Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

People grouping together and hating all Michigan fans again. Must mean Michigan is good again.

Meh- those truths were always true, and my position on Harbaugh has been rock solid from day one.   Good coach, real asshole.  Same way you feel about Meyer.
If a player from another team did and said what Winovich has, you would be ALL OVER
That player.   
Let’s not get the “ we can dish it out but we can’t take it” going on.    

I like it

I enjoy it

 a little more attitude and emotion creates more value

no one swung a helmet, no one was injured, no one suspended or punished

all in good clean fun

good for the B1G

Nah, Harbaugh is just a really weird dude, whereas Meyer is a snake and a liar and a person that steps on others to raise himself up. That opinion was formed in Bowling Green 17 years ago and nothing I’ve seen since has changed that.
If I was an opposing fan, I’m sure I wouldn’t like Winovich if that interview  was mostly what I knew of him. Nearly everyone that comes across him loves his energy and his upbeat spirit towards life. Seems to be a very high character guy. He had an immature moment after a big win.

So we agree to disagree who the real snake is.  It’s all good.  If I had an athlete primed to play in the big, there is only one coach I wouldn’t allow him to play for.  Reason being, one of my biggest teachings is the - no whining, no excuses, and be humble.  Harbaugh fails all three consistently.  But to you that is just weird I guess.  No harm no foul.

So we agree to disagree who the real snake is.  It’s all good.  If I had an athlete primed to play in the big, there is only one coach I wouldn’t allow him to play for.  Reason being, one of my biggest teachings is the - no whining, no excuses, and be humble.  Harbaugh fails all three consistently.  But to you that is just weird I guess.  No harm no foul.

Not sure I follow.
Harbaugh was never one billed as having character issues. The guy grates on people and I'd bet good money he's on the autistic spectrum- but no one has ever accused him of being a snake. Meyer? There's a mountain of evidence that guy is a snake. Great football coach though.

Pretty sure Harbaugh has been a snake and a liar, too.  Ask Erik Swenson.  Also Harbaugh has been arrested multiple times.  If he coached under Urban then Urban would get flak for hiring him.

My interest here isn't in this womp-womp crap fight about the morals of Meyer v. Harbaugh v. Dantonio, just in accuracy about the Swenson thing. 

Erik was explicitly told he needed to work out in front of the staff to keep his offer. This happened the summer before he was to sign. He blew the coaches off and months later had his offer rescinded as promised. That wasn't a story of lying. It was a story of Harbaugh woefully mismanaging a kid and his expectations. Put another way, it was an honest mistake that was also unacceptable in that things like this can't be allowed to happen.

(I.E., Harbaugh made the bad mistake [a mistake of style and timing] but also told the truth when he said come work out now or risk losing your offer.)

Pretty sure Harbaugh has been a snake and a liar, too.  Ask Erik Swenson.  Also Harbaugh has been arrested multiple times.  If he coached under Urban then Urban would get flak for hiring him.

Or once. 15 years ago with a .09 OVI. From which he called a team meeting and met with administration the next day and apologized for his mistakes. Facts are hard to come by, I guess. A good lesson for Urban on personal accountability actually
Love how a Michigan / Michigan State game thread has turned into Ohio State fans whining about Jim Harbaugh whining. Don’t let your kids play for a complainer, but definitely send them to a staff that includes Meyer, Schiano, Zach Smith, and Wilson. Ohh, the skeletons. Righteous indignation!!

We all have opinions, but I have no problem calling a coach a liar if he knows a kid thinks he has a scholarship offer when he doesn't.  So I have no problem calling Harbaugh a liar for that.

I try to judge behaviors as themselves rather than judge people for their behaviors. So whereas I believe in lies, I don't have any use for blanketly calling a person a liar/smelly/failure/success. I only have use for specifically pointing out the times they lied/smelled/failed/succeeded. 

And (aside from the benefit of limiting my judginess) here is another situation where the distinction seems to matter. You're noticing  that Swenson was told that he had to do X to get Y, didn't do X (work out in front of coaches), lost Y (his scholarship), and are effectively responding that "this thing that wasn't a lie feels like the sort of crummy thing liars would do."