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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41860 on: February 14, 2025, 12:53:55 PM »
one of the great SNL sketches. Phil Hartman was the GOAT sketch comedy actor of SNL imo. Norm McDonald was the GOAT Weekend Update anchor. RIP to both legends.
Word, followed both of them Phil on Radio News also was great ,Norm on SNL/Letterman/Blogs RIP
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41861 on: February 14, 2025, 01:10:22 PM »
But what I paid out of pocket back in '18/'19 alone for medical expenses, I would have no problem heading North. Or come on up as they say
they only want your yankee money.  they don't give a damn for you
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41862 on: February 14, 2025, 01:13:36 PM »
I have mixed feelings about dual citizenship. My brother should have it. He's lived in Austria for going on 20 years and has an Austrian family. He's at least part Austrian now. But he's also still very much American. In that situation, it makes sense to me (he doesn't actually have dual citizenship yet). But I get annoyed at people I know who get Irish citizenship because they have relatively recent Irish heritage, but they've only ever been there as tourists. Particularly the "if it gets worse, I'll just leave" crowd (and the "I don't want to be seen as a dumb American" crowd). First, it's unlikely that any of them would actually ever leave--it's just a silly statement to the world--and second, how about working to make it better? (Similarly, how about trying to show the world that you are not a dumb American?)


What did I tell you about saying stuff I agree with?  

I swear, keep this up and I'll have Badger lock this thing back up.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41863 on: February 14, 2025, 01:32:43 PM »
It's tough to watch us throw out the baby with the bathwater, but I do agree there's a lot that needs to change. Hopefully we can eventually get the pendulum to swing back a bit and exert some common sense.

I think that's what's likely to happen.  As far as I can ascertain, the administration has hit the pause button on a lot of stuff (and some federal judges have also hit the "resume" button on some of it, at least for now), not the "stop" button.  I believe the plan, and what is likely to happen, is that there will eventually be some stuff brought back.  Hopefully your cousin will be part of that.

It's pretty routine for audits in the private sector to hit giant pause buttons, so I don't yet have concerns that some good stuff can't be brought back.  

Also.....I know this will be massively unpopular here and would cause many to brand me a leftist, which.......if you knew me, lolz.....but even the crazy stuff we hear about, which I have no doubt is true, appears to have had a point beyond the simple "leftists spreading ideology everywhere" and "waste as much money in as many ways as we can think to do it."  Mind you, I'm not claiming that the stuff is moral, ethical, defensible, or that it should continue.  Quite the opposite.  Just that the people responsible, in their utilitarian mindsets, had long-term goals they think all that junk helped, and it might have.  Whether or not those goals were good ones is another topic, as is the point I'd make that spreading evil crap to do some long-term good for your country is not necessarily an ethical way to operate.  All I'm saying is, I think all the stuff that sounds insane and makes us wonder how in the world, and why in the world....is more complicated than "Because they're crazy" or "because they're leftists" or "because they want to see America broke and failed."   

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41864 on: February 14, 2025, 02:01:44 PM »
I have a good friend in Uganda (he's a Catholic Priest) and he is doing great things for his people, relative to education and clean water (among other things), through a charity he set up with other friends of mine.

Anyway, I bring this up because he says most, if not all, aid meant for purposes like this ends up in the hands of the tyrant government there - never making it to the people.

And Uganda is not alone in this.

Charities--particularly Christian ones--do more for the poor around the world than any government program ever has or ever will.  And I'm not talking about any spiritual benefit, only tangible food/shelter/resources aid.  

No shortage of data that the US has been the most generous society the world has ever seen as far as donating to charities and causes that help the underprivileged home and abroad.  And the $ donated to the various private and church-led organizations mostly doesn't wind up with the tyrant government.  

I have family and friends who tell me people who think like me and talk about the economy and purchasing power so much don't care for the poor.  That I should be okay with a lot of government imposition on me if I really cared about the poor.  On the contrary, I tell them there is no better indicator of US giving and helping the poor than the strength of our economy, and when we get taxed into oblivion or it's hard to get jobs, that's what hurts the poor the most.  Cuz our gub'ment is just gonna mostly hand it to the gub'ment of a corrupt nation whose citizens are impoverished for that very reason. 

If you want to hurt the poor, hurt our ability to donate and give, drive up energy prices with environmental bs, and drive up inflation so that the people who can least afford it are hurt first/worst.  

Mdot21

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41865 on: February 14, 2025, 02:18:56 PM »
called it....Trump admin is canceling the $400 million armored EV contract the Biden administration awarded to Tesla. Trump gives zero shits about EVs and the environment, he's all drill baby drill all day long.

of course that didn't stop god awful news media like MSNBC or NPR from reporting lies....which is just reason 5,696,006,949 why the public hates them and distrusts them and doesn't believe a word they say...

