Don't want the Wisconsin season thread polluted with Michigan talkYou sure know how to get a friendly conversation started
Premature thread. You’re a week too early pal.Neither team plays this week. Also, look at the thread title. :)
It will be interesting to see what Cephus & Co. can do with that defense. This is probably the deepest and most talented WR corps ever assembled in Madison.Michigan has 2 excellent CB's. Hill & Thomas are future NFL draft picks. I would think Hill projects as a 2nd-4th rd pick- like Jourdan Lewis before him- size is his only real limitation. Thomas- he could wind up being a 1st rd pick. He's that talented athletically and he's basically right at a legit 6ft whereas Hill might be 5'10 and change. Not only is Thomas taller than Hill, but he's longer and faster and more athletic. Looks like they just might have a 3rd NFL draft pick at CB in Vincent Gray. The RS Frosh Vincent Gray has been flat out excellent so far. He's 6'2+ and lanky, can cover ground in a hurry and he's physical and really gets after it in run support. It's super early- but he looks excellent so far. His future looks very, very bright.
If Taylor can get good yardage on the ground, Coan may have the necessary time off play-action to find those guys downfield.
It will be interesting to see what Cephus & Co. can do with that defense. This is probably the deepest and most talented WR corps ever assembled in Madison.I just refuse to believe that top part until later on. It’s a nice group, but I think the overall talent is a tad overstated.
If Taylor can get good yardage on the ground, Coan may have the necessary time off play-action to find those guys downfield.
Ferguson is a very good tight end, but he hasn't hit his stride yet this season. I'm sure he'll get there because he showed flashes of stardom last season.this is definitely going to be a great match-up and a huge test for both teams. Michigan is catching a huge break with this game being an 11 AM Central/Noon ET kickoff 'cause Camp Randall is HELL to play at on the road at night. Especially when you're breaking in a new offense that has all sorts of kinks to work out like Michigan is.
Taylor already has 3 receiving TD's (8 total) this year, after dedicating the offseason to being a complete back.
Cephus caught 2 TD's Saturday. One was for 36 and the other for 46.
UW threw for 400 years and ran for 199. Kinda weird. I doubt we'll see this kind of offense against great defenses like Michigan has, but I will say that this is not last season's offense (or lack thereof).
I don't know, BaB. They go 4 deep. Cephus is the top dog. Davis is close to that and Pryor and Taylor are extremely solid - and the latter two are the starters.Toon/Gilreath/Abby/Anderson. Your No. 4 was coming off a 480-yard year and Gilreath was about on par with Pryor.
You'd have to go back to 2003, with Evans, Williams and Orr, I guess? Abby and Toon were a good duo, but there wasn't much behind them. Same for Chambers and Evans.
Toon/Gilreath/Abby/Anderson. Your No. 4 was coming off a 480-yard year and Gilreath was about on par with Pryor.Gilreath was fast, but that was all.
Evans/Williams/Orr/Darren Charles. That's your No. 1 and 3 all-time receivers.
It isn't four deep because UW didn't play four that far back Chambers/Evans/Nick Davis
In digging for this, forgot the almost-good group of Paul Hubbard, Luke Swan and Kyle Jefferson before his career derailed. Everyone hurt that season.
sounds like Harbaugh and his mettling might be the biggest reason this offense is going nowhere.
This article/blog post is from a site run by a guy named Michael Spath- it’s his site and article- and he used to work for the Michigan Rivals site for like 15+ years as a writer/“insider” and he also used to host a radio show about Michigan football on Ann Arbor public radio. He’s got legitimate connections- so I doubt all of this is bs or fluff. Anywhoo- without further ado....
https://mavensports.io/michigan/football/michigan-football-insiders-there-is-a-disconnect-on-game-days-ZqQHJBnP8kGrencxBowAzA/
I will stir the pot a bit.Lolwut?
First and foremost, this is a new and fairly complex offense, so it will take a bit to get used to. You should be looking for improvement from game to game, not an instant, explosive offense.
With that said:
Michigan's wide receivers don't impress me, and haven't impressed me in quite some time. For all of the OMGSTARZZZ they seem to get, their wide receivers always seem...pedestrian. Every year their "talented wide receivers" get a lot of preseason hype, only to fizzle out. Michigan's highest ranking wide receiver is 24th in the B1G. In 2018? 14th.
Also, Michigan media, stating a guy's name doesn't make him good. OMG NICO COLLINS. These guys aren't known to anyone outside of Michigan because they are thoroughly average. Let's try and put a little analysis into it before we just mention a name and expect that to be good enough.
Michigan's running back situation is actually worse than their wide receiver situation. For a helmet school, and the amount of OMGSTARZZZ players they have recruited in these two positions, the results just aren't there.
I think most fans would agree that Michigan has needed an offensive overhaul for awhile. However, this is a lot more complex than just plugging in a new system. They also lack talent & coaching at the skill positions. Gattis will help with both, and I expect to see steady improvement this year.
In conclusion, expecting a huge offensive leap is a bit much. Look for consistent improvement and player development.
Michigan is a bit mystifying so far this year. The downgrade was suppose to be primarily with Michigan's defense given all the losses to the NFL. However, on offense many of the skill players are back, more experienced, and with an improved OL. First time in Harbaugh's tenure a starting QB returns. So, the reasonable expectation was for an even better offense. But so far things seem to be the opposite of pre-season expectations, defense is playing well, offense not so much.Through 2 games the OL hasn’t improved, in case you haven’t noticed. Ryan Hayes and Jalen Mayfield are RS Freshman at the tackles and both have played like freshman.
Lolwut?Potentially you're right.Collins has been the most consistent and hangs onto the rock.Unfortunately Black got hurt practically out of the gate the last two seasons but looked very good in limited duty.DPJ has looked good in return duty needs to break out as a WR but is under wraps presently.With Zach Gentry gone these 3 should get plenty of opportunities
Michigan’s receivers are the best in the conference pal. I think you need to watch more closely.
You are way off here bud. Tarik Black, Nico Collins, and DPJ are all NFL draft picks at WR.
Potentially you're right.Collins has been the most consistent and hangs onto the rock.Unfortunately Black got hurt practically out of the gate the last two seasons but looked very good in limited duty.DPJ has looked good in return duty needs to break out as a WR but is under wraps presentlyDPJ had 8 receiving TD's on only like 45 catches and he averaged just about 15 YPC last year. Kid is a freakish athlete- just hasn't been used properly. Urban said on Fox pre-game show he thinks DPJ is a legitiamte top 10 overall NFL draft pick and one of the best athletes in CFB- but he just hasn't had the opportunities in Michigan's offense. Urban said that he drove through a snow storm to try and land the kid.
BTW, this by Gattis (https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/09/michigan-football-josh-gattis-offense-shea-patterson-injury-read-option/)struck me as misguided.this is poor coaching then if Shea is hurt. If the kid is injured- then should be on the bench and McCaffrey should be playing. McCaffrey is a vastly superior runner to Shea anyway- and he makes better reads in the run game. I'm very close to just saying F it and jumping off the Shea bandwagon. I'm getting to the point where I'd like to see McCaffrey as the starter.
"“He’s been banged up the past two weeks with oblique,” Gattis said. “Something that he’s struggled with since the first week of Middle Tennessee. That had no effect – I hope it had no effect on his decision-making from that standpoint. Like I said, every read run from the quarterback standpoint isn’t always going to be declared a pull. It’s numbers, angles, how tight is the defender, how wide is the defender? Is it too off the backside edge? There’s a lot of things that go into play there."
I dunno, that seems awfully complicated for a read the QB is supposed to make in a fraction of a second.
