Would Fickel listen?Fickel isn’t a fit imo. He’s a defensive minded coach. And honestly not really sold him just yet.
Justin Wilcox at Cal?
M is a tough job, with the expectations and all that comes with.
Ohio State is historically great and shows no signs of slowing down. It will be tough for anyone in this conference to catch them (not talking about a random upset either).
https://twitter.com/JermainCrowell/status/1325173363111768069?s=19Another valid criticism of Jim- his war with Belleville HS head coach- by far the top talent producing HS in the state. Makes ZERO sense to not only alienate but go to war with the head coach of a school in your backyard that produces 5*’s and 4’s* every single year.
Were I an up and coming young coach, I would wait for a different offer no matter the money.that's a LOT of money
Seriously.
love this threadYou shouldn't the law of averages suggests they just might find a coach
You shouldn't the law of averages suggests they just might find a coachThat "law" of course isn't a law at all and if often misapplied.
Not just Tennessee. There are plenty of programs as examples.How about Bama or even the OSU - took the right coach.So it can happen.Or Clemson they weren't in the discussion perennially until Dabo sauntered by
You shouldn't the law of averages suggests they just might find a coachhah, you shouldn't either, but you do
Yup, I have speculated in the past it takes 4-5 bad coaching hires for a near Blue Blood to start to appear to be mediocre. See Army, Minnesota, Ole Miss, Arkansas (congrats on the win today, showing some life).Iowa was not elite before Forest Evashevski, but was elite during his era. Nearly two decades of nonwinning football followed after Forest Evashevski stepped down from coaching after the 1960 season when Iowa finished #3 AP behind Minnesota and Mississippi. Iowa became a coaching graveyard for 18-years.
Once your program is perceived as being mediocre it's tough to climb back. The top recruits don't even think about you.
hah, you shouldn't either, but you doOriginally but I hope the full 7 are served....then we'll talk extensions
No one picks Wisconsin over Michigan, even though the two have traded places for the last 20 years.Ummm...
No one picks Wisconsin over Michigan, even though the two have traded places for the last 20 years.While not fully no one, generally Michigan still lands more talent. To a degree, I'm not totally worried.
UW has been recruiting at a very high level under Chryst (based on STARZ AND performance).Compeition?
I still don't get why 4-5* RB's don't flock to Madison.
I don't think those kids worry about stuff like that. They all think they are day one starters.Particularly at RB, where multiple guys can factor
Particularly at RB, where multiple guys can factorI remember when UW had White, Ball and Gordon in the room. I'll take that again. 3 STARZ, except Gordon, who was a very low 4* rating.
His problem is expectations. I think UM fans expect to be "elite", and they are not recruiting at the elite level IMHO.I agree, but the lack of being elite isn't what is going to get him fired.
2018 22nd
2019 8th
2020 14th
If you want a very good program, those 247 rankings are just that, very good. But not elite.
Yeah, I liked having Chubb/Michel/Swift as a trio as well. I think Zamir White is not quite there at this point, and perhaps the OL has regressed, and the passing game.I just had someone order 2014 UGA, with Chubb/Gurley/Michel. How'd Richt screw that up? lol
Michigan is still recruiting OK, but not at the level of OSU, etc. UW is closer to Michigan than it is to Nebraska, and has beaten both for many recruits this year.Ohio State and Alabama have been recruiting at levels no one else can match. Georgia and Clemson have been right there as well, but not quite to the level of OSU/BAMA imo.
https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/
His problem is expectations. I think UM fans expect to be "elite", and they are not recruiting at the elite level IMHO.This is not good. Especially when you consider his first two full classes (2016/2017) were ranked 8th and 5th.
2018 22nd
2019 8th
2020 14th
If you want a very good program, those 247 rankings are just that, very good. But not elite.
I agree, but the lack of being elite isn't what is going to get him fired.This. Losing to a horrible Michigan State team at home this year- and getting blown out by Indiana and Wisconsin is what will do him in.
Losing to Michigan St., Indiana, Wisconsin, and Penn St will get him fired.
I just had someone order 2014 UGA, with Chubb/Gurley/Michel. How'd Richt screw that up? lolThat was a weird case, more schedule-wise than coaching-wise. Gurley tore his ACL six games in. QB was one of the most average they've had, same with WRs, still were No. 7 in points per drive.
