced my 2021 hellcat Durango, with the BMW X3M competition package which I posted up thread.
I definitely think it’s not the right car for most people as a daily driver but for me, I do intend to track it occasionally. It has been constructed to drive right onto the track including the brakes, transmission and cooling.
https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/x3-m
as you can see they do talk about pure speed quite a bit, but also mention skid pad performance, breaking and athleticism of this vehicle which is pure fun to drive just in canyon carving and curvy roads.
But, I acknowledge it’s not for everyone and I agree that a lot of people driving a vehicle like this have no use for what it actually is capable of.
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sports cars are no different than luxury cars
no need for most folks to have all the bells, whistles, and other fancy luxury options
a simple Honda accord is plenty of vehicle for performance and luxury, but....... folks wanna show off
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sports cars are no different than luxury cars
no need for most folks to have all the bells, whistles, and other fancy luxury options
a simple Honda accord is plenty of vehicle for performance and luxury, but....... folks wanna show off
Ok. 😂😂.
some “folks“ actually enjoy real performance driving on a track and on a Lonesome hilly Canyon Road. Folks like me, who couldn’t care less what anyone else thinks. But a Honda accord just isn’t going to cut it lol. I will admit I am the minority though.
I always find it funny when someone assumes they know how everyone else is and everyone else thinks, or at least how they should think.
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I think you and some folks could really notice the difference between your new ride and a Honda accord, but as you know in the hands of a professional driver. The accord could be pretty close to the same times on a track and on a Lonesome hilly Canyon Road.
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I think you and some folks could really notice the difference between your new ride and a Honda accord, but as you know in the hands of a professional driver. The accord could be pretty close to the same times on a track and on a Lonesome hilly Canyon Road.
The 2022 Honda accord is nothing short of a brilliant car. Car and driver gave it a 10 out of 10 which is extremely rare. They noticed it’s perky acceleration, great balance between sporty handling and Comfort and I variety of other things. If all I was doing was driving from point a to point B every single day I would consider this car as good as they get especially for the money. That’s nothing new, they have always made an incredibly good vehicle.
But if you took it on a road course you would only last a lap or two because the brakes would fade so quickly they would be not be functional. It is not built to handle curves of that nature at high speeds with a very skilled driver let alone a professional driver. It pulled .86 on the skid pad which is respectable but really nothing to write home about.
It ran the 0 to 60 in 7.1 seconds in the quarter mile in 15.7 seconds. To put that in perspective, 1/10 of a second equals one car length in a quarter mile.
So in a quarter mile behind accord would be 40 car links behind a car that can run an 11.7 seconds
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That's all true.
But I still personally believe that someone should be taking a Mazda MX-5, one set up for track use, on the track for a few years before they try to do it with one of these supercar-capability vehicles.
The biggest issue with supercars is that their capability is so extreme that a driver will never learn how to handle what happens on the ragged edge until they're going so fast that they'll bin the damn thing the first time they cross that line.
A driver can turn in faster lap times with a Corvette at 85% than an MX-5 at 99.8%, but I'd say learning to drive that MX-5 at 99.8% is a hell of a lot more fun. And after doing that in an MX-5 for a couple years, they'll know how to drive that Corvette at 99%.
A buddy of mine always said that it's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.
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your normal driver can't get the MX-5 to 75%, can't get the vette to 60%
a top driver can take the MX-5 to 99% and beat the normal driver in the vette easily
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That's all true.
But I still personally believe that someone should be taking a Mazda MX-5, one set up for track use, on the track for a few years before they try to do it with one of these supercar-capability vehicles.
The biggest issue with supercars is that their capability is so extreme that a driver will never learn how to handle what happens on the ragged edge until they're going so fast that they'll bin the damn thing the first time they cross that line.
A driver can turn in faster lap times with a Corvette at 85% than an MX-5 at 99.8%, but I'd say learning to drive that MX-5 at 99.8% is a hell of a lot more fun. And after doing that in an MX-5 for a couple years, they'll know how to drive that Corvette at 99%.
A buddy of mine always said that it's a lot more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.
Agreed. So, if you already learned on a track with a slow car…….
we are people too lol
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your normal driver can't get the MX-5 to 75%, can't get the vette to 60%
a top driver can take the MX-5 to 99% and beat the normal driver in the vette easily
True that... Just saying that a less capable car will allow you to "explore the limits" in a much less lethal and scary way than a more capable car.
So whatever your personal ability is, you learn more with the less capable car and can apply it to the more capable car.
Agreed. So, if you already learned on a track with a slow car…….
we are people too lol
Yeah, I hear you. My track time is mostly motorcycle and go karts, rather than cars, but I've spent some time exploring the limits of traction in general lol.
Honestly most people who have reached an age at which they can afford these type of cars have spent a lot of time with shitty cars earlier in life. They've reached a level of age and wisdom because they spent so long being young and stupid :57:
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A fairly slow car can be quite entertaining to drive. I do appreciate torque in top gear though.
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your normal driver can't get the MX-5 to 75%, can't get the vette to 60%
a top driver can take the MX-5 to 99% and beat the normal driver in the vette easily
Depending on the course, I doubt this.
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your wife is probably much closer to my normal driver than you are
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Since its genesis in 1989, the MX-5 Miata has allowed millions to enjoy its unique brand of four-wheel entertainment. The current-generation MX-5, introduced in 2015, has somehow managed to hearken back to a time before high-calorie federal mandates. With the base roadster coming in at a svelte 2390 pounds, not only is it the lightest car on our list but arguably the most fun. 2019 saw the MX-5 receive a handful of upgrades, most notably a revamping of its 2.0-liter Skyactiv engine, which resulted in a sizeable jump from 155 to 181 horsepower. With its zero-to-60 time falling to 5.7 seconds, the Miata is finally as fun in a straight line as it is around corners.
and then the old man's car......
Prospective buyers looking to slip some horsepower past an unwitting spouse need look no further than the 2020 Buick Regal Sportback. Despite its pedestrian-grade exterior, our testing revealed sleeper-grade performance with a front-wheel-drive example reaching 60 mph in just 5.6 seconds. Under the Sportback’s hood lies a 250-hp turbo four. The faux-upscale sedan comes standard with a nine-speed auto for the front-wheel-drive model
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Depending on the course, I doubt this.
I used to do track days on a Suzuki SV650S, a 650cc V-twin bike making about 66 hp.
Guys riding 600cc supersport-class bikes were on better suspensions, with 100+ hp high-revving I4 engines, on bikes built for racing.
Guys riding 1000cc superbike-class bikes were the cream of the crop, with 160+ hp in some cases, on bikes also built for racing.
I can't tell you how many times a guy on one of those bikes might blow by me at 140 mph on the front straight as I'm wringing 100-115 out as fast as my bike will let me, and then I'd catch him by turn 4-5 and pass him a few turns later. And skill-wise, I'm what I would describe as "quick", not what I'd describe as "fast". There were guys in my SV650 rider club who would flat out smoke me on the track. The legit race guys would pass me (on the same bike I rode) and be gone in 3 turns. Hell, I remember the time a kid (and I mean like 13-year-old kid) on an Aprilia RS250 who was a junior racer left me in the dust like I was standing still.
A great driver in an MX-5 will lap faster than a "normal" driver in a Vette any day of the week.
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yup
I used to swap guys bikes back in the day, cause they said my bike was just faster, then beat them with their slower bike.
1/4 mile, in the turns, whatever
most riders aren't going to scrape foot pegs regardless of bike
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I think a Corvette at say COTA would beat an MX-5 handily. There is too much power, gaining in the turns wouldn't be enough. This presumes both had some time on the course for familiarization.
And I have a healthy respect for pro drivers, I've seen it in person.
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I think a Corvette at say COTA would beat an MX-5 handily. There is too much power, gaining in the turns wouldn't be enough. This presumes both had some time on the course for familiarization.
And I have a healthy respect for pro drivers, I've seen it in person.
LONG straights at COTA so yeah, I agree with you there.
It's been interesting watching all of the different racing series out there on the same world-class track. I've seen Formula 1, Indycar, F4, NASCAR, MotoGP, Aussie V8s, sportscars, Porsche Cup Series, Lamborghini Cup Series, probably a few I'm forgetting.
F1 dominates lap time due to high power in the straights, but also the incredible downforce in the corners. The motorcycles are faster on the straights but CRAZILY slow on the turns. Indycars impressed me with their performance, given that they're a spec series that's MUCH cheaper to operate than F1.
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motorscooters don't corner well a tall
hard to get them to drift properly
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As I noted before, I've driven a CTS-V at COTA. My wife was riding along with the instructor in the car ahead of me. I was doing all I could to keep up and the driver, she told me, was driving with one hand and talking on the walkie talkie with the other. I KNOW in the same car any of those drivers would have left me in dust, mostly on the turns and braking. But I was going a LOT faster in that V than anyone could in an MX-5.
I have a long ingrained idea of being easy on cars so they last longer, it took me a while to realize I should hammer the S out of that Caddy. They changed the brake pads AND tires after each day's driving. The tires are around $500 per. We also did a tight gymkhana course and had significant differences between the students, and they had an instructor visiting who had never driven that course before who beat all of us. Handily. But it was a very tight course.
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I think a Corvette at say COTA would beat an MX-5 handily. There is too much power, gaining in the turns wouldn't be enough. This presumes both had some time on the course for familiarization.
And I have a healthy respect for pro drivers, I've seen it in person.
I suppose we'd have to clarify exactly what is meant by a "normal" driver.
Here's a comparison between a race driver and a car magazine editor with a lot of performance driving and track time due to his job:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/car-culture/human-vs-racing-driver-how-much-faster/
In this case, same car, same track, the pro lapped 3.35 seconds faster, on a lap pace just under 1:12 (pro) to just over 1:15 (amateur).
3.35 seconds on a racetrack in a single lap is a massive difference. We're talking "lose track of the guy in about 3 corners" difference.
That difference would probably be exceeded by the capability difference between the MX-5 and the Vette, so if the "normal" driver was a regular track junkie, you're probably right.
But at the same time, I doubt most Corvette owners, even those who fancy themselves as quick, are going to be as fast as a magazine editor who tests out cars on a regular basis and gets to probably spend more time lapping racetracks than the Vette owner.
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As I noted before, I've driven a CTS-V at COTA. My wife was riding along with the instructor in the car ahead of me. I was doing all I could to keep up and the driver, she told me, was driving with one hand and talking on the walkie talkie with the other. I KNOW in the same car any of those drivers would have left me in dust, mostly on the turns and braking. But I was going a LOT faster in that V than anyone could in an MX-5.
I have a long ingrained idea of being easy on cars so they last longer, it took me a while to realize I should hammer the S out of that Caddy. They changed the brake pads AND tires after each day's driving. The tires are around $500 per. We also did a tight gymkhana course and had significant differences between the students, and they had an instructor visiting who had never driven that course before who beat all of us. Handily. But it was a very tight course.
I love that!
back in 09 when they came out with the first iteration of the CTSV, I was invited to a private showing and driving at Monticello raceway in the Poconos, because I had one on order.
it was pretty cool. The first few laps you had an instructor sitting next to you but then they let you cut loose.
and one exercise they had a lead car with a professional driver and everybody else was to follow. I was in the second car and I had to be forceful about getting that spot because other drivers thought they would be held behind.
The lead professional driver only checked his rearview mirror to see if someone was keeping close, and I was. But when we got to the finish line it was a good 30 Seconds before the third-place car came in behind the professional and then me. On the track, 30 seconds is an eternity lol.
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This was a 2018 CTS-V. It was pretty fun, duh, but I wondered how hard it would be to drive on actual streets.
We had the nannies turned to Track II most of the time, for one event they had them all off and we tried to drift on a wet parking lot area. It was fun to accelerate from a stop, you had to hammer the brake pedal HARD and floor the accelerator at the same time, until you lifted off the brakes and the car would shudder and chirp and go.
640 horsepower. We also drove the ATS V at the same event and it struck me as being more of a daily car, not nearly so crazy.
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Speaking of professional drivers being great:
I took my heavily modified three series BMW to Mylan dragway for test and tune night. The gates always opened at 4 PM, so if you got there early you could get a lot of runs in before it got crowded.
On this particular day both motor trend and car and driver were at the track prior to four to privately test the soon to be released Cadillac CTS – V
I ran in there right at four and grab the guys from MotorTrend and told them to race me one time down the track because I was only a month or two away from receiving my CTS-V
He obliged.
Here is the video and you have to give the guy credit because I had an all wheel drive car and although his car had a lot more horsepower, he started off in the hole and was driving a manual. He caught me at the end and I was so impressed with his skill set. That’s my two brothers you can hear squawking on the camera lol
https://streamable.com/nz2odu
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That's cool, AWD and an automatic, especially the news ones, are great for the quarter mile.
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The lead professional driver only checked his rearview mirror to see if someone was keeping close, and I was. But when we got to the finish line it was a good 30 Seconds before the third-place car came in behind the professional and then me. On the track, 30 seconds is an eternity lol.
Yeah, 30 seconds is like "who crashed?"
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https://streamable.com/l30fs6
This is a short video of a time back in 07 or 08 we’re meeting some boys renting out an airstrip to do some top speed runs.
This was my 300 C which had heads, Cam, headers, tune, exhaust and much more. Super fast in those days but not so much by today’s standards but the point is doing it somewhere safe.
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good clean fun
how long was the airstrip for the top speed runs? shoot
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good clean fun
how long was the airstrip for the top speed runs? shoot
Was about 3 miles.
it took you a good mile ish to get to top speed, then you would want to slowly scrub off speed over a mile to save your brakes lol.
(https://i.imgur.com/ujTkMgG.jpg)
Wurtsmith AFB Oscoda Mi.
Decommissioned
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Man, a Buckeye fan admitting to going into Michigan and doing something cool. What is the world coming to??? :)
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Man, a Buckeye fan admitting to going into Michigan and doing something cool. What is the world coming to??? :)
Unavoidable lol. Lived there at the time.
so many of my closest friends and even some family- are big Michigan fans. Makes the fall interesting!
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Unavoidable lol. Lived there at the time.
so many of my closest friends and even some family- are big Michigan fans. Makes the fall interesting!
For sure. I'm married to an Aggie, after all...
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2022 Kia EV6 Electric SUV First Drive: This Changes Everything (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-kia-ev6-electric-suv-first-drive-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2QCEmJXIDn25TYWvLNKOKFySgHmn7KBJTZ0vhpwvOIWp7PcZq677t1I-8)
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A Heretic in the Corvette Chapel (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38036526/spencer-hall-heretic-corvette/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR22klHKolLhVsWzrsh6w3CSMHlnwQPFHfDIbyCS0x8KcJ7oTwFLeQWE6R8)
I spend most of my working hours considering college football, the sort of thing that can immunize one to elegies for the everlasting American spirit, be they aimed at storied universities or storied automotive brands.
So maybe I am the wrong person to drive a Corvette, or the right one, because the car C/D sent wasn't the Corvette I remembered, the kind the neighborhood dads would wreck two weeks after bringing them home. The car deposited at my house in Atlanta was a 495-hp C8, the mid-engine Vette that GM built to deliver exotic performance at American middle-manager pricing.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p552x414/257129947_2998039250454231_913141077238997851_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=cCocmtLX5jAAX-DpDKr&_nc_oc=AQkMVY50R2evjmevo0zfAh2GqghXvZmSx-lN4UrCw1DoDbDJCQ2mbSkQvABElxZiWpU&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=24b14ef6f1e679b45d5c0a3655194c18&oe=6196A277)
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A GF's dad was restoring an Austin Martin and INSISTED I drive it one rainy night. So I folded myself up into the thing, barely, head hitting leaky roof, which was leaking badly, and drove it off, around a corner or two, carefully, and parked on the side of the road for some obligatory period, and drove it back.
I can see it would be a neat car were I 5'8" and on a sunny day, not very fast, but fun to drive, but I'm not and it wasn't. I like the MX5 concept, would own one if I could fit in it.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7YqdGt19tw
One of- if not the best car production videos that I have ever seen.
If you like cars and the emotions that stir when driving them you will really enjoy this video.
I need a cigarette ……..
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Plaid is a stupid name for a car model.
That's all.
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I wonder how he had the nannies set to get that much oversteer.
Nice to see the manual in it. The auto would be faster.
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Plaid is a stupid name for a car model.
That's all.
X AE A-XII is a stupid name for a child.
But that's what Musk named his...
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betarhoalphadelta, now that's a name.
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betarhoalphadelta, now that's a name.
It's a message board handle, not a name. If my parents had named me betarhoalphadelta, I'd have legally changed it long ago.
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It's a message board handle, not a name. If my parents had named me betarhoalphadelta, I'd have legally changed it long ago.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHPuY88Ry4
You still grew up hard, and you grew up mean, and your fists got hard, and your wits got keen.
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It's a message board handle, not a name. If my parents had named me betarhoalphadelta, I'd have legally changed it long ago.
wouldn't take any legal meandering to change it here on this board
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Plaid is a stupid name for a car model.
That's all.
You don't like Spaceballs?
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X AE A-XII is a stupid name for a child.
But that's what Musk named his...
Moon Unit and Diva Muffin, and sons Dweezil and Ahmet Emuukha Rodan
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Yeah Frank was a weird dude.
And Dweezil's a heckuva guitar player.
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Elon has nothing on Frank
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Elon has nothing on Frank
He's got a couple [hundred?] billion dollars on him...
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He's got a couple [hundred?] billion dollars on him...
Well that's true.
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2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing: Car and Driver 10Best (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38260594/10best-2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR0IWoqE41hRzEYr6T6OKYbdPOONWzRXOxVREx1LRgN407fU7qLrVZO4dEg)
I may have to pont up if they do the driver's courses again.
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2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing: Car and Driver 10Best (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38260594/10best-2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR0IWoqE41hRzEYr6T6OKYbdPOONWzRXOxVREx1LRgN407fU7qLrVZO4dEg)
I may have to pont up if they do the driver's courses again.
🤤🤤🤤🤤. Me want.
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2022 Chevrolet Corvette: Car and Driver 10Best (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38260604/10best-2022-chevrolet-corvette/?fbclid=IwAR3HaHFdU_7Y8bFhFSCkD30XMBcvP88TrI4ZBVYyeU1scwaGEUHI3BeWDAQ)
Not a shock of course. They are too large and too low for my preference and I wouldn't drive it anywhere near it's limits.
I noticed something useful in thhe GTI while driving on the freeway, I was on a mild upgrade and needed to accelerate a bit, in sixth gear from about 80 mph to get around a truck, and did without downshifting just fine. Low end torque is nice to have.
That was probably spinning about 2300 RPM or so, so not quite low end. Some of the older cars I had you'd be downshifting a lot.
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2022 Volkswagen Golf GTI: Car and Driver 10Best (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38260773/10best-2022-volkswagen-golf-gti/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR26m_ckuJyQjMFqZevsAoTP_UeLNkkZytWy35zoTlxny2kq4HDrpwMRhz8)
Ours is a 2018 and I must say it does everything pretty well. The torque steer is only evident when really hammered and then not much. I've gotten 40 mpg in long drives. It accelerates nicely in sixth gear at speed and has room. The ride is better than the ride in the CTS we used to have.
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All indications point to the new Chevrolet Corvette Z06 being an incredible vehicle that can hang with or beat all but the hyperest of hypercars. Moreover, it will do that at a price point considerably lower than the competition, but how much lower are we talking? Officially, we don't know – Chevrolet hasn't offered any insight into C8 Z06 pricing. And we likely won't have that info for some time yet.
As such, rumors are flying like crazy and this particular claim from the YouTube channel HorsePower Obsessed caught our attention for a couple of reasons. The video cites two completely separate Chevrolet dealerships reporting the same starting price of $87,000. That's a very clean number, so it probably translates to something like $86,995 or $87,195. But the takeaway is that this screaming 670-horsepower supercar will start under $90,000, and while that's not cheap, it's still less than half the cost of anything remotely comparable.
That is, it will allegedly cost that much. The video keeps these claimed dealership sources completely anonymous, so there's absolutely no way to fact-check this YouTuber. However, we can confirm that an $87,000 starting price mirrors the price gap between the previous-generation C7 Stingray and Z06 models. That's the second reason this caught our attention, as it does lend some credence to the claim.
https://www.motor1.com/news/548352/2023-corvette-z06-price-rumor/?fbclid=IwAR0VOl0UYZV39uiE2EF7litvZY_Ka4QvP0QBKT6BwJKVShp4QbgWgxM5nQM (https://www.motor1.com/news/548352/2023-corvette-z06-price-rumor/?fbclid=IwAR0VOl0UYZV39uiE2EF7litvZY_Ka4QvP0QBKT6BwJKVShp4QbgWgxM5nQM)
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Suspension Technology That Makes the Cadillac Blackwings Drive Like a Dream (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a38293112/cadillac-blackwing-magneride-4/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR3tnSrmg7cuYtBbUdp-NyRCnn_uW0gq8EDboejQSFMK8esNKkiZJxL5wcQ)
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According to Motor Trend's sources, Chevy is set to introduce a new variant to send out the current Camaro, and the car is said to be coming with the 6.2-liter supercharged V-8 found in the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing. The engine makes 668 hp and 659 lb-ft of torque in the Caddy, and could potentially be tuned even higher for the Camaro. After all, the Challenger and Mustang both have options delivering over 750 horses.
When will this hardcore Camaro arrive? Motor Trend says to expect it to arrive for the 2023 model year and last through 2024 as a way to see out the sixth-generation Camaro.
As for what comes after 2024, there are rumors Chevy will fill the void of the Camaro with an electric performance sedan. Don't scoff at the idea. We'll remind you that Dodge has already confirmed an electric muscle car for 2024 and Ford already sells an electric Mustang, albeit in crossover form.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1133386_2023-chevy-camaro-reportedly-in-line-for-ct5-v-blackwing-s-v-8?ta=&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3nscuOO2WD9sfONEmR657DX0xXW2kD_54G9849t0NIVc9ZmtArovSK_lY (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1133386_2023-chevy-camaro-reportedly-in-line-for-ct5-v-blackwing-s-v-8?ta=&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3nscuOO2WD9sfONEmR657DX0xXW2kD_54G9849t0NIVc9ZmtArovSK_lY)
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According to Motor Trend's sources, Chevy is set to introduce a new variant to send out the current Camaro, and the car is said to be coming with the 6.2-liter supercharged V-8 found in the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing. The engine makes 668 hp and 659 lb-ft of torque in the Caddy, and could potentially be tuned even higher for the Camaro. After all, the Challenger and Mustang both have options delivering over 750 horses.
When will this hardcore Camaro arrive? Motor Trend says to expect it to arrive for the 2023 model year and last through 2024 as a way to see out the sixth-generation Camaro.
As for what comes after 2024, there are rumors Chevy will fill the void of the Camaro with an electric performance sedan. Don't scoff at the idea. We'll remind you that Dodge has already confirmed an electric muscle car for 2024 and Ford already sells an electric Mustang, albeit in crossover form.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1133386_2023-chevy-camaro-reportedly-in-line-for-ct5-v-blackwing-s-v-8?ta=&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3nscuOO2WD9sfONEmR657DX0xXW2kD_54G9849t0NIVc9ZmtArovSK_lY (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1133386_2023-chevy-camaro-reportedly-in-line-for-ct5-v-blackwing-s-v-8?ta=&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending)
I’ve always loved the high-performance Camaros but I could never buy one because I can’t get over the unbelievable lack of visability while trying to drive one. And they’ve never fixed it.
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you don't need to worry about what's behind you. It's getting farther away
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I’ve always loved the high-performance Camaros but I could never buy one because I can’t get over the unbelievable lack of visability while trying to drive one. And they’ve never fixed it.
Same with me, I mused about getting a convertible, we'd probably rarely drive with the top up anyway. I favor the Mustang for this reason.
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My daughter desperately wants a Mustang convertible when she starts driving. And her grandparents just might buy her one.
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My daughter desperately wants a Mustang convertible when she starts driving. And her grandparents just might buy her one.
Good for her! I am pretty confident her old man has or will teach her the right way to drive including the “ always expect the unexpected “ part from others.
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Isn't a "hardcore Camaro".......a Corvette? lol
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I have this coming via hauler from Utah of all places. Had to wait till month end and look nationwide to finally find a dealership not married to these ridiculous mark up is going on now and motivated to sell.
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Isn't a "hardcore Camaro".......a Corvette? lol
They are quite different vehicles I'd say the Camaro ZL1 is the "hard core" Camaro. It has 650 hp versus 495 in the Vette. The Camaro is slower 0-60 for obvious reasons.
The Camaro is build on the Alpha platform shared with the Cadillac sedans. It is a very advanced chassis, but of course completely different from the Vette.
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I have this coming via hauler from Utah of all places. Had to wait till month end and look nationwide to finally find a dealership not married to these ridiculous mark up is going on now and motivated to sell.
Enjoy. Auto prices are absurd. Been looking to upgrade for a while, but can’t justify some of these prices.
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Isn't a "hardcore Camaro".......a Corvette? lol
To an extent...
I think the Mustang gains popularity because Ford doesn't have a Corvette equivalent. And the Camaro loses popularity because the Corvette siphons some of the "performance car" Chevy market away.
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I have this coming via hauler from Utah of all places. Had to wait till month end and look nationwide to finally find a dealership not married to these ridiculous mark up is going on now and motivated to sell.
Nice! That is a seriously hot car.
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some of the "performance car" Chevy market sports a mullet
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some of the "performance car" Chevy market sports a mullet
I'm sure there are some mulleted Corvette owners :57:
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Mullets are back in. 80s rule!
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The most innovative cars America has ever made
Cadillac’s 1912 range inaugurated a major breakthrough: an electric starter. It made driving safer, because the cranks commonly used to start engines in the early 20th century often caused injuries, and considerably more convenient. It didn’t take long for Cadillac’s invention to spread across the industry.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-most-innovative-cars-america-has-ever-made/ss-AAXbMDk?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=d339a74af407479f9c8e04826816ba4e#image=2 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-most-innovative-cars-america-has-ever-made/ss-AAXbMDk?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=d339a74af407479f9c8e04826816ba4e#image=2)
In July 1941, Willys secured a lucrative contract to provide the American military with a light-duty utility vehicle that could allow soldiers to navigate battlefields around the world should the government decide to enter World War II. Affectionately nicknamed Jeep, the off-roader played a significant role in liberating Europe and it was copied by over a dozen companies around the world during the 1940s and the 1950s. Today, its spirit lives on in the fourth-generation Wrangler introduced in 2017.
Tucker nearly entered the pantheon of automotive history as one of the most innovative carmakers in America. Founded by Preston Tucker (1903-1956), it planned to release a big, rear-engined saloon called 48 packed with innovations like a directional headlight added to the middle of the front fascia, a padded dashboard, a roll bar integrated into the roof and a windscreen made with shatterproof glass.
Safety was Tucker’s claim to fame but it’s the firm’s fundraising efforts that caught the attention of the American government. It sold accessories like a radio and seat covers before it launched production, a questionable practice that landed some of the company’s top executives in court. Although the charges were abandoned, the bad publicity drove the final nail in Tucker’s coffin after it built 51 cars.
Over six decades after its introduction, the Corvair remains one of Chevrolet’s most controversial nameplates. At launch, it was celebrated as one of its most innovative models. It was powered by a rear-mounted, air-cooled flat-six engine in an era when a vast majority of American cars were front-engined and rear-wheel drive. It proved the company could think outside the box when pressed to. It retired without a successor after two generations so it’s Chevrolet’s first, last and only rear-engined car.
Oldsmobile’s quest to bring performance to the masses led it to experiment with forced induction. It introduced the Jetfire, a coupe based on the F-85, for the 1962 model year. Power came from a turbocharged V8 that made 218 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, though motorists needed to keep the Turbo Rocket Fluid tank topped off with a blend of distilled water, methanol and rust inhibitor.
Jetfire production totalled 3765 units in 1962 and 5842 units in 1963 (pictured). Oldsmobile put turbo technology on the backburner and later celebrated displacement as a cheaper, simpler way to deliver horsepower. Sister company Chevrolet, which offered a turbo on the Corvair, came to the same conclusion.
AMC took a highly unusual approach to developing a compact car. It argued city-friendly dimensions and generous interior space weren’t mutually exclusive when it introduced the Pacer in 1975. Marketed as the world’s first wide small car, it stood apart from its rivals with an unusual hatchback body, large glass surfaces made possible by a low belt line and a passenger-side door that was longer than the driver-side door to facilitate the task of accessing the rear seats. It could have been even more innovative: AMC planned to launch the Pacer with a rotary Wankel engine sourced from General Motors. It redesigned the engine bay around a straight-six in record time when the Wankel project was cancelled.
Cadillac’s V8-6-4 engine is not remembered as one of America’s best automotive innovations but it was nonetheless a smart solution to a common problem. After weathering two oil crises, the company knew it needed to build more fuel-efficient cars to fend off competition from German rivals. It developed a relatively complicated, microprocessor-powered cylinder deactivation system which turned the 6.0-liter V8 into a 4.5-liter V6 or a 3.0-liter V4 by closing the corresponding valves when its full output wasn’t needed. This engine was standard in every 1981 Cadillac with the exception of the Seville, which shipped with a diesel-burning V8 built by Oldsmobile.
It didn’t take long for motorists to complain about problems - some said the engine took too long to wake up the sleeping cylinders - and Cadillac chose to abandon the technology instead of fine-tuning it. It was replaced for the 1982 model year. Cylinder deactivation made a comeback in the 2000s.
General Motors could have proved that an electric car doesn’t need to be as anodyne as a golf cart over a decade before Tesla introduced its first model. Launched in 1996 as a 1997 model, the EV1 represented a serious attempt at making a modern, highway-capable electric car suited to the needs of commuters. It was put in the hands of over 1000 motorists across America through a lease program.
Officials warned motorists that they were participating in “a real-world engineering evaluation” and that they could be asked to return the car at any moment. That’s exactly what happened. General Motors recalled all 1117 examples of the EV1 before the end of 2003 and crushed most of them. It didn’t introduce another electric car until it began manufacturing the Chevrolet Bolt in 2016.
Few took California-based Tesla seriously when it turned the Lotus Elise into an electric roadster unimaginatively named Roadster. It proved it could do much more than electrify someone else’s car when it launched the Model S in 2012. Tesla developed the saloon in-house with electricity in mind from the get-go and motorists gave it a spectacular reception. It inspired a growing list of rivals and imitators.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/286789506_3171188533122687_8382408176074012649_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=Q14eFGZ-b08AX_VFeCp&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT89TbXYuZGChcqWFoSt61X4UXnW86ILL3cRm6byd3Ynxg&oe=62A8C094)
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Our rental was a Toyota Camry, which is about as boring as a car can be, in a good way. It was competent. Our kids had a Honda Odessy minivan which I had to drive a lot and it was very uncomfortable for me, the seat wouldn't go back far enough. It also had a tricky accelerator pedal which I tamed somewhat by setting to ECO mode.
It was nice to get back into the GTI with a manual.
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30 years ago I had a Porsche 944 Turbo. That car was fun to drive. Much better than the 928 I had. That was a pig.
I think I might do it again, and get rid of the electric vehicle.
(https://i.imgur.com/HwiTQSu.png)
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I'd get an MX5 if I fit in it, which I don't.
(https://i.imgur.com/Iv2Qtjc.jpg)
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I don't think you'd be OK in a 944 either.
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I've driven a 924, it was fine, but slow. I knew a guy in school who sold Porsches and Audis and he'd let me drive them on occasion. I sent a customer or two his way. He had played in the old AFL.
Even a slow car today is pretty fast relatively.
I notice nearly every car today has some sort of alloy wheels on it.
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alloy wheels look "sporty" and probably save some weight which saves MPG
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They do save weight over steel, and it's unsprung weight, which is doubly bad. I think it's more for looks than mpg/$$$.
Our rental Camry had some sporty looking wheels on it.
I remember our Caddy had 35 profile tires, which were a major issue for me.
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but they looked GOOD
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Yup, a LOT of car buying choices are about appearances, color, subjectives. It's rather amazing really that folks choose a $40 K item based on appearance as much as anything (or Consumer Reports, which I personally view as misleading and irrelevant).
Most cars in Europe are either black, or white, mostly black, it's fairly rare one is a color. My wife dislikes red cars unless they are Ferraris, which is fair enough I suppose. Our Caddy had a really nice paint job, tricoat offwhite something. I liked that color a lot. It also had a rather harsh ride, which you wouldn't think for a 4 cylinder Caddy. Some of that was due to the 35 profile run flats.
The GTI for me has about the best overall balance of any car I can imagine. It also has alloy wheels of course that look spiffy.
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The 924 to the 944 = Berlinetta to the Z28
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I dislike White vehicles
look like fleet cars
my work car is white - it's just a color
It's a 2017 Impala - alloy wheels
pros - large trunk for golf clubs, 305 hp 6 cylinder for passing on two-lane highways
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The 924 to the 944 = Berlinetta to the Z28
Yup, but the same size. The 924 was really slow for a sporty car.
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Nah, they were basically the same size and general shape. The 924 was just a stripped down 944, before the 944 came out, much more refined.
Entry level Porsche.
To me it tarnished the brand a bit.
(https://i.imgur.com/VZ38pID.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EVcrX7h.png)
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Nah, they were basically the same size and general shape. The 924 was just a stripped down 944, before the 944 came out, much more refined.
Entry level Porsche.
To me it tarnished the brand a bit.
yup
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Big fan of the Chevy II before it turned into the Nova - J/K
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I had a 68 Nova 307 and a 73 350. I sort of miss that latter car a bit. Bucket seats, F41 suspension, it was basically a Camaro with some room.
The 68 had that Powerglide transmission that lacked a "passing gear".
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I saw an unusual number of Ferraris in SD and a few Bentleys/RRs as well. We did drive through some of the higher rent districts of course. I think increasingly to survive in CA you need a Big Bank or to be rather poor. My Step Son in Law told me the minimum salary now is $62,000, not MW, but for salaried workers, which would include Admins etc. That just edges into the 9.3% state tax bracket for singles.
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The 6 cyl.250 was a good engine,I had that in a '72
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I saw an unusual number of Ferraris in SD and a few Bentleys/RRs as well. We did drive through some of the higher rent districts of course. I think increasingly to survive in CA you need a Big Bank or to be rather poor. My Step Son in Law told me the minimum salary now is $62,000, not MW, but for salaried workers, which would include Admins etc. That just edges into the 9.3% state tax bracket for singles.
I felt like every third car was a Tesla last weekend in SoCal.
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I was somewhat surprised not to see more EVs in CA than I noticed. I saw a lot of trucks and SUVs in swankyland.
Over the past 10 years, annual sales of plug-in electric vehicles in California have gone from just 7,000 in 2011 to more than a quarter of a million sold in 2021, making up more than 12 percent of all light-duty vehicle sales last year.
Obviously a 12% replacement rate isn't much relative to the whole fleet. CA has a million "plug ins" (which includes hybrids) but nearly 30 million cars and LTs. The various articles seem to try and imply 12% of the fleet is EV, which isn't true of course.
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The 1975–1980 Oldsmobile Starfire Was GM Badge Engineering at Its Malaise-iest (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/1975-1980-oldsmobile-starfire-malaise-era-mirage/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR34aShOUThFX2qTsCP6EcSOYeMJ6IPjnR6ueoxYTJXjbIg6KhPyGwS6lJQ)
A reminder of how bad cars were back when.(https://i.imgur.com/dcpV2g1.png)
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They specified SALES LAST YEAR.
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They specified SALES LAST YEAR.
Sure, I don't think anyone has SALES THIS YEAR. Maybe this year will be 15%.
That still is a slow replacement rate, for now.
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What was the least sportiest car that was ever made?
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a ford
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What was the least sportiest car that was ever made?
I'd say AMC Pacer. There is a long list here of course, Chevy Chevette comes to mind, any minivan ,,,
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What was the least sportiest car that was ever made?
(https://i.imgur.com/D0g7rCP.png)
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You'd be safer on a Harley
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(https://i.imgur.com/rSKlLXg.jpg)
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The Gremlin was more sporty than the Pacer, I think.
I think that's a Gremlin. I should mention Mustang II here as well, they sort of looked sporty, but weren't, at all. I test drove one way back.
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The Ugliest Cars of the 1970s (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/ugliest-cars-of-the-1970s/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2UHqA-It_HTf8GigaNUynkJ0Z-QUXjyVxEZA3M2I-pUKlvzoNA3AjRhAg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fKiQZK0.png)
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The same ‘32 Ford and the same guys - 45 years apart! 😎 Awesome job, guys!
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285863154_1432092487307613_442370199101611508_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=b6PlloNI7jsAX-J9qqd&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT81y92AMlxISPvGDFIfVkY4ZG7ZyxVwoLvYgCGGUNiDRA&oe=62AB204E)
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No words needed.
(https://i.imgur.com/UYmxTAg.jpg)
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https://youtu.be/xbFrgOqgbPE
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That commercial is pretty funny, really, TX.
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https://youtu.be/Rtb5-axztrg
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https://youtu.be/wqQDdGt5Low
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in 1980, my best friend had the 70 Torino GT with the 300hp 351 Cleveland
I had the 70 Nova SS with the 300hp 350
It's amazing that we didn't race them
I crashed the Nova at the local 1/4 mile strip on night after work racing a 70 Monte Carlo
I won the race
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Those were the old horsepower ratings, not SAE Net of course.
That Chevy 350 is still being built, in rather modified form of course.
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This single passenger Chinese car isn't very sporty, although it is a convertible.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Bubble-car-China-1230941.jpg/799px-Bubble-car-China-1230941.jpg?20151214163124)
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2023 Cadillac Escalade-V: Power and Money (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40254654/2023-cadillac-escalade-v-drive/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2JWlRLG2BbXWGS2gFBTOsuRVo_C9CA6_-pWfYdX-LaCIQRpbtO7WXYe_g)
Not my style.
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2023 Cadillac Escalade-V: Power and Money (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40254654/2023-cadillac-escalade-v-drive/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2JWlRLG2BbXWGS2gFBTOsuRVo_C9CA6_-pWfYdX-LaCIQRpbtO7WXYe_g)
Not my style.
Especially when there a number of full sizes SUVs out there already that are faster, handle much better and cost less.
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I got friendly with our salesman at the Caddy dealership in Cincy. He told me nearly all their profit came from Escallades (and used cars). He said they sold them at list, every time. They had one on the floor MSRP at $95K in 2016 and he commented it would likely be sold that day. One obviously can buy the Chevy equivalent with the same functional tech, maybe not Super Cruise, at much lower pricing. The folks who buy these are interested in the Bling.
The fact Audi et al. may offer superior performance is not relevant.
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I got friendly with our salesman at the Caddy dealership in Cincy. He told me nearly all their profit came from Escallades (and used cars). He said they sold them at list, every time. They had one on the floor MSRP at $95K in 2016 and he commented it would likely be sold that day. One obviously can buy the Chevy equivalent with the same functional tech, maybe not Super Cruise, at much lower pricing. The folks who buy these are interested in the Bling.
The fact Audi et al. may offer superior performance is not relevant.
Agree. That’s my point.
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2023 Cadillac Escalade-V: Power and Money (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40254654/2023-cadillac-escalade-v-drive/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2JWlRLG2BbXWGS2gFBTOsuRVo_C9CA6_-pWfYdX-LaCIQRpbtO7WXYe_g)
Not my style.
It fits the ugly category for sure.
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It fits the ugly category for sure.
😂😂. You are being kind.
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Though it was discontinued in GM vehicles in 2003, GM still produces the 5.7 Chevy engine today.
The 5.3 that is popular for GM vehicles today and in my 2015 truck is close to the 327 CI
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The "small block" in whatever displacement is still around, heavily modified of course. I remain amused that the Corvette is still using the pushrod design.
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The Volvo Penta engine in my boat is a 5.7 Chevy block.
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https://youtu.be/z6phFJpW3kk
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Cadillac Escalade V Blacking Not Happening: Explainer (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40244179/cadillac-escalade-v-blackwing-not-happening/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2dVLsD9G0QZnx2F9MsuEUjVx11-ekSn_n-KfvEkQDvKdwGC_7TKizbplM)
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Luxury SUVs Compared: Escalade, Grand Wagoneer, LX600, Navigator (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a40204577/2022-cadillac-escalade-vs-jeep-grand-wagoneer-vs-lexus-lx600-vs-lincoln-navigator-compared/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0ElXMncwhaeQZwaSdagw55rzCEowHMgSqk1BCRAfUH8Iqv0jBz_jR3Ee0)
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SUV
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Old-School Comparison Test: 1999 Honda Civic Si vs. 2020 Honda Civic Si (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/1999-honda-civic-si-vs-2020-civic-si-test-drive-comparison/?sm_id=organic_fb_AMAG_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2zBfxdblzwlnZuEmqkws-1igQ6NmZEk2tNSVJN7VF_pJdEfjy-7bwj0fo)
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1999 is old school?
how old is the guy from motortrend with the article?
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1958 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz convertible!
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288444560_8219042304788350_1406426784465840787_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=U2cqCjc7GMoAX_LCer5&_nc_oc=AQlQ3sseYA3Po9gF_ZWwUGeQduDUgIf-hLVa0O9yw2bcYdZMEoOvNcdvQIbf4GHt-7Y&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_MHh1Acm8ecULxOx92Xl3mzwn2nd19LlXX9lOEOnd0aw&oe=62B0D9BD)
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1999 is old school?
how old is the guy from motortrend with the article?
21
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In HS, one of my friends had this behemoth. 500 Cubic Inch motor.
(https://i.imgur.com/CaVlU70.png)
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My HS car looked something like this one. Very large car, and very much a dog compared to what would be considered equal today. It had a 455 Rocket V8 that produced 175 HP. Yeah... dog compared to now. Probably got 8 MPG too. I don't remember exactly - didn't matter I guess.
(https://i.imgur.com/Y83uKho.png)
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Comparison Test: 2023 Nissan Z Performance vs. 2022 Toyota GR Supra 3.0 Premium (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a40243249/2023-nissan-z-vs-2022-toyota-supra-compared/?fbclid=IwAR1Gid1Rkktu_WcT0iScrpsmcOdI1MIdKMhdXOMltrV4D8KTgwTuUpB_ojI)
2nd Place:
Nissan Z Performance
Highs: Engaging manual transmission, twin-turbo V-6 is willing and able, less cash outlay.
Lows: Tires are easily overwhelmed, outdated interior with disappointing materials, shallow trunk space.
1st Place:
Toyota GR Supra 3.0 Premium
Highs: Superb suspension tuning, pleasant ride quality, potent inline-six.
Lows: Wince-inducing exterior styling, small cargo area, infotainment could be more intuitive.
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those two cars???
Lows: shallow trunk space
Lows: small cargo area
YA THINK!!!!
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I'm guessing they mean in a relative sense, not sure. The Vette is always designed to accomodate two golf bags, which says something about the target audience.
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they, that's me!
60 year old golfer!
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IMSApressive: 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Track Editions Coming (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-track-edition-first-look-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR3-w5Oo9mifgKShN9rWXCNQXG0lznJYnGsFE3VRPAdTwy-9CCn0-ZKYm6Q)
I'm a bit curious why they keep investing in these.
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(https://i.imgur.com/GLRW41W.jpg)
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The Volvo Penta engine in my boat is a 5.7 Chevy block.
Yup same here.
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IMSApressive: 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Track Editions Coming (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-track-edition-first-look-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR3-w5Oo9mifgKShN9rWXCNQXG0lznJYnGsFE3VRPAdTwy-9CCn0-ZKYm6Q)
I'm a bit curious why they keep investing in these.
It doesn't make much sense to me either. They talk about going all EV but for some reason, on the way there, they'll blow a bunch of cash on super sporty Cadillac roadsters.
The thing that makes it even goofier, IMHO, is that a sporty Cadillac roadster would have made a lot of sense back in the '70's and prior when the Corvette was a more affordable and less luxurious car.
Back then I think the marketing concept behind the Corvette was that it would be borderline obtainable for an average "Joe Six-Pack" guy and would mostly serve to get him in the dealership door. Once there he'd generally decide that the Corvette was either too impractical or too expensive and hopefully buy a Camaro or Chevelle or some other Chevrolet.
