UW has one. 4* OT Jack Nelson out of Stoughton, WI. Kid is 6-7 and 242 at last check. Probably gonna be 300 by the time he steps foot on campus.perfect body type for a HS OT recruit right there IMO. Michigan got a kid like that in the 2018 class in Ryan Hayes. Those are the ones that usually wind up being the stud LT's.
MSU picks up it's first 2020 commit from in state OL Dallas Fincher, who is only 3*, but had offers from OSU, UM, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc..., so... Granted since he didn't commit to one of those, he's locked in at 3*He was supposed to visit Madison on President's day, but weather canceled the trip. He would at least have had something to thing about, but then again, UW already has 4 OL commits for 2020.
OSU has six deathly serious recruits, Hubbard as mentioned above along with:Forgot this thread existed. Buckeye changes: Hubbard, Wray, and Cavanos out.
Paris Johnson Jr. - 5 star lineman out of Cincy
Jack Miller - 4 star QB out of Arizona
Luke Wypler - 4 star lineman out of NJ
Jake Wray - 4 star lineman out of Georgia
Lejond Cavazos - 4 star DB out of IMG Florida
He was supposed to visit Madison on President's day, but weather canceled the trip. He would at least have had something to thing about, but then again, UW already has 4 OL commits for 2020.He was also an MSU legacy
Yep, I'm aware of that, but not in tune with who he's a legacy to. Father?Yeah, his dad played for Perles in the 80s.
I mean, that's literally what the class was. And for the first time since Lloyd Carr, if I'm not mistaken. So it's not inaccurate, just embarrassing. To be clear though, it's not embarrassing because the graphic happened per se (any non-OSU AD would have been equally likely of their version of that graphic if in the same position). The embarrassing part is because it's further evidence that Michigan can no longer claim to be above the fray. If that class were MSU's or UMd's, we'd have their forms of silly public bragsauce instead of this one. Only at OSU, where the top class had been expected, was the response the dignified "cool but whatever" that people seem to have expected Michigan to have this year after pulling it off for the first time since forever. The reason that expectation fails is that Michigan and its fanbase lost its aloofness/pride around 2009 and will either never get it back or won't until after another full decade like the 70s, 80s or 90s.Literally, according to who? We'll know in 3-4 years.
I'm thinking just about every coach in the conference thinks he has the best class. It's all very subjective.I doubt every coach thinks that, but I'm sure more than one does. So I agree that part is subjective. But this obviously isn't about that part. It's objectively about a published list.
I doubt every coach thinks that, but I'm sure more than one does. So I agree that part is subjective. But this obviously isn't about that part. It's objectively about a published list.Michigan had a big class. If you look at 247's composite, they did finish at the top of the conference. However, OSU (1) and PSU (2) have a higher player rating average than does Michigan (3). None of that really matters though. Now it's on the coaches to figure out how to make them good college football players.
Michigan had a big class. If you look at 247's composite, they did finish at the top of the conference. However, OSU (1) and PSU (2) have a higher player rating average than does Michigan (3). None of that really matters though. Now it's on the coaches to figure out how to make them good college football players.OSU had 17 kids and PSU had 23. That's true. But if you look at the star average for Michigan's top 17 kids, it's also better than OSU's, and if you look at it for Michigan's top 23 kids, it's also better than PSU's. Michigan has better classes than any Big Ten team in both raw score and star average if you compare them player by player. And then after that comparison, Michigan also has several 3-star freebie fliers on top of it.
When did all the recruiting rankings stuff really take off and become a part of the conversation?Ask Texas fans about that. They won a whole lotta February Championships before finally breaking through (on Vince Young's back/will to win).
A long while back, I would have no clue how we recruited, or who. Of course, back then freshmen played on the freshman team too.
Should I get excited that my team had some good recruiting years? Well, it's a something I suppose. But Clemson just won the NC without winning any recruiting NCs.
Not really here for recruiting class arguments part ten zillion. BUT, with the transfer portal opening and grad transfers already pretty popular, where do we rank transfers in the recruiting rankings? It's kind of weird - JUCO transfers were included in the recruiting rankings, but players from other FBS schools aren't. Justin Fields should rightly be a 5 star guy, considering he has three years of eligibility left. But Jonah Jackson only has one, but will likely start. What kind of star ranking should he get?We tend not to talk about the rankings from 4 years ago, but if we do, then I suppose we should factor in Shea Patterson and Justin Fields. Again, focusing on their high school rankings seems silly at that point, but if you're going to have that silly conversation, you might as well do it in a way that accurately reflects the roster and include them. Also, for an accurate one-season snap shot of the roster, there's really no reason to normalize these players' rankings for their remaining eligibility, whether their eligibility is one year or three their high school ranking is what it is.
When did all the recruiting rankings stuff really take off and become a part of the conversation?Well, good recruiting doesn't cause success in the W-L column, but they sure do correlate.
A long while back, I would have no clue how we recruited, or who. Of course, back then freshmen played on the freshman team too.
Should I get excited that my team had some good recruiting years? Well, it's a something I suppose. But Clemson just won the NC without winning any recruiting NCs.
I sense talking about recruiting is what folks do because there isn't much else happening. I realize it is a "necessary but not sufficient" component. I just figure our coaches are doing a good job so whether the class gets ranked by someone 1st or 3rd or 10th or 15th might not really make a difference. If I see a 30th I would worry some.As a UW fan, I see a 30th once in a while. I think they hit #27 this year. Highest ever, I believe. I'll take it. They can beat teams with better athletes and not as good a coaching staff. It's when you combine a good coaching staff with those better athletes - that causes trouble for UW. Maybe that's their ceiling. Kinda seems like it.
We tend not to talk about the rankings from 4 years ago, but if we do, then I suppose we should factor in Shea Patterson and Justin Fields. Again, focusing on their high school rankings seems silly at that point, but if you're going to have that silly conversation, you might as well do it in a way that accurately reflects the roster and include them. Also, for an accurate one-season snap shot of the roster, there's really no reason to normalize these players' rankings for their remaining eligibility, whether their eligibility is one year or three their high school ranking is what it is.I don't think so. Recruiting is getting guys to join the team. So their star ranking should in theory incorporate how good they are and what they can give to the team. A one year guy and a three year guy obviously have different levels of future possible productivity. But I'm not sure how to rank them.
I don't think so. Recruiting is getting guys to join the team. So their star ranking should in theory incorporate how good they are and what they can give to the team. A one year guy and a three year guy obviously have different levels of future possible productivity. But I'm not sure how to rank them.A single year snap shot is enough, or at least it's enough for predicting the in-group for NC contention. Bud Elliott publishes a "blue chip ratio" report every August. (4- plus 5-stars on roster) / total scholarship roster. I believe a team with a ratio less than 0.5 has precisely never won it all. Despite the fact that there are only 8-12 such teams per year. So that's a worthwhile ranking tool that exclusively focuses on a single year snapshot of HS rankings + current rosters and treats all transfers as equal, regardless their eligibility.
Then do you subtract transfers out when calculating the team rankings, if you factor the new guys you add?Again jockeying for recruiting rankings 3-4 years after the fact is super weird, but if you're going to do that, then yes. Bud Elliott's blue chip ratio is a more appropriate place to make that change, imo, and it's already happening there.
Again jockeying for recruiting rankings 3-4 years after the fact is super weird, but if you're going to do that, then yes. Bud Elliott's blue chip ratio is a more appropriate place to make that change, imo, and it's already happening there.I'm saying this in context of the the mythical "#1 recruiting class" and those rankings. I think it's just a matter of time before sites like 247 start rating transfers and including them in those rankings, but how they would do that is interesting. For example, Justin Fields appears in their 2019 commitment page but isn't included as part of the ranking for the class.
Recruiting rankings are only valuable for their predictive value. The "mythical #1 recruiting class" satisfies that but only the year it's signed. After, the BCR keeps satisfying it.The problem is that as transfers increase, the ranking is inaccurate. OSU doesn't have a class of 17, it has a class of 19. I'm not saying one must use the original ranking for a recruit. That would be silly. Also silly - ignoring transfers as if they aren't recruited.
3-4 years out, why would anyone prefer outdated rankings that are blind to NFL departures, injuries, and transfers in/out to the BCR which includes those?
This conversation is articulating a problem that doesn't exist.
The problem is that as transfers increase, the ranking is inaccurate. OSU doesn't have a class of 17, it has a class of 19. I'm not saying one must use the original ranking for a recruit. That would be silly. Also silly - ignoring transfers as if they aren't recruited.But isn't it 18, because Martell is gone? Anyone else? That's why this whole thing makes no sense.