No doubt losses this year have pushed this to the front burner, but I think losing to Ohio State year after year, if it happened, would have done the same thing, just at the end of next season. Expectations.cooler heads at the top understand beating a team like Ohio St., Clemson, or Bama is just unrealistic. This keeps Jim around for another 5 -10 years if his only losses are to top 4 teams.
Michigan fans and Big Donors thought JH would bring them UP in the world, significantly, to the level of Ohio State, which is ELITE, not pretty good.
did Richt get more than 6 seasons?Of course he did, and had some good years in that obviously. Folks wanted the program to take that "next step", expectations and all that. I suspect Richt did better at beating rivals and overall record than Harbaugh has done to date.
Of course he did, and had some good years in that obviously. Folks wanted the program to take that "next step", expectations and all that. I suspect Richt did better at beating rivals and overall record than Harbaugh has done to date.yup, I think after 10 seasons or so, fatigue of lack of big wins takes a toll, but at 6 or 7 seasons a coach winning at a good pace, but just missing vs rivals such as Ohio St. or Bama get more time to get over the hump.
did Richt get more than 6 seasons?Richt won 61 games his first six seasons with two SEC titles and a loss to the national champ in the title game. The first big disappointment year was 2008, and then the slipped and Bama rose and that was that.
Who would they get? Matt Campbell? A guy with zero conference titles, who is winless in CyHawk games?Campell's beaten Texas,Oklahoma - without the benefit of being a blue blood.Sumtin' Jimmy's failed to do.We went extended on this subject a month ago.He's won BIG 12 COY - 2X,You should have jumped in instead of well ya he sux 😁He does a lot with a little.Lost last year by 1pt and went to OT and lost by 3 with one blow out loss 42-3.Want to bet Iowa has sent a lot more talent to Sundays
What would be the point? An attempt to prove that there are coaches out there who could muster the same results as Harbaugh for less money?
did Richt get more than 6 seasons?Twice that, or some-such.
Richt won 61 games his first six seasons with two SEC titles and a loss to the national champ in the title game. The first big disappointment year was 2008, and then the slipped and Bama rose and that was that.He lost to Florida in both of those Sugar Bowl seasons, including UGA's only loss in 2002. Salty.
Dangerous times for Georgia, Michigan and Penn StateThis makes me wonder what the magic number is for the top teams in a given stretch is. We all remember that OU stunk in the 90s, and Texas, too, for a time (even now?). More recently, we've seen Nebraska and Tennessee fall off a cliff, over a decade plus. Florida fell off, but seems to be relevant again.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/insider/story/_/id/30280401/why-big-college-football-programs-georgia-michigan-penn-state-struggling (https://www.espn.com/college-football/insider/story/_/id/30280401/why-big-college-football-programs-georgia-michigan-penn-state-struggling)
I think what FSU did with Fisher might have been worse than what Nebraska did with Solich. Instead of dumping a guy who was winning, they just let him walk. And since then - dumpster fire.No, we are so happy Fisher is gone fishing.
That being said, FSU isn't Tennessee (yet). Rocky Top is basically Kentucky now. All the way up through 2016, even as it was replaced atop the ACC, FSU ended each regular season as the 2nd-highest ranked ACC team. So when Clemson started owning the conference, FSU was still right behind them. The Noles would need at least 5 more years of craptitude to even begin to be thought of in the same breath as Nebraska or Tennessee.
This reminds me of the old banner some Mets fan brought to Opening Day "Wait 'til next year."Tribe fans in the'60s/'70s/'80s use do to that also.Think it was 1988 and Letterman started of his monologue with "It's the beginning of the 1988 Major League Baseball Season and the Indians have been eliminated from the Pennant Race.Or one year he was doing his top ten list - reasons why your team wouldn't win the World Series.The number one reason was if the team name rhymed with Schmindians
OSU has had four coaches in fifteen years without any major struggles, so I would be surprised if there aren't some fairly competent teams that have had five.I was thinking about that as a counter example, some special situations would of course be likely.
No, we are so happy Fisher is gone fishing.Brilliant.
OSU has had four coaches in fifteen years without any major struggles, so I would be surprised if there aren't some fairly competent teams that have had five.This is why OSU has been so great. Jim Tressel is a HOF, NT winning coach, and then they replaced him with an even BETTER coach. And then they had a succession plan in place and handed the keys to a guy that looks like the real deal Holyfield in Ryan Day.