DPJ had 8 receiving TD's on only like 45 catches and he averaged just about 15 YPC last year. Kid is a freakish athlete- just hasn't been used properly.Perhaps but both Gentry and Collins had over 16 YPC in the same offense,DPJ had 13 YPC but a nice 8 TDs.Again with Gentry gone he'll get his chances.Of Ms 3 WR Black has to-has to stay healthy this season.Otherwise the NFL will fade him
this is poor coaching then if Shea is hurt. If the kid is injured- then should be on the bench and McCaffrey should be playing. McCaffrey is a vastly superior runner to Shea anyway- and he makes better reads in the run game.Correct SP should sit until healthy if that is the case,but who knows or how bad?Two weeks will be telling
Perhaps but both Gentry and Collins had over 16 YPC in the same offense,DPJ had 13 YPC but a nice 8 TDs.Again with Gentry gone he'll get his chancesThe ball should be going less to the TE's and more to the WR's when you've got WR's this good. Problem with DPJ and his numbers this year will be his health though. He's already missed the first two games, might miss the 3rd vs Wisconsin. Hopefully he's back, but nothing has been announced yet.
Does JH have a position coach there or is he it?Not clear. Ben McDaniels was the interim WR for the bowl game but is now the QB coach. I believe I heard or read Gattis was coaching WRs.
The fumbles, penalties, and missed assignments by Michigan’s offense are real. But the “turtle” play calling may have been intended to protect Patterson and give the D some rest. There may be some sandbagging going on too. I’m sure they had no intension of doing the full Monty against Army for Chryst.It's one thing not to show Chryst the playbook, it's another to not score in the 4th quarter of a tie game, and to need double overtime to beat a service academy--a good one, no doubt, but still a service academy...at home. If the coaching staff thought it was worth the risk, they would have called the plays in the 4th quarter. That they didn't tells me that they weren't comfortable with the range of outcomes in that game, having nothing to do with showing anything to Wisconsin for a game two weeks later.
I don't see it, but if Michigan is truly that talented, across the board, then coaching is failing them.Looked a lot more talented than Wisconsin last season. Hehe.
Looked a lot more talented than Wisconsin last season. Hehe.I can't remember a season when Michigan wasn't more talented than Wisconsin. But I do remember three Wisconsin Big Ten Championships this decade, and five appearances in the conference Championship game. I concede that I'm feeling like the next conference championship is a little overdue.
I can't remember a season when Michigan wasn't more talented than Wisconsin. But I do remember three Wisconsin Big Ten Championships this decade, and five appearances in the conference Championship game. I concede that I'm feeling like the next conference championship is a little overdue.M also had a Peach, and lost. UW also had a Cotton, and won.
Oh, and I remember that Chryst was hired the same year as Harbaugh (2015), and has a better winning percentage overall and in the Big Ten. And I remember that Chryst and Harbaugh each coached their teams to a single major bowl game since 2015, each appearing in the Orange Bowl, which Wisconsin won, but Michigan lost.
Alas, I also remember that Chryst's Badgers are 1-3 vs. Harbaugh's Michigan. That bugs me. And I hope it improves on the 20th.
I also remember that Chryst's Badgers are 1-3 vs. Harbaugh's Michigan. That bugs me. And I hope it improves on the 20th.Gonna have to wait for the 21st
Lolwut?Eeesh. That's a lot of kool aid you've been drinking. I agree that this is perhaps the best WR unit Michigan has fielded since Braylon Edwards. Then again, Michigan hasn't had good wide receivers in awhile. I get the excitement, but I hear how amazing the Michigan receivers are every year, and every year they are thoroughly average.
Michigan’s receivers are the best in the conference pal. I think you need to watch more closely.
Nico and Tarik were wide open deep first couple games this year. Pretty much all game long. Shea missed both of them a lot. Even the long TD he hit to Tarik last week the ball was late af and Tarik had to come back to the ball. Ronnie Bell was wide open last week deep by 4 yards and Shea sailed the ball. Throw that one in stride that 6. That same game Nico was WIDE open in the back of the end zone by 3 yards and what does Shea Patterson do- throws the ball out of the back of the end zone into the stands. These WRs don’t suck. Their QB sucks right now.
You are way off here bud. Tarik Black, Nico Collins, and DPJ are all NFL draft picks at WR.
I don't see it, but if Michigan is truly that talented, across the board, then coaching is failing them.I don't see it either. Wisconsin, Penn State, and Michigan all have about the same number of players in the NFL. That's probably a better indicator than anything.
The fumbles, penalties, and missed assignments by Michigan’s offense are real. But the “turtle” play calling may have been intended to protect Patterson and give the D some rest. There may be some sandbagging going on too. I’m sure they had no intension of doing the full Monty against Army for Chryst.This idea remains one of profound hope.
This idea remains one of profound hope.You talked about this a lot in the preseason, and I nodded my head in agreement. But isn't there a call for distinction here?
Each early season, some teams see bad offense and say "no, this is because we're trying to not be good just yet." It is most often not reflected in reality.
UM fans have high expectations because they have the 3rd highest blue chip ratio in the B1G.I don't believe that rank is correct. I believe they are presently tied at #2 with PSU in BCR and are set to retake #2 alone next year when the anomalous 2015 transition class leaves BCR consideration.
What about when Patterson was good last year?[For clarity, were those Big Ten-only numbers (somewhat SOS-adjusted) or were they BigTen+OOC?]
Michigan was 8th in the league in receptions, 4th in the league in Percentage, 9th in yards per game. 5th in average reception yards.
Seriously, I don't at all doubt that Michigan always has more talent than Wisconsin. That's why it's such a big deal that Michigan's results don't appear to be any better than the Badgers', and in several ways are worse.I'd say that, for the Chryst and Harbaugh years (2015 to 2018), Michigan made a large jump from the dumpster (2008 to 2014) and surpassed Wisconsin as a program. Whether that change will last is more open to debate than whether the change happened in the first place. To an extent, the next game, but mostly the upcoming years will let us know whether or not they change back.
BTW, this by Gattis (https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/09/michigan-football-josh-gattis-offense-shea-patterson-injury-read-option/)struck me as misguided.If true, I agree. But to me it comes off as standard covering for a QB getting bad press.
"“He’s been banged up the past two weeks with oblique,” Gattis said. “Something that he’s struggled with since the first week of Middle Tennessee. That had no effect – I hope it had no effect on his decision-making from that standpoint. Like I said, every read run from the quarterback standpoint isn’t always going to be declared a pull. It’s numbers, angles, how tight is the defender, how wide is the defender? Is it too off the backside edge? There’s a lot of things that go into play there."
I dunno, that seems awfully complicated for a read the QB is supposed to make in a fraction of a second.
The Sept. 9th update and first paragraph of the article you link to:This is a vague post ("impeccable sources" is a bit squirrelly), but I agree with the sentiment. The problem, as I see it, is that we don't know whether Shea can get healthy fast, let alone his level of play once healed. That is our biggest unknown. Dwumfour and Runyan are concern-1B. DPJ is the concern after that.
UPDATE 1:30pm Sept. 9
I've heard from a pair of impeccable sources that believe most of Michigan's issues Saturday stemmed not from play-calling but from poor execution from its quarterback, Patterson being "rattled" and the coaches feeling frustrated by a 180 reversal in how the game plan was executed in practice and then how it was not in the game.
So, it's not Harbaugh yanking Gattis' chain.
The ball should be going less to the TE's and more to the WR's when you've got WR's this good. Problem with DPJ and his numbers this year will be his health though. He's already missed the first two games, might miss the 3rd vs Wisconsin. Hopefully he's back, but nothing has been announced yet.They should start the freshman QB Cade McNamara having had the least of Harbaugh’s ruinous coaching.
Plus, Shea has just kinda been ass. He's missed a lot of open guys down the field already in just the first two games of the season. Throws that he has to make. Throws that elite QB's would make. I think the poor kid is getting Harbaugh'd. ANOTHER QB that has just regressed the more time he spends with Harbaugh. It's insane.
