Author
Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
(Read 2973870 times)

SuperMario · « **Reply #40222 on:** November 22, 2024, 03:31:33 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2024, 03:26:45 PM

It could be true if "we" called them illegals back then, and now call them undocumented.

But you're making my point.They're playing with words. Illegals/undocumented/unauthorized.. aka Bullshit ways to play with charts and data. The same garbage they pulled with the unemployment rates in 2008/2009. Point being, that chart doesn't properly reflect the size and quantity of the people that are not in this country in a way that it should be done and that chart making the problem look like a lesser problem than 15 years ago is garbage and misleading.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #40223 on:** November 22, 2024, 03:42:06 PM »

I think hard data are hard to come by. We have "border encounters" below, but that doesn't include folks who crossed and never encountered BP.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #40224 on:** November 22, 2024, 03:45:20 PM »

Donald Trump to target legal immigration, denaturalization in second term

Though that effort is primed to make a big media impact, it’s unlikely to make a statistically significant dent in immigrant populations.

SFBadger96 · « **Reply #40225 on:** November 22, 2024, 04:22:17 PM »

SM, what data do you want to rely on instead?

longhorn320 · « **Reply #40226 on:** November 22, 2024, 04:31:54 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2024, 03:45:20 PM

Donald Trump to target legal immigration, denaturalization in second term

Though that effort is primed to make a big media impact, it’s unlikely to make a statistically significant dent in immigrant populations.

I think improvements are needed in the legal immigration process as well not just illegal immigration

SFBadger96 · « **Reply #40227 on:** November 22, 2024, 04:34:35 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2024, 02:53:18 PM

"The profile" generally is going to be Hispanic looking Spanish speaking individuals (some of whom were born here).

I'm glad someone had the intestinal fortitude to say it.
Of course you don't know what language they speak until you interrupt their day. So going with their Latino looks:

In Wisconsin, that's about 8%, but in New Mexico, it's 50%, and in California it's 40% (the single largest demographic group) of the (~40 million person) population. El Paso? 80%. That's a lot of people to ask for their papers. And by the way, New Mexico, California, and El Paso have always had large Latino populations (indeed, longer than white populations), so we're talking about targeting citizens--but only certain citizens. There's no way around that.

Of course, if you expand it to concern about immigration from the middle east (the attempt to ban immigration from certain Middle Eastern countries wasn't that long ago), Africa, and Asia, these numbers go up. In California only 35% of the population is white/non-hispanic. Again, a lot of people to ask to carry their "papers."

SuperMario · « **Reply #40228 on:** November 22, 2024, 04:46:45 PM »

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 22, 2024, 04:22:17 PM

SM, what data do you want to rely on instead?

I don't know the answer to that, but any dataset showing the immigration problem was worse in 2007 than in 2024 is what i term hot garbage.

So forming an opinion based on data or making an argument using flawed data, is something I'm strongly against. This mentality also helped my family stay far away from incredibly harmful vaccines a few years ago when the data and what our circle of medical friends saw with their own eyes was clearly flawed and hot garbage. Sometimes the eyes are far more accurate than BS data. And when you drive into many communities, it's easy to visually see that the illegal immigration situation is far more problematic than it has been in my lifetime. When discussing this with my grade school friend that is a county assistant prosecutor has echoed the same. So when the data reflects something different from reality, i'll raise my red flag, be a conspiracy and tin foil hat described guy, but stay firm with my belief that the government data is not correct and there's an agenda that isn't best fitting behind that data.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #40229 on:** November 22, 2024, 04:55:46 PM »

Quote from: SuperMario on November 22, 2024, 04:46:45 PM

I don't know the answer to that, but any dataset showing the immigration problem was worse in 2007 than in 2024 is what i term hot garbage.

So forming an opinion based on data or making an argument using flawed data, is something I'm strongly against. This mentality also helped my family stay far away from incredibly harmful vaccines a few years ago when the data and what our circle of medical friends saw with their own eyes was clearly flawed and hot garbage. Sometimes the eyes are far more accurate than BS data. And when you drive into many communities, it's easy to visually see that the illegal immigration situation is far more problematic than it has been in my lifetime. When discussing this with my grade school friend that is a county assistant prosecutor has echoed the same. So when the data reflects something different from reality, i'll raise my red flag, be a conspiracy and tin foil hat described guy, but stay firm with my belief that the government data is not correct and there's an agenda that isn't best fitting behind that data.

Like jobs and crime data we were being fed. Right on SM.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #40230 on:** November 22, 2024, 04:59:44 PM »

Quote from: SuperMario on November 22, 2024, 04:46:45 PM

I don't know the answer to that, but any dataset showing the immigration problem was worse in 2007 than in 2024 is what i term hot garbage.

So forming an opinion based on data or making an argument using flawed data, is something I'm strongly against. This mentality also helped my family stay far away from incredibly harmful vaccines a few years ago when the data and what our circle of medical friends saw with their own eyes was clearly flawed and hot garbage. Sometimes the eyes are far more accurate than BS data. And when you drive into many communities, it's easy to visually see that the illegal immigration situation is far more problematic than it has been in my lifetime. When discussing this with my grade school friend that is a county assistant prosecutor has echoed the same. So when the data reflects something different from reality, i'll raise my red flag, be a conspiracy and tin foil hat described guy, but stay firm with my belief that the government data is not correct and there's an agenda that isn't best fitting behind that data.