So, is he gone after this season, or does he get one more? My GUESS is he gets one more, at least, to show progress.With income from games or no fan attendance taking a hit.They'll ride it out.Unless they don't mind throwing funds that could actually be used for things like education away
OSU has had four coaches in fifteen years without any major struggles, so I would be surprised if there aren't some fairly competent teams that have had five.The best program with five in 15 is Cincinnati. Discounting mid-majors that are easily plucked, the best team with five in 15 is Miami. Louisville half counts as a mid-major and also had five.
So, is he gone after this season, or does he get one more? My GUESS is he gets one more, at least, to show progress.Are we talking about Jim?
The best program with five in 15 is Cincinnati. Discounting mid-majors that are easily plucked, the best team with five in 15 is Miami. Louisville half counts as a mid-major and also had five.Which teams with five were consistently good during their 15 year stretch?
Florida was one year away from five, but Urbs arrived in 2005.
Can anyone ever recall an all-time great hof coach being immediately replaced by an even better hof all-time great coach?Miami? Nebraska?
That just doesn’t happen. Yet it happened at OSU.
Can anyone ever recall an all-time great hof coach being immediately replaced by an even better hof all-time great coach?When did it happen at OSU?
That just doesn’t happen. Yet it happened at OSU.
When did it happen at OSU?Fickel was interim. It happened at OSU.
Fickel was interim. It happened at OSU.Right, but his use of the word "immediately"....
Galen Hall cheated despite replacing a cheater (Charley Pell). That's.....not bright.Yeah, but he also won, and had Florida (I believe) at it's highest point in program history...then went and got Spurrier
Right, but his use of the word "immediately"....It was immediate. He was contacted as soon as OSU could, and was hired while the interim was still coaching. He began recruiting immediately too.
Which teams with five were consistently good during their 15 year stretch?Cindy's worst coach was Tubbs, and even he managed to muster a Conference Title.
I.e. If a team struggled through four coaches before finding a good one, I don't consider that an example of a "good team with 5 coaches in 15 years" just because they're good at the end of it.
OSU is a great example of maintaining program success through multiple coaching changes, but even then it's only 4.
Which teams with five were consistently good during their 15 year stretch?I mean, it depends what "consistently good" means.
I.e. If a team struggled through four coaches before finding a good one, I don't consider that an example of a "good team with 5 coaches in 15 years" just because they're good at the end of it.
OSU is a great example of maintaining program success through multiple coaching changes, but even then it's only 4.
Miami? Nebraska?that was before MDOT was born
Are we talking about Jim?This.
I think you can't lose to bad MSU and IU in the same season. Plus the year ends with a whipping by OSU. And you have to beat UW and PSU to stay above .500 in the regular season? Toast.
Miami? Nebraska?Not sure I'd consider Schnellenberger an all-time great coach, even though he built Miami into what it was. Schnellberger only had 1 truly great season at Miami and then he immediately left, and his record at Louisville, Oklahoma, and FAU was terrible.
Cindy's worst coach was Tubbs, and even he managed to muster a Conference Title.Agreed. I was responding to BAB who mentioned Cinci, but then followed up with "leaving out mid-majors who can be easily plucked".
Dino was the only one that didn't, and he turned out ok.
"Consistently good" means good enough not to fire your coach*.Exactly.
Circular logic ...
Hence Miami. Miami can make a credible argument of having several consecutive coaches who underachieved, performance-wise, given their recruiting and expectations. So even if they're 6-6 or better and making bowls, that might not be "consistently good" enough at Miami.Miami is a weird one. It's a small private school, it's not even located in the city of Miami- it's in an uppity rich city- Coral Gables- they don't have an on campus stadium- the play at an NFL teams stadium 25 miles away in Miami Gardens, and the fan base is basically zilch. There is so much going on in South Florida, and there are so many transplants to South Florida- nobody really gives a shit about U of Miami football like they do in say Alabama, OSU, Michigan, FSU, Florida- or any other football crazed college town/area.
What made Miami special was they were completely locking down South Florida recruits- which hassome ofthe most elite football talent in the entire country.
I think the same could be happening to FSU.all it will take for Miami and FSU is the right coach
UW is beating them for some recruits. When did you ever think that would happen?
all it will take for Miami and FSU is the right coachMiami will be difficult imo. Agree with you on FSU. It's a really neat college town with a die-hard fanbase.
the coach that can recruit - lockdown all of that Florida talent
I think the same could be happening to FSU.FSU will be able to comeback imo. It will take the right coach. That is true of any program though. It takes the right coach.
