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Topic: #11 Michigan (0-1, 2-1) at #13 Wisconsin (1-0, 3-0) - Post Game

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Mdot21

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2019, 03:50:31 PM »
Ferguson is a very good tight end, but he hasn't hit his stride yet this season. I'm sure he'll get there because he showed flashes of stardom last season.

Taylor already has 3 receiving TD's (8 total) this year, after dedicating the offseason to being a complete back.

Cephus caught 2 TD's Saturday. One was for 36 and the other for 46.

UW threw for 400 years and ran for 199. Kinda weird. I doubt we'll see this kind of offense against great defenses like Michigan has, but I will say that this is not last season's offense (or lack thereof).
this is definitely going to be a great match-up and a huge test for both teams. Michigan is catching a huge break with this game being an 11 AM Central/Noon ET kickoff 'cause Camp Randall is HELL to play at on the road at night. Especially when you're breaking in a new offense that has all sorts of kinks to work out like Michigan is.

Taylor probably has improved as a receiver, but he's not the same type of weapon as Barkley. Barkley could line up in the slot and out wide at receiver and function at a high level there. I'm convinced the kid could even play receiver in the NFL. He's the most versatile back I've seen since Faulk.

Michigan is going to focus on stopping Taylor and they'll blitz a lot and play a lot of man coverage because that's just what Don Brown does. I feel pretty confident in Michigan's top 3 CB's holding up in coverage. Kinda scared to death about the safeties. Metellus is OK but the other safeties- yikes. Uche, Paye, Hutchinson, and Danna should be able to get some pressure on the QB. Michigan will need their DT's Jeter and Dwumfour back and healthy or they run the risk of getting run all over on inside and then getting burned in the middle of the field off the play-action pass.

847badgerfan

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2019, 03:51:10 PM »
I don't know, BaB. They go 4 deep. Cephus is the top dog. Davis is close to that and Pryor and Taylor are extremely solid - and the latter two are the starters.

You'd have to go back to 2003, with Evans, Williams and Orr, I guess? Abby and Toon were a good duo, but there wasn't much behind them. Same for Chambers and Evans.
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SFBadger96

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2019, 04:37:03 PM »
Yeah, Evans/Williams/Orr, and Evans/Chambers are the only combinations I can remember that the Badgers had two+ legitimate threats at WR. I haven't seen enough yet to see if this group can get there, too, but it's in the conversation--and dependent on whether the QB can get them the ball.

Abby/Toon benefited a great deal from the QBs who threw them the ball. Frankly, Stocco wasn't bad at distributing the ball, either.

bayareabadger

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2019, 06:24:43 PM »

I don't know, BaB. They go 4 deep. Cephus is the top dog. Davis is close to that and Pryor and Taylor are extremely solid - and the latter two are the starters.

You'd have to go back to 2003, with Evans, Williams and Orr, I guess? Abby and Toon were a good duo, but there wasn't much behind them. Same for Chambers and Evans.
Toon/Gilreath/Abby/Anderson. Your No. 4 was coming off a 480-yard year and Gilreath was about on par with Pryor.

Evans/Williams/Orr/Darren Charles. That's your No. 1 and 3 all-time receivers. 

It isn't four deep because UW didn't play four that far back Chambers/Evans/Nick Davis

In digging for this, forgot the almost-good group of Paul Hubbard, Luke Swan and Kyle Jefferson before his career derailed. Everyone hurt that season. 

Mdot21

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2019, 11:30:51 PM »
sounds like Harbaugh and his mettling might be the biggest reason this offense is going nowhere. 

This article/blog post is from a site run by a guy named Michael Spath- it’s his site and article- and he used to work for the Michigan Rivals site for like 15+ years as a writer/“insider” and he also used to host a radio show about Michigan football on Ann Arbor public radio. He’s got legitimate connections- so I doubt all of this is bs or fluff. Anywhoo- without further ado....

https://mavensports.io/michigan/football/michigan-football-insiders-there-is-a-disconnect-on-game-days-ZqQHJBnP8kGrencxBowAzA/

SFBadger96

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2019, 01:48:35 AM »
Toon/Gilreath/Abby/Anderson. Your No. 4 was coming off a 480-yard year and Gilreath was about on par with Pryor.

Evans/Williams/Orr/Darren Charles. That's your No. 1 and 3 all-time receivers.

It isn't four deep because UW didn't play four that far back Chambers/Evans/Nick Davis

In digging for this, forgot the almost-good group of Paul Hubbard, Luke Swan and Kyle Jefferson before his career derailed. Everyone hurt that season.
Gilreath was fast, but that was all. 

