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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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ELA

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44324 on: May 01, 2025, 02:17:44 PM »
I could get behind that, but I'd favor 3-4 terms.  12-16 years seems appropriate. 
I've always felt the 2 year terms were more harmful. 
2 year terms are unbelievably stupid in the current era.  Unless you are a legacy, you are campaigning from the second you are voted in

slugsrbad

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44325 on: May 01, 2025, 02:23:13 PM »
Just saw that.  Accountability is a good thing.  Hopefully this tightens it up.  Curious as to how it gets covered

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1918007159826039262?s=46&t=e2ReDV-yjo7MPCzlX2TjVA

ELA

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44326 on: May 01, 2025, 02:36:43 PM »

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1918007159826039262?s=46&t=e2ReDV-yjo7MPCzlX2TjVA
Drain the swamp was always hilarious.  And I don't hate not "draining the swamp."  But, you need experience to navigate DC, and even if you are a total dipshit, I assume you still have friends who can get shit done.  It's why having an idiot like Mike Waltz is valuable.  And that's not a partisan thing, the Democrats have kept plenty of well connected idiots in the fold.  My only weird thing about Hegseth is that he's an "outsider".  Which is nice when you are good at your job.  He appears to be both bad at his job, and if he's actually an "outsider", can't actually help fix the system, outside of apparently cancelling a Trump initiative., that his daughter and Ted Cruz spearheaded

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44327 on: May 01, 2025, 02:44:47 PM »
It's the problem with having no term limits, but short terms.  These people's full time job is getting reelected.

Honestly, you make terms longer, but put it strict term limits, I think you see meaningful change.  It should be the same as President, 4 year terms, with 2 term limits
I know this is an unpopular position as most people both right and left seem to like term limits but they are disastrous for legislators.  

Ohio passed term limits about 20 years ago IIRC.  In Ohio there are 33 State Senators (4 year terms) and 99 State Representatives (2 year terms).  

What people didn't like was that a LOT of the Reps and Senators served forever.  I knew a LOT of Republicans that wanted term limits to get rid of Ohio House Speaker Vern Riffe.  Vern Riffe was a Democrat from Southern Ohio who was in the Ohio House for 18 terms (36 years, 1967-1994) and as Speaker for the last 20 years that he was in the House.  

The first thing that you need to understand about Term Limits is that they limit the power of the elected Representatives and that unavoidably increases the power of unelected bureaucrats, lobbyists, and the parties themselves.  Everyone needs to understand that.  If you say you want Term Limits you have to accept that you are advocating for increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats, lobbyists, and the parties.  Are you ok with that?  Is anyone ok with that?  

In Ohio, before term limits the Representatives were powerful individuals.  Most of them were pretty firmly entrenched (that was what people didn't like) but that meant that they weren't beholden to the parties and special interests.  They *COULD* and sometimes did chart their own course.  Guys like Vern Riffe and my local Representative in that era (a long-term Republican who eventually became speaker) didn't have to answer to the lobbyists or the parties.  They also could and sometimes did curtail bad bureaucrats.  

Today, if I'm a bad bureaucrat I have no fear whatsoever of any Legislator because by the time they figure out that I'm a bad bureaucrat, they are on their way out the door.  None of them can actually take me on in any meaningful way because I KNOW that I'll outlast them.  

The other big change is that the Governor and the Parties are MUCH more powerful than they used to be.  The Governor has appointment power which the Legislators all care about because they need jobs once they are term-limited out.  Same goes for the Parties.  As long as you are a good-D or good-R, your party will find you a spot.  If you aren't, you are out.  Prior to term limits this was a non-issue since you could stay in the Legislature as long as you could get reelected.  

Finally, there are some practical realities that most elected officials could never admit to but that are nonetheless very real.  With the rare (although increasingly less rare) exception of someone who is either a legacy or worked for decades as a Legislative aid/staffer/attorney, there is a steep learning curve for new Reps.  You can watch the "How a Bill becomes Law" video but the reality is a LOT more complex and nuanced.  It takes time to learn the ropes and it takes time to gain enough seniority to actually get anything done.  Then, by the time you get there you have to worry about your next job so you are out anyway.  

Term Limits have been a disaster for Ohio and I've had that same observation shared by people of VERY different ideological stance.  

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44328 on: May 01, 2025, 02:55:59 PM »
One thing I'd like to see happen is the HOR term goes to 4 years. Senate can stay at 6 or go to 4. Whatever.

Also, I'd like for every HOR and Senate member be primaried upon declaring for reelection.

I have a lot of disdain for Lindsey Graham, for example, and I'm sure there are some very qualified conservatives in that state who could beat him.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44329 on: May 01, 2025, 03:01:15 PM »
Hmm.