I don't believe that rank is correct. I believe they are presently tied at #2 with PSU in BCR and are set to retake #2 alone next year when the anomalous 2015 transition class leaves BCR consideration.https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/
None of this means that UW will win. They just won't lose 38-13.And they're at CR,Dixon's gone also I believe
And they're at CR,Dixon's gone also I believeYes, he was the lone starter, and he played hurt for much the season. He did not play against Michigan.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sbnation.com%2Fimported_assets%2F1863365%2FKool_Aid_blue.jpg&hash=db977545b1a15bfa3314b4ab6d75ce67)(advantage Harbaugh)
https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/https://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2019/08/08/bud-elliotts-2019-blue-chip-ratio/
(https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/)
Not that I am a big believer in this stuff.
Michigan's defense held Army's offense to it's lowest yards per play average in 4 years. So there's that. Not sure Army ever even scores if not for all the turnovers by Michigan's offense.It's not meaningless, but what it means is that Michigan was great at uniquely defending Army's triple option. Which doesn't predict anything about the season going forward.
I have a feeling this game will be an ugly defensive brawl. First one to 17 wins.
(advantage Harbaugh)He always has the advantage because he coaches at Michigan. He also does less with more than any coach in the conference.
the big kid from Lincoln is healthy?
UW will have a DL play with full depth (minus 2 starters last year, and subs were young - one was an OL playing DE) and experience.
None of this means that UW will win. They just won't lose 38-13.
He always has the advantage because he coaches at Michigan. He also does more with less than any coach in the conference.The joke is that he's blue. But yeah Harbaugh has the advantage over Chryst for a real reason, because when you control for the difference in schedule strength (looking at S&P+, common opponents, and H2H as detailed on the last page), Harbaugh has clearly gotten Michigan to perform at the higher level (2015-2018).
He always has the advantage because he coaches at Michigan. He also does more with less than any coach in the conference.Dantonio has a great argument for doing more with less.
I love this new addition to "the Speech." Except leave out the 0-4 vs. Ohio State and 2-2 vs. Michigan State--I don't think the fans will like those.
S&P+ (overall team score, national rank):
(https://i.imgur.com/WRziRdo.png) (advantage Harbaugh)
Head to head:
- Harbaugh 2, Chryst 1 (advantage Harbaugh)
Versus the East, excluding H2H:
- Harbaugh 17-7 (0.708), Chryst 6-4 (0.600) (advantage Harbaugh)
Versus the West, excluding H2H:
- Harbaugh 6-1 (0.857), Chryst 20-4 (0.833) (advantage Harbaugh)
Common Big Ten opponents:
Versus Illinois:
- Harbaugh 1-0 (1.000), Chryst 4-0 (1.000) (neither's advantage)
Versus Indiana:
- Harbaugh 4-0 (1.000), Chryst 1-0 (1.000) (neither's advantage)
Versus Iowa:
- Harbaugh 0-1 (0.000), Chryst 3-1 (0.750) (advantage Chryst)
Versus Maryland:
- Harbaugh 4-0 (1.000), Chryst 2-0 (1.000) (neither's advantage)
Versus Michigan State:
- Harbaugh 2-2 (0.500), Chryst 1-0 (1.000) (advantage Chryst)
Versus Minnesota:
- Harbaugh 2-0 (1.000), Chryst 3-1 (0.750) (advantage Harbaugh)
Versus Nebraska:
- Harbaugh 1-0 (1.000), Chryst 4-0 (1.000) (neither's advantage)
Versus Northwestern:
- Harbaugh 2-0 (1.000), Chryst 2-2 (0.500) (advantage Harbaugh)
Versus Ohio State:
- Harbaugh 0-4 (0.000), Chryst 0-2 (0.000) (neither's advantage)
Versus Penn State:
- Harbaugh 3-1 (0.750), Chryst 0-2 (0.000) (advantage Harbaugh)
Versus Purdue:
- Harbaugh 1-0 (1.000), Chryst 4-0 (1.000) (neither's advantage)
Versus Rutger:
- Harbaugh 4-0 (1.000), Chryst 2-0 (1.000) (neither's advantage)
Common OOC opponents:
Michigan and Wisconsin did have BYU in common (advantage Harbaugh)
[An admission about using common opponents. Aggregating 2015-2018 means that these common opponents are sometimes shared on different years. Nevertheless, that just means it falls short of perfect. It's still a reasonable way to compare asymmetric schedule strength]
I love this new addition to "the Speech." Except leave out the 0-4 vs. Ohio State and 2-2 vs. Michigan State--I don't think the fans will like those.Heh. For next week, I'd say "a stronger program" than Wisconsin from 2015-2018 is something worth something. After 2008-2014 for both schools, the long term arrows are more flattering to Michigan.
Michigan's gotta have something when it doesn't have conference championships...
:)
the big kid from Lincoln is healthy?He missed the last game and a true freshman from Janesville, WI started in his place.
Dantonio has a great argument for doing more with less.Yes, I meant to type "less with more" and I fixed it.
I’d argue that Harbs does less with more than any coach in the conference. And I’d argue that his teams have basically quit on him come Bowl season.
I love this new addition to "the Speech." Except leave out the 0-4 vs. Ohio State and 2-2 vs. Michigan State--I don't think the fans will like those.His record vs Ohio State is absolutely unacceptable, but if not for an act of god he’s 3-1 v MSU. That was to this day the flukiest ending I’ve ever seen in a football game. They had that thing won and in the bag and then......
Michigan's gotta have something when it doesn't have conference championships...
:)
The bowl record pisses me off more. It makes the conference look bad.Well those bowls are basically meaningless exhibitions and he’s had lots of the best players on his teams sit out those games and the players that played in them pretty much quit in the games.
Well those bowls are basically meaningless exhibitions and he’s had lots of the best players on his teams sit out those games and the players that played in them pretty much quit in the games.If I had the uniform on and was surrounded by my teammates, you can bet your ass I'd care. Play to win for your team, period.
2016 and 2018 immediately come to mind. Had top guys sit out the game both times and it’s hard for guys to get up and get excited when they were 10-1 both times playing Ohio State for a playoff spot only to get donkey punched in the dick and come up short. I doubt half the team even gave a shit about playing in the bowl game after that. I wouldn’t care. Would you?
The bowl record pisses me off more. It makes the conference look bad.I don't think the non-CoFoPO bowls matter as much as they used to. The best players sitting out now is a sign of that. A non-CoFoPO bowl win/loss counts less than a regular season win/loss. At least for teams in contention for the conference championship, that's true. Perception matters, which is a score for bowl wins having nonzero worth. And adding another integer to the W column is better than the opposite. But that's where it ends. We might even argue it's significantly more important to beat a MAC team in September OOC than to win a NYD bowl, but there's no debate that it's more important to beat Indiana than win on NYD.
If I had the uniform on and was surrounded by my teammates, you can bet your ass I'd care. Play to win for your team, period.I don’t know. That’s easy to say on a message board. We’re not the young guys playing the game and having to deal with the emotions and disappointment and pain. Losing in double OT on a 4th and inches play- that’s devastating. Then getting beat down as the favorite and getting 60 hung on you? That’s demoralizing. Both times they were 10-1 and a W would have put them right in the playoff hunt. Both times they fell flat on their faces. Hard for a team to recover imo. And then to have top guys just check out and get ready for the NFL- makes others just start to check out.
Well, your coach isn't 4-0 in bowls, either. :-)#MeeToooo
(you have to know I'm just having fun with this...)
Words coming out that TE Zander Neuville has hurt is knee again and is now done with football.I’m sad for his football career, happy he’ll have a bright real career ahead.
I don't think a 7th year is possible. On to Med School, Zander.
https://blutarsky.wordpress.com/2019/08/08/bud-elliotts-2019-blue-chip-ratio/If you will note from my link, it is adjusted for transfers, etc. So it reflects the actual roster.
https://www.bannersociety.com/pages/blue-chip-ratio-2019
The discrepancy is about how it's compiled, and whether Bud Elliott compiles it that way.