Today the Corvette would really make more sense as part of Cadillac's lineup. The typical buyer or "considerer" of a Corvette, I would guess, isn't very likely to switch to some other Chevrolet. Instead, he (and they are predominantly men) is in the market for an expensive and luxurious status symbol. If he decides not to buy a Corvette he'll probably switch to either another expensive sports car or a luxury option which Cadillac is better positioned to offer than is Chevrolet.
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IMSApressive: 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Track Editions Coming (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-track-edition-first-look-review/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR3-w5Oo9mifgKShN9rWXCNQXG0lznJYnGsFE3VRPAdTwy-9CCn0-ZKYm6Q)
I'm a bit curious why they keep investing in these.
It’s obvious. People who like real performance cars that can be ran on the freeway in sublime fashion, on a race course, or a dragstrip, will buy them up. Beautiful machine. Nice profit margin.
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I'm told the V's don't sell that well and have a low profit margin, they are "halo" brands in effect. I think folks interested in a high performance sports sedan usually prefer BMW or Mercedes. They make nearly all their money on Escalades, or so I'm told. They have emphasized SUVs lately.
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I'm told the V's don't sell that well and have a low profit margin, they are "halo" brands in effect. I think folks interested in a high performance sports sedan usually prefer BMW or Mercedes. They make nearly all their money on Escalades, or so I'm told. They have emphasized SUVs lately.
Go try and get one lol.
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2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing For Sale in Savannah, GA - 1G6D35R65N0810652 - TrueCar (https://www.truecar.com/new-cars-for-sale/listing/1G6D35R65N0810652/2022-cadillac-ct5-v/)
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2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing For Sale in Savannah, GA - 1G6D35R65N0810652 - TrueCar (https://www.truecar.com/new-cars-for-sale/listing/1G6D35R65N0810652/2022-cadillac-ct5-v/)
Yes. Now call them. Lol. You are in for a little shock.
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Maybe so, I know they are in short supply, but that doesn't mean they will sell very many of them. It's a specialty item.
But perhaps they do make a fair bit of money on them to justify the development costs. They came up with that blackwing engine which Caddy barely used.
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Yes. They want $10,000 over sticker. They will get it too.
Yes- a narrow audience that both wants a vehicle like this- and can afford it.
But that audience is not going to be denied.
They don’t want the electric stuff yet.
I know- I am one of them.
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https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cts+4+v+blackwing&t=iphone&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxWIH_ncgdnc
Not for everyone I admit. But if you like canyon carving or road courses- in a car that presents a somooth, pillowy ride at 80 on the freeway …
This is one of only a few.
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Cadillac doesn't get anything over sticker. It doesn't help the company.
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We had a 2014 CTS with the 4 cylinder, and magnetic ride, and it had a pretty stiff ride.
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Cadillac doesn't get anything over sticker. It doesn't help the company.
but the dealership benefits
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Yup. I think I saw Caddy only made 250 each of the Blackwings. That's a tiny run, even if it's profitable it's not much for GM, and yet they are investing more in the brand.
Our local dealer in Cincy way back had two slightly used V wagons with a manual on the floor, I was tempted.
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I owned the original version of the CTS-V back when they came out in 09. That was 556 hp with the magnetic suspension.
At that time it broke the Nuremberg Ring lap time for sedans, besting all of the Mercedes, BMW and Audi sedans at that time. It was one hell of a vehicle and I got to drive it around Monticello Raceway on the road course. Talk about a riot.
Of course, since that time those track records have been shattered numerous times. Hell, I now own two SUVs and one coupe That are faster around the Nurburgring than that 09 original CTS-V.
To your point, a tremendous amount of research and development, and investment, has actually gone into creating SUVs that can perform since that’s what the public wants to consume
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Yup, I understand why companies invest in SUVs and "halo" SUVs. I know women seem to like them, usually the cushier kind, because they sit up high.
Most SUVs today to me are station wagons with a bit of lift and different styling.
My GTI is kind of a micro SUV. It probably has more room in the back than some small SUVs, or about the same, but it doesn't sit high.
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Yup, I understand why companies invest in SUVs and "halo" SUVs. I know women seem to like them, usually the cushier kind, because they sit up high.
Most SUVs today to me are station wagons with a bit of lift and different styling.
My GTI is kind of a micro SUV. It probably has more room in the back than some small SUVs, or about the same, but it doesn't sit high.
But you GTI has been engineered for people who actually enjoy driving a super competent vehicle that can grip in curves and the integration of the chassis, engine and transmission has been optimized for performance! A great vehicle for drivers- has been for a long time.
Most SUVs are soft, mushy and cushy- great for people who just want to get from point A to point B. Nothing about them is engaging to the driver.
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I had a Ford Explorer as a rental vehicle in Montana a few years back. I guess it was "OK", certainly not a driver's car at all. Our "kids" have a Honda Oddessy I drove taking the grandkids to school and whatnot. It drives pretty well for a minivan but I could not get comfortable in the seat, and the accelerator was hypertouchy, I deadened it by putting it into eco mode.
They are station wagons to me, though minivans I find very useful with kids.
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SUVs are an ugly mutt between a station wagon and a minivan
but, some folks like them, obviously the majority
we all have are own opinions and beauty or practicality is in the eye of the beholder
I prefer a sedan or coupe to drive
I prefer a truck to haul cargo
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The driver's position in SUVs is higher, women especially like that, then they can stare at the back of an SUV in front of them.
My wife wanted one until she drove one. She liked that Explorer, as a passenger.
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Women also think the smaller SUVs are cute
many women here in the rural areas prefer the large models built on truck chassis
Suburbans, Expeditions, Escalades
better for hauling kids and groceries than their husband's pickups
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Yeah, the CUV market is kind of hilarious, and they almost never go off road, except by mistake.
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Cadillac Super Cruise Review: It's Actually Great (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a40377388/cadillac-super-cruise-review-2022/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1PxmkHoAiflZhsPDHQkw_lpg1aDRiGkTDPibWA2oA6yQQtDqky4wOVszI)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289359014_1379447399200864_7619777441171474765_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=l_6KCkKzm-EAX9VDkjB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8kNyNDeUMMsSRWV5HyKT5DXLdkABWT_ayBRRcOB-MuBw&oe=62C5A6D4)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/290330535_501076638685928_1236025751564466610_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=dsgsOITzr2cAX-VBiNZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9U3unV8a92_-3PoHXrSJ2rHFc_PjKcC34LpqPVFukQmQ&oe=62C62618)
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We had a 1959 Belaires station wagon back in the day. I was always envious of families that had Impalas with the triple tail lights. At least we didn't have a Biscayne.
Chevy liked names from California beach towns.
And of course, a corvette in WW II was a British destroyer escort, a small destroyer without much power or speed just meant as a cheap escort for convoys against sub attacks.
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the folks around Detroit seemed to like French names
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288958454_5426614197404824_3616327692040265387_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=cAk7iqn_g8EAX-UsU8w&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT98ndl8ojw6RhW3nkTdaGpWbOu0fRuwkYiQVNcVap24Lg&oe=62C87C84)
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For me, a sporty car is one that is fun to drive in the twisties. It can be a pretty slow car accelerationwise.
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My dad had a 1958 Buick Roadmaster. I don't know whether or not it was sporty, but it sure looks cool.
(https://i.imgur.com/admBQlL.png)
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Ever since I first saw the movie Christine, I've wanted a red 1958 Plymouth Fury. As long as it never tries to kill me, of course...
(https://i.imgur.com/9d667dQ.png)
They didn't actually come in red in 1958, and in the movie it was explained that Christine was a special order.
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The tail fin era ...
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Yup.
Of course, I actually prefer the '56 Chevy Bel Air over the '57, because the tail area is understated by comparison.
(https://i.imgur.com/FAtDa0h.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/gjMtZlo.png)
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My dad had a 1958 Buick Roadmaster. I don't know whether or not it was sporty, but it sure looks cool.
(https://i.imgur.com/admBQlL.png)
sporty look
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(https://drivingtodays.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/18p64hj4o4s0wjpg_img_61cad91121750.jpg)
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11 Cars That Make Way More Horsepower Than Advertised
Sometimes, automakers don't reveal the true potential of their finest cars.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6755/underrated-horsepower/?utm_source=facebook_dda&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=dda_fb_rt_d_i_g6755&fbclid=IwAR1zXUUC0gse-PWkEAYYpXzuQ62pyopDeefT7gBJhcZMOit9pr-YF1ChlmI&slide=1 (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/g6755/underrated-horsepower/?utm_source=facebook_dda&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=dda_fb_rt_d_i_g6755&fbclid=IwAR1zXUUC0gse-PWkEAYYpXzuQ62pyopDeefT7gBJhcZMOit9pr-YF1ChlmI&slide=1)
Chevrolet L88 Corvette
GM made its fair share of wild muscle and sports cars in the Sixties, but the company portrayed itself very conservatively. The Corvette L88 was a factory-built race car that advertised an output of 435 horsepower, but likely made at least 100 more than that. Corvette godfather Zora Arkus-Duntov didn't want the L88 in the hands of the general public, so the numbers were dramatically downplayed to keep the car a racers-only secret.
Ferrari F40
Officially, Ferrari claims the F40 makes 478 horsepower. Unofficially, many enthusiasts and journalists who've tested the F40 believe it makes over 500 horsepower—which may explain why it's much quicker than its successor, the F50.
Ford Mustang Boss 429
Built to get Ford's biggest V-8 homologated to race in NASCAR, the Mustang Boss 429 was hilariously underrated by the factory. Ford advertised a stout 375 horsepower, but as Hemmings says, "if you take that 375 hp power rating and replace that three with a four, you're a little closer to the truth."
1969 Pontiac GTO The Judge
The Judge was the most powerful GTO you could buy in 1969, though according to Pontiac it only made 10 more horsepower than the next most powerful variant. Except not really: Pontiac executives apparently told a magazine testing a Judge that the 370 number was entirely made up, thanks to GM's policy at the time assigning horsepower ratings based on the weight of the car. Figure The Judge made at least 30 more horses than The General claimed.
BMW M5
It's widely known that BMW is rather conservative with the performance specs it publicizes, especially with its performance cars. BMW advertises the current M5 Competition as having 617 horsepower at the crank, but independent dyno testing reveals it's closer to 700. That explains why the 0-60 sprint happens in less than three seconds.
Ford Mustang Shelby GT350
The Mustang Shelby GT350 is powered by one of the coolest modern engines: A 5.2-liter naturally aspirated V-8 with a flat-plane crank, allowing it to rev past 8000 rpm. Ford estimates maximum horsepower at 526 ponies, but in reality, it's making closer to 600. Not bad for something without forced induction.
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Beautiful Thing – 1966 Super Sport 427 Chevy Impala Cruiser
(https://infoditore.info/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/N2.jpg)
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BMW seems to underreport torque ratings as well. Most/all? of their engines are blown, and this usually contributes to a lot of torque and flat hp dyno readings over an RPM range.
Combine that with AWD and you can get better acceleration numbers that one would compute.
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Chevrolet Corvette Facts Only True Fans Know
The C7 Generation Is Seriously Quick In Reverse Gear
While you might be more interested in the straight line speed of the Corvette, you may be surprised to learn the car is surprisingly fast in reverse.
In fact, it is quite possibly the fastest reversing car ever made. Drivers car reach a frankly astonishing 53 mph when going backward. While this trick has virtually no real-world application, it is certainly something to add to the car's bragging rights. We certainly wouldn't recommend you test this fact out, as traveling at that speed with limited visibility is risky, to put it mildly.
The Car Has Left A Windshield Design Legacy
The C1/ first-generation car had a futuristic-looking "wraparound" windshield, and Chevrolet was the first mainstream manufacturer to integrate such a feature. While this looked great and was very popular, it became apparent that the design was resulting in an unacceptable level of visual distortion. For this reason, the design was shelved. Safety was also a big concern, as the lack of A and B pillars would have exposed occupants to a much higher degree of risk in an accident.
The Original Logo Didn’t Comply With The Law
Designer Robert Bartholomew came up with the original logo for the 1953 Corvette. The design was simple and seemingly inoffensive, featuring the US flag and a checkered flag associated with racing.
However, what Bartholomew obviously didn't appreciate was that the stars and stripes could not legally feature on a commercial product. Fortunately, the transgression was noticed prior to the car's unveiling and a "fleur-de-lis" design was implemented instead, celebrating the brand's French heritage.
The Manual Gearbox Was Discontinued For One Year
Being a car designed essentially for the driving enthusiast, the option of a manual gearbox is pretty much a necessity. Chevrolet has always catered to this need, for all but one year of production.
For reasons unknown, Chevrolet dropped the manual gearbox in 1982 and instead opted to fit an automatic. There was a backlash from the customers, who felt let down by the decision, and the brand was forced to revive the manual for the 1984 model year.
Astronauts Were Given Discounted Access
Over the years, many well-known astronauts have owned a Chevrolet Corvette. The link started when the first American in space, Alan Shepard, was gifted a car following his trip.
NASA did not permit its employees to receive free items, so in order to get around this, a local dealer leased astronauts the cars for just $1. With a deal like that, it is of little surprise they were so popular with the astronauts.
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They dropped the manual in 1982 for emissions reasons (and of course dropped it in the C8 as well).
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the manual was leaking more than the auto in 82?
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Manuals were an emissions problem in the days of carbs especially (and somewhat even later). When you lift your foot to declutch, the carbs run rich for a few and your emissions go crazy, more than the catalyst can handle. Some cars back then would rev the throttle when you lifted, I drove a couple of that ilk, drove me crazy, like bad rev matching. The 1982 Vette had a new form of injection that was pretty crude and couldn't meet emissions specs with a manual.
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hah, the ol double clutch
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hah, the ol double clutch
Very few of us remember the process of double clutching.
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Synchros. I still double declutch at stops, usually. I've yet to drive a car with actual rev matching.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/293336793_4979501715495225_2220054237754057953_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=bmYv1shq6hgAX_e9DII&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_X3oBRK-8Lhv0efh_LvD-B6M_-SwjQjEGdlX-lUpv1kA&oe=62D57B93)
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The 2023 C8 Corvette Z06 Will Start At $106,395 (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40628152/the-2023-c8-corvette-z06-will-start-at-dollar106395/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR0Z5eumomjUpAAdPDG6kpEAJprppIhwm-BhuUxGLmjaZ-uJXfBYKkTQzl4)
That base price for the 1LZ trim level is more than $40,000 over the base C8 coupe, which starts at $65,595. It brings the Z06 in line with the base 911, which starts at $106,100. That number goes up to $115,595 and $120,245 for the 2LZ and 3LZ trim levels, respectively.
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pretty sure I could live with the 1LZ trim on the Z06
real track cars usually don't have the fancy luxury amenities
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I think if I spend $106 I'm going to go ahead and spend $120. And I bet they don't build many at $106.
But you're right, that basically is a track car. I guess it drives decently on the roads.
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yup, the extra 10% is worth it
especially for resale
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I've wanted a Vette much of my life, at least post-kids and when finances were in range. Practically speaking though I no long want one. Tis a pity, I guess I passed that "stage".
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I've given up almost as well. Very content with the sedans and SUV's out there. Need comfort.
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Yeah, I'm finding getting into the GTI is beginning to be a chore. It is fun to drive though. Our excursion into the mountains let me wring it out a bit.
We got 35-6 mpg in the trip.
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I've wanted a Vette much of my life, at least post-kids and when finances were in range. Practically speaking though I no long want one. Tis a pity, I guess I passed that "stage".
I turned 60 today
Still wanting one
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Happy birthday!!!!
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Happy Birthday Fearless!
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thanks
I'm just grateful to have made it
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I think 60 is peak age for wanting a Vette. You start to see the financial possibility of it, and still feel young(ish).
I can sense in a few years I may be wanting an SUV, though I dislike them generally.
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yup, thinking of trying to get a spot on a 2023 build - $1000 will hold the spot and assure MSRP list price
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The Czechoslovakian-built Tatra 87 was Hitler’s car of the future. With a top speed of more than 100 mph, it was a car destined for the Autobahn. Its sleek, futuristic design and high performance made it the vehicle of choice for Nazi officers. It was the Allies’ vehicle of choice for their enemy, too. They wanted all Nazis to drive one – because it would eventually kill them.
If 100 miles per hour doesn’t seem impressive by today’s standards, in 1935, it was a big deal. The car’s aerodynamic design helped it achieve these speeds. It didn’t hurt that the speed and design also made it seem like the future was coming, and the Nazis were leading the way. And it was coming, it was just a very short future. For most of the Nazi officers that pushed the limit in the car, their future usually consisted of wrapping themselves around a tree.
While the Tatra 87 has an incredible top speed, it seems it handles like a shopping cart. The death toll it took on Nazi officers was so bad, the Allies referred to the cars as their “secret weapon.” It even killed more of them than actual World War II combat – and these were the officers fighting the Soviet Union.
“These high-ranking Nazi officers drove this car fast, but unfortunately the handling was rubbish, so at a sharp turn they would lose control, spin out and wrap themselves around a tree killing the driver more often than not,” said author Steve Cole.
In the first week of its availability, seven officers took the 95 horsepower, 3.4-liter V8 engine for a spin and never came home after spinning it out of control. But there was a safer, more economical version. In 1939, the Volkswagen Beetle was introduced, which borrowed a lot of design elements from the Tatra, so much so that its designer, Porsche, had to pay Tatra for infringement.
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(https://ugawire.usatoday.com/lists/georgia-football-schedule-with-future-nonconference-opponents/)Tested: 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Is an Epic Sendoff (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a37418534/2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-by-the-numbers/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1T3uDWIoGz-pjE5WkstsYHHudJ2eP6iZFi8M3uzdnG_D6H7dfcimA6_54)
Short version, they liked it. A lot.
13 mpg.
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2022 Corvette Z06 Specs
MSRP: $90,000 Estimated
Seating Capacity: Two Seater
Engine: 5.5 L V-8
Horsepower: 670
Torque: 460
Transmission: 8-Speed Automatic Transmission
Fuel Mileage: 15 mpg in the city and 22 mpg on the highway
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297230619_1740917196288908_9069054900468779154_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=T0idshBfhN8AX_r5Vem&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_haHDBdEE4olbRK_zULCnMgdWuRmU_iweD_BpwdlaFOg&oe=62EEA010)
better mileage
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(https://ugawire.usatoday.com/lists/georgia-football-schedule-with-future-nonconference-opponents/)Tested: 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Is an Epic Sendoff (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a37418534/2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-by-the-numbers/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1T3uDWIoGz-pjE5WkstsYHHudJ2eP6iZFi8M3uzdnG_D6H7dfcimA6_54)
Short version, they liked it. A lot.
13 mpg.
Drool! Sexy ass car
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and juuuust a bit outside.... of my budget
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My rental in CA was a black Honda Civic. I'm used to rental cars being boring, this one was probably the best rental I've had this side of the pond. It had a sun roof for example and accelerated, braked, and handled quite well for a very basic model. It got about 38 mpg according to the computer. The ride was perhaps on the firmer side but I prefer that. I could live with such a vehicle, though it's not really very sporting.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/300894568_2028844877314322_3086497110126653018_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=fpGVGWDlzbMAX_GX2ha&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_RGMG1h8c187J3kLgX_PjCvGTPkuaS4rm3iHb2PczS6A&oe=6309AC57)
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Chevrolet Lead Engineer Reveals How The New Z06 Handles Better Than The Standard C8 Corvette
YouTuber Speed Phenom (Austin Everett) recently posted a POV video in the Corvette C8 Z06 at Laguna Seca Raceway. His latest video, though, offers even more insight into the car as he talks with one of Chevy's lead engineers from the Corvette team at the track regarding the Z06’s handling attributes.
Austin Everett speaks with Mike, one of the lead engineers for the Z06’s suspension setup. Being the most track-focused C8 Corvette ever, he wanted to delve into the important questions that racing fans might be wondering about.
Austin starts off by asking if there are any key points to highlight about the new FE7 suspension with the MagneRide on the Z07 package. Mike says that he believes the biggest factor is the “notion that the suspension had to be brought up to the same level as the rest of the car”, especially with the visceral engine; the chassis ultimately had to match that.
Austin also asked if someone would be able to feel the difference between a C8 Z06 Z07 and a standard Z06 Z51. Mike ultimately says yes, because when it comes to the FE7 and FE6 cars, the spring rates are higher on the former. Mike also reiterates the fact that the ride frequencies on the C8 Z06 with the Z07 package are about 30 percent higher than on one with the Z51 package. The spring rate differences along with the damping, he says, bring a whole new level of platform support to the mid-engined Corvette.
Mike says that one of the coolest features on the new Z06 (FE6 and FE7) is probably Chevrolet’s use of a helper spring. With the spring rates on the C8 being so high, Chevy used a helper spring that sits in tandem with the coil spring to allow for a full rebound. With this setup, you still get that spring retention, but you didn’t give up wheel travel to get it.
Moving on to the Cup 2 R tires and the carbon fiber wheels, Austin asks if drivers are getting a new calibration for the setup. Mike says that for Magneride, Chevy was able to keep a common calibration no matter if you had the aluminum or carbon fiber wheels. As you go from FE6 to FE7, however, there is a steering calibration difference that comes with the carbon wheels. There’s enough of a difference in steering feel, quickness, and directness that it required its own calibration.
Austin concludes that the FE7 Z07 package is ideal for those looking to get the most aggressive setup possible. The standard Z06 with the Z51, however, is perfect for anyone who enjoys more street composure. It all comes down to your personal use. The Corvette offers a spec for both sides of the spectrum and the C8 is certainly a winner in any respect.
With those points said, Austin tells Mike that he strongly believes people need to run the car stock first to really get a feel for what the C8 can do before changing anything out. After all, the all-new Corvette C8 Z06 was born to win and comes ready to do just that.
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The regular C8 is so fast for street use .... I dunno.
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Ed Zachery
the Z06 is just for status and perhaps the very rare off chance of blowing by someone on the autobahn or interstate that otherwise could keep up with the reg C8
well, status of having the sound of that Z06 engine noise
FE7 Z07 package?? the track
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RANKINGS FORD MUSTANGS BY THEIR 0-60 TIMES
https://motor-junkie.com/rankings-ford-mustangs-by-their-0-60-times/2673/25/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=MJ10&utm_campaign=23849171616880305&utm_content=23849171616890305_23849171616900305&fbclid=IwAR3t4v7PbT9fsJwLVS_so_9j_gpy3UZ-9yzX4HkSlKIQCT_v_abycbaKqfA
Some of these are sporty, I think.
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Some are not. I recall test driving a Mustang II in about 1975, it was truly awful in every respect.
I've rented 3 Mustang convertibles that were entirely pedestrian, one was a V6 and two were the turbo 4s with the 10 speed.
I'm sure the 5.0 is spiffy.
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Many Mustang clubs don't even admit those mid-late-70s era "Mustang II" owners. It's not considered to be a Mustang, but rather a rebadged Pinto.
My 1983 Mustang GLX convertible was not particularly sporty, but it looked good.
My friend's 1988 Mustang GT, on the other hand, was plenty sporty for the era.
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Going to the independent rear end helped the Pony cars.
Mustang has the DOHC engine while Camaro stuck with the "OHV" design, which rather amazes me today. They have variable valve timing with the single cam and pushrods.
I've pondered getting a Mustang 5.0 convertible but keep deciding to be practical. The GTI has a sunroof (which I rarely use).
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Some folks like and will use their sunroof/convertibles, and some don't. I'm definitely in the camp that does.
Including my wife's current daily driver which is a Jeep Wrangler, I've owned at least one convertible (and sometimes multiple ones) since 1993. Wow, I just realized that's almost 30 years.
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I forget the sunroof is there, but I usually am driving either a mile and a half to the Kroger or 500 miles at 80 mph.
My wife says she uses it a lot. To me, the sunroof is noisy and pointless. I do like convertibles, and cabriolets.
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During the 2022 Corvettes at Carlisle event, Corvette Executive Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter revealed that the top speed for the C8 Corvette Z06 would be 195 miles per hour. Meanwhile, Chief Engineer Josh Holder – Tadge’s right hand man – confirmed with CorvetteBlogger that the top speed of the 2023 Corvette Z06 with the high-downforce Z07 package will be 189 miles per hour.
The Z07 aero package add 650 pounds of downforce (which also counts as drag) and is the most aggressive aero package ever fitted to a production Corvette to-date, thanks to its two-post high wing, dive planes, and front splitter.
In Tadge’s own words:
This really is not a numbers car, we never intended to be…It was always intended to be the most pure expression of track and driver capability. That’s what we were thinking about, but the numbers are pretty good. You’ve got 670 horsepower, that’s very, very impressive. We published it before, but zero to 60 on this car is 2.6 seconds. So honestly, when we broke three seconds on the stingray, we were a little worried because this car isn’t a drag racer per se. We’re a little bit worried, but it pulls like crazy it, launches great, it’s got the big wide tire patches in the back so zero to 60 in 2.6 seconds. We haven’t really talked about it, in fact, we haven’t even done our testing at reveal, but the top speed of the car is 195 miles an hour which is pretty good.
It’s especially good given the downforce that we have on this car. The lift to drag ratio on this car is the best we’ve ever done, so you get pretty substantial downforce with reasonable drag and that lets you run to 195 miles an hour. Quarter mile 10.6 at over 130 miles an hour so even though it’s not a numbers car per se, it does vary respectively. But where it’s really going to shine, I believe, when we put the car out there is lap track times. That was its reason for being…all the decisions that went into it…we’re all focused on that, and so people who love to track their cars I think they’re gonna they’re probably set personal records at many tracks driving this car.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/302716661_10167324516695112_494788963092720184_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vhT6QkcOdBYAX-HUmqB&tn=h3RKF0195C_Cy8Vu&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-IKJsyzQ9iBfuR9XyEWzVTB6lFfr3GP4TytXco7p8ZUA&oe=6318475B)
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RANKINGS FORD MUSTANGS BY THEIR 0-60 TIMES
https://motor-junkie.com/rankings-ford-mustangs-by-their-0-60-times/2673/25/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=MJ10&utm_campaign=23849171616880305&utm_content=23849171616890305_23849171616900305&fbclid=IwAR3t4v7PbT9fsJwLVS_so_9j_gpy3UZ-9yzX4HkSlKIQCT_v_abycbaKqfA
Some of these are sporty, I think.
That’s the one I have -the 21 GT 500.
Yes, it’s quicker and faster than hell, almost scary. More than you need on the street.
but I never had an interest in a Mustang until they built this one. Because this one has the grip and corning abilities of the exotics that cost three and four times as much. Historically that has not been a strength of the Mustang. They put tremendous amounts of research and development into this vehicle and the grip on corners is beyond anything you could imagine if you don’t experience it yourself.
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https://youtu.be/UXYl8GrIQgU
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The first reviews of the new Z06 are glowing and then some. This isn't shocking of course.
All the Changes That Turn a Chevrolet Corvette Stingray into a Z06 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g41469743/chevrolet-corvette-z06-details-changes-stingray/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR1PiNleY9ng-85ma8gYIUBBbYen_zViVhFv47LlP6B8-kKnJUgfVfNhk58)
Tested: 2023 Corvette Z06 Is an American Ferrari and Then Some (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a41411338/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-by-the-numbers/)
LOWS: Cup 2R track tires' disdain for rain, our sudden longing to have one in our garage.
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one review lamented lack of supercharged power.
And needing better tires and brakes which will come with Z07 package
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Personally, I like turbocharged torque for every day driving, a lot. I recall the Honda S2000 that had a lot of power but little low end torque, probably fun to drive at 9/10ths but like a Civic around town, sort of. But I do think a "sports car" should be more focused on high RPM power even if it means less low end grunt.
A thing I like about our GTI is I can accelerate comfortably from 75 mph on the freeway in top gear, or take a mountain grade on a freeway in top gear. But the engine isn't free wheeling. Anyway, it's interesting for me to see the work that GM put into this vehicle for low sales numbers. I've always thought it a bit amusing that Corvettes had relied on pushrod designs (with a rare exception here and there).
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the expected ZR1 may well be supercharged
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Yeah, it may be hybrid as well. They'll stuff as much power into the chassis as possible. I'd rather have the Z06 personally, with a manual (!), but for the money I'd take a nice Stingray convertible. That's more car than I can use anywhere as it is.
I still muse about the BMW 240i convertible, but that's off the table for now. I was going to do the eU delivery program on that but that has ended.
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(https://i.imgur.com/CC5S3m2.png)
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2023 Hyundai Ioniq 6 Throws a Curveball at the EV Market (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a41461558/2023-hyundai-ioniq-6-drive/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0Nsl5GHD5q4PxZcWFdg4wIWTWg6IbqvSJOotdq1_xffNyeVt4mJFqdsT4)
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2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Review: Finally Beating the Germans at Their Own Game (thedrive.com) (https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/2022-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-review-specs-price-driving-impressions?utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=thedrive&fbclid=IwAR0m2d_DXWMU-RyzidUvc-z5Aa8f7yJbiB2jpq4vOpjNQdFblkvzthBCY1M)
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2023 Chevy Corvette C8 Z06 First Drive Review: America's World-Beating Supercar (thedrive.com) (https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/2023-chevy-corvette-z06-review-c8-price-specs-driving-impressions-chevrolet?utm_campaign=trueanthem_manual&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3ivNJ5bfqv42PZal3BsastRizzilxEgWBZVhfdolPniyorctUwa6E7MPA)
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]his is not a drill. General Motors has built a 670-horsepower, 8,600 rpm, mid-engine monster with all of the trimmings of European prestige for less than the cost of a base model Porsche 911. If you’ve got around $100,000 burning a hole in your pocket, for god’s sake, put your name down for a 2023 Chevy Corvette Z06 (https://www.thedrive.com/news/42530/2023-chevy-corvette-z06-first-official-look).[/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]There is no replacement, electric or otherwise (https://www.thedrive.com/news/rimac-engineer-says-0-60-mph-in-under-1-second-is-possible), for this kind of car. It grips, accelerates, and brakes like nothing I've ever driven. I didn't have as much seat time as I might've liked—just a few hours—but I can tell you that this is probably the moment a lot of exotic European automakers have been fearing for a long time. All the huge changes that came with the eight-generation Corvette no longer feel like they were done primarily to make the regular Stingray (https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/42570/2021-chevy-corvette-convertible-review-it-just-makes-people-happy) better. It feels like they all happened to make this Z06 impossible to to[/color]
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/293590713_601146454706185_3245032555715118295_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=uYs9B-aVZdMAX9EGVtn&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8YSZitwTPnmEqLlSCpBtaI0ulj26OGCHZtgDeeTDCBbg&oe=634A1B0A)
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(https://www.colorized.com/content/456225/f14a44cc82d9678c6975aabc4d225886.jpg)
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(https://www.colorized.com/content/456225/1beee3019f269c7f37a2771e34934147.jpg)
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(https://www.colorized.com/content/456225/1d6754f7e503276cb3c854baff77709d.jpg)
Sexy Linda Vaughn, Atlanta International Speedway's Queen of Speed.
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my first street bike - yes, it was purple
about 1979 - I was 17 years old and lucky to survive the widowmaker
https://youtu.be/FX-gnt__xV4
The Original Kawasaki H2 was called the 'Widowmaker' for a reason
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my first street bike - yes, it was purple
Actual photo of Fearless on his motorcycle:
(https://i.imgur.com/0SwCuhs.png)
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I did cruise by First Avenue (nightclub) in Minnie back in 1984 on a Red 1981 GPZ1100
my 2nd street bike
(https://motorcyclephotooftheday.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/nikon2008-06-02-8.jpg)
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I was there to see The boss on the 2nd night of the Born in the U.S.A. Tour.
listening to a lot of this
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Van_Halen_-_1984.jpg)
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Tested: 2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a41725834/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-by-the-numbers-november-2022/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR08GZU9noPBNd5SU9KCz4yJPTlUK2FReOCgO9QD5ZSaLTkXlra-8Gk_WrU)
They liked it.
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what's not to like?
it's american made
it's price tag is way too low
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Review: The 2023 Cadillac Escalade-V is a ridiculously powerful truck | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/review-2023-cadillac-escalade-v-powerful-truck)
(https://i.imgur.com/yy3eBFZ.png)
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There's a significant discrepancy between the 2023 Corvette Z06 and previous generation Corvettes in terms of acceleration performance and maximum RPM. A 2023 Z06 equipped with a Z07 Performance Package is an entirely different animal. The YouTube video above shows how a Z07-packed Z06 Coupe managed to achieve record-breaking performance — reaching 0-60 mph in just 2.2 seconds, and a cool 10.4 seconds in the quarter mile. Another YouTube video showed similar results on a different unit, getting a matching 2.2-second 0-60 mph time as well. This makes the 2023 Z06 0-60 mph acceleration comparable to a Tesla Model S Plaid, which achieved one of the fastest times for a production car.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/here-s-how-fast-the-2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-really-is/ar-AA13Ci0X?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=f59d200bf09a44519d3977d24e6880b5 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/here-s-how-fast-the-2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-really-is/ar-AA13Ci0X?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=f59d200bf09a44519d3977d24e6880b5)
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my first street bike - yes, it was purple
And your first actual bike
(https://i.imgur.com/CXEUG0h.png)
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And of course 0-60 times can be low with a rather mediocre performing car overall (Dodge). The Z06 is really a track car, even if it was slower. It's rather amazing I think.
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Review: The 2023 Cadillac Escalade-V is a ridiculously powerful truck | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/review-2023-cadillac-escalade-v-powerful-truck)
(https://i.imgur.com/yy3eBFZ.png)
As a consumer who loves, and owns high powered SUVs, I have to say- this thing is slow. Very slow.
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As a consumer who loves, and owns high powered SUVs, I have to say- this thing is slow. Very slow.
Relatively, it's also huge. I wouldn't call it slow though. Over priced? Sure. Ridiculous? So is the regular one. Are they selling like hotcakes? Apparently.
How about its 0-60-mph time? That's the first thing that comes to mind when you're in an SUV-measuring contest, right? No disappointment here, as Cadillac claims the Escalade-V ESV we drove will rip to 60 in just 4.5 seconds. The incredible thing is, that's not enough for entry into the elite tier of quickest-accelerating SUVs, but for something this massive there's no shame in where it lands on the list. The lighter short-wheelbase model is a tenth of a second quicker.
The fact of the matter is, the Escalade-V is quick, and feels it. Boot it and the big Cadillac surges off, surfing on a fat torque wave that starts way down low, achieving some high double-digit speed before you realize you should probably back off. But there's not much drama beyond the burly noise emanating behind you and a vague sense that something rather extraordinary happened. Without the context of, say, saguaro cacti whizzing by, it might seem anticlimactic. Use the Escalade-V's abilities to launch around a minivan cruising at sub-limit speeds in a short passing zone and it seems much more impressive.
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It's likely that Chevy underrated the Corvette Z06 with these dynamometer results.
To the delight of Corvette fans, Chevy has already reopened the ordering books for the 2023 Corvette Z06. Those who missed their chance to order theirs the first time can now do so, which will be produced until the end of the model year 2023.
But most importantly, deliveries of the first customer-owned Corvette Z06 have already begun. One could expect some of those Z06 to hit the dynamometer soon, and that time is now, courtesy of YouTuber Speed Phenom. Driving all the way to Dallas, one of the first customer Corvette Z06 hit the dyno to check out the real numbers that the flat-plane crankshaft V8 engine can put down on the ground.
Of note, the Chevy Corvette Z06 packs up to 670 horsepower (500 kilowatts) and 460 pound-feet (624 Newton-meters) of torque at the crank. With the transmission and other mechanicals employed before reaching the ground, you can expect around 10-15 percent power loss or around 600 hp at the wheels.
After three runs, the results were impressive. The first two runs above kept faith with those calculations. With the dyno at SAE setting, the computer calculated around 597-600 hp at the wheels. Torque figures were also pretty much in-line with the spec sheet.
The third run, however, was impressive. After letting the engine cool down, the Corvette Z06 recorded 610 hp at 8,400 RPM, all done while in fifth gear. That represents only around 9 percent power loss; it's either Chevy underrated the Z06 or the Tremec-sourced 8-speed dual-clutch gearbox was just that efficient, but we're counting on the former.
Manufacturers underrating their cars on the spec sheet isn't exactly unheard of. However, those over 600 ponies at the wheels were impressive, considering that they're coming from a naturally aspirated V8 inside Detroit's Ferrari.
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Relatively, it's also huge. I wouldn't call it slow though. Over priced? Sure. Ridiculous? So is the regular one. Are they selling like hotcakes? Apparently.
How about its 0-60-mph time? That's the first thing that comes to mind when you're in an SUV-measuring contest, right? No disappointment here, as Cadillac claims the Escalade-V ESV we drove will rip to 60 in just 4.5 seconds. The incredible thing is, that's not enough for entry into the elite tier of quickest-accelerating SUVs, but for something this massive there's no shame in where it lands on the list. The lighter short-wheelbase model is a tenth of a second quicker.
The fact of the matter is, the Escalade-V is quick, and feels it. Boot it and the big Cadillac surges off, surfing on a fat torque wave that starts way down low, achieving some high double-digit speed before you realize you should probably back off. But there's not much drama beyond the burly noise emanating behind you and a vague sense that something rather extraordinary happened. Without the context of, say, saguaro cacti whizzing by, it might seem anticlimactic. Use the Escalade-V's abilities to launch around a minivan cruising at sub-limit speeds in a short passing zone and it seems much more impressive.
4.5 was quick in the early 2000s. Not today.
mid 3s for a fast SUV. I have 2 SUVs that would murder that thing.
Plus it handles like crap. Not sure what the appeal is from driving dynamics. Especially at that price.
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the appeal is that it's a Cadillac
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turn up the sound!!!
https://youtu.be/bqLpfkVm1d4
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1955 Buick
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315095258_2387066014778764_6364644238937175068_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=HxjUy3qD-osAX-mGFtR&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDVUz4k83X1oZzRKQOhSzTn8ihTM9CMP8BLC-wHUXrV7Q&oe=6376F6FE)
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55s were so sharp,My old man had one of course he worked for them(Chevy) and it was for transporting any/every thing.Who knew back then
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I prefer the 55 to the gaudy 57
gramps had a 57
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315087053_2383903768428322_7552325630123140246_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=uw9jWdPsB80AX-kaFqV&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAJk15oG5CC9elqM1mwdRQuVFqVbhGikFyWBKrAE-iO-g&oe=6375738C)
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Brother had a '67 with a 396,that color,hardtop
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was never a fan of the vinyl tops, but my 68 Chevelle had one
it wasn't my favorite car, had the gutless 307 with the powerglide tranny
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I had a '68 Nova with a 307 and PG, my first car. Some cars had what we called "passing gear" ...
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I had a '72 nova,2 dr with a V-6,250,basically a hand me down work car for about 4-5 yrs
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I had a '72 nova,2 dr with a V-6,250,basically a hand me down work car for about 4-5 yrs
The 250 was an in line six.
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You're right,must be thinking of one of my other mounts in the stable of beaters.Prolly the '78 Pontiac V-6 in the Grand Prix
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Thw Buick 3.8 L V6 was a nice engine in most applications.
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we've had the Nova discussion in the past
my was right between those 1970 SS
300hp 350 with 4 speed muncie and 411 gears
had 60,000 miles when I got it. Ran like a top. Needed paint.
$700 - my father loaned me $300 - he knew we stole it from the young lady. Was worth double that or more.
she had no clue the SS was special
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The Nova was the same as the Camaro under the paint.
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Thw Buick 3.8 L V6 was a nice engine in most applications.
Not the one i had,prolly why they sold it in the 1st place.And explains why the mecahnic moved to Hawaii after he recommended it
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had 60,000 miles when I got it. Ran like a top. Needed paint.
$700 - my father loaned me $300 - he knew we stole it from the young lady. Was worth double that or more.
Did you take it to Earl Scheib? Leave the windows down and no charge for the interior
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You're right,must be thinking of one of my other mounts in the stable of beaters.Prolly the '78 Pontiac V-6 in the Grand Prix
This may have been the 3.1 L Chevy V6.
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Did you take it to Earl Scheib? Leave the windows down and no charge for the interior
did the body work & primer myself with some help from my friends
the local guy painted it after I taped it.
it was better than Earl, but it wasn't perfect
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315719505_572688178191445_2512665729363105690_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=wsastVKaLrgAX8iAZkB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDePoAha8xA1QdrJ37svDlnHC28nbhnbKHgAE63kRRpug&oe=6377A75C)
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Those are some serious rear tires.
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This had a 3.8 Liter V6. It was a garbage engine otherwise.
(https://i.imgur.com/EgsfSyF.jpg)
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I think the 3.8 L was durable and produced decent power for the time. It had a very basic origin back in the day. I had one in a minivan that was serviceable.
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I don't remember the specs but it prolly was a 3.8.The paint job and interior were sharp - could have been repainted......after an accident.But the mechanic knew the lady who owned it and said it was serviced regularly. Just didn't run smooth or purr,crappy mileage too.Nothing like the 3 models of Corolla's I have had since.
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by 1998 the chevy 3.8 or 3800 was pretty solid - 200-horsepower
first 6 banger I owned, actually was the wife's car. 98 Lumina LTZ
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Prolly the bad apple of the bunch
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the Ex?
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I had a 1981 Regal for a bit, and it had the standard 231 (3.8) V6.
That car was a dog. Couldn't wait to get rid of it.
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most cars made in 81 were dogs
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Cars from about 1974 to about 1990 were all pretty much dogs with very few exceptions. Fuel injection really started to "fix" the horsepower lack (and emissions) and then computer controls and DOHC designs etc. got us where we are today, which is pretty amazing really. I sometimes muse about starting cars with carbs back in the day, there was a trick to it depending on how warm the engine was, chokes and all that.
Our Cessnas had manual chokes and a fuel mixture knob and magnetos. Starting them was a trick also. Full rich, prime,check around, call out "CLEAR!" and turn the key. Maybe it started.
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those older cars could be temperamental with the temps below zero
little wonder they didn't have remote start
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My founding partner has a 1982 Corvette Indy car.
It's a dog. He still regrets buying it, 25 years later. Paid too much for it also. Can't sell it.
Looks like this, minus the "Official Pace Car" lettering. Yuck.
(https://i.imgur.com/lVuTJDU.png)
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At least it wasn't a 1983 ...
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https://www.hotcars.com/as-slow-as-a-minivan-the-story-of-the-1982-corvette/
With all of the shortcomings of the 1982 Corvette in terms of a new complicated throttle body injection system, a forced automatic transmission, and a design from the mid-60s, the performance is the biggest sin for this early 80s Vette.
The 350 c.i. V8 produced a low 200 HP and only around 285ft/lbs of torque, and without a performance manual transmission, much of this available power went to waste. The 1982 Corvette achieved a 0-60 time of 7.9 seconds, and while it was an accomplishment to achieve a sub-8 second time during the malaise era, this is laughable today, just as it was shortly after the malaise era ended.
For the sake of comparison, a late 1990s Chevy Cavalier (https://www.hotcars.com/gm-trademark-chevrolet-cavalier/)could achieve a 0-60 time of around 8 seconds, a 1997 Dodge Neon could reach 60 MPH in around 8 seconds, as could a 2008 Dodge (https://www.dodge.com/) Caravan SXT minivan.
The 1982 Corvette was still considered a sports car, and it is tough to ignore the low-performance today, especially when it is about as fast as a 90’s economy car or a minivan from 2008.
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At least it wasn't a 1983 ...
That would really hard to find.
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My founding partner has a 1982 Corvette Indy car.
I didn't mind the look of the car.
Just needed to rebuild the motor
I put those wheels on a couple mid-80's Caprice classics
they were dogs as well, but great backseat
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To match the action back there we're led to believe
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great is a relative term, usually
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As discussed before by "us", my days of a "sporty car" are largely over, I don't even push our GTI often at all. Our rental car was a Hyundai Elantra and it made me appreciate the GTI. At least with the GTI I can change gears when I feel like it and it goes when I want it to go.
