header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

 (Read 3023910 times)

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31193
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33418 on: June 21, 2024, 12:55:18 PM »
There is concern among some that this will lead to more extreme risk orders (red flag laws) that some consider uncon.
That may be true, but red flag laws can also be good. If a guy is not mentally stable, the guy should not own a firearm. Just one example.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83024
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33419 on: June 21, 2024, 01:17:47 PM »
It's a matter of due process, as I understand the concern.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31193
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33420 on: June 21, 2024, 01:36:16 PM »
It's a matter of due process, as I understand the concern.
That is highly variable these days.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

GopherRock

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2874
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33421 on: June 21, 2024, 01:40:08 PM »
To be fair, Thomas has written that every major due process/14th Amendment decision in the last 70 years has been wrongly decided, so this should not be a surprise.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31193
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33422 on: June 21, 2024, 01:49:12 PM »
That's mostly true. 
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9366
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33423 on: June 22, 2024, 08:13:10 AM »
I agree with this ruling 8-1.

I disagree with the dissent.


Justice Clarence Thomas dissented, writing that “not a single historical regulation justifies that statute at issue.”

“Yet, in the interest of ensuring the Government can regulate one subset of society, today’s decision puts at risk the Second Amendment rights of many more. I respectfully dissent,” Thomas wrote.

Based on the logic of the originalism-heavy decision they’re walking back, Thomas is probably correct.

Granted, I suppose I should be mildly pleased to see a push toward more options for gun control. (Though I might be more libertarian on the topic than a lot of folks here) 

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31193
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33424 on: June 22, 2024, 08:16:10 AM »
Based on the logic of the originalism-heavy decision they’re walking back, Thomas is probably correct.

Granted, I suppose I should be mildly pleased to see a push toward more options for gun control. (Though I might be more libertarian on the topic than a lot of folks here) 
He is for sure correct, but that's not the same as being right in this instance.

I'm mostly all about originalism.

This is an exception. It may not be correct, but it's right.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83024
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33425 on: June 22, 2024, 08:25:44 AM »
One aspect of originalism is to "vote", or decide, on that basis, not whether a policy is right or not.

Otherwise, we get a court making policy.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31193
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33426 on: June 22, 2024, 08:35:39 AM »
One aspect of originalism is to "vote", or decide, on that basis, not whether a policy is right or not.

Otherwise, we get a court making policy.
Congress made the policy. The Court affirmed it. 

The founders probably knew very little about mental health, and simply isolated people who were "crazy" - taking away ALL of their rights.

Think of it that way and the Ruling makes much more sense.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83024
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33427 on: June 22, 2024, 08:42:45 AM »
The ruling does "make sense", that isn't the point.  


847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 31193
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33428 on: June 22, 2024, 09:05:15 AM »
We agree.

When did we stop the "mental institution" thing? 1970's?

My grandmother (father's side) was once confined to one, against her will.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83024
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33429 on: June 22, 2024, 10:25:50 AM »
Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563 (1975), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court in mental health law ruling that a state cannot constitutionally confine a non-dangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by themselves or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 83024
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33430 on: June 22, 2024, 10:28:40 AM »
O'Connor v. Donaldson :: 422 U.S. 563 (1975) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center
O'Connor v. Donaldson :: 422 U.S. 563 (1975) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center

It is pretty easy to see how this could be abused before this decision, and likely was often as not.  And this is the main reason we have so many "crazy homeless people" walking around free.  The police can't "lock them up" for being delusional or schizophrenic or whatever else unless they are clearly a danger.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9366
  • Liked:
Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #33431 on: June 22, 2024, 10:56:23 AM »
He is for sure correct, but that's not the same as being right in this instance.

I'm mostly all about originalism.

This is an exception. It may not be correct, but it's right.
In this case, it's about a domestic abuser (or at least one with a restraining order), which is a concept the founders almost assuredly wouldn't have recognized. 

It's an odd spot because once you start putting in exceptions because they're "right" you shift from originalism to things being a living document. And people have different outlooks at what "right" is. 

If we live in a world with a healthy amount of gun control, this aligns with that. If we want one where there's a broad second amendment and originalist interpretations, it doesn't. And if it's just vibes, that's an unstable way to work through the law. 

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.