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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1274 on: April 05, 2020, 11:09:24 AM »

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1275 on: April 05, 2020, 11:13:34 AM »
Facts do, and always will matter- if your mind is open enough to to see them. 

https://www.health.ny.gov/regulations/task_force/reports_publications/docs/ventilator_guidelines.pdf
here are some facts about New York- from New York.  They were sounding the alarm for Cuomo in 2015.  Very specifically saying your not going to have nearly enough ventilators in the case of a flu- like pandemic.  They even gave an estimate of how many they would be short: 15000.

the report also discusses other factors related to why NYC would be ver susceptible to such a pandemic.

Now- we can certainly form different opinions around these facts.  That is our right thankfully. But there needs to be a baseline of understanding of the facts- and I believe ( my opinion) that much has been said and written in our media that is clearly void of these facts and in some cases in direct contradiction of them.

I would certainly respect your opinion about this report should you choose to read it.
I read this thing. It was chilling, as to how decisions are made on who gets a ventilator and who does not.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1276 on: April 05, 2020, 11:15:26 AM »

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/04/826961777/u-s-may-get-more-ventilators-but-run-out-of-medicine-for-covid-19-patients

I had not realized that patients on ventilators are heavily sedated.
Yeah, they have to be. It's akin to being intubated during surgery, but only after you're out cold. It's much worse though, I'm told.

My DIL is an ER nurse. Hearing her explain it was disturbing.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1277 on: April 05, 2020, 11:25:36 AM »
It makes sense, I had just not thought of it.  I vaguely recall being "unintubated" after surgery and that wasn't pleasant and I was still doped up.

This is a complex problem with a lot of moving parts.

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1278 on: April 05, 2020, 11:36:46 AM »
Yeah, when I had my back surgery I was under for 7.5 hours, and intubated. I had a "sore throat" for a few days afterward.

Some of these patients are so severe though, there isn't time to put them "out" before invading. That's where it's a very tough job for the providers.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1279 on: April 05, 2020, 11:48:51 AM »
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-number-of-daily-covid-19-deaths-in-spain-continues-to-fall-11968826

Some hopeful news, but I don't expect a rate of decline to match the rate of increase.  The decline likely will be much slower with some ups and downs, if this indeed is a decline.

The models seem to show a "normal" curve instead of one that is fattened on the downside.

April 5 already.  We're all hoping for the same things.

Mdot21

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1280 on: April 05, 2020, 12:23:21 PM »
And Congress did NOT "spend the surplus".  That is idiotic. 
Yeah, they essentially did.

The money that comes in from SS and doesn't go right back out on benefits gets spent by Congress. The treasury gives that money to Congress to spend on whatever Congress wants, and the Treasury issues bonds which are nothing but IOU's backed by the "full faith and credit" of the United States government. Congress has to pay those bonds back with interest. Where do they get the money to pay back that interest? From borrowing it from someone else or from raising taxes. It makes absolutely no sense. It is completely asinine. Robbing from Peter to pay Paul. There is an inherent flaw in that system. The US government shouldn't be touching that money to spend on whatever it pleases every year in it's budget. They spend that money and then have to raise more money by borrowing or taxation just to pay interest on that SS money they just spent on buying $940 hammers for the Pentagon.

It would have been far better off investing that surplus money into a diverse array of actual investments. Real estate, stocks, private loans, etc., etc..

There are a lot of other problems with the program. Millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost/shipped overseas and when the program was enacted there was something like 100 workers paying in for every 1 receiving benefits. The number is way down now as jobs have been lost and the population has gotten older and older and the explosion of the baby boomers coming online and claiming the benefit than ever before. Also- when the program was enacted the average life expectancy in the US was 60 years. Now it's pushing 80. People are living a lot longer today and claiming that benefit for a lot longer than ever before. That's also throwing a monkey wrench in the system.

Raise the tax a little bit and remove the cap, and stop letting Congress touch the money and invest the money in actual- you know- investments.

847badgerfan

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Mdot21

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1282 on: April 05, 2020, 01:15:48 PM »
Bill Gates has been warning about viruses for the last decade. All these videos are old. Why can’t someone like him ever run for President? Probably too smart and decent of a human being to run...


https://youtu.be/6Af6b_wyiwI


https://youtu.be/9AEMKudv5p0


https://youtu.be/as9JRKed7Cs

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1283 on: April 05, 2020, 01:51:46 PM »
took me a while to catch up on this thread the past 24 hours

some good discussion as usual

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1284 on: April 05, 2020, 01:52:16 PM »
Raise the tax a little bit and remove the cap
First, @Mdot21 -- I want to give you kudos on an excellent explanation on exactly how Congress has already spent the trust fund. 

However, I ask this regarding removing the cap... If you remove the cap on payroll tax contributions, are you also going to remove the cap on social security benefits? 

Because--if this is an earned benefit related to the amount of money paid into the system, then should those people earning above the cap be accruing additional value over the current maximum benefit? 

The payroll tax cap is ~$130K. The maximum benefit is ~$4K/mo (if you maxed earnings and wait until 70 to retire).

Should someone whose earnings were ~50% higher, say $200K/year, get a ~$6K/mo benefit?

If not, why not?

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1285 on: April 05, 2020, 02:00:44 PM »

Should someone whose earnings were ~50% higher, say $200K/year, get a ~$6K/mo benefit?

If not, why not?
This is why I just refer to it as a tax.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1286 on: April 05, 2020, 02:37:16 PM »
I read this thing. It was chilling, as to how decisions are made on who gets a ventilator and who does not.
You mean the sort of actuarial math and approach that goes into it?

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1287 on: April 05, 2020, 02:41:09 PM »
It simply is false that Congress raided the SSTF and that is why there is a shortfall.  False, completely and utterly false, no matter how many times it is repeated.

 

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