But isn't it 18, because Martell is gone? Anyone else? That's why this whole thing makes no sense.Perhaps, maybe, I dunno. Hence the discussion - it used to be transfer were rare enough it wasn't worth the bother. But they are increasing, I think they will continue to increase, so how we categorize them is going to change with it. Justin Fields was a big time recruit, has four years to play three seasons, and is on the Heisman betting odds. He's an easy call for a five star guy. Jonah Jackson was, per 247, the 1799th ranked recruit in 2014 and chose Rutgers over Monmouth and James Madison. In 2019, he chose OSU over Oklahoma and Texas. Obviously, he is higher up on the list, but he also only has one year of eligibility. Where that falls is certainly interesting.
The problem is that as transfers increase, the ranking is inaccurate. OSU doesn't have a class of 17, it has a class of 19. I'm not saying one must use the original ranking for a recruit. That would be silly. Also silly - ignoring transfers as if they aren't recruited.My point is that it doesn't make sense to notice this "problem" and fix years old recruiting rankings when you can just abandon them for the already-made ranking that already accounts for roster updates.
Transfers are a separate thing and should not be factored into anything except for their possible impact on the team they join.That's my take and what Blue-chip ratio does. Adds up all of a team's active scholarship players who are former 4- and 5-stars and divides by total scholarship players. By that, OSU's already includes Fields but excludes Martell, etc. Conveniently, it also excludes any players that left early for the NFL.
That's my take and what Blue-chip ratio does. Adds up all of a team's active scholarship players who are former 4- and 5-stars and divides by total scholarship players. By that, OSU's already includes Fields but excludes Martell, etc. Conveniently, it also excludes any players that left early for the NFL.Well, any recruiting ranking that ignores large numbers of recruits is not worthlooking at.
I don't notice anything to fix.
Well, any recruiting ranking that ignores large numbers of recruits is not worthlooking at.Who are you saying should be included here that isn't? I think you're missing what this is
Who are you saying should be included here that isn't? I think you're missing what this isThe last two Heisman trophy winners have been transfers that never appeared on any recruiting ranking for Oklahoma. I think what I'm saying is being misunderstood. I'm not saying there is a problem that should be fixed. I'm saying recruitniks have mostly ignored transfers because they were relatively rare and hard to fit in. However, that is changing, and sites are already grappling with how to incorporate them, and I was just starting discussion on how transfers should be judged compared to other recruits. Because I am pretty sure that will be happening within the next few years.
I'd opine that looking at current rosters would make sense, does anyone out there compile that?Bud Elliott does that for each team each year when compiling and ranking their active "Blue chip ratios."
I see some data about number of 5 stars currently on a roster. As noted, a team with a lot of 4s and 5s on the roster is likely to be top ten.
How can anyone update ratings without seeing someone play?Watching them do semi-football things against other very good players mostly.
Bleh.
Yeah, and Ole Miss was clean too.Of course they were not, but that does not necessarily mean UK is dirty. Ole Miss signed more than one highly ranked dude.
Of course they were not, but that does not necessarily mean UK is dirty. Ole Miss signed more than one highly ranked dude.maybe his girlfriend is going to Kentucky?
Maybe he really hit it off with the OL coach, I have no clue. Maybe they handed him $100 K. How much money would it take to sway a HS 5 star OLman?
Yeah, and Ole Miss was clean too.Tell me how a top flight RB whose HS HC is now a position coach at Maryland (RB) ends up committing to uSC out of the blue during Memorial weekend....
Tell me how a top flight RB whose HS HC is now a position coach at Maryland (RB) ends up committing to uSC out of the blue during Memorial weekend....He hated his high school coach.
Tell me how a top flight RB whose HS HC is now a position coach at Maryland (RB) ends up committing to uSC out of the blue during Memorial weekend....I don't see him listed under USC(w) yet. Maybe it's a soft commit, or just interest. Are you talking about this dude?
He hated his high school coach.But he doesn't.
I wasn't good enough to play college soccer, but if I had, and my high school coach was now at a college, I would have gone anywhere but there.
But also, probably not that. But maybe.
I'm kinda amazed that UW can never seem to land an "elite" running back. But maybe I shouldn't be, with the zero payroll and all that.Yes. Out of the blue. Very weird.
This kid referenced above did not commit to THE USC. He committed to uSCe. Weird.
There has to be a solid reason the "elite" kids never look to Madison. The last 5* to commit was Ron Dayne, and he was rated as a fullback.Wisconsin has had an unbelievable run with RB's since the late 90s until now.
Clemson seems to have something locked and loaded, they are in Alabama territory when it comes to reloading.Clemson's class is absolutely ridiculous. It's only going to get better, as they lead for a bunch of other STARZ.
They have the #1 ranked class both overall and on average right now.
Five star receiver Julian Fleming commits to the bucks out of Pennsylvaniabig-time pick up. gives OSU a big shot in the arm in the recruit rag rankings and in terms of buzz on the trail to help them lock up other top kids. Top players want to play with each other. The more of those you have in a class, the easier it is to get more.
Wisconsin has had an unbelievable run with RB's since the late 90s until now.Todd Gurley, Nick Chubb, Sony Michel and D'andre Swift say hello.
5* RB's aren't always what they're cracked out to be. Trust me. I've seen plenty at Michigan flop in the 2000's alone. 5* Justin Fargas was like THE top HS player in the country back in the day in '99 before the internet sites. He was a big deal, hot-shot recruit, as big as they come. Fargas was moved to free safety in 2000, was pissed about it then transferred back home to Cali to USC. Just a couple years later was 5* Kelly Baraka- freakish athlete, broke the state of Michigan 100m record that was set by Charles Rogers and Tyrone Wheatley. Got kicked out of school for pot before he ever did anything. 5* David Underwood was suppose to be the next big thing from Texas. Little 3* Mike Hart arrived just a year later and won that job as a true frosh and never looked back. 5* Kevin Grady came in the year after Mike Hart, was suppose to be the thunder to Hart's lightning. He never did jackshit. 5* Derrick Green was suppose to be the savior. Saved nothing. Busted out of the program in two years. 5* Ty Isaac transferred from USC to be closer to his mother who had a serious health issue. Isaac was a solid rotational back who had some nice moments, but he was a FAR cry from a 5* stud, impact type player that you'd have expected.
Tell ya what, I kinda wish Michigan had had some of those Wisconsin 3* backs.
big-time pick up. gives OSU a big shot in the arm in the recruit rag rankings and in terms of buzz on the trail to help them lock up other top kids. Top players want to play with each other. The more of those you have in a class, the easier it is to get more.I've long since stopped trying to project high schoolers, so who knows. Michael Thomas was a Hell of a receiver despite average 40 times. In any event, OSU on a heck of a run for receivers.
I do have my doubts about just how good he is though. He's obviously very good. But he's rated as a top 5 player in the entire nation. And he "only" ran a laser timed 4.64 in the 40 at that Nike Opening combine thingy. He has good game speed on his HS tape but it's not blow you out of the water, top 5 player in the entire nation speed.
I don't know. All I'm saying- if a WR is gonna be ranked that high in HS- for me- he better damn well look and run like Julio Jones.
I've long since stopped trying to project high schoolers, so who knows. Michael Thomas was a Hell of a receiver despite average 40 times. In any event, OSU on a heck of a run for receivers.Yeah, OSU has been on a nice run for WRs for sure.
Yes. Out of the blue. Very weird.They'd been hard after him for a ling while, right? I know they can sell him as being the de facto starter. They have three senior RBs at the head of the room right now.
Especially when the head coach of his HS is now the running backs coach at Maryland, and despite the speculation, is very well-liked and respected by the football players, so him abandoning his head coach over a weekend that quick is very odd.
Muschamp must be into that SEC "stuff".
There has to be a solid reason the "elite" kids never look to Madison. The last 5* to commit was Ron Dayne, and he was rated as a fullback.Didn't UW have to bend every academic standard it had to get the last elite back it got? (Clay)
Quote All 53 schools for which football SAT scores were available had at least an 88-point gap between team members' average score and the average for the student body.
Schools with the highest admissions standards, such as Georgia Tech, the University of Virginia, the University of California-Berkeley, UCLA, and the University of North Carolina, had the biggest gaps between the SAT averages for athletes and the overall student body.
Football players performed 115 points worse on the SAT than male athletes in other sports.
The differences between athletes' and non-athletes' SAT scores were less than half as big for women (73 points) as for men (170).
Many schools routinely used a special admissions process to admit athletes who did not meet the normal entrance requirements. More than half of scholarship athletes at the University of Georgia, the University of Wisconsin, Clemson University, UCLA, Rutgers University, Texas A&M University and Louisiana State University were special admits. . . At Georgia, for instance, 73.5 percent of athletes were special admits compared with 6.6 percent of the student body as a whole.