The 2005 Badgers, with Orr, Williams, Owen Daniels, and Brian Calhoun--and Stocco under Center--were probably the pass-catching-ist Badgers ever.

Temp430

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2019, 07:13:52 AM »
sounds like Harbaugh and his mettling might be the biggest reason this offense is going nowhere.

This article/blog post is from a site run by a guy named Michael Spath- it’s his site and article- and he used to work for the Michigan Rivals site for like 15+ years as a writer/“insider” and he also used to host a radio show about Michigan football on Ann Arbor public radio. He’s got legitimate connections- so I doubt all of this is bs or fluff. Anywhoo- without further ado....

https://mavensports.io/michigan/football/michigan-football-insiders-there-is-a-disconnect-on-game-days-ZqQHJBnP8kGrencxBowAzA/

The Sept. 9th update and first paragraph of the article you link to:

UPDATE 1:30pm Sept. 9


I've heard from a pair of impeccable sources that believe most of Michigan's issues Saturday stemmed not from play-calling but from poor execution from its quarterback, Patterson being "rattled" and the coaches feeling frustrated by a 180 reversal in how the game plan was executed in practice and then how it was not in the game.


So, it's not Harbaugh yanking Gattis' chain.
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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2019, 09:46:58 AM »
I will stir the pot a bit.

First and foremost, this is a new and fairly complex offense, so it will take a bit to get used to.  You should be looking for improvement from game to game, not an instant, explosive offense.

With that said:

Michigan's wide receivers don't impress me, and haven't impressed me in quite some time.  For all of the OMGSTARZZZ they seem to get, their wide receivers always seem...pedestrian.  Every year their "talented wide receivers" get a lot of preseason hype, only to fizzle out.  Michigan's highest ranking wide receiver is 24th in the B1G.  In 2018?  14th. 

Also, Michigan media, stating a guy's name doesn't make him good.  OMG NICO COLLINS.  These guys aren't known to anyone outside of Michigan because they are thoroughly average.  Let's try and put a little analysis into it before we just mention a name and expect that to be good enough. 

Michigan's running back situation is actually worse than their wide receiver situation.  For a helmet school, and the amount of OMGSTARZZZ players they have recruited in these two positions, the results just aren't there.

I think most fans would agree that Michigan has needed an offensive overhaul for awhile.  However, this is a lot more complex than just plugging in a new system.  They also lack talent & coaching at the skill positions.  Gattis will help with both, and I expect to see steady improvement this year. 

In conclusion, expecting a huge offensive leap is a bit much.  Look for consistent improvement and player development.  

Temp430

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2019, 10:09:19 AM »
Michigan is a bit mystifying so far this year.  The downgrade was suppose to be primarily with Michigan's defense given all the losses to the NFL.  However, on offense many of the skill players are back, more experienced, and with an improved OL.  First time in Harbaugh's tenure a starting QB returns.  So, the reasonable expectation was for an even better offense.  But so far things seem to be the opposite of pre-season expectations, defense is playing well, offense not so much. 
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Mdot21

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 12:42:40 PM »
I will stir the pot a bit.

First and foremost, this is a new and fairly complex offense, so it will take a bit to get used to.  You should be looking for improvement from game to game, not an instant, explosive offense.

With that said:

Michigan's wide receivers don't impress me, and haven't impressed me in quite some time.  For all of the OMGSTARZZZ they seem to get, their wide receivers always seem...pedestrian.  Every year their "talented wide receivers" get a lot of preseason hype, only to fizzle out.  Michigan's highest ranking wide receiver is 24th in the B1G.  In 2018?  14th. 

Also, Michigan media, stating a guy's name doesn't make him good.  OMG NICO COLLINS.  These guys aren't known to anyone outside of Michigan because they are thoroughly average.  Let's try and put a little analysis into it before we just mention a name and expect that to be good enough.

Michigan's running back situation is actually worse than their wide receiver situation.  For a helmet school, and the amount of OMGSTARZZZ players they have recruited in these two positions, the results just aren't there.

I think most fans would agree that Michigan has needed an offensive overhaul for awhile.  However, this is a lot more complex than just plugging in a new system.  They also lack talent & coaching at the skill positions.  Gattis will help with both, and I expect to see steady improvement this year. 

In conclusion, expecting a huge offensive leap is a bit much.  Look for consistent improvement and player development. 
Lolwut?

Michigan’s receivers are the best in the conference pal. I think you need to watch more closely.