And I think this has a bigger influence in the preparation for the bowl game than it does in the game itself, but that the preparation is the bigger deal.That’s actually why I don’t mind guys that are future 1st rd picks like Peppers, Bush, and Gary sitting out. It gives opportunities for younger guys to go out there and gain valuable experience.
If you will note from my link, it is adjusted for transfers, etc. So it reflects the actual roster.True, and you might think that's a better metric, but I don't believe it's the one that Bud Elliot correlated with the national championship ingroup. So it isn't technically BCR.
Probably another reason why starzzzz don't mean anything, tbh.
Transfers, injuries, kids that don't qualify, kids that leave early for the NFL -- OMG STARRZZZ doesn't take that into account.
And also- hard to blame a kid sitting on a lottery ticket for skipping a bowl game.Pretty much discussed that ad nauseam.Before JB ripped his knee up there was already a long list of similiar cases.Blue chippers in their last Bowl Game,getting hurt on the Field & Draft Day.Jaylon Smith was another,the Networks/Coaches/Advertisemnets are raking it in,kid has to look out for his interests
Pretty much discussed that ad nauseam.Before JB ripped his knee up there was already a long list of similiar cases.Blue chippers in their last Bowl Game,getting hurt on the Field & Draft Day.Jaylon Smith was another,the Networks/Coaches/Advertisemnets are raking it in,kid has to look out for his interestsForgot about him. He was a lock as a top 5 pick and his knee gets destroyed in the bowl game vs OSU and he falls to the 2nd or 3rd. Literally cost him and his family millions. Thankfully he’s recovered in Dallas and he’s an excellent player. Still have to wonder how great he could’ve been without that injury.
True, and you might think that's a better metric, but I don't believe it's the one that Bud Elliot correlated with the national championship ingroup. So it isn't technically BCR.Bottom line, Penn state has more talent on their roster than Michigan if you buy into OMGSTARZZZ.
Bottom line, Penn state has more talent on their roster than Michigan if you buy into OMGSTARZZZ.This back and forth began on the technicality that Michigan is less than second in Big Ten BCR. I just chimed in to specify that isn't true.
One thing I forgot to mention --
Penn State is the second youngest team in the B1G, and one of the 10 youngest in the country. Even if you believed in STARZZZ, I would think a veteran team would have quite a few advantages over younger team.
Which leads me to my greater point -- it is all bunk anyway.
But yeah, to get a kid into Madison from California (or anywhere West of the Rockies) for an 11AM is not happening, unless the kid's team has an idle week.or if the Wisconsin Assembley passes a bill to allow players likeness compensation
Don't want to go there in this thread, please.FF put me up to it I couldn't possibly conjure up something that crass
speaking of recruiting, regarding Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State..........This is a fair point. But I'm not sure Michigan cares (not this game, obviously, but when it affects M home games). It's never come up as a frustration in coach quotes (or even blogger posts), is what I mean. I didn't even know other schools might have this recruiting concern until this thread.
these 3 teams and "the" Ohio State will obviously have more "BIG" games that Fox would like to broadcast at 11am
the early time slot makes it very difficult to get high school recruits on campus in time for pre-game and kick-off.
This is a VERY big deal for Nebraska. Maybe not such a big deal for the top recruiting teams.
thoughts?
Frost commented at his press conference that the night game really helps. It's obviously true for UNL.
This back and forth began on the technicality that Michigan is less than second in Big Ten BCR. I just chimed in to specify that isn't true.To be frank, Penn State's transfer losses were mostly due to kids being passed on the depth chart. Many of those guys are starting in other programs now. I think that is a better indicator of the talent level than recruiting STARZZ.
I am surprised/impressed by the "active roster" link you provided, though. Especially given all of PSU's transfer portal losses. Michigan must be dragged down by the 2015 (Harbaugh "just hired") class when attrition due to the 2014 season and Hoke's firing caused the class to halve by mid-December and Harbaugh couldn't begin recruiting until mid-January. Since then, Michigan has finished ranked 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 1st in Big Ten recruiting as compared to 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd for PSU.
Also, come on man, only the kids on your roster matter.I tentatively agree**, but that's not our discussion. I'm just trying to dispassionately clarify the definition of the "BCR," which was the word choice you made (and accidentally misapplied).
To be frank, Penn State's transfer losses were mostly due to kids being passed on the depth chart. Many of those guys are starting in other programs now. I think that is a better indicator of the talent level than recruiting STARZZ.
Also, come on man, only the kids on your roster matter. Michigan signed 26 kids in 2019, 22 in 2018, 30 in 2017, and 26 in 2016. I don't even know how that's possible, but I can only assume a bunch of kids didn't qualify or left for various other reasons. Over that same time period, Penn State signed 23, 23, 21, and 20. That means Michigan has had 19 additional kids, or practically an entire extra recruiting class!
And I don't really care about recruiting rankings, so telling me how some vague entity mathematically calculated the future worth of a group of high school football players doesn't carry much weight.
The bottom line is that the talent level between Wisconsin / UM/ Iowa / Penn State is pretty darn close.
Michigan has had a lot of transfers. Some athletes were not admitted to the U after signing their LOI. There have also been several early departures for the NFL, and at least one medical retirement (Newsome) due to a career ending injury. So, Michigan is following the NCAA's rules. If you want to know more do the research. That would be better than a fact deficient underhanded accusation.There was no underhanded accusation. I’m simply giving another reason why Michigan’s recruiting rankings are higher. More players is a higher ranking. However, you can only play 11 at a time.
Wisconsin opens as three point favorite over Michigan.I actually like this. Michigan seems to operate better when they don't have expectations.
I'm looking forward to seeing a depth chart today, at least from UW. Does Harbaugh still hold back on this stuff?I wouldn't worry about JH holding back.Gattis maybe,Don Brown perhaps but not JH
Don Brown is on record stating he "can't wait" to play Wisconsin.Umm, so what? What's the big deal here?
Chryst will always look for passing opportunities; that's how his offense is supposed to work (if he has a QB he trusts). But I don't expect him to become more aggressive in this game out of concern for Michigan's big play threat. If anything, I would expect more conservative.Hope you’re wrong about that but you may be right. I think a conservative game plan gets them beat pretty soundly
I don't expect Chryst to vary from the script early. Wisconsin is always at a disadvantage to teams like Michigan in the WR vs. CB matchups. You don't counter that by going deep when you have the ball; you counter that by controlling the ball and the clock. Chryst is much more likely to want to keep the total number of possessions low and control field position (one of Michigan's problems against Army was typical of playing the triple option service academies--they only had a handful of possessions per half). He will likely be happy to trade punts and clock to prevent turnovers and opportunities for Michigan big plays.is this what you expect to happen or what you would advise Chryst and Harbaugh to do?
The offense/defense match-up when the Badgers have the ball looks to me like a typical smash-mouth Big Ten game, one you could have seen anytime since the King showed up in Madison. The Badgers will play to their strength, and look for play action once a little bit of running game is established. If the Badgers score more than 20, I really like their chances.
Michigan's offense looks like a work in progress, and with their turnover issues to date, the Badgers will want to keep the play in front of them and will trade yards and clock to limit big plays, while also looking for the Michigan mistakes. But, as always, Michigan will have some guys who can score in a hurry through the Badgers defense.
If the Badgers score in the teens, I see a nail biter. If they can't crack 10, two big plays will beat them.
One problem for Wisconsin is they currently don't really trust their kicker. I don't know how Michigan's is, but trading field goals doesn't feel like a great recipe for the Badgers.
On the turnover front, J.T. has had fumble problems, so that's a bit of a concern, but I bet he's been working on it in the off season. If there is a 4-1 turnover ration (Michigan has fumbled four times in teach of its two games; the Badgers once each), I like the Badgers' chances.
