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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43722 on: April 22, 2025, 01:20:50 PM »
MLB took the All Star game out of Atlanta a couple years back because of a new voter law, and moved it to Colorado which arguably has more restrictive voting laws.  This year, they moved it back.  I know this is imaging and trying to read their base, but it looks triply stupid to me.  

I read about the new law and thought it was a combination of "doing something" about a problem that is rare AND not being all that big of a deal anyway.  Part of it is if I vote absentee I have to include my DL number.  Or some equivalent.  I did vote in the last election because I was curious how "early voting" worked, it was quick, easy, no big deal, for me anyway.

Anyway, it's an example of my view of most of the "news" as being imaging and counter-imagining, marketing basically.  Those guys in that other party are HITLER!!!!  Our guys are all great.

We end up in my view with two parties basically coopted by their rather extreme minorities.  I'm basically what I glibly call an extreme moderate.


Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43723 on: April 22, 2025, 01:23:12 PM »
I support trans rights and I support LBGTQ+ in general.  But when it means that people who represent your party are vocally advocating for biological males to be included in women's sports and to be allowed to undress in women's locker rooms, now you're starting to piss off the female feminists who have historically been an important part of your party and your message.  And what's more, the more militant of those folks are calling out women who are espousing classically feminist views, as being close-minded and trans-phobic and then one of the favorite words of the militant left-- "fascist."  It's pretty clear those idiots have no idea what that word even means but they love to throw it around.

This is where I draw the line.  I couldn't care less about anything trans, but IMO the ultimate acceptance they are going to want is to be not distinguished not as "trans" but rather as regular women (or men).  So by definition if you exclude them from women's sports you are not supporting them, and the few that I know will tell you this.  The other kinda funny thing is that a lot of the LBG folks I know loathe anything trans, they hate being lumped in with them, and do not support their agenda at all. 
Now, granted, my sample size is quite small, something on the order of 5-6 folks so I'm just telling it like I see it in my acknowledged bubble. 

I absolutely hate how the media has invented this whole trans controversy, when in reality it is so few of the population yet they seem to have an outsized megaphone.  Which in turn draws more people into it as a lifestyle. 

In truth, I really don't think about this issue much at all.  You do you, and I will do me, and we'll get along just fine no matter what you call yourself.  It's when demands start getting made and things start getting ridiculous when I get mad, and I know it's all just mostly invented bullshit.  Meanwhile, you have to wonder what is really going on behind the curtains with us peasants are distracted with all this circus bullshit. 

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43724 on: April 22, 2025, 01:33:07 PM »

https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1914688895033454905


Stuff like this is why I find it hard to take a lot of democrats seriously.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43725 on: April 22, 2025, 01:37:43 PM »

We end up in my view with two parties basically coopted by their rather extreme minorities.  I'm basically what I glibly call an extreme moderate.

That's fine, just as long as you recognize there's nothing inherently virtuous about being moderate, as being moderate isn't supporting evidence for any of your views.  After effectively saying that people on both sides point to the other side and say "Good thing I'm not that," you might be construed to be pointing to both sides and saying "Good thing I'm not those."  Which of course is just another version of the same thing being critiqued.  

I'm not attacking you, but I see this "moderate" thing thrown around a lot, with implied context that it's superior to being "left" or "right," and that's just a fallacy.  

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43726 on: April 22, 2025, 01:41:31 PM »
That's fine, just as long as you recognize there's nothing inherently virtuous about being moderate, as being moderate isn't supporting evidence for any of your views.  After effectively saying that people on both sides point to the other side and say "Good thing I'm not that," you might be construed to be pointing to both sides and saying "Good thing I'm not those."  Which of course is just another version of the same thing being critiqued. 

I'm not attacking you, but I see this "moderate" thing thrown around a lot, with implied context that it's superior to being "left" or "right," and that's just a fallacy. 
I think a lot of people fall into the same categories as I do when it comes to politics.  For a lot of the "Big Discussions" of the day, I just don't care.  

And sometimes it's for different reasons.  Israel/Hamas?  Just don't care.
Other issues, sometimes I feel like I just don't know enough about them.  Iran Nuclear deal?  Not enough info.  Maybe the best system is where we try to elect the smartest people to roll up their sleeves and dive into this stuff and do what we pay them to do.  

Gigem

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43727 on: April 22, 2025, 01:43:15 PM »
I say this about "elect the smart people" and then I see AOC and MTG who I feel are equally dumb, or Lauren Boebert who comes across like a tramp in glasses and others who I think shouldn't have been elected in the first place.  And lest we forget, Joe "don't know" Biden as POTUS.  