We have about 27 K miles on it in four years plus.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/314670358_6620097444718931_7110221053039289800_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=0SX7bXjtGx0AX_663ps&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCMxYSTuZ4EGhY7BCjkMLrnJsxZIluaHpeqMMclCSU4Lw&oe=63787347)
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(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.29350-15/311889182_856161458737580_1647870701562962139_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8ae9d6&_nc_ohc=NAs6tMuwW8kAX_ZM5N9&_nc_ht=scontent.cdninstagram.com&oh=00_AfC0bTJFOvmGqi2UWu3dfznkJnITecr2KwUYxzweYiVVUQ&oe=637A2626)
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Used it for Ice fishing back in the day or running corn squeezin's from Canada across the lake or Detroit River
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or getting ready for the Bill's game this weekend
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Corvette Of The Day: 1963 Chevrolet Corvette Sting Ray 'Fuel-Injected' Coupe | CorvSport.com (https://www.corvsport.com/corvette-of-the-day-1963-chevrolet-corvette-sting-ray-fuel-injected-coupe/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0JavuKhz9fbHGUg0P14QTuZcbL9B07cLbJ2cOj65TTqn4DejZd_kozssk#Echobox=1668556577)
It's 0-60 time is about 6 seconds, fast for the day, about what my GTI can do.
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As a consumer who loves, and owns high powered SUVs, I have to say- this thing is slow. Very slow.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/314952894_9061348340591500_4048530147984160538_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=gAIpdoTC9OoAX_BMymP&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBnXXGQktpohyiDwBz-688qtlBcPh_hDlYXGh3KzCiVCA&oe=6379C335)
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Use to take one to Quebec
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316127293_2392507674234598_1455005279279758151_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=sqdnIpDBh1sAX8niNDS&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCA-B-w6dbKkILT04NZOKFUJNGAH1iiYFx_iabRcM78qQ&oe=63867DF6)
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1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316540763_3447972905433702_541456451000276231_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=1C9bUN72w98AX9xHTdT&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDCDOre2vkNbrHQup_OJGT1N5yki8i1SnB0aN5fmZGhFA&oe=638A9CA3)
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Had a Maxima rental they ruined that car
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1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316540763_3447972905433702_541456451000276231_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=1C9bUN72w98AX9xHTdT&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDCDOre2vkNbrHQup_OJGT1N5yki8i1SnB0aN5fmZGhFA&oe=638A9CA3)
That's nice looking. Reminds me of Aston Martins of similar vintage.
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Had a Maxima rental they ruined that car
almost bought the Ex an Altima back in 1998.
The 98 Maxima was a good car I thought
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The new ones are boats. The CTS WAS far better.
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The new ones are boats. The CTS WAS far better.
Are you suggesting that a Cadillac was better than a Datsun?
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Completely. The CTS handles FAR better and has better responsiveness, and the costs are not out of line either.
I see the Maxima is no more after this year.
Our CTS did have the MHD suspension which helps.
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mid-sized sedans are disappearing dinosaurs
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Yeah, I had a choice of a Malibu, Altima, Maxima, some Hyundai thing, and chose the Max. The steering was "fake" hard.
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not sure you can squeeze 2 sets of golf clubs and a couple overnight bags in any of those little vehicles
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The Top 6 Vehicles Most Likely to Reach 200,000 Miles
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-suvs/the-top-16-vehicles-most-likely-to-reach-200-000-miles/ss-AA13VrvJ?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b21776aee28b443b8055b3763a3544a8#interstitial=1 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/autos-suvs/the-top-16-vehicles-most-likely-to-reach-200-000-miles/ss-AA13VrvJ?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b21776aee28b443b8055b3763a3544a8#interstitial=1)
Ford Expedition
4.9% hit 200,000 miles
Toyota 4Runner
4.1% hit 200,000 miles
Toyota Avalon
3.9% hit 200,000 miles
Chevrolet Tahoe
3.9% hit 200,000 miles
Toyota Highlander Hybrid
3.8% hit 200,000 miles
Toyota Tundra
3.7% hit 200,000 miles
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Two electric Corvettes with different styles coming in 2025 (electrek.co) (https://electrek.co/2022/11/29/two-electric-corvettes-with-different-styles-coming-in-2025/?fbclid=IwAR0HqhgWP8Ch6GQbUyNaihBuRoOWSGq81nU6D1l19hvr5HqC8oj4Ld4UeZs)
Meh.
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I don't want one
I would think most guys interested in a Vette, want a gas guzzler
I guess we'll see
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2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 vs. Lamborghini Huracán Tecnica, McLaren 765LT: Club Supercar (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-lamborghini-huracan-tecnica-mclaren-765lt-comparison-test-review/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR2mMaYigghkCyLo4ekk1C4LANjqMwityDtGGixV9XT0BLSG7RzL_iSDA0Q)
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well done Chevy
It would seem shedding 200 lbs could be done if needed for the track
the extra weight is probably a bonus for normal driving
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This is What a 2023 Corvette Z06 with a Straight Pipe Exhaust Sounds Like
https://youtu.be/11VnAwSY2dg
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In the early years of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (Nasa), astronauts bought whatever sports car they could afford. Modest airforce or navy salaries could stretch to diminutive two-seater British roadsters from MG and Triumph, but a $3,490 (£2,840) Corvette C1, introduced at the General Motors Motorama in 1953, was pie in the sky.
It wasn’t until Alan Shepard became the first American (and second person ever) in space on May 5 1961, that the Astrovette legend was born. The handsome, all-American hero was headline news around the world – and marketing gold. The following year, General Motors (GM) presented him with an Ermine White 1962 Corvette.
Shepard may have been beaten into space by Yuri Gagarin, but the cosmonaut had to settle for a more modest Matra-Bonnet Djet coupé – a gift from the French government. A dream motor for the average Russian at the time, the Djet was also the world’s first production, mid-engined sports car.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/when-general-motors-offered-the-first-us-astronauts-the-choice-of-its-cars-there-was-only-one-contender/ar-AA15ay71?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds&cvid=d13747b5ccb64e4cbb4b1d3c643f8a09 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/when-general-motors-offered-the-first-us-astronauts-the-choice-of-its-cars-there-was-only-one-contender/ar-AA15ay71?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds&cvid=d13747b5ccb64e4cbb4b1d3c643f8a09)
(https://i.imgur.com/iZM97Gq.jpg)
Alan Shepard (centre) with GM Styling President William Mitchell (left) and Chevrolet General Manager Edward Cole (right) with Shepard's 1962 Corvette
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That's a sweet ride.
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I'd like to have a Red one
62 was a good year - new 327-cubic-inch engine
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/298770783_23851452743770707_1960204470648278111_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_p526x296_q75_spS444&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=68ce8d&_nc_ohc=Uq-7rvaH2PcAX-WZi_5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB2K08q4XRABfw4Ttz0Tz3THQoHRQAWjr2BvF66EX8RCw&oe=63A291F4)
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Is the Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Better With an Automatic? (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42256071/2023-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-automatic-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0MHwx35m95BzSlR2y355ORsNont7I2nJzQM9NOvcne9kriO4jz-A3uAN0)
VERDICT: A great automatic, but give us our CT4-V Blackwing with the manual.
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1966 Chevrolet Chevelle M22 Muncie Rockcrusher Four Speed 454 CI LS6
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319634278_1586499745144751_6672395146653015828_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=rPWFiVT-2rwAX9tJy2V&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCxd8_kb6TTMbw3Mg9y5XyUy2HOjOdwFIl22CfTFHMG7g&oe=63A4736F)
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https://youtu.be/wzG2vzMmsok
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https://youtu.be/wzG2vzMmsok
I had the 09 CTS-V, first one sold to the public in Michigan. Looked exactly like that one.
that thing was 12.0 flat on street tires right out of the box- 11.5 on drags out back. Crazy- now I have an SUV that runs that.
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SUV all-wheel drive?
that would help
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SUV all-wheel drive?
that would help
Yes. Huge difference.
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almost like cheatin ;)
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A Brief History of Cadillac's Quest for High Performance (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g38506230/a-brief-history-of-cadillacs-performance/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0-nsZw3DfWaYh0irtxiPB3AJPvk7acMPSRsSKKTEms0tuzyHbgz3NYFCw)
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almost like cheatin ;)
Sure, and I guess shifting automobiles from steam engines to the internal combustion engine is also like cheating.
Technology advances are great. I dig 'em.
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It's not "sporty" in the go fast sense, but I finally installed the lift kit in the Jeep over the past week. Still need to do the geometry correction brackets for the front control arms, but that's done with the wheels on the ground so it's actually put back together for now.
I feel like that car beat the shit out of me lol...
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We have oft noted how many muscle cars of the 60s were about as fast to 60 as a Honda Accord today. Technology. Usually good. The new TVs I see at Costco are amazing, but the one I have is fine, and works. I'd guess it's 8 years old now, a 1 k. Rudimentary, but gets the job done.
I'd call anything fun to drive "sporty", even a lifted Jeep.
I'm pretty sure I'd own a Miata if I fit in one.
I priced out a BMW 330i convertible and it got into Corvette territory quickly. And I'd want the 340i. Or 240i if they made them still.
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https://youtu.be/id0gg2ZHLEw
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https://youtu.be/WKY-qJMXVl8
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George Harrison with his 1965 Aston Martin DB5.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/323442791_730705181555102_8959714627717347414_n.png?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=8GU8hGGns5MAX83uKTV&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCZt6UvWxe9OFZgEOyN3sjGWg0_j9vULoH2QmaGdWdXxA&oe=63BF5671)
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The Cheapest V-8 Muscle Car With A Stick In 2023
Chevrolet, gives purists and car enthusiasts a last hurrah for 2023 in the form of the Camaro LT1. The GM-owned brand just made an offer you can’t refuse. An affordable rear-wheel drive muscle car with a six-speed manual transmission! MSRP starts at $37,795.
The 6.2-liter V-8 DI Engine featured in the LT1 is a small block, 376 cubic inches naturally aspirated mill. It has variable valve timing and direct fuel injection. It produces 455 horsepower @ 6000 rpm and 455 pound-feet of torque @ 4400 rpm. This configuration is built to last and fits the muscle car ethos perfectly. No turbo, no supercharger, just bare-bones raw V-8 displacement.
It also allows for the 245/40R20 all-season Blackwall, run-flat tires to have enough grip on the rear axle when you put the pedal to the metal. In any case, as mentioned above, driver aids will help you stay out of trouble should you get too carried away. In this trim, traction control, and electronic stability control, along with a limited-slip rear differential are standard.
So, if you are in the market for a brand-new V-8-powered muscle car with a manual transmission, you only really have three options. While the Dodge Challenger and upcoming 2023 Mustang S650 offer a stick, the Camaro LT1 is currently the most affordable option, coming in at $37,795.
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1979 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM (barrett-jackson.com) (https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1979-PONTIAC-FIREBIRD-TRANS-AM-261634)
36 miles!!
(https://i.imgur.com/zw8K4YC.jpg)
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buy it
you have enough boats
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If I was gonna go down that road, it would be for this:
(https://i.imgur.com/qiAblIY.jpg)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/326176166_580294696846979_8818719143834815606_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CyWQ6StyKQkAX9-_Jsr&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA0iFVuwxFKaSKDe1_my1wgSoU_F_PwDUk1L9Cp4jmPmw&oe=63CFC7A9)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/314822142_2598742946934858_3708674369511827117_n.png?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=MMrD6jOjhGMAX9-Ry6X&tn=1aDD2LH8MXkA8yGv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAX9TYoOYLndw-3xfiFea5xr1Vqvrt2QuMlGJecMWo1vw&oe=63CFCFF9)
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CO?
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CO?
CO two?
just wear a mask
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Wear a face diaper?
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I used to ride in the rear window like that as a wee lad
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GM Confirms a New Small-Block V8 Is Coming | The Drive (https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-confirms-a-new-small-block-v8-is-coming?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3tag90nGpEJ8Fa40K07i2iXTOvQ2yisAKtLp_obLD-fsfAYk0o_8g-QJ0)
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]GM showed its hand a little bit in the announcement. It stated that the sixth-gen small block will "strengthen our industry-leading lineup of [/color]full-size pickups (https://www.thedrive.com/news/big-2024-chevy-silverado-hd-refresh-adds-new-interior-new-face-and-zr2-trim)[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)] and [/color]SUVs (https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/2023-cadillac-escalade-v-first-drive-review-the-ridiculousness-is-the-point)[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]." That means we'll still be seeing V8-powered behemoths on the road for the foreseeable future. It didn't mention anything about the Corvette, Camaro, or other recipients of the engine, though. Keep in mind the [/color]C8 Corvette Stingray (https://www.thedrive.com/news/christian-von-koenigsegg-says-the-c8-chevy-corvette-is-mind-blowing)[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)] still receives a fifth-gen small block, the LT2.[/color]
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I'll probably have one someday
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Chevrolet Motorsports officials confirmed to MC&T and attending media at Daytona International Speedway that the new Corvette Z06 GT3.R is priced from $735,000 USD, making it the most expensive Corvette ever to be sold by Chevrolet.
But if you want one, it’s not so fast. The Corvette Z06 GT3.R is a track-only, purpose-built FIA GT3 race car, and its purpose is exactly that: to race all over the world. And Chevy intends to prioritize race teams as customers for this radical C8.
Chevrolet is currently working through a “team selection process” but was not ready to announce who any of those teams may be. That said, early demand and interest for the Corvette Z06 GT3.R has been “triple or quadruple” what they were expecting. Chevy has not taken any deposits yet, but will be prioritizing actual racers and race teams ahead of collectors and enthusiasts otherwise. At the moment, Chevrolet has announced 20 units of the Corvette Z06 GT3.R, the homologation minimum for GT3.
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My wife started talking about how easy it is to egress an SUV. I parked on a slope the other day and with a car next to me had to work to get out of the car. I guess the time is coming. She asked me if Mazdas were decent and I said yes. I hope to forestall her for a few years so I can enjoy shifting gears.
Someone who parks near us has a Macan she says she likes, I'm not going that way.
Might check into a plug in hybrid miniSUV in a few years, maybe many years. Our GTI is still going strong. Did I mention I dislike SUVs?
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almost as often as I do
I doubt I ever own one
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My wife started talking about how easy it is to egress an SUV. I parked on a slope the other day and with a car next to me had to work to get out of the car. I guess the time is coming. She asked me if Mazdas were decent and I said yes. I hope to forestall her for a few years so I can enjoy shifting gears.
Someone who parks near us has a Macan she says she likes, I'm not going that way.
Might check into a plug in hybrid miniSUV in a few years, maybe many years. Our GTI is still going strong. Did I mention I dislike SUVs?
Some higher-end trucks and SUVs have retractable side steps, they deploy when you open the door and make it easier to enter and exit the vehicle, but retract back out of the way when the doors are closed.
My F150 has them and my i s c & a aggie wife loves them.
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We're gonna go SUV in the next year or so. Still like the Mercedes, which probably won't change, unless we go Porsche.
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Better driving dynamics than most cars. ( assuming you end up with one of the models you had been eyeing up).
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Yeah, my ideas have not changed. Just waiting on the market to cool. It's finally starting to do that. Starting to see more and more inventory.
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Yea my daughter is 15 and I've been looking at the used car market for her-- it's been brutal for the past 2 years, but things are looking up, now. Inventory's up slightly, prices coming down slightly.
To keep this on topic, this is what she REALLY wants--
(https://i.imgur.com/W8cnRX5.jpg)
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Yea my daughter is 15 and I've been looking at the used car market for her-- it's been brutal for the past 2 years, but things are looking up, now. Inventory's up slightly, prices coming down slightly.
To keep this on topic, this is what she REALLY wants--
(https://i.imgur.com/W8cnRX5.jpg)
I am guessing - since she is your kid- she is extremely responsible and probably mature beyond her years. Still that is a lot of car for a young person. You thinking that- or something else?
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She doesn't really care about the engine so I wouldn't get her the V8. As long as the turbo-4 has enough power to merge onto the highway safely (which my non-turbo-4 starter car most certainly did NOT, which was wildly unsafe). I'll definitely have to test drive it first, to make sure it's not a similar death-trap.
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She doesn't really care about the engine so I wouldn't get her the V8. As long as the turbo-4 has enough power to merge onto the highway safely (which my non-turbo-4 starter car most certainly did NOT, which was wildly unsafe). I'll definitely have to test drive it first, to make sure it's not a similar death-trap.
😂😂. Great answer.
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Yep, my son is about 6 months away from his 16th birthday, so he's starting to think about it.
He had the damn gall to ask me what I thought about him buying the Jeep from me. "Uhh, it's not for sale." :sign0135:
He's an extraordinarily respectful and level-headed kid. Ain't putting him in a Mustang. No way.
I'd consider helping him buy a Jeep if we find a good one and a reasonable price (long shot), but I'm really hoping to get him into a pickup. Biggest thing is he's going to need extended cab if it's a truck so he can drive his (2) siblings once he's legally allowed.
But it'd be pretty convenient to have a pickup available again whenever I need it lol...
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She doesn't really care about the engine so I wouldn't get her the V8. As long as the turbo-4 has enough power to merge onto the highway safely (which my non-turbo-4 starter car most certainly did NOT, which was wildly unsafe). I'll definitely have to test drive it first, to make sure it's not a similar death-trap.
Hell, my first car was a 1985 1/2 Ford Escort. This was in 1994ish.
Yes, I said 1/2. 1985 powertrain with 1986 body. A very sexy shade of beige (after it had been repainted by the previous owner).
4-speed manual. And it most definitely did NOT have enough power to merge onto a highway safely. Still managed to get ticketed for squealing the tires tho...
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Yeah my first car was a 1981 Dodge Omni. A real POS with zero power. But it made up for that by having terrible vapor lock issues that left me stranded almost daily during the summer.
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Oh, here's one with some fancy racing stripes!
(https://i.imgur.com/q27OkCS.png)
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I know it's difficult to roll a car over on it's top, because I've not accomplished it yet.
But, I'd never allow a person's first vehicle to be a convertible
just in case
in my experience, first vehicles have the highest percentage chance of being in a fender bender or worse accident
I'd lean towards something that doesn't cost too much to repair or replace
Like an 81 Dodge Omni or 1985 1/2 Ford Escort
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The Mustang turbo 4 is pretty "peppy". I rented one once, I actually didn't like it at all, but that's another story.
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Tested: 2023 Nissan Versa Is Cheap without Being Bare-Bones (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42690115/2023-nissan-versa-sr-by-the-numbers/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR3LkHgAhrWZ8UjQnWlKlyFPz8Okt6j6bj0pwjnNy_uEDUKaRyq8r2i8bss)
Might be the least sporty car you can buy today, but relative to cars 30 years ago, it's decent. I hate CVTs.
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So we should just rename this thread "Cars" then? :)
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I know it's difficult to roll a car over on it's top, because I've not accomplished it yet.
But, I'd never allow a person's first vehicle to be a convertible
just in case
in my experience, first vehicles have the highest percentage chance of being in a fender bender or worse accident
I'd lean towards something that doesn't cost too much to repair or replace
Like an 81 Dodge Omni or 1985 1/2 Ford Escort
I don't know anything about the 1985 1/2 Ford Escort, but there's zero chance I'd ever put my child in the death trap that is a 1981 Dodge Omni.
Now, a 1977 Monte Carlo, on the other hand, could be a possibility.
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1975 Electra 225 would be fine.
(https://i.imgur.com/0Dxb30T.jpg)
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One of my friends had basically this car. It was not sporty.
(https://i.imgur.com/lE6j35M.png)
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My best friend had this:
(https://i.imgur.com/OtpDWdx.jpg)
And then this:
(https://i.imgur.com/MXWWJ6I.png)
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I know it's difficult to roll a car over on it's top, because I've not accomplished it yet.
Strangely, I haven't either. I did roll my parents' Ford Aerostar on its side back when I was in HS. Funny story about that:
So as the tow company was rolling it back to greasy side down I was sitting in the Police Cruiser with the responding officer. The tow truck driver simply hooked his winch to a high-side frame rail and was just pulling until the weight got over center and the van would fall down on its wheels. I asked the officer if that would hurt the van. Dryly and with no hesitation he replied: "Not nearly as much as you rolling the other way hurt it."
But, I'd never allow a person's first vehicle to be a convertible
just in case
They aren't as dangerous as they seem. Since about the mid 1970's the A Pillar is required to be sturdy enough to hold up in a rollover so the occupants will not get squished.
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if they are wearing seat belts properly
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One of my friends had basically this car. It was not sporty.
(https://i.imgur.com/lE6j35M.png)
it looked sporty
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brother had a 78 Monte, first year it was downsized
gutless
but a huge upgrade over his first car
1976 Vega hatchback
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What was with that late 70s/early 80s cars? Huge. Slow. Brown. What goes with brown? TAN!!!
It was just all bad. Mustang Fox body. Ford LTD. Even Ferraris only had like 200 hp.
WTF?
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Pollution mandates hit hard.
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it was worth it
we saved the planet
for a couple more decades
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So we should just rename this thread "Cars" then? :)
It's a lot more fun to drive a slow car quickly, than to drive a fast car slowly.
Think about how much of a hoot it is to take a go-kart right out to the edge (and occasionally past) its limits. Vs white-knuckling a supercar because you know that you don't have the balls to ever reach it's limits, and if you mistakenly exceed them, you're probably gonna die.
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It's a lot more fun to drive a slow car quickly, than to drive a fast car slowly.
funhaters
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The most fun you can have driving is driving fast off-road/crazy bumpy, rocky dirt roads.
I absolutely don't understand the 2 mph rock-crawler Jeep community.
.
However, driving quickly off-road does tend to break stuff on your vehicle, so that's a thing. But damn, it's fun!
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The most fun you can have driving is driving fast off-road/crazy bumpy, rocky dirt roads.
I absolutely don't understand the 2 mph rock-crawler Jeep community.
.
However, driving quickly off-road does tend to break stuff on your vehicle, so that's a thing. But damn, it's fun!
It's about conquest, overcoming the insurmountable.
I can drive on bumpy roads in anything. Some vehicles do it better than others but even a Yugo can make it across a bumpy road.
Ascending or descending something that 99% of vehicles find completely impassable though--- that's something unique and special.
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It's the same as building a ship in a bottle: slow, tedious, and boring. imo
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Sure.
And opinions are like assholes
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I invite you to go 50+ mph on an ungraded dirt road in a Yugo, btw. I hope your thumb works, because you're gonna need to hitch a ride.
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I've done overlanding, I've done rock crawling, I've done back country driving on washboards to get to pristine remote camping. I enjoy a little something about all of it.
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There are a lot of passions out there that I, and many others, don't "understand", as if our understanding is somehow necessary for them to be passions.
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2023 Ford F-Series Super Duty's New Diesel Throws Down 1,200 LB-FT, Drags 40,000 Pounds (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-ford-f-series-super-duty-engine-towing-payload-specs/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR28zE1Y6_fBpH46UxJRJ9lyKXjLVnyNq972dd5EP--bV1LNnEGl5RwjaKM)
Probably not really sporty ...
I guess the brakes are up to it?
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Probably the most fun car I've ever had:
(https://i.imgur.com/VCshAXD.png)
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2023 Ford F-Series Super Duty's New Diesel Throws Down 1,200 LB-FT, Drags 40,000 Pounds (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023-ford-f-series-super-duty-engine-towing-payload-specs/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR28zE1Y6_fBpH46UxJRJ9lyKXjLVnyNq972dd5EP--bV1LNnEGl5RwjaKM)
Probably not really sporty ...
I guess the brakes are up to it?
The tow vehicle's brakes should not be doing any of the stopping for a trailer, the trailer's own brakes are tasked with that responsibility.
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Hopefully unless you want to switch directions
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There are a lot of passions out there that I, and many others, don't "understand", as if our understanding is somehow necessary for them to be passions.
Never said that.
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https://youtu.be/_Bapnbp8VGo
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Lightning Lap 2023: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42387169/lightning-lap-2023/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0YM1d6kc-_-nYb2E6Hv-w3j7isqMq5pXgn5iF1FOz_ppXlMHeUWcPy2eg)
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2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing at Lightning Lap 2023 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42387026/2023-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-lightning-lap-2023/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR0VG4-mu0GBugNlzzn2FjVhebkBI5Awe4tlR5z83pv4yMKyObYLTrTcnXE)
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Lightning Lap 2023: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42387169/lightning-lap-2023/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0YM1d6kc-_-nYb2E6Hv-w3j7isqMq5pXgn5iF1FOz_ppXlMHeUWcPy2eg)
Love these.
had the Audi RS3 a few years back. Blast!
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(https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42387074/2023-toyota-gr-corolla-morizo-edition-lightning-lap-2023/)
2023 Toyota GR Corolla Morizo Edition (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42387074/2023-toyota-gr-corolla-morizo-edition-lightning-lap-2023/)
Lap Time: 2:59.6
The GR Corolla called the police on us at least five times. Bounce it off a curb or slam on the brakes before entering a corner, and the GR, perhaps thinking it's a normal Toyota, calls 911. An unamused sheriff visited VIR, leading an on-hand Toyota technician to disable the system. Otherwise, when it wasn't narcing on us, the GR gave us fits of laughter.
Oops...
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2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 at Lightning Lap 2023 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42387101/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-lightning-lap-2023/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2nR3e_NSZZGQGhd_Lc7h7WTlY4rNzgBiAbIjZ_oUa5bY-jlveuNnc490s)
The Z06's 2:38.6 time is the fifth fastest in Lightning Lap history, and it's also the best lap time for a car with a naturally aspirated engine. Everything quicker is considerably faster down the straights and costs more than twice as much. Please don't think the engine is a weak point—far from it. Out on the street, this Z06 is all motor, screaming at 8500 rpm, startling pedestrians with its wail. But on the street, there is no safe way to exploit the lofty limits of this chassis. It's capable of 1.22 g's in Turn 1 and averages 133.4 mph when ascending the Climbing Esses. The longer we lapped it, the more we concluded that this Corvette is really meant for the track.
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Yeah, I wouldn't even know where one of those could be driven around here.
These old farts are bad enough drivers as it is, and during "season" there are a whole lot more of them wandering about, seemingly aimlessly.
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Yeah, I wouldn't even know where one of those could be driven around here.
These old farts are bad enough drivers as it is, and during "season" there are a whole lot more of them wandering about, seemingly aimlessly.
Preach. Oh my is it bad over here.
we (me and the better half) will typically grab the cars on an early Saturday or Sunday, drive due west from the coast until we get to where the roads are empty and safe to “play on”.
Takes about 25 minutes to get out there.
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I have a route for you (in April or May perhaps).
You could probably do it in half of this time. Lots of room to "play" on this route.
(https://i.imgur.com/jCbJlW8.png)
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I have a route for you (in April or May perhaps).
You could probably do it in half of this time. Lots of room to "play" on this route.
(https://i.imgur.com/jCbJlW8.png)
Looks like a whole lot of straight, flat, roads.
This would be a lot more fun:
(https://i.imgur.com/R5OBbUE.png)
(Admittedly you also need to wait for different temps because this is sometimes closed in the winter due to snow at higher elevations.)
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Probably, but that route wouldn't HB to my house.
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I have a route for you (in April or May perhaps).
You could probably do it in half of this time. Lots of room to "play" on this route.
(https://i.imgur.com/jCbJlW8.png)
Her and I are laughing. We have done this route several times! In fact- when I picked up my Hellcat Charger back in 17 that’s not far from where I bought it.
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Looks like a whole lot of straight, flat, roads.
This would be a lot more fun:
(https://i.imgur.com/R5OBbUE.png)
(Admittedly you also need to wait for different temps because this is sometimes closed in the winter due to snow at higher elevations.)
That does look like fun! Last April we went to the Smokey mountains for some canyon carving runs. Such a blast! It’s not cheap to take 2 cars- but she is a very skilled driver from our numerous tract days, loves it as much as me, and it’s a great place to play cat and mouse.
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To be honest, that (Angeles Crest Hwy) is one of the most famous twisty bits in SoCal (with Mulholland Hwy being another). Which means it's probably got too many cars, motorcycles, and those cars/bikes with the flashing blue/red lights and sirens, to be able to actually wring it out and have much fun.
Much like I've heard Deal's Gap gets on a summer weekend--it's more of a parade than anything that will get the heart rate elevated.
But the nice thing about living near mountains is that there are a TON of similar roads that nobody but the die-hards know about--largely because they don't really "go anywhere" that would get a ton of traffic. That is where the real fun happens.
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I'm not a big fan of switchbacks. I'm afraid of heights. I'll take the long, flat road any time.
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The Cherohala Skyway is pretty fun though it too gets crowded now. It really doesn't go much of anywhere.
Cherohala Skyway – Mile High Legend – Robbinsville North Carolin to Tellico Plains Tennessee (https://cherohala.com/)
(https://i.imgur.com/tk7KdFG.jpg)
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I'm not a big fan of switchbacks. I'm afraid of heights. I'll take the long, flat road any time.
I get ya. When I did the Haleakala crater hike back in 2018, the last 2.5 miles is switchbacks up a cliff face. The trail was probably 4 feet wide, but I was hugging the rock the whole time because I share that fear of heights.
I noticed quickly after riding a motorcycle on the track that despite being higher likelihood of crashing on the track--because I was riding closer to the limits--I was a lot less scared than on the road. In fact, after riding on a racetrack, street riding freaked me out because of the distracted cager traffic in populous areas and the mountain roads where a crash means you're sliding into a rock face, or sliding off of the edge of one.
But overall it's hard. I don't get much thrill from straight-line speed (and it can attract a lot of unwelcome legal attention). I get a thrill from cornering. And outside of twisty mountain roads--and racetracks--there aren't a lot of places where you can scratch that itch.
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I hear ya.
I took that Southern road to Hana (on Maui) because the google bitch sent me that way.
It was terrifying. Dirt mostly. 8 feet wide. Look right - cliff. F that.
Needless to say we took the Northern road back.
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US 64 from Franklin to Highlands is "entertaining". To be in use today as a US highway, it's perhaps the worst I've been on in terms of being narrow, crooked, and high. The US 129 "Dragon" road is very crooked but never gets high or has cliffs. Deal's Gap is something like 1700 feet. I recall driving that back in the day when there would not be many cars and no bikes on it. You get a bit queasy with the switchbacks.
There is a road coming into Yellowstone from the north that is entertaining, but it's wide and modern.
Dramatic Scenic Drive on Beartooth Highway to Yellowstone (yellowstonepark.com) (https://www.yellowstonepark.com/road-trips/scenic-drives/beartooth-highway-scenic-drive/)
(https://i.imgur.com/ytTBtpC.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/uwDfru0.png)
US 64 I mentioned above.
(https://i.imgur.com/GpmExZR.png)
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2023 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 at Lightning Lap 2023 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a42387101/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-lightning-lap-2023/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2nR3e_NSZZGQGhd_Lc7h7WTlY4rNzgBiAbIjZ_oUa5bY-jlveuNnc490s)
The Z06's 2:38.6 time is the fifth fastest in Lightning Lap history, and it's also the best lap time for a car with a naturally aspirated engine. Everything quicker is considerably faster down the straights and costs more than twice as much. Please don't think the engine is a weak point—far from it. Out on the street, this Z06 is all motor, screaming at 8500 rpm, startling pedestrians with its wail. But on the street, there is no safe way to exploit the lofty limits of this chassis. It's capable of 1.22 g's in Turn 1 and averages 133.4 mph when ascending the Climbing Esses. The longer we lapped it, the more we concluded that this Corvette is really meant for the track.
I'd save a few bucks and have the regular C8, no need to pull 1.22 G's
but, I'd love to have that ZO6 engine!
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Yeah, I'd go with a C8 convertible myself, it's more than fast enough, and I agree about the flat plane soundtrack.
This is one thing I dislike about 4 cylinders. The BMW in line 6 sounds pretty good also.
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(https://i.imgur.com/aYNKjFf.png)
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I hated those when I was a kid. It was so un-Porsche. But they're perfectly good, objectively.
I liked this car or that car as a kid, but once the Ferrari F-40 came out, that was it. First road card over 200 mph.
.
They're obviously janky compared to anything this century, but their value has jumped into multi-million dollar range.
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It's the Lamborghini Countach for me. Absolute dream car then and still is.
But yeah, modern Hondas and Subarus can probably blow that thing off the track these days.
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Specifically, this one:
(https://i.imgur.com/tkyAWWJ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/xmOEopn.png)
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I can't drive my GTI at 90%, so anything more capable is wasted on me.
I'm sorta warming up to the miniute concept.
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(https://i.imgur.com/vpZQwXU.png)
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From the Archive: 1982 Cadillac Cimarron Road Test (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42794529/1982-cadillac-cimarron-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2GEgvwNzyk-CbOThs65WYzmMtltkjWj6mvcekhCYgdkYe9lJ9hikVgGOE)
13.7 seconds to 60 ...
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Caddy really screwed up back in those days. The Cimmeron was a Chevy Cavalier.
Then they did the Catera. Ouch...
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weren't too many automakers back in 82 that weren't screwing up
maybe honda and Mercedes
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for @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870)
The Porsche 911 Speedster first appeared in 1989 as an homage to the 356 Speedster of the Fifties. Since then, it has returned for the 964, 993, 997, and 991 generations of the rear-engine sports car. That last Speedster was a particular highlight, essentially a GT3 convertible, and it proved to be a hit with customers, selling all 1948 planned examples in swift fashion. Now, Porsche will reportedly soon release a 992 Speedster that continues in the vein of its predecessor.
© Porsche
The 992 Speedster will make its debut at the Los Angeles Auto Show, the U.K.'s Car magazine reports. The November event is one of Porsche's favorite venues for important new models (last year, the company brought out the 911 Dakar). Like the 991, the 992 Speedster will apparently share its 4.0-liter naturally aspirated flat-six with the 911 GT3, and receive a cut-down windshield and a large rear clamshell with aerodynamic hoops behind the seats. Unlike the 991 and every other Porsche Speedster, Car says the 992 will have a power-operated top, and additional luggage space behind the seats.
Traditionally, a Porsche Speedster is a stripped-back lightweight, and in the case of the 911, that means doing away with the power top mechanism. A power soft top might not be the purist's choice here, but the Speedster's manual tops are finicky at best. Owners might welcome the convenience at the expense of weight.
It's easy to see why Porsche is making another Speedster. Enthusiasts trip over themselves to buy any special-edition 911 that comes down the pike, so this is easy profit for Porsche. Plus, this is Porsche's 75th year, so all the more reason to do more special editions.
The last Speedster carried a $275,000 MSRP, and we wouldn't be surprised to see this one crest the $300,000 mark. What is almost certain is that Porsche enthusiasts will put down whatever it costs to get one.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/334779431_3073875376251504_7349128558779416225_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=StRV795zr8AAX9e00xF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBMTrYrZpPWe_iQLivXQLQn7GRHGTSUTOmasGL4rUMIpQ&oe=6412ED78)
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I wonder if there is more of a market for a "stripped down" vehicle, a sports car with no AC etc. and very light weight, per above. I wonder how much one could strip from a car to save weight, power windows? I don't think the manual mechanisms exist any more for new cars. Power seats? They have to be fairly heavy. Take out the fancy stereo system. Use smaller diameter wheels.
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For the 1955 model year, Chevrolet’s passenger car was transformed
For the 1955 model year, Chevrolet’s passenger car was transformed by a ground-up redesign that offered something that the previous years didn’t– stylish sizzle. The wheelbase and series names, One-Fifty, Two-Ten and Bel Air, were about the only things that were carried over. 1955 brought about big improvements that included better brakes, handling, steering and interior room. New was the 265 cubic-inch V8 (162 hp) and an improved 235 cubicinch six-cylinder engine (123 and 136 hp versions). The Bel Air-based Nomad was also introduced for the ’55 model year. Chevy had transitioned from producing a pedestrian family car to a distinctive, sporty, youthful car. Other than the dramatic new styling, the new V8 was probably the most important feature for the 1955 model– the most changed Chevrolet since World War II. With a slick new body and that powerful new engine, Chevrolet advertised the 1955 as “The Hot One”. Models available ranged from 2 to 4 door, sedan, coupe, station wagon, and convertible. Solid, as well as twotone colors were available with the upper fenders, roof and rear deck painted one shade and a chrome strip molding separating the body side color. Chevrolet produced a record number of cars and trucks in 1955, which accounted for a quarter of all car and truck sales in the United States. The 1955 Chevy had a classic simplicity of design that was a great success, and new power to match!
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(https://i.imgur.com/soJA2bA.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/0akkFSi.jpg)
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That is a pretty dramatic styling change of course, and it worked.
The Chevrolet 265 V8 was first introduced in 1955 and was the first small block V8 ever produced by GM. The 265 was designed for the most part to save the Corvette from being chopped due to the fact that only 700 Corvettes were sold for the 1955 model year. People were looking for something stronger than the Chevy 235 (https://www.enginefacts.com/chevrolet235/) which was only good for 150 horsepower. So in just a little less than 4 months the 265 went from the drawing board to a production engine. This impressive little small block V8 produced between 162 and 195 horsepower depending on the carburetor setup and greatly helped revive the numbers of sells for the Corvette.
Although the 265 Chevy V8 did a lot for the evolution of the small block engines it was chopped for the 1957 production year and replaced by the popular Chevy 283 V8 (https://www.enginefacts.com/chevrolet283/) small block. One major drawback that the 265 V8 had was that it was produced with nothing built into the block to assist with the filtration of oil. There was an oil filter that was added during production on the housing for the thermostat but it was not adequate enough to give the engine any long term durability.
Chevy 265 V8 Engine Specs, Horsepower, Problems : Engine Facts.com (https://www.enginefacts.com/chevrolet265/)
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I wonder if there is more of a market for a "stripped down" vehicle, a sports car with no AC etc. and very light weight, per above. I wonder how much one could strip from a car to save weight, power windows? I don't think the manual mechanisms exist any more for new cars. Power seats? They have to be fairly heavy. Take out the fancy stereo system. Use smaller diameter wheels.
I looked at the difference between the LT1 and LT2 trim packages in the C8 Corvette
There would be some weight saved (50lbs?) and also $7,300
14 Bose speakers instead of 10?
Head-up display - never tried it
wireless charging - I don't mind the cord
connected navigation system - my phone words OK
performance data and video recorder
universal home remote - not saving weight, still gonna have the garage door clicker
heated folding outside mirrors
Front camera - for the bumper/spoiler
rear camera mirror - probably tough to see out the back window
memory driver and passenger seats - 8 way power seat for passenger - some weight saving on the passenger side
heated and ventilated seats and heated steering wheel
__________________________
The LT3 - $4,650 more than the LT2
Maybe another 50lbs added
Fancy seat and steering wheel
but, it seems not many LT1s are purchased compared to the others and resale might be less.
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Yeah, I think to build a light(er) weight Corvette, you'd need to take out the AC to start and think about smaller wheels. Maybe with more use of lighter materials you could chip off 100 pounds, probably not worth the bother, with limited market.
Power seats? Might be another 15 lbs. Take out the radio and speakers? Ten lbs?
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mostly old men own these relatively expensive sporty cars and want some luxury
the memory seat comes with an "exit setting" to get out easier.
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Yeah, but there can be a small market for slimmed down track cars, akin to the Z06/7. I think it's a very small market.
My wife is still on me about getting in and out of the GTI because it's "low"(ish), and of course the 'Vette is quite a bit lower.
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hah, she wishes for the SUV
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I don't do any "spirited driving" any more beyond pushing a bit in a cloverleaf etc. I might as well have a RAV 4.
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I'm the same, but I'd guess I might do a bit more spirited driving behind the wheel of the C8 than the RAV4.
And I'd rather be seen and arrive in the C8.
not that it would impress anyone but me
back in my youth your car was a statement of your personality
not so much anymore
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C8 Mid-Engine Corvette vs 911 GT3 RS on Track - Onboard Video (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a32050983/c8-mid-engine-corvette-vs-gt3-rs-track-battle/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR1tALTN4U5-GafjoRvVGeEjp4d7JX5eHQUk1K9FwNiw1FZ6zuZhArFVYD8)
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the dual mode exhaust sounds loud
I like it
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(https://i.imgur.com/euHMBaY.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/zAq7GXE.png)
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I mentioned to my wife I had gone on line to look at small SUVs and she said she's always liked BMW and used the term "soon", which I interpret as meaning in the next decade or so ....
I did look at the X1 on line, seems nice enough, a bit pricey. I would like a hybrid, I think, which would mean the RAV 4 or CRV or maybe Hyundai. My daughted has a Tuscon, not the hybrid, she likes it, but says she rarely drives now anywhere.
2023 BMW X1 xDrive28i First Test: They Make ’Em Like They Used To (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-bmw-x1-first-test-review/)
2023 BMW X1 Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds (https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x1/)
One question is whether I should wait for a hybrid, plugin hybrid, or full electric. I may suggest that to her, waiting.
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One question is whether I should wait for a hybrid, plugin hybrid, or full electric. I may suggest that to her, waiting.
If the question is "sporty cars", waiting on the full electric is probably the better idea. The acceleration of EVs is pretty impressive, from everything I hear.
Granted, the issue with that is that I feel like you should wait 3-4 years beyond any point where an automaker goes EV to let them work out the kinks. Not sure where that fits with BMW at this point.
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Acceleration of EVs is good, and handling is pretty good because CoG is lower than usual. It's more a rationale to present to the wife to delay such a purchase. Our GTI, which is pretty sporty, is at 30,000 miles.
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I mentioned to my wife I had gone on line to look at small SUVs and she said she's always liked BMW and used the term "soon", which I interpret as meaning in the next decade or so ....
I did look at the X1 on line, seems nice enough, a bit pricey. I would like a hybrid, I think, which would mean the RAV 4 or CRV or maybe Hyundai. My daughted has a Tuscon, not the hybrid, she likes it, but says she rarely drives now anywhere.
2023 BMW X1 xDrive28i First Test: They Make ’Em Like They Used To (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-bmw-x1-first-test-review/)
2023 BMW X1 Prices, Reviews, and Pictures | Edmunds (https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x1/)
One question is whether I should wait for a hybrid, plugin hybrid, or full electric. I may suggest that to her, waiting.
They ride like a tin can. My wife wanted one too, so I took her to the dealer for a test drive. She drove it. Meh. And then I said, "Drive that Benz" and she did. We took it home.
Get the GLC43 and call it good. Or even the standard GLC.
You and she will be much happier with it than with that garbage BMW.
The Mid-Size AMG GLC SUV | Mercedes-Benz USA (mbusa.com) (https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/class/glc/suv/type-amg#gallery)
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She once had a 328i she really liked, so she likes Bimmers. The Mercedes GLA is the competitor for the X1.
2023 BMW X1 vs 2023 Mercedes-Benz GLA Class - The Car Connection (https://www.thecarconnection.com/car-compare-results/bmw_x1_2023-vs-mercedes-benz_gla-class_2023)
Anyway, my tactic is to delay buying anything as long as possible, and likely many current models will have been upgraded by then.
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She once had a 328i she really liked, so she likes Bimmers. The Mercedes GLA is the competitor for the X1.
2023 BMW X1 vs 2023 Mercedes-Benz GLA Class - The Car Connection (https://www.thecarconnection.com/car-compare-results/bmw_x1_2023-vs-mercedes-benz_gla-class_2023)
Anyway, my tactic is to delay buying anything as long as possible, and likely many current models will have been upgraded by then.
2 years old is the way to go. Let someone else take the beating for driving it off the lot. I've been doing that for 25 years now.
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Yeah, I know, I've had good luck buying "new" cars that are "executive models" with ~4 K miles on them. I'm just going to wait.