TI expected to see Wisconsin here
FOOTBALL SAT SCORES:
THE TOP 10
School, Average
- Georgia Tech, 1028
- Oregon State, 997
- Michigan, 997
- Virginia, 993
- Purdue, 974
- Indiana, 973
- Hawaii, 968
- California, 967
- Colorado, 966
- Iowa, 964
How often do recruits go somewhere because of some form of payment? Any notions? Obviously is happens, but is it rare or fairly commonplace?I personally know an OL that was all but committed to go to Florida until Tennessee offered him some money. He went to Tennessee.
I can imagine a LOT of ways to do it without much risk of being caught.
I personally know an OL that was all but committed to go to Florida until Tennessee offered him some money. He went to Tennessee.I think we all know it happens everywhere, I do wonder how often it influences decisions. It has to be enough to be worth it, and for a booster to give more than a $200 handshake it has to be a top level guy. I actually think the draft rules help hold it down in football. You have to hide it for 3 years, and any punishments, if long enough, take you off NFL radars. Basketball? Forget about it. The kids worth paying aren't even going to class after the semester break, and once you find out they were paid and academically ineligible they have already left for the NBA.
It happens all the time. It’s very easy to do it without getting caught.
I’m not naive enough to think it’s never happened at Michigan. It’s happened at every school.
There’s 60+ P5 schools that each recruit 20-30 kids a year. There’s no way for the schools to reign in all the boosters or die hard fans with way too much money that they know what to do with. I‘d bet there’s lots of cases where coaches don’t even know only to find out later or maybe never even find out at all.
What would be the "going rate" for a 4-5 star recruit? The recruit is taking a serious risk obviously.My total guess would be installment payments of $5,000-$10,000 at a time.
Now, I can see if the father or uncle or someone with influence comes into some gravy.
Directly paying a recruit to sign? Risky, but probably happens, no idea how often, probably rarely by the coaches.
So, what if I promised say $5000 every month to Recruit A to sign, and he signs, and I stop paying?Probably nothing.
I had an employee who played FullBack who started at Georgia Southern. He was recruited by Clemson, and talked about a church where money is funneled through to get recruits cars, PS4's, money, or other "gifts".Never thought of that but a church would be an amazing way to funnel money.
He went to uSC.
He got a call from a former S&C coach now at Arizona State, working on furthering his education, and working under Herm Edwards.
Pretty cool gig, and I'm happy to have met him.
Cam Newton comes to mind
Now, I can see if the father or uncle or someone with influence comes into some gravy.
So, what if I promised say $5000 every month to Recruit A to sign, and he signs, and I stop paying?Recruit goes to you and/or the coach, says I need my $$$ or I'm blowing the whistle
Cam Newton comes to mindPretty sure Cam’s dad got paid for him to go to Auburn.
Reggie Bush???
MSU gets a commitment from 4* S Darius Snow from Texas. Had offers from Bama, Texas, UM, Georgia, ND, Oklahoma, etc... Helps that his dad is former MSU basketball player Eric Snow.And right on cue, dropped 116 spots in the updated Rivals rankings. Usually 247 is the most helmety, but whatever
Some think he'll grow into a linebacker, a la Denicos Allen
And right on cue, dropped 116 spots in the updated Rivals rankings. Usually 247 is the most helmety, but whateverRivals has been really bad for the last 3-4 years now. They used to be the standard. Now they are worse than ESPN.
it’s a 2019 recruit, but apparently 5 STARZ ATH Bru McCoy from California signed with USC and early enrolled, then decided to transfer to his runner up during his recruitment Texas. He arrived at Texas for a couple months and then decided to transfer....back to USC.Yeah, I put that in the transfer portal thread a few days ago. There's no way this system can keep going like this. I'm not sure it's good for anybody.
I’ve never seen anything like that. Does he have to sit out for two years? Knowing the NCAA he’ll get a waiver to play right away bc he’ll claim someone at Texas yelled the N word about him out loud when he wasn’t around but he heard about the ordeal through the grape vine and now he feels unsafe at Texas.
If the emotions of an 18 year old receiver could bring down the system, it wouldn't have gotten this far.I mean the transfer portal system. And I don't think it has gone very far.
Nah. Bama has 250 offers out. Michigan has 350. Nebraska has 400.Eh, better check if Johnny Majors and Jackie Sherrill are around
Not all offers are real offers.
I wonder if "we" had a ratings system based solely on a recruits offers how close it would get to reality. I know some legacy players might be outliers.I expect that's true. My bet is that "just judge the scholarship offers" is the #1 explanation for the recruiting services correlating with NCAA and Draft outcomes as tightly as they do.
But if you see X with offers from Bama, Clemson, USC, Texas, Ohio State ...., it's a pretty good basis for rating him 4-5 *, without knowing anything else.
Then of course if he signs with say Michigan State, you drop him 126 places just because.
Of course, I'd also bet that these coaches miss fewer players today than ever. The continuous rise of the internet means that it's never been harder to hide an elite recruit than it is this year,.This
There's no doubt that real gems are still missed sometimes. And we're getting at the most likely mechanism should the recruiting services miss the next Charles Woodson -- because the best P5 coaches missed him first.I think this is right, and I think it's interesting how we've come to a point where we understand the system and have so much information that when a guy gets missed, we pretty much understand. And what's very interesting is we have a good grasp of understanding why someone might get missed and a less good one about why someone busts out.
Of course, I'd also bet that these coaches miss fewer players today than ever. The continuous rise of the internet means that it's never been harder to hide an elite recruit than it is this year,.
Nah. Bama has 250 offers out. Michigan has 350. Nebraska has 400.true, they are offers in the sense that they might find a mutual liking, similar to dating
Not all offers are real offers.
So, I send offers to say 5-8 running backs hoping to sign 2, and when 2 commit, I pull the others? Then if the commits flip ...?it's complicated for sure
I guess they have backup plans.
Could get complicated.
UGA is trying to do a Wisconsin it seems. The OL averages 330. They like to run the ball. The QB is decent. Deandre Swift at RB is pretty good. They really need to get'er done this year.The problem is that Bama is in the way. Much like for UW having those beasts in the East in their way. I think Georgia is better than UW, and they should be given the kids they get there.
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-Football-Isaiah-Wilson-offensive-line-132650168/?fbclid=IwAR36PRLiueiFcwY9QxcyFYQp5XhsPgErpt0cib9oy8GfIBmoZpeQgTLYcBg (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Georgia-Football-Isaiah-Wilson-offensive-line-132650168/?fbclid=IwAR36PRLiueiFcwY9QxcyFYQp5XhsPgErpt0cib9oy8GfIBmoZpeQgTLYcBg)
I could see messing up your kitchen, making a French meal and all that. Appreciate the invite!!
Two people can pass easily in it.hah, Badge will put that idea to the true test!
I never trust the flips before they are signed.never trust any of 'em til they sign.
I think most of the commits end up signing, probably 85% or so, so I trust most will follow through, but a flip instantly raises questions.1 flip is generally OK. what you really have to watch out for the multi-flippers. there's been kids that commit to 5 different schools in the course of the crootin season. it's insane.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2019-nfl-draft-picks-high-school-recruiting-star-rankings-for-first-round-selections/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2019-nfl-draft-picks-high-school-recruiting-star-rankings-for-first-round-selections/)No one-stars. I believe the breakdown goes something like this.
I may have posted this already, found it interesting. Considering that the 3 star ranking includes a large number of players this isn't surprising. The 5 stars are few in number, something like 30 per year. The unranked is interesting of course. So, like most things, there is some correlation that is far from perfect. Are there 1 star rated players?
2019 NFL Draft first round by recruiting rating
- 5-stars: 8
- 4-stars: 9
- 3-stars: 11
- 2-stars: 1
- Unranked: 3
I'll take the 4 on the bottomThis is a noble statement, but it got me thinking, who are those guys.
never trust any of 'em til they sign.Offensively Day and staff have been doing very well. I wouldn’t say killing it. Defensive side they are sucking a$$. Not sure any of the new coaches he added has a commit yet. I don’t like it. Hopefully the Def starts getting commitments
And so much for the notion that OSU's 'crootin would suffer without Urbs. Ryan Day has been killing it on the trail.
4 star OT Grant Toutant flips from PSU to OSUPSU also lost 4* CB Josh Moten this afternoon. He's the third 4* recruit to decommit from Penn State this week. Texas A&M looks like the favorite to land him now.
3* DE Kyle King from Indiana committed to MSU out of the blue, over Purdue and Indiana. Hadn't even heard the name, apparently just offered him this week.Interesting pick up. He comes from a program that has been monstrously successful for five years, usually without much high-end recruiting talent. Usually very talented, but more in terms of high school guys. They tend to be extremely well coached. And hyper productive.
never trust any of 'em til they sign.But like you just pointed out ya gotta kill it at signing
And so much for the notion that OSU's 'crootin would suffer without Urbs. Ryan Day has been killing it on the trail.
