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Topic: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game

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FearlessF

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #196 on: October 23, 2018, 11:20:10 AM »
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1988-05-31-8801040010-story.html
BEARS` HARBAUGH IS ARRESTED ON DISORDERLY CONDUCT CHARGE
oooh, that's a huge crime
same with drunken driving with no damage or victim, imo
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #197 on: October 23, 2018, 11:24:08 AM »
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1988-05-31-8801040010-story.html
BEARS` HARBAUGH IS ARRESTED ON DISORDERLY CONDUCT CHARGE
For sure, DUI is pretty terrible. Not irredeemable, and I'm glad he's turned it around, but wreckless/dangerous. 
It'd be good if fanbases could consistently say that whether it's people on their side or the "other" side that have the DUI.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #198 on: October 23, 2018, 11:24:47 AM »
Or once. 15 years ago with a .09 OVI. From which he called a team meeting and met with administration the next day and apologized for his mistakes. Facts are hard to come by, I guess. A good lesson for Urban on personal accountability actually
Love how a Michigan / Michigan State game thread has turned into Ohio State fans whining about Jim Harbaugh whining. Don’t let your kids play for a complainer, but definitely send them to a staff that includes Meyer, Schiano, Zach Smith, and Wilson. Ohh, the skeletons. Righteous indignation!!
It was a thread about Harbaugh and Dantonio. Who turned it into an OSU thread? YOU!!
 Talk about righteous indignation LMAO and not having your facts correct !!
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MaximumSam

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #199 on: October 23, 2018, 11:26:50 AM »
I try to judge behaviors as themselves rather than judge people for their behaviors. So whereas I believe in lies, I don't have any use for blanketly calling a person a liar/smelly/failure/success. I only have use for specifically pointing out the times they lied/smelled/failed/succeeded.

And (aside from the benefit of limiting my judginess) here is another situation where the distinction seems to matter. You're noticing  that Swenson was told that he had to do X to get Y, didn't do X (work out in front of coaches), lost Y (his scholarship), and are effectively responding that "this thing that wasn't a lie feels like the sort of crummy thing liars would do."
No, I'm saying that the coaching staff, with Harbaugh's approval, never told him he was losing his offer up until they squeezed him out.  I think that is lying.  They didn't tell him he would lose his offer if he didn't show up to camp.  It is also extremely obvious that he thought he was in the class and wasn't losing his spot.  The coaching staff felt comfortable going along with that until they wanted other players.

MaximumSam

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #200 on: October 23, 2018, 11:28:06 AM »
oooh, that's a huge crime
same with drunken driving with no damage or victim, imo
It is not a huge crime - my point was that Urban would get a lot of heat for having a coach on his staff who has been arrested multiple times. 

FearlessF

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #201 on: October 23, 2018, 11:33:46 AM »
Urban only gets that heat when things come to light

until then Urban just keeps on keeping on
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #202 on: October 23, 2018, 11:34:18 AM »
No, I'm saying that the coaching staff, with Harbaugh's approval, never told him he was losing his offer up until they squeezed him out.  I think that is lying.  They didn't tell him he would lose his offer if he didn't show up to camp.  It is also extremely obvious that he thought he was in the class and wasn't losing his spot.  The coaching staff felt comfortable going along with that until they wanted other players.
Ah, then you are just mistaken. Prior to the summer camps Michigan hosted 6+ months before signing day, they told Erik he had committed to the last staff but needed to work out for the new staff or that his scholarship could be taken at any time. From there, the situation was mismanaged by both sides. Harbaugh made bad mistakes of style and timing (should have pulled the trigger a month sooner). But his original warning stood as precisely true and delivered well in advance.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 11:37:02 AM by Anonymous Coward »

MaximumSam

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #203 on: October 23, 2018, 11:36:06 AM »
Ah, then you are just mistaken. Prior to the summer camps Michigan hosted 6+ months before signing day, they told Erik he had to work out or that his scholarship could be taken at any time. From there, the situation was mismanaged by both sides. Harbaugh made bad mistakes of style and timing (should have pulled the trigger a month sooner). But his original warning stood as precisely true and delivered well in advance.
Harbaugh himself doesn't give that version of events.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/harbaugh-tells-his-side-of-story-in-erik-swenson-saga/

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #204 on: October 23, 2018, 11:41:43 AM »
I just read it. His story and mine are identical, except he shares more details. Would you benefit if I copy/paste the sections where Harbaugh retells how he asked Erik to attend multiple camps so that Erik (a Hoke commit) could be evaluated by Harbaugh's staff and Erik multiply declined?

