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Topic: In other news ...

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Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30604 on: April 16, 2024, 11:11:41 AM »
Kind of like how Israel was backed into a corner and was always going to respond to Hamas aggression, huh?

Only with that, because Hamas uses their own people as human shields, the only inevitability was a lot of dead Palestinians.....because of Hamas. 
what you just said is not only fantastically stupid, you're comparing apples to oranges. if you want to get real about it- the creation of Hamas was a direct response to Israeli occupation and aggression. Israel forced elections in Gaza in 2006, tried obstructing said elections to make sure their preferred candidates won, Hamas won said election anyway and Israel said "nope, you're not allowed to vote for them, so we're going to blockade and lay siege to your land" and they have turned Gaza into an open air prison ever since.

The Israeli government under Netanyahu has funded Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars, and has for decades. Netanyahu has used Hamas to split the West Bank and Gaza and to ensure there will never be a two state solution.

Spare me the bullsh*t about Hamas using their own people as human shields. Israel targets civilians for mass slaughter, it's part of their policy. They do not care about "collateral damage" at all. They average Israeli does not view Palestinians as human beings. They call them animals and make fun of them on TikTok/Instagram.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30605 on: April 16, 2024, 11:11:47 AM »
Hamas actions are Iranian actions.  Iran started this portion of the conflict on October 7th when its proxy military organization went into Israel for a rape-and-murder festival.

The only thing new here is that Iran is finally acting openly rather than waging a shadow war through its proxies.  That is significant but it doesn't change the fact that Iran started it this time, back in October, using Hamas forces.
Hamas actions are not Iranian actions. That is just blatantly incorrect and false. Hamas and Iran have had many spats- they are not as closely linked as you just implied they were. Hamas = Sunni Arabs, Iranians = Shia Persians. They aren't exactly BFF's, there are serious tensions there and there continues to be a major riff between Hamas leadership and Iran over Iran's full-stop backing of Assad (Hamas strongly supports the Sunni overthrow of Assad) in Syria. It's more of the friend of my enemy is my friend type of situation. 

And really, that is all besides the point. EVEN if Hamas were Iranian proxies to the level you just implied (they aren't) - it was beyond reckless for Israel to hit directly at Iran at their embassy compound in Damascus. Iran was always going to have to respond to save face, and if Israel retaliates to something THE ISRAELIS STARTED- and an attack from Iran that by the way clearly looks to me like Iranian leadership intended to fail (Iran gave 72 hr warning of a strike- who does this) - it could cause a much greater war to break out that the US could get dragged into.

And by your own above reasoning, that means the Russians should just go ahead and attack the US and start WWIII, since Ukraine is effectively a colony of the United States- a complete proxy wholly dependent on the United States giving it military intelligence, cash, loans, and shitloads of weapons. Because whatever support Iran has given Hamas (and the evidence for that is minimal and full of contradictions) - US has given Ukraine 10000000000000x fold.

Said it before and I'll say it again, Netanyahu should've just drone striked himself. It was HIS DECISION to give Hamas upwards of a billion dollars over the years. Netanyahu has funded Hamas 10x compared to whatever scraps Iran has ever given them. Netanyahu and people close to him openly admit they've used Hamas to split the Palestinians and to prevent a two state solution from ever happening.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30606 on: April 16, 2024, 11:12:28 AM »
IMO Iran acted stupidly with their ineffective broadside this past weekend.  It gave Israel the green light to do what needs to be done and shored up support for Israel in the US.
yeah, no. US does not have the stomach nor capability to launch a full scale invasion of Iran. US is not going to war with Iran for Israel. Just isn't going to happen. Support for Israel in the US is declining rapidly. Never seen anything like it before in my life. And it's ABOUT GOD DAMN TIME. 

Israel does not = the United States of America. The United States of America's vital global strategic interests does not = Israel's. The United States of America's national security does not = Israel's. 

Israel is a drain on the United States of America. It's about god damn time we remove that parasitic worm.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30607 on: April 16, 2024, 11:13:22 AM »
I don't know if it's "brilliant" because I think it was really Iran's only option, but it probably served its purpose.  Sure everyone in the West knows how futile the attack was, but nobody in Iran is going to hear the Western news.

If nothing else they forced the United States to spend up to a $1 billion shooting down a bunch of $3,000 drones and a handful of missiles.
FIFY

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30608 on: April 16, 2024, 11:15:57 AM »
Lots of things in Iran to blow up from the Israeli perspective.  Facilities related to Iran's nuclear weapons program would probably be a priority.  Kind of hoping Israel hits Iran's petroleum production and refining facilities to give the Biden administration the middle finger more than anything else.
What are you even saying here? Wtf? 

The Israeli's have given Biden the middle finger at every turn, and he's done nothing to reign them in and is complicit in a genocide. Not sure what you're going on about here. 

Iran is one of the worlds largest oil producers. Do you really want to pay even more for gas and everything else? cause gas prices inflate = price of everything inflates. yeah, I hate Biden as much as the next guy, but no thanks. Americans are already having a tough enough time to pay for sh*t as is. 