De-commitments happen when coaches are high-pressure types. PJ Barnum is another one. I think he's lost 4 this year too.Where are you getting information that PJ is high pressure?
Where are you getting information that PJ is high pressure?From the comments by players who have visited and from the comments by the many players who have decommitted.
3 star DE Ty Hamilton commits to the bucks out of Pickerington. Younger brother of Davon HamiltonCongrats to him on his 4th star.
From the comments by players who have visited and from the comments by the many players who have decommitted.just because he went in to Wisconsin and put a beat down on your team you should not be jealous
MSU also picked up a kicker. Feels like we have given way too many scholarships to kickers recently. This one is ranked #3, but it seems like they all are.How have they turned out.
just because he went in to Wisconsin and put a beat down on your team you should not be jealousMy friend, he’s been saying the same thing since well before that game. To break out the “jealous” trope is ... well a tad silly.
Give me links to these so called decommitts and the links to the guys who have visited Minnesota and left and said there was pressure on them to commit
Pretty sure PJ uses the same verbiage as all college football coaches use. Most times PJ has not taken commitments from recruits until they have slept on the decision and he has even told kids to be sure before giving the verbal
So hearing this from a Rival is seriously disappointing on a Blog like this which is supposed to be a grade a head of the normal fan based blog
Congrats to him on his 4th star.HA! ISWYDT
I think the walk on kickers catch our eye when they do well, but not so much when they are mired behind a ship kicker.Is the first sentence tongue in cheek?
I suspect the sship fellows do better in most cases.
A team might find a kicker with a strong leg but no accuracy and correct his technique etc. and "fix him". You often get little coaching in HS for kicking.
Anyway, everyone knows how a great kicker can "save a game" in a season while few other players have the capacity.
From the comments by players who have visited and from the comments by the many players who have decommitted.From a recent recruit and many more are just like it
I thought most programs actually gave kickers scholarships... I didn't think most were walk-ons.Out of HS? No.
Maybe I'm wrong on that.
Out of HS? No.Huh. Never heard this before. I figured that given how important a kicker/punter is to a team, that there would be legitimate competition for their services, just like there is at basically every other position.
Usually you bring in walk-on, they compete, once one is settled for a bit as a starter, scholarship.
Id forgotten UW had a scholarship guy. He was pretty good, but up and down. Not great last year, and maybe less of a rangy weapon than you’d hope.
How have they turned out.Agree. I think they succeed/fail at the same rate as non-scholarship kickers.
My sense is scholarship kickers aren't that much more successful than walk-ons, or at least, scholarships don’t seem to have that high a rate of turning into solid starters.
Agree. I think they succeed/fail at the same rate as non-scholarship kickers.I’m guessing it’s a better rate, but so much of a better rate.
3* DE Kyle King from Indiana committed to MSU out of the blue, over Purdue and Indiana. Hadn't even heard the name, apparently just offered him this week.Another 3* DE out of the blue this morning. Jeff Pietrowski from Lakewood, OH. Picked MSU over Pitt, Purdue and Minnesota. Hadn't even heard the name until he committed.
It would be interesting to see how many kickers are signed out of HS and which teams seem to do this and which rarely do this.After I mentioned it, I looked back and UGA and UW both seem to do that. UW occasionally adds a punter and recently a long snapper (double checking it can get weird).
My memory is that UGA signs one every 2-3 years, punters not so much, if ever.
Out of HS? No.This means MSU will have three KICKERS on scholarship in 2020. Coghlin as the senior and primary kicker; Hahn as a junior kickoff specialist, and the incoming freshman, who will be redshirting.
Usually you bring in walk-on, they compete, once one is settled for a bit as a starter, scholarship.
Id forgotten UW had a scholarship guy. He was pretty good, but up and down. Not great last year, and maybe less of a rangy weapon than you’d hope.
Ugh, looks like MSU slow played QB Mike Alaimo, waiting on Chubba Purdy, and Alaimo committed to Purdue.Looks like he's the highest-rated QB recruit for Purdue since Kyle Orton.
Purdy is higher rated, but honestly, I liked Alaimo better. Really, really good get for Brohm
Does anyone know how schools play this scheme where they have 50+ offers out at a time?It works like this, offers don’t have to be accepted. So to commit, you have to call the coach and say you will, and the coach in theory can say “we can’t take you at this time.” Sometimes they make something up like you have to do x, y, z as a senior.
They are contingent offers? If they get their quota of LBs do they rescind other offers suddenly?
Do they get caught at times with more commits than they can accept under the limits?
Do they "bank" a couple openings to be safe?
Ugh, looks like MSU slow played QB Mike Alaimo, waiting on Chubba Purdy, and Alaimo committed to Purdue.Well they had both kids on campus last weekend, and now Purdy moved up his commitment to tomorrow, so I guess they had a plan...hopefully...
Purdy is higher rated, but honestly, I liked Alaimo better. Really, really good get for Brohm
No D1 offers or interest but my 5'6" 150lb but really fast son (RB & DB) has several D3 schools that are interested in him. Too bad genetics are against him when it comes to size.This site has a spot for him on the front page. Missing STARZ and all that. Check it out.
Well they had both kids on campus last weekend, and now Purdy moved up his commitment to tomorrow, so I guess they had a plan...hopefully...And he committed to Louisville. Really worried about the QB future
Sounds like 9 or 10 kids just committed to Michigan. The names are rolling out slowly, but already include the nation's #1 safety. Am interested in the full list. Hope it includes AJ Henning.Jordan Morant is the top rated safety.
They did pick up a pair of 3* defensive players from Ohio, which has frequently worked out. DE Chris Mayfield and CB Angelo GroseMake it 4 with LB Devin HIghtower, who, based on his offer list, looks more like a 4* FWIW.
Make it 3 with LB Devin HIghtower, who, based on his offer list, looks more like a 4* FWIW.3* WR Ricky White out of Georgia to close out before the dead period.
Michigan commit = rating bump.. upHey now, I don't think that's fair!
UW commits = rating bump.. down.
Happened yesterday on a UW guy that made his commit last weekend. 4* now 3*.
Hey now, I don't think that's fair!Jonathan Taylor = 3*
Michigan commit = rating bump.. upWhich LB was that?
UW commits = rating bump.. down.
Happened yesterday on a UW guy that made his commit last weekend. 4* now 3*.
It's the post-commit boost, that is 100% subscriber pandering, that means very little to me.I enjoy it when you point it out though. That's why I'm going to start doing it. Ha!
A helmet offer used to mean something, and I had no problem with giving a boost there. The issue now is that they have so many offers out, that you never know which ones are real, and you can't boost all of those kids. MSU got an Ohio kid with an OSU "offer" already this cycle, but nobody thought that was commitable.
It's the post-commit boost, that is 100% subscriber pandering, that means very little to me.
These aren't Consumer Reports, they are subscription driven businesses, and the helmet schools provide the most subscribers. Thanks to Fox News/MSNBC culture, people don't want to hear anything than a validation of their own opinions.So, this feels a little dissonant because it struggles in getting interrogated by itself.
After missing out on their top two QB targets to Louisville and Purdue, MSU has turned to 3* CA QB CJ Stroud, who grew up in Michigan. He's WSUs #1 target though, and I don't know why you wouldn't prefer to play in that offense.And then he went out and set a Day 1 scoring record at the Elite 11 finals. So, my guess is his recruitment is a little more than MSU vs. WSU now
3 star tight end Joe Royer commits to the Bucks out of Cincinnati
I bet he is a very good player with potential, and his current 3 star rating may hurt OSU's ranking.He'll be a 4* by the end of the week.
Harbaugh continuing his summer hot streak, as 4* WR Roman Wilson (6'0, 175 lbs) from Hawaii commits to Michigan. Wilson got bumped up to 4* status after he set one of those Nike Opening combines on fire with a laser timed 4.32 in the 40, 3.96 shuttle, and vertical leap of 39"Well hopefully he can't catch......or study
Michigan has been on a recruiting potlash. That said, Michigan has a huge need for DTs and there are no such recruits at this time.Evidently they're going to outscore some teams
He'll be a 4* by the end of the week.He would be a lot higher if he wasn't a bean pole. If he can put on good weight he's a stud, he has a ton of athleticism. If he either can't put on the weight, or loses a step when he does, 3* is right. Granted he's also tall enough that depending on how much weight he adds, you could just let him keep going, and make him an OT
Yeah, UW needs DT's in a bad way too. Not much out there right now. Emerging seniors will have to suffice for this cycle.big get for Frost
Losing Hutmacher to UNL really hurt, but not surprising given where he lives, and that his parents are UNL fans.