That assumes that the Badger defense can't hold up to Michigan. That was true last year, but (against two cupcakes) so far this season, the Badger D looks much improved. We shall see...both Penn State and Maryland came face-to-face with real competition last weekend and it sure changed how they looked.Well said. I just think that either defense is going to have a harder time defending the offense across from them if that offense is very unpredictable and willing to take some risks. I don’t know which team that holds true for if either
Hope you’re wrong about that but you may be right. I think a conservative game plan gets them beat pretty soundlyAgreed,stick with what got you there,keep the weasels guessing.Throwing keeps them on there heels and M's D is not to be dreaded IMO.They beat UW like a dusty rug last year time to pay the Piper.And if M's offense starts clicking you'll have to open up the playbook anyway.Damn I can't wait good thing it's an early KO
I'm afraid he just doesn't have that high of a football IQ or a real feel for the position. He throws a nice looking ball and he's athletic, but he is not a smart football player. He's kind of a dumb football player actually.I dunno it could be JH rubbing off on him.I agree with what much of what you said,but he certainly looked decent for a stretch last season.So it could be injury.Change it up and throw in MAC
I dunno it could be JH rubbing off on him.I agree with what much of what you said,but he certainly looked decent for a stretch last season.So it could be injury.Change it up and throw in MACNot sure what it is. The reality is that Harbaugh isn't some QB whisperer like we all thought. Andrew Luck was a hell of a talent that almost anyone could've coached to greatness. And it looks like that maybe Greg Roman was the real brains behind that Kapernick operation with the 49ers. Lamar Jackson looked lost as a passer last year- Greg Roman comes in and Jackson does a complete turn-around in one off-season.
Maybe coaches really do like the flavor of vanilla? Hmm...well it's only been two games- there is no doubt there is a ton of stuff that Michigan offense hasn't even gotten to yet. There has also been a lot of sloppy mistakes, dumb football, and they are starting 3 freshman right now on offense. Their projected starter at RT- Rs Soph. Andrew Steuber tore his ACL about a week before the season started and they are starting a freshman at RT. Their senior LT- Runyan Jr- has been injured the first few weeks and they were starting a freshman at LT. I like both the freshman tackles, but it looks to me like they weren't quite ready to start just yet. Both probably needed another year of development. Especially Ryan Hayes- who had never played OL in his life before getting to Michigan. They are also starting a freshman at RB. They are also without their fastest, best WR in Donovan Peoples-Jones.
When working to prepare for this new-look scheme just two games into the season, Chryst noted that whether on offense, on defense or special teams, that they are "not seeing it all."
"Yet, you’ve got to understand what a team’s trying to do, kind of what’s their base for lack of a better term," Chryst said. "You know you’re going to see things that you’re not seeing on film, and that’s part of it. You’ve got to be able to adjust within the flow of a game or fact on a play. I think that’s the challenge that everyone faces at this point in the year.”
https://wisconsin.rivals.com/news/week-4-wisconsin-badgers-paul-chryst-press-conference-highlights
I know what he meant, but to someone who might not know, it would look different. He essentially said that playing UW would be a relief from MTSU and Army.I haven't seen the quote. Source it for us?
Lots of sources. This one came up first when I typed in "Don Brown Wisconsin".So Brown basically is trying to convince himself/others UW will be playing into his hands.Schemes,formations,alignments aren't squat,ya know Jimmy's & Joe's not the Xs & Os.Some of Don's boys are going to be looking thru their earholes.If M can go up top this will be a game but their defense isn't going to stop Wisconsin.
https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/09/michigan-football-defense-don-brown-not-scared-Wisconsin/
So, it's anybody's guess who will play Saturday.You have to realize the last 2 seasons nobody has more starters injured/out than UW,save MSU.So the injury reports will garner no attention/sympathy
You have to realize the last 2 seasons nobody has more starters injured/out than UW,save MSU.So the injury reports will garner no attention/sympathyNot intended to milk for sympathy. Well aware of the Badger's injury issues. More for Michigan fans hoping for the return of several players. Because they are sorely needed.
whether JH is sandbagging or not.Haven't been this pumped for a game in while
You have to realize the last 2 seasons nobody has more starters injured/out than UW,save MSU.So the injury reports will garner no attention/sympathySame here. Not since the 2017 CCG for me, and that ended in a thud.
whether JH is sandbagging or not.Haven't been this pumped for a game in while
Not intended to milk for sympathy. Well aware of the Badger's injury issues. More for Michigan fans hoping for the return of several players. Because they are sorely needed.UW needs its complete OL for this one, so they can rotate to combat the relentless Michigan pass rush. It's crucial to me that Logan Bruss be available at RT for this one.
I don't see either team saving any special sauce for a later opponent.For both teams, this game defines the season. There will be nothing left on the field.
For both teams, this game defines the season. There will be nothing left on the field.disagree. huge game for both teams, but either team could still accomplish their goal of winning their division with a loss in this game.
Lots of sources. This one came up first when I typed in "Don Brown Wisconsin".Thanks. Now that I've seen it, I can say that when you said this:
https://wolverineswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/09/michigan-football-defense-don-brown-not-scared-Wisconsin/
Your interpretation of the quote sensationalized it. He isn't making predictions about the game or saying UW's offense is less than the last two. In fact, he flattered UW about the challenge. He's just champing at the bit to use his base defense for the first time this season.
He essentially said that playing UW would be a relief from MTSU and Army.
disagree. huge game for both teams, but either team could still accomplish their goal of winning their division with a loss in this game.Are MSU and PSU really on the level of OSU? I think not.
Michigan has to beat PSU/MSU/OSU in order to win the East. Wisconsin just has to get past Iowa. Who else in the west is a serious challenger to them? The west is turrrrrrble. As usual.
Thanks. Now that I've seen it, I can say that when you said this:Your interpretation of the quote sensationalized it. He isn't making predictions about the game or saying UW's offense is less than the last two. In fact, he flattered UW about the challenge. He's just champing at the bit to use his base defense for the first time this season.
UW needs its complete OL for this one, so they can rotate to combat the relentless Michigan pass rush. It's crucial to me that Logan Bruss be available at RT for this one.If it's relentless it's because of LBs/DBs blitzing,which means someone's open.IMO I don't think Ms D-Line is going to push around Ws O-Line
Are MSU and PSU really on the level of OSU? I think not.Since 2016 PSU has beat the Bucks and lost two consective games by a point.IMO they will be a tough out this season I like their QB Clifford.MSU also finds a way to whizz in our cheerios - gonna be a great season
Cracked me up I saw these comments on MGOLmao
(Patterson) A Poor Man's Trace McSorely in my book...who was a poor man's Baker Mayfield. That makes Shea a homeless Baker Mayfield.
At least Shea Patterson can claim to be a rich man's Tate Martell.
My hunch is that this is Dylan McCaffery's team by the 3rd quarter.
Michigan’s football team has been taking a lot of flak over the Army game. I would imagine they’re motivated and eager to get back on the field.38-13 so is UW
I dug quite a bit, trying to find anyone from UW talking. I can't find anything after Chris Orr's tweet about "bring that silly talk to Madison" in response to another Michigan school's comments.What's been said may not actually register as having said anything at all. And if it does register as something, it may correlate more with Michigan's extra media attention (more loaded questions asked and narrative pieces published) than what I think you're getting at, which is some sort of egoic cultural difference.
There's been a lot of Easterly winds coming off The Lake the past few weeks. Probably a coincidence.
On a more serious note, why say anything at all? Saying you want to "make a statement" is silly. Of course the kid's not going to say anything like "we're headed to Madison so we can shit the bed" or some such. So just STFU and play football.
Get off my lawn.
That was juicier
Wasn't there some lukewarm bulletin board material for the CMU game as well?
Yeah, that's why I mentioned that there has been an Easterly breeze off The Lake for the past few weeks. It was definitely a stronger breeze two weeks ago though.