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Mazda Miata vs. Toyota GR86: Road & Track Comparison Test (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a42190850/mazda-miata-vs-toyota-gr86/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1LPgI9YyP0CCLGkyOyZo9x78bE5MYUzfPpjneDz8HgPyjG-CVLYcpY9wA)
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2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 N Prototype Drive: Shaping Up To Be Something Special (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-hyundai-ioniq-5-n-prototype-first-drive-review/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AAMAG%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR2meBcRMig5ZWSMgbOpUdWm_fjLBbbYQv3jd4vS8ZIfRSaLYhIzlBhi4iE)
The Hyundai Ioniq 5 Is the 2023 MotorTrend SUV of the Year (https://www.motortrend.com/news/hyundai-ioniq-5-2023-suv-of-the-year/)
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Ford and Chevy Pickups Help California Farmers Plug Levee Breach (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43324345/ford-f150-chevy-silverado-california-farmers-levee-breach/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR1LPgI9YyP0CCLGkyOyZo9x78bE5MYUzfPpjneDz8HgPyjG-CVLYcpY9wA)
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The 2023 BMW XM Is Nice to Drive, But a Confusing Proposition (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a43340357/2023-bmw-xm-review-1/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2zxn6E59_XUn-eRz1-tGceEtk03Zqe69D3TRzM4q-j2cbBW2KiSZ-jtns)
(https://i.imgur.com/VLOWvfj.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/zbZFaw8.jpg)
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Jesus, & some folks think the C8 is ugly
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Buick Regal Grand National vs Chevy Monte Carlo SS vs Olds 442 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a43044114/1985-buick-chevy-olds-muscle-car-comparison/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR1U-umrw5z0g1VgyD7HMJ4G9Zlf2uAD_puDe6P_b2MflsEYoHiRm2NliKQ)
985 Buick Regal Grand National
200-hp turbocharged V-6, 4-speed automatic, 3460 lb
Base/as-tested price: $13,565/$16,289
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 7.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.7 sec @ 87 mph
100 mph: 22.9 sec
Braking, 70–0 mph: 198 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.80 g
C/D observed fuel economy: 17 mpg
1985 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS
180-hp V-8, 4-speed automatic, 3530 lb
Base/as-tested price: $11,608/$14,430
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 7.8 sec
1/4 mile: 15.9 sec @ 86 mph
100 mph: 25.6 sec
Braking, 70–0 mph: 204 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.80 g
C/D observed fuel economy: 18 mpg
1985 Oldsmobile 442
180-hp V-8, 4-speed automatic, 3570 lb
Base/as-tested price: $11,745/$14,366
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 9.1 sec
1/4 mile: 16.6 sec @ 83 mph
100 mph: 31.3 sec
Braking, 70–0 mph: 204 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.78 g
C/D observed fuel economy: 14 mpg
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https://twitter.com/FIAWEC/status/1636918959436963841?s=20
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2011 Cadillac CTS-V Wagon Tested (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15128048/2011-cadillac-cts-v-sport-wagon-test-cadillac-cts-drive/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR1zzeRme5p4cxbHSESijIray0WrmLJ82XfbSYDZeoE45fSs-QJF0LKTu4M)
This car is the embodiment of the C/D ethos: It is fast, fun, and practical. And considering it can haul the family, the bacon, and an afternoon’s Home Depot binge with equal ease—not to mention the fact that it’ll be among the collector cars in 30 years—its base price of $64,290 is arguably reasonable. Everything about the CTS-V wagon feels like a sports car, but a glance in the rearview mirror reminds the driver that he is in a sport wagon. Ladies and gentlemen, raise your glasses to truth in advertising.
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Buick Regal Grand National vs Chevy Monte Carlo SS vs Olds 442 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a43044114/1985-buick-chevy-olds-muscle-car-comparison/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR1U-umrw5z0g1VgyD7HMJ4G9Zlf2uAD_puDe6P_b2MflsEYoHiRm2NliKQ)
985 Buick Regal Grand National
200-hp turbocharged V-6, 4-speed automatic, 3460 lb
Base/as-tested price: $13,565/$16,289
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 7.5 sec
1/4 mile: 15.7 sec @ 87 mph
100 mph: 22.9 sec
Braking, 70–0 mph: 198 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.80 g
C/D observed fuel economy: 17 mpg
1987 was better.
Tested: 1987 Buick GNX Exercises Brute Force (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33502193/tested-1987-buick-gnx/)
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and still out run by a 2022 Camry?
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The GNX was a very fast car for its time. I remain amazed at how fast family cars can be today, I never expected that to happen. I had VERY slow vehicles from 1982 to 1997 trying to save some gas (which also had gotten very cheap, unexpectedly). Then I bought a V6 minivan that seemed fast, to me. Then I got a 2005 CTS that was quasi-fast, much faster than anything I'd had before, ever.
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My current F150 is quicker, and smoother, than any car I've ever had before. It also has much better torque for towing throughout the power band, due to the twin turbochargers.
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The GNX was a very fast car for its time. I remain amazed at how fast family cars can be today, I never expected that to happen. I had VERY slow vehicles from 1982 to 1997 trying to save some gas (which also had gotten very cheap, unexpectedly). Then I bought a V6 minivan that seemed fast, to me. Then I got a 2005 CTS that was quasi-fast, much faster than anything I'd had before, ever.
Fastest production car of the Big 3 in 1987. Even the Corvette.
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https://youtu.be/qaNuG4IkiLU
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Funny seeing those bias ply (??) skinny tires on pony cars sliding all over.
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the first radial tires I remember where on my Grandfather's Buick about 73??
seemed they were slapping the cracks in the highway
He's run that thing up to 100mph on the way home from church with all the grandkids squealing with delight
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I'm not a Ford guy, but.............
1956 Continental Mark II
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/337678175_634893758464916_4471334709727172117_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=0CZxYCHQq5QAX-EV8uC&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAbqaq061NhBw_wchNP5Yu_4OJP9kBqCS3gRa05aGm4Jw&oe=64233103)
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https://youtu.be/qaNuG4IkiLU
Those are two very cool cars.
After that, Youtube suggested this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV0g5AL0u-I
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the first 3 1/2 minutes were especially brutal
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Yeah I skipped the packaged banter and just looked at the cars.
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unfortunately, none of them were anything to be proud of
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Eh, they were cool for their time. I loved my '83 Mustang GLX convertible.
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It shows, again, how far things have come.
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It shows, again, how far things have come.
Yup. As you often point out, a modern entry-level Honda sedan out-performs the top muscle cars-- and even some of the top supercars-- of 30-40 years ago.
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I had FWD cars "back in the day". If you pushed them at all in a corner, well, the front would not go where the tires were pointed. (Understeer).
I have an FWD car now with a fair bit of power and it's never understeered on me. If I accelerate quickly with it set on Comfort or Normal, the engine bogs down to prevent tire chirp, but if I do it set on Sport, that doesn't happen, I get a bit of wheel spin depending and the engine churns. Those pony cars had 5.0 L and 5.7 L engines and produced less power than my 2.0 (thanks to a turbo and FI and dual cams and a computer).
It would be interesting to see a video of it running that road course in the hands of someone competent.
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The 6.6L turbo trans am of the late 70s, produced around 260-280 net horsepower.
I can only wonder what they could get out of that kind of displacement and turbo power these days.
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well, a turbocharger and supercharger are not exactly the same thing but,.......
2015 corvette LT4 supercharged 6.2L V-8 engine is SAE-certified at 650 horsepower at 6,400 rpm and 650 lb-ft of torque at 3,600 rpm
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Turbo supercharger
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The nature of "sporty EVs" is going to change, I suspect. They will be clutchless of course, for one thing, have tremendous torque, a lot of low end weight (low CoG), and tires that are perhaps interesting if they go with low rolling resistance as an option. If they put stickier tires on it would reduce range. And most will be AWD with a lot of computerisms to send torque to each wheel independently.
They may even have "piped in sound".
I think on balance they will be very fast and rather boring.
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I've wondered about EV tires, but not enough to research them.
I suppose gas mileage can be improved with tires that easily slide on the road, but safety?
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My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits
Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream
I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
I fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime
Wind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge
Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware
Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car
Shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase
Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I've got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded at the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle at the fireside
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I know that one
so does Badge
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First Ride: 2024 Chevy Corvette E-Ray Goes from Quiet to Riot (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42525355/2024-chevrolet-corvette-e-ray-first-ride-review/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR1y7VvYyXaBp0AnR3dfTEXxtOapYKWUhGto8mUe5ChawA-rAmuMrJsThvs)
There's a weird blend of pushrod V-8 roar and George Jetson's Flying Car noise broadcasting through the cabin. Chevrolet claims the E-Ray will reach 60 mph in 2.5 seconds and cover the quarter-mile in 10.5 seconds, making it potentially the quickest Corvette to roll off the Bowling Green, Kentucky, production line. The electric motor exits the party at 150 mph, as that's all its gearing will allow. Chevrolet claims the top speed is above 180 mph.
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Top 10 Fastest Accelerating SUVs 0-60 MPH Ever Tested by MotorTrend (https://www.motortrend.com/features/fastest-suvs/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR0o3HtIebINqGMnYlw7mlLJI7gNGfcsWEsTmirDoJopLeoRfmXYsZ-jBNA)
The Quickest SUVs to 60 MPH
- 10. 2021 Dodge Durango SRT Hellcat, 3.4 Seconds
- 9. 2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio, 3.3 Seconds
- 8. 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk, 3.3 Seconds
- 7. 2020 BMW X6 M Competition, 3.3 Seconds
- 6. 2019 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, 3.2 Seconds
- 5. 2018 Mercedes-AMG GLC63 S Coupe, 3.2 Seconds
- 4. 2020 Porsche Cayenne Turbo Coupe, 3.2 Seconds
- 3. 2016 Tesla Model X P90D, 3.2 Seconds
- 2. 2020 Bentley Bentayga Speed, 3.1 Seconds
- 1. 2019 Lamborghini Urus, 3.0 Seconds
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Top 10 Fastest Accelerating SUVs 0-60 MPH Ever Tested by MotorTrend (https://www.motortrend.com/features/fastest-suvs/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR0o3HtIebINqGMnYlw7mlLJI7gNGfcsWEsTmirDoJopLeoRfmXYsZ-jBNA)
he Quickest SUVs to 60 MPH
- 10. 2021 Dodge Durango SRT Hellcat, 3.4 Seconds
- 9. 2018 Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio, 3.3 Seconds
- 8. 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk, 3.3 Seconds
- 7. 2020 BMW X6 M Competition, 3.3 Seconds
- 6. 2019 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, 3.2 Seconds
- 5. 2018 Mercedes-AMG GLC63 S Coupe, 3.2 Seconds
- 4. 2020 Porsche Cayenne Turbo Coupe, 3.2 Seconds
- 3. 2016 Tesla Model X P90D, 3.2 Seconds
- 2. 2020 Bentley Bentayga Speed, 3.1 Seconds
- 1. 2019 Lamborghini Urus, 3.0 Seconds
Nice list. I have owned two vehicles on this list. Number 10 the hellcat Durango and number eight jeep Cherokee track hawk. As far as bang for the buck, if you look at prices, these are probably two of the best.
also of note, number seven on the list, the X6M competition is the same 0 to 60 time I get in my current vehicle which is the BMW X3M competition. Traded The hellcat Durango for this vehicle which gets about 22 Mpg as opposed to 12-13, and will run Vicious circles around it on a road course.
I also have an Audi SQ8 which came from the factory with about 510 hp and ran in the high threes for the 0 to 60 run. I have tuned it and put Katlas down pipes, so now it’s about 750 hp and I’ve got it as low as 3.4 seconds in the 0 to 60
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Bentley & Lamborghini SUVs?
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Everybody makes them now.
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because everyone wants them now
well, not everyone, but I'm a shrinking minority
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Yeah, and they are usually the higher profit item versus sedans. I think Cadillac loses money on sedans, still. GM overall may lose money on sedans.
Trucks and SUVs.
You rarely see'em in Europe, especially trucks. They are a North America thing largely. Europe uses small vans for working folk and station wagons for families.
Now my wife wants one but has agreed to wait, for now.
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Misnamed list. Those are the quickest CUVs from 0-60.
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Yeah, I think the "Crossover" category is all but gone these days, but that's how I'd classify all of these.
For me, SUVs are still built on truck chassis. Anything unibody and car-based, is a crossover or CUV or something else.
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they really do need a better name
"X" utility vehicle
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A decade or so ago, I think it was BMW tried to brand their crossovers as "SAV" or "Sport Activity Vehicle." I suppose they felt that the word "utility" was beneath them, as a luxury brand. It obviously didn't stick.
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A decade or so ago, I think it was BMW tried to brand their crossovers as "SAV" or "Sport Activity Vehicle." I suppose they felt that the word "utility" was beneath them, as a luxury brand. It obviously didn't stick.
They still do.
All BMWs - SAVs | BMW USA
(https://www.bmwusa.com/all-bmws/sav.html)I've been looking at the X1, though as noted, I've been able to delay this a while. I hope.
I hope/expect in 3-4-5 years either all electric will be practical OR I'd get a plug in hybrid. The Days of sporty driving are gone.
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They still do.
Well there you have it. It's probably an apt descriptor.
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Folks lump them all together, I'm guessing some folks would see a station wagon and call it an SUV.
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Folks lump them all together, I'm guessing some folks would see a station wagon and call it an SUV.
I think people think that when they see my Ford Flex. Which is basically a station wagon, but it gets classified in crossover/SUV territory.
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station wagon
(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1062x597/format/jpg/quality/100/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2022/10/24173400/Porsche-Panamera-Sport-Turismo-luggage-test.jpg)
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2023 Volkswagen Golf GTI S Manual Tested: 0–60 MPH, ¼-Mile Results (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-volkswagen-gti-0-60-mph-tested/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR1R9pE6KJ8LSEpg9Cye7lq_ppUH-J3QuXgF26ITKuxfF4FWD8drQCzYNS4)
There isn't a perfect car of course, but our '18 is about as close to our needs as a car could be. It's a lot more comfortable at 80 mph than I expected. It's fun around town, the clutch is pretty light. I wish it had a memory driver side seat. It has room in the back for its size. I get 35 mpg+ on the highway, premium is "recommended".
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https://youtu.be/5q8u6BNkO68
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station wagon
(https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1062x597/format/jpg/quality/100/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2022/10/24173400/Porsche-Panamera-Sport-Turismo-luggage-test.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xyDzMwP.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/5di0P87.jpg)
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Some of those are definitely shaggin' wagons....
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(https://i.imgur.com/WnFgqsw.png)
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A thing we've mused about before is a regular truck with a smallish Diesel engine and a plug in battery pack able to go say 50 miles with regen brakes. That would cover a lot of trips in town for many. GM has a nice Diesel they use alone, this one could be smaller, and the electric motors on both axles would provide extra torque as needed. Your brake pads would last nearly forever. It might not be the best for towing distances.
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I cannot believe how many people drive pickup trucks here. Some are so damn big they can't fit in the parking spots, which makes for a challenge if you are next to one, with another behind you. That happened to me yesterday.
Also, how so many bigass pickups have HC placards in the windows.
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I knew a guy who had retired, lived in a condo, and told me he always wanted a pickup, so he bought one, and was thrilled with it. He admitted he had no need for it.
I think it proved his manliness. He now also refuses to drink Bud Light. If that doesn't get your steroids flowing I don't know what will.
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I have a pickup, was my only vehicle, but driving 3500 miles a month for work caused me to save fuel with an Impala
I only really needed to pickup for towing and hauling 4 or 6 times a year, but I liked it for driving in snow and ice.
if I ever move south, I won't need the 4-wheel drive and that will help with fuel mileage.
Many don't like the idea of asking to borrow a truck 4 or 5 times a year.
I only drive my truck in snow/ice or when hauling/towing now.
6 or 7 times last year
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When I needed one, I rented from Home Depot etc. for $20, 2-3 times a year.
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wasn't aware Home Depot was in the truck rental business
Home Depot is across town for me and I rarely visit
Lowes and Menards are more convenient - I haven't noticed a truck rental program
probably not needed here in the rural land of pickups
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The Menards near us in Cincy had two pickups to rent, $20. So did the Lowes. You get 75 minutes, I think, and when I went over, they didn't charge me.
We have a Home Depot sort of near us now and they have rental trucks. I can walk there if I'm not buying something heavy. I guess it is 1.5 miles walking.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43554873/2025-chevrolet-corvette-suv-682-hp-future-cars/
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not even gonna click
SUV
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not even gonna click
SUV
I clicked. Looks more like a station wagon.
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Some who parks near us has a Macan, which my wife likes a lot, this is meant to compete in that general category.
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not even gonna click
SUV
I clicked. Looks more like a station wagon.
Kinda like pre-med vs pre-law...
"What's the difference?"
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As discussed previously, SUVs are tall, have more ground clearance, and are built on truck chassis.
Station wagons are none of the above.
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As discussed previously, SUVs are tall, have more ground clearance, and are built on truck chassis.
Station wagons are none of the above.
As discussed previously, neither are most SUVs :57:
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43554873/2025-chevrolet-corvette-suv-682-hp-future-cars/
I would drive that.
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Some who parks near us has a Macan, which my wife likes a lot, this is meant to compete in that general category.
Macan is pretty small. Much prefer the Cayenne.
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I would drive that.
supercharged 682-hp 6.2-liter V-8
OK, now I'm interested
besides, it's more station wagon / sedan than SUV
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Macan is pretty small. Much prefer the Cayenne.
The Macan looks huge next to our GTI.
The "Corvette" is whatever you want to call it, I dislike the dilution of the name brand.
Though, the term "corvette" referred to a small British slow cheap destroyer type back in WW 2, what we called a "Destroyer Escort".
I don't get too worked up over what to call these things.
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Corwagon.
That would be better.
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The Macan looks huge next to our GTI.
The "Corvette" is whatever you want to call it, I dislike the dilution of the name brand.
Though, the term "corvette" referred to a small British slow cheap destroyer type back in WW 2, what we called a "Destroyer Escort".
I don't get too worked up over what to call these things.
I don't care enough to get worked up, but calling this thing a "Corvette" is about as dumb as calling the Ford EV crossover a "Mustang".
Or calling a seltzer that isn't in any way, shape, or form, beer, "Bud Light Seltzer".
In all cases you're trying to attach something that has no relationship to what made a brand what it is, to that brand. Looking like a rank opportunist, while at the same time potentially devaluing the brand that you're trying to attach to.
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I agree entirely. It would be like rebranding a Chevy Suburban as some kind of Cadillac ...
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800-HP ZR-1,1000-HP Zora Could Take C8 Corvette to New Heights (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43555939/chevrolet-c8-corvette-zr-1-zora-hybrid-future-specs/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2PYtZw5yaOcx8V8Zr0aAiwyVxmqZaq3XOEZPCYcmsx9_TpgqnQ96ITxcs)
How can one drive a 1,000 hp Corvette on the streets? Light throttle?
I guess there is a market for this?
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I agree entirely. It would be like rebranding a Chevy Suburban as some kind of Cadillac ...
I hardly think that applies. Cadillac has long been known for being the rebadged luxury version of Chevy. All they did was introduce a new model.
Likewise despite Porsche traditionally being a coupe & convertible maker, I didn't think their foray into the Cayenne and Macan, and then the Panamera, were somehow diluting their brand. They're all still luxury performance vehicles.
Now if they'd made the Cayenne and somehow tried to brand it as a 911 SUV, I'd think maybe someone over there in Stuttgart had lost their damned mind.
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yup, a Corvette is a 2 seat chevy sports car
a corvette is not something else
A camaro is a 4 seat, 2 door sports car
similar to a 911 or 928
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I hardly think that applies. Cadillac has long been known for being the rebadged luxury version of Chevy. All they did was introduce a new model.
Likewise despite Porsche traditionally being a coupe & convertible maker, I didn't think their foray into the Cayenne and Macan, and then the Panamera, were somehow diluting their brand. They're all still luxury performance vehicles.
Now if they'd made the Cayenne and somehow tried to brand it as a 911 SUV, I'd think maybe someone over there in Stuttgart had lost their damned mind.
When my wife was looking for an SUV, she looked at Lexus, Acura, Infinity, Cadillac, Lincoln and a few others. She was on her own.
I asked her why she didn't look at M-B. She had no answer really.
As we talked things through, I asked he how she liked driving the Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chevy, Ford, etc. Then I explained.
She then asked me who made M-B vehicles. My answer? M-B. That's what she got.
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Most Cadillacs have had Caddy specific frames and sometimes engines, though they have borrowed engines significantly. They developed their own engine not too long ago and barely used it, a DOHC V8 called "Blackwing", which led to confusion about the current CT5 V Blackwing, which doesn't use that engine. The Ct5 and CT4 use the alpha frame architecture, which Camaro adopted a few years back.
But the most obvious borrowing has been with the Escalade, which is of course just a Tahoe/Suburban with fancier stuff but same frame/drivetrain/etc.
It's by far their most profitable item. Their smaller "SUVs" are not very competitive vs competition.
I'm still quasi-interested in the BMW X1 but hope to hold off a few years thinking some better options will be available.
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Drive an X1. You will no longer be interested. Problem solved.
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When my wife was looking for an SUV, she looked at Lexus, Acura, Infinity, Cadillac, Lincoln and a few others. She was on her own.
I asked her why she didn't look at M-B. She had no answer really.
As we talked things through, I asked he how she liked driving the Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Chevy, Ford, etc. Then I explained.
She then asked me who made M-B vehicles. My answer? M-B. That's what she got.
My wife chose the Lexus RX. She (& I) knew full well that it is a luxury rebadged Toyota. That's a feature, not a bug. Toyota makes excellent vehicles.
We like to keep vehicles well beyond the expiration of their warranty. I.e. the goal is 10 years. I trust a fancy rebadged Toyota to last that amount of time without needing tremendous infusions of cash for maintenance, far more than anything German.
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Drive an X1. You will no longer be interested. Problem solved.
I will some day, they have very good reviews at least. I'd like to find one as close to a GTI as possible and that looks like it, to me, purely from reading.
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My wife chose the Lexus RX. She (& I) knew full well that it is a luxury rebadged Toyota. That's a feature, not a bug. Toyota makes excellent vehicles.
We like to keep vehicles well beyond the expiration of their warranty. I.e. the goal is 10 years. I trust a fancy rebadged Toyota to last that amount of time without needing tremendous infusions of cash for maintenance, far more than anything German.
We have a 2014 and still worth $25-30K - probably even more?? No payments since 2017.
We spend about $1500/year on maintenance. That's a $125/month car payment. Great deal if you can get it, for this car.
We sold the wife's SUV and replaced with a golf cart.
EV, if you will. ;)
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My only maintenance is about $100 a year for an oil change. I had to replace two tires a while back due to nails.
I'm not counting gas of course. The car is five years old, apparently worth a fair bit of change still, I only paid $31 for it.
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I don't spend extra $$$ for a shinier badge
a suburban would be my pick over an Escalade
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We'll probably be spending less on maintenance moving forward.
The big-ticket stuff is done now, until 160K miles.
We have 85K on it. Bought it in 2016 with 27K. About 7K miles/year.
I want
(https://i.imgur.com/rbIFHou.png)
next.
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ain't gonna git a side of beef in that
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Maybe a half.
We put a side in my Tahoe, right?
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yup
a side is a half
a half a side is a quarter
I was always good at math
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I don't spend extra $$$ for a shinier badge
a suburban would be my pick over an Escalade
In any sort of practical consideration, no doubt about it. But humans are not practical often as not. What is the practical value of jewelry or expensive watches? We drove around a bit in NW Atlanta yesterday marveling at the mansions, mile after mile, some look more like hotels. My wife noted the folks probably have 2-3-4 vacation homes to boot. Think of a couple living in a 12 bedroom mansion with 35 rooms overall. Practical? I guess if money means nothing to you.
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agreed, just stating my opinion
I do not own any jewelry
I live in an 1100 sq foot house with more bedrooms than I need, now that the daughters have moved out
_________________________________
but, I get it.
My 2015 Silverado has the LTZ package with leather seats and 20" chrome wheels that are certainly luxury accesories
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a list of non-sporty non-cars.............
Every 2023 Compact SUV Ranked from Worst to Best
Ranking the compact crossover SUV segment, from Bronco Sport to Tucson.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15380025/best-small-compact-suv-truck/?utm_source=facebook_dda&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=dda_fb_cd_d_i_t_g15380025&fbclid=IwAR0lNwVVVl38sFV_Vfi_uPEQmqXrMtZb7P-by3WDJzNThAAsPWA5rOsGeZw (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15380025/best-small-compact-suv-truck/?utm_source=facebook_dda&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=dda_fb_cd_d_i_t_g15380025&fbclid=IwAR0lNwVVVl38sFV_Vfi_uPEQmqXrMtZb7P-by3WDJzNThAAsPWA5rOsGeZw)
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yup
a side is a half
a half a side is a quarter
I was always good at math
I'm thinking we got a whole cow and then some. I remember making at least 4 stops on the very long way home.
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that may have been what happened
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First hybrid Chevrolet Corvette sold for $1.1 million. Here's why | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/auto/first-hybrid-chevrolet-corvette-sold-million)
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https://www.foxnews.com/auto/american-powered-honda-civic-world-speed-record
Pretty good performance for a FWD car.
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I'm amazed frankly how well FWD cars can perform today. When I first drove them, they understeered like crazy.
And getting all that power down it amazing as well without AWD.
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(https://i.imgur.com/OCVU0yS.png)
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Now that's a sporty car. Red Barchetta indeed.
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Husker RED is always a classy choice
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That looks more like Alabama's red, but whatever. All red teams are bad. Nebraska, OU, A&M, Arkansas, Houston, etc.
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That looks more like Alabama's red, but whatever. All red teams are bad. Nebraska, OU, A&M, Arkansas, Houston, etc.
~???
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UGA is red and black of course, I don't know of another team with that pairing. Ohio State is semi-close, I think. They have colors I don't recognize.
Orange is clearly the worst possible color of any stripe.
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especially if it's burnt
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UGA is red and black of course, I don't know of another team with that pairing. Ohio State is semi-close, I think. They have colors I don't recognize.
Orange is clearly the worst possible color of any stripe.
Well sure, prison jumpsuit orange or traffic cone orange, like your SEC-East rivals' colors, are indeed terrible.
Burnt orange, on the other hand, is unique, and beautiful.
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~???
Sorry badge, didn't really intend for you (or CD) to get caught in the crossfire. You know I love your Badgers. They're my second favorite B10 team!
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Anyway, it wasn't my intention to derail this thread with color talk.
To make up for it, here's a picture of a lovely burnt orange sporty car:
(https://i.imgur.com/DhDprmZ.png)
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Giant Slayers Unite: 1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 Meets 2023 Corvette Z06! (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/2023-chevrolet-corvette-z06-1990-corvette-zr-1-comparison-drive-review/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AAMAG%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR1pZpy1ZneMyNQsp-6G93a-2jFApZBGavjI02LbUfSlMJHiXquGLqK_nWA)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/342525218_912783359829766_2258964246842689927_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=INz78TW1s5kAX-kkbaF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAMfiNN7inDrBTjDLYDo6toxq3Av_ckMeJt_AKFYG5YwQ&oe=645147F5)
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I like these.
It's a hybrid, which I can stomach. Makes 164 MPH on a track.
(https://i.imgur.com/825Z77M.jpg)
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I'd drive it
wouldn't stomach the payments, but.....
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2024 Chevrolet Trax First Drive: The Cheapest Chevy Isn’t the Worst (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-chevrolet-trax-first-drive-review/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AAMAG%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR0vlfl5zaoS5ufAT8QOwEYKE411DVqNS9kZchHyFhLi13F7NG5DBuEXSQw)
Not very sporty of course, and MT usually likes every car a lot.
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That is not a sporty car. More like ugly.
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Our Long-Term 2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Powerslides through Winter to the Halfway Mark (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a41000722/2022-cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-reliability-maintenance/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR3mx6gsyi1Jwz8gJ1zNmis9ak7UufH-HIiaQiU2SafDUkYDEoXXxx18zkc)
Not a great choice for winters in MI.
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(https://brundage.com/content/uploads/gallery/snowmobile-adventures/DSC00935.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/Zq90KUP.png)
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The History of Auto Racing
Automobile racing originated in France in 1894, almost immediately after the construction of the first successful petrol-fueled autos, and it appeared in the US the following year. Open-road races were banned in France in 1903, however, after they led to 8 fatalities. Today, there are several different categories of racing. In open-wheel, stock-car, and other types of circuit auto races, flags are displayed to communicate instructions to competitors.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/345068510_3457035147905197_4249839787813349954_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=gNhtiTQYr10AX8_qwV-&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAsnYraCkxYRhSdcJs0i8Cpdv-tU_EfAOxXnso1ODiZ4A&oe=645B0387)
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Not sporty.
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yup, I wouldn't steal it w/o the wrap
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Speaking of nonsporty cars, since my wife expressed interest in a small SUV, I've been more noticing how prevalent they are, especially on our last trip. It seemed every other vehicle was a RAV4 or CRV or Ford Escape or Hyundai Tuscon ...
I get why they are popular. I think. I once had a RAV 4 as a rental whilst my car was being repaired from damage. I thought it was junk at the time, probably 2008 or so. I owned a used CRV for a time, gave it to my kids in college and a friend ruined it. I could have had him arrested.
Anyway. The CRV was boring and got poor gas mileage, it was a 5 speed at least. It was also slow. My minivan was much larger of course and got better has mileage and was about the same to drive. I'm sure the new ones are much better, but they are so prevalent, I had never really noticed before.
I saw one Ford Flex which makes some sense to me, I know someone here has one.
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Sporty SUV for ya. GLC 43.
(https://i.imgur.com/sFKewiR.png)
Even better. GLE 63.
(https://i.imgur.com/S0YZ8Qj.jpg)
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I would be looking at smaller cheaper SUVs. I'd probably look at these two, among others. My wife likes BMWs. I have no preference, except to delay this as long as possible.
BMW X1 Vs. Mercedes-Benz GLA: Small Luxury SUV Shootout | CarBuzz (https://carbuzz.com/features/bmw-x1-vs-mercedes-benz-gla-small-luxury-suv-shootout)
Compare BMW X1 vs 2023 Mercedes-Benz GLA-Class SUV | CarBuzz (https://carbuzz.com/compare/bmw-x1-vs-mercedes-benz-gla#cars=i_88722-vs-i_87416)
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Those are too small.
My wife had a GLK, which is now the GLC, and it was too small. I can get more stuff into my E sedan than I could in the GLK.
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yup, my Impala carries golf clubs and luggage better than most SUVs
especially if you don't hinder the view out the back window
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I saw one Ford Flex which makes some sense to me, I know someone here has one.
The Flex is not sporty of course, but they did offer it in AWD with a 365hp EcoBoost engine that would pull 0-60 in 5.7s.
That's almost approaching sporty, at least if you're the type to measure sportiness with 0-60 times rather than lap times...
I find it to be a wonderful vehicle overall. As I say, it's the white New Balance and khaki cargo shorts of vehicles. It's "dad cool".
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I had a flex for a rental one time. Very practical and held a lot of people and cargo.
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Those are too small.
My wife had a GLK, which is now the GLC, and it was too small. I can get more stuff into my E sedan than I could in the GLK.
They aren't too small for us in my view. We've been doing quite well with the GTI which is even smaller. I don't want a larger car. And I like that the X1 is said to retain some "sportiness", which I've yet to try out myself.
I got right at 39 mpg on the recent trip with the GTI running about 80 mph. The downside is premium is "recommended". I use midgrade at times when traveling and not able to Costco.
We had breakfast out at a place near us and I was checking out the cars parked on the street, half of them were small SUVs, and the cars driving by were about the same. I suspect they drive well enough for the average noncar person, hold enough, are cheap enough, and let you pretend they are SUVs.
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1961 Ford Unitron. Designed in the fall of 1960 in the Corporate Advanced Studio by Dean Beck, a recent graduate of the Art Center. The Unitron began as a suggestion from a Ford Division manager who believed Ford should be involved in the coming recreation vehicle market
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346051074_575528994671810_6736084824786649797_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=wx1zCxBfqWAAX8VczZ6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCiWMEVDKMyzjEqGPw1g0WzYWiGl9YbXx5opmMBTRQ0eQ&oe=6466BC0C)
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All that glass looks heavy, sort of like a ballooned up Pacer.
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Man, all those SUVs you're showing look way too small for me. This is about the smallest I could possibly go:
(https://i.imgur.com/aaZcKLH.png)
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Everyone has different needs. I prefer smaller cars generally speaking. I like the GTI quite a bit. It gets the job done.
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And this would be even better:
(https://i.imgur.com/8ymNpAE.jpg)
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We do have two parking places side by side ...
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And this would be even better:
(https://i.imgur.com/8ymNpAE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4jhpaGO.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/Vi4CLjL.png)
Is that "sporty"???
2023 Cadillac Escalade-V | MotorWeek Road Test - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sXjxcmA2Zs)
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(https://i.imgur.com/4jhpaGO.jpg)
NOW you're talking. Because sadly, not even the Yukon XL Denali can tow my RV.
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(https://i.imgur.com/Vi4CLjL.png)
Is that "sporty"???
2023 Cadillac Escalade-V | MotorWeek Road Test - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sXjxcmA2Zs)
I like it. Surprisingly, the Cadillac has now become more understated than the GMC version.
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(https://i.imgur.com/gIj9t86.jpg)
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unfortunately, GM discontinued the 3/4 ton version of the suburban and yukon for towing
but, the SUVs Utee likes are trucks with the bed covered
which I could drive
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unfortunately, GM discontinued the 3/4 ton version of the suburban and yukon for towing
but, the SUVs Utee likes are trucks with the bed covered
which I could drive
Ford did, too. I much prefer towing with an SUV over a pickup, but there are no options available anymore than can perform the task.
And yes-- as we discussed earlier, SUVs ARE based on truck frames. All these little squirt vehicles that goofs like badgerfan keeps posting, are crossovers or something. Silly little cars.
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(https://i.imgur.com/gIj9t86.jpg)
Better yet, this sporty thang:
(https://i.imgur.com/dR1ZLGW.png)
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or something
I just call a suburban a truck
it's a vehicle, but sport? or utility? wtf?
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or something
I just call a suburban a truck
it's a vehicle, but sport? or utility? wtf?
Pickup truck owners sometimes get weird when you refer to a Suburban or Tahoe as a truck, even though it's on a truck frame. More silly tribalism, I guess. I've owned both and I don't care what you call them.
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More silly tribalism, I guess. I've owned both and I don't care what you call them.
I like that BMW X1 SUV a lot.
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Let me know how you feel after you drive one.
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The car mags like them, I suspect I won't relative to the GTI, but maybe it's "OK".
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try to put off the test drive for a few years
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https://youtu.be/SBagFtYZa0U
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Nice, the Vette really hung in there at a fraction of the price (but still way expensive).
I like that the Ford GT has the same engine I have in my F150 pickup. :)
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you need to put the coon tune on that pickup
___________________________________
Showdown, you bet
And I haven't even saddled my pony yet
Have mercy, Miss Percy
I done put the coon tune on this bet
https://youtu.be/nNC-BtsLFdQ
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Bob Falfa's '55 Chevy and John Milner's '32 Ford 5-window coupe
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/345439611_1199302737438439_4764830052822427110_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=NcSMG_b20ZgAX_wtOEY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAubeBEqEeaQatfvqCZO-Ec7daZmePULbCw_7ISQ5i-tA&oe=64685CF7)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346463087_993484331677948_2936802026383906998_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=tAPvMPXOrwoAX-jgyNy&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBxQeqZ1Dm7xrs_Rzu0AuXaMnNJXsjhB7rRojW8UHhh2w&oe=646AEA52)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349123726_202986042624870_8192580086820103768_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=BvJf4flIPWQAX86e1LS&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAQjA5IA5Lr5NyQ8dnmcAITgrlA2xrlBHBsdJDPJd1XvA&oe=647585DA)
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(https://i.imgur.com/zTXktlU.png)
These usually weren't very sport of course, but it interesting how back then, automakers would make significant styling changes each year with the same basic car. Now the styling changes/updates are usually every 4-5-6-7 years with some more modest updates to relatively less conspicuous things.
The top one is not stock, the other two may be close.
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the other two are Impalas
not sure about the top one
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They are all Impalas, with three lights, the less Belairs and Biscaynes had two lights and less chrome. But the top one is clearly a restomod. It has different wheels, modern tires, and a rear antisway bar.
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you're correct, as usual
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rUUAAOSwOEZgPWbq/s-l1600.png)
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Even "muscle cars" back then came with narrow wheels and high profile tires by today's standards. A 70 series was considered low profile. The 1969 GTO had F70/14 tires (with raised white letters). Our 2016 4 cylinder Caddy CTS had 19 inch wheels with 35 profile tires (which was the problem with that car). (Acceleration was about the same for both vehicles.)
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F60/14 tires on my 70 Nova SS - 70s were stock
it needed traction bars - too much wheel hop
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Some gorgeous muscle cars out and about this morning for race day. Neighbor has a 40s Ford Roadster. Feels like you're in big trouble if this car shows up in you're driveway.
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F60/14 tires on my 70 Nova SS - 70s were stock
it needed traction bars - too much wheel hop
Mine was a '73 with the F41 suspension and 350. It was of course down on power versus 1970, and it was an automatic. The fastest cars today are nearly all all wheel drive for obvious reasons, and with very sticky rubber now available at all back in 1970. Some of those muscle cars could probably get some good times in the quarter if somehow they could be fitted with the sticky summer tires from Michelin and AWD.
I liked that old car, a lot, but it was a maintenance hog, as was typical of that period. I don't do anything today with the GTI beyond adding air to the tires (rarely) and taking it in for an oil change.
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grease zerks all over the place
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Mine tend to wear out its points every 3 months or so. I guess the distributor had issues. And of course two of the spark plugs were difficult to remove and replace. And it needed that every year or so. Change the oil every three months. Check the timing. Worry about coolant. Worry about belts. The carb was good for about 3-4 years. Worry about the choke. I spent a lot of weekends working on it at least an hour or so, getting greasy.
I only have lifted the hood on the GTI to add windshield washer fluid. My wife was impressed I knew how to manage that. It's five years old, we just passed 30,000 miles, it tells me it needs an oil change about every 11 months. Maybe I'm due for an air filter, I'd have to read on line where it even is.
How To Change Engine Air Filter on VW GTI MK7 / 7.5 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxczTLVBlrM)
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retarding the timing could lead to some back firing
there was a lot of maintenance, but most of it could be done in the back yard
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I think mine was 8° BTDC.
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your memory is better than mine
I had a 73 el camino with 4-speed and glasspack mufflers that would back fire
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350114437_184728084193276_1755344998691851894_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nPUSHkz6mpsAX9WaFKC&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCFir3Zpx807ppil4lAjDLR1M6z4pXGWfYIl3MbXwcUkQ&oe=647B340C)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349482455_770512924783456_3734202520016225728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cUyOgEbBCVcAX86GWM5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCH8HackYhWD02_fZL7b1XkSO29iQ_Uh6rYqwME7Scisw&oe=647B93EC)
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I like that the tag says "coupe" so you know without looking it's not a sedan ...
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Here's another coupe. Probably needs a tag that tells you so...
(https://i.imgur.com/der5uUP.jpg)
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De Ville?
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My ex grandmother in law had a badly faded red two door Deville. We were at her beach house and I set out to give it a wax job to bring back some color. The hood was like a football field. It took me all afternoon to wax the front of the car, and then she said it looked weird. She liked that pinkish faded red I guess.
OK then.
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De Ville?
Yup, 1970.
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(https://i.imgur.com/SV2ADsG.png)
These had an optional 7.7 L engine, 472 CID. THey weighed about 4650 pounds and cost about $6 K.
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(https://i.imgur.com/6s7JejL.png)
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Nice, nimble-looking coupes.
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Watch: Georgia Driver Launches Off Tow Truck Ramp Dukes of Hazzard-Style (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/georgia-tow-truck-ramp-crash-jump/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR1GU4xQRxgoSg0yb7VXa7DJQ93A-jb0i31tmUNMBB9WTG2oGAkJHYLPv9Q)
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She liked that pinkish faded red I guess.
OK then.
Being pink and faded herself she knew you'd understand
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flagship Tulsa???
WTF??
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Watch: Georgia Driver Launches Off Tow Truck Ramp Dukes of Hazzard-Style (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/georgia-tow-truck-ramp-crash-jump/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR1GU4xQRxgoSg0yb7VXa7DJQ93A-jb0i31tmUNMBB9WTG2oGAkJHYLPv9Q)
When Florida man strays too far north.
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When Florida man strays too far north.
It was a woman.
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(https://i.imgur.com/V7b99T0.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/V7b99T0.png)
I bet that machine drivers VERY sporty...
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I bet it was a sled, front wheel drive, not a car for corners at all of course.
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One of my friends had one of those in HS. It had the Cadillac 500 V8. Drank a ton of gas.
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Vintage Video Double Feature: Chevrolet Learns You Some Stuff (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/video-double-feature-learn-with-chevrolet-technical-automotive-how-it-works/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AAMAG%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR3bUBLkt0NLJKiArVEbApldmYdk0fTDlMe04gPLoiitOXeXcOs9pAV4ohI)
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Saw one of these on the road yesterday on my way back from the grocery store. Absolutely stunning car.
(https://i.imgur.com/RA8SQiW.png)
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I wish someone would gift me one of those
I trade it on a new C8 Z06 and pocket the extra cash
I'd have to go to Minneapolis or Kansas City for service on the McLaren C12
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Saw one of these on the road yesterday on my way back from the grocery store. Absolutely stunning car.
(https://i.imgur.com/RA8SQiW.png)
Yeah, the crazy thing about living in SoCal is how often I see these around town lol...
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(https://i.imgur.com/W3VnLcO.png)
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(https://www.corvetteblogger.com/images/content/2023/020723_16b.jpg)
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Funny how those cars look fairly similar ...
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Funny how those cars look fairly similar ...
Yeah, they're all designed by the same computer programs to optimize performance in the same wind tunnel.
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It's not only wind tunnel of course, it's also for cooling, which gets to be a serious issue with midengine cars. Then there is downforce which is why the Z07 package has those large spoilers on the back end, and front aero tricks as well. That Vette has the Z07 package on it.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347249736_534482075375461_7518811590497760173_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=M6Z7iDGac8IAX9kRiFn&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBzHSt3gcnQClG0EMn-CPxlzTY-MDz3dc_L1VkfmlJB0Q&oe=647D36CF)
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The McLarens are nice, but IMO the absolute best looking cars in the world right now, are Aston Martin.
(https://i.imgur.com/QD7kUga.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/X9wf669.jpg)
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We should construct a list of top ten best looking current cars ...
... or not.
(https://i.imgur.com/wD7Qf5S.png)
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It's not only wind tunnel of course, it's also for cooling, which gets to be a serious issue with midengine cars. Then there is downforce which is why the Z07 package has those large spoilers on the back end, and front aero tricks as well. That Vette has the Z07 package on it.
Of course. I was being deliberately simplistic.
Essentially, though, the idea is that they're all solving for the same issues.
First is that you need two human-sized seats, one of which has access to the vehicle controls. There are only so many places you can put the driver and so many shapes you can ask them to conform to without being TOO uncomfortable.
Second is performance, which pushes you into mid-engine designs for weight distribution and traction. Which also involves downforce, and reducing drag coefficient as much as you can EXCEPT as it relates to downforce production.
Third are the effects of that performance, which is the need to cool your engine and brakes, which is why you're going to have air intakes in the same places on all cars of similar design and capabilities.
---------------------
But where I came from was once hearing my dad complain about all the cars looking the same. Of course they look the same. Vehicles of a certain class, i.e. mid-sized CUVs for example, are all trying to accomplish the same thing regarding occupant seating and comfort, cargo capacity, aerodynamics/fuel efficiency. Since they're all designed to meet the same constraints, it's simple to understand why they all end up with the same solution, and all you have to distinguish is little styling cues. So I came up with the (short and oversimplified) saying of they're all the same because they're all designed by the same computer programs and optimized for the same wind tunnel.
In past eras, when we didn't understand aerodynamics, and gas was cheap, you had a lot more design freedom.
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Agreed that Aston Martins are some of the best-looking vehicles on the road today.
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Love the look of this.
(https://i.imgur.com/UbGumdS.jpg)
and this
(https://i.imgur.com/zYTNN5g.jpg)
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Humans seem to like seeing swoopy sporty cars with long hoods and a low slung chassis.
Humans also like color, seeing plant blooms, fall colors, paintings, colorful uniforms. We like waterfalls, the sound perhaps is refreshing along with any splash.
Men may profess to like jacked up trucks with large lift packages because I suppose it makes us feel manly.
Why can't SUVs tow as much as trucks? Is there no SUV on a 2500 chassis?
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Humans seem to like seeing swoopy sporty cars with long hoods and a low slung chassis.
Humans also like color, seeing plant blooms, fall colors, paintings, colorful uniforms. We like waterfalls, the sound perhaps is refreshing along with any splash.
Men may profess to like jacked up trucks with large lift packages because I suppose it makes us feel manly.
Why can't SUVs tow as much as trucks? Is there no SUV on a 2500 chassis?