3 star receiver Cameron Martinez commits to the Bucks out of MichiganMSU is crapping the bed hard in state this year. I think the TE recruit we got is vastly underrated, but not in love with the other in state we got, and we are missing on a ton of kids.
3 star receiver Cameron Martinez commits to the Bucks out of Michiganson of a bitch. I know Harbaugh and his staff loved him. He won't be a 3* for long. He's a 4* player imo. Hell of an athlete that could play RB, slot WR, Safety, or even the infamous Don Brown VIPER position. He's a do it all utility knife for his HS team and he doesn't really do the camps or combines which is probably why he's a 3*.
MSU is crapping the bed hard in state this year.I'd say that's good news for us but the school down the road will just snag them so meh
I'd say that's good news for us but the school down the road will just snag them so mehUM hasn't really taken any more than they ever do. Lots of outside programs coming in.
Four star receiver Mookie Cooper commits to the Bucks out of MissouriCookie Mooper would be a better name
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/College-football-recruiting-arms-race-Alabama-Ohio-State-Georgia-Clemson-LSU--133490848/?fbclid=IwAR2DOUeeAIZjHrzgEyngYMQ7lx774LaQaKP3LzrMVhzGeaIo7BXelY9eaCA (https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/College-football-recruiting-arms-race-Alabama-Ohio-State-Georgia-Clemson-LSU--133490848/?fbclid=IwAR2DOUeeAIZjHrzgEyngYMQ7lx774LaQaKP3LzrMVhzGeaIo7BXelY9eaCA)LSU, who hasn't had a 10-win season since 2013?
“There definitely is an arms race between Georgia, Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, LSU, those type of schools,” Georgia quarterback commit Carson Beck (https://247sports.com/Player/Carson-Beck-46053141) told 247Sports. “All the top talent is going to get truly split between those schools unless one school comes together and form that No. 1 class that’s just unreal.”
LSU, who hasn't had a 10-win season since 2013?They won 10 last year.
Interesting.
Oops! How'd I miss that? ~???College football is a massive and oft beautiful landscape, with stories happening everywhere.
LSU is usually near the top of the recruiting rankings, I think that was the point. The same 5 programs take half the top ten every year, probably 5 out of the top 7 nearly every year. Clemson has really upped their recruiting. They were in the teens not too many years back. (Duh).How would that hurt them against Bama? (Unless you mean in last year’s title game)
What Dabo has done there merits some credit I think and oddly gets over looked to an extent. I saw some numbers that said Clemson has the highest "chance" by far of winning the conference (duh). I thought that could hurt them against Bama.
And then he went out and set a Day 1 scoring record at the Elite 11 finals. So, my guess is his recruitment is a little more than MSU vs. WSU nowWas the Elite 11 Finals MVP, so yeah...ain't happening
Was the Elite 11 Finals MVP, so yeah...ain't happeningI'd like to see a multiyear overview of how the E11 top ten compares versus the top ten QBs on, say, the 247-composite. Back when I used to follow both closely, I was surprised by how different the two lists were. My hypothesis is that the composite better correlates with postseason awards and NFL draft order. Hypothesis means guess, but Dilfer never seemed trustworthy or consistent as a judge, so I can't start by giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I'd like to see a multiyear overview of how the E11 top ten compares versus the top ten QBs on, say, the 247-composite. Back when I used to follow both closely, I was surprised by how different the two lists were. My hypothesis is that the composite better correlates with postseason awards and NFL draft order. Hypothesis means guess, but Dilfer never seemed trustworthy or consistent as a judge, so I can't start by giving him the benefit of the doubt.Yeah, no clue, but I'm guessing his re-rank will be quite a bit higher than a middling 3* with WSU and MSU as his presumptive leaders. I'm always wary of guys shooting up based on how they look in shorts, but MSU already missed on their 1-a and 1-b targets at QB, so as a third option, I suppose they could do worse, I just don't see a guy with the options he should have now, playing across the country in MSU's trash offense.
Dawgs got a commit from some dude who is 6'7" and 327 pounds, in high school. How do you get that big in HS? And he plays DB.How do they get a team of these guys on a plane?C-130
Not really.
Some running back out of CA committed to UGA. Our last 5* once in a generation RB tore two ACLs. We'll see if he's back soon enough.Shame what happened to Zamir White. He was one of the very best RB recruits to come down the pike in the last decade imo. Not quite Leonard Fournette, but as close as it gets.
Four star safety RJ Moten commits to the class. He joins Four star safety Jordan Morant, with four star safety Makari Paige seeming probable to join this week at the annual stadium barbecue. That's not the best class of 3+ safeties in history, but it's a good one.This class has lot of 247 composite 4* guys. Light on the 5 STARZ though.
I’m just relieved that the 5* RB Kendall Milton out of Cali didn’t go to Ohio State. I’d much rather him play at Georgia than at the enemy.Bastage!!!Supposedly the Bucks have another 4*/5* in the wings and this might have had something to do with it.But it is all mostly tail feathers until February
I saw somewhere that TCU signed a 3* QB from Germany. Guy is 6'7".(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2F4b9c536fb190569e081dc76f0567b1f3%2F202964554%2Fnfl_mustaches_03.png&hash=8f0ba401d56dde49bfd5cc87ac0cdc98)
This class has lot of 247 composite 4* guys. Light on the 5 STARZ though.I'd say that's right. The class will fill needs, finish well rounded, and second in the conference but light on the peak blue-chippers. That and the top class will go to OSU by a good margin. But being well rounded (rich in kids between the national Top 100 and Top 500 with almost no one falling outside that range) as a "down year recruiting" ain't so bad.
Four star safety RJ Moten commits to the class. He joins Four star safety Jordan Morant, with four star safety Makari Paige seeming probable to join this week at the annual stadium barbecue. That's not the best class of 3+ safeties in history, but it's a good one.And there it is. Makari drops. With the three four-stars, Michigan should be done at Safety now.
That gives the Michigan class either 23 or 24 commits, depending on one's definition of a scholarship athlete. That debate is really all about Gaige Garcia. He's committed to Michigan with joint Wrestling/Football scholarship offers. If he ever plays football, he'll count for the football allotment. That's the NCAA bylaw. But we're not sure that'll happen. His situation has him starting at wrestling. If he ever makes the football team (recruited as a RB), he'll get that scholarship, instead. The problem that I and others see is that wrestling is a make-weight sport. It's common for HS wrestlers to become great college gridiron guys. But I'm struggling to remember a guy who did both *in* college.the way Harbaugh operates? Lol. That kid Gaige Garcia has zero shot in hell of ever getting a football scholarship. Probably won't even be in this class come NSD.
There's talk of adding one-each at CB, DT, WR and calling it quits. I bet things go really quiet now and the rest gets decided in December or, for the right guy, after.
And there it is. Makari drops. With the three four-stars, Michigan should be done at Safety now.heckuva safety class. Especially when you combine it with last years class of Dax Hill (5* STARZ, legit 4.3 freakazoid) and 4* Quentin Johnson (ran 4.47 at NIKE OPENING at 5'10ish and 200ish).
That gives the Michigan class either 23 or 24 commits...That would make a class of 26-27?
...There's talk of adding one-each at CB, DT, WR and calling it quits.
That would make a class of 26-27?19 before the cuts. There's gonna be a couple transfers too. Always is.
M has 19 scholarship seniors right now, based on my count.
it's called oversigning in the southOversigning's definition involves pushing out kids before they graduate. Generally it involved pushing out underclassmen; sometimes it involved pushing out true freshmen (the lowest rated in their class) a week before matriculating. None of this applies to college graduates who occupied the roster throughout their 4-year contract. Unlike underclassmen with an active contract and without a degree, fifth year seniors are not a vulnerable population in need of protection.
I hear less about over signing these days. Of course the SEC has not looked so "dominant" either.The new SEC class restriction rules almost perfectly eliminated oversigning nationwide.
If you look at any recruiting map, the SEC should be totally dominant.
just stirring the pot.......
BUT if you read all that and still interpret it as negative, who am I am to fight your opinion? There can be a negative side to needing to make the team to earn a fifth-year scholarship, and if you want we can come up with a word to describe that. But it cant be "oversigning." That one is already taken to describe a distinctly other thing.
FSU and USC are gonna suck this year.And not everyone on the debate stage before a primary is even polling at 3%. Still, asking "Who made it onto that stage?" gives us a useful and select group. And it's worth repeating that the eventual winner is guaranteed to be in that group.
starting in 98I'll have to check but I don't think the reason it starts in '98 is because it wouldn't have worked in '97 but because the star system doesn't go back that far. I strongly suspect Michigan's '97 crew would be regarded as >50% in BCR if the data were available.