And for future reference- hate to break it to any shitlibs, TDS'ers, or Elon haters- but if the US government is awarding contracts for things like EVs, satellite internet systems, tunneling/boring, and rocket launches - well Elon Musk's companies are probably going to win almost all those contracts by default and would win them regardless of his role in the Trump administration. His companies are best in class in their fields and/or literally the only game in town in their fields.


https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1890459477230379458

ELA

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SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41867 on: February 14, 2025, 02:46:15 PM »
No shortage of data that the US has been the most generous society the world has ever seen as far as donating to charities and causes that help the underprivileged home and abroad.  And the $ donated to the various private and church-led organizations mostly doesn't wind up with the tyrant government. 
I'm curious your support for the last sentence here. Americans are very generous, and by at least some credible estimates, we do send more foreign charitable aid through charities than through our federal government. But most of the NGOs have to at least play ball with the local governments to be allowed to operate at all. So I'm curious what the support is for the idea that private charity is less likely to end up confiscated by warlords than government aid. (That was a nod to that SNL skit--agreed, it's a classic.)

The tie between religion and charity is a fascinating one. A significant portion of US charitable giving goes to operating churches (as opposed to those churches providing direct assistance to the needy). BUT we still give a huge amount to direct aid (including through churches--which is a modestly higher number than through secular direct aid orgnizations). AND people who give money at church are statistically more likely to also give money to other causes (both secular and non-secular). So although a significant portion of US charitable giving is merely paying for the operating expenses of churches, there is a very strong correlation between that and charitable giving that provides direct aid (again, secular and non-secular). 

BUT there are also limits to that charitable giving. If charitable aid was so much better or efficient than government aid at doing things like addressing poverty, than presumably we wouldn't really need government aid. But we do. The power of taxation is simply much more powerful than the power of voluntary giving.

Also, traditionally (and unsurprisingly) the wealthy have been the biggest source of charitable giving, but the tax changes during the first Trump administration substantially reduced the amount that the wealthy could write off as tax deductions, with the predictable effect of reducing the amount of giving from the wealthy. So if we really believe that charitable giving is more efficient than the government at distributing aid, we should eliminate that aspect of the tax code.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41868 on: February 14, 2025, 02:48:10 PM »

https://twitter.com/JeremiahDJohns/status/1890459046945128580
This is the most concerning thing of the new Administration.  My view from VERY far away is that Adams is pretty clearly corrupt.  

However, even on this, I think the real story may be a lot more complex than what we are being fed.  It isn't like Adams is some MAGA Hat wearing Republican, far from it.  Adams is a Democrat and a pretty far left one at that (at least on a National scale, probably not 'far left' by NYC standards).  So I'm really just not sure what is going on here.  It did seem that Biden's DoJ went after him ONLY after he pushed back against all the illegals his City was being asked to provide for so I DO suspect that the initial prosecution was somewhat politically motivated even if it was legitimate (in a sort-of they'd look they other way if he were a team player but once he stepped out of line they dropped the hammer way).  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41869 on: February 14, 2025, 02:55:14 PM »
I haven't followed that closely enough to know what the actual evidence against Adams looks like, but I do find it suspicious that suits were filed against him shortly after he openly spoke out against the previous administration's agenda as it related to stuff going on in NYC. 

I've heard one person I mostly trust say the evidence against him is credible and another say it's bs.

Assuming they were legit charges, I have to wonder, is this like police officers letting offenders go so they can be informants?  Like, "We'll drop the charges, but you make sure that NYC isn't fighting us on ICE, DEI, and other stuff."  I'd have to know way more about the severity of the charges, credibility of the charges, and the utility of using him in that way to have an opinion about that.  Also, I assume there's some kind of legal provision for letting criminal offenders go in those situations, whereas I have no idea if anything like that applies to mayors. 

And, I'm not saying that's what's happening.  Just a possibility that makes reasonable sense to me.  

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41870 on: February 14, 2025, 02:55:58 PM »
Sassoon and Scotton are the kinds of people the Republicans groom for high-ranking legal positions/judgeships. This is just one thing, but it should get people's attention. It probably won't.

Setting all that aside, that's a solid bridge-burning resignation. Those last four sentences...well done.

Because I can't resist, imagine the strength of conviction that these two, conservative, Republican prosecutors must have in the righteousness of the prosecution against Adams that they are willing to throw away exceedingly bright career prospects over this. 

To be fair, they will immediately get hired in private practice where they will make a great deal more money than they do now (or did until just now), but that was always true if they resigned, whether over some principaled stand, or just because they wanted a bigger house and fancier cars.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2025, 03:03:05 PM by SFBadger96 »

ELA

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41871 on: February 14, 2025, 02:58:38 PM »
It's a total quid pro quo that Trump's own appointees don't feel comfortable going with.  Eventually some Fordham law clerk is going to find themselves as the lead prosecutor for the SDNY after everyone above them refuses to be complicit in this.