Wasn't there some lukewarm bulletin board material for the CMU game as well?
You're overstating. What's the hubris again? "Wanting" to have a good game? Calling that hubris is pretty dramatic.Go back and read 847s take(that I agree with),what the hell do you think he was hinting at about a "statement".Not dramatic at all simply accurate,no tea leaves to read or between any lines to peak
Go back and read 847s take(that I agree with),what the hell do you think he was hinting at about a "statement".Not dramatic at all simply accurate,no tea leaves to read or between any lines to peakPatterson didn't say he *will* make a statement (a brash guarantee of success). He said he *wants* to (a dream we expect for every player).
Just stop!You're talking down the statement in case they get throttled.Embrace the Froth instead of waivering in its face.Shea is brash and confident you should follow suit.Hell if he's healthy it's bombs awayI'm not talking down the statement. I'm talking down the interpretation that it's brash/arrogant/disrespectful. He said "looking to." That's a common synonym of "wanting to" and is not the same as "guaranteed and will."
Here ya go scroll down even he stopped himself before stating.....well you know
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/shea-patterson-on-trip-to-wisconsin-were-looking-to-make-a-statement/ (https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/shea-patterson-on-trip-to-wisconsin-were-looking-to-make-a-statement/)
Some Zach Charbonnet might be injured chatter out there
I'm not talking down the statement. I'm talking down the interpretation that it's brash/arrogant/disrespectful. He said "looking to." That's a common synonym of "wanting to" and is not the same as "guaranteed and will."Did you Watch the video or were you too tired reaching for a beer?What in the Wide,Wide World of Sports do you really believe Shea was referring to?As to what 847 remarked:
I get that you like the froth, but digging in on this one is weird, since not even the Wisconsin fans agree with you. If it's true that in the end 847 was typing tongue-in-cheek (which succeeded to get a rise out of me), then you're the only one in this thread insisting to call it bulletin board material.
He'd definitely win. I'd be too slackjawed by the earring.
I think that Badge and AC ought to dook it out. :098:
He'd definitely win. I'd be too slackjawed by the earring.Duke it out in a parking lot, in Madison, next to a grill, with beers and maybe a nice flask.
Some Zach Charbonnet might be injured chatter out there
Maybe I'm seeing something interesting while watching highlights of UW's deep bomb TDs to Cephus this season. In all of these, Coan is getting hit or a hand in his face as he releases the ball. I'm curious how those plays would have turned out if tthe defensive talent were the same (USF/CMU level) everywhere but with one variable changed -- Michigan's CBs. Had the coverage caused Coan to hold on a fraction of a second longer, the deep dimension might be diminished from the offense, even against the CMU and USF level of pressure. Or maybe not. A thing to pay attention to either way.I think part of that was due to a lot of rotation by Rudolph on the OL, as he is still working to get his "best 5" on the field. Logan Bruss was also out against CMU. He would sorely missed against Michigan, for sure, if he can't go.
Me to and you and I can go at in the undercard - winner gets the Beer.Or cheese curds
I think that Badge and AC ought to dook it out. :098:
Yes I did. The video and the transcript in the link you provided say the same thingNot even close,comprehension here is a problem - he made a statement about making a statement,then zipped it.Spin it as you please the gaunlet was thrown the challange was issued.You may return to your regular Maize and Blue programming :cheer:
Duke it out in a parking lot, in Madison, next to a grill, with beers and maybe a nice flask.first one to down 12 sharkwaters wins
Just go tailgate.
Not even close,comprehension here is a problem - he made a statement about making a statement,then zipped it.Spin it as you please the gaunlet was thrown the challange was issued.You may return to your regular Maize and Blue programming :cheer:Nubbz, I've gone ahead and typed the quote to explain the non controversy. If you think there's a controversial thing he actually said (presumably a quote that I did not type), then you should type that out here so all of the relevant words said by Patterson can be seen on this screen to avoid confusion.
Maybe I'm seeing something interesting while watching highlights of UW's deep bomb TDs to Cephus this season. In all of these, Coan is getting hit or a hand in his face as he releases the ball. I'm curious how those plays would have turned out if tthe defensive talent were the same (USF/CMU level) everywhere but with one variable changed -- Michigan's CBs. Had the coverage caused Coan to hold on a fraction of a second longer, the deep dimension might be diminished from the offense, even against the CMU and USF level of pressure. Or maybe not. A thing to pay attention to either way.To respond to this: no, I don't expect the Badgers to hang 61 or even 49 points on Michigan. I expect the Badgers' offense, including Coan, will not be as good against Michigan as it was against directional Michigan/Florida.
But as far as I can tell you're fixated on filling in the blank after he stopped talking.Your fixation is in the deflection,why did MLIVE,Detroit News & Free Press all have this on their websites?It was RATHER quite direct/obvious,NO interpretation needed - if you can't HONESTLY interpret that interview then you're.............ON WISCONSIN
first one to down 12 sharkwaters wins......a resuscitation and a new liver
Ha, well yeah. But that wasn't anyone's point. I was specifically asking about the deep ball and whether we expect 1-3 long completions or possibly not even. I guess we need to further distinguish long by YAC and through the air and I mean the latter.I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this. No, Coan won't be as good against Michigan as against the directional schools. How many completions will he hit? Not zero. Over 15 yards? I would be surprised if the answer were zero, but maybe Michigan is that good. It will still key off of the running game; that's how Wisconsin plays. If Taylor is gaining yards in chunks, Coan will hit some longer strikes. If he isn't, that's less likely.
Your fixation is in the deflection,why did MLIVE,Detroit News & Free Press all have this on their websites?It was RATHER quite direct/obvious,NO interpretation needed - if you can't HONESTLY interpret that interview then you're.............ON WISCONSINYou're operating on a hunch about something that literally wasn't said. I find hunches problematic in general, so we're conflicting.
I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this. No, Coan won't be as good against Michigan as against the directional schools. How many completions will he hit? Not zero. Over 15 yards? I would be surprised if the answer were zero, but maybe Michigan is that good. It will still key off of the running game; that's how Wisconsin plays. If Taylor is gaining yards in chunks, Coan will hit some longer strikes. If he isn't, that's less likely.I didn't pick a number for "deep ball" because that's arbitrary, but the 35+ range is closer to what I meant than 15+. Let me know if you think the premise is wrong that if a team could theoretically remove the (very?) deep Cepheus passing game that it meaningfully hurts UW's balance?
To return to my theme, we just don't have enough data right now (at least for me) to have a good sense for how this goes. As the most obvious example, we were all ready to crown Maryland as a real threat after two huge wins, including against Syracuse. Now Syracuse looks bad, and with another loss to Temple, Maryland doesn't look much different from last season.
Wisconsin doesn't look the same against cupcakes as it did last season, nor does Michigan look the same against non-conference foes. Neither of those data points are enough right now to make me feel like I'm particularly informed about how this game will go. I would love to see all of the following: Wisconsin's offense is much different with a competent QB; Wisconsin's defense is much different with an actual depth chart that isn't just freshman and sophomores; Michigan's QB is a mess, who can't make reads; Michigan's offense keeps putting the ball on the turf; and Michigan's defense isn't as good up front as it was last season, allowing the Badgers more yards on the ground. All of those things would be consistent with what we've seen in the first two games for each team, and if all that were true in proportion to how these teams looked at this time last year, Wisconsin will win this game going away.
I very much doubt that.
My best guess is that Wisconsin wins this game 20-13, in a typical Alvarez-Era, Camp Randall, Wisconsin vs. Michigan football game. But that's what it is: a guess. A couple of turnovers and this game looks a lot different (in either direction).