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30609 on: April 16, 2024, 11:17:05 AM »
gas prices are high enuff

IMO
this. lol. 

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30610 on: April 16, 2024, 11:29:34 AM »
I'd guess most of the drones and cruise missiles were shot down with cannon, maybe some with Sidewinders.

The ballistic missiles would have required Aegis or equivalents from the Israelis.

As I noted, it was a useful systems test.

The US produces over 4.5 times as much oil as does Iran.  I think most of Iran's oil ends up in China and India.

Mdot21

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30611 on: April 16, 2024, 11:38:18 AM »
I'd guess most of the drones and cruise missiles were shot down with cannon, maybe some with Sidewinders.

The ballistic missiles would have required Aegis or equivalents from the Israelis.

As I noted, it was a useful systems test.

The US produces over 4.5 times as much oil as does Iran.  I think most of Iran's oil ends up in China and India.
the US shot down the vast majority of those ballistic missiles and drones- not Israel- and Iran gave 72 hour notice that a strike was imminent. if they really wanted to strike successfully- they wouldn't have announced sh*t and just done it.

the price of oil is dictated upon a world wide market of supply and demand. Iran is the 3rd largest producer of oil in OPEC- the major player and market mover. Doesn't really matter if their oil ends up in the West (it doesn't, sanctions) - the price of oil- and in turn the price of everything else- will go up- if their oil producing capacity is destroyed and taken offline. will remove a chunk of global supply, and global demand ain't going anywhere- which will just cause a chain reaction to move prices upwards. China and India will still need to import shitloads of oil, and less oil for them to buy means more competition for the oil that's left- and prices of everything will go up.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30612 on: April 16, 2024, 11:41:50 AM »
I have not seen any breakdown as to how many of the incoming were shot down by the US versus Israel. 

My GUESS would be Israel would have shot down the majority since they were the target and have a competent air force and antimissile capability.

Israel Iran conflict: US shot down most Iranian missiles and drones, not Israel - India Today

My guess appears to be incorrect.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30613 on: April 16, 2024, 11:48:03 AM »
What was in wave of Iranian attacks and how were they thwarted? (bbc.com)

Of the 120 ballistic missiles fired by Iran, about half of them failed on launch or crashed mid-flight, one of the officials told CBS.

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30614 on: April 16, 2024, 11:48:46 AM »
EVEN if Hamas were Iranian proxies to the level you just implied (they aren't) -
Sure they are.  Having ideological differences is one of the problems of using a private militia rather than a state military, but those problems go away when united against a common enemy.  Iran helped organize the October 7th massacre and Hamas enacted it.  Iran also uses Hezbollah and a dozen other proxies to help wage its wars. 

Syria is an Iranian ally and allows Iran to use Syria as a major hub for enabling its missions in Israel.

None of this is new.

Note: I'm not saying the US should become any more engaged in this conflict than we already are, and I see reasonable cause to diminish our activities there.  I'm just pointing out that neither Israel nor Iran and its numerous allies and proxies are innocent in this.  Both have been bad actors and it's silly and naive to white-knight for one over the other.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2024, 12:39:35 PM by utee94 »

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30615 on: April 16, 2024, 12:49:58 PM »
When gun violence in America is discussed, people typically think about mass shootings, homicides or even domestic violence. But, in fact, the majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides.

In 2023, more than 42,967 people died from gun related injuries. Over half of those deaths were suicides.


Adam Garber, executive director of CeaseFirePA, a research group that advocates for stricter gun laws, says big cities have typically had the highest gun death rates. But that trend has started to shift. Last year, York, a small city in Pennsylvania, had a higher per capita gun death rate than Philadelphia, Garber said.

"It is really everywhere right now," Garber said.

Every year, more than 900 people in Pennsylvania die by gun suicides and 48 are wounded by gun suicide attempts. Suicides make up the majority of gun deaths in Pennsylvania.


https://www.npr.org/2024/04/16/1243924108/gun-violence-suicide-united-states
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30616 on: April 16, 2024, 12:57:55 PM »
Groups like Hamas/Hezbollah and the Houtis might not be strictly controlled by the Iranians, but they are enabled by them and have obvious common cause.  I don't know if Iran "orders them around", I doubt it, they might make suggestions of course.

Historically, Arabs and Persians don't get along, don't like each other, view the other with considerable disdain and suspicion.  The enemy of my enemy ...


utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #30617 on: April 16, 2024, 01:04:35 PM »
Groups like Hamas/Hezbollah and the Houtis might not be strictly controlled by the Iranians, but they are enabled by them and have obvious common cause.  I don't know if Iran "orders them around", I doubt it, they might make suggestions of course.

Historically, Arabs and Persians don't get along, don't like each other, view the other with considerable disdain and suspicion.  The enemy of my enemy ...



Iran provides planning and operational/logistical support for missions.  They would never do this for missions they aren't aligned with.

Again, this is nothing new.

 

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