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Topic: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor

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847badgerfan

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2026, 01:09:11 PM »
Blackwell wants to play the point. 

Gard said no. 

Scheyer lied yes.

Rinse and repeat.
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ELA

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2026, 01:20:03 PM »
The funny thing is that the NCAA fought against players unionizing, and now the players would be stupid to unionize

bayareabadger

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2026, 01:36:25 PM »
Blackwell wants to play the point.

Gard said no.

Scheyer lied yes.

Rinse and repeat.
I think some of that is cover and some of it is cope. Doesn’t seem like even if Gard said yes, that would change much, which is fine. 

It’s a little funny that he was more of a “point” as a sophomore. 

bayareabadger

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2026, 01:37:35 PM »
The funny thing is that the NCAA fought against players unionizing, and now the players would be stupid to unionize
It’s also a bit funny that some folks held on too long to the idea the players weren’t worth much. Played themselves. 

847badgerfan

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2026, 01:40:27 PM »
I think some of that is cover and some of it is cope. Doesn’t seem like even if Gard said yes, that would change much, which is fine.

It’s a little funny that he was more of a “point” as a sophomore.
Let's face it. He wanted his bag and Dook gave it to him.

He did play point quite a bit in 24/25, but he wasn't great at it. He's such a tweener. Give him another 2" and he's a great SF.
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SFBadger96

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2026, 01:55:53 PM »
The funny thing is that the NCAA fought against players unionizing, and now the players would be stupid to unionize
As is often the case, the players at the top would be stupid to unionize. There are a lot of guys in the middle and bottom who would do better in a union. Probably easier in basketball than in football, where there are just so many players at such dramatically different levels. BUT...the other issue is medical care and access to education: those are things that even the higher paid guys should want, and that only a union is likely to deliver in a meaningful way. On the other hand, if you're making 7 figures for a couple of years, maybe you just don't care. Especially at age 20.

A good agent would turn down a few extra dollars to get longer term (lifetime?) and better medical, particularly where a blown ACL could bring the whole house of cards down on a 20-year old's head. Maybe that's already happening?

ELA

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2026, 02:05:25 PM »
As is often the case, the players at the top would be stupid to unionize. There are a lot of guys in the middle and bottom who would do better in a union. Probably easier in basketball than in football, where there are just so many players at such dramatically different levels. BUT...the other issue is medical care and access to education: those are things that even the higher paid guys should want, and that only a union is likely to deliver in a meaningful way. On the other hand, if you're making 7 figures for a couple of years, maybe you just don't care. Especially at age 20.

A good agent would turn down a few extra dollars to get longer term (lifetime?) and better medical, particularly where a blown ACL could bring the whole house of cards down on a 20-year old's head. Maybe that's already happening?
And they get it.  Whether they take advantage of it is a different question.  I don't see how players at the bottom would do better.  They just wouldn't do worse

Now would non revenue athletes do better?  Probably, but why would football and basketball players unionize with female divers

847badgerfan

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2026, 02:26:02 PM »
And they get it.  Whether they take advantage of it is a different question.  I don't see how players at the bottom would do better.  They just wouldn't do worse

Now would non revenue athletes do better?  Probably, but why would football and basketball players unionize with female divers
Ask an 18 y/o that question.
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SFBadger96

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2026, 05:17:18 PM »
And they get it.  Whether they take advantage of it is a different question.  I don't see how players at the bottom would do better.  They just wouldn't do worse

Now would non revenue athletes do better?  Probably, but why would football and basketball players unionize with female divers
Unionization for college athletics is probably more complicated than yes union or no union. I don't think football and basketball players would unionize with female divers. I'm not sure that basketball players and football players would want to be part of the same collective bargaining agreement. And why would they have to be? 

CatsbyAZ

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2026, 01:36:40 PM »
So, I’ve heard that as an American sporting event, the NCAA Tournament draws the second highest viewership (and betting) among “casual viewers” (meaning non-sports fans), behind only the Super Bowl.

There seem to be two major viewership draws to the Tournament: 1) A loaded Final Four – meaning matchups between the heavyweights: Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UCLA, North Carolina… AND 2) Upsets.

Pertaining to the 2nd, there are two kinds of upsets: 1) The always rare first round wins by seeds #13/14/15/16:

There were none in 2025 and again none in 2026.