Yes indeed, you've answered your own question. Presumably there wasn't enough market for it, to make it worthwhile to auto manufacturers. The last 3/4 ton SUVs were around 2005-2006 or so. As I've said many times, I much prefer towing with an SUV. Better balance, better power to the wheels, more comfortable environment for passengers, more protected space for passengers and gear. But I must be in the minority.
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The market is so profitable I would GUESS there would be enough demand for a 3/4 ton SUV to warrant one particularly as it would seem much of the engineering is already done. Look at all the fancy SUVs out there not selling all that many.
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large sedans are also going away
apparently more demand in China
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The market is so profitable I would GUESS there would be enough demand for a 3/4 ton SUV to warrant one particularly as it would seem much of the engineering is already done. Look at all the fancy SUVs out there not selling all that many.
If there were enough of a market I have no doubt the big auto manufacturers would already be exploiting it. Apparently people like me are in the vast minority.
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Apparently so, it's just slightly surprising to me. Looks like a pocket of profit. It could be that folks with heavy towing needs accept that a 2500 truck with the large cab is just fine for them anyway. And you can fifth wheel it which could be a consideration as well.
Why is it called a fifth wheel?
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The name actually comes from the company that first utilized the hitch in the early 1900s. The Martin's Fifth Wheel Company named their device after the round shape of the hitch. Hence, the hitch itself is the “fifth wheel.”
The term fifth wheel comes from a similar coupling used on four-wheel horse-drawn carriages and wagons. The device allowed the front axle assembly to pivot in the horizontal plane, to facilitate turning. A wheel would be placed on the rear frame section of the truck, which at the time had only four wheels, making the additional wheel the "fifth wheel". The trailer needed to be raised so that the trailer's pin would be able to drop into the central hole of the fifth wheel.
Fifth wheels were originally not a complete circle and were hand forged. When mass production of buggy parts began in the early 19th century, fifth wheels were among the first products to be made. There were a number of patents awarded for fifth-wheel design. Edward and Charles Everett, Quincy, Illinois patented a type of fifth wheel in 1850, followed by Gutches' metallic head block and fifth wheel in 1870 and Wilcox fifth wheel in 1905
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Amazing what I learn around here, some of it plausibly useful ...
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My Father had a 5th-wheel camper that he pulled with a reg cab F-250 Ford. The fishing boat was pulled behind the camper.
I borrowed the rig many many times and eventually inherited the outfit.
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It's also an interesting comment that "sports cars look the same" because of aerodynamics. This is an over statement of course, but it has some significant truth to it. Porsches to me still look distinctive, but a 911 and a "Boxster" start to look the same. The Vette certainly could be mistaken for a Ferrari. And I'd guess any real effort to make one "distinctive" would involve tradeoffs in performance of some sort. You would never of course start with a Ford Edge kind of design for a sporty car. The square shapes are very efficient for volume and utility, but not sportiness. That new VW Van thingee looks like an interesting shape, to me.
Headlight design is probably a factor in this as well now that headlights can be sophisticated. I read rear view mirrors may disappear from cars that will have TV cameras instead, like Caddy has a rear view inside mirror now that it s TV screen.
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speaking of towing, they have rear cameras that can see around the trailer
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You Towing with an SUV is an interesting question.
So far the only thing I have needed/wanted to tow with my Dodge
Ram is my 25 ft Ranger Bay Boat.
About 6800 lbs w Trailer. My Audi SQ8 suv also tows it easily- 7700 lb. Capacity.
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Max rated towing for a truck is a good bit higher than for any SUV.
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Max rated towing for a truck is a good bit higher than for any SUV.
Yes- for sure. Thankfully for me- the one thing I tow falls well within the range for both.
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speaking of towing, they have rear cameras that can see around the trailer
If you need a rear camera for trailering, you should probably ask your husband to take over those duties.
Yes- for sure. Thankfully for me- the one thing I tow falls well within the range for both.
Yeah I was fine with my Tahoe (7500 lbs tow rating) when I had the Airstream and my old Cobalt 220 Bowrider. But when I sold the Airstream and moved up to a larger RV with a slideout, I increased my average trailer weight from about 5,500 lbs wet and loaded for the Airstream, to ~8700 - 9000 lbs for the new trailer. So that's when I needed to change vehicles. The max towing I saw for any SUV at the time was ~9,200 lbs and that's just not enough safety margin for me.
My F150 with max towing package is rated at 11,500 lbs and is more than adequate for the job. And I absolutely love the way the twin turbos handle torque throughout the entire power band. I'd never go back to a straight non-turbo gasser for towing.
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If you need a rear camera for trailering, you should probably ask your husband to take over those duties.
Yeah I was fine with my Tahoe (7500 lbs tow rating) when I had the Airstream and my old Cobalt 220 Bowrider. But when I sold the Airstream and moved up to a larger RV with a slideout, I increased my average trailer weight from about 5,500 lbs wet and loaded for the Airstream, to ~8700 - 9000 lbs for the new trailer. So that's when I needed to change vehicles. The max towing I saw for any SUV at the time was ~9,200 lbs and that's just not enough safety margin for me.
My F150 with max towing package is rated at 11,500 lbs and is more than adequate for the job. And I absolutely love the way the twin turbos handle torque throughout the entire power band. I'd never go back to a straight non-turbo gasser for towing.
Don’t blame you. That max towing package is sweet!
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The best thing about that is
A)locking rear diff
B) when you are not towing you have a wonderful daily driver that is not noticeably different than a regular F-150.
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The best thing about that is
A)locking rear diff
B) when you are not towing you have a wonderful daily driver that is not noticeably different than a regular F-150.
Yeah I test drove pretty much everything-- all of the American major 3 brands of pickup in both gas and diesel configurations.. I took each of them off the lot for a private drive without the sales guy, and I grabbed my RV trailer and towed it up and down the worst hill in Austin.
The diesels obviously handle the towing the best, but they all drove like a dump truck when not towing, and since it's my daily driver, I'm only towing maybe 10% of the time, max. I also disliked the idea of taking on all of the additional maintenance required on diesel trucks.
The standard V8 gas versions of all of the brands were rather anemic. They struggled on even some of the hills around Austin and it's not like these are the Rocky Mountains or anything.
The one that stood out was the F150 with the 3.5L ecobooost twin turbo. It drove beautifully on the highway, and was a beast in towing mode up the hills. And at the time, the F150 Supercrew had the largest cab and several more inches of space in the backseat, compared to the other two brands. Since this truck is also basically our family car (my wife has a Jeep Wrangler), we need it to be large enough and comfortable enough for our family of 4 plus a dog.
So the F150 ecoboost, was the obvious choice for us. It's been almost 5 years and I still love this truck.
HOWEVER, I'd still rather tow with an SUV if the option were available.
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A turbo also loses less power at altitude if you live out west.
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A turbo also loses less power at altitude if you live out west.
Yup. There's a Youtuber crew online that tests trucks' towing capability going up the "Ike Gauntlet" route, which is an 8-mile stretch of I70 in Colorado that traverses up to over 11,100 feet above sea level. The turbo charged vehicles do quite well along that route.
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I've mentioned before how much I like being able to accelerate in sixth gear without downshifting in the GTI (aside from being below maybe 50 mph). The wide torque band is very useful. I see Ford is going to offer a supercharged V8 in an F150.
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I've mentioned before how much I like being able to accelerate in sixth gear without downshifting in the GTI (aside from being below maybe 50 mph). The wide torque band is very useful. I see Ford is going to offer a supercharged V8 in an F150.
Hmmm that would be interesting. How does power and torque response on a supercharger compare to a turbocharger? I guess there's not really any lag? (although the lag on my twin turbo is minimal, that's precisely why they use two smaller turbos instead of one larger one, so it'll spin up faster).
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Hmmm that would be interesting. How does power and torque response on a supercharger compare to a turbocharger? I guess there's not really any lag? (although the lag on my twin turbo is minimal, that's precisely why they use two smaller turbos instead of one larger one, so it'll spin up faster).
There is still a bit of lag in most supercharged engines. Not much but some.
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I've mentioned before how much I like being able to accelerate in sixth gear without downshifting in the GTI (aside from being below maybe 50 mph). The wide torque band is very useful. I see Ford is going to offer a supercharged V8 in an F150.
It looks like an aftermarket package you purchase and have installed if you have 21-23 V8.
I can tell you now that will be a lot faster than the raptor because it will not be made with all the extra weight that goes with offloading packages.
There are supercharger packages available now for Ram and Chevy/GMC- but being offered by the maker (Ford) is a big deal. Warranties!
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44068022/ford-unleashes-700-hp-supercharger-f-150/
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Lag is undetectable in my GTI unless I'm under 1200 RPM or so.
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Lag is undetectable in my GTI unless I'm under 1200 RPM or so.
That is a great car. The engineering is exquisite.
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[th]Engine Type[/th]
[th]Power (HP @ rpm)[/th]
[th]Torque @ rpm[/th]
[th]Max Towing[/th]
[th]Max Payload[/th]
|
| 3.3L Ti-VCT V6 | 290 @ 6,500 | 265 lb.-ft. @ 4,000 | 8,200 lbs. | 1,955 lbs. |
| 2.7L EcoBoost V6 | 325 @ 5,000 | 400 lb.-ft. @ 3,000 | 10,100 lbs. | 2,465 lbs. |
| 3.5L EcoBoost V6 | 400 @ 6,000 | 500 lb.-ft. @ 3,100 | 14,000 lbs. | 3,235 lbs. |
| 3.5L PowerBoost Full Hybrid V6 | 430 @ 6,000 | 570 lb.-ft. @ 3,000 | 12,700 lbs. | 2,120 lbs. |
| 5.0L Ti-VCT V8 | 400 @ 6,000 | 410 lb.-ft. @ 4,250 | 13,000 lbs. | 3,315 lbs. |
| 3.5L EcoBoost H. O. V6 | 450 @ 5,850 | 510 lb.-ft. @ 3,000 | 8,200 lbs. | 1,445 lbs. |
| 5.2L Supercharged V8 | 700 @ 6,650 | 640 lb.-ft. @ 4,250 | 8,700 lbs. | 1,400 lbs. |
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The GTI is the best car I've ever had overall, fun to drive, good mpgs, pretty decent room inside, more comfortable than I expected for long hauls ...
I did like the CTS except for the wheels and tires. It's gas mileage wasn't great and it had a stiffer ride than one might think.
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Ohhh, max towing on the supercharged V8 is only 8,700 lbs? I'm assuming that's more a matter of which body/chassis they're putting it into, and not the engine itself?
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I'd guess it has to do with over heating as much as anything, but it could be chassis/brakes/braking/gearing ... tires? Your 3.5 L is cream of the crop here, not only for towing. Note that the 3.5 L hybrid has more power/torque and a lower rated towing capacity.
We've chatted before about how a hybrid Diesel might be a great combo.
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Engine Type
Power (HP @ rpm)
Torque @ rpm
Max Towing
Max Payload
3.3L Ti-VCT V6
290 @ 6,500
265 lb.-ft. @ 4,000
8,200 lbs.
1,955 lbs.
2.7L EcoBoost V6
325 @ 5,000
400 lb.-ft. @ 3,000
10,100 lbs.
2,465 lbs.
3.5L EcoBoost V6
400 @ 6,000
500 lb.-ft. @ 3,100
14,000 lbs.
3,235 lbs.
3.5L PowerBoost Full Hybrid V6
430 @ 6,000
570 lb.-ft. @ 3,000
12,700 lbs.
2,120 lbs.
5.0L Ti-VCT V8
400 @ 6,000
410 lb.-ft. @ 4,250
13,000 lbs.
3,315 lbs.
3.5L EcoBoost H. O. V6
450 @ 5,850
510 lb.-ft. @ 3,000
8,200 lbs.
1,445 lbs.
5.2L Supercharged V8
700 @ 6,650
640 lb.-ft. @ 4,250
8,700 lbs.
1,400 lbs.
I have the supercharged 5.2L V-8 in my Shelby GT 500. Putting out 760. Fun times!!
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The sporty cars thread is now about trucks and heavy towing ....
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TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:
Ransom E. Olds (1864)
Olds was a pioneer of the American automobile industry and the namesake of the Oldsmobile and Reo car brands. After developing an internal combustion engine and incorporating it into a car, he opened the Olds Gasoline Engine Works. In 1899, he moved to Detroit, formed the Olds Motor Works, and designed and produced the popular Oldsmobile. With its low price and stylish curved dashboard, it was the first car to be produced in quantity.
(https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/orlando/1/546/32678/1920x1440/1966-oldsmobile-toronado)
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(https://i.imgur.com/KjyuM5B.jpg)
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The sporty cars thread is now about trucks and heavy towing ....
To be fair, 9000 lbs isn't all that heavy. My BIL's 5th wheel weighs something like 13,500. His Ram 3500 can easily handle that without breaking a sweat.
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I enjoy it all.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350133035_564153542301630_1990583184185301022_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=tFvOCNTs0ygAX9TXuPf&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBZBU8yYXX9cJKq1Clr2T98SQWVcKwKBAWmtWMfnwFoXA&oe=6480BEBC)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350133035_564153542301630_1990583184185301022_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=tFvOCNTs0ygAX9TXuPf&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBZBU8yYXX9cJKq1Clr2T98SQWVcKwKBAWmtWMfnwFoXA&oe=6480BEBC)
Wow. That’s a nice….um…car.
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I was always a sucker for the "M" model
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1951 Buick XP 300 GM Le Sabre
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350969457_1406152240236130_6908051898403468854_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-YW23qd_mN4AX9ODxrT&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDuqR2mxnI3R84kUuZnNUc4-vXX89f7Ib_jEfUxwWeD3Q&oe=64811679)
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Speaking of sporty cars, I'm looking at this one for my daughter...
(https://i.imgur.com/1sCcBxK.png)
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V6?
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Speaking of sporty cars, I'm looking at this one for my daughter...
(https://i.imgur.com/1sCcBxK.png)
Looks clean.
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V6?
Yes.
Looks clean.
Seems to be, I'll know more when I test it out tomorrow.
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That's certainly something I'm not entertaining for my son when he turns 16 this year...
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That's certainly something I'm not entertaining for my son when he turns 16 this year...
Yeah girls are different. My daughter is a practical, conscientious driver.
My 13yo son, on the other hand, wants a Dodge Challenger Hellcat. Umm... yeah, that ain't happening.
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NASCAR Stock Car Looks Ridiculous, Goes Fast At Le Mans (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44086569/nascar-stock-car-looks-ridiculous-goes-fast-at-le-mans/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0OStFqEdkkEi967Mc23s9cmxGxIG2Ll-AlfG9VVsE54clUIWt1o5iFJnU)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cf1W7kW.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/OEwmVWn.png)
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NASCAR Stock Car Looks Ridiculous, Goes Fast At Le Mans (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a44086569/nascar-stock-car-looks-ridiculous-goes-fast-at-le-mans/?utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0OStFqEdkkEi967Mc23s9cmxGxIG2Ll-AlfG9VVsE54clUIWt1o5iFJnU)
NASCAR and LeMans don't go together
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Utee towing his trailer ...
(https://i.imgur.com/QJewWLu.png)
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needed some nachos w/cheese
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I guess that statue of of "Nacho nacho man...".
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That's a slick combo, if only it weren't that hideous maroon and white!
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(https://i.imgur.com/Tx1dE6o.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/Tx1dE6o.png)
The Tennessee Hillbillies?
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352228315_562212429391231_5988593611826902822_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zIhe8hTq23cAX-wEuBL&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA577L7TtrEMVaOpfZ_KvhqAXTQ-iIlcR1iwkN1zXB0Fg&oe=648281A7)
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(https://i.imgur.com/yCezV3j.png)
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looks nice, but not practical enuff for this poor dirt farmer
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(https://www.thedrive.com/content/2020/09/ferrar-badged-c8-lead-jpg.jpg?quality=85)
I could do this..........
I would never, but I could
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The most practical "sporty car" might be the Mustang. (I'm ignoring the GTI as being four door and thus not really sporty.)
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looks nice, but not practical enuff for this poor dirt farmer
Can't haul a back hoe can it?
But this Lamborghini can:
(https://i.imgur.com/5LWwgUL.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/EpvpiVL.png)
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The most practical "sporty car" might be the Mustang. (I'm ignoring the GTI as being four door and thus not really sporty.)
What do you think about the Lambo tractor, CD? It's so sporty it doesn't even have TWO doors, just the one.
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I watched Clarkson's Farm where he had one. It was pretty neat overall ($$$).
We njoyed both series.
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The most practical "sporty car" might be the Mustang. (I'm ignoring the GTI as being four door and thus not really sporty.)
This is plenty sporty enough for me. Someday I'll have it.
(https://i.imgur.com/Llh5w2B.png)
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I watched Clarkson's Farm where he had one. It was pretty neat overall ($$$).
We njoyed both series.
Yeah that show is a lot of fun. And yes, it's the only reason I know that Lamborghini manufactures tractors.
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A friend of mine restomodded a 1968 Mustang. He put in a modern 5.0 L engine, automatic, etc., and a somewhat modern suspension. It drove like a tank.
It really looked nice.
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[img width=500 height=384.978]https://i.imgur.com/EpvpiVL.png[/img]
we have this in Iowa - SE Iowa
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(https://i.imgur.com/SWAalRT.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/zE66n9D.jpg)
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After re-watching Guardians of the Galaxy 2, my 13yo son now wants a Mustang II King Cobra:
(https://i.imgur.com/pNhoQwb.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/YEJckHK.png)
It's flashy for sure. The Mustang II was such a dog that many Mustang clubs won't even admit owners of them, but maybe it's finally making a comeback?
I was always partial to the Cobra II from Charlie's Angels...
(https://i.imgur.com/SW2Kv5f.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jxENw5b.png)
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I don't like any of the pics on this page
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I don't like any of the pics on this page
Oh yeah? Well why don't YOU offer up some pics of a sporty car you like the looks of, then?
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I have and I will
just not a fan of the contributions so far
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(https://i.imgur.com/Dd530kx.png)
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as you stated, even mustang lovers don't like those mustangs
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I like the El Camino/Ranchero concept. Hyundai makes one now sorta like that.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/PkCNlZ7.jpg)
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that's much better
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I like the El Camino/Ranchero concept. Hyundai makes one now sorta like that.
me too, just not the 80's model
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OK, not an 80s model:
(https://i.imgur.com/hay6l9a.png)
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mucho better
(https://cdn.dealeraccelerate.com/smt/1/1457/23998/790x1024/1969-chevrolet-el-camino-ss)
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(https://i.imgur.com/AUPvE8T.png)
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I'd drive it.
Trunk is suitable for golf clubs
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(https://i.imgur.com/G32ImFc.png)
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Uhhhhhh
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typical better idea by Ford
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352510096_1677417349391497_4241795131348830703_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=F3WF5gRLrhoAX9zdbbN&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDwgeWdcpVIQOqejLwTDGHqbU70NON7kSJaADCKNY2bJw&oe=648C7EF6)
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Ed Cole, GM Executive that oversaw the design of the Cadillac V8 engine in 1949 was a key player in the world of Tri Five Chevrolets. Success at GM found him as Chief Engineer at Chevrolet in 1952 and the goal was to replace the Chevy Stovebolt Six with a new, lighter, more powerful V8 engine design. With Zora Arkus-Duntov they teamed up to produce the small block Chevy V8 in 1955 that set the revolution in place for Chevrolet! In 1956 he was promoted to General Manager of Chevrolet, then in 1961 he became head of the GM car and truck group. In 1967 Cole became President of General Motors. Retiring in 1974 from Chevrolet, Cole died in 1977 when he crashed his personal plane in a storm in Michigan.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353067843_833651004862222_6230558248403408920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Xj9rLkh-SUcAX8upTaz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCKUKdOTYV5N_XnUFoqB3Sy2JmSM_NXQnbJc7s1PqcFpA&oe=648D1D8A)
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an expert
https://youtu.be/3nGQLQF1b6I
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https://youtu.be/LFdpIM5k_Sk
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Grease Monkey foreplay
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(https://i.imgur.com/8JHYlYo.png)
Nice restoration, not sporty of course. Ford went away from that at the time, I guess they had the Mustang.
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It's a 2-door 2-seater, I still think it's fairly sporty.
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me too
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I agree it's sporty looking, I was obviously more thinking of performance and size, though it had a huge engine and some power. We'll go with sporty. It's nice looking, I think, with that paint job to the hilt and a nice interior, I would drive it some.
I'd guess it would get 10 or so mpg in the highway.
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1971 RANCHERO GT 429 COBRA-JET J CODE
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353671360_1349361102594474_6698877791913315947_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=f6tCI7OkwogAX8Yf-Ef&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCNJIKugZQUmi-upeFoyoBECgeOpYdHqJAZsvZz_wnUSw&oe=648EA0A2)
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What new car would you buy today for $100 K or less that meets your personal needs? (If you need to tow, have a large group to haul about, like to pay less for gas, need to haul stuff, like SUVs, whatever ...).
I'd need to mull this a bit, it would have been a Corvette Z51 a few years back. Now might be more of a snazzy SUVish thing. Or the CT4 V Blackwing?
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1983
(https://i.imgur.com/0yY8rTZ.jpg)
2023
(https://i.imgur.com/jMcCggC.png)
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What new car would you buy today for $100 K or less that meets your personal needs? (If you need to tow, have a large group to haul about, like to pay less for gas, need to haul stuff, like SUVs, whatever ...).
I'd need to mull this a bit, it would have been a Corvette Z51 a few years back. Now might be more of a snazzy SUVish thing. Or the CT4 V Blackwing?
We never buy new cars anymore, so we have more choices.
This would do it. AMG GLE 63.
(https://i.imgur.com/G0xohIV.png)
But, since my need for speed has diminished, we'll probably end up with the GLE 550 and call it good. Maybe even a hybrid.
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Well- I already have one but…
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What new car would you buy today for $100 K or less that meets your personal needs? (If you need to tow, have a large group to haul about, like to pay less for gas, need to haul stuff, like SUVs, whatever ...).
I'd need to mull this a bit, it would have been a Corvette Z51 a few years back. Now might be more of a snazzy SUVish thing. Or the CT4 V Blackwing?
I don't know that I like anything available today that meets my needs.
I need a 3-row vehicle with easy ingress/egress to the back row. I need the second row to have legroom--the oldest is 6'1" and growing. I don't want an SUV (defined as giant beast on a truck chassis), and I don't particularly like the CUVs that look like SUVs. I like something that's a little lower to the ground and doesn't handle like a turd.
Maybe a Subaru Ascent?
But in reality, the answer is "keep my 2014 Ford Flex going until my needs change."
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We never buy new cars anymore, so we have more choices.
This would do it. AMG GLE 63.
(https://i.imgur.com/G0xohIV.png)
But, since my need for speed has diminished, we'll probably end up with the GLE 550 and call it good. Maybe even a hybrid.
for $100 K or less
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today I'm a traveling salesman driving around 3,500 miles a month
need a large sedan
I just looked and Toyota is no longer offering the Avalon
I knew Chevy no longer made the Impala
maybe the 2023 Chrysler 300.
I'd need all-wheel dr, because rear wheel drive sisn't good for snow and ice
Can you get the 2023 Mercedes-Benz S-Class for under 100K?
US News didn't even list a Cadillac. Is their largest offering similar to the Malibu?
I think I'd much prefer a used 2020 Impala
-
for $100 K or less
Used.
-
That would be my choice as well, but I don't think Cincy is interested
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What new car would you buy today for $100 K or less that meets your personal needs? (If you need to tow, have a large group to haul about, like to pay less for gas, need to haul stuff, like SUVs, whatever ...).
I'd need to mull this a bit, it would have been a Corvette Z51 a few years back. Now might be more of a snazzy SUVish thing. Or the CT4 V Blackwing?
I already own the only vehicle in the world that really meets my needs. Brand new version of it comes in at around $75,000 - $80,000 so I guess it meets the criteria.
-
Well- I already have one but…
Hard to tell the model from that pic.
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US News didn't even list a Cadillac. Is their largest offering similar to the Malibu?
Aside from an SUV, they do not make a larger sedan any more, in the US. They used to make a CT6 which was close to Impala size, but on a different chassic (and RWD). Before that they made the XTS which was akin to the Impala, FWD, same chassis. The CT5 is not like a Malibu at all, RWD or AWD.
FWD offers a lot of advantages for anyone who doesn't want to drive that hard and needs room. I test drove an Impala for a day back when we bought the 2014 CTS, it was too "floaty" for us. It had a lot of room in side and trunk space though.
To spend near $100 K on any sedan today pretty much means a performance vehicle of some sort. You can hit that with an SUV fairly easily.
I would like a convertible but I fear those days are past. My wife of course wants something higher up with earsier egress. That eliminates anything "sporty" except some SUVs. I paid around $31500 for the GTI Autobahn, seems like a real bargain now. Hopefully, we'll keep it a while longer. I'd rather spend money on travel. We drive about 6,000 miles a year, so a fancier car really makes little sense to me. We'd hit 60,000 miles when it's ten years old in 2028.
(If I park on a slope, I too have difficulty on egress, so I don't usually do that.)
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I toyed with a price configurator for the CTS4-V Blackwing and came out at $65 K, with manual transmission, which isn't bad I thought, but not near $100 K of course.
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Here ya go CD.
New 2023 Mercedes-Benz AMG GLA 45 For Sale at Mercedes-Benz of Buckhead | VIN: W1N4N5DB5PJ476141 (mercedesofbuckhead.com) (https://www.mercedesofbuckhead.com/new/Mercedes-Benz/2023-Mercedes-Benz-AMG+GLA+45-Atlanta,+GA-0e6039bc0a0e0a9a474222ee408dee4a.htm)
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Well- I already have one but…
(https://i.imgur.com/zJGMibp.png)
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Here ya go CD.
New 2023 Mercedes-Benz AMG GLA 45 For Sale at Mercedes-Benz of Buckhead | VIN: W1N4N5DB5PJ476141 (mercedesofbuckhead.com) (https://www.mercedesofbuckhead.com/new/Mercedes-Benz/2023-Mercedes-Benz-AMG+GLA+45-Atlanta,+GA-0e6039bc0a0e0a9a474222ee408dee4a.htm)
No manual transmission, won't work for me.
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No manual transmission, won't work for me.
Specs say you can do the manual mode with the AMG. Unless I'm reading it wrong.
(https://i.imgur.com/cXdbOH0.png)
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but, there's no clutch
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Most cars with automatics have a "manual mode" of some sort. The Caddy had the "flappy paddles" which I used on downgrades in the mountains. And it had a setting on the gearship lever called "M" for manual. I toyed with it a bit, it was kinda silly, better to just let the tranny do its thing. It you used the flappy paddles, it shifted into manual mode for a bit.
Not nearly as much driving engagement as a manual transmission, which is close to being a thing that doesn't exist.
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like sedans
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I think sedans are further from the final end than manuals, which make little to no sense for EVs. Some EVs have fake manuals, which is bizarre.
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I used to own manual transmission cars. A Plymouth whatever, a mustang, a 944 Turbo and a 928 S.
Manuals are now a PIA for me since my left leg is half dead.
Automatic all day long.
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I'm getting there, I understand the issues, I'm sure our next vehicle will be auto. And higher off the ground.
Still, I could go for that CT4 V Blackwing with a manual. It might be a collectable.
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I don't think it would be collectable if nobody knows how to drive it.
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I don't think it would be collectable if nobody knows how to drive it.
Some of us are protecting the ancient traditions. My son will learn to drive a manual soon.
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Consider cars considered collectable now, and how many have manuals.
One fun one was the older CTS-V station wagon, with a manual.
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Some of us are protecting the ancient traditions. My son will learn to drive a manual soon.
Mine know how.
Most kids now will never be exposed to a manual, I reckon.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353005420_9757501874267362_7643798850307880276_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Cscl9K59oPsAX8VIpJ5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDqbHdQEmdob6Qc4IB8WUFSNV9h7bje09mQMovLQNSbEA&oe=6490DA85)
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I remember when my dad had one of these. The big ugly actually fit in the garage. Not these days.
(https://i.imgur.com/Hu4J31d.jpg)
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Is that an Imperial?
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but, there's no clutch
He couldn't hit in the clutch anyway. That's why he's still going to camp
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He couldn't hit in the clutch anyway. That's why he's still going to camp
Heh, I was (wrongly) named MVP for one game because of a clutch hit. (Our pitcher pitched a complete game and had two hits, he deserved it much more than I did, I just happened to have a hit late in the game with the bases loaded to put us agead. The funny thing about my hit is it was a line drive to right field and he could have thrown me out at first because I don't run very well now, but he threw home...)
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Is that an Imperial?
Deuce and a quarter.
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BMW M Cars Are Done With DCTs, and Soon, Manuals Too | The Drive (https://www.thedrive.com/news/bmw-m-cars-are-done-with-dcts-and-soon-manuals-too?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR0koB-fXAQo8q6AfoZa3XG44PKOMpW8gP8xNfbBFCStQAfK2qKPwb6AQJc)
We had a rental DCT once in France that was impossible to drive slow like when parking.
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Deuce and a quarter.
the big buick
my grandfather had them
made a crazy change to the Lincoln for his last car
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(https://i.imgur.com/HQ32YrI.png)
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One of the best episodes ever of the Munsters. Grandpa had to build Dragula  to win back the Munster’s family car that Herman lost on the bet at the dragstrip.  the bad guys took the parachute out of grandpa’s Dragula, and Herman had to run out there and grab onto the back of Dragula to bring it to a stop. His boots were smoking profusely.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354430846_561980932798748_1055175894959765188_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=2YDxfADAg00AX_RefKH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAjLpDWNQCU6oH4KJ7aobBxjmSGxFWNY9OjY46OpVtnKA&oe=6491D3DF)
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sporty
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354576527_594936112623128_8493497366215852731_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=E_1pYzbL-xkAX_pkf2q&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCkV2VrH7iro6rvhAT6FM255AZ0zraKvmuKZUpXFBvRZA&oe=6494EC44)
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Gotta love a Jeep girl. My i s c & a aggie wife is one.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354578044_567474008887587_3376495731780244824_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=RfiRQQMaAeMAX8l6IIr&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBDUbTdYAkVK506YKtHC7IRIai0p6xuCuoUJG_1-84OSA&oe=6493A30D)
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1968 Miss America Debra Barnes, posing with her 1968 Oldsmobile Toronado coupe.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354044690_696683918930028_292863557756452089_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=y9tp-sd7MdwAX_fS76k&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDKoWnJHKcQ3mT4ZhZFpOAj1d2gzYE6mMoogzGaO6AJiw&oe=649577B2)
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Is the Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Better With an Automatic? (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42256071/2023-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-automatic-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0UsjqA3GxT2E-yiIpZEpnVzoWNUUq2iH-ToF17yJsVcotmYYyJFgW8H-A)
Pretty sporty for a V6 I think ... interesting comparison.
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Is the Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Better With an Automatic? (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42256071/2023-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-automatic-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0UsjqA3GxT2E-yiIpZEpnVzoWNUUq2iH-ToF17yJsVcotmYYyJFgW8H-A)
Pretty sporty for a V6 I think ... interesting comparison.
Great car! Good read too.
Like all other car enthusiasts- I love me some manual transmission. There is nothing like it- especially if you can frequent some canyon or twisty roads- or a good road course.
But- if you are looking for performance- you simply can’t beat the automatic trannys in some of todays vehicles.
A 12.2 1/4 mile is 2 full car lengths faster than a 12.4. And that is for a professional driver who is near perfect at shifting.
If I were hell bent on getting a manual- I would get it in a lower end ( less expensive) sporty car so the enjoyment factor would be very high- and you wouldnt expect the speed/performance to be up there with today’s fast cars.
The 7 speed DCT in my Shelby GT 500 is incredible.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/2020-ford-shelby-gt500-mustang-dual-clutch-transmission-tech-explained/
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2019/08/05/stunning-performance-and-control-2020-shelby-gt500.html
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Yeah, I think driving a "slow car" with a manual can be more rewarding than a faster one with an automatic. It's not about speed but engagement. I don't think one can really drive these higher end sports cars on public roads to much of an extent, the occasional fast acceleration and taking some corners hot at times.
If I could fit in a Miata I'd have one.
Lotus Emira vs Cayman GTS and Corvette Stingray – Everyday Exotics | Everyday Driver - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiU7qgoWyLA)
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Saw this crossover today. Looks pretty sporty.
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Saw this crossover today. Looks pretty sporty.
Can’t even tell what that is?
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Genesis maybe?
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Can’t even tell what that is?
Genesis maybe?
Aston Martin.
Looks like it must be this model: https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/models/dbx
Sorry for the bad pic. I wanted to snap it at a stop but didn't get a chance, and we were coming up to a stop light where they indicated turning right.
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BTW it's just one man's opinion, but I think Aston Martin makes just about the best looking vehicles on the road.
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BTW it's just one man's opinion, but I think Aston Martin makes just about the best looking vehicles on the road.
I could agree with that. They are gorgeous.
We are starting to see more of those around here.
It's not for me. Too much $$$. I guess I'm not rich.
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I could agree with that. They are gorgeous.
We are starting to see more of those around here.
It's not for me. Too much $$$. I guess I'm not rich.
Yeah, although I like cars, I'm not the type to spend that kind of money on one. I'm slowly working on wrenching on my Jeep, and if I really decided I wanted to go down that route with a fast car, I'd build a kit Cobra. But to me, a car is a tool. It gets me from point A to B. While I'm not immune to wanting a certain level of luxury / creature comforts, I don't see a need to ever own anything beyond Lexus/Genesis level if I'm actually earning the money to pay for it. And right now I'm more than happy with a 2014 Ford Flex. It's a great tool, comfortable, and has all the features I want.
If I were fabulously wealthy, I would consider an Aston, though. LONG before I'd consider a Ferrari, or Lamborghini, etc. To an extent I think those cars demonstrate you have money, whereas an Aston demonstrates you have taste. (And money. A shitload of money.)
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Exactly.
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(https://i.imgur.com/h07T8L6.png)
My friend in France has one of these, a red covertible, a 1971 I think. Another friend in Cincy had two of these, one was the 2+2 V12 which he insisted I drive. It drove like a tank. That's a paint job above.
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(https://i.imgur.com/1mYPMqe.png)
The Packard Caribbean first appeared in 1953, built by the Mitchell-Bentley Company, which had been engaged by Packard to convert 750 standard convertibles. With a highly desirable design and luxurious appointments, the Caribbean Convertible represented the ultimate expression of Packard quality, luxury and style. This 1954 model cost $6100 when new and featured a robust 212 hp 359 ci straight-eight engine with a four-barrel carburetor, mated to a 2 speed Ultramatic transmission.
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$6100 was a bunch of cash back in 54
the 54 Vette sticker was $2774
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353832209_800058315024653_5945070801812751072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=UdqmG2hBr3oAX8oROpJ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB9ttGyetTB0CaeiFzA4fNhHidwqqHohavVut9b0Ov0-w&oe=649D7F05)
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(https://i.imgur.com/ZFHuxZx.png)
I'd feel sport driving one of these (1963) at a leisulrely pace.
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(https://i.imgur.com/UdXd4Os.png)
I looked on line for how much Novas sell for these days and was shocked at the high prices.
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me too
mine was similar to that one
Gray/silver - same hood and grill
didn't have the chrome trim up that high, was on the bottom of the body and much wider
I always preferred the 67 & 68 Camaro body styles
They are also very expensive
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Fast-Lane Foreigners: 1991 Sports Sedan Comparison (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a44211796/1991-sports-sedans-compared/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR1YwoI5sy8Q7gK8P8jEEOhfCdRjZXmNKA1S-c0urq4u4BmYGk9LZuwZZ24)
These are funny.
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Those were some ugly cars. The Benz should not have been included. Not the same class at all. And yeah, the 190 was the Cimmeron of Benz.
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I looked on line for how much Novas sell for these days and was shocked at the high prices.
That is a sharp vehicle,had a 72 Nova 250 4dr copper color
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(https://i.imgur.com/ZFHuxZx.png)
I'd feel sport driving one of these (1963) at a leisulrely pace.
That a Bentley?
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Rolls
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Paradise Road...Milner vs Falfa
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355136248_658871929613094_8124145951003583684_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=h9j31n0vCD4AX-E9JWz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB5NRAFDoX6oxSQVGM3b01ZOunWQPE1lV_Jh3DGZ9ErDw&oe=649F7084)
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(https://i.imgur.com/hGasdhd.png)
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Paradise Road...Milner vs Falfa
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355136248_658871929613094_8124145951003583684_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=h9j31n0vCD4AX-E9JWz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB5NRAFDoX6oxSQVGM3b01ZOunWQPE1lV_Jh3DGZ9ErDw&oe=649F7084)
Classic!
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(https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2022/08/b6cefb55-23bb-4a85-9236-b6a756400951-1.jpg)
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Hennessey HP1000 tunes the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing up to 1,000 hp - Autoblog (https://www.autoblog.com/2023/06/27/hennessey-hp1000-cadillac-ct5v-1000-horsepower/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016&fbclid=IwAR2AFpLaIdGJN8FswDbTD-b5APBr9VQ1iHfRtmM5WJU1BCD_oxBcscXNnvE)
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Clean Gene Sadoian re-entered his '34 at the 1953 Oakland Roadster Show, where he won first place in the new sedan class. This photo shows Gene and Chuck Pollard with the car. When Gene started showing the '34, he was a criminology student at Fresno State. Back in those days, there were very few criminology students, and only one that was driving a hot rod. Hot rodders were known as villains, like what Hells Angels are considered today. Gene was trying to get into law enforcement. He was also in the college police force, and he remembers that the chairman used to call him telling him that he couldn't park his car at the administrative parking lot. "Oh, I was the bad guy. Then what happened is that California was trying to quell the hot rod riots and the movies. Hot rodders were the bad guys. All those B-class movies. They formed California Safety Patrol and the Califonia Highway Patrol. And they named two people, Ezra Earhart, and a guy by the name of Chuck Pollard. And what happened is that when I got my 1953 from the highway patrolman in his uniform, that became my saving grace, because now I was doing everything within the limits of the California Highway Patrol who were trying to legalize drag racing." Clean Gene is our man when it comes to early Fresno hot rod history, so be sure to head on over to the Clean Gene Collection on Kustomrama for more great photos, memories, and stories. Click here to check it out: https://kustomrama.com
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356421596_657307099775007_8310631228132190088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=u-xxWCJlZiMAX8tsiDx&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCFOoTeBjDijx-RXFZo9JdgtASTndUHlVqMB2LdxDT2fg&oe=64A01B25)
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Hennessey HP1000 tunes the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing up to 1,000 hp - Autoblog (https://www.autoblog.com/2023/06/27/hennessey-hp1000-cadillac-ct5v-1000-horsepower/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016&fbclid=IwAR2AFpLaIdGJN8FswDbTD-b5APBr9VQ1iHfRtmM5WJU1BCD_oxBcscXNnvE)
Hope Hennessy is doing better these days. Their early years were less than stellar with cars/warranty.
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you want 1000+ HP AND a warranty???
hah
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you want 1000+ HP AND a warranty???
hah
Yes. If I am paying $65,000 for the upgrades- I want the car to be dependable for at least a year or 12,000 miles.
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well, they might do 12/12
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well, they might do 12/12
They had a bad reputation early on for not backing up their warranties. I don’t think it is that way any more.
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I'm not sure how much 1,000 hp "helps" much of anything... beyond acceleration after 30 mph maybe.
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I'm not sure how much 1,000 hp "helps" much of anything... beyond acceleration after 30 mph maybe.
Truly. Unless you frequent the drag strip and/or road courses. ( many people WHO attain that level of HP/TQ do). Not much good on the street.
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I'm not sure how much 1,000 hp "helps" much of anything... beyond acceleration after 30 mph maybe.
Ed Zachery
Suppose your tooling along at 82mph on I-90 headed West thru South Dakota
Some punk rolls up beside you in his new Z06 Vette........ and gives you that look
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Heh, 82 mph on that stretch will get you run over, I was doing that in a 4 cylinder minivan back when. Any faster and I could tell the motor was not happy.
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I'm old and tired of expensive tickets and insurance
I drive SD a lot.
Set the cruise 4 over at 84 and relax
unless I'm late for something
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(https://i.imgur.com/mpXV3H5.png)
How I envision Utee on vacation ...
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(https://i.imgur.com/mpXV3H5.png)
How I envision Utee on vacation ...
Where is the pool?
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(https://i.imgur.com/mpXV3H5.png)
How I envision Utee on vacation ...
Ha! I love it!
For the past week though, we went old-school and got a 3-bedroom condo on the beach in Florida, and then a 2-BR hotel suite in New Orleans. Felt weird driving 1,000 miles without the RV behind me.
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(https://i.imgur.com/AFY1ETs.png)
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2026 Chevrolet Camaro EV Future Cars: A New Pony Era (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2026-chevrolet-camaro-electric-car-future-cars/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AAMAG%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR2pyJnEbH1V43DmTaYZePm5pu7rERfDzNh1XZ-Q9pJ4oTeiJOzJHCnoNbM)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356657247_572631688371819_7409670429281352634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=J6V0mW8H5e4AX9TWbFG&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBlqBQjvxMNW3VKrcBZ_9p6EfWXjXTxbTDra_MdC8N2hw&oe=64A41D50)
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(https://i.imgur.com/jWBms5h.png)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356423299_570170571989251_2258149026507967834_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hdPBbH7UT3oAX8OIUxD&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA0B-bmgHmjAc-BqKpSEvp-DgwGxpQtuLCJk8ETtJZssg&oe=64A4EE13)
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John Wayne was gifted the first production Corvette in 1953 but it was too small for him so he gave it to Ward Bond.
The first photo shows Duke standing with his Corvette years later while on display at an automotive show. The second photo shows Duke after receiving the car on the set of The High and the Mighty (1954) with Ward Bond and director William Wellman.
The first Corvettes were produced in Flint, Michigan on June 30, 1953. Only 300 Corvettes were made for the 1953 model year - all Polo White with red interiors.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357207804_835872501230605_4047564016439891642_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=B2232dw_fvEAX8FWfzF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDSH4XRU1eBtrY9bOUag_P_qk_QEnbdrJSRYyV7ZuA3-w&oe=64A50EA3)
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357087940_835872527897269_7575954464035352026_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=CdkLMe7aPx0AX8EjnBP&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCL85cshx8B3oe16PLxpNuMYTY1LzXLtjOEJMMGdIvJfA&oe=64A5B970)
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(https://i.imgur.com/tj1SteU.png)
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This '67 Chevrolet Camaro body was photographed in December, 1966 on its transport cart in the Fisher Body plant at GM's Norwood Assembly. This Camaro body appears to be complete, including its paperwork and ready to be transferred to the Chevrolet assembly line.
Photo and caption courtesy of the General Motors Photo Store.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352539578_690023553162784_6116886753353214936_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=42EqS_Oe-hQAX9ByDzX&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAqS-8D17W6_-2g-prJuNZuW7kj-Os5gZ2-LwrJ018TlA&oe=64A6776A)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357700959_646529987518093_7568528922314591123_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6_W6sJpFcSAAX_ASxlH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCmNz8TUc9UyimagqHNlXwchylf_UbgJzLSRskRk6Uyzg&oe=64A7E15A)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357497275_572342175095957_2076563545136301667_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=4e19HoPubIEAX8XpQ_K&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBW9SnWhvkbvrmC2hZnGQiKw9qE0WO8kNVKl0E37ZD2mw&oe=64A6C99D)
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Saw one of these on the road today. Damn fine looking EV...
(https://i.imgur.com/uHAcxEY.png)
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Saw one of these on the road today. Damn fine looking EV...
(https://i.imgur.com/uHAcxEY.png)
I've never seen one of those, but I agree. THAT'S a nice looking EV. Not sure why the manufacturers have made so many ugly ones to date.
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the EV thread is over there ----------------->>>
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I've never seen one of those, but I agree. THAT'S a nice looking EV. Not sure why the manufacturers have made so many ugly ones to date.
I can think of a few reasons...
- Many of the prominent EV makers weren't automakers first. So they may not, quite simply, been that good at design. I.e. the only [current] Tesla model that doesn't look like crap is the S.
- Many of them want their EV to "stand out" relative to ICEV, so they've taken design decisions to deliberately make the EV different. Think of Rivian's headlights here. Some of those decisions... Haven't paid off.