UW is beating them for some recruits. When did you ever think that would happen?
No one's ever done that, lol. All the FL talent would fill 5 big-boy teams."I'd rather recruit the State of Miami."
It's nice to have the right coach when he's 48 years old.Why didn't Florida just hire Mullen after Urban left? Did they even try?
back in the late 80's early 90's Miami, Florida St., and Florida got the florida high school talent they could hold on the rosterWell.....11 NC in 31 years (83-13) from one state is pretty sick.
a few went to the the SEC, but the message from ESPN back then was that those 3 teams were going to rule College football indefinitely
Texas, California, Ohio high school talent couldn't compete
Why didn't Florida just hire Mullen after Urban left? Did they even try?We're back to the "rarely a legend follows a legend" thing (not that DM is a legend). We saw it when Spurrier left - no one wanted to follow his career.
"I'd rather recruit the State of Miami."An all-star team from the rest of the state would beat a Miami/Broward all-star team.....but they'd both beat anyone else.
- Larry Coker, when asked about recruiting in the State of Florida.
Well.....11 NC in 31 years (83-13) from one state is pretty sick.Ed Zachery, the strange part is............ how many since?
Those other 3 states managed only 4 in the same time frame...combined.
An all-star team from the rest of the state would beat a Miami/Broward all-star team.....but they'd both beat anyone else.It's amazing that he never had to leave to recruit using anything but a car.
But it's a badass quote.
An all-star team from the rest of the state would beat a Miami/Broward all-star team.....but they'd both beat anyone else.Disagree.
But it's a badass quote.
It's amazing that he never had to leave to recruit using anything but a car.
That quote was right after Miami smashed UNL in Pasadena for the MNC.
Disagree.I assume not, but do you live in FL?
A South Florida (Palm Beach/Broward/Dade) All-Star team would smoke a rest of FL team. Those 3 counties have nearly half the state's population and probably more than half of the state's elite football talent.
This of course isn't counting the IMG bullshit school in Tampa area- which recruits 5* and 4* kids from every state in the entire country.
Ed Zachery, the strange part is............ how many since?Looking at it, program-by-program:
How many times just in the 4 team playoff?
what changed?
I assume not, but do you live in FL?You know what assume means?
From a generic perspective, you're making sense here. Even omitting IMG, south FL may very well beat the best from Tampa/St. Pete, Orlando, and Jax. That's true.
But it's easy to overlook 2 other spots that would include legit dudes:Pahokee/Belle Glade and the panhandle
That would put the rest of FL over the top vs Miami-Dade/Broward. But it's a mythical 'what if' and has no right answer.
I assume not, but do you live in FL?He's a Miami guy. He's a fan (of the place, not the canes).
Michigan fan's coaching solution comes down to hiring one of the three or four coaches that can contend for a national title every year: Saban, Meyer/Day, Swinney? Coaches whose conference rivals have almost no hope competing with season after season. Harbaugh was properly hyped; Stanford is still benefitting from his turnaround and his four years with the Niners were about the best in the NFL during his time there. Since it just hasn’t worked out in Ann Arbor I won’t be surprised if Harbaugh is back in the NFL soon. If instead Michigan looks to move on they’re dumping him for not winning at a top 3 percent level at the risk of further destabilizing the program with more 3 and Out coaching hires. Remember getting blown out by Kansas St in the Wild Wings Bowl? Granted it looks particularly bad losing back to back to Indiana and a Michigan St team blown out by Iowa, but Michigan fans are long overdue to give up hope of challenging Ohio State. Hiring a coach for the purpose of beating Ohio State, Alabama, or Clemson is just wishful Athletic Directing.The only thing you can do is hire a guy you think will be very good and hope. And even then, Ohio State in it's natural state of being better than Michigan presents a problem.
You know what assume means?Then he's biased, lol.
He lives in Florida, in the area of which he speaks.
IMG should not exist.A lot of things should not exist, but they do, and will continue to exist.
Looking at it, program-by-program:a timing issue?
The playoff began in 2014.
Florida - Meyer left. Muschamp's peak was 2012 and the Gators didn't have the right HC entering the playoff era. And Saban.
FSU - The Noles peaked with a NC the year before the playoff began and regressed in 2014. Since losing their Heisman QB, Clemson overtook them in the ACC and Jimbo left.