This is a humongous problem. In this ongoing immigration debate Max cited a study that allegedly proved that immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than natives. That is the pro-immigrant propaganda just like any study claiming that the immigration problem was worse in 2007 than in 2024. Both are obviously false. Anyone with eyes and a brain can see that. In the case of the crime "study" I've researched it so I know exactly how they concocted their lies. I covered this upthread but what they did was they used FBI Crime data but note that "sanctuary" cities don't inquire about or report on immigrant status. The "study" treated all crimes not reported to have been committed by an immigrant as having been committed by a non-immigrant. The obvious (and intentional) flaw here was that most crimes are committed in large leftist "sanctuary" cities. Thus the study massively understated immigrant crime and massively overstated non-immigrant crime to achieve the desired pro-immigration result.

I KNOW that my little city in one of the lowest immigration counties in one of the lowest immigration states spends around $50k/yr on translators for non-English-speaking defendants at our local Municipal Court. That shows me that there is rampant immigrant crime here in a relatively VERY low immigration area. That is how I KNOW that immigrant crime is a catastrophe. Any "study" that says otherwise is a lie.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #40231 on:** November 22, 2024, 05:01:42 PM »

And on this subject, for those of you on the left who wonder why there is so much suspicion of the 2020 election results, this is your answer. When the state and the media are clearly and obviously lying to us about jobs data, crime data, immigrant crime data, etc you can't expect us to just roll over and believe them on well, anything else.

SFBadger96 · « **Reply #40232 on:** November 22, 2024, 05:04:28 PM »

So the answer is, "I feel like..." I get it, but when talking about macro policies like this, it's an awfully flimsy way to build an argument. I get that there are problems with data sets, but the answer has to revolve around trying to solve those problems, not just disregard all data.

The Heritage data I posted, above, about voter fraud might be my favorite one. Yes, there is voter fraud, but looking at that very consrvative organization's attempt to document it, and you'll see that it is an a near infinitessimal level (and it gets prosecuted).

What if the reason you think there is a bigger immigration problem now than in 2008 is because it's talked about so much more now than it was then? It's like the meme about Gen-X-ers being a lot more worried about quick sand than it turns out we should have been. If it is talked about a lot, it appears to be a bigger problem. But appearances can be deceiving. We all know that. So we turn to data. And yes, it's fair to point out the inadequacies in the data, but there has to be something more than just, "I feel like..."

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #40233 on:** November 22, 2024, 05:04:49 PM »

This issue cracks me up.

We have let immigrants in from all over the world, that were not vetted.

Some are very bad people. Most are not.

Every poll I have seen says the majority in this country favor legal immigration and strongly oppose illegal immigration Some of the bad ones have committed violent and heinous crimes. While those are often over publicized to potentially exaggerate the problem- why does that matter.

If someone you care about is taped and brutally murdered by an illlegal that has already been arrested and released ( in some cases, multiple times) aren’t you going to be incredibly angry and view it as some that could have been prevented? Easily?

So one candidate just ran on cleaning that up. He won. Big.

What else is there ?

SFBadger96 · « **Reply #40234 on:** November 22, 2024, 05:16:19 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 22, 2024, 05:04:49 PM

If someone you care about is taped and brutally murdered by an illlegal that has already been arrested and released ( in some cases, multiple times) aren’t you going to be incredibly angry and view it as some that could have been prevented? Easily?

I'm going to be incredibly angry regardless of whether the person was here legally. I'm going to be incredibly angry if it's by a white guy who was born in Idaho, and even more so if he has been repeatedly arrested and released.

Old, but relevant.

Heck, I am incredibly angry that a bunch of white guys keep taking guns and shooting up schools, bars, churches, grocery stores, Las Vegas, etc., etc., etc., and yet the misinterpreting-the-Second Amendment crowd prevents meaningful changes to our gun laws.

[Drops bomb, walks away, grabs popcorn... :-)]

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #40235 on:** November 22, 2024, 05:57:15 PM »

Quote from: SFBadger96 on November 22, 2024, 05:16:19 PM

I'm going to be incredibly angry regardless of whether the person was here legally. I'm going to be incredibly angry if it's by a white guy who was born in Idaho, and even more so if he has been repeatedly arrested and released.

Old, but relevant.

Heck, I am incredibly angry that a bunch of white guys keep taking guns and shooting up schools, bars, churches, grocery stores, Las Vegas, etc., etc., etc., and yet the misinterpreting-the-Second Amendment crowd prevents meaningful changes to our gun laws.

[Drops bomb, walks away, grabs popcorn... :-)]

Why are you angry when white guys do it?

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.

Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

SuperMario

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

Cincydawg

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

SFBadger96

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

longhorn320

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

SFBadger96

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

SuperMario

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

Honestbuckeye

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

medinabuckeye1

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

medinabuckeye1

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

SFBadger96

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

Honestbuckeye

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

SFBadger96

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

Honestbuckeye

Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out