- Some of the decisions are due to different design constraints. I.e. without needing a front grill, Tesla eschewed it completely on the 3 and Y. I personally think it looks boring and bad--at the same time, which is quite an accomplishment.
I think that Audi has mostly done great with EV design. The Jaguar EV is slick. The Taycan is a good-looking car. What I think is consistent across those cars is that you have teams that worked within the brand's existing "look" and only made minor EV-specific tweaks to design... If any at all, that is. I think the only way that you can tell that Audi is an EV is the lack of exhaust pipes and the e-Tron badge on the back.
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the EV thread is over there ----------------->>>
I don't recall posting a news item... It was a picture of a sporty car.
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it was an EV
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357198805_661338956020847_6060199471989255707_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=c0WZoq1kd5YAX8BMQqu&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBsQ7b4wIrxmXdoELH65jV4JIEeKOtgwm_uqW_IfPTlyQ&oe=64A92400)
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similar to my 70 Nova SS - had the chrome trim on the bottom
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356829090_232052512984162_4441845991623761563_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=HLoHBkby8LEAX8M_LSn&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAYAmm52wLQJnyymhNHSA9qDg1xoUWYUI_bKmyW07SpRA&oe=64AAEC51)
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similar to my 70 Nova SS - had the chrome trim on the bottom
Good for promoting rust.
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yup, unfortunately only had it until 1980 - less than 6 months
little drag racing incident after work on a Friday night
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(https://i.imgur.com/kDdQ6Xb.png)
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I'd like to have 1 of each but I'd need a bigger garage
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My pappy said, "Son, you're gonna' drive me to drinkin'
If you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Lincoln."
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/359464732_576119811384860_8143108355936670456_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=z4P7vssq0aIAX_xc42x&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAxfr81N8wN4IXb3iyPCJA6OqrjUGeyn_5eFiLPtUF10Q&oe=64B04F12)
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The C1 looks best IMHO, I'd like a restomod of one with maybe an LT1 up front.
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I heard somewhere that a 2002 chassis could be used for the 1962 body.
I'm guessing BS, but it would be cool
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My pappy said, "Son, you're gonna' drive me to drinkin'
If you don't stop drivin' that Hot Rod Lincoln
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBUfNxfc2w4
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This one says:::::::: All new powdercoated c4 Newman car creations frame and suspension, true corvette mono leaf front and rear with Bilstein shocks and no coilovers,
https://www.beckerautogroup.com/inventory-vehicles/1962-corvette-convertible-resto-mod (https://www.beckerautogroup.com/inventory-vehicles/1962-corvette-convertible-resto-mod)
my guess is that the C1 is too small for Cincy to stretch his legs
I've driven a couple.
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This C5 Corvette is a 1962 conversion done by Classic Reflection Coachworks (CRC). This beautiful 1962 Corvette started life as a 2002 Corvette convertible equipped with heads-up display, 6-speed manual transmission, a suspension system with three different settings depending on desired ride and a 5.7 Liter V8 engine. A B&B custom exhaust, 3.42 rear end gears, Baer brakes and rotors with powder coated brake calipers and a Kewl Smoothie engine treatment were added to complete the package. It was then shipped to the Northwest where it was fitted with a 1962 Chevrolet carbon fiber body, specifically designed to fit the frame, engine, wheels and convertible top.
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1962-CHEVROLET-CORVETTE-CUSTOM-CONVERTIBLE-181493 (https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1962-CHEVROLET-CORVETTE-CUSTOM-CONVERTIBLE-181493)
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I drove on of these on Saturday. Dood has a lot of money to throw around at cars.
(https://i.imgur.com/k2PexxR.png)
Then he let me drive this one, which was way more fun.
(https://i.imgur.com/90IGfXe.png)
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Yeah, those old cars look neat but drive like piss. I saw some SUV Maserati the other day and shook my head.
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The clutch was really stiff on the Corvette. It was a 1967, all original except the tires, I think.
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high performance clutches back in the day were all "stiff" or would give your left leg a work out.
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Yeah, those old cars look neat but drive like piss. I saw some SUV Maserati the other day and shook my head.
Eh, the Corvette looks way cooler than the Maserati. I'm not a racecar driver, just a Sunday afternoon tourer, so I'm fine with the beautiful car even if it's not as modern and comfortable.
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I'd still like a convertible for Sundays etc. I agree about tooling around is a something as opposed to wanting it to be really fast on a track.
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Some of you may (or may not?) remember that I have a half dead left leg due to a hack back surgery 10 years ago. He nicked my L4 nerves. That clutch was definitely a challenge.
I should have sued the MoFu.
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there was a new ZO vette parked at the golf course yesterday.
not my color and didn't get to hear it run, but it was something
got me thinking about spending $120,000 instead of $80,000
and sometime in the wee hours of the morning I remembered, ............ there's no race track around these parts
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I'd be happy with the level 3 "regular" convertible Vette. The Z06 does sound neat.
These days, any new convertible I might actually get would be a 'stang 5.0. But, that won't happen any more.
BMW doesn't make a 2 series convertible any more. That could change.
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in these parts, the convertible top is up 80 -95% of the time
doesn't do much for me
but, I get it
they look "sporty"
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Too hot down here for a convertible. Hard pass.
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If I had a convertible, it would be used in suitable weather as a "fun car" only (though I could certainly get by with it as an only car as little as we use one).
Our five year old GTI has about 31 K miles on it. I almost never open the sun roof, my wife says she does at times.
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had a sunroof on a 2007 Impala SS
wasn't used much at all
my buddy has a BMW 325 convert
don't remember the last time the top was down, been a year or two
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I love convertibles, sure it's hot here but I don't mind.
I've had some form of convertible since 1993. I had my 1983 Mustang GLX convertible from 1993 through 2005. We got my wife's 2003 Toyota Solara convertible in 2004 and had it until we traded it in for the Jeep in 2020. And the Jeep not only has the top completely off it right now, but all the doors are off, too.
I can't imagine life without a convertible.
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I've rented a convertible (Mustang) three times in life, twice in Hawaii and once out of Vegas and once out of SF. They are great for sight seeing I think. We drove through Death Valley and up US 395 (?) and across the Tioga Pass road in one. We had one in wine country too.
The last one had the turbo 4 and ten speed and I really disliked the way it drove, the others were V6s which were marginally OK.
The plan now is to rent one on occasion when it makes sense. I'm looking at another trip up into Utah from Vegas where rentals are really cheap. The Mustang has adequate trunk space for the two of us.
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Yeah, I love having the ability. The top is completely off my Jeep as well, which is easy as it's not my daily driver.
We had some perfect weather Saturday... 80 where I live and 73 by the coast, so we took the Jeep down to Laguna Beach for some tacos y Modelos at the Coyote Grill...
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Our Jeep is my wife's daily driver but she's good with the heat. The real problem is if we get some unexpected thunderstorms, but when the conditions are right for that, she can usually just take my truck, since I work from home the majority of time.
And it really only takes maybe 10 minutes or so, to get the top and doors back on, if need be.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/359737464_576675787995929_1170816260528588519_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=X-P041SxhpkAX83SnPE&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfADOMsao_gIPu3trhMrvkp16xl4jzmc4A6F-heNg9WLZg&oe=64B0CF2F)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/358549240_576625054667669_167177351392567519_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=PppPypt9XukAX9p66Zm&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBGxGOOErIdJ1FsTC9v93dkNiWkjrMLBfAMYjIjiVTP1A&oe=64B145D8)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/358404810_652080770296348_3461988002599583285_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=pMOuVPaNu1IAX8Hlztz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCFTrtRkYDYayK6sVp90ZZ1ABGWm1ysGmSOY0yvjfP7cg&oe=64B1BCE2)
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this is pretty close to my El Cam
green in color - similar topper - cragers
had some work done on the 350 - cam, highrise manifold, holley double pumper
high pressure clutch - headers with glass pack mufflers
had a great sound and did some great burnouts
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/358450071_648802673939415_4954890245491808757_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=iQpIZ0Xg1-YAX94yLJq&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBbzWfke7Yj4LfijKwJe1rC87M7ddCbNBbSSFJMp5gGYA&oe=64B1D9F8)
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Did you get a 3/4 race cam in it? How does it idle?
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the motor work was done before I bought it - not sure
I don't think it was 3/4
but, it loped a bit at idle
it appreciated high octane fuel
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A racier cam is a good performance addition coupled with headers and new manifold and carb. That probably doubled your horsepower at the rear wheels.
Or more.
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A racier cam is a good performance addition coupled with headers and new manifold and carb. That probably doubled your horsepower at the rear wheels.
Or more.
Ported and polished heads, cam, headers, tune, exhaust - added 100 WHP to my last V-8 I tuned ( 07 300CHemi). Took it from 350 to 450.
but nowhere near double.
if you want real bang for the buck-start with forced induction on your car ( either turbo or supercharger)
my Audi SQ8 went from 450 WHP ( 508 Hp at the crank) to 683 WHP ( 750 HP) with just a tune of the ECU and catless Downpipes.
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I think these additions to a 1970ish model will make a larger difference than with a 2007 model which already has fuel injection and is reasonably optimized from the factory. A 1970 engine has relatively low horsepower to start, so doubling it is easier, but that probably wouldn't double it alone.
(Horsepower ratings then were gross, not SAE net, so they listed higher numbers than were "real". A stock 1970ish 350 would have around 285-300 hp SAE net.)
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I know they tend to use bhp in Europe, do the American figures for hp typically use total hp or bhp?
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it wasn't all that fast, I'd guess about 350hp, maybe 375
it was heavy
but, it had a great sound and did some bitchin burnouts
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I know they tend to use bhp in Europe, do the American figures for hp typically use total hp or bhp?
US numbers usually are SAE NET
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My '73 Nova had a downgrade in rated HP from 285 to 185 mostly because of going to SAE Net over "gross" HP. Ten of that is due to the added AIR pump. The rest was just a change in ratings mandated by the guvmint. The old ratings were engines on a test stand with no accessories and no exhaust.
There is a new rating which is even more precise GM uses, but the difference is minimal.
I've noted before that the GTI's small 2.0 L is rated at 220 hp, but of course it's boosted.
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here's your German convertible
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357753438_806065371075762_6146045925660686268_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rXdQgHUJ_Y4AX-dLkox&_nc_oc=AQm792PTzlvciD4rMLC4kleqZ27pZJOVL36YP41ZeT5_QlGDzuZOxWntN0y5Y51ZSf8&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAeEEdf-LkZP81Tqtn4-d2oQOktB4rLzCqCqD8Yec2_1Q&oe=64B2EB1D)
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This is a nice color.
(https://i.imgur.com/i7KjfG5.png)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/361895591_114521051711550_6868517091920211089_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=v6oYSB8SYIoAX91fpzg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCNCdHEL4YnNRKHnOU7qu2Eafqqnt7AXJ8QSl4WN-ZZGg&oe=64BFBD43)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/361895591_114521051711550_6868517091920211089_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=v6oYSB8SYIoAX91fpzg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCNCdHEL4YnNRKHnOU7qu2Eafqqnt7AXJ8QSl4WN-ZZGg&oe=64BFBD43)
No attendant on duty?
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self-service
in 1980 when the price spiked to $1.17/gallon
I was an attendant.
I would unlock the pump for use and then see that they went inside to pay for the fuel
We obviously also had full-service pumps for a few pennies more per gallon
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Fill it up. Regular.
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If you check inflation adjusted prices, the midline is about $3.50 a gallon in current prices.
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yup, gas is cheap
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Welp, this is now in our garage. But my daughter doesn't turn 16 until late September so I guess I'll have to keep it warm for her...
(https://i.imgur.com/RhMju9d.png)
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It's late September and I really should be back at school
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Is that the 5.0 or 2.3? I'd guess the latter, with the ten speed.
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Is that the 5.0 or 2.3? I'd guess the latter, with the ten speed.
It's the 2.3, definitely didn't want the 5L for my teenager. :)
It's got plenty of pep to get up to speed on the freeway onramp which is pretty much my gauge for what's acceptable. My 1981 Dodge Omni, on the other hand, did not, and it could have gotten me killed any number of times. I'd never subject my kids to a deathtrap like that POS.
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OF course now that the 13yo boy has seen what his sister got, he's all-in on a Challenger Hellcat. I said, "Ummm, no freaking way."
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Build your own 2024 Corvette E-Ray
https://visualizer.chevrolet.com/ui?carline=corvette-eray&modelyear=2024&brand=chevrolet&language=en&country=US&channel=b2c&evar36=B2000004821_eml_chevy_may_owner_adhoc_performance_0723_1838136810&hid=e18d48da35cfdd42a9c50a3dafca3da30c9f511e199bd57f88c9a542f0746d86 (https://visualizer.chevrolet.com/ui?carline=corvette-eray&modelyear=2024&brand=chevrolet&language=en&country=US&channel=b2c&evar36=B2000004821_eml_chevy_may_owner_adhoc_performance_0723_1838136810&hid=e18d48da35cfdd42a9c50a3dafca3da30c9f511e199bd57f88c9a542f0746d86)
$102,900†
Starting MSRP
2.5 seconds†
0-60
655 combined HP†
Horsepower
10.5 seconds†
Quarter-Mile
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Saw this sporty thing yesterday and had to share.
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Wow, that IS something...
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That eclipses any other photo here.
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/363363354_301988229160550_7267507768540543453_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=La-lpUr5dOYAX8QpOEc&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBkfVUudldvOdC2xy6rRBC7j0Oj8GmDwcD8Y8Kbbx13eQ&oe=64CAB3FD)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/363363354_301988229160550_7267507768540543453_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=La-lpUr5dOYAX8QpOEc&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBkfVUudldvOdC2xy6rRBC7j0Oj8GmDwcD8Y8Kbbx13eQ&oe=64CAB3FD)
Short, maybe a little squat, but performs well and can get the job done...
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2023 Volkswagen GTI Road Test: Putting the 'grand tour' in GTI from Boston to Maine - Autoblog (https://www.autoblog.com/2023/08/03/2023-volkswagen-golf-gti-road-test-review/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000016&fbclid=IwAR31NcpviUZ0OUWI3YuOrUmvWRtaf7HGozpa0Fqqh7eOSgRCe-h_rY9pJEQ)
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A "Grand Tour" from Boston to Maine? That's like 90 miles or something. That's like going on a "Grand Tour" from Austin to Waco.
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Cadillac Celestiq will start with hefty price tag of $340,000 (teslarati.com) (https://www.teslarati.com/cadillac-celestiq-price/?fbclid=IwAR2CQ2izkjrTelJNLvGYLHdcNWcet0jF7dqxwKOX90Bel1teYQJpaEkFgf4)
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hefty as hell
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Newbomb Turk's Pie Wagon
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364051524_589205440076297_5145080888833181789_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MR676Lz4xQIAX97rUVm&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBwVTbZu8jB_sRsIp0bB7NXO_OXBet62jnKvYX5tCvOzQ&oe=64D3D19F)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/365458175_776079297642600_6948972843678910822_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0bb214&_nc_ohc=LCAbJh-_S3AAX-kqNGZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCtXx5oq-rKTi2VhE7j8Pt6AZ4EarwiCOES6EdvZe7VUg&oe=64D9BEA3)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/363352315_178404328579508_1612911310293419111_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=7f8c78&_nc_ohc=pwf8kkvUcvMAX-Kt3tb&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCcryJqnI-sJdmxR2IcY3LR3b-Xcva7GZmhMX45AhrN-Q&oe=64DA4A2E)
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That was my dream car.
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I thought you'd notice
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The Bond women pose with the iconic Lotus Esprit S1 at Pinewood studios ahead of the release of The Spy Who Loved Me (1977). The movie would prove to be the start of a brave era for the franchise as producer Albert Broccoli would go it alone after splitting from long term associate Harry Saltzman.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/365240173_743815304422816_5944357468121614957_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=7f8c78&_nc_ohc=Q8Ds2SHwx5wAX8k-FW9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDuRXNmaIUaTJ-CcxCwz5Clm9TdH5ejWwRFqz0ct_TgyQ&oe=64DB4EDB)
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That GNX has been worked on quite a bit.
I'm going to miss not shifting my own gears in a few years I reckon.
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you'll be fine
It's not that bad
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I was driving in the mountains and rather enjoying it, heel and toeing, etc. I had automatics from 1998 to 2018, though I had a couple second cars with manuals. I taught all my kids how to drive a manual. I'm thinking of keeping the GTI even if my wife wants a CUV.
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good idea
are you allocated 2 parking stalls or an extra cost?
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We have two spaces, side by side, and park in the middle which is nice. But we'd have two insurance etc. costs.
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I'm going to miss not shifting my own gears in a few years I reckon.
Yep. Problem is that the only cars you can still get in manual are cheap cars and sporty cars.
It's rarely even an option on anything else. It sounds weird to most people when I say I'd prefer that my Flex be a manual, but I wish it were.
The Jeep is only "sporty" in a very limited sense, but we're gonna take that to head down to a brewery and the outlets today so I'll get to shift some gears.
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the less expensive of the two vehicles on an auto insurance policy adds some, but not much to the fees
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Can we please just go back to using smaller wheels and tires? | Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/08/can-we-please-just-go-back-to-using-smaller-wheels-and-tires/?utm_medium=social&utm_brand=ars&utm_source=facebook&utm_social-type=owned&fbclid=IwAR105EIWtElrjn9FFoXKExfHFNumsgVVzwSbzutEE7mjDuDynwd23WzNSSg)
Amen, try and use the smallest wheel available...
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fine for commuters and even sporty vehicles
truly high performance cars need lots of rubber contact
Tire sizes for both the Z06 and Z07 package are increased to 275/30R20 front and 345/25R21 rear tires. (Fun fact: A stack of these tires now stands taller than the Corvette they fit.) The Z06 tire is a Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, with the Z07 package getting Pilot Sport Cup 2R tires that represent a huge step forward in technology. After a development program that is believed to have set a Michelin record for the greatest number of design iterations, the team is finding that at many tracks, the last lap of a 12-lap session is the fastest.
Even the tire pressure strategy changes, with the main Z06 adhering to the long-held Corvette tradition of 30 psi front and rear, to 35 psi front and rear with the Z07 package for street use. This changes the contact patch from rectangular to slightly ovoid, which reportedly improves wet traction. The track recommendation is for a cold setting of 24 psi front and rear. A third recommendation is coming for sustained autobahn or long-track (Nürburgring) usage.
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(https://i.imgur.com/WCmnUrr.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/bFKDRr3.png)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366325238_809158507876912_745179729321089255_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=mqhT2vH7xcAAX8OQw2r&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDAm0zN4amKcHQ6_V3I0R2CL8MgE56EaIp6KuAc4Csn5Q&oe=64E3FBDF)
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Got a golf lesson today. As I was leaving the facility my pro was leaving too. In his black C8 Vette.
Guess my $125 for a 30 minute lesson has to get spent somewhere lol.
(Dude's a straight up guru though--he's worth that.)
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Can we please just go back to using smaller wheels and tires? | Ars Technica (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/08/can-we-please-just-go-back-to-using-smaller-wheels-and-tires/?utm_medium=social&utm_brand=ars&utm_source=facebook&utm_social-type=owned&fbclid=IwAR105EIWtElrjn9FFoXKExfHFNumsgVVzwSbzutEE7mjDuDynwd23WzNSSg)
Amen, try and use the smallest wheel available...
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366978351_596728639323977_3318746690163989144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1-h-ifhofbwAX9QAGOi&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDS42Fej2NcgxXUpc1Gowem_ADVQVjaGpUqwEWbyyhn9Q&oe=64E4BC29)
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When I get new rims for the Jeep, I may drop from 17" to 15" or 16" (whatever I need to clear the brakes).
Granted, that'll still be a net efficiency loss bc I'll go from 32" tires to 35"...
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Starting to get the itch again.
SUV or Sedan?
(https://i.imgur.com/QhHSomO.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/iAXivaM.png)
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I'd go SUV but would prefer the sedan.
We saw some low slung thing the other day I couldn't recognize and chuckled about egress.
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All those Euro SUVs look hideous to me. So do most of the American ones, except for maybe the full-size GM lineup.
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Best Looking SUVs of Recent Times (carhp.com) (https://www.carhp.com/news/here-are-the-10-best-looking-suvs-of-2023)
Ha. Could be on the other thread.
(https://i.imgur.com/qOnIiTJ.png)
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Best Looking SUVs of Recent Times (carhp.com) (https://www.carhp.com/news/here-are-the-10-best-looking-suvs-of-2023)
Ha. Could be on the other thread.
(https://i.imgur.com/qOnIiTJ.png)
Yes on the GMs, eh on the FoMoCo, and blech on all the Euros except the Landrover.
I'm surprised none of the Toyotas made it, they're pretty sporty looking.
(https://i.imgur.com/2PDjMor.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hsVLnal.png)
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sedan
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For looks alone, I'd give Porsche high marks, and Jag, and RR. My wife likes this one, somebody parks it near us in the garage. She ain't gonna get one.
(https://i.imgur.com/jh8p7iJ.jpg)
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green and yeller???
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2024 Acura ZDX First Look: Electrified With a Little Help From GM (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-acura-zdx-first-look-review/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR01FPSTpwFu7tf5KToI1JkoCvXfFHj6Lr1wgz1eGjyLPcy-sE-CuRP_Ps8)
(https://i.imgur.com/5XfLwSP.png)
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All those Euro SUVs look hideous to me. So do most of the American ones, except for maybe the full-size GM lineup.
I feel the same about the American full-size ones. Just look like big boxes.
(https://i.imgur.com/W8IdEMn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dlQ81TY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oY7BmP7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/KV3RI39.jpg)
I haven't even left Germany yet.
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I haven't even left Germany yet.
No need to, they're all hideous little bubble-squirts.
That sedan posted up-thread, though-- that was nice-looking.
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THIS... THIS would get my blood pumping:
(https://i.imgur.com/fjPKCyI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/T9jLFdL.png)
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I think I could get into that.
Not sure about getting out.
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No need to, they're all hideous little bubble-squirts.
That sedan posted up-thread, though-- that was nice-looking.
AMG S63. Gorgeous car.
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I also wouldn't mind driving this:
(https://i.imgur.com/aEVsERw.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/OWRFRYc.png)
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I want one of these...
(https://i.imgur.com/Nw4bJjG.jpg)
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I feel the same about the American full-size ones. Just look like big boxes.
(https://i.imgur.com/W8IdEMn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dlQ81TY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oY7BmP7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/KV3RI39.jpg)
I haven't even left Germany yet.
And yet the vehicles pictured are faster, and handle substantially better than 98% of cars on the road today.
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And yet the vehicles pictured are faster, and handle substantially better than 98% of cars on the road today.
And they're also ugly.
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And they're also ugly.
Tesla level ugly? Accura level ugly? Corvette ugly? Well….like that’s just your opinion man. 😂
I can’t think of many cars that aren’t ugly- and perform well.
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Teslas are definitely ugly. Except that roadster thing, it was okay.
The only Acura I ever thought was NOT ugly, was the original NSX.
Corvette ugly? I mean, it's no Ferrari of course, not sure I'd call it ugly.
But all of those mini-SUV bubble-squirts? Yeah. Fugly.
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And as for "performance" I suppose I don't really care, or at least I don't care about the metric the way you're likely defining it.
My F150 performs better than any other car I've ever owned. It's faster, smoother, more reliable, more utilitarian, and more comfortable.
Only way I'd like it better, is if it had all that, in the package of a full-sized American SUV. :)
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THIS... THIS would get my blood pumping:
(https://i.imgur.com/fjPKCyI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/T9jLFdL.png)
just remove the grill
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And as for "performance" I suppose I don't really care, or at least I don't care about the metric the way you're likely defining it.
My F150 performs better than any other car I've ever owned. It's faster, smoother, more reliable, more utilitarian, and more comfortable.
Only way I'd like it better, is if it had all that, in the package of a full-sized American SUV. :)
I feel the same about my Ram1500. Bullet proof.
But- this was ( supposedly) a thread about sporty cars.
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Car mag "performance" is either time on a track or some combination of measurements of acceleration, braking, skid pad, figure 8 ...
They do add commentary of course, and can note that a car while not excellent in metrics may still be quite fun to drive.
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I feel the same about my Ram1500. Bullet proof.
But- this was ( supposedly) a thread about sporty cars.
Well, sure, but then the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile appeared on it... :)
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Well, sure, but then the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile appeared on it... :)
😂😂
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that's one sporty Wiener
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I'm sure they have several of those for promotional events around the country. I saw one live up close in Fredericksburg, Texas a few years ago. The kids wanted to go for a ride but it was parked and we couldn't find the drivers.
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(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/368234602_696440162524251_3029491954827031832_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=sIoHzj9hVbkAX9PW45O&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfCaeF1qUfdQQpi3vBjGe_haNeTj1KHYv6DWcnX-5IZqgA&oe=64F352D3)
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WTF is that?
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It's an old Chevy van model on top of some 4x4 truck frame. i don't know why.
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because rednecks
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because rednecks
I can't make out the license plate.
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I'm guessing Florida
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Not very aptly named ...
(https://i.imgur.com/L04dFMJ.png)
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I'm guessing Florida
Bad guess. The sign on the wall next to the truck has an Alabama address on it. Focus!!
(https://i.imgur.com/EwXC1mh.png)
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close
Bammer and Florida do share a boundary on the Redneck Riviera
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(https://i.imgur.com/NaRgAVb.jpg)
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(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/371355421_697174939112455_4305471702934048169_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ZOe6ifvH3KMAX9GTag8&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfAep61P_afvh7enQkWMqGyRQj_P-DYVia5Kunz9sX3fBg&oe=64F29839)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/372681583_845347110288726_418671018626284357_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=W1VBVwOQd9QAX8YaztS&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAHwldt9_6jxSTfXyTbdDKnD6JhN6Tiyd94270hocT7rw&oe=64F8FB2B)
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Cool plate!
Sporty car:
(https://i.imgur.com/kcl2k5W.png)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/374657036_853080336180309_5184813335897371600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=BAIbdxt8IbIAX9GBE7l&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCci_fCMeHaQSVnVFrPunL-2_9VkpRn5ChYNO9u5Bp1nQ&oe=65030824)
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Looks like a picture of one of your hotweels
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Mustang Station Wagon... uhhhh, no.
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Mustang Station Wagon... uhhhh, no.
Is it as bad as some EV called a Mustang that looks like some weirdness?
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Is it as bad as some EV called a Mustang that looks like some weirdness?
No, I think the EV thing is actually worse.
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well, this old one has only 2 doors
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(https://i.imgur.com/9TEUVDY.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/Q2Z8lFp.png)
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That's almost as ugly as my 1981 Dodge Omni
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Almost as ugly as a Mustang EV?
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Almost as ugly as a Mustang EV?
Not sure anything's as ugly as that thing. My daughter who is now the proud new officially licensed driver of a "real" Mustang, won't even acknowledge that those things exist.
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(https://i.imgur.com/7mNNj6h.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/yStztlV.png)
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Finally found one that was close to the color combo I had. Mine was a Dodge Omni and this is a Plymouth Horizon, but they were the same car. Really pretty, isn't it?
(https://i.imgur.com/4eHZ6YI.png)
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Finally found one that was close to the color combo I had. Mine was a Dodge Omni and this is a Plymouth Horizon, but they were the same car. Really pretty, isn't it?
(https://i.imgur.com/4eHZ6YI.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/6gfiWu3.png)
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Almost as ugly as a Mustang EV?
I don't think the Mustang EV is hideous enough to be in an all-time bad category. Not going to win any beauty pageants, of course, but it's just kinda mediocre.
For me, the hate comes from the fact that Ford slapped the name Mustang on a 4-door crossover.
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For me it's both. It's terrible that they badged that thing as a Mustang, but even without that label, I find pretty much all of the 4-door crossover/small SUV looking things, to be quite hideous looking as well.
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Some folks may dislike that they get called "SUVs" and this don't like anything about them. Styling is not something of importance to me, at least, it's way down the list.
Those 1970s "boxes" at least were space efficient.
I read a few more reviews about the BMW X1 and as things stand now, I'm pretty sure two features make it a no go for me, the poor start stop and that DCT at low speeds.
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For me it's both. It's terrible that they badged that thing as a Mustang, but even without that label, I find pretty much all of the 4-door crossover/small SUV looking things, to be quite hideous looking as well.
Hey, I hear you on that.
But c'mon... It's not like the Mustang EV is one of these...
(https://i.imgur.com/mj2WtbC.png)
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Now, the Aztek was so ugly I wouldn't buy it, even though it had some features of note.
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Aztek definitely one of the most awful car designs, ever.
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I recall really hating this one at the time, but compared to modern small SUVs, I'm not sure it's so bad anymore.
(https://i.imgur.com/47Zl1ZR.png)
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I'm still sure
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I'm still sure
Eh. Tossup for me.
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Blech...I have to go buy a car
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Blech...I have to go buy a car
You should get one of these:
(https://i.imgur.com/AHt8jRc.png)
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Eh. Tossup for me.
well, I'm lucky enough to have never driven anything that ugly
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well, I'm lucky enough to have never driven anything that ugly
I can't say the same, but as ugly as my Omni was, I appreciated the hell out of it because I was just lucky to have a car. A car that operated correctly at least 82% of the time!
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Blech...I have to go buy a car
I tell ya... The Ford Flex is where it's at. I know you're a dad of several, so the room really helps. Especially if you've got giant mutant kids like mine--the second row seat is comfortable even for giants like me.
It'll go great with your cargo shorts and New Balance...
I mean... It's not "sporty", but then... Are you???
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(https://i.imgur.com/g2q7KjY.png)
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I tell ya... The Ford Flex is where it's at. I know you're a dad of several, so the room really helps. Especially if you've got giant mutant kids like mine--the second row seat is comfortable even for giants like me.
It'll go great with your cargo shorts and New Balance...
I mean... It's not "sporty", but then... Are you???
Hey I wore Kirkland shoes for a while.
I looked up the Ford Flex and would definitely consider it. Though we already have a minivan so my car is mostly used for me and getting a bigger car just means more excuses for me to take the kids everywhere. My Kia Optima got t-boned on Monday and is totaled, so I have to find something else. The new version of the Optima is the K5, and is supposedly a very nice car. The only problem is teenagers figured out old Kias could be stolen with nothing but a phone charger and some ingenuity, so I'm skittish on buying another one. The new ones aren't as easy to steal, but someone might still bust out the window and give it an old fashioned try.
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Aztek definitely one of the most awful car designs, ever.
My brother had one, but he's a little weird.
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Hey I wore Kirkland shoes for a while.
I looked up the Ford Flex and would definitely consider it. Though we already have a minivan so my car is mostly used for me and getting a bigger car just means more excuses for me to take the kids everywhere. My Kia Optima got t-boned on Monday and is totaled, so I have to find something else. The new version of the Optima is the K5, and is supposedly a very nice car. The only problem is teenagers figured out old Kias could be stolen with nothing but a phone charger and some ingenuity, so I'm skittish on buying another one. The new ones aren't as easy to steal, but someone might still bust out the window and give it an old fashioned try.
Here ya go.
(https://i.imgur.com/fO5mUbe.jpg)
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I had two minivans for many years.The sliding doors were a real advantage as of course I had three kids to tot hither and yon. The first was a Dodge Caravan with a 4 cylinder engine and 5 speed transmission. I had to plan ahead, as they say, when merging. I recall driving across South Dakota with the kids one day at 82 mph, at 83 the engine seemed unhappy. I put 155,000 miles on it, donated it to a food pantry outfit, who later told me they traded it to some church for a bus. It had over 180K on it by then. At least I could do maintenance on it, and changed the oil, and used synthetic.
I had put a 'car payment' into a mutual fund, $100 a month, to help paying for a new car some day. It was a tech mutual fund and did well in the 90s so I had enough to buy a new minivan and got an Oldsmobile Silhouette with that 3800 V6 in it, man was it FAST!!!!
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I had the 3800 V6 in a 98 Lumina
it was sporty
I think 200hp
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1965
(https://i.imgur.com/5uQ62Wz.png)
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I had a 1981 Buick Regal with the 231 (3.8) V6. What a dog that was.
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damn near all 1981 cars were dogs
that year the corvette with 350 cubes had 190 hp
so 6 cylinders were going to be much less
I was driving Caprice Classics in the mid 80s after college
They all had 350s
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One of those years the fastest production vehicle was a Chevy Suburban, because the emissions controls were lighter.
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and it had the 454 big block
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I had the 4.3L V6 in my 1995 Chevy Blazer, that was a quick little engine as well. It handled all the towing I needed at the time, which was taking my 19' runabout to and from the local area lakes. That boat had the exact same Vortec V6 and it was VERY fast because at 19' it was also very light.
Current boat is 25' and probably weighs twice as much. Of course it also has an 8.1L V8 engine that generates 450 hp.
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(https://i.imgur.com/yNPvR5c.jpg)
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Thinking about one of these. Maybe.
(https://i.imgur.com/cpL2P2T.png)
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1955
(https://i.imgur.com/lSxCxOb.jpg)
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My coach has an MB midsized SUV, I think it's the 350, he likes it a lot. It's nice inside. It's a size too big for us I think.
Had a session today and I'm whupped. Had lunch after at a place called "Marie's" which is solid Italian sandwich/pizza kind of low key fun and crowded place, dined outside.
Food taste better outside.
(https://i.imgur.com/FDOaBR8.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/jjnaTP8.png)
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That's the GLE. Available (now) as the GLE 350, 450, 550 and 580.
Also available with AMG, at two very different price levels.
The Mid-Size AMG GLE SUV | Mercedes-Benz USA (mbusa.com) (https://www.mbusa.com/en/vehicles/class/gle/suv/type-amg#models)
(https://i.imgur.com/plRcHSV.png)
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I cliecked on their ad. All the car maker's ads have the things I'm interested in in fine print buried. I'm not a typical shopper.
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Hey car people. I've never leased a car. However, with car prices being abnormally high, does it make sense to lease for a couple years? They are giving me like 5 grand more for my car than what I paid for it 3 years ago, which is cool, but I feel like a dummy just dumping it into another car.
Of course, I felt this way buying a house 5 years ago, and now my house is worth double what we paid for it, so joke's on me.
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How many miles per year do you put on your car?
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Here is how a lease works.
New Car - Now worth $X.
Three year old car above - Projected to be worth $X - 30% or so, pick a number, say $20,000.
Take $20,000 and charge for a loan on that amount, X%.
Divide by 36 months - lease price. You pay for projected depreciation over 3 years. Beware the fine print, "normal wear and tear".
There are times they find some small paint chip and say "more than NW&T, you owe us another $500". Not everyone does this. They also use leasing to get you into a nicer car.
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How many miles per year do you put on your car?
Hard to say. Covid changed that quite a bit, but moving towards normal again. I always chafed against the mileage restrictions, though this would probably be like a two year deal
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I'd go used.
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I'd go used.
Me too. Leasing can make sense, but as I said in another thread, too many people use leasing to get a car nicer than they can afford for a lower payment than they want to spend to buy a car.
If I was stuck in a position where I needed I car, I might lease, because my oldest is a sophomore in HS and three years from now he'll be in college, so my car needs will change at that point. And I don't drive a ton of miles. But absent "I know this is only a three year car due to changing life circumstances", I wouldn't lease.
But used has a major advantage... And that is that right now I own three cars free & clear with no car payment, one of which is a "toy"--which i couldn't justify owning if I had a monthly payment on it--and probably can go w/o car payment or buying another car in cash if I can afford it, for at least 4-5 more years.
A lease puts you on the treadmill, and if you get used to the habit of something brand new every 3 years, you'll never get off. I'm off the treadmill, at least for a while.
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My last two cars I owned for 12 and 11 years. Paid them both off in 3. My i s c & a aggie wife had her prior car for 16 years and we also paid that one off in 3 years.
We buy nice cars, take excellent care of them, and then keep them for a long time. So TCO turns out to be lower for us, than if we leased the same category of car every 3 years.
If you have different maintenance habits, then it might not work out for you.
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Me too. Leasing can make sense, but as I said in another thread, too many people use leasing to get a car nicer than they can afford for a lower payment than they want to spend to buy a car.
If I was stuck in a position where I needed I car, I might lease, because my oldest is a sophomore in HS and three years from now he'll be in college, so my car needs will change at that point. And I don't drive a ton of miles. But absent "I know this is only a three year car due to changing life circumstances", I wouldn't lease.
But used has a major advantage... And that is that right now I own three cars free & clear with no car payment, one of which is a "toy"--which i couldn't justify owning if I had a monthly payment on it--and probably can go w/o car payment or buying another car in cash if I can afford it, for at least 4-5 more years.
A lease puts you on the treadmill, and if you get used to the habit of something brand new every 3 years, you'll never get off. I'm off the treadmill, at least for a while.
I get that - the question is more about used car prices, which are supposedly at an all time high. Buying used only makes sense if you are getting a good deal, but I see conflicting things things about where people think car prices will go. The lease would be more about punting for a couple years and seeing what the market is then.
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I get that - the question is more about used car prices, which are supposedly at an all time high. Buying used only makes sense if you are getting a good deal, but I see conflicting things things about where people think car prices will go. The lease would be more about punting for a couple years and seeing what the market is then.
So is everything else. Just have to deal with it.
I agree with B.R.A.D. Example:
My car was 2+ years old when I bought it in January 2016.
The sticker was in the glove box.
Someone paid $74K for it. I got it for $41K out the door. 23K miles. Like new.
85K miles now. Like new.
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I get that - the question is more about used car prices, which are supposedly at an all time high. Buying used only makes sense if you are getting a good deal, but I see conflicting things things about where people think car prices will go. The lease would be more about punting for a couple years and seeing what the market is then.
Ok, that's much more useful context. The portion of the car market I'll deal with soon will be the "cheap beater for a teenager", so probably not the same class of used vehicle you're talking about.
What I'd suggest is that you look at the used car market and look at the financial impact of leasing for a few years. I.e. let's say your lease up-front fees mostly uses up the $5K they want in trade-in... Not sure what you're looking at but I often see the ads talking about $4K due at signing, so we're in the ballpark. Let's say your lease is $350/month, for 36 months.
That would work out to $17K over that time.
Or, if you sell your used car on the (inflated as you point out) private market, do you think you could get $6K or $7K for it instead of the $5K you're being offered in trade? (Note: selling used/private market may be its own good decision even if you choose to lease--you usually get more than what's offered in trade.) What kind of car would you be looking at, at what price range, if you bought used? How "all time high" is it really and how much do you think it'll come down in three years?
That's how I approach the question. If spending $17K (or whatever your number) for 3 years saves me $10K when I buy in three years? Probably worth it b/c that means I'm actually only spending $7K over those three years to lease the car. But if it means it only saves me $3K when I buy in three years? Probably not worth it because I'm spending $14K on a dead asset rather than simply eating the $3K to purchase an asset that will have value down the road. Especially if the idea that used car prices will come down three years from now is effectively just a bet and not guaranteed.
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Ok, that's much more useful context. The portion of the car market I'll deal with soon will be the "cheap beater for a teenager", so probably not the same class of used vehicle you're talking about.
What I'd suggest is that you look at the used car market and look at the financial impact of leasing for a few years. I.e. let's say your lease up-front fees mostly uses up the $5K they want in trade-in... Not sure what you're looking at but I often see the ads talking about $4K due at signing, so we're in the ballpark. Let's say your lease is $350/month, for 36 months.
That would work out to $17K over that time.
Or, if you sell your used car on the (inflated as you point out) private market, do you think you could get $6K or $7K for it instead of the $5K you're being offered in trade? (Note: selling used/private market may be its own good decision even if you choose to lease--you usually get more than what's offered in trade.) What kind of car would you be looking at, at what price range, if you bought used? How "all time high" is it really and how much do you think it'll come down in three years?
That's how I approach the question. If spending $17K (or whatever your number) for 3 years saves me $10K when I buy in three years? Probably worth it b/c that means I'm actually only spending $7K over those three years to lease the car. But if it means it only saves me $3K when I buy in three years? Probably not worth it because I'm spending $14K on a dead asset rather than simply eating the $3K to purchase an asset that will have value down the road. Especially if the idea that used car prices will come down three years from now is effectively just a bet and not guaranteed.
Trading versus selling depends on how taxes are computed. I have not bought a car here so I don't know. Back in IL, you paid tax on the difference - new car minus trade value. That could be a big number.
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So is everything else. Just have to deal with it.
I agree with B.R.A.D. Example:
My car was 2+ years old when I bought it in January 2016.
The sticker was in the glove box.
Someone paid $74K for it. I got it for $41K out the door. 23K miles. Like new.
85K miles now. Like new.
Yeah same here. Sticker for my F150 was $65K, I paid $38K, with 36,000 miles on it. It was like new, perfect condition. Five years later I have 76,000 miles on it and it's still like new.
But of course this was the BeforeTimes, in the Long Long Ago.
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Trading versus selling depends on how taxes are computed. I have not bought a car here so I don't know. Back in IL, you paid tax on the difference - new car minus trade value. That could be a big number.
Good point. Here in CA you do pay sales taxes on new cars, and sales taxes are high here (~8%). I would think ours is similar where a trade-in means the sale price is lower by that amount, so the taxes are lower. So you need to get at least that much more (>8%) in private sale than trade-in to make it worth it.
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Good point. Here in CA you do pay sales taxes on new cars, and sales taxes are high here (~8%). I would think ours is similar where a trade-in means the sale price is lower by that amount, so the taxes are lower. So you need to get at least that much more (>8%) in private sale than trade-in to make it worth it.
Same in Texas. So that's the exact calculation you have to make, +8% here as well on the private sale, to break even.
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Ok, that's much more useful context. The portion of the car market I'll deal with soon will be the "cheap beater for a teenager", so probably not the same class of used vehicle you're talking about.
What I'd suggest is that you look at the used car market and look at the financial impact of leasing for a few years. I.e. let's say your lease up-front fees mostly uses up the $5K they want in trade-in... Not sure what you're looking at but I often see the ads talking about $4K due at signing, so we're in the ballpark. Let's say your lease is $350/month, for 36 months.
That would work out to $17K over that time.
Or, if you sell your used car on the (inflated as you point out) private market, do you think you could get $6K or $7K for it instead of the $5K you're being offered in trade? (Note: selling used/private market may be its own good decision even if you choose to lease--you usually get more than what's offered in trade.) What kind of car would you be looking at, at what price range, if you bought used? How "all time high" is it really and how much do you think it'll come down in three years?
That's how I approach the question. If spending $17K (or whatever your number) for 3 years saves me $10K when I buy in three years? Probably worth it b/c that means I'm actually only spending $7K over those three years to lease the car. But if it means it only saves me $3K when I buy in three years? Probably not worth it because I'm spending $14K on a dead asset rather than simply eating the $3K to purchase an asset that will have value down the road. Especially if the idea that used car prices will come down three years from now is effectively just a bet and not guaranteed.
More context, I got t-boned on Monday and my car is totaled and I have to get a new one within the week
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More context, I got t-boned on Monday and my car is totaled and I have to get a new one within the week
Does your insurance company provide for rental car reimbursement?
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Does your insurance company provide for rental car reimbursement?
Yes, though it ends next Thursday. I could probably beg for a few more days but that's why I can't just wait out the market
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Yes, though it ends next Thursday. I could probably beg for a few more days but that's why I can't just wait out the market
You should probably lease then, if there is nothing used to buy.
Check Ohio tax rules.
In Illinois, I did lease a car once (LONG time ago) and then I wanted to buy it.
When you lease a car there, YOU pay all of the sales tax as part of your lease, even though you do not own the car.
I wanted to buy that car when I was done with it. I did not because I would have had to pay sales tax on it AGAIN as the "new" owner.
That's a crock of shit.
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Wow. I've never leased, my wife has, and I think she prefers it.
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More context, I got t-boned on Monday and my car is totaled and I have to get a new one within the week
Ouch. Glad you're ok.
A coworker in CO just sent me dash cam video of him hitting an elk late at night... Managed to swerve and hit the hind end which is the only reason anyone in his car is alive. Had he hit it square it probably would have come through the windshield.
I'd definitely recommend looking at what's available used though, so at least you have a good comparison. But yeah, it sucks if you're stuck buying on short notice. When I got the Flex I had a very specific list of options/etc that I wanted in either a Flex or a Durango, and I had the luxury of sitting and waiting for one that met what I wanted to come available. If I was buying on very short notice it would DEFINITELY have forced compromises that would make me less happy about a car I planned to keep for 10+ years...