I personally do not believe the very recent lack of upsets by #13/14/15/16 seeds has that much to do with the impact of the TP/NIL. We’re still only a few seasons removed from a #1 Purdue and #2 Arizona going down in Round One. Yes, it’s probably more difficult now, and I might be contradicting myself later in this post, but #13/14/15/16 seeds were already so far removed from realistically being able to win, that the way upsets play out, most often by little regard for the favored team’s massive talent advantage, that by definition, these upsets should still be happening the way they did before. I just think the last two seasons have been a sort of statistical reset, and that soon enough we’ll see more wins by a #15 or #14. FWIW, #3 Virginia looked prone for the upsetting by their #14 opponent this season.

What I think the TP/NIL era chokes off is the second kind of upset we’re used to – the later round upsets often strung together by midrange seeds that allow for a memorable run to the Final Four (or even Elite Eight): #11 George Mason 2006, #11 Butler 2011, #11 VCU 2011, #9 Wichita State 2013, #11 Loyola-Chicago 2018. Their path included major upsets – think a #8 Wisconsin beating #1 Villanova in 2017.

To think this through we must pick a working cutoff between the TP/NIL Haves and Have-nots. I am going to go with a cutoff of sixteen Haves on any given year. This means seeds #1/2/3/4 now have an increased advantage over the rest of the field thanks to the TP/NIL. This would make it that much more difficult for a #8/9 over #1, #7/#10 over #2, or #11 over #6/3 to occur.

In other words, the talent gap between the #1/2/3/4 meaningfully increased over seeds #6/7/8/9/10/11. (I’m treating #5 & #12 like wildcards.) IMO, this increase has more effect than the #1/2/3/4 increasing their talent over their given first round opponents (#13/14/15/16), because their talent advantage over their First Round opponents was and still is too great for a greater increase to be as applicable on court.

However, statistics from the past two tournaments don’t fully support my claim:
-There were no big 1st Round upsets in 2025 and again none in 2026
-#9 Iowa and #11 Texas reached the Elite Eight (2026)

Other points to consider (from 2026 Tournament):
-No mid-majors reached the Sweet 16
-An uncommonly high number of schools in the Sweet 16 also reached last season’s Sweet 16 (can’t remember exact number, but it supports the idea of the Haves sustaining their advantage)
-Three teams were built entirely through the TP: St. John’s, Texas and Michigan

TL; DR: TP/NIL Era increases the advantage for seeds #1/2/3/4, but the effect this has on upsets will be greater against #6/7/8/9/10/11 seeds than #13/14/15/16 seeds.

edit: Texas reached S16
« Last Edit: April 30, 2026, 01:42:36 PM by CatsbyAZ »

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2026, 03:19:27 PM »
2) Upsets.

Pertaining to the 2nd, there are two kinds of upsets: 1) The always rare first round wins by seeds #13/14/15/16:

I personally do not believe the very recent lack of upsets by #13/14/15/16 seeds has that much to do with the impact of the TP/NIL. We’re still only a few seasons removed from a #1 Purdue and #2 Arizona going down in Round One. Yes, it’s probably more difficult now, and I might be contradicting myself later in this post, but #13/14/15/16 seeds were already so far removed from realistically being able to win, that the way upsets play out, most often by little regard for the favored team’s massive talent advantage, that by definition, these upsets should still be happening the way they did before. I just think the last two seasons have been a sort of statistical reset, and that soon enough we’ll see more wins by a #15 or #14. FWIW, #3 Virginia looked prone for the upsetting by their #14 opponent this season.
Interesting posts and I agree with a lot of it but I disagree here.  

I pointed out last year that there were no #13+ upsets but at that time I wasn't ready to jump to the conclusion that TP/NIL had fundamentally altered the status-quo because I felt that there wasn't enough data.  Now with two years of ZERO upsets, I think there is enough data to at least say that *something* changed and the most obvious candidate for the cause is TP/NIL.  

For reference, in the first 29 NCAATs after the 1985 expansion (1985-2024) the #13-16 seeds went 69-555 (.132).  An average of 1.77 of them made it out of the first round each year in a range of 0-4.  The prior instances of zero #13-16 seeds winning occurred in:
  • 1994
  • 2000
  • 2004
  • 2007
  • 2017
Thus, when there were zero in 2025 I suspected that TP/NIL were altering the landscape but I didn't feel that the data was sufficient to prove it because there had been zero #13-16 upsets five times in the past.  Also, since the average per year was slightly under 2, when there were zero in 2025 that was only a difference of 1.77 from the average which *COULD* be explained by random chance.  A funny bounce here or there covers that.  Back-to-back years with no upsets is a different situation.  That NEVER happened before and now (for the two years) there are 3.5 'missing' upsets.  IMHO, that is statistically significant enough to be evidence that *SOMETHING* has changed.  

