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Topic: QB with the most help around him

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2020, 11:51:01 PM »
Well, pick a Miami QB from 86-92. Testaverde, Walsh, Erickson, Toretta.

Matt Leinart was another one. Probably a lot of FSU’s QBs during their great run from 87-2000. Ward, Kanell, Wills, Weinke.  Every Bama QB since Saban has been the there.

Ohio St and UGA QBs the last few years. Not that any of these guys weren’t good players in their own right but they were all surrounded by talent everywhere.
Okay, so this would make me want to rank each school's QBs in terms of perceived talent.  I'll just take Bama QBs under Saban.  They've all been blessed with great defenses, great college RBs, great everything, as you've noted.  Here they are:
07, 08 - John Parker Wilson
09, 10 - Greg McElroy
11-13 - AJ McCarron
14 - Blake Sims
15 - Jake Coker
16, 17 - Jalen Hurts
18, 19 - Tua Tagovailoa
20 - Mac Jones
.
Saban obviously has changed his offensive tactics since 2018.  Judging by talent and not citing stats, I'd rank them:
Tua, McCarron, Jones, Sims, Wilson, McElroy, Hurts, Coker
.
I guess when I think of Dorsey on Miami - he wasn't a weak link necessarily, but he was the weakest link of the team.  I don't think Tua was the weakest link of his Bama teams (injuries notwithstanding)...McCarron may have been in '11, but not after that.  I think, career-wise, maybe from Sims-on (in my rankings), you could say they were all the weakest links.  
So it's not 100%, but after the first couple, yeah.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2020, 11:52:13 PM »
Ryan Broyles played 3 years with the Lions.
Juaquin Iglesias and Manny Johnson were very nice college WRs.
Yes, Jermaine Gresham was a good TE.  He had a 9-year career in the NFL.
As a Gator, I was scared to death of Gresham dominating that game.  He was productive, but didn't go ballistic.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2020, 11:53:13 PM »
Who was the one other than DeMarco Murray?

Never mind.  Chris Brown.  I thought he might be the one, but I didn't remember that he had more yards than Murray did.

1220 to 1002.

Two very good backs.

But I was thinking "dominant" in the way the guy you mentioned in the OP--Barry Sanders--was dominant.  So no Adrian Peterson, Billy Sims, Steve Owens, Greg Pruitt, Joe Washington types.
I mean, he had two 1,000-yards backs and the best tight end in the country. I guess I'm playing the game wrong.

So is Jack Mildren a guy to name? Ran for nearly 1,300 yards and posted a 199.5 passer rating (on 5.6 passes a game).

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2020, 11:53:49 PM »

07, 08 - John Parker Wilson
09, 10 - Greg McElroy
11-13 - AJ McCarron
14 - Blake Sims
15 - Jake Coker
16, 17 - Jalen Hurts
18, 19 - Tua Tagovailoa
20 - Mac Jones

Ugh, shit.
Nick Saban has won 5 and may win 6 national championships with these QBs.  That's disgusting.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2020, 11:54:58 PM »
I mean, he had two 1,000-yards backs and the best tight end in the country. I guess I'm playing the game wrong.

So is Jack Mildren a guy to name? Ran for nearly 1,300 yards and posted a 199.5 passer rating (on 5.6 passes a game).
You're playing the game correctly.
Mildren's QB card makes that OU team VERY dangerous in Whoa Nellie!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2020, 11:55:18 PM »
Ryan Broyles played 3 years with the Lions.
Juaquin Iglesias and Manny Johnson were very nice college WRs.
Yes, Jermaine Gresham was a good TE.  He had a 9-year career in the NFL.
I suppose that was mean to Broyles, but he went from two-time All-American to 21 games in three years as a top-55 pick. Tough go.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2020, 11:57:19 PM »
Well, pick a Miami QB from 86-92. Testaverde, Walsh, Erickson, Toretta.

Matt Leinart was another one. Probably a lot of FSU’s QBs during their great run from 87-2000. Ward, Kanell, Wills, Weinke.  Every Bama QB since Saban has been the there.

Ohio St and UGA QBs the last few years. Not that any of these guys weren’t good players in their own right but they were all surrounded by talent everywhere.
Leinart in the year Bush and White had all the carries, sure.  Great pair of WRs, too.  And a great D to keep getting him the ball back.  Yet Leinart is a 1st round pick, his NFL team surrounds him with little talent, and he stinks.  
I feel like it's rinse, repeat with this when it comes to QBs.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2020, 11:59:37 PM »


For the original game, does Tebow count? He had Rainey, Demps, Harvin, Murphy, Hernandez, Cooper.
Trask had Pitts and Toney, plus the other kid who skipped the bowl
Trevor Lawrence had Travis Etienne, Tee Higgins, Ross, Rogers
That whole crew around Danny Wuerffel
But you wouldn't put those teammates over Tebow in terms of talent, would you?  Maybe Harvin.  
Lawrence is surrounded by great talent, yes.  And a weak-ass conference, lol.

Wuerffel had the same team around him that Terry Dean did.  One got benched and never amounted to much and the other won the Heisman.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Kris60

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2020, 12:02:24 AM »
Turner Gill. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2020, 12:06:43 AM »
When I asked about when Osborne earnestly went to the option, Gill was cited by several Huskers here as the reason.  
.

I'm worried this thread is dwelling more on system than perceived hierarchy of talent within a roster.  Idk, maybe not.  What say the Sea of Red?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Kris60

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2020, 12:10:59 AM »
When I asked about when Osborne earnestly went to the option, Gill was cited by several Huskers here as the reason. 
.

I'm worried this thread is dwelling more on system than perceived hierarchy of talent within a roster.  Idk, maybe not.  What say the Sea of Red?
Gill was a terrific college QB but the guy snapping him the ball was a 2 time Outland Trophy winner and was so good they created and named a trophy after him. He was handing to the Heisman Trophy winner and throwing to the Number 1 overall pick in the draft.

He fits the bill.

Kris60

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2020, 12:26:16 AM »
Kerry Collins had great players all around him in 94.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2020, 04:03:59 AM »
I think assigning credit on a football team is still in the stone ages. 
Like for a QB, how much does a great RB affect his production?  Or a good WR?  A good OL?  
.
Good point about '83 UNL.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: QB with the most help around him
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2020, 10:37:21 AM »
Aaron Murray might qualify.  He passed for over 3,000 yards in all four of his seasons, which is a something for UGA (and the SEC).

He was accurate and heady, sort of like Jake Fromm.

 

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