Miami - the Canes are different, they haven't mattered since 2003, aside from having a good start in 2017. That year, they basically got up to #2 vs a weak schedule and beating a weak #3 ND, but wound up losing their last 3 games. Miami just hasn't had the HC they need to matter in a long time now.
So for Florida and FSU, it was a timing issue and Miami just hasn't belonged.
but Michigan fans are long overdue to give up hope of challenging Ohio State. Hiring a coach for the purpose of beating Ohio State, Alabama, or Clemson is just wishful Athletic Directing.this will not get Jim fired
this will not get Jim fired
some fans would fire him, but intelligent boosters and good athletic directors know better
beating MSU, PSU, Indiana, and everyone in the west besides Wisconsin should be the goal and should be expected.
ya just gotta hope Ohio St. can't remain at this level
and play well against them hoping for an upset once in a while
I assume not, but do you live in FL?Yes, I do.
From a generic perspective, you're making sense here. Even omitting IMG, south FL may very well beat the best from Tampa/St. Pete, Orlando, and Jax. That's true.
But it's easy to overlook 2 other spots that would include legit dudes:Pahokee/Belle Glade and the panhandle
That would put the rest of FL over the top vs Miami-Dade/Broward. But it's a mythical 'what if' and has no right answer.
With no way to reasonably research who would win a game between the Miami-area HS recruits and the rest-of-FL HS recruits, then it's just about our opinions and neither of us can claim more expertise than the other. I'm well aware of Northwestern, Central, Heritage, Booker T Washington, Dillard, Carol City, etc. And if he wants to go up to Palm Beach county, which is fine, then you've got Ely, Deerfield Beach, and Aquinas.Lol. Ely, Deerfield and Aquinas are all in Broward bro.
These are legendary, traditional football powers - all.
But those 3 counties are only about 1/3 of FL's overall population. So who would I get?
I get Vero Beach, Seminole, Lakeland, Tampa Plant, Riverview, Manatee, Osceola, Dr. Phillips, Armwood, Bowles, Columbia, Rockledge, Merrit Island, the aforementioned Belle Glade/Pahokee, and the panhandle - Escambia, Leon, Ft. Walton Beach, Lincoln, Niceville, etc.....and every random po-dunk country boy kid with talent.
Just a difference of opinion is all. But I think we both agree that IMG is BS.
I wholeheartedly agree about the fans. but, fans don't fire coaches.
It's one thing for you and I to understand this ^^^
But what about Michigan fans? Too many Michigan fans have told me Wolverines Football is their LIFE. Those same fans tell me the entire season is a FAILURE if they don't beat Ohio State.
By their own logic, life for Michigan fans has only been worth living for TWO of the past TWENTY years (including this year).
Wolverines, time to reset your expectations for the sake of your own mental outlook.
The only thing you can do is hire a guy you think will be very good and hope. And even then, Ohio State in it's natural state of being better than Michigan presents a problem.Right- but seems as if everyone just glossed over my post a few pages back where I listed a shitload of stud players for OSU that were 1st or 2nd round picks that mainly Meyer recruited that are...NOT from Ohio!
a timing issue?Coaching matters. Look at USC. When they had Pete Carroll- they were insane. Before Carroll? Not so much. After Carroll....it's been mostly LOLs.
recruits dried up or the Florida schools quit recruiting their own state?
I was lead to believe by ESPN and most others that any coach with a pulse could take the recruits going to Miami, Florida, and Florida St. and easily crank out top 5 teams.
this will not get Jim firedThis. His failures vs MSU, getting blown out by Indiana, and dropping games to PSU are going to get him fired.
some fans would fire him, but intelligent boosters and good athletic directors know better
beating MSU, PSU, Indiana, and everyone in the west besides Wisconsin should be the goal and should be expected.
ya just gotta hope Ohio St. can't remain at this level
and play well against them hoping for an upset once in a while
How could I forget!?!
Belle Glade/Pahokee are IN SOUTH FLORIDA. They are in Palm Beach County. And yes IMG is some bullshit.
ya just gotta hope Ohio St. can't remain at this levelSHUT...UP...YOU
Wolverines, time to reset your expectations for the sake of your own mental outlook.SHUT...UP...YOU
How could I forget!?!C'mon,say it with me.you were w-w....you were w-r....,you were w-ro....you were wrooonnggg :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPNYdtcd_0c&ab_channel=MichiganPodcastWhat in the hell is that. Lmao.
