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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4438 on: March 16, 2021, 11:34:47 AM »
GM and Ford take cues from Tesla, but try to avoid Musk's mistakes (cnbc.com)
GM and Ford take cues from Tesla, but try to avoid Musk's mistakes (cnbc.com)

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4439 on: March 16, 2021, 08:01:14 PM »
The study also concluded that EU 2050 climate neutrality, if achieved, will likely cause only a very small decrease in the average global atmospheric temperature increase, estimated at between 0.05°C and 0.15°C in 2100, and no more than between 0.02°C and 0.06°C in 2050, assuming no carbon leakage occurs. Electricity-generating technologies therefore should be evaluated for the degree to which they constitute ‘no regrets’ solutions.
Presuming the above is accurate (and it's consistent with what I've been saying), why should we "invest" trillions to achieve a very slight possible decrease in global warming?

China is going crazy here.  Europe and the US are bit players now.

MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4440 on: March 16, 2021, 08:09:52 PM »
Presuming the above is accurate (and it's consistent with what I've been saying), why should we "invest" trillions to achieve a very slight possible decrease in global warming?

China is going crazy here.  Europe and the US are bit players now.
What did they say about 2200?

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4441 on: March 16, 2021, 08:21:54 PM »
I don't believe anyone thinks the models would be predictive past 2100 or so, if that.

I think one can hope nuclear fusion becomes a viable power source by ca. 2070.  In 180 years, we likely can expect something to supplant fossil fuels.  Mankind has been using fossil fuel only about 200 years to any extent, only about 100 years to a significant extent.  But, spending huge sums NOW in some crash program is clearly not warranted.  Continuing to invest in technology and effort more gradually does make sense.


MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4442 on: March 16, 2021, 08:27:48 PM »
I don't believe anyone thinks the models would be predictive past 2100 or so, if that.

I think one can hope nuclear fusion becomes a viable power source by ca. 2070.  In 180 years, we likely can expect something to supplant fossil fuels.  Mankind has been using fossil fuel only about 200 years to any extent, only about 100 years to a significant extent.  But, spending huge sums NOW in some crash program is clearly not warranted.  Continuing to invest in technology and effort more gradually does make sense.
Well that's the real trick.  The climate isn't responsive to short term trends. Most of our models are based on a lot of geologic evidence that can range in hundreds to thousands to millions of years. We have nuclear power now, but there isn't a lot of policy forcing innovation towards any sort of fusion. That is something that has to go into the cost/benefit analysis - if there is no real penalty for keeping the status quo, it is difficult to say that other forms of energy production is anything but a lottery ticket.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4443 on: March 16, 2021, 08:32:00 PM »
. We have nuclear power now, but there isn't a lot of policy forcing innovation towards any sort of fusion. That is something that has to go into the cost/benefit analysis - if there is no real penalty for keeping the status quo, it is difficult to say that other forms of energy production is anything but a lottery ticket.
There is considerable effort being applied to developing practicable nuclear fusion.  Maybe it's not enough, maybe some of it is not being done as well as it should be, but there is considerable effort.  There is a lot of criticism about the various programs, particularly ITER, and it may be valid criticism, but it reflects a considerable effort.

I lean to thinking such multinational efforts grind their gears a lot.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4444 on: March 17, 2021, 10:37:46 AM »
https://www.worldoil.com/news/2021/3/15/russia-s-carbon-dependent-economy-challenges-a-clean-energy-shift


“We have to be realistic, we are the largest country in the world,” the minister for development of the Arctic and Far East said in a video interview, projecting a 30-year future for natural gas as a mobile, clean alternative to coal. “Solar is not an option for the Arctic region and wind energy isn’t constant.”

Chekunkov’s approach reflects a Russian dilemma: Seen from Moscow, the melting of the polar ice cap is as much economic opportunity as natural disaster, opening the Northern Sea Route from Asia to Europe for shipping and creating access to potentially vast new reserves of minerals, oil and gas.

More broadly, of the bigger geopolitical players — China, the European Union, India, Russia and the U.S. — none risks as much from a successful transition from fossil fuels, if that should happen. Few are as dubious that it will.

“We also know how that’s working out,” President Vladimir Putin said of the transition, during a video call in early March with Russia’s coal industry bosses in which he called for increased exports to Asia. “Texas is frozen and the wind turbines there had to be heated in ways that are a long way from being environmentally friendly. Maybe that will lead to some corrections, too.”
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4445 on: March 17, 2021, 10:42:11 AM »
I think the US will throw money at the wall and pretend it helps something.  Mostly it will be pork.  IF wind and solar are cost competitive now, why does it need government intervention to promote it?

And the difference down the road of a tenth of a degree C strikes me as irrelevant, not even measurable.  But, it affords Congress a lot of potential for spreading funds as favors.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4446 on: March 17, 2021, 11:16:26 AM »
that's all this is about........

politicians being greedy politicians

helping themselves, not the people or the world
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4447 on: March 17, 2021, 11:19:39 AM »
It's ideal for them.  Climate change can be presented as a crisis on which we HAVE to spend money, and the "other side" is anti-science.  So, we HAVE to spend money, on this and that.  Any attempt to ask for a plan or cost:benefit or other questions will be relegated to the Denier list.

We'll spend a huge sum better used for other needs, but a lot of Friends of Congress will get wealthier.

The debt will grow again, nobody worries about that any more (save the party out of power at times).

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4448 on: March 18, 2021, 08:37:38 AM »
https://bloombergcoalcountdown.com/


Global Coal Countdown Dashboard

The Bloomberg Global Coal Countdown has one singular mission: to track and countdown the world's remaining coal plant units as decision-makers across governments and the private sector work together to accelerate the transition to a clean energy future.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4449 on: March 18, 2021, 10:19:53 AM »
https://bloombergcoalcountdown.com/


Global Coal Countdown Dashboard

The Bloomberg Global Coal Countdown has one singular mission: to track and countdown the world's remaining coal plant units as decision-makers across governments and the private sector work together to accelerate the transition to a clean energy future.
I wish Texas had a few more coal power plants during the cold snap we had
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4450 on: March 18, 2021, 10:23:59 AM »
I can see one from my house

good reliable inexpensive power
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4451 on: March 18, 2021, 10:29:43 AM »
I can see one from my house

good reliable inexpensive power
I understand that power plants can be built to run off hydrogen maybe thats the answer

They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

 

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