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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40124 on: November 22, 2024, 09:35:26 AM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on November 22, 2024, 09:29:31 AM
But sweeping a hoax hate crime under the rug effectively saves you money. Prosecuting it and jailing the guy was/is far more expensive.

I would disagree with that last part, because it is not capable of being perfect. And because of that, it will either side on a kind of harshness that causes all sorts of problems, or a kind of lenience that bothers a great many people. And it often will do both and no one will be happy. that’s the only way it works.
1. Trying to sweep it under the rug made it MUCH more expensive in the long run.

2. Just apply the laws. Liberal justices? Conservative justices? Gimme a break. The law is the law.
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FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40125 on: November 22, 2024, 09:43:35 AM »
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bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40126 on: November 22, 2024, 09:50:27 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2024, 09:35:26 AM
1. Trying to sweep it under the rug made it MUCH more expensive in the long run.

2. Just apply the laws. Liberal justices? Conservative justices? Gimme a break. The law is the law.
Could’ve saved a lot skipping the unconstitutional prosecution and all the appeals of that.

And certainly you know the procedural and structural issues and challenges of just applying the law. But if we want to, we can aggressively apply due process and drastically limit pre-trial detention. We’re applying  “innocent until proven guilty”! Certainly won’t get pushback there.
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SuperMario

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40127 on: November 22, 2024, 09:54:02 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on November 21, 2024, 05:52:36 PM
You know... I drink. Sometimes probably more than I should.

But I figured in Thailand, I had to keep it at the level where I still had my wits...
Back in '05-'07 there was a new airline in that area called Tiger Air. Similar to a Spirit, Allegiant, etc. I could snag round trip tickets from Singapore to Thailand for $49, which lead to a couple dozen weekend trips, almost all outside a couple to the beach resorts.. Almost every occasion i felt i needed to keep the drinking moderate. This was the one instance that slipped. What has always been most entertaining is the Hangover movie always reminds me of that night. It also helped me get it out of my system so there was no repeat nights and no questioning if I should have lived on the edge more. 
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40128 on: November 22, 2024, 09:54:55 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2024, 09:35:26 AM
1. Trying to sweep it under the rug made it MUCH more expensive in the long run.
Only because people had a big vendetta, not because of any particular want of justice. He paid 10 grand and did community service, which seems like a fair resolution for a stupid case.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40129 on: November 22, 2024, 09:55:26 AM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on November 22, 2024, 09:50:27 AM
Could’ve saved a lot skipping the unconstitutional prosecution and all the appeals of that.

And certainly you know the procedural and structural issues and challenges of just applying the law. But if we want to, we can aggressively apply due process and drastically limit pre-trial detention. We’re applying  “innocent until proven guilty”! Certainly won’t get pushback there.
I'd be fine with that, so long as it is open season (depending on the charges) should the subject attempt to flee. That would certainly save a lot of money.
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847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40130 on: November 22, 2024, 09:59:31 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on November 22, 2024, 09:54:55 AM
Only because people had a big vendetta, not because of any particular want of justice. He paid 10 grand and did community service, which seems like a fair resolution for a stupid case.
Stupid on the part of the person who committed the crime, yes. Faking a hate crime to incite division is very serious. You don't seem to mind this, which is problematic to me.

The only vendetta was his. He faked a crime because his career was tanking. This got him on TV and a lot of dumb people, including the woman who just lost to a reality TV host, rallied behind him.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40131 on: November 22, 2024, 10:03:48 AM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on November 22, 2024, 09:29:31 AM
But sweeping a hoax hate crime under the rug effectively saves you money. Prosecuting it and jailing the guy was/is far more expensive.

I would disagree with that last part, because it is not capable of being perfect. And because of that, it will either side on a kind of harshness that causes all sorts of problems, or a kind of lenience that bothers a great many people. And it often will do both and no one will be happy. that’s the only way it works.
It certainly isn't cheaper in the long run. The Cook Crook County Taxpayers paid for ridiculous amounts of OT because Foxx stupidly bought Smollet's ridiculous story hook-line-and-sinker so they had to scour the area for the attackers.  That costs LOTS of money and not prosecuting Smollet sufficiently just encourages more of the same.  