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I mentioned before the best rental car I recall having was a very basic Honda Civic. It drove decently and even had a sun roof.
I just priced a Hyundai Tucsun hybrid, might be "OK" for us, some day, maybe, perhaps.
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You should probably lease then, if there is nothing used to buy.
Check Ohio tax rules.
In Illinois, I did lease a car once (LONG time ago) and then I wanted to buy it.
When you lease a car there, YOU pay all of the sales tax as part of your lease, even though you do not own the car.
I wanted to buy that car when I was done with it. I did not because I would have had to pay sales tax on it AGAIN as the "new" owner.
That's a crock of shit.
Sales tax on used items has always bothered me. Of course, taxes in general bother me, so there you have it.
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It's not just used cars that are expensive of course...
https://jalopnik.com/more-than-80-percent-of-americans-can-t-afford-new-cars-1850906956
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yup, I'd guess used cars, new cars and new leases are all expensive
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I get some photos of ar travel "back in the day" at times on FB. It looks luxurious of course, and folks pine for it, even in Coach it looks great. They never talk about ticket prices back then.
So, cars today are expensive IN PART because "we" want what they offer. The most basic car sold today new is pretty fancy, I think it's a Nissan Versa. Imiagine a very vasic "People's Car" someone builds with very spare equipment, just the basics, I doubt anyone would buy it.
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Found one for you @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) ...
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Found one for you @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) ...
I think I saw that one on the lot for 18 grand
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(https://i.imgur.com/0FMNXg2.png)
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Man I love those old Camaros. Almost as much as Mustangs!
(https://i.imgur.com/CXXr0Wv.png)
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Christine (1983)
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/385048537_651398330509860_5813881635745716279_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=JfZSl8l11V8AX9GsdZA&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBEHgJX3YLzLsG-te1sYoRe2ZyCipbKCZvJbTmtuCxTzw&oe=652D8461)
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She's so pretty!
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/387195427_18389264173006523_7111426528298451076_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=e-Pq_41KfwoAX_je3UD&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAISIqibgyfCzb_q97HeUl28dNMP6S4BxNA-zEhOmN1eQ&oe=652E351F)
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The 1959 Chevrolet El Camino was a unique and iconic vehicle that blended the practicality of a pickup truck with the styling of a classic American car. It was part of the first-generation El Camino series produced by Chevrolet, which ran from 1959 to 1960. The 1959 El Camino featured the same styling cues as the contemporary Chevrolet passenger cars of the late 1950s. It had a sleek and distinctive design characterized by prominent chrome accents, a bold front grille, and quad headlamps. The car's overall appearance was reminiscent of the Bel Air and Impala models of that era. The El Camino's body was a combination of a car's front end and a truck's rear bed. It had a stylish, elongated hood and a passenger cabin similar to a sedan, followed by an open cargo bed at the rear. The cargo bed could carry a moderate payload, making it a versatile vehicle for both work and leisure. The 1959 El Camino came with a range of engine options, including inline-six and V8 engines. These engines provided various power levels to suit different driving needs and preferences. The most powerful engine option was a 348 cubic inch V8. Inside, the El Camino offered a comfortable and stylish interior. It had a well-appointed dashboard, comfortable seating, and options for various upholstery materials and colors, allowing buyers to customize their vehicle to their liking. With the available V8 engines, the 1959 El Camino provided good performance and ample power for its time. It offered a smooth and comfortable ride, making it suitable for both daily driving and longer trips. The 1959 El Camino, like its successors, became a symbol of American automotive culture. It found favor among individuals who appreciated the combination of style, practicality, and versatility. It has also become a sought-after classic car, highly regarded by collectors and enthusiasts for its unique design.
The 1959 Chevrolet El Camino was a distinctive and groundbreaking vehicle that left a lasting legacy in the world of automotive design. It successfully blurred the lines between a car and a truck, catering to a wide range of consumers who desired a vehicle that could handle both everyday transportation and light-duty hauling, all while doing so with a touch of classic 1950s American style.
https://youtu.be/dqlkoLIjBZA
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June 25, 1957, the last Nash and Hudson’s are assembled in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/382602877_231689016555645_5108663603794001080_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=PQEcoSj_gvwAX9aeRwf&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA5DDiUga7X7ygCx-OgTy5d9b3l_FQPIT3pRW7Gfg7Cyg&oe=652F7E6C)
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MODESTO, Calif. (KMAX/KOVR) - A meticulously restored 1940 Ford has been named the most beautiful truck in the world, much to the owner’s shock and delight.
Greg Tidwell is the owner of the 1940 Ford that just won the title of the world’s most beautiful truck at the Grand National Truck Show.
“It was... I don’t even know how to say it,” Tidwell said. “It was awe-inspiring, breathtaking. I was totally shocked I won.”
Tidwell’s adventure began when he took his project vehicle to South City Rod and Custom in Hayward, California. The shop’s owner, Bill Ganahl, says it took two to three years to make all the modifications.
(https://i.imgur.com/Dok47bH.png)
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395769757_1809667842785795_2146966429021078085_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=ZSB9X6T-_0oAX99RmNQ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC3y8DYHRNq7m0xYYx26eyyslDCIkGLy94uk1318WAx2A&oe=65414E29)
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Ford Super Duty Now Has 500 HP and 1200 Lb-Ft of Torque (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a41781482/2023-ford-super-duty-hp-torque/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3pRkIbzmuDqJq4x2SCNNI9k-MJS7991WYbX5Eb6mYs57jh7OkGpyDoTN4)
As such, Ford introduced a new "high-output" version of its 6.7-liter turbodiesel V-8 for the 2023 Super Duty, which thanks in part to a larger turbocharger, generates 500 horsepower and 1200 lb-ft of torque. Seems like a lot.
Base price for the 2023 Super Duty is $45,765, a fairly large jump over the 2022's $42,240 MSRP. Order books are open today,
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should jam that beast into the new mustang
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2024 Corvette E-Ray Does Something No Other Hybrid Sports Car Offers (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45512189/2024-corvette-e-ray-review/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR2Rh61oYpcxjyn8JRF90zNu6Y4F_1isTSZNibSnDJ3Cdj1wr8fd4YOecTc)
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Toyota’s $10,000 Future Pickup Truck Is Basic Transportation Perfection (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR3mxyimJBHHySZBcp3mEm7qRgTrz6OycARp3BVLLXqCgwaWAkx7dqcSA8w)
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(https://i.imgur.com/5E96fqa.png)
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Toyota’s $10,000 Future Pickup Truck Is Basic Transportation Perfection (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000-future-pickup-truck-is-basic-transportation-perfection/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&fbclid=IwAR3mxyimJBHHySZBcp3mEm7qRgTrz6OycARp3BVLLXqCgwaWAkx7dqcSA8w)
Just seein that,i'd snap one up but I'd have to get one from Mexico as they will not be sold in the US based on the article.No bells and whistles
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I doubt you could license it in the US. A LOT of new car costs come from B&W, and safety stuff. One could build a basic basic car for $10 K I suspect, basic engine and suspension, no air bags, no radio, basic bumpers, basic emissions or maybe no emissions, just add heated and cooled seats.
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I doubt you could license it in the US. A LOT of new car costs come from B&W, and safety stuff. One could build a basic basic car for $10 K I suspect, basic engine and suspension, no air bags, no radio, basic bumpers, basic emissions or maybe no emissions, just add heated and cooled seats.
I'm gonna smuggle
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The new Ford Flex... from Hyundai.
(https://i.imgur.com/yCfXB6j.jpg)
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not sporty
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The new Ford Flex... from Hyundai.
(https://i.imgur.com/yCfXB6j.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JOSJQuL.png)
Seriously, though, that looks like a fine car, and if I were in the market right now with my current needs, would likely fit them perfectly. Looks like the 2nd row legroom is ample, the car is stylish "enough" despite not being dad-cool like a Flex, and I'm sure nearly everything about it is an upgrade from a 10-year-old vehicle.
But by the time the Flex is ready for replacement, my needs won't require a Ford Flex replacement. I'll be looking for something smaller.
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Yeah, I thought it looked decent, I don't think it drives particularly well, but the drivers won't notice.
By smaller, do you mean "CUV" ish, or maybe an EV at that time, or plugin hybrid? I think the PHEV offerings now are pretty decent, though pricey. I think you get some tax credit on the RAV4.
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2025 Chevy Tahoe, Suburban Add Snazzier Cabins, Stronger Diesels (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45972391/2025-chevy-tahoe-suburban-revealed/?utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2LSGpEoqOkNJDMtgYffpCj8L43W9H1J4tQGMxh7YH_gMnCc5nCzkCVSpA)
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Snazzy!
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Yeah, I thought it looked decent, I don't think it drives particularly well, but the drivers won't notice.
Yeah, you don't buy a car like that because it drives well. You buy it because it fits your needs and hope that it merely drives "well enough".
The Flex seems to have a lower COG, and the wide/long wheelbase actually leads to it handling better than you'd expect. Surprisingly little body roll compared to what you'd get with other taller CUVs. I took it up to Big Bear shortly after getting it, and it was surprisingly competent on twisty mountain roads. By no means is it "sporty", but it was good enough that it didn't feel like crap. The biggest issue with the Flex is that it's a pig off the line. It falls victim to horsepower that looks good on a spec sheet (287) but relies on variable valve timing to get there so the only time you access that horsepower is at rev ranges that you rarely touch. Peak torque is only 254 ft-lb.
This Santa Fe may fix that second problem. HP out of the turbo I4 engine is similar to a Flex (277), but at 311 ft-lb of torque, should have more of that low-end grunt that you actually want in a vehicle of this class. Horsepower is mostly useless in this kind of vehicle if you need to be >5000 RPM to access it; low-end torque is what you really want. And forced induction really helps with low-end torque. However just based on pictures I can't really sense how tall of a vehicle this is and how the COG vs the wheelbase, nor its suspension characteristics. This, I can't tell whether the handling will be surprisingly competent, or whether it's going to just suck.
By smaller, do you mean "CUV" ish, or maybe an EV at that time, or plugin hybrid? I think the PHEV offerings now are pretty decent, though pricey. I think you get some tax credit on the RAV4.
It's kinda all on the table at that point.
Right now I've got a wife, 3 kids (the oldest being 6'1"), and a 98 lb dog. I need a big vehicle. The Flex is perfect because as a 7-passenger vehicle that's actually comfortable in the 2nd row for a 6'1" kid, it fits my needs. And with 3-row seating, I don't have to sit 3 kids across the back seat--one can go into the third row when we're all traveling together. It's comfortable to drive, and as mentioned above it handles better than most comparable taller CUV vehicles due to COG, so even when it's just me in the car, it works.
By "smaller" I basically mean that in 2 1/2 years, the oldest will graduate HS and be off to college. His brother is only 1 year behind him. So I'll rapidly go from needing 3-row seating and a 7 passenger vehicle to being able to get by with nearly anything.
But honestly, it'll depend on a lot. I bought the Flex in early 2017 with ~21K miles on it, and I think it's ~80K now. But a lot of that comes from running kids to/from school, and that we use the Flex for most of the longer road trip duty, especially since the pandemic. Since 2020 I've basically been WFH most days, so if my driving habits stay the same--minus hauling kids around so much--it might not necessarily make the math work out for an EV. Who knows? And I still have the Jeep for my "toy" vehicle. Heck, I might just keep the Flex for a couple years because there's little point to changing it if I'm not putting a lot of miles in.
I'm fairly boring when it comes to cars. I like sporty cars, but usually not enough to pay for them, and I'm large enough that sometimes it's not fun to try to fit in them. So the next vehicle will likely be based on whether something really catches my eye and makes it worth moving on from the Flex, or becomes a necessity purchase when the Flex gets old enough that it starts to become a headache to maintain.
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2024 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing: Car and Driver 10Best (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a45976298/10best-2024-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing/?utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&fbclid=IwAR2C6L-_h8YvJ8v16Ex86IqIqBpVwO1syVRr33iIxSd0rRge8LjQl5ARcN8)
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Ya gotta show the picture:
(https://i.imgur.com/KwJOj1y.png)
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wish it was larger
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I'd go used.
I think best case is higher end used car with low miles. If you spend enough time shopping it and you're willing to buy and have it shipped from across the country, it can be a huge win. I grew up leasing cars because back in the day, my first honda civic was $150 per month and it was a no brainer. Leasing got expensive.
Back in 2017, a good buddy of mine who is a car junkie encouraged me to buy a higher end car, where they updated the model type. I bought the car that was 3 years old, only had 4,800 miles on it and was only at 56% of it's original MSRP. Still driving it today and haven't had a car payment in over 4 years. New brakes cost me $2100 last year and new tires $1600, but it will get me another 2-3 years out of it. Looks like a wealthy man's car, which I could care less about appearance, but it meets the family needs, drives incredibly well and it's a 10 year old car.
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Brakes cost $2100?!?
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brakes and rotors
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Brakes cost $2100?!?
That was the favor price because I know the owner of the shop through a very good friend. They aren't just basic brakes. That the replacement tire cost and the oil change price are the only downsides of the car.
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It's pretty common these days for a brake job to run $2K. One good thing about EVs and most hybrids is they rarely use the conventional brakes.
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What vehicles require a $2K brake job?
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What vehicles require a $2K brake job?
Good lord. I had a 1982 F150 that I used to buy the pads for about $35 and get the rotors turned every other time for another $50 or so.
Then I had a 1998 Cavalier that I used to change my front brakes on every 30k. I bought the lifetime pads the first time and got free pads from then on.
I think I've done literally dozens of brake changes for <$2k.
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I imagine they're talking about having a shop do your brakes for you, right? Not just the cost of parts or turning the rotors?
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Beware: it cost $20,000 to replace the Carbon ceramic brakes! - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c8-eray-hybrid-ev-discussion/4707849-beware-it-cost-20-000-to-replace-the-carbon-ceramic-brakes.html)
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Centric Premium OE Style Drilled Brake Rotor 128.37073 | 128.37073 (vividracing.com) (https://www.vividracing.com/-p-153963421.html?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA98WrBhAYEiwA2WvhOqHXb886oKeBhPS9XOPKCG3G3wCPpbcFw7SSQDXi94Q0QgBKcaO7-BoCXOwQAvD_BwE)
$1,704.06
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My local dealer is quoting $2200 for parts and labor to replace the front pads and rotors on my 2019 Grand Sport. Does anyone have a sense of a fair price to have the pads and rotors replaced by a dealer? Replaced at an independent shop?
If we're talking higher end sports cars, this is the price you pay, at a dealer, for a full brake job including rotors. Heaven forbid you have ceramics.
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I imagine they're talking about having a shop do your brakes for you, right? Not just the cost of parts or turning the rotors?
I can only imagine they're talking about dealer prices.
The Lexus dealer wanted $600 to do the rear brakes on my wife's RX. I bought Akebono (OEM suppler to Lexus, same p/n) pads from Amazon for $63 and got them installed by a local shop for another $100 or so.
Edit: I believe the dealer quote was JUST pads, not rotors. Not sure why anyone replaces rotors if they're in good shape.
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My local dealer is quoting $2200 for parts and labor to replace the front pads and rotors on my 2019 Grand Sport. Does anyone have a sense of a fair price to have the pads and rotors replaced by a dealer? Replaced at an independent shop?
If we're talking higher end sports cars, this is the price you pay, at a dealer, for a full brake job including rotors. Heaven forbid you have ceramics.
Personally, i would stay away from the dealers. They're a ripoff. Truly. I'll give an example. Mine is a 2014 Porsche Panamera. When I first went to the dealer, they wanted $600 per oil change. As you can imagine, i almost fell over as I thought they were joking and they weren't. My buddies shop does it for $130. It's expensive because it takes 9 quarts synthetic, so roughly $70 oil cost and then the filter is $14 if I bought it myself. I'm sure they get the oil cheaper because of quantity so they have to make their money for the time. It's a fair number. $600 is absurd.
When I called the dealer to look at replacement tires, they were marked up $250 a tire, versus me ordering the tires and having them shipped right to my buddies shop and they only charged me $150 to put the new tires on.
There's still good honest car people out there, you just have to ask around and rarely are that at a dealership. At least not in the Cleveland area.
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I'm thinking a sports car might be run pretty hard, maybe tracked, and the rotors would wear out at some point, or warp, or get scored.
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The VW dealer here had been pretty up front with me. All I've needed is oil changes at $100 per, synthetic, 6 qts, once a year. They check everything and send me a short video, rotate tires if I ask.
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Beware: it cost $20,000 to replace the Carbon ceramic brakes! - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c8-eray-hybrid-ev-discussion/4707849-beware-it-cost-20-000-to-replace-the-carbon-ceramic-brakes.html)
trade that sucker
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I think were I young and sexy and well to do I might buy that CT4 V BW with a 6 speed.
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1939 Duesenberg Coupé
(https://i.imgur.com/c0t87IX.jpg)
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Yuck.
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gotta like the moon roof
and there's ample room for a 20-cylinder 600hp engine
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(https://i.imgur.com/9deiqJU.jpg)
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Looking at this sweet thing now….
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Manual?
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Manual?
No.
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Got upgraded to a blue Mustang convertible in Diego.
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(https://i.imgur.com/tM5zU6i.png)
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https://www.northcountyford.net/new-Vista-2024-Ford-Mustang-GT+Premium-1FAGP8FF7R5103801?store=70002121&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8tzEh_GrgwMV7rdaBR2T9wv5EAQYAiABEgIPzvD_BwE
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Arnold Palmer, Augusta 1973
(https://i.imgur.com/oDAJaPS.jpg)
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Looking at this sweet thing now….
Driving dynamics are exquisite.
can see why it made car and driver 10 best list.
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My GTI is gone. The Hyundai Tucson Hybrid is here.
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That was quick
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Yeah, I had decided to keep the GTI, and then I drove the Tuscon and got into some dealing with the dealer folks, the usual merry go round. My wife liked it a lot ...
So, my initial impressions after driving it about 40 miles,
It is very quiet on the highway. The ride comfort is improved a fair bit.
Steering is predictable numb.
Acceleration is OK. Not great, but adequate, and I'm old.
The dash board looks like a spaceship. It has so many widgets I got lost with them all. It can even drive itself back out of a tight parking space without being in the car.
Handling is OK.
Visibility is much better, higher ride of course. Interior space is better of course.
It will drive a bit initially on battery alone, not far.
The rear view camera that click on the dash when you turn on a blinker on the freeway is useful.
It has memory seats, thank goodness.
My car insurance rate dropped $207 for 6 months, which surprised me.
It has a nice smell.
The start=stop function is seamless.
I'm told they are in very high demand and it's true there are only three I could find in the metro area, Limited Hybrids.
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It ended up taking over four hours to get the car, after we signed. There was a lot of "stuff". We both had to get "apps" to "manage" the car and it's goodies from our phone. The good news is they took $5 K on my Amex as down payment so I get a few miles etc. The rest I pay by check today with the title. These days it's not like when we bought a car and maybe they washed it and you drive it off the lot.
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My wife liked it a lot ...
It has memory seats, thank goodness.
It has a nice smell.
the important stuff
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No doubt. She's a very good wife indeed, for me anyway. Can be a bit prickly about some things, as can we all. She likes things very clean and organized, which everyone would but some of "us" might not expend as much effort on it.
They sent me a bunch of videos to watch about how to "control" everything, maybe I'll get to them. Someday.
Some of the doodads look potentially useful.
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What sort of advanced driver-assist features does it have? I can say that one thing I'd love to have that I don't have in the Flex (but my wife's RX has) is the adaptive cruise control. That's a REALLY convenient feature when you're out on stretches of road outside a metro area.
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Yup I like the adaptive CC in my F150.
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I'm not sure of all the features, but it has adaptive CC for sure, and something around "lane keeping", plus it can back itself out of a parking space. It also chimes when the car in front of you takes off at a light if you don't immediately. I don't yet know half of what it can do, likely much of it is irrelevant to me.
2024 Hyundai Tucson Hybrid Features & Specs | Hyundai USA (https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/tucson-hybrid/compare-specs)
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The Tucsan is not sporty.
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Neither is the Tuscon. It's, um, adequate, for old people.
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(https://i.imgur.com/sOHCLi6.png)
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Sporty.
(https://i.imgur.com/ETtNjsy.png)
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The concept of a Porsche "SUV" is an anathema to me, conceptually, same with Lambo and Ferrari and "Corvette", and I guess "Mustang".
I'm sure make terrific "SUVs".
I drove our newbie back to the dealer to pay for it and turn over the old title. So far, I can say I "like" it reasonably well, it has some nice features.
Sporty it ain't. I guess I'm past sporty.
I'll be driving it down to North Port Tuesday and Wednesday for a little beisbol.
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Sporty.
[img width=500 height=371.997]https://i.imgur.com/ETtNjsy.png[/img]
grocery getter
4 doors and a hatch ain't sporty
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My GTI had four doors and a hatch, I considered it sporty, back in the day.
I miss that car.
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Chevrolet Cheetah 1964, also known as 'Killer Cobra'
(https://i.imgur.com/RsYNFYh.png)
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^^^^
Not so sure about that thing.
But this... this, I like.
(https://i.imgur.com/2wqoHKT.png)
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never was a big fan of side pipes, but on that particular sporty car, I'll allow it.
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I finally deemed the kids old enough to watch Smokey and the Bandit so we watched it on Saturday. Now my 14yo son has shifted his desires from a brand new Dodge Challenger Hellcat, to this sexy beast:
(https://i.imgur.com/KNuRhF6.jpg)
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kid has good taste
https://youtu.be/qV2KDekhO3I
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(https://i.imgur.com/BopkGsn.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/BVJbfHo.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/dehGE1u.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/1dPQnqv.png)
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What car?
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side pipes again
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Maybe she likes side pipe.
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https://youtu.be/vZNNu1YuQ6c
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This model corners like it's on rails ...
(https://i.imgur.com/aU57TVS.png)
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My 14yo son no longer wants a late-model Dodge Challenger, now he wants a Nissan 370Z. I can only assume it's been recently featured in some ticktock, or maybe it's in a Fast and Furious movie? I wouldn't know, I've never seen any of those.
(https://i.imgur.com/nPMZxty.png)
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Mustangs have had more variations than I knew about ...
(https://i.imgur.com/spJybqM.png)
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Mustangs have had more variations than I knew about ...
(https://i.imgur.com/spJybqM.png)
Still better looking than the new "Mach-E" thing.
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yup, one of those things passed me yesterday coming into Lincoln
I actually laughed out loud
just caught me funny as hell
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The Mustang Mach-E, while I wouldn't say it's grown on me and I consider it good-looking, I can say that I've grown used to it and don't really find it so hideous any longer.
I mean, it's still not a Mustang and never should have been called such.
But while I wouldn't buy one, I hate the looks less than before.
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My 14yo son no longer wants a late-model Dodge Challenger, now he wants a Nissan 370Z. I can only assume it's been recently featured in some ticktock, or maybe it's in a Fast and Furious movie? I wouldn't know, I've never seen any of those.
(https://i.imgur.com/nPMZxty.png)
Personally, I would avoid it. I had one(350Z) in 2003. I loved it. Drove like a cheaper version of a Porsche.. until it was wet out. I had winter tires on it and it was still rough in the winter. Took them off in May. On a rainy day, first weekend without winter tires, yet new tires, I was merging on the highway, not merging like an idiot and the car spun out, off the highway and flipped multiple times. I was lucky to be alive and not injured. Car was totaled. Once I starting digging into it, the car was known to have some safety issues. Even the modern version, 370Z, still makes rankings for most unsafe vehicle.. It's an amazing inexpensive car to drive, but there's a reason it makes the unsafe lists.
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utee was gonna get his daughter a mustang convertible
also not real safe for a young inexperienced driver
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Great advice from Super.
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I received an email from Chevrolet this morning stating that my Husker Red 2024 C8 had arrived at my dealership.
I rolled up about 10:45am and found this in the shop
(https://i.imgur.com/Gd8euQw.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/F559xBf.jpeg)
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I think it looks sporty
(https://i.imgur.com/d9WvcAV.jpeg)
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utee was gonna get his daughter a mustang convertible
also not real safe for a young inexperienced driver
Not "was gonna get" but actually DID get. It's a sweet ride, wish I'd had something that cool in high school.
Great advice from Super.
I'll be honest, i don't see any way his ultra-conservative Texas A&M graduate grandfather would ever buy a foreign car for him, anyway. He'll get 'Murican or nothing at all.
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Oh and I love the parenting advice on car safety from all you jackwagons who had various versions of muscle cars in high school... :29:
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I received an email from Chevrolet this morning stating that my Husker Red 2024 C8 had arrived at my dealership.
I rolled up about 10:45am and found this in the shop
(https://i.imgur.com/Gd8euQw.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/F559xBf.jpeg)
Are you for real? You finally did it???
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I guess it's real.
Been on a waiting list for months
Placed the order late January.
I didn't post anything here until it was off the trailer and in the shop.
Wrote the check this morning
I will pick it up on Friday
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Oh and I love the parenting advice on car safety from all you jackwagons who had various versions of muscle cars in high school... :29:
my Father knew better
nearly got me killed
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my Father knew better
nearly got me killed
Congrats FF!!
You gonna be able to get a cow in that thing when you drive it down here?
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Thanks
well, it has a frunk
I'm looking forward to a road trip
First stage of break in is 500 miles, last stage is 1500 miles
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I guess it's real.
Been on a waiting list for months
Placed the order late January.
I didn't post anything here until it was off the trailer and in the shop.
Wrote the check this morning
I will pick it up on Friday
Wow! Well then, corngrats!
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my Father knew better
nearly got me killed
Yeah I think the most likely car for my son is still the Dodge Challenger, and it will NOT be the V8 kind. The other day he asked me, "Which is faster, Hellcat or Demon?" And I replied, "Neither one of us will ever know."
It'll be something like this-- looks tough, but just a 6-banger.
(https://i.imgur.com/k2vLqaa.png)
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Overweight, ancient chassis designs, poor mpg, poor hndling ...
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Overweight, ancient chassis designs, poor mpg, poor hndling ...
And WAY cooler than my first car:
(https://i.imgur.com/j4zodTp.jpeg)
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My first was a 4 door 1968 Nova with a 307 and a Powerglide tranny,
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My first was a 4 door 1968 Nova with a 307 and a Powerglide tranny,
Yup. Overweight, ancient chassis designs, poor mpg, poor handling ...
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For it's time, it was somewhere near average, I think, which was pretty bad. The 2 speed transmission was a definite negative. I upgraded to a 1973 with a 350 and a 3 speed auto in ... 1973. That car was decent for its time.
One thing that has vastly improved is chassis stiffness, something under appreciated that makes nearly everything else work better.
You son might also like a CT5-V Blackwing, if he wants better braking and handling. They are a bit pricey.
2025 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct5-v-blackwing)
Its standard transmission is a manual.
Were I in a different age group and had the funds, I'd probably be in the market for this one, they might end up being valuable down the road.
2024 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing)
The CT4-V Blackwing is an incredibly balanced machine capable of handling both realities, which helped it earn its third consecutive 10Best award for 2024 (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a45964280/10best-cars-2024/) as well as an Editors' Choice award (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a46550349/2024-editors-choice/). When asked, the twin-turbo V-6 under the hood is prompt at delivering up to 445 pound-feet of torque to the rear wheels. The gear shifting in between bouts of excitement is handled by a choice of either a 10-speed automatic or six-speed manual transmission. The Blackwing's adaptive dampers are the perfect tools for soaking up little bumps and keeping the chassis under control during normal or high-performance track driving. This best-of-both-worlds capability makes the CT4-V Blackwing one of the top two sports sedans sold today. Would you believe the other is also a Cadillac? Queue up one thunderous crackle from the 668-hp V-8-powered CT5-V Blackwing (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct5-v-blackwing). What will go down as one of the best cars we've ever driven, the CT4-V Blackwing won't be around for long, as it will eventually be replaced by a next-generation all-electric Caddy.
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For it's time, it was somewhere near average, I think, which was pretty bad. The 2 speed transmission was a definite negative. I upgraded to a 1973 with a 350 and a 3 speed auto in ... 1973. That car was decent for its time.
One thing that has vastly improved is chassis stiffness, something under appreciated that makes nearly everything else work better.
You son might also like a CT5-V Blackwing, if he wants better braking and handling. They are a bit pricey.
2025 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct5-v-blackwing)
Its standard transmission is a manual.
Were I in a different age group and had the funds, I'd probably be in the market for this one, they might end up being valuable down the road.
2024 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing)
The CT4-V Blackwing is an incredibly balanced machine capable of handling both realities, which helped it earn its third consecutive 10Best award for 2024 (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a45964280/10best-cars-2024/) as well as an Editors' Choice award (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a46550349/2024-editors-choice/). When asked, the twin-turbo V-6 under the hood is prompt at delivering up to 445 pound-feet of torque to the rear wheels. The gear shifting in between bouts of excitement is handled by a choice of either a 10-speed automatic or six-speed manual transmission. The Blackwing's adaptive dampers are the perfect tools for soaking up little bumps and keeping the chassis under control during normal or high-performance track driving. This best-of-both-worlds capability makes the CT4-V Blackwing one of the top two sports sedans sold today. Would you believe the other is also a Cadillac? Queue up one thunderous crackle from the 668-hp V-8-powered CT5-V Blackwing (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct5-v-blackwing). What will go down as one of the best cars we've ever driven, the CT4-V Blackwing won't be around for long, as it will eventually be replaced by a next-generation all-electric Caddy.
The Challenger hellcat and Demon are actually well above average for what’s out there as far as handling and Chassis. Depends what you are comparing to. And for the segment that owns them, they are perfect.
I just traded in my 21 Shelby GT 500 and replaced with the Ct4-Blackwing. I can attest - it is sublime!
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Damn. I was hoping to get a ride in that Shelby someday. We live what? 3 hours apart??
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I think this year is basically peak "muscle car" year.
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I'm already saying I don't want even the base Dodge V8 and you jackwagons are recommending a $96,000 6.2L supercharged V8 with 668 HP? For the sake of "handling?"
What the hell is wrong with you?
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Braking, too, better braking, very important for a 16 year old.
Gas mileage might be subpar.
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Braking, too, better braking, very important for a 16 year old.
Gas mileage might be subpar.
Better braking is important for a car with 668 HP? No kidding???
I found a used Caddy for only $60,000. Still more than double the expected budget, sadly.
The V6 MOPAR claims 19 in the city and 30 on the highway. I guess that's possible.
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I'm just happy I lucked into a good deal for my son's car. $2K. 20-year old Toyota Highlander w/ 130K miles. Garaged, single owner, impeccably maintained (it was his now late great-grandpa's car).
Not sporty, but that's a feature, not a bug.
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I'm just happy I lucked into a good deal for my son's car. $2K. 20-year old Toyota Highlander w/ 130K miles. Garaged, single owner, impeccably maintained (it was his now late great-grandpa's car).
Not sporty, but that's a feature, not a bug.
If I were paying the bill, this is what we'd be doing. It was my intent to have my kids save as much as they could and I'd match it.
But my inlaws killed any chance of that years ago when they promised to buy cars for my kids when they turned 16. It's part of their bribe to convince my kids to go to Texas A&M. We'll see how that works out for them when my daughter who is definitely FAR FROM being on the conservative side, figures out what kind of campus culture they have in College Station... :)
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Obviously, our new Hyundai isn't "sporty", but it drives reasonably well, and is remarkably quiet at speed. The memory seat function is much appreciated.
I took a short trip around town yesterday, maybe 8 miles, the computer said 40.1 mpg.
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This thing looks sort of sporty, in the way the German saloon cars can also look kind of sporty.
(https://i.imgur.com/qA0g7c1.png)
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The Brit word "saloon" is interesting, I think it's Brit.
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The Brit word "saloon" is interesting, I think it's Brit.
Yup, I'm sure I picked it up watching Top Gear all these years.
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Top Gear was great, for a while. The newbies aren't.
Clarkson's Farm was pretty neat, my wife liked it.
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Top Gear was great, for a while. The newbies aren't.
Clarkson's Farm was pretty neat, my wife liked it.
Yeah I couldn't watch any of the newbies on Top Gear.
I followed the old crew over to Amazon for the Grand Tour but after 20 years or so, the show is sort of petering out, anyway. They're now releasing maybe one episode per year, and it's entirely made up of their on-location "movies" rather than any studio time, which is fine with me. The movies are a lot of fun even if you know it's mostly just a gag.
I too like Clarkson's Farm, hoping there's a Season 3. Jeremy bickering with his neighbors is just classic stuff.
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I've spent some time on a farm when I was a kid. It wasn't at all like that, it seemed Jeremy had a deep check book for whatever.
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I've spent some time on a farm when I was a kid. It wasn't at all like that, it seemed Jeremy had a deep check book for whatever.
Well, yeah. He's a multi-scores-of-millionaire who bought a Lamborghini tractor just because of the name. The gags are part of the gig. It's all a put-on but it's fun to watch.
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Top Gear was great, for a while. The newbies aren't.
Clarkson's Farm was pretty neat, my wife liked it.
Yeah I couldn't watch any of the newbies on Top Gear.
I followed the old crew over to Amazon for the Grand Tour but after 20 years or so, the show is sort of petering out, anyway. They're now releasing maybe one episode per year, and it's entirely made up of their on-location "movies" rather than any studio time, which is fine with me. The movies are a lot of fun even if you know it's mostly just a gag.
I too like Clarkson's Farm, hoping there's a Season 3. Jeremy bickering with his neighbors is just classic stuff.
Yeah, Top Gear WAS Clarkson/Hammond/May. It wasn't the show format. It was them. There's no way to recreate that with the newbies.
Agreed re: The Grand Tour. Those things come out infrequently, but I always make sure to watch them. Because whatever ridiculous premise they come up with, again, it's Clarkson/Hammond/May. They're good TV.
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Yup. Overweight, ancient chassis designs, poor mpg, poor handling ...
The 68 nova did weigh much
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Damn. I was hoping to get a ride in that Shelby someday. We live what? 3 hours apart??
Oh- don’t worry. I still got you covered. 😉😎
Several choices.
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Damn. I was hoping to get a ride in that Shelby someday. We live what? 3 hours apart??
Got any twisty roads near you Badge?
I am needing to travel around the state, more on business, and occasionally make it over near you. Perhaps you’d like to sample the black wing on a twisty road or the SQ8which is well over 700 hp, but handles like a sports car, because both axles are motorized and the rear wheels also steer
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I'm already saying I don't want even the base Dodge V8 and you jackwagons are recommending a $96,000 6.2L supercharged V8 with 668 HP? For the sake of "handling?"
What the hell is wrong with you?
I have a disease. I admit it.
many men have a weakness. For some, it’s gambling. Others drinking. Perhaps women, or travel. Mine is cars.
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I'm not much for gambling, or international travel
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I have a disease. I admit it.
many men have a weakness. For some, it’s gambling. Others drinking. Perhaps women, or travel. Mine is cars.
I like cars a lot but they're definitely not my "thing." I'm just as happy driving my F150 as I ever was driving the sportier cars I had in high school/college.
But I do still have my dream of owning a '65 Mustang convertible. It doesn't have to be special, I don't need a Shelby or anything. I guess I'd prefer the 289 but honestly I won't be driving it expecting any kind of performance. I just think it's a beautiful car and I've wanted one since the first day I really understood what car ownership could mean.
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Yeah I think the most likely car for my son is still the Dodge Challenger, and it will NOT be the V8 kind. The other day he asked me, "Which is faster, Hellcat or Demon?" And I replied, "Neither one of us will ever know."
It'll be something like this-- looks tough, but just a 6-banger.
[img width=500 height=331.994]https://i.imgur.com/k2vLqaa.png[/img]
plenty tough enough
I passed a truck last week in western Nebraska with my 6-banger Impala
ran it up to about 125mph............was kinda surprised
Instead of mashing the pedal sometime in the future I decided to google the top speed of the 2017 Impala
149 mph
Geeezzz!
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Got any twisty roads near you Badge?
I am needing to travel around the state, more on business, and occasionally make it over near you. Perhaps you’d like to sample the black wing on a twisty road or the SQ8which is well over 700 hp, but handles like a sports car, because both axles are motorized and the rear wheels also steer
Pretty much all straight roads over here.
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AMG GT 63 S(https://i.imgur.com/w1aq5UI.png)
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My i s c & a aggie wife likes this one:
(https://i.imgur.com/1dIMRfi.jpeg)
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My i s c & a aggie wife likes this one:
(https://i.imgur.com/1dIMRfi.jpeg)
🥵🔥😍
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(https://i.imgur.com/IB1a72T.png)
https://www.outsider.com/news/beverly-hillbillies-where-is-the-clampetts-original-truck/
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My i s c & a aggie wife likes this one:
[img width=311.667 height=211]https://i.imgur.com/1dIMRfi.jpeg[/img]
I'd have a RED one but the nearest Mercedes shop is 90 miles away. Just inconvenient
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Under $100,000 MSRP, what's your best new sporty car available today?
"Best" is however you define it, track time, acceleration, fun to drive, nice combination of comfort and sportiness ...
(Oh, and you can't take a $30 K car and $70 K, no fair...)
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AMG GT 63 S(https://i.imgur.com/w1aq5UI.png)
My dream car.
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2024 Mercedes-AMG GT43 / GT53 / GT63 Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/gt43-gt53-gt63)
I think they bust the price limit, but still good choice.
The 630-HP 2019 Mercedes-AMG GT63 S Is Ferocious and Fine (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28789838/2019-mercedes-amg-gt63-s-by-the-numbers/)
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AMG S63. That's me, but I won't do it.
(https://i.imgur.com/pHDI79H.png)
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2024 Mercedes-AMG GT43 / GT53 / GT63 Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/gt43-gt53-gt63)
I think they bust the price limit, but still good choice.
The 630-HP 2019 Mercedes-AMG GT63 S Is Ferocious and Fine (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28789838/2019-mercedes-amg-gt63-s-by-the-numbers/)
That picture I posted yesterday of the AMG GT63 S
is actually the one I picked up yesterday.
it Wasn’t planned- but I saw a moderately used one on the Audi lot - DEEPLY DISCOUNTED, so I trade in my X3M Competition.
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These Are The Dumbest Car Myths (jalopnik.com) (https://jalopnik.com/these-are-the-dumbest-car-myths-1851291081/slides/2)
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Under $100,000 MSRP, what's your best new sporty car available today?
"Best" is however you define it, track time, acceleration, fun to drive, nice combination of comfort and sportiness ...
(Oh, and you can't take a $30 K car and $70 K, no fair...)
mine was well under $100,000
LT1, didn't need the Z51 package - I'm not taking it to the track
daily driver for $72,000
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Rich arrogant dirt farmer
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more money than brains
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2024 BMW Z4 Manual Is a Clutch Addition (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a46065165/2024-bmw-z4-manual-drive/)
I could be talked into this one for under $100 K. I like the sound of the in line 6 and I like to shift gears. This might be the most expensive sporty car with a manual out there, maybe a higher end Mustang is pricier.
(https://i.imgur.com/XBSzTvB.jpeg)
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Yeah the manual-transmission GT premium trim V8 Mustangs run around $52K new, and add another $4K-$5K for a ragtop option.
Dark Horse is currently the most expensive trim package for a Mustang and those can run from $75K-$90K, hardtop only as far as I can tell.
HB I'm sure knows a lot more about them than I do. :)
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For me, a "sporty car" would be a drop top with a manual and a nice sounding engine. I have mused about a Mustang GT convertible a bit.
My criteria REALLY limit the available options for me, the Miata is too small.
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For me, a "sporty car" would be a drop top with a manual and a nice sounding engine. I have mused about a Mustang GT convertible a bit.
My criteria REALLY limit the available options for me, the Miata is too small.
It's why I still consider my Jeep Wrangler a "sporty" car, as it has no top and a manual. No, it's not fast, and not built to handle the twisties, but it can go places those other cars can't (and wouldn't), and it's just fun.
I've read that the Miata is actually a lot more roomy than you'd think. I remembered test driving one in the late 90s. It was for a buddy, as he was "driving on a ticket" i.e. surrendered his license when he got the ticket which is or at least used to be a thing in Illinois. As the dealership couldn't hold his license as collateral to make sure he brought back the car, it fell on me to try to drive it and give feedback.
The car back then was small enough that I was forced to trap my left knee in between the steering wheel and the door except when I had to depress the clutch to shift. Clearly a non-starter for me. But I believe the later versions had a lot more room.
I'd never own a Miata as a "sporty car" for the street...
...but it'd be high on the consideration list if I ever wanted to buy a racetrack toy :72:
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Miatas are fun. But I'm a "normal-sized guy" and don't have to worry about the interior dimensions of the cabin all that much.
It's been so long since I thought about a vehicle for anything other than purely practical reasons, I really have no idea what I'd buy if I could get "anything" within financial reason of course.
My dream car of course is a '65 Mustang convertible, but that's not overly practical as a daily driver. I'd probably be tempted by a late model Mustang, especially if/when my daughter moves out in a couple of years and I no longer have access to her car.
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well, the new ride doesn't suck
biggest problem so far is getting out of it
I better get to the exercise thread and do some stretching
it's not a manual, but it sounds goooooood.
And with the removable targa top, it's fine.
been a very good day so far
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the Bose speakers sound nice too
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It's why I still consider my Jeep Wrangler a "sporty" car, as it has no top and a manual. No, it's not fast, and not built to handle the twisties, but it can go places those other cars can't (and wouldn't), and it's just fun.
I've read that the Miata is actually a lot more roomy than you'd think. I remembered test driving one in the late 90s. It was for a buddy, as he was "driving on a ticket" i.e. surrendered his license when he got the ticket which is or at least used to be a thing in Illinois. As the dealership couldn't hold his license as collateral to make sure he brought back the car, it fell on me to try to drive it and give feedback.
The car back then was small enough that I was forced to trap my left knee in between the steering wheel and the door except when I had to depress the clutch to shift. Clearly a non-starter for me. But I believe the later versions had a lot more room.
I'd never own a Miata as a "sporty car" for the street...
...but it'd be high on the consideration list if I ever wanted to buy a racetrack toy :72:
I think that’s why I have a sickness for cars. “Sporty“ means something different to everybody and a different set of characteristics for any given vehicle will make somebody feel very satisfied while driving it regardless of the reason.
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I think that’s why I have a sickness for cars. “Sporty“ means something different to everybody and a different set of characteristics for any given vehicle will make somebody feel very satisfied while driving it regardless of the reason.
Believe me, I understand and share your definition of "sporty".
I just know that having anything like that and driving it on the street is likely to subject me to legal troubles I'd prefer to avoid. Which is why if I got anything sporty, I'd prefer to have it be something track-worthy--because that's the only place I could actually drive it like it's designed to be driven.
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I think of the old Brit sports cars as sporty, even though they were quite slow.
I've tried to fit into a Miata, the salesman laughed.
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Believe me, I understand and share your definition of "sporty".
I just know that having anything like that and driving it on the street is likely to subject me to legal troubles I'd prefer to avoid. Which is why if I got anything sporty, I'd prefer to have it be something track-worthy--because that's the only place I could actually drive it like it's designed to be driven.
That is why I like to have cars that can be driven very pleasurably every day and in traffic, but can be taken right onto a road course or a dragstrip with no modifications. The Shelby GT500 ( just sold), the BMW X3M competition ( just sold), the CT4-V Blackwing( just acquired)and the AMGGT 63S ( just acquired) all fit into that category.
and they really are not many vehicles that fit into that category. There are some cars that could be taken to a track but they will quickly suffer from brake fade and cooling issues.
and I’ve never had an interest in exotics like a Lamborghini for example. Even if I could afford it it just never me it’s not my thing.
I also have a Dodge ram pick up that I find very pleasurable to drive because it has a better ride than any car I’ve ever been in plus I can tow my boat, haul the dogs, take six or seven sets of golf clubs, etc.
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I think of the old Brit sports cars as sporty, even though they were quite slow.
I've tried to fit into a Miata, the salesman laughed.
Slow yes, but super enjoyable on a road course because they handle as good as anything ever built.
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I've driven some of those old Brit sports cars, and handling was not their forte, in my view. They were fun to drive nonetheless. A Honda Accord today would out handle them handily.
