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Topic: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost

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bayareabadger

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #798 on: December 16, 2020, 01:16:52 PM »
Yeah, he'd basically be Earl Bruce in that scenario.
True, but they didn’t fire Earl Bruce until it actually hit the fan.

bayareabadger

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #799 on: December 16, 2020, 01:22:23 PM »
The Florida job put UM in the hospital.  Is that rabid enough?  Spurrier left because ending the year ranked 3rd with an Orange Bowl blowout win wasn't enough for the fanbase, because the Gators didn't win the SEC or Nat'l titles. 
Ehh, Urban put Urban in the hospital, and Steve went to get a better job.

I don’t know it put that job higher than fourth or fifth in the old SEC. Bama fans will buy you into NCAA trouble. Arkansas fans will go through you’re texts. Tennessee fans will get Derek Dooley a top-10 class.And that’s not even touching A&M fans and those folks at Auburn.

Spurrier did benefit from being around pre recruiting rankings. He was slack there, but the state produced and he was brilliant. Of folks back then knew how he rolled, oh boy. (Granted, UF has had back to back so-so recruiters now)

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #800 on: December 16, 2020, 01:26:56 PM »
True, but they didn’t fire Earl Bruce until it actually hit the fan.
That's true of about every HC that they have had since Paul Brown.
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #801 on: December 16, 2020, 01:35:20 PM »
Ehh, Urban put Urban in the hospital, and Steve went to get a better job.

I don’t know it put that job higher than fourth or fifth in the old SEC. Bama fans will buy you into NCAA trouble. Arkansas fans will go through you’re texts. Tennessee fans will get Derek Dooley a top-10 class.And that’s not even touching A&M fans and those folks at Auburn.

Spurrier did benefit from being around pre recruiting rankings. He was slack there, but the state produced and he was brilliant. Of folks back then knew how he rolled, oh boy. (Granted, UF has had back to back so-so recruiters now)
Spurrier didn't obsess over recruiting because he didn't need to.  In the 90s, Tennessee was always beating us in February, but we always seemed to win in September.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #802 on: December 16, 2020, 01:37:13 PM »
So, what are the odds broadly speaking that the FNG does any better than the guy your fired and are still paying not to coach?

FearlessF

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #803 on: December 16, 2020, 01:57:34 PM »
maybe 10-20%

Mack Brown was a good hire at UNC

Herm Edwards did better than most expected at ASU

maybe 5%?
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bayareabadger

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #804 on: December 16, 2020, 02:19:54 PM »
Spurrier didn't obsess over recruiting because he didn't need to.  In the 90s, Tennessee was always beating us in February, but we always seemed to win in September. 
Didn't need to have undefeated seasons either. 

Let me put it this way, if we were in an era when you could see Tennessee beating them every year in Feb, with the relaxed attitude he took on that front, it would be an issue for a super crazy fanbase. I think Steve approached the sport in a healthier way than most, but we were talking about fanbases that by nature are not healthy. 

Temp430

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #805 on: December 16, 2020, 02:43:49 PM »
Genuine question, not trying to flame:  Is there still bad blood between Hart and Harbaugh?  Didn't Hart take some kind of shot at Harbaugh once?  I think it was LONG ago so maybe not an issue, just curious. 
No idea but I’d love to see Hart coaching RBs at Michigan. Not likely to happen because Harbaugh’s son is coaching RBs the last two years.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #806 on: December 16, 2020, 02:47:12 PM »
Only if he lost to them a lot.  It made it funnier to thoroughly out-coach them with "lesser" talent.  I think the rabid fans freak out when the results don't align with the recruiting rankings.  Like recent Tennessee - recruiting more than 1 top 10 class and sucking ass - that'll rile them up.  
But by Spurrier never underperforming vs his perceived talent level brought in, he side-stepped that.  You may be right, but I just am having trouble picturing it.  He's revered.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #807 on: December 16, 2020, 02:53:30 PM »
Didn't need to have undefeated seasons either.

Let me put it this way, if we were in an era when you could see Tennessee beating them every year in Feb, with the relaxed attitude he took on that front, it would be an issue for a super crazy fanbase. I think Steve approached the sport in a healthier way than most, but we were talking about fanbases that by nature are not healthy.
Another thing that helped Spurrier there is that Florida didn't have all that much success pre-Spurrier.  A coach at Florida today is going to be compared to Spurrier and Meyer just like a coach at Bama or tOSU is going to be compared to Bear and Saban or Woody and Meyer.  

Per Wiki, Florida has won:
  • 3 NC's:  96, 06, 08
  • 8 SEC Titles:  91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 00, 06, 08
Steve Spurrier started coaching them in 1990 prior to which their trophy case contained his Heisman trophy and not much else.  No NC's, no SEC titles.  

I don't think Florida fans had nearly the level of expectations back in 1990 that they have now.  Think about that for a minute, Florida's first five SEC titles came in a six year period of Spurrier's 2nd through 7th years.  Spurrier's Gators also had the best record in the SEC in his first year, 1990 but they were ineligible due to NCAA violations by the previous regime.  

