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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5040 on: July 24, 2021, 11:17:49 AM »
Gotta search smarter, I suppose. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5041 on: July 24, 2021, 11:31:20 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on July 24, 2021, 11:17:49 AM
Gotta search smarter, I suppose.
Can you just give some links? Pretty please?
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5042 on: July 24, 2021, 11:33:55 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 24, 2021, 11:31:20 AM
Can you just give some links? Pretty please?
Man I have in the course of this thread. Google is probably better than a collection of links. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5043 on: July 24, 2021, 11:41:38 AM »
A bombshell report from closely followed International Energy Agency » Yale Climate Connections

This isn't a plan, it's a list of things that have to happen, and it's clearly a joke.  I reference the "plan" before.  It starts with no more coal plants after 2021, which is obviously absurd.  I look at this and say "Ain't happenin', we need to consider another option."

What we get are "commitments" with no substance to them.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5044 on: July 24, 2021, 11:46:24 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 24, 2021, 11:41:38 AM
A bombshell report from closely followed International Energy Agency » Yale Climate Connections

This isn't a plan, it's a list of things that have to happen, and it's clearly a joke.  I reference the "plan" before.  It starts with no more coal plants after 2021, which is obviously absurd.  I look at this and say "Ain't happenin', we need to consider another option."

What we get are "commitments" with no substance to them.
Hey look plans. One problem is the mindset we have towards solving problems, which instead of choosing among the best of a bunch of tough options, we cling to the notion that if something isn't 100% solved, it is some sort of failure. The Talladega Nights of problem solving.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5045 on: July 24, 2021, 11:55:53 AM »
Once again, that isn't a plan, at all, in any way shape or form, and it's dead out of the gate.  It's a clear indication that this simply is not happening despite all the promises and targets.  It's unrealistic, in the extreme.  Maybe wwith great effort and expense we can chip away a tenth or two, but this outline clearly shows "we" globally are simply not going to get anywhere close to net zero 2050.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5046 on: July 24, 2021, 12:08:57 PM »
Unrealistic and nonexistent are two very different things. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5047 on: July 24, 2021, 12:13:57 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 24, 2021, 11:13:51 AM
I've searched for years for a serious plan, and not found a single one, just some airy aspirational notional vague things to spend money and offer no practiability or detail at all.  The reason there are no plans is we simply can't get "there" from here in any sensible fashion.
I didn't say "nonexistent", I did note the pseudo-plans I had found were unrealistic and impracticable, which is in some ways even worse.

It's akin to having a plan to lose 20 pounds in a year, and you note you need to:

Run 5 miles a day.
Give up sugar.
Give up alcohol.
Hit the gym 3x a week.

And then a month into it you find you have run half a mile once, been to the gym once, and drank yourself silly.  Yeah, it's a plan, but wasn't practicable, and wasn't going to happen.  
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5048 on: July 24, 2021, 12:32:20 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 24, 2021, 12:13:57 PM
I didn't say "nonexistent", I did note the pseudo-plans I had found were unrealistic and impracticable, which is in some ways even worse.

It's akin to having a plan to lose 20 pounds in a year, and you note you need to:

Run 5 miles a day.
Give up sugar.
Give up alcohol.
Hit the gym 3x a week.

And then a month into it you find you have run half a mile once, been to the gym once, and drank yourself silly.  Yeah, it's a plan, but wasn't practicable, and wasn't going to happen. 
Do people not run 5K a day, skip sugar and alcohol, and go to the gym? Surely I'm not one of them, but they do exist. What's missing is commitment, not a plan.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5049 on: July 24, 2021, 01:00:24 PM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on July 24, 2021, 10:47:05 AM
Hard to vote for funding when youre only 15% of the world problem
When China and India start funding we can look at the US doing likewise
Ya why spend perhaps billions and risk our financial future when other nations who stand to gain just as much are obstaining and in fact counter productive. RIGHT NOW the only reasonable solution I see is Nuclear.But many are more worried about PC than practicality 
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MrNubbz

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5050 on: July 24, 2021, 01:05:59 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on July 24, 2021, 12:32:20 PM
Do people not run 5K a day, skip sugar and alcohol, and go to the gym? Surely I'm not one of them, but they do exist. What's missing is commitment, not a plan.
Skip 3 of the 4 then you're prolly at Keggs & Eggs
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5051 on: July 24, 2021, 03:33:32 PM »
I asked for a practicable, realistic plan.  There isn't one, anywhere, because it simply is not possible within the constraints of the situation.  The IEA outline shows the ridiculousness of this quite clearly, it lays out needed steps that will not happen and are not happening, already.  It's dead on arrival.

But we probably can and well might spend trillions to shave off a tenth or two.

We should also be looking at mitigation and management.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5052 on: July 24, 2021, 04:15:40 PM »
On some measures, Paris could be judged a failure. Emissions in 2015 were about 50 bn tonnes. By 2019, they had risen to about 55bn tonnes, according to the UN Environment Programme (Unep). Carbon output fell dramatically, by about 17% overall and far more in some regions, in this spring’s coronavirus lockdowns, but the plunge also revealed an uncomfortable truth: even when transport, industry and commerce grind to a halt, the majority of emissions remain intact. Far greater systemic change is needed, particularly in energy generation around the world, to meet the Paris goals.

Ban Ki-moon, former UN secretary-general, told the Guardian: “We have lost a lot of time. Five years after the agreement in Paris was adopted with huge expectations and commitment by world leaders, we have not done enough.”

What’s more, we are still digging up and burning fossil fuels at a frantic rate. Unep reported last week that production of fossil fuels is planned to increase by 2% a year. Meanwhile, we continue to destroy the world’s carbon sinks, by cutting down forests – the world is still losing an area of forest the size of the UK each year, despite commitments to stop deforestation – as well as drying out peatlands and wetlands, and reducing the ocean’s capacity to absorb carbon from the air.
Global temperatures have already risen by more than 1C above pre-industrial levels, and the results in extreme weather are evident around the world. Wildfires raged across Australia and the US this year, more than 30 hurricanes struck, heatwaves blasted Siberia, and the Arctic ice is melting faster.

The Paris agreement five years on: is it strong enough to avert climate catastrophe? | Paris climate agreement | The Guardian


Reality is often unpleasant, but it doesn't care.

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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #5053 on: July 24, 2021, 04:47:47 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 24, 2021, 03:33:32 PM
I asked for a practicable, realistic plan.  There isn't one, anywhere, because it simply is not possible within the constraints of the situation.  The IEA outline shows the ridiculousness of this quite clearly, it lays out needed steps that will not happen and are not happening, already.  It's dead on arrival.

But we probably can and well might spend trillions to shave off a tenth or two.

We should also be looking at mitigation and management.
Any good plan would look at reducing the amount of carbon emitted into the atmosphere. This is clearly achievable, easily measurable, and there are numerous ways to accomplish it. The idea that no plan exists is absurd. It is simply false. That there is no plan we wish to follow - quite true.
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