SuperMario

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #205 on: October 23, 2018, 11:52:52 AM »
Like I said earlier, Michigan is clearly fielding a good football team again. If Harbaugh is the ONLY coach in the Big Ten you wouldn't let an athlete play for, then you have questionable judgment of character at best. 

I'm good with a guy that passes along the message of his mentor "when you guys come back 15, 20, years from now and we know what kind of men you are, what kind of husbands you’ve become, what kind of fathers you are, then we’ll now how good this football team is.”

I see Harbaugh taking his team to Rome and trip trying to shape who they are as people as much as he's trying to shape them as athletes. That's the one guy you wouldn't want someone to play for? Really? 

MaximumSam

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #206 on: October 23, 2018, 11:59:16 AM »
I just read it. His story and mine are identical, except he shares more details. Would you benefit if I copy/paste the sections where Harbaugh retells how he asked Erik to attend multiple camps so that Erik (a Hoke commit) could be evaluated by Harbaugh's staff and Erik multiply declined?
I don't think that is necessary.  You said the staff told him if he didn't come to camps he could lose his offer.  It doesn't appear they told him that until just before pulling his offer, based on Harbaugh's own words.

MaximumSam

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #207 on: October 23, 2018, 12:01:49 PM »
Like I said earlier, Michigan is clearly fielding a good football team again. If Harbaugh is the ONLY coach in the Big Ten you wouldn't let an athlete play for, then you have questionable judgment of character at best.

I'm good with a guy that passes along the message of his mentor "when you guys come back 15, 20, years from now and we know what kind of men you are, what kind of husbands you’ve become, what kind of fathers you are, then we’ll now how good this football team is.”

I see Harbaugh taking his team to Rome and trip trying to shape who they are as people as much as he's trying to shape them as athletes. That's the one guy you wouldn't want someone to play for? Really?
I don't have any major problems with him.  At the end of the day, coaches spend 99% of their energy on winning football games, and it's all this other stuff that they don't care about that gets thrown around.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #208 on: October 23, 2018, 12:10:22 PM »
I don't think that is necessary.  You said the staff told him if he didn't come to camps he could lose his offer.  It doesn't appear they told him that until just before pulling his offer, based on Harbaugh's own words.
That was your take-away? It would have struck me as unnecessarily inflammatory for him to say that explicitly to a reporter ("and as soon as he declined to come to camp for us for the second time, he put himself in the bucket where he could lose his offer, at any time, just like we said"). All that mattered is that he said it to Swenson.

Meanwhile, even without that part in this article, Swenson comes across as multiply insubordinate. Even if we trust the "pretty please" tone in the article (I seriously doubt it was that nice), being asked to pretty please camp in Ann Arbor, then pretty please camp in Indianapolis, and then have an uncharacteristically loafish fall season despite being asked that he had better pretty please "turn it on" ... Swenson was playing with fire. 
Again, the mistakes of style and timing still fall to Harbaugh, but "not being clear months earlier, in the lead-up to summer camp season" wasn't one of those mistakes. Elsewhere, Swenson made his own bookshelf of mistakes. Therefore commenceth the foofaraw.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 12:12:53 PM by Anonymous Coward »

SuperMario

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Re: #6 Michigan (5-0, 7-1) at #24 Michigan State (2-2, 4-3) Post Game
« Reply #209 on: October 23, 2018, 12:22:18 PM »
I don't have any major problems with him.  At the end of the day, coaches spend 99% of their energy on winning football games, and it's all this other stuff that they don't care about that gets thrown around.
Wasn't directed at your. My only question is was Urban under the microscope prior to everything that happened with Zack Smith? He took a lot of heat IMO because of his smugness at his press conferences. He stands up and says the PC answer, I don't think it's that hot in the kitchen. 

 

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