You're operating on a hunch about something that literally wasn't said.Again for the challenged
The Chryst offense throws very few balls that travel 35+ yards in the air. It was 30-0 when Cephus received the first one of those against CMU. If that's your metric, zero wouldn't surprise me, nor would it tell me anything about the game's outcome.That's all I was looking for. In the last two games, it felt like this was a key new ability that -- if it stuck v. M, PSU, OSU -- could evolve the offense's deadliness to a 40-point unit versus anyone.
The biggest bummer for me in this game is that my cousin scheduled her wedding at 2PM. It's in a small coastal town in northern Michigan, but all the rest is a drag. Still not sure how to navigate the issue.Ludington?
Is Northern Michigan not the UP? Or is the UP simply a different country?No. UP is a separate place.
Is Northern Michigan not the UP? Or is the UP simply a different country?Harbor Springs is more like the Traverse City/Petoskey area. So HB wins this lotto. Not the UP, then, but another cool/naturey part of the state. Maybe more vacation economy than I like, but as "downsides" go, I'll def take it.
"Ever since my time here, nobody really believes in what we do," said Orr. "They downplay the big wins and up-play the losses. Knocking off the trendy preseason favorite in the Big Ten, I am eager to show the nation what we can do, how good we are, and get some type of respect."That categorizes as equally benign as "We're looking to make a statement." But at least it helps shelve the idea that Michigan players were giving quotes but UW players weren't. All in all, the talk feels equal (and far from "mouthy") to me.
I've seen a good number of analyses for this game. I've also done a bit of research on my own.Nobody will ever say you don’t have balls Badge! I like it.
I think Big Red is going to show in this one. Big Red will win.
24-10.
I haven't been following it, but the disrespect card seems to be way too overplayed. Michigan v Wisconsin has been won by the home team every year since 2010, and that was the one exception since 2001, before which Michigan dominated the series.Which has been accomplished by... nobody, ever.
Supposedly Charbonnet will be starting despite the injury rumors, so presuming that's true, Michigan should just need to win/tie the turnover margin. If Patterson is finally healthy then he should be able to keep the ball on RPOs to make that effective, especially with Runyan back at LT. Defensively, supposedly Dwumfour will finally be back, though he's more of a pass-rusher than run-stopper to be sure. Ideally one/both of the freshmen DTs have emerged to become playable as backups, but we'll see. I'm less concerned about the LBs/DBs at this point, especially against Wisconsin, since Cephus should be shut down by Hill, and I don't think Taylor, Davis and the rest are that dangerous, but maybe I'm wrong.
Not sure what the weather will be.IMO for M to come out on top their passing game has to come together.As 847 pointed out W's starting Safety Nelson is out.UW will get theirs on the ground for sure and Coan appears more than capable of stretching the field.Michigan can't fumble the ball away like they have and W can't start either.If the students can get to the game on time the crowd may factore in.It's why they play the games.I'm hoping on a late arrival of out of town relatives.See what happens when a sister makes arrangements with a niece.Nobody ever bothered to ask for my scheduleSeems to me you might be coming down with something...
Oh I forgot the Badgers have won 4 in a row in Madtown
That categorizes as equally benign as "We're looking to make a statement." But at least it helps shelve the idea that Michigan players were giving quotes but UW players weren't. All in all, the talk feels equal (and far from "mouthy") to me."Knocking off the trendy favorites" was not a quote from Chris Orr. It was an addition (with very bad grammar) from the writer.
Seems to me you might be coming down with something...Smashing advice,you're right to gross to even mention here
31? Wowzers.I don't think Michigan will put up 31, but the last 3 teams that Wisconsin has played have all sucked royally. Directional Michigan/Florida and a dead Miami program.
UW has given up 3 points in its last 3 games, going back to Miami, and no points in its last 11 quarters.
I think we're going to see a lot of McCaffrey in this game. I really do.I hope they put Shea on the short leash. If he keeps fumbling the ball, keeps making the wrong reads in the run game and not keeping it when he should, keeps not finding open WR's cause he's locking onto his primary read, and keeps over-throwing and misfiring on wide open WR's for TD's- then bench his ass.
I hope they put Shea on the short leash. If he keeps fumbling the ball, keeps making the wrong reads in the run game and not keeping it when he should, keeps not finding open WR's cause he's locking onto his primary read, and keeps over-throwing and misfiring on wide open WR's for TD's- then bench his ass.
McCaffrey deserves a shot to play if Shea keeps sucking ass.
Michigan's defense will get enough stops on Taylor and will get to Coan when he tries to pass. If Patterson and Runyan are healthy and back as advertised Patterson will do a lot of damage through the air. Yes, Wisconsin's D is good but I think coach Harbaugh, the QB whisperer, will cure Patterson's of fumbles, hanging onto the ball too long and bailing out of the pocket early.Lot of "ifs",if UWs DB's don't interfere and see if Shea is on target,that's what I'd tell Bucky DBs.UW should move the chains vs that Defense,while decent perhaps not daunting I'd come out of the corner swinging.This isn't last years match up by a long shot.I also think the Badgers Defense should get a good push as I don't see Ms backfield being that much of a factor.As I've said and others have pointed out Wolverine passing game is the key to this contest.Well that and Bucky ball control
Michigan 31
Wisconsin 17
Harbaugh isn't going to pull Shea vs the Badger defenseMight have to if he throws like the 1st two games
31? Wowzers.Why didn't you go back 4 games? :72:
UW has given up 3 points in its last 3 games, going back to Miami, and no points in its last 11 quarters.
Why didn't you go back 4 games? :72:Because Jack Coan didn't start that one. Cancer did. And that cancer is now at Florida State. Brought the Moxy with him, I reckon.
Because Jack Coan didn't start that one. Cancer did. And that cancer is now at Florida State. Brought the Moxy with him, I reckon.Starting the wrong QB? Sounds like bad coaching by Barry.
| ***BIG TEN GAME OF THE WEEK*** |
| #11 Michigan Wolverines (2-0) at #13 Wisconsin Badgers (2-0) |
| NOON - Madison, WI - FOX |
| As expected, one of these offenses rolls into this game with the Big Ten's highest completion percentage (76.9%), 3rd in passing ypa (9.2) and passing ypg (299.5); while the others passing offense limps in at 11th in completion percentage (60.9%) and ypa (7.1) and #12 in ypg (226.0). Granted I think we assumed it would be flipped, but Jack Coan has looked outstanding through two games. Yes, it's South Florida and Central Michigan, but in terms of defense, they really basically on par with Middle Tennessee and Army a year ago in terms of S&P+, with the 2019 numbers not available yet. In terms of bye weeks, early ones are generally not preferred, but for Michigan this year, this is probably the rare time where the early bye is welcomed. This looks like an offense that needed the extra week both to get healthy (Patterson and Peoples-Jones) and hammer out the issues from Week 1 and Week 2. It all starts with the offensive line and Patterson. Preseason we thought Michigan had the best quarterback in the conference, and if not the best offensive line, then 1-b to Wisconsin's 1-a. Patterson's struggles have already been noted, but Wolverines fans are hopeful his oblique injury is better after a week off. The offensive line issues are puzzling. The Wolverines are #11 in the Big Ten in rushing ypa at just 3.8, ranking among the bottom 25 in the entire FBS, in terms of Power Success rate (#12 in Big Ten) and standard down sack rate (#13 in Big Ten). The most concerning is that 55.6% power success rate, meaning the Wolverines are basically a 50/50 coin flip on converting a 3rd or 4th and 2 or less. Now they face a Wisconsin run defense that rivals Michigan State for the best in the nation thus far. In fact, Wisconsin has the only defensive line that is grading out higher than the Spartans' thus far. Michigan has the weapons, the line and Patterson just need to step up and let them make plays. The Badgers have the opposite issue. Their line, expectedly, ranks #1 in the nation in Power Success Rate and Sack Rate. But how really are their skill players aside from Jonathan Taylor, and is Jack Coan for real. The Badgers ran the ball well enough a year ago, 183 yards on 6.3 ypc, led by 101 from Taylor. But Wisconsin was completely one dimensional, and once Michigan made it a two score game in the 3rd quarter, it was game over, because Wisconsin could not throw the ball at all. Alex Hornibrook was 7-20 for 100 yards, a meaningless touchdown with 3 minutes left down 38-7, and 2 picks. His Raw QBR of 0.9 was the 4th worst single game of any quarterback in the FBS last year. Coan looks like he has grown by leaps and bounds, but I still question how much the Badger receivers can challenge this elite Michigan secondary. If they can't Wisconsin has already proven that running the ball well, alone, isn't enough. If Michigan can get a lead, it may start to snowball like it did last year, but I can't fully buy into the Michigan offense, until I see Patterson and the line deliver on the preseason hype. |
| WISCONSIN 28, MICHIGAN 24 |
Taylor has had success running against Michigan, but last year there was no passing game to compliment the run.That could be the deal breaker,nice to be able to run and throw
Harbaugh isn't going to pull Shea vs the Badger defenseWelp, he did pull him in favor of McCaffrey. For M's sake, Shae better not have hurt feelings because they will need him next week. As I've said elsewhere, I hope McC is OK, but man, it didn't look good.