And out accelerate, and of course leave them behind on any track.
Those old cars really are clunkers, 1965 Mustangs etc., clunkers. But fun.
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I also have a Dodge ram pick up that I find very pleasurable to drive because it has a better ride than any car I’ve ever been in plus I can tow my boat, haul the dogs, take six or seven sets of golf clubs, etc.
Do you launch and recover?
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Utee,
I think I remember you needing over 10K of towing. and therefore the 3/4 ton which isn't available anymore
_________________________________________ 8200???
Chevrolet’s best-selling Suburban and Tahoe lines receive an inside-out redesign for the 2025 model year, and the most noticeable is the new front fascia across all trims (LS, LT, RST, Z71, Premier, and High Country). The daytime running lights also feature a more integrated appearance for ’25, with a thinner yet more pronounced look of the top DRL “thanks to an angled prism within the lighting signature that creates bold illumination in a sleek housing.” A dual, C-shaped headlight design retains the family appearance present in other Chevrolet vehicles. Exterior color options also grow to include Cypress Gray and Lakeshore Blue Metallic.
Higher Output 3.0L Duramax
Duramax 3.0L Inline Six Diesel Engine
Following in the footsteps of the Silverado 1500, the new Suburban and Tahoe will be optionable with the latest 3.0L Duramax. The second generation inline-six diesel, RPO code LZ0, turns out 305 hp at 3,750 rpm and 495 peak lb-ft of torque at 2,750 rpm (vs. 277 hp and 460 lb-ft previously). Aside from subtle tweaks and changes to improve reliability at higher horsepower and torque, of particular note is the fact that GM added steel pistons to the LZ0 engine. Highly efficient, the high-pressure common-rail injected, aluminum block and head I-6 diesel has proven capable of achieving 30-mpg highway in ’23-newer Silverado trucks. Expect the same in Suburban or Tahoe form.
8,000+ Pounds Of Towing
As far as towing with the Duramax diesel option is concerned, a formidable 8,200 pounds of trailering capacity is available on Tahoe (rear-wheel drive models). On Suburban, 8,100 pounds of maximum towing is on the table (again, in a rear-wheel drive configuration). GM’s Max Trailering Package includes an integrated trailer brake controller as well as Hitch View, Hill Decent Control and Blind Zone Steering Assist with Trailering technologies.
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My current Benz is a 2014 AMG enhanced E Class. That's before they started putting the AMG E 43 labels on them. Makes 420HP - enough for me.
Maintenance is about $1000/year, tops. Mostly around $600.00. Cheap car payment for a great car like that. Only 90K miles - just breaking it in. Still looks new.
Next will be the AMG Enhanced GLE 43 or 53. The AMG GLE 63 is way over the top for the way I drive. Don't need 700 HP.
-
As with any such list, or ranking, well, you know ... I find it amusing two of the ten are Cadillacs. These guys lean pretty hard to performance of course.
The Car and Driver 10Best Cars of 2024: (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a45964280/10best-cars-2024/)
- Acura Integra Type S*
- Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing
- Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing
- Chevrolet Corvette Stingray and Corvette E-Ray
- Honda Accord
- Honda Civic
- Lucid Air Pure*
- Porsche 718 Boxster and Cayman
- Subaru BRZ/Toyota GR86
- Toyota Prius*
(* denotes new to the list this year.)
The Car and Driver 10Best Trucks and SUVs of 2024: (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a45964575/10best-trucks-suvs-2024/)
- Chevrolet Trax*
- Ford Maverick
- Genesis GV70
- Honda CR-V
- Hyundai Ioniq 5
- Kia EV9*
- Kia Telluride
- Porsche Macan
- Ram 1500
- Toyota Grand Highlander*
(* denotes new to the list this year.)
Want to watch a full video on the testing process? Click here! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G5jnk5Jq3E)
(https://www.wbaltv.com/article/google-maps-trick-find-parked-car/43470715)(https://kubrick.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/google-maps-thumbnail-option2-jpg-6425e42bcd9e7.jpg?crop=0.998xw:1.00xh;0.00160xw,0&resize=136:*)
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Do you launch and recover?
It’s only a 25 Ft Ranger Bay Boat/center console.
I keep it on a rack at local marina because 95% of the time we are fishing in the inter coastal or inside the inlet, or taking company out to a sandbar. But- once in a while I will put it on the trailer which is behind my house, and drive somewhere for some different fishing.
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We have in and out service. They wash it when I bring it back and they put it to bed. No trailer.
26' Cobalt SD. She'll hit 47/48 MPH. Plenty fast on the water.
Can't get a better bass boat than a Ranger. Kinda like Cobalt for a runabout.
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0-60 is sick in the AMG
https://streamable.com/dra6ph
Even faster than my modified SQ8
https://streamable.com/l3qx9h
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Acceleration numbers probably are the most often examined figure for a sporty car, but I think even a pretty slow car can be sporty. The old Brit sports cars have been mentioned. The MGBs aside from some special production items were 0-60 in the 12 second range.
MG MGB | GT | Specifications | Performance | Photos | GB Classic Cars (https://www.gbclassiccars.co.uk/mg_mgb_mgbgt.html)
I don't think any new car sold today is that slow. A Nissan Versa is under or at 10 seconds. It would not be sporty, at all. My Hyundai is listed at 7.1 seconds, it's acceptable, but not sporty. But we've discussed all this before at some length, the power of modern cars versus even 60s muscle cars.
To get 0-60 times around 3 seconds just about requires AWD or a rear/mid engine type even with sticky tires.
I was idly pondering which car type would be most fun to drive on a track, and it depends on whether the track is very tight or pretty open. I think for a while anyway, on an open track like COTA or Road Atlanta something with enormous power would be a thrill for unaccomplished drivers (like me).
Then there is the "fun to drive" aspect on some mountain twisty road. Here's where a slowish car with a manual might trump.
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the C8 seems fun to drive for an unaccomplished driver like me
sporty and fun everywhere I've driven so far.
just went to the golf course and back yesterday
(https://i.imgur.com/fnGmblw.jpeg)
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I was idly pondering which car type would be most fun to drive on a track, and it depends on whether the track is very tight or pretty open. I think for a while anyway, on an open track like COTA or Road Atlanta something with enormous power would be a thrill for unaccomplished drivers (like me).
I believe "fun" often has to do with knowing you're not just driving a vehicle fast, but that you're pushing its limits.
The problem with supercars is that their limits as vehicles >>>>>> our limits as drivers. And when you exceed their limits? Yeah, it's gonna get painful.
That's why something like a Miata makes such a great racetrack car. Something like that you can push at 10/10ths without bringing a 190mph crash into the picture. You're going to have more fun than the supercar, but with less death.
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The C8 is one of my favorites, but I agree, a Miata could be more fun. I drove a Ferrari Scuderia in Las Vegas (it was a present) and I wasn't really having much fun. The CTS-V on COTA was pretty fun, but I know I wasn't really pushing any limits.
I think a C8 convertible would be under $100 K and probably is fun at times.
-
the C8 seems fun to drive for an unaccomplished driver like me
sporty and fun everywhere I've driven so far.
just went to the golf course and back
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/chevy-corvette-c8-best-car-ever-driven/
GM hit it out of the park with their Magnetic Ride Control suspension many years back when they developed it. So much so that it is now being copied by several of the exotic brands. It the set up in my Blackwing and it is so good- it is hard to describe unless you drive it. The balance of ride smoothness and performance handling is unmatched.
I used to think- as did the car gurus and talking heads- that German cars (mostly BMW) were the masters in that attribute. Now GM is the leader.
-
Our 2016 CTS had MRC on it, and it was quite firm actually. The difference between Sport and Normal was very slight. But it cornered quite well, very flat of course, it was impressive, even though that car had a 4 cyinder engine and AWD. It was the slowest CTS of the series, but actually pretty fun on twisties.
The GTI had a softer more compliant ride on Normal.
-
Utee,
I think I remember you needing over 10K of towing. and therefore the 3/4 ton which isn't available anymore
_________________________________________ 8200???
Chevrolet’s best-selling Suburban and Tahoe lines receive an inside-out redesign for the 2025 model year, and the most noticeable is the new front fascia across all trims (LS, LT, RST, Z71, Premier, and High Country). The daytime running lights also feature a more integrated appearance for ’25, with a thinner yet more pronounced look of the top DRL “thanks to an angled prism within the lighting signature that creates bold illumination in a sleek housing.” A dual, C-shaped headlight design retains the family appearance present in other Chevrolet vehicles. Exterior color options also grow to include Cypress Gray and Lakeshore Blue Metallic.
Higher Output 3.0L Duramax
Duramax 3.0L Inline Six Diesel Engine
Following in the footsteps of the Silverado 1500, the new Suburban and Tahoe will be optionable with the latest 3.0L Duramax. The second generation inline-six diesel, RPO code LZ0, turns out 305 hp at 3,750 rpm and 495 peak lb-ft of torque at 2,750 rpm (vs. 277 hp and 460 lb-ft previously). Aside from subtle tweaks and changes to improve reliability at higher horsepower and torque, of particular note is the fact that GM added steel pistons to the LZ0 engine. Highly efficient, the high-pressure common-rail injected, aluminum block and head I-6 diesel has proven capable of achieving 30-mpg highway in ’23-newer Silverado trucks. Expect the same in Suburban or Tahoe form.
8,000+ Pounds Of Towing
As far as towing with the Duramax diesel option is concerned, a formidable 8,200 pounds of trailering capacity is available on Tahoe (rear-wheel drive models). On Suburban, 8,100 pounds of maximum towing is on the table (again, in a rear-wheel drive configuration). GM’s Max Trailering Package includes an integrated trailer brake controller as well as Hitch View, Hill Decent Control and Blind Zone Steering Assist with Trailering technologies.
Yup, 8200 won't cut it. Fully wet and loaded my trailer can get up to ~8500 lbs. Towing capacity of my current F150 is 11,200. You can get them up to 14,000 but that would be with a standard cab and without 4x4.
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What portion of towing capacity is related to brakes as opposed to torque and axle ratio etc.?
I know "they" run tests out west somewhere pulling a trailer up some mountain and back down. Are these towing weights "official" numbers or kind of made up? Are they all calculated the same way?
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Towing Capacity Guide - How is Towing Capacity Calculated? - Blue Ox (https://www.blueox.com/towing-capacity-guide-how-is-towing-capacity-calculated/#:~:text=To get the vehicle's towing,within 10% of that sum.)
1. Calculate GCVWR
To assess your vehicle’s towing capability, you’ll need to know the total GCVWR of the vehicle and trailer you’ll be towing, as well as all the cargo that both the vehicle and trailer will carry. This includes everything from the passengers in the vehicle to all of the cargo in the trailer.
2. Calculate Curb Weight
Next you’ll need to know your tow vehicle’s curb weight. As a reminder, this is the weight of the tow vehicle while it’s full of gas and all the fluids it uses while driving. This is different from the GVWR (how much the vehicle can carry).
3. Calculate Final Towing Capacity
To get the vehicle’s towing capacity, subtract the curb weight from the GCVWR. Manufacturers typically emphasize that you should never exceed your vehicle’s towing capability. It is generally a good rule of thumb to never come within 10% of that sum. This gives you a small margin for error in your calculations and ensures that you will be towing a weight that is safe.
Can Towing Capacity Be Increased?
Towing capacity may be increased by using several pieces of travel trailer towing accessories. Towing accessories that match your present tow grade are best, rather than lower-rated equipment that limits towing capacity. Just keep in mind that you should not surpass the capacity of your towing setup’s lowest-rated component.
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How Tow Rating Is Determined on the Most Popular Trucks (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a29339668/how-truck-tow-rating-is-calculated/)
The truck used in Fenske's demonstration is a new Ram Heavy Duty (https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a25881136/2019-ram-heavy-duty-pictures-specs-hp-info/), complete with a dually rear end and a 6.7-liter turbo-diesel Cummins straight-six making 1000 lb-ft of torque. For each test, the truck must be towing the maximum load recommended by the manufacturer, meaning this Ram is pulling just under 40,000 pounds.
The acceleration test requires single-wheel trucks to do 0-30 mph in 12 seconds, 0-60 mph in 30 seconds, and 40-60 mph in 18 seconds; those times increase to 14, 35, and 21 seconds, respectively, for dually models. Those times might sound like an eternity in the car world, but for a vehicle pulling the equivalent of 16 new Miatas, it's not bad. The truck must be able to brake from 20 mph to zero in 45 feet with trailer brakes, or 80 feet without.
In terms of handling, the truck needs to be able to maintain understeer as it accelerates on a circular skid pad from 0.1 g to 0.3 g of lateral acceleration. This ensures the truck won't lose control of its rear end (and therefore the trailer) during hard cornering scenarios. In a quick direction-change sway test, the trailer must remain stable and secure without excessive oscillation.
The final test is called the Highway Grade / Davis Dam test, which wasn't performed in Fenske's video. It requires that the truck be able to tow its maximum trailer weight up a specific 11.4-mile uphill stretch of road in Arizona. For this test to be run correctly, it must be at least 100 degrees Fahrenheit outside, and the air conditioning must be on its maximum setting using outside air. The truck must maintain a minimum speed of 40 mph (35 mph for a dually), and it can't throw any error codes or burn any fluids during the test.
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I like the David be Damned test
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(https://i.imgur.com/PjJEwqx.jpeg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/KKogKRJ.png)
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162 HP!!!!
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everything is relative
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I wonder what the {plus power package} comprised, maybe a 4 bbl?
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I wonder what the {plus power package} comprised, maybe a 4 bbl?
Yeah I was wondering the same thing.
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The C8 is one of my favorites, but I agree, a Miata could be more fun. I drove a Ferrari Scuderia in Las Vegas (it was a present) and I wasn't really having much fun. The CTS-V on COTA was pretty fun, but I know I wasn't really pushing any limits.
I think a C8 convertible would be under $100 K and probably is fun at times.
I got to take track laps at Mid Ohio in a Ferrari 430. I got teased about not pushing the car, but I knew it was past my limits.
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Sporty cars and sunsets.
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I love your collection!
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passed the 500 mile break in period on the C8
even more fun than the first 500 miles!
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Michigan history, 1932 : Fort Motor Company Introduces the V-8!
On March 9, 1932, Ford Motor Company introduced the production V-8 in its showrooms, and it was an instant success especially with police departments because of its price and speed.
The V-8 is considered one of Ford’s last great personal engineering triumphs: his “en block”, or one piece, V8 engine. The production was the largest commercially available V8 to the masses. Offered as an option to an improved 4-cylinder Model “B” engine in a low priced car, this compact V8 power plant, with its down draft carburettor, enabled 1932 Ford to outperform all other popular competitors and was conceived as years ahead of its time. The Ford flathead V8 is still heralded today as one of the first pioneers in ‘hot rod’ engines.
This flat head engine powered almost all larger Ford cars through the 1953 production year, and was produced until around 1970 by Ford licensees around the world, with the valve-in-block engine powering mostly commercial vehicles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_engine
(https://i.imgur.com/4d1W0EL.png)
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passed the 500 mile break in period on the C8
even more fun than the first 500 miles!
Sweet! Have you tried Launch Control yet?
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not yet
but, it's on my list of things to do
along with a smokey rubber layin burnout
I'm sure tires are cheap
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Bruce Tucker
·
Back in 1969, I couldn't afford a Cobra so I put a 327 in a 1959 Austin Healey 100-6.
(https://i.imgur.com/vEoUzvl.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/u5sKUtF.jpeg)
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Jay Leno checks out a 99-point restored 1954 Chevrolet Corvette (motorauthority.com) (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1135646_jay-leno-checks-out-a-99-point-restored-1954-chevrolet-corvette?ta=&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A Trending)
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not yet
but, it's on my list of things to do
along with a smokey rubber layin burnout
I'm sure tires are cheap
apparently smokin the rear tires isn't easy to do in the C8
not set up to power brake
best to be sliding the rear end sideways while moving
Oh well, I'll save money on tires
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A Brief History of Cadillac's Quest for High Performance
From "The Caddy That Zigs" to Caddys that actually zig, a look back at Cadillac's high-performance models.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g38506230/a-brief-history-of-cadillacs-performance/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=dda_fb_cd_d_i_g38506230&utm_id=6556176375501&utm_content=6556176375701&utm_term=6556176375301&fbclid=IwAR0cwBef3KgIM5wz-48CEv7kLTaw555Uj5YrRK8Ux_aBdhBP5sESaMF24ug_aem_AU9vDjqNsM5PgQAkpCEhJEUGNIcf1RJudrEcJnJ_fTrgwnOH1s4Fox_HYWcmWY0jw_xcgJMivcOzUrwbto-rFI3h (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g38506230/a-brief-history-of-cadillacs-performance/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpm&utm_campaign=dda_fb_cd_d_i_g38506230&utm_id=6556176375501&utm_content=6556176375701&utm_term=6556176375301&fbclid=IwAR0cwBef3KgIM5wz-48CEv7kLTaw555Uj5YrRK8Ux_aBdhBP5sESaMF24ug_aem_AU9vDjqNsM5PgQAkpCEhJEUGNIcf1RJudrEcJnJ_fTrgwnOH1s4Fox_HYWcmWY0jw_xcgJMivcOzUrwbto-rFI3h)
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It looks like the Formula1 teams have shut down Andretti's bid, alongside Cadillac, to add a new team to the series. I'm really disappointed, I'd love to see what that combo could bring to the sport.
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2024 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ux8D1lj.png)
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2024 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ux8D1lj.png)
They don’t give out many 10 out of 10s. 3years running now- and one of their 10 best cars, again
And when you drive it you understand. Silky, buttery smooth but ready to tear it up when called on.
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I think I'd want the 5. My buddy has one and it's about the same size as my car inside.
He wanted to get a CT6, but he said GM only sells those in China. WTF?
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For me, the CT5 V Blackwing is "overkill". They didn't sell many CT6 cars in the US at all. Oddly enough, that model for a time did have the "Blackwing" engine in it here.
The CT6 was not reviewed all that well by the car mags. It was closer to a "luxury" caddy.
I drove the CTS V and ATS V on COTA a while back, the ATS (which is akin to the CT4) struck me as more "manageable". The CTS V was a handful, the same engine basically as the CT5 V BW. The CT5 V BW also sucks gas hard.
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it's supposed to suck gas hard
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Probably tough to get your hands on one of these. They are sadly no longer made.
2023 Mercedes-AMG E63 S Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/e63-s-4matic)
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2024 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing)
slightly smaller than a Malibu
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(https://i.imgur.com/3tInY2T.jpeg)
Sporty? Had automatic headlights, wow.
1971.
- manufactured by Cadillac in United States
- 2-door convertible body type
- FWD (front-wheel drive), automatic 3-speed gearbox
- gasoline (petrol) engine with displacement: 8194 cm3 / 500 cui, advertised power: 175 272 kW / 235 365 hp / 238 370 PS ( SAE net SAE gross ), torque: 556 725 Nm / 410 535 lb-ft, more data: 1971 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible (aut. 3) Horsepower/Torque Curve (https://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/1971/93965/cadillac_fleetwood_eldorado_convertible.html)
- characteristic dimensions: outside length: 5629 mm / 221.6 in, width: 2027 mm / 79.8 in, wheelbase: 3208 mm / 126.3 in
- reference weights: shipping weight 2127 kg / 4690 lbs base curb weight: 2210 kg / 4872 lbs , more data: 1971 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible (aut. 3) Specifications Review (https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1971/93965/cadillac_fleetwood_eldorado_convertible.html)
- how fast is this car ? top speed: 186 km/h (116 mph) (©theoretical);
- accelerations: 0- 60 mph 9.4© s; 0- 100 km/h 9.9© s (simulation ©automobile-catalog.com); 1/4 mile drag time (402 m) 17.1© s (simulation ©automobile-catalog.com), more data: 1971 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible (aut. 3) Performance Review (https://www.automobile-catalog.com/performance/1971/93965/cadillac_fleetwood_eldorado_convertible.html)
- fuel consumption and mileage: average estimated by a-c©: 27 l/100km / 10.5 mpg (imp.) / 8.7 mpg (U.S.) / 3.7 km/l, more data: 1971 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible (aut. 3) Specifications Review (https://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1971/93965/cadillac_fleetwood_eldorado_convertible.html)
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don't know about sporty but..........
cool as hell
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Probably tough to get your hands on one of these. They are sadly no longer made.
2023 Mercedes-AMG E63 S Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/mercedes-amg/e63-s-4matic)
@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5)
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/4efc808a-5b9f-4a93-90cb-36970be6ed73/
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For me, sporty means manual transmission, something rapidly disappearing of course. I don't know of any car costing over $100 K with a manual today (maybe a loaded CT5). I'd add in two doors, a soft top, and smaller size in my own lexicon.
I also like "Q cars", cars that look pedestrian but are pretty hot, including the AMG above, and the BMW M series, the Caddy V series, and the like.
My most anti=sporty car is an older Honda Civic with an annoying exhaust set up, an automatic transmission, and really not much power.
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Q cars
we called them "sleepers" back in the day
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1985 Sports-Coupe Comparison: A Melting Pot of Performance (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43510355/1985-sports-coupes-compared/?utm_campaign=trueanthemFBCD&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2mM0sDQSgdhB_2hM70D5ICbfRv97Tnrxk74FzGnptGrEtbUG7v52RLPB8)
How far we've come!!!! The winner of the comparo ...
You wouldn't know that by checking the Coupe GT's performance stats. It's not particularly speedy (0 to 60 in nine seconds flat and a top speed of 115 mph). Nor is it great on the skidpad (0.77 g) or in the slalom (57.0 mph, strictly mid-pack).
Nope, the Coupe GT's magic lies elsewhere. When we leaf through the logbook we kept on this car, we're almost embarrassed. Supposedly hardened road testers bubble like wide-eyed kids:
"This must be the most expensive car here. It feels like money."
1985 Audi Coupe GT
110-hp inline-5, 5-speed manual, 2490 lb
Base/as-tested price: $15,250/$16,125
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 9.0 sec
1/4 mile: 16.6 sec @ 80 mph
100 mph: 34.1 sec
Braking, 70–0 mph: 209 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.77 g
C/D observed fuel economy: 24 mpg
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Supposedly hardened road testers bubble like wide-eyed kids:
"This must be the most expensive car here. It feels like money."
just sellin magazines
been bubbling since the magazine started
still bubbling on the internet
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Yeah I love that old caddy convertible, but I wouldn't call it sporty.
The sportiest cars I've ever driven are:
(https://i.imgur.com/dFUpZUG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Aq2i9mG.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/CZkNO4j.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5uo9zZ4.jpeg)
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Sportiest vehicle I've ever owned:
(https://i.imgur.com/aadArOw.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/ynuR8xh.jpeg)
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I'm not a motorcycle guy. My absolute favorite cousin was killed on one when I was about 13, and I've pretty much hated them ever since.
I'm ok with dirt bikes on private property, but I'll never be into motorcycles on public roads/highways.
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Same, minus the dead cousin. Did lose a good friend though.
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I've lost some good friends
sold that 1987 model in 1989
haven't had one since
my brother bought on a couple years ago - told him not to
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[img width=500 height=354.998]https://i.imgur.com/ynuR8xh.jpeg[/img]
This 1987 bike and the 2024 corvette have about the same times in the 0-60 and standing 1/4 mile
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I'm not a motorcycle guy. My absolute favorite cousin was killed on one when I was about 13, and I've pretty much hated them ever since.
I'm ok with dirt bikes on private property, but I'll never be into motorcycles on public roads/highways.
Been a Paul Bearer 3 times for motor cycle friends.
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Been a Paul Bearer 3 times for motor cycle friends.
Sorry to hear that.
I would never consider riding a bike down here. My friends down the street (also from the Chicago area) came down with their HD's and sold them within 6 months.
People suck at driving here.
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I'm not a motorcycle guy. My absolute favorite cousin was killed on one when I was about 13, and I've pretty much hated them ever since.
I'm ok with dirt bikes on private property, but I'll never be into motorcycles on public roads/highways.
If I bought a sportbike again, the first thing I would do is remove anything and everything that's needed to make it street legal that is unnecessary on a racetrack.
You can still hurt yourself on a racetrack--obv, I high-sided the first one at 75 mph--but it's a lot harder and definitely rare. I walked away from that fairly violent crash with a couple bumps and bruises and a slight sprain to my knee. The lack of oncoming traffic, wearing full safety gear, and having the necessary runoff areas in case of crashes makes riding at 10/10ths on the racetrack IMHO safer than riding normally on public roads.
But I miss it. There's not much in life to which I can compare the feeling of a riding the hell out of a bike on a racetrack.
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My sportiest was probably a boat.
Or one of these two, I guess?
(https://i.imgur.com/14Mhea9.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qGeYCbh.jpeg)
I regret the 928. Damn Risky Business car.
The 944 Turbo (top) was a lot of fun to drive.
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The sportiest car I ever owned was the GTI. The CTS was about as fast but of course quite a bit larger and with the automatic. The '73 Nova was a bit sporty for the time (1973), but slow by today's standards.
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I never liked the body styles of the 928/924/944 series. Maybe if they had been some other brand, but I never wanted a front engine hatchbacky Porsche.
My favorite Porsche of all time is still probably this one:
(https://i.imgur.com/LhCVlpk.png)
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I never liked the body styles of the 928/924/944 series. Maybe if they had been some other brand, but I never wanted a front engine hatchbacky Porsche.
My favorite Porsche of all time is still probably this one:
(https://i.imgur.com/LhCVlpk.png)
924 and 944 were cousins. 928 was completely unrelated. 924 was garbage.
This is probably my favorite - the 930 (911 cousin).
(https://i.imgur.com/bILjDlx.png)
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924 and 944 were cousins. 928 was completely unrelated. 924 was garbage.
Sure, but they all have that long hood, front engine, hatchbacky look. Which I found to be okay on similar cars of the era like, say, the Datsun 280ZX, but didn't like on any version of Porsche.
But the one I like the least, has got to be the 914. Growing up, our next door neighbor had one exactly like this, same color and all.
(https://i.imgur.com/77LcFt3.jpeg)
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Geez
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Q cars
we called them "sleepers" back in the day
Oh I meant to comment on this a couple of days ago. An example of this, was the original Ford Taurus SHO. A friend had one and while I wouldn't describe the driving experience as "sporty"... the car was still deceptively quick.
(https://i.imgur.com/QXUg5yg.jpeg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/Z11aLBE.png)
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1970: Ford Mustang “Lawman” arriving in the Vietnam. Only 2 of these "Lawman" Super BOSS 429 Mustangs were ever made by Ford for tour to U.S. troops in Vietnam, Japan, Guam, Hawaii, & Mainland military bases. It's the only Ford Made BOSS 429 Mustang that's automatic in the world,1200hp, runs a quarter mile in 8.4 seconds at 185mph. Top speed depends on how it's geared but it's well over 185mph.
2013: The "Lawman" shows up at Midwest Car Exchange for a little visit to shake the dust off the rafters and show all the other muscle cars who the real BOSS is.
What a cool piece of history to stop at our showroom. This was not for sale, just stopped for us to take a look and admire a piece of history.
(https://i.imgur.com/GahA8L4.jpeg)
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"Unleash the power: A dynamic 1971 AMC Hornet SC/360 ad captures the spirit of speed and style."
(https://i.imgur.com/QTYicAF.jpeg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/nv3jEEB.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/s3yBP6T.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/kZIN42n.png)
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What year is that, ummm, Cougar?
The car. The CAR!
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69 of course
a fine 69
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(https://i.imgur.com/IGU6ytD.png)
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I'm not a motorcycle guy. My absolute favorite cousin was killed on one when I was about 13, and I've pretty much hated them ever since.
I'm ok with dirt bikes on private property, but I'll never be into motorcycles on public roads/highways.
Years ago when the helmet laws were raging a few of us were tossing back some suds and the discussion came up. We asked a fireman/medic friend what was the real difference in wearing a helmet. He said an open or closed casket
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so, no difference
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the Red sports car got it's first bath
in my driveway
all the exercise I need before a round of golf
the 2 golf bags I have wouldn't fit in the trunk
might have to be more creative next time
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Years ago when the helmet laws were raging a few of us were tossing back some suds and the discussion came up. We asked a fireman/medic friend what was the real difference in wearing a helmet. He said an open or closed casket
so, no difference
In a severe crash, probably no difference.
In a minor crash, quite a lot of difference.
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A friend said a helmet kept bugs from hitting his face.
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In a severe crash, probably no difference.
In a minor crash, quite a lot of difference.
a casket is a casket
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Donorcycles.
I have an EMS friend who says he and his colleagues refer to motorcycle riders as "job security."
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Just paid my car off. So that's one less thing.
It is not sporty. It is efficient and holds all my camping gear when needed.
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Just paid my car off. So that's one less thing.
Corngrats.
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Congrats on paying off the car (or anything else).
It just dawned on me that we haven't had a car payment in probably 25 years.
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I have a 5 year on the GTI because they claimed I'd get a better deal on the car if I took a loan, and the rate was 1.9%. OK then.
I should have the condo paid off in August 2025. Then I'll be back to owing nobody. Of course then the tax bills will hit. And credit cards which I use for nearly everything now.
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Donorcycles.
I have an EMS friend who says he and his colleagues refer to motorcycle riders as "job security."
(https://i.imgur.com/3k7P4Sj.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LOdtVgs.jpeg)
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I had a loan on my 2015 Chevy pickup
$1000 discount if you took the loan
Fine print said I had to have the loan for 12 months so paid it off then
the math worked
so, haven't had a payment since 2016
don't need loans or motorcycles or women at this stage of my life
life is simple and good
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I had to take loans on cars earlier in life, which probably is often the case. I had neighbors who always leased, but not me. I had paid off my first minivan in a few years, but kept it 12 years, it was a horse. So I started deducting $100 per month as a "future car payment" from my account put into a mutual fund. I didn't pay a lot of attention to it but finally noticed it had grown to enough to buy a nice new minivan outright. The new one had much better pickup and slightly better gas mileage and was larger to boot.
I eventually donated my old one with 155,000 miles on it to a "free food" outfit who told me they put another 30 K on it and then gave it to a church. Four cylinders with a 5 speed, bullet proof, easy to work on, etc.
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don't need loans or motorcycles or women at this stage of my life
life is simple and good
chivalrous,old romantic you are
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BTW, I was able to get both golf bags in the trunk
I know some of you were wondering
3 straight daze on the course
I need to take a day off
It's good to have a job today
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Why do you have two golf bags?
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one for my partner
she wanted a ride in the new car with the top off
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one for my partner
she wanted a ride in the new car with the top off
That's my kinda gal. Did you take your top off, too, or just let her fly solo on that one?
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solo baby
I was wearing a golf cap
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(https://i.imgur.com/yHJjZ11.png)
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That's my kinda gal. Did you take your top off, too, or just let her fly solo on that one?
😂😂😂😂😂
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That is a really ugly Oldsmobile.
This, is not:
(https://i.imgur.com/k1AgOj7.jpeg)
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I wouldn't drive either of them
not an oldsmobile guy
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Pontiac's entry in that market was much nicer looking.
(https://i.imgur.com/dRkWwgD.png)
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Yup I always liked the Fiero.
And I owned one of the MOPAR entries into that market:
(https://i.imgur.com/plQxSNC.jpeg)
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The Fiero of course was quite a bit different from the Firenza. The first Fieros were badly hampered by their "Iron Duke" 4 cylinder engine. The guts of a pretty good car were there, but GM didn't stay with it, which often is the case. I thought the Pontiac Solstice and the Saturn clone were nice looking and decent performers.
GM often would scattershot models all over looking for a hit, and nearly always missing, but if one was a near miss, they'd drop it instead of fixing it.
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The Soltice/Sky always looked pretty cool to me. When they came out, I was right in my first years of child-rearing so a 2-seat roadster wasn't really an option for me.
There's one down the street in pretty much immaculate condition, my daughter used to ogle it, until she got her Mustang.
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I mused about buying a used Sky for a bit as a fun car, but the prices weren't appealing, and I worried of course about maintenance.
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Here's a '72 396 El Camino towing a '70 LS6 Chevelle
(https://i.imgur.com/LPqN2Zh.jpeg)
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This is listed at $19 K:
2003 Porsche Boxster S - $18,999 - CarGurus (https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Saturn-Sky-Atlanta-d939_L6054#listing=381717937/NONE/DEFAULT)
(https://i.imgur.com/hfNkCzj.png)
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send the cashier's check
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Tiny.
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but, it has max headroom
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maybe not room for 2 sets of golf clubs
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Badge gets ornery when we diverge from threat topics, so this is this. What "sporty" kind of car have you always aspired to have one day, or what would you buy if practicality was not a consideration?
(https://i.imgur.com/TnEA8qI.jpeg)
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My dream exotic car has always been:
(https://i.imgur.com/rziWIoA.jpeg)
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A 911 in its purest form. Developed in Flacht. And built for a single purpose: maximum driving pleasure. The 911 S/T combines the essence of 60 years of the 911 with its puristic lightweight design, its breathtaking GT high performance and significantly reduced sound insulation. The result is an unprecedented combination of purism, agility and unique driving dynamics.
(https://i.imgur.com/p1yTDRK.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/hb5MYsV.png)
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We need a DISlike button for the above.
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Regarding FF's picture not sure if anyone remembers the syndicated one panel comic strip HERMAN in the 70/80s.It was pretty funny one time Herman's wife was in the drive way all giddy with her hands clasped together and admiring "Oh Herman Thank You a new Ford Pinto with Firestone 500s" or sumsuch
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We need a DISlike button for the above.
would just get you in trouble
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Not really the Tribe's dialogue here doesn't mind throwing fuel on the fire
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sooner or later he'd use it on you or Orange man and hurt your feelings
or maybe he'd show constraint and reserve it for Huskers & Sooners?
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sooner or later he'd use it on you or Orange man and hurt your feelings
or maybe he'd show constraint and reserve it for Huskers & Sooners?
That can't hurt my feelings only Michigan cheating and seemingly getting away with then winning an NC can do that.Oh and this shady,sham Federal Gov't. Oh and the Indians losing to the woeful Cubs in Game 7 by one run
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I never had a "dream car", not one anyway. For a while I aspired for a Corvette, in part because they were somewhat affordable and good values, but it would not have been some dream car like a Lambo or Ferrari. Today, if I could pick one, it might be this one. At my age, I'm finding comfort to be more important than performance.
Feeding it gas would be a bit painful.
(https://i.imgur.com/h61bMqp.png)
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If you can afford that, you don't worry about the gas.
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guess I'm not much of a dreamer
Wanted a 928 or 911 back in the day
not practical
the Vette is good enough for me
maybe a Z06 someday
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If you can afford that, you don't worry about the gas.
I'm still a bit annoyed by the price of 93 octane
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I am enjoying now clicking on regular instead iof premium, even at Costco. Overall, I'm pretty happy with this Hyundai, so far. It's more comfortable and spacious while driving well into the OK range. I'm no longer interested in driving at 9/10ths.
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I've always been a Ferrari and Lambo guy, but I think Aston Martin is making the most beautiful cars on the planet right now.
I'd settle for one of these if I had to...
(https://i.imgur.com/CLmFCux.jpeg)
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Lookswise, I think Am and Jaguar do a great job.
(https://i.imgur.com/6hPZG2G.png)
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(https://i.imgur.com/PMFq9SY.png)
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I'm still a bit annoyed by the price of 93 octane
Wawa is where we get our gas. They have 91, which is what we require for the Benz.
It's about $0.25 less than the 93. We hold 20 gallons (+/-), so the savings is half a Big Mac.
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But Big Macs ain't cheap anymore, either...
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Nope.
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I've always been a Ferrari and Lambo guy, but I think Aston Martin is making the most beautiful cars on the planet right now.
I'd settle for one of these if I had to...
(https://i.imgur.com/CLmFCux.jpeg)
Agreed on Aston Martin. They look fantastic.
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That is definitely a beautiful car.
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Wawa is where we get our gas. They have 91, which is what we require for the Benz.
It's about $0.25 less than the 93. We hold 20 gallons (+/-), so the savings is half a Big Mac.
did you get your free coffee?
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I don't drink coffee anymore.
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I've started drinking tea in the afternoon. I used to do that at work every day. I still have coffee in the AM, one large cup.
I was chuckling that "they" made having a coffee maker at your desk at work against "safety rules". I would hide mine, they'd have a safety check once a month, if you flunked, you got signed up to do another check. Folks who did the checks were, obviously, not very motivated to note violations. Usually, folks would pass it back and forth between about five folks who didn't care, they'd just walk around the building after hours and check some box and give a violation to one of the five.
I figured it was to force folks to buy rather bad coffee at the little company store in the bldg.
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I drink 2 rather large cups each morning
helps keep things moving
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(https://i.imgur.com/cYeCrKn.png)
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I keep forgetting that I had a 1980 Firebird Formula. I dropped it quickly. Too many problems.
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yup, 77-80 wasn't a good period for most vehicles
I drove a 78 Caprice Classic
not sure what about it was classic, besides maybe the back seat!
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yup, 77-80 wasn't a good period for most vehicles
I drove a 78 Caprice Classic
not sure what about it was classic, besides maybe the back seat!
Probably more like 74-94. Lots of shitty cars were made here in that period.
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The emissions stuff really hit around 1970 but got more serious 1973ish, and most cars had catalytic converters by 1975. Most also still had carburetors, which I think was probably the prime overall source of reliability issues. Once cars started having fuel injection, they mostly started to be more reliable enginewise.
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I think this one is pretty attractive, and for a sporty car, it's not terribly impractical or hard to drive daily.
(https://i.imgur.com/cTnYqob.png)
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but, it's a ford
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but, it's a ford
I was impressed that Ford never took a Federal bailout.
One reason I'd never buy a Chevy or Chrysler product again.
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A friend won't buy a VW because of the pollution scam they ran. I'm not so altruistic, I'm going to buy what I THINK is best for me.
I don't view any of the car companies as somehow more "moral" than any others.
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I keep forgetting that I had a 1980 Firebird Formula. I dropped it quickly. Too many problems.
My older brother drove a 1980 Camaro Rally Sport that he loved. He'd wrecked it by the time I could drive so I never got to borrow it...
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I think this one is pretty attractive, and for a sporty car, it's not terribly impractical or hard to drive daily.
(https://i.imgur.com/cTnYqob.png)
Yup. It's not as fancy as that 50th edition but I love driving my daughter's convertible Mustang. Sporty car indeed.
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And, there are a lot of folks who've commented on the similarities in looks between the AM and the Mustang.
(https://i.imgur.com/wM1swrk.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/y4dsoDC.jpeg)
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The rental 'stangs are not great to drive in my experience, but the last one I had in San Diego was for whatever reason better than the first few. The first couple were V6 models, and then the rest were I4s with that 10 speed, which I did not care for.
But they are practical for two people on a trip with modest luggage.
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(https://i.imgur.com/C1U3rsK.png)
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I remember when raised white letter tires were "racey". My '73 Nova had'em. Firestone Wide Ovals. I was unclear what a wide oval might comprise, but I preferred having round tires.
the GT took that one step further. Not in terms of actual performance, as its only powerplant was the 258 (4.2 L) six, although it did pack a pretty decent 120 net hp for that era, thanks to a two-barrel carb. The 304 V8 had been cancelled back in 1976. But the ’78 Gremlins did get a badly needed new dashboard, shared with the Concord, and the GT got those big fender flares.
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hard no on the AMCs back in the day
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hard no on the AMCs back in the day
I don't know anything about their quality, reliability, or driving experience, but the AMC Javelin had some pretty nice looking models back in the day. Obviously styled similar to the Challengers, Camaros, and Mustangs of the same vintage.
(https://i.imgur.com/B2uI02n.jpeg)
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Today, if I could pick one, it might be this one. At my age, I'm finding comfort to be more important than performance.
Feeding it gas would be a bit painful.
(https://i.imgur.com/h61bMqp.png)
Sharp - what is it ? I can't make out the emblem and I haven't had the chance to ya know shop for one. Cleaning out the space left by my 2002 VW and might be in the market for one :D
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(https://i.imgur.com/C1U3rsK.png)
Kind of resembles a 2 dr Rabbit/Golf with an extended front end. Must be when Corporate America started lying to the public - ya paint a number on it.Sure the CEO and the BoD all had one
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My green ragtop is a Bentley.
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The Man Who Finally Made the Corvette Mid-Engine Is Retiring (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/tadge-juechter-corvette-chief-engineer-retiring/?utm_campaign=true_anthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_type=organic&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2xXbRjRCqprN1grfws83RNREhkAvfywDw4xhHIeYUe5_PDJZGvkM33SXU_aem_AdNlFHJ9iau88rPt3urB5JQE6mNEwHwhdXeRDz0WOOIxIhJPy_s_DVoerAL2sqcFdGDv2wuSalQRPZ2tgbK-C7Q7)
Corvette Executive Chief Engineer, Tadge Juechter, is retiring. All good things must come to an end it seems, even if that good thing lasts for over three decades. Juechter began working with Corvettes (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/corvette/) in 1993, joining at the tail end of the C4’s reign as America’s sports car, but just in time to dig into the then-revolutionary C5. Prior to the launch of the C7 Corvette, Juechter was promoted to Corvette Chief Engineer, just the fifth person to hold that title. When the Obama administration realized that Corvette was one of the only profitable model lines, the C7 arrived. Tadge and his team followed it up with the brilliant, mid-engine C8 Corvette, the machine that took home our 2020 Car of the Year honors (https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-corvette-c8-2020-car-of-the-year/). The raced-out Z06 iteration then won our 2023 Performance Vehicle of the Year award (https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-corvette-z06-2023-motortrend-performance-vehicle-of-the-year/). Not bad, Tadge.
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(https://i.imgur.com/CnNkFxj.png)
This is the Hennesey tuned version with 1000 hp. I figure Caddy could tune that themselves if there weren't tradeoffs aside from mpgs. The odd thing, to me, is the extra hp is largely wasted. It's still RWD. It won't be any faster 0-60, maybe in the quarter you might shade a few tenths? Maybe from 60-120 it's faster? Maybe a higher top end? So, in the world of extra legal speeds it might be a touch faster. You could run slicks and get a few more tenths.
Contrast this with adding AWD (which isn't feasible) which would probably reduce 0-60 times by a ~second with the same engine.
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(https://i.imgur.com/CnNkFxj.png)
This is the Hennesey tuned version with 1000 hp. I figure Caddy could tune that themselves if there weren't tradeoffs aside from mpgs. The odd thing, to me, is the extra hp is largely wasted. It's still RWD. It won't be any faster 0-60, maybe in the quarter you might shade a few tenths? Maybe from 60-120 it's faster? Maybe a higher top end? So, in the world of extra legal speeds it might be a touch faster. You could run slicks and get a few more tenths.
Contrast this with adding AWD (which isn't feasible) which would probably reduce 0-60 times by a ~second with the same engine.
The tune = paint a number on the door.
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The Man Who Finally Made the Corvette Mid-Engine Is Retiring (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/news/tadge-juechter-corvette-chief-engineer-retiring/?utm_campaign=true_anthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_type=organic&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2xXbRjRCqprN1grfws83RNREhkAvfywDw4xhHIeYUe5_PDJZGvkM33SXU_aem_AdNlFHJ9iau88rPt3urB5JQE6mNEwHwhdXeRDz0WOOIxIhJPy_s_DVoerAL2sqcFdGDv2wuSalQRPZ2tgbK-C7Q7)
Corvette Executive Chief Engineer, Tadge Juechter, is retiring. All good things must come to an end it seems, even if that good thing lasts for over three decades. Juechter began working with Corvettes (https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/corvette/) in 1993, joining at the tail end of the C4’s reign as America’s sports car, but just in time to dig into the then-revolutionary C5. Prior to the launch of the C7 Corvette, Juechter was promoted to Corvette Chief Engineer, just the fifth person to hold that title. When the Obama administration realized that Corvette was one of the only profitable model lines, the C7 arrived. Tadge and his team followed it up with the brilliant, mid-engine C8 Corvette, the machine that took home our 2020 Car of the Year honors (https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-corvette-c8-2020-car-of-the-year/). The raced-out Z06 iteration then won our 2023 Performance Vehicle of the Year award (https://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-corvette-z06-2023-motortrend-performance-vehicle-of-the-year/). Not bad, Tadge.
odd comment - Tadge a big supporter?