Hunter Biden Drops Lawsuit Against IRS Employees: 'Afraid to Fight' - Newsweek
Hunter Biden Drops Lawsuit Against IRS Employees: 'Afraid to Fight' - Newsweek
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MikeDeTiger

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MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44332 on: May 01, 2025, 03:11:32 PM »
These people are so full of shit their breath smells like a septic tank. F China.

China turns the tables on the US with wild new Covid-19 origin story
Shiny Happy People
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SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44333 on: May 01, 2025, 04:56:01 PM »
I know this is an unpopular position as most people both right and left seem to like term limits but they are disastrous for legislators. 

Ohio passed term limits about 20 years ago IIRC.  In Ohio there are 33 State Senators (4 year terms) and 99 State Representatives (2 year terms). 

What people didn't like was that a LOT of the Reps and Senators served forever.  I knew a LOT of Republicans that wanted term limits to get rid of Ohio House Speaker Vern Riffe.  Vern Riffe was a Democrat from Southern Ohio who was in the Ohio House for 18 terms (36 years, 1967-1994) and as Speaker for the last 20 years that he was in the House. 

The first thing that you need to understand about Term Limits is that they limit the power of the elected Representatives and that unavoidably increases the power of unelected bureaucrats, lobbyists, and the parties themselves.  Everyone needs to understand that.  If you say you want Term Limits you have to accept that you are advocating for increasing the power of unelected bureaucrats, lobbyists, and the parties.  Are you ok with that?  Is anyone ok with that? 

In Ohio, before term limits the Representatives were powerful individuals.  Most of them were pretty firmly entrenched (that was what people didn't like) but that meant that they weren't beholden to the parties and special interests.  They *COULD* and sometimes did chart their own course.  Guys like Vern Riffe and my local Representative in that era (a long-term Republican who eventually became speaker) didn't have to answer to the lobbyists or the parties.  They also could and sometimes did curtail bad bureaucrats. 

Today, if I'm a bad bureaucrat I have no fear whatsoever of any Legislator because by the time they figure out that I'm a bad bureaucrat, they are on their way out the door.  None of them can actually take me on in any meaningful way because I KNOW that I'll outlast them. 

The other big change is that the Governor and the Parties are MUCH more powerful than they used to be.  The Governor has appointment power which the Legislators all care about because they need jobs once they are term-limited out.  Same goes for the Parties.  As long as you are a good-D or good-R, your party will find you a spot.  If you aren't, you are out.  Prior to term limits this was a non-issue since you could stay in the Legislature as long as you could get reelected. 

Finally, there are some practical realities that most elected officials could never admit to but that are nonetheless very real.  With the rare (although increasingly less rare) exception of someone who is either a legacy or worked for decades as a Legislative aid/staffer/attorney, there is a steep learning curve for new Reps.  You can watch the "How a Bill becomes Law" video but the reality is a LOT more complex and nuanced.  It takes time to learn the ropes and it takes time to gain enough seniority to actually get anything done.  Then, by the time you get there you have to worry about your next job so you are out anyway. 

Term Limits have been a disaster for Ohio and I've had that same observation shared by people of VERY different ideological stance. 
Same for California. On the one hand, I know that people stay too long, but term limits end up limiting effectiveness more than getting more good people into the legislature.

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44334 on: May 01, 2025, 04:57:36 PM »
2 year terms are unbelievably stupid in the current era.  Unless you are a legacy, you are campaigning from the second you are voted in
Also, Congress is all about seniority. In the current system a member has very little of their own power until probably 8-12 years in. It's one of the reasons electing 60-year olds as freshman is a bad idea.

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44335 on: May 01, 2025, 04:58:06 PM »
reasonable limits like 10 or 12 or 15 years - pick a number that's not 2 or 30
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44336 on: May 01, 2025, 08:33:11 PM »
Just saw that.  Accountability is a good thing.  Hopefully this tightens it up.  Curious as to how it gets covered
I covered it with my students today.  We just happened to be starting on politics & media.  We looked at the headlines of the major news outlets, comparing them, even though they were very similar.  Talked about which news outlets skewed towards which party, etc.  Counted the % of favored headlines they'd click to learn more, discussed word choice/font to get clicks, and included algorithms, etc.

It's cool to incorporate sites/headlines/articles that are 4 min old, news as it happens.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #44337 on: May 01, 2025, 09:49:57 PM »
I would support age limits for Federal appointees and electeds.  I'm less sanguine about term limits, but the latter has such a low probability I don't think about it as a practicable solution to anything.  I do think at 70 a person should really be retired.  Maybe some elite scientist somewhere can still make contributions, OK fine.

But in Congress or in the courts?  I don't think so.

 

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