Here is a chart of the rolling average number of #13-16 upsets:

Three years ago the averages were all at all-time highs:
  • 2.67 average per NCAAT:  From 2021-2023 there were 8 #13-16 upsets.  An all-time high for three NCAATs.  
  • 2.4 average per NCAAT:  From 2018-2023 there were 12 #13-16 upsets.  An all-time high for five NCAATs.  
  • 2.1 average per NCAAT:  From 2013-2023 there were 21 #13-16 upsets.  An all time high for 10 NCAATs.  
  • 2.0 average per NCAAT:  From 2008-2023 there were 30 #13-16 upsets.  An all time high for 15 NCAATs.  
In the three years since all of those have cratered and they are now at or approaching all-time lows.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2026, 03:38:29 PM »
What I think the TP/NIL era chokes off is the second kind of upset we’re used to – the later round upsets often strung together by midrange seeds that allow for a memorable run to the Final Four (or even Elite Eight): #11 George Mason 2006, #11 Butler 2011, #11 VCU 2011, #9 Wichita State 2013, #11 Loyola-Chicago 2018. Their path included major upsets – think a #8 Wisconsin beating #1 Villanova in 2017.

To think this through we must pick a working cutoff between the TP/NIL Haves and Have-nots. I am going to go with a cutoff of sixteen Haves on any given year. This means seeds #1/2/3/4 now have an increased advantage over the rest of the field thanks to the TP/NIL. This would make it that much more difficult for a #8/9 over #1, #7/#10 over #2, or #11 over #6/3 to occur.

In other words, the talent gap between the #1/2/3/4 meaningfully increased over seeds #6/7/8/9/10/11. (I’m treating #5 & #12 like wildcards.) IMO, this increase has more effect than the #1/2/3/4 increasing their talent over their given first round opponents (#13/14/15/16), because their talent advantage over their First Round opponents was and still is too great for a greater increase to be as applicable on court.

However, statistics from the past two tournaments don’t fully support my claim:
-There were no big 1st Round upsets in 2025 and again none in 2026
-#9 Iowa and #11 Texas reached the Elite Eight (2026)

Other points to consider (from 2026 Tournament):
-No mid-majors reached the Sweet 16
-An uncommonly high number of schools in the Sweet 16 also reached last season’s Sweet 16 (can’t remember exact number, but it supports the idea of the Haves sustaining their advantage)
-Three teams were built entirely through the TP: St. John’s, Texas and Michigan
This is an interesting concept and I don't have enough organized data to test it but it wouldn't be all that hard to put it together.  I'm thinking something like a tracking of the number of each seed in the E8.  Then a rolling average over 3, 5, 10, and 15 years because a one-year outlier isn't proof of any change, outliers happen.  However, if the number of say 5+ seeds to make the E8 is meaningfully dropping then that would back up your theory.  

On the surface what you are saying makes sense to me.  For the top teams the TP/NIL is an unmitigated good.  They gain and don't lose.  Think Dook grabbing the guy from Wisconsin or Michigan building a team entirely from the TP as you stated.  I *THINK* that somewhere in the middle there are teams for whom the TP/NIL is basically a wash.  They'll lose a few really high end guys to teams like Dook/M but they'll also fill in some gaps by grabbing guys from lower-level schools.  Then there are the schools at the bottom for whom TP/NIL is an unmitigated bad.  They lose and don't gain.  

MaximumSam

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2026, 08:09:15 PM »
Things move fast. Only 71 people in the NBA draft, down from 363 five years ago. Cash is king. 

Also, why I don't get too excited about making changes based on that. Eventually Congress or somebody will try to regulate the market.

bayareabadger

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Re: OT, CBB, the rich are getting richer relative to the poor
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2026, 07:34:48 AM »

Things move fast. Only 71 people in the NBA draft, down from 363 five years ago. Cash is king.

Also, why I don't get too excited about making changes based on that. Eventually Congress or somebody will try to regulate the market.
That number is, in part, good and in large part is just reflective of the more open transfer situation. 

 

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