Michigan and Nebraska's 1997 teams didn't make the list
both pretty good teams and worthy of MNC
The first Athlon I ever bought, in maybe 1995, certainly had recruiting rankings, but I don't think went beyond top 50 by conference, then ranked the top 25 or so classes.Did that Athlon use the 5-star system? Was it Tom Lemming; was there anyone else back then? Also, the '97 team would have been built of '93 through '97 classes. That's picking nits (if there were rankings in '95, there were probably rankings a year and more earlier than that), but all this does put a fence around unanswered questions that are key to the conversation.
Also, here's this
http://sportstreatise.com/2018/01/1995-nebraska-and-the-myth-of-championship-recruiting/ (http://sportstreatise.com/2018/01/1995-nebraska-and-the-myth-of-championship-recruiting/)
I'd give the kid with sub 4.3 speed an opportunity to prove he was a football player and not just a track guyBased on his offer list (https://247sports.com/Recruitment/Marcellus-Moore-123786/RecruitInterests/), plenty of other schools were willing to give him that opportunity... Including Frosty and the Huskers.
The first Athlon I ever bought, in maybe 1995, certainly had recruiting rankings, but I don't think went beyond top 50 by conference, then ranked the top 25 or so classes.That's a very interesting article on the Huskers, ELA.
Also, here's this
http://sportstreatise.com/2018/01/1995-nebraska-and-the-myth-of-championship-recruiting/ (http://sportstreatise.com/2018/01/1995-nebraska-and-the-myth-of-championship-recruiting/)
Did that Athlon use the 5-star system? Was it Tom Lemming; was there anyone else back then? Also, the '97 team would have been built of '93 through '97 classes. That's picking nits (if there were rankings in '95, there were probably rankings a year and more earlier than that), but all this does put a fence around unanswered questions that are key to the conversation.Tom Lemming, 93-97
no Huskers on the top 20
https://twitter.com/ChadCarson247/status/697433116982513664?s=19
Tom Lemming, 93-97That's good evidence of Michigan being "in." And if the "BCR >50%" threshold for that period included 10 or fewer teams (rather than 13 or so, as it did in 2018), then that does suggest UNL was "out."
http://a.espncdn.com/ncf/s/2002/0205/1323082.html
Here, I think Blue Chip Illustrated's rankings might have been what Athlon published. Aside from Orlando Pace, these didn't pan out so well.A 10% hit rate of "super stars whose names everyone remembers for decades" (Pace and Manning) is pretty good -- arguably excellent.
It's also led to us being unable to judge players on their own merits, but just whether a player exceeded or fell short of his recruiting ranking. Chris Howard and Chris Floyd were part of a solid backfield for the national title team. The narrative surrounding those two is way different today, based on us hearing since 1993, O"Michigan signed 2 of the top 3 RBs in the nation!". They were solid players, but certainly not that.
https://twitter.com/ChadCarson247/status/697433116982513664?s=19
A 10% hit rate of "super stars whose names everyone remembers for decades" (Pace and Manning) is pretty good -- arguably excellent.But I think anyone can identify those generational talents. The vast majority of those guys, I don't even recognize the names, and I watched as much college football in that era as anyone. I would bet that is not the case with the Rivals top 20 from say 2002.
But I think anyone can identify those generational talents.I'm not so sure. Many more kids seem generational than actually are. I think the real ones can only be "predicted" by casting a sufficiently wide net and expecting x% to fall inside. That's the idea behind recruiting rankings working quite well in aggregate and significantly less well individually.
The vast majority of those guys, I don't even recognize the names, and I watched as much college football in that era as anyone. I would bet that is not the case with the Rivals top 20 from say 2002.Maybe the industry has gotten better since 2002. I think that might be your point, and I don't want to fight that one. But I do think that many guys in five-star status, maybe even a majority, will end up utterly anonymous outside their fan base, certainly outside their conference 20 years after matriculating.
Maybe the industry has gotten better since 2002. I think that might be your point, and I don't want to fight that one. But I do think that many guys in five-star status, maybe even a majority, will end up utterly anonymous outside their fan base, certainly outside their conference 20 years after matriculating.I'm saying I think the industry got better between 1995 and 2002. Has it since then? Possibly, harder to judge since in between I actually started paying attention to recruiting, so by my unscientific test, I'm going to know more names, simply because I remember them as being major recruits.
In my experience, the five star players almost always end up being between very good and first rounders. You get some busts at the 4 star level of course, but the correlation between number of stars and draft position is actually pretty good.I'm in a weird spot in this conversation because I fully agree with you. I'm not dogging the rankings. I am fully in board with their success in aggregate. I'm just acknowledging that we should also expect them to highly rank a different swath of kids whose names we'll eventually easily forget. It can be both ways.
I took a look at the top 20 in the Rivals100 class of 2002 rankings for shits and gigs to compare it to the list ELA posted from the 90s from twitter.Yeah, you're right.
Doesn’t look all that much different to be honest. Lots of wtf how was he ranked so high in there too.
1) Vince Young, QB - Texas
2) Haloti Ngata, DT - Oregon
3) Lorenzo Booker, RB - FSU
4) Ben Olson, QB - Miami
5) Reggie McNeal, ATH - Texas A&M
6) Chris Davis, ATH - FSU
7) Ryan Moore, WR - Miami
8) Marcus Vick, QB - VT
9) Leon Washington, RB - FSU
10) Ciatrick Faison, RB - Florida
11) Kai Parham, DE - Virginia
12) Gerald Riggs Jr, RB - Tennessee
13) Rodrique Wright, DT - Texas
14) Michael Johnson, RB - Virginia
15) Justin Blalock, OG - Texas
16) DiShon Platt, WR - FSU
17) Ricardo Hurley, LB - South Car.
18) Nathan Rhodes, OT - Washington
19) Brandon Jeffries, OT - Tennessee
20) Trent Edwards, QB - Stanford
Honestly, doesn’t look much different from that 90s list to me. Actually, looks kinda worse. FSU and Tennessee had lotta 5* busts right there. Holy moly.
Kids flip flop all the time he was in/out,in/out a couple of times.Might be all USC by FebruaryTruth. Never matters til they sign. And now with the transfer portal and waivers and true freshman like that Bru McCoy transferring from USC to Texas back to USC in the span of a month- it’s just become an even bigger shit show than it already was.
Full agreement on this point. I think it's probably gotten better whether we change the year or not. Still I think the services predict the arrival of significantly more "generational athletes" than actually exist. And I think that if you view the Top 20 from, say, 2015 in 2035 that you'd be similarly struck by how many utterly anonymous names are listed.When I was doing a lot of fantasy football stuff over the last few years, it was amazing to see just how many "generational" players came along. Typically at least 1 player at a particular skill position (such as RB or WR) every single year.
Ohio State loses out on 5* RB Bijan Robinson out of Arizona. He was thought to be a heavy lean to the Buckeyes, but just announced for Texas.I think you're right. A lot of top RBs won't want to go to a school known for throwing the ball around.
Have to think that with Urban gone- who always had a run heavy approach- that OSU might not be as attractive to RBs now. Ryan Day seems more of a pass heavy coach. Kinda showed with those ridiculous #’s Haskins and those WRs put up last season. Which, I’m all for that style of offense. Don’t get me wrong. I love pass pass pass. Open it up. Ryan Day’s offenses are brilliant. But when your QB is throwing for 5,000+ yards and 50 TDs- elite high school RBs who want touches might start to think hey, I probably won’t carry it that much there.
I think you're right. A lot of top RBs won't want to go to a school known for throwing the ball around.elite HS players always tend to go where they think they will get the most touches/playing time.
BUT it sometimes happens anyway. OU successfully recruited Adrian Peterson in 2003-04 despite being an Air Raid offense with a Heisman winning QB and a Heisman runner-up QB in the last 4 years.
We haven't had an Adrian Peterson since then, but we've had guys like DeMarco Murray, Joe Mixon, Samaje Perine, and Rodney Anderson who were pretty dang good.
Maybe the selling point is that defenses will be so focused on the passing game that the RB may not get 300 touches, but he will have a high ypc stat.
elite HS players always tend to go where they think they will get the most touches/playing time.Heh.
Alabama kind of flipped that on it's head, they talk 5*'s into sitting on the bench for 2 years somehow.
elite HS players always tend to go where they think they will get the most touches/playing time.It actually might make perfect sense.
Alabama kind of flipped that on it's head, they talk 5*'s into sitting on the bench for 2 years somehow.
The school with the most 5 star players on the roster today is not Alabama last I checked.crazy to think that USC and Florida State are #4 and 5 on that list. Supposedly have the 4th and 5th most blue chip players of any team in the nation- and I'd be willing to bet good money both those teams suck complete ass this year.
https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/ (https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/)
This is from 2018, and OSU would be up one since then and UGA down one, not counting 2019 freshmen.
I think at running back, you might well want to sit a year and learn and then play two years, or even just one. They probably will use you on special teams.
I think at QB you want to play from the start if you can, same with OL and WR and maybe defense.
so, were the recruiting ratings wrong, or is there a lack of decent coaching causing the suck ass?probably a combo of both going on there. as others have said, team chemistry is huge as well. if there's a bunch of assholes on the team that nobody likes and the locker room gets fractured, well that's a real quick way for losses to pile up and for things to just snowball and go south in a hurry.
maybe a combo of both?
No doubt coaching is critical, both at the top and in the staff. I think there also is a lot going on with "team chemistry" as well, something that may be more random in nature. I'm not sure a great coach can win an NC these days with mediocre recruiting, say 25th in the 247. I think they can be 11-2 obviously, really good years, but it's tough to make the FF and win without top level coaching. I think Clemson had some classes in the teens when they won the first time.yes, but now that they have won, they don't have classes in the teens any longer.
I think Clemson had some classes in the teens when they won the first time.The extent of "some" is what matters. Clemson was still one of 9-13 teams with a BCR greater than 50% when they won their first NC.
yes, but now that they have won, they don't have classes in the teens any longer.Clemson is interesting because those teens classes were heavy on four-stars and those four-stars played like high four-stars and five starts at a really good rate. Had a few 3 stars hit in a massive way as well. (Some might have been hurt by academics as well)
Due to better recruiting because the 4 and 5 stars want to win, or due to those 3 and 4 stars getting bumped to 4 and 5 because Clemson is recruiting them?
Purdue picked up Christian Gonzalez, a 4* safety out of Texas. Other offers included Notre Dame, Alabama, and Ohio State.FYI, interesting tidbit. David Blough recently married Melissa Gonzales... Who is the sister to Christian Gonzales. Which undoubtedly affected his choice of school.
It will likely be a brief trip, but for the moment, that pushes Purdue into the Top 25 for the 2020 classes.
Didn't we bust Harbaugh's chops for hiring/recruiting Family.Well it's not cute when Purdue pulls it-BastagesThen I guess I shouldn't freak you out by posting this list... https://purduesports.com/coaches.aspx?path=football (https://purduesports.com/coaches.aspx?path=football)
Speaking of mid-90s Michigan football recruiting, I also stumbled into this...pretty interesting.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~svijan/mich95_6/foot.html (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~svijan/mich95_6/foot.html)
pretty interesting.Good question. I recall hearing once that USC had NFL HOFers in 4 consecutive recruiting classes in the late 70s. And not borderline dudes either. I think it was like Ronnie Lott, Anthony Munoz, Marcus Allen, and...?
Michigan's 1995 class had.....Tom Brady and Charles Woodson. Wonder if any one recruiting class had two players wind up being that great in the NFL. Both are 1st ballot NFL HOF locks. Brady is basically the undisputed greatest ever of NFL QBs, hell maybe even players. Woodson's career wasn't too shabby either. Definitely in that discussion of greatest all-around DB ever.
Good question. I recall hearing once that USC had NFL HOFers in 4 consecutive recruiting classes in the late 70s. And not borderline dudes either. I think it was like Ronnie Lott, Anthony Munoz, Marcus Allen, and...?Bruce Matthews
Ron Yary?Holy hell amigo you're harkening back thru the dim mists of antiquity
Big name on the board is Maliq Carr, a 6'4" 230# WR, 4*, with current crystal ball of 75% to Purdue. May be a dual-sport athlete and spend a little time with Matt Painter as well. Not expected to announce until mid-October though.He's all in on playing both. Apparently he's down to either Purdue or Georgia, which were the only schools to offer him that option.
He's all in on playing both. Apparently he's down to either Purdue or Georgia, which were the only schools to offer him that option.Michigan wants him as a TE. He doesn't want to play TE.
Michigan wants him as a TE. He doesn't want to play TE.Izzo does not want him at all, apparently. I think it was the 247 writer who said Purdue and Georgia were the only schools that were all in on him playing both sports
Izzo does not want him at all, apparently. I think it was the 247 writer who said Purdue and Georgia were the only schools that were all in on him playing both sportsYes. But in addition, I've read that he doesn't want to move to TE, so schools which are not committed to keeping him at WR didn't make the cut.
Promises are part of recruiting. But we will probably just bob our heads and say "yup sounds right" when he becomes a true TE and doesn't make the round ball roster at Purdue or Georgia.He could make it at Georgia for sure.
He's a prototypical future TE - could be a great one
He could make it at Georgia for sure.yeah, he's not a high level enough basketball player to play at MSU or Michigan imo. Like you said, he could probably play at Georgia.
I think he could make it at any of these schools, but would be a borderline guy. He's not even as good as like Matt Trannon, who was at best a serviceable body for the hoops team by the time he was a senior. In the end, it probably just prevented him from being as good as he could have been at football.
Kind of like Funchess?Who I thought was goodhe's not even as good as Funchess imo. Funchess was a 2nd round pick as a WR.
He's probably not a true WR and not a true TE. He's more a flex TE/WR hybrid in a spread offense. He would probably look great in Purdue's offense.With his size and measurables, I'm thinking of Dustin Keller as a good comparison.
Where is he now, Philly?Indianapolis. Could have a big year if Andrew Luck could ever stay healthy.
he's not even as good as Funchess imo. Funchess was a 2nd round pick as a WR.That was my thought. Poor man's Funchess
The Huskers landed their first running back commitment for the class of 2020.He just set an official visit to Madison for this fall.
On Wednesday, 3-star (HV Rating: 85.7) running back Sevion Morrison announced that he has committed to Nebraska. Morrison made his announcement at a ceremony at his school.
This was another early evaluation win for the Huskers. Nebraska was the first team to offer a scholarship to the Tulsa running back. Over the weekend of June 21, Morrison made the trip to Lincoln for an official visit. After that official visit he told Hail Varsity that he found a family vibe in Lincoln. Morrison also loved the offensive fit for him in Lincoln.
Morrison picked Nebraska over Arkansas and Missouri. He held over 20 scholarship offers from around the country. The Oklahoma native became the ninth known member of the 2020 recruiting class.
good to knowLike you in a skins tournament
I like that Frost seems to try to recruit good kids, but we all know ya gotta have the studs, good or not so good
Badge are you busting FFs chops?Well either way he'll be Big RedNope. The kid came right out and said it.
it happens - wasn't Harbaugh accused?Ya but I mean to the actuall offenders
Wisconsin out-dueled some of the nation's top programs for their top tight end target in the class of 2020.If a top tier tight end named Cam Large DIDN'T commit to Wisconsin I'd suspect shenanigans.
Announcing his commitment to the Badgers on Tuesday, Dedham (Mass.) Noble and Greenough School tight end (https://247sports.com/Player/Cam-Large-46052942)Cam Large (https://247sports.com/Player/Cam-Large-46052942) became commitment No. 14 for UW.
If a top tier tight end named Cam Large DIDN'T commit to Wisconsin I'd suspect shenanigans.No doubt.
mostly for CWSooner.............And Edison beat hated rival Tulsa Memorial 67-0. Memorial has about a 2:1 advantage in this series that dates back to the 1960s, but not last night.
Nebraska commit Sevion Morrison eclipses 4,000 career rushing yards and breaks the school rushing record at Tulsa Edison set by Spencer Tillman.
Nebraska added a big commit to its 2020 class on Thursday in Henry Gray.What do Wisconsin and Northwestern have to do with this post?
The 6-foot-1, 185-pound cornerback out of Miami (Fla.) Central announced his commitment to the Big Red via social media. Gray picked NU over finalists such as Miami, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan and had over 25 total offers to his name. Gray becomes the 11th known verbal commit for Nebraska's 2020 recruiting class.
Out of Miami Central High School, Gray is rated 201st among all recruits in the 247Sports composite rankings, and 32nd among all players in the talent rich state of Florida.
Gray becomes the third commit from Florida in the 2020 class joining DB Tamon Lynum and RB Marvin Scott III. The Huskers' lone 2021 commit, DE RJ Sorensen, also hails from Florida. That's an important factor considering NU didn't sign anyone from the Sunshine State last year and they want to continue to recruit the state hard in the future.
Yeah, no clue, but I'm guessing his re-rank will be quite a bit higher than a middling 3* with WSU and MSU as his presumptive leaders. I'm always wary of guys shooting up based on how they look in shorts, but MSU already missed on their 1-a and 1-b targets at QB, so as a third option, I suppose they could do worse, I just don't see a guy with the options he should have now, playing across the country in MSU's trash offense.
What's his name? From your posts it sounds like his offer list still hasn't grown. Maybe it won't.C.J. Stroud.