Nico and Tarik were wide open deep first couple games this year. Pretty much all game long. Shea missed both of them a lot. Even the long TD he hit to Tarik last week the ball was late af and Tarik had to come back to the ball. Ronnie Bell was wide open last week deep by 4 yards and Shea sailed the ball. Throw that one in stride that 6. That same game Nico was WIDE open in the back of the end zone by 3 yards and what does Shea Patterson do- throws the ball out of the back of the end zone into the stands. These WRs don’t suck. Their QB sucks right now.

You are way off here bud. Tarik Black, Nico Collins, and DPJ are all NFL draft picks at WR.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 12:48:43 PM by Mdot21 »

Mdot21

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2019, 12:46:04 PM »
Michigan is a bit mystifying so far this year.  The downgrade was suppose to be primarily with Michigan's defense given all the losses to the NFL.  However, on offense many of the skill players are back, more experienced, and with an improved OL.  First time in Harbaugh's tenure a starting QB returns.  So, the reasonable expectation was for an even better offense.  But so far things seem to be the opposite of pre-season expectations, defense is playing well, offense not so much.
Through 2 games the OL hasn’t improved, in case you haven’t noticed. Ryan Hayes and Jalen Mayfield are RS Freshman at the tackles and both have played like freshman.

Oh yeah, Shea has also sucked at QB. He’s missed so many big throws, put the ball on the ground, and he’s been TERRIBLE in the read option game. He’s given it every single time when he’s had opportunities to pull it and take off running for big gains with nothing but huge holes on the edges. Kid is sadly becoming trash like Wilton before him. 

I see an OL that has struggled with two new freshman starting at the tackles and ANOTHER SENIOR QB that is regressing. That’s what I see.

MrNubbz

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2019, 12:57:16 PM »
Lolwut?

Michigan’s receivers are the best in the conference pal. I think you need to watch more closely.

You are way off here bud. Tarik Black, Nico Collins, and DPJ are all NFL draft picks at WR.

Potentially you're right.Collins has been the most consistent and hangs onto the rock.Unfortunately Black got hurt practically out of the gate the last two seasons but looked very good in limited duty.DPJ has looked good in return duty needs to break out as a WR but is under wraps presently.With Zach Gentry gone these 3 should get plenty of opportunities
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Mdot21

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2019, 01:03:23 PM »
Potentially you're right.Collins has been the most consistent and hangs onto the rock.Unfortunately Black got hurt practically out of the gate the last two seasons but looked very good in limited duty.DPJ has looked good in return duty needs to break out as a WR but is under wraps presently
DPJ had 8 receiving TD's on only like 45 catches and he averaged just about 15 YPC last year. Kid is a freakish athlete- just hasn't been used properly. Urban said on Fox pre-game show he thinks DPJ is a legitiamte top 10 overall NFL draft pick and one of the best athletes in CFB- but he just hasn't had the opportunities in Michigan's offense. Urban said that he drove through a snow storm to try and land the kid.

Black has been hurt first two years- yes. He is the most polished WR of that bunch imo. DPJ the most talented. Collins has the most size, has been the healthiest and has been an animal when it comes to the jump ball. Haven't seen a WR at Michigan that good at snagging the jump ball since Braylon.

The QB play at Michigan has sucked. Let's just call it what it is. For all the hype of Jim being "the QB whisperer" he's more like a QB killer. I think the guy just got lucky with Andrew Luck to be honest. Dumb blind luck. Kapernick was a gimmick running QB who sucked at throwing the ball. He kinda just came along at the right time and took the NFL by storm. They weren't ready for that style of offense and a guy was 6'3 and could run like that. As far as throwing the football- Kapernick was trash. Big part of the reason why he doesn't have a job right now. People can say it's cause of the kneeling and whatever- but the dude was always ass as a passer. I think that has as much to do with him not having a job as anything. He was barely better than Tebow as a passer.

MaximumSam

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Re: #10 Michigan (2-0, 0-0) @ #14 Wisconsin (2-0, 0-0) - 2019/09/21
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2019, 01:16:35 PM »
BTW, this by Gattis struck me as misguided.

"“He’s been banged up the past two weeks with oblique,” Gattis said. “Something that he’s struggled with since the first week of Middle Tennessee. That had no effect – I hope it had no effect on his decision-making from that standpoint. Like I said, every read run from the quarterback standpoint isn’t always going to be declared a pull. It’s numbers, angles, how tight is the defender, how wide is the defender? Is it too off the backside edge? There’s a lot of things that go into play there."

I dunno, that seems awfully complicated for a read the QB is supposed to make in a fraction of a second.

 

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