header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

 (Read 751263 times)

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17625
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #980 on: April 02, 2020, 09:44:54 AM »
I'll say this again-- I think the parts of the country that have been buckled down since mid-March, are only going to be able to continue to the end of April at the longest.  Then, things are going to get ugly.  There are already millions out of work.  Hundreds of thousands starting to starve.

The risk utility function is going to look very, very different if/when those people become violent.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71186
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #981 on: April 02, 2020, 09:47:21 AM »
I read "somewhere" it may start doubling every day, not that it has already.  Let's presume it increases by 1.3x each day, that puts us at 160,000 total by April 15, and a like amount "on the way down".  At 1.2x, we hit 76,000 total by mid April.

So, that increase per day factor merits attention.

https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/01/white-house-coronavirus-death-models-scarpino






MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #982 on: April 02, 2020, 09:49:25 AM »
If we don't see a large bend downward over the next week, well, it means our efforts aren't helping.  And THAT means, there's no point in continuing them.
I disagree with this CD left a great link a few pages back.There will be a leveling off and the precautions can play a big roll to start trimming this thing back.This is a classic case of patience is a virtue,throwing caution to the wind would be disasterous at this point
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #983 on: April 02, 2020, 09:52:52 AM »
Take a look at California-- data seems pretty good there, compared to the population and population density.  I'd expect worse, and so far it's not happening.  That's a great sign.
The Spicoli's are taking things serious - good on them
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17106
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #984 on: April 02, 2020, 09:57:05 AM »
The risk utility function is going to look very, very different if/when those people become violent.
Could get there and hope/pray not
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17625
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #985 on: April 02, 2020, 10:00:05 AM »
I disagree with this CD left a great link a few pages back.There will be a leveling off and the precautions can play a big roll to start trimming this thing back.This is a classic case of patience is a virtue,throwing caution to the wind would be disasterous at this point
We've got to flatten.  If we're doing all of this distancing, and don't see the flattening, it means we're doing the wrong thing.

Also, I'm getting really annoyed with folks saying things like, "we can't end the quarantines and risk the virus spreading just for the sake of the economy."

Because, "The Economy" isn't a thing.  It's the millions that are out of work that are a thing.  It's the hundreds of thousands that are in danger of starving, that are a thing.

I don't give one flying shit about "The Economy." I do care about the people in danger of starving, and the violence that could result from that.  

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17625
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #986 on: April 02, 2020, 10:03:44 AM »
I read "somewhere" it may start doubling every day, not that it has already.  Let's presume it increases by 1.3x each day, that puts us at 160,000 total by April 15, and a like amount "on the way down".  At 1.2x, we hit 76,000 total by mid April.

So, that increase per day factor merits attention.

https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/01/white-house-coronavirus-death-models-scarpino







It's not even close to doubling every day here in the USA, and I'm pretty sure neither Italy nor Spain nor any other country has ever reported daily doubling in deaths.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7848
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #987 on: April 02, 2020, 10:04:42 AM »
We've got to flatten.  If we're doing all of this distancing, and don't see the flattening, it means we're doing the wrong thing.

Also, I'm getting really annoyed with folks saying things like, "we can't end the quarantines and risk the virus spreading just for the sake of the economy."

Because, "The Economy" isn't a thing.  It's the millions that are out of work that are a thing.  It's the hundreds of thousands that are in danger of starving, that are a thing.

I don't give one flying shit about "The Economy." I do care about the people in danger of starving, and the violence that could result from that. 
I assume the worry is that if it spikes and hospitals are overwhelmed, you see an economic crash anyway. Maybe not this severe, but if people see images of older folks turned away at hospitals, they'll stay home (ideally). 

There's also gonna be a follow up medical crisis because older folks with chronic issues are probably putting off some things for fear of doctors offices. 

The many externalities are just bad, bad, bad

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14328
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #988 on: April 02, 2020, 10:07:57 AM »
what is the actual fatality rate? I believe they are saying it’s under 2% in the US. 

But how many millions of people have been exposed to this thing and had little to no symptoms and never got tested. There was a study done by a European country I think it was Sweden or something that suggests that nearly 50% of the people who contract this virus don’t even get sick. 

All I know is, I was sicker than a dog for almost two weeks in the middle of January. Never in my life got that sick from a regular flu. I think it’s possible that I may have already had this thing already and got better. I can guarantee you this thing was circulating in the US well before March. 

So far there have been 5,000 deaths in the US. This is a country close to 350 million people if you’re including illegals. We can’t shut down the entire country and risk going into a depression over a disease that quiet honestly just isn’t that deadly. If it was a disease like Ebola that had a fatality rate of 60% or something insane like that- sure- shut the shit down. 

I think a lot of this hysteria is driven by the media and by people that want to take down Trump. This virus is terrible don’t get me wrong, any amount of people dying is just sad, but I honestly don’t believe it’s as bad as “they” say it is. Millions and millions of people aren’t going to die from this. And millions and millions wouldn’t have died even if they didn’t lock everything down.

China still needs to be dealt with over this however just purely based on the economic damage that this thing is doing and also because of the potential that something a lot worse could come out of those disgusting wildlife wet markets. I don’t get how the CCP didn’t permanently shut down the wet markets after the SARS outbreak in 2003-2004. The damn CCP let them open right back up. Freaking morons. 