And honestly, they didn't need to do it.  All this does is make their job easier.  It doesn't allow them to do things they otherwise couldn't.  They could still do it, it might just take longer, for zero political gain.  All of the other noise is just that, noise.  he is very good at keeping you focused on the left hand, while the right hand does real work.  He changed the name of a mountain back to what it was.  Whatever.  he changed the name of the Gulf of Mexico.  That keeps the "resistance" occupied with a lot of nothingness.  But this is actually concerning.  

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41872 on: February 14, 2025, 02:58:42 PM »
This is the most concerning thing of the new Administration.  My view from VERY far away is that Adams is pretty clearly corrupt. 

However, even on this, I think the real story may be a lot more complex than what we are being fed.  It isn't like Adams is some MAGA Hat wearing Republican, far from it.  Adams is a Democrat and a pretty far left one at that (at least on a National scale, probably not 'far left' by NYC standards).  So I'm really just not sure what is going on here.  It did seem that Biden's DoJ went after him ONLY after he pushed back against all the illegals his City was being asked to provide for so I DO suspect that the initial prosecution was somewhat politically motivated even if it was legitimate (in a sort-of they'd look they other way if he were a team player but once he stepped out of line they dropped the hammer way). 
FWIW, everything I’ve read about Adams never painted him as pretty far left. Seemed like more a creature of NY Democratic politics without a ton of strong ideological anchoring.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #41873 on: February 14, 2025, 03:03:06 PM »
I think that's what's likely to happen.  As far as I can ascertain, the administration has hit the pause button on a lot of stuff (and some federal judges have also hit the "resume" button on some of it, at least for now), not the "stop" button.  I believe the plan, and what is likely to happen, is that there will eventually be some stuff brought back.  Hopefully your cousin will be part of that.

It's pretty routine for audits in the private sector to hit giant pause buttons, so I don't yet have concerns that some good stuff can't be brought back. 

Also.....I know this will be massively unpopular here and would cause many to brand me a leftist, which.......if you knew me, lolz.....but even the crazy stuff we hear about, which I have no doubt is true, appears to have had a point beyond the simple "leftists spreading ideology everywhere" and "waste as much money in as many ways as we can think to do it."  Mind you, I'm not claiming that the stuff is moral, ethical, defensible, or that it should continue.  Quite the opposite.  Just that the people responsible, in their utilitarian mindsets, had long-term goals they think all that junk helped, and it might have.  Whether or not those goals were good ones is another topic, as is the point I'd make that spreading evil crap to do some long-term good for your country is not necessarily an ethical way to operate.  All I'm saying is, I think all the stuff that sounds insane and makes us wonder how in the world, and why in the world....is more complicated than "Because they're crazy" or "because they're leftists" or "because they want to see America broke and failed." 
A massive problem for conservatives in general is that leftists generally don't see this kind of thing as "ideological" but rather as "doing the right thing".  This has downstream consequences in a LOT of ways.  

Example #1:
I do a lot of work in a local service club (we've discussed this here before, I was trying to get @Cincydawg to join the chapter local to him).  As is typical for an organization of that sort, we are VERY careful to be politically neutral at all times.  We absolutely DO NOT want to be seen as either a Republican/Conservative club or as a Democrat/Liberal club.  

It is never really a problem to get Republibans/Conservatives to "check their politics at the door" because they (we myself included) understand that pushing our political ideology through the club would be detrimental to the goals of the club.  On the contrary, the Democrats/Liberals frequently need to be reminded that pushing pro-immigration or pro-Alphabet People items IS ideological.  They simply do not see it as ideological, to them it is right vs wrong.  

Example #2:
A lady here in my town was making some political point and in the process of it she was trying to demonstrate her openness with the statement that she would allow political signs from anyone "except Trumpers".  You have to understand here that the implication was that all were welcome except those (play evil music here) "EVIL TRUMP SUPPORTERS".  This was said as if "Trump Supporters" were some fringe group . . .

That fringe group got a plurality by 1.5% and was only 0.2% shy of an outright majority nationally.  And locally to me it is even bigger.  My County voted roughly 2:1 for Trump and my City roughly 3:2.  So what she implicitly referred to as a 'fringe group' makes up half of the Country, three-fifths of the City, and two-thirds of the County.  

I do not know who coined this phrase but there is a lot of truth to it:
Republicans see Democrats as misguided, Democrats see Republicans as evil.  

That was a long explanation but to comprehend how these things end up being done, you have to understand that the liberal who approved "lesbian art for Afghani Women", "Which pronoun should I choose", or whatever doesn't think of that as an ideological stance on which reasonable people can disagree.  They view it as a matter of good vs evil.  

 

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