C.J. Stroud.Some chatter about that. OSU already has a QB committed in Jack Miller, but they only have two guys on scholarship there next year so they want to add another one. Of course, the way QBs go these days there all lots of concerns that Miller would leave if Stroud commits.
And yesterday Ohio State offered, so...
Bucks tag Jacolbe Cowan, a four star DL out of North Carolina.Just seeing this,evidently had offers from Bama,Clemson,Georgia,N.Carolina,Tennessee amongst others
Sounds like 3* QB Noah Kim from VA is flipping from VT to MSU. Decommitted from VT last night, set up his OV to MSU for this weekend, and both the MSU and VT 247 guys immediately put in CBs for MSU.Committed tonight. So I guess we got our 4th choice.
Wow, Michigan's 2020 QB commit forced to retire due to a heart condition. You have to feel bad for the kid.I’d feel worse for him had he had to play for Jim Harbaugh.
MSU gets an out of nowhere commitment from 2020 WR Montorie Foster from St. Edward's in Ohio. Was a mid-tier basketball recruit with MAC/A10 offers, hadn't played football since 7th grade. Decided to play as a senior for the first time, never camped, and caught MSU coaches eyes when he dominated 2021 3* CB Kalen King when St. Edward's played Detroit Cass Tech.St Ed's won the DivI State Title last Year and again they're in the mix now.It's about 7 miles away the opposite direction of Joe Bachie.Trying to get my grad buddies to land some seats for us if they can.Their kids are fundamentally sound if anything
MSU flipped a 3* OT from Canada away from EMU.And added a 3* DE/OLB out of OH today. Chose MSU over WVU
So that's where we are right now
3 star receiver Cameron Martinez commits to the Bucks out of Michigan4 star across the board now, and won Mr. Football today
Do we have a 2021 thread yet?Bump.
There's never been so many JuCo kids in this conference since UNL joined. Most of our schools can't touch those kids.kid from Texas
Blueshirt?I had the same question.
Hmmm. Is that an NCAA thing?https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football-recruiting/2016/1/28/10842688/ncaa-football-grayshirt-blueshirt-redshirt-rules
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football-recruiting/2016/1/28/10842688/ncaa-football-grayshirt-blueshirt-redshirt-rulesThanks, ELA.
4 star across the board now, and won Mr. Football todayCan Martinez won't sign during the early period with OSU. Wants to see who replaces Hefley first.
Can Martinez won't sign during the early period with OSU. Wants to see who replaces Hefley first.Smart move I think. Was not going to enroll early so why not wait until February.
What's going on in Austin?In fairness, it was on Longhorn Network, so nobody saw it
WOW... as a joke????He was in the coaches' room, and LHN had a camera in there. Unclear if he knew he was live, but he was clearly doing it at the camera.
All of MSU's commits signed except RB Jordon Simmons from Georgia. He had said he wouldn't be signing until February all along, but that's one that really makes me nervous, particularly since it seems more and more clear JUCO transfer Alante Brown, who had his offer pulled last year, after being committed, for academic reasons, but had circled back, seems headed for Nebraska.And like that, committed to Frost. Hell of an athlete
Some chatter about that. OSU already has a QB committed in Jack Miller, but they only have two guys on scholarship there next year so they want to add another one. Of course, the way QBs go these days there all lots of concerns that Miller would leave if Stroud commits.Stroud committed.
4* WR Rakim Jarrett, a top 35 recruit from DC, flipped from LSU to Maryland.
There's Locksley paying off
I just searched it on twitter. His staff seems to be laughing. I'm guess they all thought the cameras were off and messing around. Perhaps I'm giving him too much credit...Perhaps, but why risk it?
Stroud committed.Yes- when he won the Elite Eleven competition his profile picked up.
Obviously not the low 3* recruit anymore that he was when MSU offered him as their Plan C, after their first two choices picked Louisville and Purdue.
Right now Rutgers is up 15 spots over USCw, in the recruiting rankings.it's such a pretty campus
Yes- when he won the Elite Eleven competition his profile picked up.Waste of time to read UM or OSU boards. This is the only board worth reading my friend.
Of course- he is not ver good, “project at best” according to a UM post I just read- and only committed to the Buckeyes because they paid him cash, gave him a car and told him he didn’t have to go to class. 😂😂😂😂
Waste of time to read UM or OSU boards. This is the only board worth reading my friend.Let me know where to send the check.
The people who wrote that are idiots. Stroud is big-time and if Ryan Day wants a QB- that’s enough for me. Day’s track record right now at OSU with QBs is ridiculous. Way better than Harbs’ track record with QBs at Michigan, that’s for damn sure.
The rich just get richer. Makes sense though. Right now if I was a player in HS and I had offers from both schools- hate to say it- but I wouldn’t be going to Michigan. The coaching staff and program and structure at Ohio State is just flat out better. A lot better. Stroud made the right choice.
Waste of time to read UM or OSU boards. This is the only board worth reading my friend.At least MSU fans were like "hey, maybe" when they were competing against lower tier Pac 12 schools. As soon as he blew up on the camp circuit, they were like, welp, no good QB with options is signing up for this dumpster fire offense.
The people who wrote that are idiots. Stroud is big-time and if Ryan Day wants a QB- that’s enough for me. Day’s track record right now at OSU with QBs is ridiculous. Way better than Harbs’ track record with QBs at Michigan, that’s for damn sure.
The rich just get richer. Makes sense though. Right now if I was a player in HS and I had offers from both schools- hate to say it- but I wouldn’t be going to Michigan. The coaching staff and program and structure at Ohio State is just flat out better. A lot better. Stroud made the right choice.
4* WR Rakim Jarrett, a top 35 recruit from DC, flipped from LSU to Maryland.Can we get a QB that can get him the ball, or an OL to keep the QB upright?
There's Locksley paying off
Can we get a QB that can get him the ball, or an OL to keep the QB upright?Sure. Recruit Wisconsin kids (the ones UW doesn't want).
I mean, not like UW has a track record with east coast RBsOne of these days, one of them will hit, otherwise they'll stop coming over.
One of these days, one of them will hit, otherwise they'll stop coming over.Yep. Ron Dayne, Anthony Davis, Corey Clement and Jonathon Tayler were all busts. Hopefully this one will be the winner.
Yep. Ron Dayne, Anthony Davis, Corey Clement and Jonathon Tayler were all busts. Hopefully this one will be the winner.System players
All of MSU's commits signed except RB Jordon Simmons from Georgia. He had said he wouldn't be signing until February all along, but that's one that really makes me nervous,Took his OV this past weekend and re-affirmed he will sign with MSU.
Leads me to believe MD didn't want to sign kids then bolt.But he hung around long enough to get the bonus.Not sure if the Admn's sent him packing or not.One thing the program can sell is almost instant playing time and opportunity.And with these portals now lot of kids will be jumping ship when they don't get snaps with their 1st choice.That could work out for SpartyThis keeps being brought up by everyone but MSU fans. He earned that bonus. He got that clause in his contract at a time when MSU didn't want him to bolt. So rather than a buyout raise, they gave him this carrot to stick around, basically through the 2019-20 coaching carousel. Most MSU fans who wanted him gone, still said, just give him the bonus on December 27, and work out his retirement then.
Wow,could spell the end for Helton.Not really sure one way or another but if he can coach - no better time than the present to start proving itChanging demographics is part of it. The part of California's population that is growing is immigrants, and they mostly like soccer rather than football.
Edit:And perhaps Chippy across town better get innovative instead of riding a long ago rep.Next year could be his last to.Hard to believe S.Cali doesn't have the allure it once did.
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19699933/NSDMAP2.jpg)
Leads me to believe MD didn't want to sign kids then bolt.But he hung around long enough to get the bonus.Not sure if the Admn's sent him packing or not.One thing the program can sell is almost instant playing time and opportunity.And with these portals now lot of kids will be jumping ship when they don't get snaps with their 1st choice.That could work out for Spartyhow many kids signed early?? all but 3??
how many kids signed early?? all but 3??I agree.
He earned the bonus, that's his.
But, if he knew he was leaving when those kids signed early and didn't tell them............ that's not good
I would hope MSU would let any kids out of their LOI who wanted to.maybe but they'd also be tossing away a great opportuniy for snaps.Lot of talent get shoved aside at the top 10 or so programs.I'm sure some of the Sparty coaches would bring that up
maybe but they'd also be tossing away a great opportuniy for snaps.Lot of talent get shoved aside at the top 10 or so programs.I'm sure some of the Sparty coaches would bring that upShould still be the kids' call to make at this point.
2 of MSUs 3 verbals who hadn't signed, still did so this morning, but the important one, Georgia RB Jordon Simmons, has said he still needs to think about it in the wake of Dantonio's retirement. GrrrrrSigned, helps that he had a relationship with Tucker from when Tucker was at Georgia, and Tucker continued to recruit him at Colorado