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12140
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #989 on: April 02, 2020, 10:12:39 AM »
California's data isn't very good: https://covidtracking.com/data/state/california#history

The state only appears to have tested 30,000 people. They only appear to be clearing through ~2-3000 tests per day. They keep reporting ~64K "pending" tests and we don't really know what the heck that means. 

I say "appear" because it's unclear if they're actually reporting actual number of negative tests correctly, so we don't know if their total number of tests are accurate. 

However, based on the hard numbers, they show 215 deaths and 9936 confirmed cases, a case fatality rate of about 2.15%. New York's case fatality rate currently sits at 2.64%. 

So unless California is mis-counting deaths for some reason, maybe they're doing a good job? 

Or maybe it's about to explode.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17625
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #990 on: April 02, 2020, 10:14:33 AM »
what is the actual fatality rate? I believe they are saying it’s under 2% in the US.

But how many millions of people have been exposed to this thing and had little to no symptoms and never got tested. There was a study done by a European country I think it was Sweden or something that suggests that nearly 50% of the people who contract this virus don’t even get sick.

All I know is, I was sicker than a dog for almost two weeks in the middle of January. Never in my life got that sick from a regular flu. I think it’s possible that I may have already had this thing already and got better. I can guarantee you this thing was circulating in the US well before March.

So far there have been 5,000 deaths in the US. This is a country close to 350 million people if you’re including illegals. We can’t shut down the entire country and risk going into a depression over a disease that quiet honestly just isn’t that deadly. If it was a disease like Ebola that had a fatality rate of 60% or something insane like that- sure- shut the shit down.

I think a lot of this hysteria is driven by the media and by people that want to take down Trump. This virus is terrible don’t get me wrong, any amount of people dying is just sad, but I honestly don’t believe it’s as bad as “they” say it is. Millions and millions of people aren’t going to die from this. And millions and millions wouldn’t have died even if they didn’t lock everything down.

China still needs to be dealt with over this however just purely based on the economic damage that this thing is doing and also because of the potential that something a lot worse could come out of those disgusting wildlife wet markets. I don’t get how the CCP didn’t permanently shut down the wet markets after the SARS outbreak in 2003-2004. The damn CCP let them open right back up. Freaking morons.

They're already reopening in China at this very moment.

Actual fatality rate based on a model I've been running is around .6%.  When all is said and done I suspect it'll remain below 1%, but it's much more infectious than flu or SARS or any of the other things it's being compared to, so that still translates to a lot of deaths, depending on total population penetration%.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17625
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #991 on: April 02, 2020, 10:15:34 AM »
California's data isn't very good: https://covidtracking.com/data/state/california#history

The state only appears to have tested 30,000 people. They only appear to be clearing through ~2-3000 tests per day. They keep reporting ~64K "pending" tests and we don't really know what the heck that means.

I say "appear" because it's unclear if they're actually reporting actual number of negative tests correctly, so we don't know if their total number of tests are accurate.

However, based on the hard numbers, they show 215 deaths and 9936 confirmed cases, a case fatality rate of about 2.15%. New York's case fatality rate currently sits at 2.64%.

So unless California is mis-counting deaths for some reason, maybe they're doing a good job?

Or maybe it's about to explode.

Yeah, like I said last night, I'm only looking at deaths and death rates.  Looking at "cases" is completely useless, for all of the reasons you outline above.

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14328
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #992 on: April 02, 2020, 10:19:20 AM »
They're already reopening in China at this very moment.

Actual fatality rate based on a model I've been running is around .6%.  When all is said and done I suspect it'll remain below 1%, but it's much more infectious than flu or SARS or any of the other things it's being compared to, so that still translates to a lot of deaths, depending on total population penetration%.
Are you serious? That is reason enough for the world to declare war on China imo. CCP needs to permanently shut down the wildlife wet markets or the militaries of the world should invade and do it for them. Those wildlife wet markets are a ticking time bomb of bio WMDs.

I think your model is probably right. Under 1% is probably what this thing is actually at.

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #993 on: April 02, 2020, 10:19:29 AM »
what is the actual fatality rate? I believe they are saying it’s under 2% in the US.

But how many millions of people have been exposed to this thing and had little to no symptoms and never got tested. There was a study done by a European country I think it was Sweden or something that suggests that nearly 50% of the people who contract this virus don’t even get sick. 
I think you hit on the key issue here and unfortunately, there just isn't enough data (except maybe in S Korea) to answer this question.  

Early on they were talking ~5% fatality rate.  In our country of, as you said, 350M including everyone that is almost 20M people if everybody gets it.  

My understanding now is that the scary-high fatality rates they talked about early on were based on deaths/confirmed cases.  That, however, was highly flawed because the "confirmed cases" only counts people who actually got tested and tested positive.  With tests being limited to only the cases bad enough to be hospitalized that is a HIGHLY flawed figure because the denominator isn't "all cases", it is actually something more like "all cases bad enough to be hospitalized and tested".  

There is an ENORMOUS difference between:
  • 5% of all cases become fatal and
  • 5% of cases bad enough to require hospitalization and testing become fatal.  

My understanding is that the S Korean's are either already testing everyone or they are getting close to it.  That data could prove extremely informative.  If they test everyone then we should be able to get, from them, the total number of S Koreans that have had it.  Then you can divide S Korean fatalities by S Korean cases and get the ACTUAL fatality rate.  


 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.