What in the hell is that. Lmao.Chris Farley's tubby little brother leading a pep rally?
42 long minutesThey were regular minutes.
They could have been long minutes if he were traveling at a high relative velocity or was in a deep gravitational well.And they still wouldn't be as long as the last minute of a 9 point basketball game.
C'mon,say it with me.you were w-w....you were w-r....,you were w-ro....you were wrooonnggg :DOh, I was absolutely wrong about Pahokee and Belle Glade being outside of those 3 counties. I had know it at one time, for that very specific instance, lol.
those who know him know he doesn't roll that way :57:😂😂😂😂
Oh, I was absolutely wrong about Pahokee and Belle Glade being outside of those 3 counties. I had know it at one time, for that very specific instance, lol.Look at the top 20 kids in the state of Florida- removing the IMG bs kids.
I still think the rest-of-FL team would win more than half the time, though.
| [th]State[/th] [th]2020[/th] [th]total share[/th] | ||
| Florida | 59 | 16.3% |
| Texas | 54 | 14.9% |
| Georgia | 36 | 9.9% |
| California | 30 | 8.3% |
| Louisiana | 16 | 4.4% |
| Alabama | 15 | 4.1% |
| Maryland | 15 | 4.1% |
| North Carolina | 13 | 3.6% |
| Tennessee | 11 | 3.0% |
| Arizona | 9 | 2.5% |
| Michigan | 8 | 2.2% |
They could have been long minutes if he were traveling at a high relative velocity or was in a deep gravitational well.African Swallows go much longer than 42 minutes,European Swallows on the other hand.....
African Swallows go much longer than 42 minutes,European Swallows on the other hand.....Don't get me started on shrubberies...
African Swallows go much longer than 42 minutes,European Swallows on the other hand.....Youtube also allows you to tinker with the playback speed. So you can knock those minutes out in 30 seconds each, if you like.
So, my guess is JH gets 2021 to do something, make a major bowl, compete with OSU, win 11, something, maybe 10-3 is judged OK if he beats MSU. I imagine there are discussions about who might be attractive as a replacement.I don’t think he makes it past 2020.
I don’t think he makes it past 2020.It doesn't make sense from a financial view point for the program.JHs buyout/salary would put a dent in Ms endowments.The next guy would want to fetch a hefty sum since the guy before him got it
It doesn't make sense from a financial view point for the program.JHs buyout/salary would put a dent in Ms endowments.The next guy would want to fetch a hefty sum since the guy before him got itMaybe. His situation is an issue next year, but not after that. His buyout is actually relatively kind, all things considered. You'd have to get powerful creative with next year's budget, but it would clear quickly.
It doesn't make sense from a financial view point for the program.JHs buyout/salary would put a dent in Ms endowments.The next guy would want to fetch a hefty sum since the guy before him got itLol. UofM's endowment is north of $13 billion. And they don't touch the endowment money for athletics or football program. That's all self-funded through ticket sales, merchandising, tv money, and donations.
He's never lost his job after an OSU thrashing before. Why now?because Indiana and Michigan St
It doesn't make sense from a financial view point for the program.JHs buyout/salary would put a dent in Ms endowments.The next guy would want to fetch a hefty sum since the guy before him got itMichigan Men have money
Lol. UofM's endowment is north of $13 billion. And they don't touch the endowment money for athletics or football program. That's all self-funded through ticket sales, merchandising, tv money, and donations.I was being facetious but only a little,meaning keeping expenditures in line.With no income from empty stadiums and perhaps waning interest abroad they should be careful throwing away more money.Unless they are willing to take a chance on an up and comer with more favorable contract to the Program
His buyout would be $6 million- what he is owed in 2021. If they really want to get rid of him, that isn't going to stop them and they could find any number of rich donors to donate the money to pay him off.
Don't get me started on shrubberies...I am a shrubber, Rodgers the shrubber.
Michigan Men have moneyDoes UM go after a Michigan man to replace him? Are there any? I know RichRod didn't work out, but adhering only to UM guys is stupid.
Youtube also allows you to tinker with the playback speed. So you can knock those minutes out in 30 seconds each, if you like.Eureka! Fearless must've been watching it on half speed, making each minute last 2 minutes.
Does UM go after a Michigan man to replace him? Are there any? I know RichRod didn't work out, but adhering only to UM guys is stupid.