Did I call that game or what lol. McCaffrey suffered a concussion, otherwise he should be OK. And he should be the starter going forward. Shea Patterson is awful. Jim Harbaugh is a bad X’s and O’s, personnel, and game management coach. He can go back to the pros for all I give a shit.I was worried about his neck. So the neck is OK then?
I just don't see this one being close. I think either Wisconsin gets an early lead and then Michigan starts falling apart with turnovers and bad offense and Wisconsin just whips Michigan's ass like 31-14 or something like thatGood call Mdot,like Devil Froggy and ELA last week.I was a UW lean but didn't see that.UW found a QB
Harbaugh was doing pretty well with the man ball. He went off script this year, and it isn't working.This new offense is terribad. However they can't block anyone so matter what offense he runs it wouldn't changed much.
Well, Michigan certainly made a statement. I was listening to Urbs after the game. Basically pins all of this on Harbaugh. And he's right.The Badgers made one of their own. As Much as Michigan sucked, the Badgers were a well oiled machine. They also had great play calling, especially their late down plays. Wisconsin has always been my 2nd favorite program in the Big 10 and I have badger envy. Over the last decade and a half, they have the program I wish Michigan was.
As bad as Michigan was, it didn't matter. Wisconsin unexpectedly dominated with their running game. Fortunately Rutgers is next, and the BigTen East teams other than Ohio State don't appear to be able to run the ball much, but we'll see....Unexpectedly?
I just don't see this one being close. I think either Wisconsin gets an early lead and then Michigan starts falling apart with turnovers and bad offense and Wisconsin just whips Michigan's ass like 31-14 or something like that- OR - Michigan's offense starts to click and Patterson starts playing like he did last year vs Wisconsin and makes great reads in the run game and is accurate with his throws and not missing wide open guys and Michigan gets some big plays and starts to pull away and win it 35-17 or something like that.
I just see it going like that. One team is going to get a little bit of a beatdown I think. Unfortunately, I think it'll be Michigan on the receiving end. Not sold on Harbaugh staying the f out of the offense and not sold on Shea Patterson.
Unexpectedly?Yeah, no shit... I expected it, and I wish PC would have kept his foot on the gas pedal.
This new offense is terribad. However they can't block anyone so matter what offense he runs it wouldn't changed much.
I now firmly believe that Bama's success last year was all about Locks, and he's in Maryland.
Yeah, I'm not saying they would have won. But this is just strange. Harbaugh isn't "speed in space" guy. He's "man ball" guy.
He changed up an offense that was dominating just about everyone, because he was unable to quite get over the hump and win Titles.
It would be like if Ryan Day dropped a couple big games down the stretch, and then next year he started running the wishbone.
Stay on script.
I now firmly believe that Bama's success last year was all about Locks, and he's in Maryland.The Athletic had a pretty scathing piece. Michigan basically panicked and hired him without even so much as an interview. Gattis was nothing more than a position coach. Maryland got the brains of the operation
Unexpectedly?If anyone thought Wisconsin was going to run for 359 yards more power to you. Michigan had not given up anywhere close to that against them since the 2010 game, which was rather similar, and only the 2013 and 2015 Ohio State games were as bad for the run defense since 2011.
If anyone thought Wisconsin was going to run for 359 yards more power to you. Michigan had not given up anywhere close to that against them since the 2010 game, which was rather similar, and only the 2013 and 2015 Ohio State games were as bad for the run defense since 2011.Well, OK.
Well, OK.JONATHAN is coming back for his senior season?
It's gonna happen next year too, FYI. Don Browne has been found out.
I'm leery of saying Michigan's offense and turnovers doom it in this game. If this game goes wrong for Michigan, presumably that's how.Still not finished enjoying this one. I know I thought this would be a closer game, but I sure like that I was wrong.
I'm also leery of saying Wisconsin's quarterback and defensive woes (read injuries destroying the depth chart) are cured as a result of two blowouts against powder puffs (South Florida wasn't supposed to be trash, but losing to GaTech looks damning), but if this game goes right for Wisconsin, that's what we will see.
...
Wisconsin doesn't look the same against cupcakes as it did last season, nor does Michigan look the same against non-conference foes. Neither of those data points are enough right now to make me feel like I'm particularly informed about how this game will go. I would love to see all of the following: Wisconsin's offense is much different with a competent QB; Wisconsin's defense is much different with an actual depth chart that isn't just freshman and sophomores; Michigan's QB is a mess, who can't make reads; Michigan's offense keeps putting the ball on the turf; and Michigan's defense isn't as good up front as it was last season, allowing the Badgers more yards on the ground. All of those things would be consistent with what we've seen in the first two games for each team, and if all that were true in proportion to how these teams looked at this time last year, Wisconsin will win this game going away.
Well, OK.this is some serious over-reaction and hyperbole. Don Brown is still a great DC. Think you are going way too far based on one game.
It's gonna happen next year too, FYI. Don Browne has been found out.
The Athletic had a pretty scathing piece. Michigan basically panicked and hired him without even so much as an interview. Gattis was nothing more than a position coach. Maryland got the brains of the operationHow can anyone reasonably say this. Maryland's offense sure as hell looked great last week putting up 13 points vs freaking Temple. Give me a break.
this is some serious over-reaction and hyperbole. Don Brown is still a great DC. Think you are going way too far based on one game.Possibly. But, I look at the results from the last 3 games he's had against ranked teams, and it's hard to ignore.
The talent level of this year's Michigan defense looks a level lower than in previous versions.appears that way, but why would this be. The recruiting stars have been at or above previous groups of classes
The talent level of this year's Michigan defense looks a level lower than in previous versions.well they did just lose two top 10 NFL draft picks in Bush and Gary. Bush is the best LB'er that's ever played at the school. Gary is only the most talented defensive lineman to ever play at the school- and regardless of his lack of production in terms of sacks- he was a dominant force as a run defender and he often occupied two blockers which freed stuff up for the other front 7 players. They also lost their most proudctive pass rusher in starting DE Chase Winovich and starting CB David Long to the 3rd round of the NFL draft. They also lost their starting FS in Tyree Kinnel and their starting NT in Bryan Mone to graduation. That's 6 starters. Gone.
How can anyone reasonably say this. Maryland's offense sure as hell looked great last week putting up 13 points vs freaking Temple. Give me a break.Temple just lost to Buffalo - I really love CFB,expect the unexpected.Except next saturday in Lincoln
Temple just lost to Buffalo - I really love CFB,expect the unexpected.Except next saturday in LincolnThat school has a head coach I would want my school to hire in a heartbeat, should Paul Chryst choose to do something different.
Now Shea P wants to "make a statement" vs... Rutgers?If he said that it's time for concussion protocol or a urine test
:57: