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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39004 on: November 06, 2024, 12:38:40 PM »
Speaker Johnson thread nuked as requested.

No offense meant to @Gigem as it was not his intent for it to go where it went.
Well, it was rather mild by our standards.  I didn’t need it nuked. I kinda felt like it ran its course. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39005 on: November 06, 2024, 12:41:02 PM »
I really see no chance of broad deflation.  Volatile components will go up and down, core items will just go up, hopefully slowly now.

A lot of folks think if much broader areas of land are opened up for drilling petroleum prices will come down, a lot.  I disagree.

The only way to get broad deflation is to have a depression.  If the economy really takes off, we should expect higher inflation, not lower.

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39006 on: November 06, 2024, 12:41:41 PM »
It's still all a function of supply and demand.  Any sector where supply can be increased, prices will, broadly, come down.  Where demand is decreased (probably not much of a factor as far as what you're talking about here), prices will, broadly, come down.

Whatever happened, my hope was that housing and groceries can become more affordable.  I think there are ways to facilitate that, though I don't know if any of it will be achieved.  You need more than just good policy, and that's assuming you get good policy. 

Fingers crossed.  We need cheaper food, housing, and continued cheap (relatively speaking) energy.

We could all use cheaper/better medical insurance, but I have to admit, I don't have a clue how to make that happen, and I handled insurance for a clinic for a few years, so I like to think I know a bit about it. Most ideas I hear make me think the person either doesn't understand the problem, doesn't understand basic economic realities, or both. But, there are many smarter people than me, so maybe there's a way. 
Housing remains tough because of the way we have turned it into an appreciating asset. Lotta folks want it to be easy To buy a house in theory, but hard to buy their house and practicality.

jgvol

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39007 on: November 06, 2024, 12:44:36 PM »
Democrats have historically (at least in my lifetime) struggled with how to fight over economics. Part of that is probably that they need a decent amount of the Wall Street/Tech crowd to fund their campaigns.

In hindsight, a better message on inflation may have been twofold (I'm not stating what follows as fact, I'm stating it as a way to message well within the norms of politics): (1) Inflation was caused by Covid, the response to which the prior administration completely screwed up (show video of Trump struggling with Covid encased in his limosine on the way to Walter Reed). But Joe/Kamala, you contributed to it with the American Rescue Plan--how do you respond to that? (2) The American Rescue Plan prevented people from being evicted and from losing their unemployment benefits--that was all the result of COVID, and people who were living paycheck to paycheck--or relying on unemployment benefits--would have been out on the street were it not for those benefits. We kept the economy going after he broke it (pictures of closed businesses contrasted with Trump acting like a plutocrat--maybe golfing.)

Maybe I wasn't paying very close attention to all of the talk show appearances, but I didn't hear much of that. It's a least a way to fight back, rather than: inflation has come down.

I know lots of people here would completely disagree with what I wrote above; that's not my point. My point is that Kamala/the Democrats focused their energy on Trump being a bad guy (which people had already become accustomed to and apparently don't mind), instead of fighting on the issues that people care the most about.

So on to 2026.

All that, and.....

The legal citizens of the country, struggling with the aforementioned crippling inflation, are not big fans of opening the border to illegal aliens coming here for freebies --- and getting them in spades.

You cannot have open borders, AND a welfare state.

Tends to piss off the legal, taxpaying, working class stiff.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39008 on: November 06, 2024, 12:47:58 PM »

I know lots of people here would completely disagree with what I wrote above; that's not my point. My point is that Kamala/the Democrats focused their energy on Trump being a bad guy (which people had already become accustomed to and apparently don't mind), instead of fighting on the issues that people care the most about.

I agree, there was very little positive messaging from the democratic presidential campaign outlining a vision and plan.  Mainly just criticisms of the opponent nominee.  Probably hurt them significantly.  

I recall Vivek in the primaries saying Republicans have been in the same trap for many cycles now, and that they needed to do better at positive messaging.  It makes me wonder how much of campaign messaging is focused on outlining what a candidate is for, as opposed to critcizing what they don't like.  And also if any data exists describing the impact/effectiveness of one vs. the other. 

Like you said, many would disagree with what I'm about to say.  I recall Obama in 2008 running on quite a bit of positive messaging, and I think it helped him.  While I frequently disagreed with him, I think it's indisputable he was a gifted, inspirational speaker, and he put it to use doing more than just criticizing McCain.  

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39009 on: November 06, 2024, 12:48:18 PM »
With out diving into a critical response: yes, the Democrats also failed on their immigration messaging--as they tend to.

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39010 on: November 06, 2024, 12:50:28 PM »
I agree, there was very little positive messaging from the democratic presidential campaign outlining a vision and plan.  Mainly just criticisms of the opponent nominee.  Probably hurt them significantly. 

I recall Vivek in the primaries saying Republicans have been in the same trap for many cycles now, and that they needed to do better at positive messaging.  It makes me wonder how much of campaign messaging is focused on outlining what a candidate is for, as opposed to critcizing what they don't like.  And also if any data exists describing the impact/effectiveness of one vs. the other.

Like you said, many would disagree with what I'm about to say.  I recall Obama in 2008 running on quite a bit of positive messaging, and I think it helped him.  While I frequently disagreed with him, I think it's indisputable he was a gifted, inspirational speaker, and he put it to use doing more than just criticizing McCain. 
I think Kamala tried to run on a positive message, but she thought that "I'm not Donald Trump [and I'm not Joe Biden]" was that message. She was wrong (as were her handlers). The message--as you said--needs to be "we're going to do [these] positive things," not "I'm not as bad as that guy." 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39011 on: November 06, 2024, 12:56:36 PM »
I am musing about past races, and think Reagan and Obama both managed to sound positive about things.  They also were both running in very trying economic times of course, but they presented at least positive imagery.  Nearly every ad I saw (before muting the TV) was hyper negative.

Trump at least claimed he would fix things.  Harris had the anchor of being incumbent and VP.

SuperMario

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39012 on: November 06, 2024, 12:56:55 PM »

We could all use cheaper/better medical insurance, but I have to admit, I don't have a clue how to make that happen, and I handled insurance for a clinic for a few years, so I like to think I know a bit about it. Most ideas I hear make me think the person either doesn't understand the problem, doesn't understand basic economic realities, or both. But, there are many smarter people than me, so maybe there's a way. 
Stop allowing medical facilities to charge absurd prices for certain things would be a great start. In my hospital stay, was tough to see my billing and each Tylenol pill was $12 when I could go down to Costco and get 400 of them for $19.  Maybe i'm missing something, but I don't understand the basic economic reality of that. 

To your point, the scale of the problem is massive and far above and beyond what I personally could fix, but when I see Cleveland Clinic buying blocks and blocks of old neighborhoods and building excessively beautiful and expensive buildings under their Non-profit status, I'm thinking there's some blatantly obvious areas that could be at least small steps forward. 

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39013 on: November 06, 2024, 12:59:02 PM »
I really see no chance of broad deflation.  Volatile components will go up and down, core items will just go up, hopefully slowly now.

A lot of folks think if much broader areas of land are opened up for drilling petroleum prices will come down, a lot.  I disagree.

The only way to get broad deflation is to have a depression.  If the economy really takes off, we should expect higher inflation, not lower.
Quite the conundrum opening borders just increased the intensity of the financial woes. What happened to our food industry?covid,foreign investment of farmland and meat packing plants,nefarious design by those holding office the last 4 yrs? This is far and away the worst inflation regarding groceries and home price spikes with accompanying taxes.I hope this administration can look into and restore order to the mess made - perhaps deliberately
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39014 on: November 06, 2024, 01:03:50 PM »
Stop allowing medical facilities to charge absurd prices for certain things would be a great start. In my hospital stay, was tough to see my billing and each Tylenol pill was $12 
I'm told some part of this is that a fair number of patients don't pay at all for services, and another portion pays a very controlled low rate (Medicare,Medicaid).  So, they charge the rest of us $$$$$$.

I noticed my eye drops (antibac) cost me $5, the stated "rack rate" was $75.  This is a tiny bottle of moxifloxacin.

I'm very lucky to have pretty cheap and good health insurance, no doubt with those controlled rates costing other money.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39015 on: November 06, 2024, 01:17:19 PM »
Stop allowing medical facilities to charge absurd prices for certain things would be a great start.
Holy crap - so much this,I paid out of pocket over 8200.00 that didn't involve any procedure/surgeries,twice lying in a bed 6 months apart with leg infections. That was after my health Ins paid 11,400. (twice) for a total of 22,800.Then after all of that the hospitals tried charging me 284.00 for a 6 minute ear cleaning that the doctor suggested but they didn't tell me would be additional. Of corse those fine folks added a "facilities charge" and I told them 🖕. Then they told me It was going to collections and I told them 🖕. Then they told me last chance and i told them 🖕 and here we are almost 2 yrs later.Round those chiselers up and waterboard the lot of them. 

 I asked their collections if I could alleviate the "facilities charge" by meeting Doc in the parking lot if that would be better for them. But if it rained we'd have to step up and use the garage and have not heard back from them
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39016 on: November 06, 2024, 01:23:59 PM »
I recall Obama in 2008 running on quite a bit of positive messaging, and I think it helped him.  While I frequently disagreed with him, I think it's indisputable he was a gifted, inspirational speaker, and he put it to use doing more than just criticizing McCain. 
Axelrod was a brilliant strategist. Truly.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #39017 on: November 06, 2024, 01:24:09 PM »
About half of medical costs in the US are paid for by government.

 

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