I get the double-jeopardy thing but:
  • Smollet was never truly in "jeopardy" the first time since he had a politically favorable "prosecutor", and
  • Allowing said politically favorable "prosecutor" to drop the charges was a travesty of justice.  

Hate Hoaxes should be prosecuted harshly because they don't just impact an individual, they impact society.  They are an effort to divide people and stoke hatred.  
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40132 on: November 22, 2024, 10:04:59 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on November 22, 2024, 09:43:35 AM
[img width=230.98 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/UPdchwN.png[/img]
A Preacher, a Priest, and a Rabbit walk into a bar.  Bartender looks at the Rabbit and says "What blood type are you?"  Rabbit says, "I think I'm a type-O".  
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MaximumSam

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40133 on: November 22, 2024, 10:05:18 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 22, 2024, 09:59:31 AM
Stupid on the part of the person who committed the crime, yes. Faking a hate crime to incite division is very serious. You don't seem to mind this, which is problematic to me.

The only vendetta was his. He faked a crime because his career was tanking. This got him on TV and a lot of dumb people, including the woman who just lost to a reality TV host, rallied behind him.
Well, it was a lot less serious than what Trump did, and plenty of people don't mind that. But for Jussie, he came out a big laughingstock, so I don't think the criminal justice system needed to waste everyone's time and money to do ... nothing.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40134 on: November 22, 2024, 10:10:07 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on November 22, 2024, 09:54:55 AM
Only because people had a big vendetta, not because of any particular want of justice. He paid 10 grand and did community service, which seems like a fair resolution for a stupid case.
If you are alleging that the case against Smollet was "stupid" you are so biased that you can't see straight.  Smollet wasted a humongous amount of taxpayer dollars with his hate hoax.  It isn't stupid to prosecute that.  

The money though is really a secondary issue.  Hate hoaxes are an attack on our society.  They are an effort to stoke hatred and divide people.  They are also an effort to influence elections and subvert the will of the people.  

I also believe that they are more common than actual hate crimes.  Look at all the big ones:
  • UVA Rape case reported by Rolling Stone.  Hoax.  
  • Duke LaCrosse Rape case.  Hoax.  
  • Smollet's preposterous story.  Hoax.  

The problem is economic.  Demand exceeds supply.  One party needs vast amounts of racism to keep their voters onboard but there simply isn't enough so they have to dream up "microagressions", "structural racism", and hate hoaxes to keep things rolling.  

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40135 on: November 22, 2024, 10:10:27 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on November 22, 2024, 10:04:59 AM
A Preacher, a Priest, and a Rabbit walk into a bar.  Bartender looks at the Rabbit and says "What blood type are you?"  Rabbit says, "I think I'm a type-O". 
How do you catch a unique rabbit? 

Unique up on it. 

----------

How do you catch a tame rabbit? 

Tame way.
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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40136 on: November 22, 2024, 10:20:47 AM »
I'm struggling to understand how any "mass deportation" is feasible.  I'm sure we'll hear about it more, but whether it gets into the tens of millions ... I don't think so.  I suspect "they" will have some highly publicized deportations of hundreds, thousands maybe, and then it sort of dies away as a thing.  Tens of millions?  I don't think there is any chance at all.

For one thing, under current law as I understand it, just BEING here is not illegal, even if you over stayed your visa, or snuck on one time.  Then there is the issue of determining who is here "illegally", I don't know how they can do that.  Sure, for those who ran afoul of other laws, have at it.

I would favor a different approach.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #40137 on: November 22, 2024, 10:30:40 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 22, 2024, 10:20:47 AM
I'm struggling to understand how any "mass deportation" is feasible.  I'm sure we'll hear about it more, but whether it gets into the tens of millions ... I don't think so.  I suspect "they" will have some highly publicized deportations of hundreds, thousands maybe, and then it sort of dies away as a thing.  Tens of millions?  I don't think there is any chance at all.

For one thing, under current law as I understand it, just BEING here is not illegal, even if you over stayed your visa, or snuck on one time.  Then there is the issue of determining who is here "illegally", I don't know how they can do that.  Sure, for those who ran afoul of other laws, have at it.

I would favor a different approach.
Hammering employers for failing to verify is probably sufficient in most cases.  Then a lot of the rest will just "self-deport".  
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