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Topic: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game

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847badgerfan

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #182 on: September 05, 2018, 09:25:10 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on September 05, 2018, 08:32:30 AM
not sulking. more like pissed. don't care that they'll pound Western Michigan at home at noon on BTN doing nothing but running vanilla offense.
really pissed that Jim said in his presser the other day that they won't make changes to the OL against Western Michigan. It's beyond stupid. I understand not wanting to start a RS Frosh at RT and a true frosh at LT against Notre Dame on the road at night- game one. OK. Go with the more experienced guys, break the young guys in slowly against lesser competition. Problem is those two seniors were terrible. Beyond terrible. Perfect time to make a change and work in the two young tackles against WMU and SMU these next two weeks. What's Jim say? No changes and that in his mind the OL unit improved from last year. Beyond delusional. I really don't get it. Reminds me so much of his mishandling of the QB situation last year. He kept O'Korn in there 3 weeks too long and just kept making excuses and propping up O'Korn who was just god awful. Should've yanked him for Peters WAY before he eventually did.
I really think M needs to redshirt their lineman and let them develop. Playing kids too early can a) get them hurt and b) shatter their confidence. I truly believe that maybe 1 in 10 of all OL are truly ready to play as true freshmen. Maybe.
Bredeson appears to have been one of those 10, but what if he had a redshirt year? He might be playing tackle right now, instead of guard, given a year of heavy core training and hand and footwork development.
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847badgerfan

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #183 on: September 05, 2018, 09:28:13 AM »
Quote from: SuperMario on September 05, 2018, 09:03:51 AM
Reading a thread is optional and not a requirement to belong to this forum.
We talked about scandal for a month. Isn’t it nice to talk actual football? A lot of the posts are about breakdowns or decisions on Michigan’s end and how that should change moving forward.
Hype followed by letdown is tough to let go. I’m still not over the 2016 World Series and that was 2 years ago. Being frustrated a few days after a loss and talking about it on a forum that is meant for exactly that seems reasonable, no?

YES!!
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bayareabadger

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #184 on: September 05, 2018, 09:30:44 AM »
 Will the other fact, is this game was interesting and weird. I got a look at the advanced stats, and God it was weird. 

So Michigan had an above average day moving the ball. They killed Notre Dame in that category,  which tends to be the best long-term indicator of winning. but Michigan’s drive drive finishing was  hilariously atrocious ( The offense wasn’t very explosive either). Throw in a couple turnovers, and Ashley does the vision field position and that is weirdly the difference. 
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Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #185 on: September 05, 2018, 09:35:03 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 05, 2018, 09:25:10 AM
I really think M needs to redshirt their lineman and let them develop. Playing kids too early can a) get them hurt and b) shatter their confidence. I truly believe that maybe 1 in 10 of all OL are truly ready to play as true freshmen. Maybe.
Bredeson appears to have been one of those 10, but what if he had a redshirt year? He might be playing tackle right now, instead of guard, given a year of heavy core training and hand and footwork development.
Usually I agree with you on redshirting OL players. They redshirted all of their OL guys in 2017. The only OL from the 2018 class that was in serious contention to play this year was Jalen Mayfield. But they need to do something. Jon Runyan Jr was really awful at LT. JBB was nearly as bad at RT. It's time to hit the panic button in my eyes.
As for Bredeson. I don't think he's a tackle. He's a natural at guard. Could he be an average or above average tackle? Maybe. He's an elite guard though. Probably the only guy who showed up on that OL.
RS frosh James Hudson and true frosh Jalen Mayfield have the body type/athletic ability you absolutely look for in a tackle. Those guys have NFL potential just because of their body types and athleticism. Might as well play them now and let them get their lumps in and prepare them for the future. Doesn't really make sense to me to keep playing a 6'3.5" LT with short arms in Runyan Jr and a big, unathletic, slow footed Juwan Bushell Beatty at RT. There's zero upside there. Those guys are what they are. They aren't getting any better as 5th year guys. Time to move on.
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847badgerfan

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #186 on: September 05, 2018, 10:12:14 AM »
I agree that BB is not ideally suited for tackle - I've been saying so since he was a junior in HS, but he's the best OL M has right now, and the best OL needs to be outside. I'd try it at this point. Couldn't get any worse, right?
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Temp430

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #187 on: September 05, 2018, 01:46:42 PM »
Michigan's OTs were a problem, are a problem, and will be a problem going forward.  I expected trouble but not that much.  Could it get worse?  Yes.  Putting a freshman out there is not the answer.  No, I don't have an answer.  There is no magic quick fix.  Maybe they'll improve over the next two games in time for the Big Ten opener against Nebraska but I wouldn't bet on it.  Any team with a DE with a pulse is going to be trouble.  Michigan has started recruiting more OTs.  The coaching changes made at the end of last season were the right ones. 