In Spurrier's first seven years as coach at UF they:
  • Won five SEC titles
  • Finished first but ineligible once
  • Went to the inaugural SECCG and lost by a TD to the eventual NC Bama
  • Won their first NC

That would be a wildly impressive first seven years at an already established "helmet" program.  To do that at a program that had as little pre-1990 history as Florida did is just unbelievable.  

The first two polls of 1990 were conducted before Florida played a game.  They were unranked in both.  On September 8, 1990 they hosted OkSU in a battle of unranked teams.  That was the last time Florida fans watched their team take the field unranked until October 19, 2002.  

From the dawn of the AP Poll in 1936 until Spurrier was hired UF had:
  • 196 total AP appearances (29.3% of 670 polls)
  • 58 top-10 appearances (8.7% of 670 polls)
  • 1 #1 appearance (0.1% of 670 polls)
In Spurrier's 12 years they had:
  • 201 total AP appearances (99% of 203 polls and the only two they missed were before they played a game)
  • 177 top-10 appearances (87.2% of 203 polls)
  • 24 #1 appearances (11.8% of 203 polls)

That changes expectations a LOT!


MrNubbz

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #808 on: December 16, 2020, 03:28:11 PM »
there isn't a more crazy fan base in CFB the BIG than OSU.
FIFY,SEC has more than a few
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #809 on: December 17, 2020, 09:26:46 AM »
Another thing that helped Spurrier there is that Florida didn't have all that much success pre-Spurrier.  A coach at Florida today is going to be compared to Spurrier and Meyer just like a coach at Bama or tOSU is going to be compared to Bear and Saban or Woody and Meyer. 

Per Wiki, Florida has won:
  • 3 NC's:  96, 06, 08
  • 8 SEC Titles:  91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 00, 06, 08
Steve Spurrier started coaching them in 1990 prior to which their trophy case contained his Heisman trophy and not much else.  No NC's, no SEC titles. 

I don't think Florida fans had nearly the level of expectations back in 1990 that they have now.  Think about that for a minute, Florida's first five SEC titles came in a six year period of Spurrier's 2nd through 7th years.  Spurrier's Gators also had the best record in the SEC in his first year, 1990 but they were ineligible due to NCAA violations by the previous regime. 

In Spurrier's first seven years as coach at UF they:
  • Won five SEC titles
  • Finished first but ineligible once
  • Went to the inaugural SECCG and lost by a TD to the eventual NC Bama
  • Won their first NC

That would be a wildly impressive first seven years at an already established "helmet" program.  To do that at a program that had as little pre-1990 history as Florida did is just unbelievable. 

The first two polls of 1990 were conducted before Florida played a game.  They were unranked in both.  On September 8, 1990 they hosted OkSU in a battle of unranked teams.  That was the last time Florida fans watched their team take the field unranked until October 19, 2002. 

From the dawn of the AP Poll in 1936 until Spurrier was hired UF had:
  • 196 total AP appearances (29.3% of 670 polls)
  • 58 top-10 appearances (8.7% of 670 polls)
  • 1 #1 appearance (0.1% of 670 polls)
In Spurrier's 12 years they had:
  • 201 total AP appearances (99% of 203 polls and the only two they missed were before they played a game)
  • 177 top-10 appearances (87.2% of 203 polls)
  • 24 #1 appearances (11.8% of 203 polls)

That changes expectations a LOT!


But he should have recruited harder!  LOL
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #810 on: December 17, 2020, 09:28:07 AM »
To be specific, Florida had won the 1984 SEC  championship, but it was voted away after rules violations.  And then again in 85, the Gators finished in first, but weren't eligible.  

Cheating!  It works!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #FireHarbaugh - #FireFrost
« Reply #811 on: December 17, 2020, 10:28:15 AM »
To be specific, Florida had won the 1984 SEC  championship, but it was voted away after rules violations.  And then again in 85, the Gators finished in first, but weren't eligible. 

Cheating!  It works!
LoL.  

Even if you counted both of those, Spurrier still won their 3rd through 8th in his first seven years, amazing!  
But he should have recruited harder!  LOL
I get where you are coming from, but my point is that UF's fanbase would NOT be as forgiving about that now as they were in the 1990's when Spurrier was giving them their first taste of the promised land.  When you have never won an NC and your only two best finishes in the SEC were a vacated title and an ineligible year and your HC is winning SEC titles every year and competing for NC's almost every year and winning one, you are going to give him a LOT of leeway.  That is NOT Florida's situation now.  Now they have two previous NC winning coaches, 3 NC's, and a slew of SEC titles.  That is now the basis of comparison for whomever is HC in the Swamp.  

My underlying point is that when Spurrier was hired the bar was reasonably attainable in Gainesville.  In the 30 years since then Spurrier and Meyer have moved that bar up so much that they are like tOSU and Bama, the bar is near-impossible to clear.  

 

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