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43728 on: April 22, 2025, 01:47:15 PM »
Often the people who "win" in democracy are the people who show up to make their voice heard. People with an axe to grind are generally the people who show up--that's rarely the "moderates."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43729 on: April 22, 2025, 01:51:18 PM »
My actual views on some topics are not very moderate, but net, I have some conservative views and some liberal, so I don't know what else to call it.  

And I don't think "we" are electing smart people in most cases, just folks who can gin up enough support, and money, from some segment and the rest of the voters get split 50-50.

Why was Biden elected?  A lot of folks were fed up with Trump (and COVID).  Why was Trump reelected?  A lot of folks were fed up with Biden(Harris).  Folks seem to want change, even if it is back to something in the past.  I'd also note these elections really are very close, there has been no "mandate" of any size for a while.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43730 on: April 22, 2025, 02:00:37 PM »

I've promised a rant about the trans issue--and I will deliver--but not today or this week, or even this month. Work is that way right now. Maybe I'll have it ready by Pride weekend.

Just be sure to define all your terms when you do, so no one is confused and talking past each other.

And if you dish it out, be prepared to take it.  Last time somebody mentioned something here you didn't like about that, you told him "Can we just not?  This is really important/personal/triggering to me."  Not your exact words, but it was the point.  Shutting down another person's opinion notwithstanding, it's not like people with an opposing view can't or don't feel as strongly as you do about the issue.  Something tells me you wouldn't want anyone to tell you to just "not" when you produce your rant.  

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43731 on: April 22, 2025, 02:11:50 PM »
Well, you probably don’t want to hear this but ….l..

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43732 on: April 22, 2025, 02:22:25 PM »
I'm not attacking you, but I see this "moderate" thing thrown around a lot, with implied context that it's superior to being "left" or "right," and that's just a fallacy. 
The problem I have with "moderates" is  a definitional issue.   In theory:
  • A Liberal supports higher government spending and the taxation that goes along with that.  
  • A Conservative supports lower taxation and the lower government spending that goes along with that.  
  • A Moderate is in the middle on both spending and taxation.  
In practice in DC today:
  • Liberals support higher government spending and well they aren't too strongly opposed to higher taxes.  
  • Conservatives support lower taxes and well they aren't too strongly opposed to lower spending.  
  • Moderates vote with the liberals to increase spending and vote with the Conservatives to cut taxes.  
Functionally moderates think we can run the government on rainbow dust and unicorn farts.  


bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43733 on: April 22, 2025, 02:22:36 PM »
My actual views on some topics are not very moderate, but net, I have some conservative views and some liberal, so I don't know what else to call it. 

And I don't think "we" are electing smart people in most cases, just folks who can gin up enough support, and money, from some segment and the rest of the voters get split 50-50.

Why was Biden elected?  A lot of folks were fed up with Trump (and COVID).  Why was Trump reelected?  A lot of folks were fed up with Biden(Harris).  Folks seem to want change, even if it is back to something in the past.  I'd also note these elections really are very close, there has been no "mandate" of any size for a while.
Lotta “change” pushes since about 2008.

This last election fascinated me because republican messaging managed to kind of accidentally create an incredibly accepting tent, even with a not very accepting tone (though Democrats outdid them in that last arena)

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43734 on: April 22, 2025, 02:57:51 PM »
That's fine, just as long as you recognize there's nothing inherently virtuous about being moderate, as being moderate isn't supporting evidence for any of your views.  After effectively saying that people on both sides point to the other side and say "Good thing I'm not that," you might be construed to be pointing to both sides and saying "Good thing I'm not those."  Which of course is just another version of the same thing being critiqued. 

I'm not attacking you, but I see this "moderate" thing thrown around a lot, with implied context that it's superior to being "left" or "right," and that's just a fallacy. 
Hmmmm. That’s interesting. 

In some ways, I can see the vague sense that being a moderate comes with traits we generally think are virtuous. Though obviously with politics, most things don’t tightly follow those virtues. 

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43735 on: April 22, 2025, 03:03:10 PM »
That's just one example, but there are others. There's the case of a very vocal minority that come out in support of terrorist organizations like Hamas, that are also doing the party no favors.  But in the name of "inclusiveness" the Democrats have backed themselves into a corner where they sometimes get stuck defending such views and behaviors, which not only makes them easy targets for Republicans but also alienates plenty of people that might otherwise agree with or be sympathetic to the party platform.

I find this interesting because I don’t think it’s really about inclusiveness. It think it’s about fuzzy boundaries that haven’t been well navigated/have been leveraged well by the opposition. 

There’s also a need to be backed that sidetracks the general push, which Republicans have been very deft at avoiding.

 

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