Its just going to take time.  Years.  So suck it up and Go Blue!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 01:52:14 PM by Temp430 »
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MaximumSam

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #188 on: September 05, 2018, 05:04:16 PM »
It's the Curse of Erik Swenson
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Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #189 on: September 05, 2018, 05:33:51 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on September 05, 2018, 05:04:16 PM
It's the Curse of Erik Swenson
Lmao. Probably. I think he’s like 3rd string at OU right now. Would’ve been a starter here this year. 
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Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #190 on: September 05, 2018, 05:40:50 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 05, 2018, 10:12:14 AM
I agree that BB is not ideally suited for tackle - I've been saying so since he was a junior in HS, but he's the best OL M has right now, and the best OL needs to be outside. I'd try it at this point. Couldn't get any worse, right?
Not sure I agree with this. Just because he’s the best OL doesn’t mean he’s a LT. He can’t be any worse than Jon Runyon Jr so you’re probably right though lol.
PFF had Runyan graded out at 47.7. One of only two fail grades they gave out to P5 offensive tackles week one. He was the lowest rated tackle in P5 football week one. 
Again, he’s 6’3.5” and has short arms. That’s a really bad combo for a LT.
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Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #191 on: September 05, 2018, 05:44:21 PM »
Quote from: Temp430 on September 05, 2018, 01:46:42 PM
Michigan's OTs were a problem, are a problem, and will be a problem going forward.  I expected trouble but not that much.  Could it get worse?  Yes.  Putting a freshman out there is not the answer.  No, I don't have an answer.  There is no magic quick fix.  Maybe they'll improve over the next two games in time for the Big Ten opener against Nebraska but I wouldn't bet on it.  Any team with a DE with a pulse is going to be trouble.  Michigan has started recruiting more OTs.  The coaching changes made at the end of last season were the right ones.  

Its just going to take time.  Years.  So suck it up and Go Blue!
Disagree. Teams start RS freshman and freshman all the time. For some reason Harbaugh seems way too conservative when it comes to starting freshman early. 
If it’s a close battle- and all indications from every insider is the battle with Runyan and Mayfield was close as was the battle with JBB and Hudson- start the freshman. If it’s reallt that close- just go ahead and start the frosh. Plan for the future let the young player grow. Makes zero sense playing some 5th yr scrub.
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #192 on: September 06, 2018, 09:41:00 AM »
There's a lot of pages here and I don't have time to read them all, but I hardly think this game is a time to panic for UM.

In context, they are 9-9 in their last 18 games and they've lost 3 or 4 in a row, and that makes it worse.  But if you look just at this season, I saw some good things.

1.  Both UM quarterbacks looked good, and so did their wide receivers.  Higdon looks pretty good as well.  I wonder what he would do behind a good O-Line.
2.  Once they shook off their off-season rust, the Michigan defense looked great. They will probably have the best defense in the B1G.  This alone will win them a lot of games.
3.  A lot of their problems seemed like they were temporary problems that will be much improved from week one to week two.

Right now I see Michigan as the 2nd best team in the east.  That's higher than I would have put them two weeks ago.

With that said:

1.  What the heck is going on with Michigan's offense?  it's so bizarre seeing a team seem to cycle between so many styles and formations.  These are college kids with limited prep time.  How are they supposed to master the world's thickest offensive playbook?

2.  Pass protection needs some work.  Michigan's offensive line isn't the most athletic, and they should probably modify their offensive philosophy to take pressure off the line.  See Joe Moorehead's offense. 
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bayareabadger

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #193 on: September 06, 2018, 01:20:36 PM »
Rosen Fulton and a former MGoBlog scheme guy had an interesting chat on the option call.

Basically, call was perfect, execution was good in a lot of spots, but QB not having the right feel killed it. (And that might be from having too much scheme)
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847badgerfan

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #194 on: September 06, 2018, 01:30:39 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on September 05, 2018, 05:33:51 PM
Lmao. Probably. I think he’s like 3rd string at OU right now. Would’ve been a starter here this year.
Played in a lot of games last season.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game
« Reply #195 on: September 08, 2018, 06:22:40 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on September 05, 2018, 09:25:10 AM
I really think M needs to redshirt their lineman and let them develop. Playing kids too early can a) get them hurt and b) shatter their confidence. I truly believe that maybe 1 in 10 of all OL are truly ready to play as true freshmen. Maybe.
Bredeson appears to have been one of those 10, but what if he had a redshirt year? He might be playing tackle right now, instead of guard, given a year of heavy core training and hand and footwork development.
That's a rich get richer/poor stay poor kind of thing. Of course those kids should be redshirted but just as it's essential to save and invest to acquire wealth, when doing so prevents you from covering food and rent, you can't. Michigan's OL issues go back a long way without covering rent. The need to myopically fast track almost every OL every year technically goes back to the lead-up to 2008 as one continuous story.
On the current rosters, I saw this week that UW's only non-RS'd OL is Furtney. 17/18 got the developmental year. With M, only Bushell-Beatty *is* RS'd. 1/16 got that year. Chaos breeds chaos. And coaches aren't built to play for next year. Not even at UW, though new coaches there do benefit from walking into a system where what's the very best for this year's OL is conveniently best for the future too.
At Michigan, redshirting those kids all these years sounds great in hindsight -- because that's correct; I mean, just imagine if Mason Cole still had this year of eligibility -- but in the moment would have been like giving up in fall camp.
I think the analogy to how rich v. poor people have to approach saving really lands here. In the face of paying rent or saving dollars and getting evicted, who would pick to be "strategically homeless?" Even if "just" for one year?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 06:35:28 AM by Anonymous Coward »
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