Artificially shrinking your potential candidate pool is stupid in any hiring situation.
Making coaching change decisions based on this season is loony.That's where I'm leaning as well, short of some "for cause" event.
Why not call it a mulligan and get a free 2021 out of JH while you are looking and thinking about it?Hardly free just not any pricier - which was enough
Hardly free just not any pricier - which was enoughIt is free from the perspective of "sunk costs". Ie, Michigan has to pay that whether Harbaugh coaches there or not so it is "free" to have him coach because it doesn't cost any more than not having him coach.
Tennessee fans shouldn't have run off Schiano.This. He’s a waaaaaaay better coach than Jeremy Pruitt lol.
Making coaching change decisions based on this season is loony.I agree and I'm having a hard time figuring out where I stand on this.
Making coaching change decisions based on this season is loony.I agree if we're talking about this season only
I think the issue is that you're paying Jim Harbaugh to get you to the CFP, not just beat OSU. To do that, 2 losses is too many. He's had two regular season losses in EVERY year at Michigan.This is a great post. Agree with all of it. At the same time, he's done OK despite having mediocre offenses and average QB play.
If he was getting to the game quite often at 11-0 and just losing to insanely good OSU teams, it might be one thing. But here's what he's had coming in to each Game:
- 2015: 9-2
- 2016: 10-1
- 2017: 8-3
- 2018: 10-1
- 2019: 9-2
Beating OSU in 2016 or 2018 might have been enough to get into the CFP, but in the three other years, beating OSU and winning the CCG wouldn't have gotten them in.
Now, maybe Michigan going to the CFP is an unrealistic expectation... But their fan base is known for unrealistic expectations. And Harbaugh hasn't shown evidence that he's going to live up to them, and it's costing a lot of money to not get what they want.
Harbaugh is similar to Richt at Georgia, except that Harbaugh is a weirdo who seems to grate on everyone over time, whereas Richt was a great ambassador for the program. Much like Pelini at Nebraska, coming "just short" repeatedly can get you a long leash if you're well-liked, but not if you're a weirdo or asshole.
My point is that with the ONE exception of MSU this year, Harbaugh isn't losing to bad teams. In fact, he is even doing pretty well against good teams. The only place where he is NOT doing well is against great and elite teams and well, nobody does very well against great and elite teams.Pretty sure that wasn't highlighted in his contract when he became HC in AA.He wasn't even going 50-50 vs teams with a pulse at a supposed Blue Blood.If I'm the AD I ride it out unless you get Urbz/ST Nick/Dabo-Doo or hell even Herm Edwards.Who knows he may pull out all the stops and go out swinging in 2021.He'll prolly end up beating MSU/PSU/tOSU.UW and get an extension.That'd be funny
I think the issue is that you're paying Jim Harbaugh to get you to the CFP, not just beat OSU. To do that, 2 losses is too many. He's had two regular season losses in EVERY year at Michigan.
If he was getting to the game quite often at 11-0 and just losing to insanely good OSU teams, it might be one thing. But here's what he's had coming in to each Game:
- 2015: 9-2
- 2016: 10-1
- 2017: 8-3
- 2018: 10-1
- 2019: 9-2
Beating OSU in 2016 or 2018 might have been enough to get into the CFP, but in the three other years, beating OSU and winning the CCG wouldn't have gotten them in.
(4) five starsFor the 2021 class, the state of FL has 7 players ranked 5*'s- but that's because of that IMG Sports Agents Academy that has 3 kids that are ranked 5*'s in 2021. One of those 3 kids rated 5*'s at IMG is actually from Miami though- 5* WR Jacorey Brooks.
how many nationally? How many in Texas?
I was with you until you said Pelini was a good ambassador and well liked. I'm not a Nebraska fan, but is that really true? Maybe you meant to say Frank Solich?Was referring to Richt. I was saying JH is a weirdo and Pelini was an asshole, so neither will get the leash Richt got.
Ohio St has scooped a couple Boza brosOhio St has been living off 5* and 4* FL kids ever since Urban got there.
I think the issue is that you're paying Jim Harbaugh to get you to the CFP, not just beat OSU. To do that, 2 losses is too many. He's had two regular season losses in EVERY year at Michigan.There is no "might" about it:
If he was getting to the game quite often at 11-0 and just losing to insanely good OSU teams, it might be one thing. But here's what he's had coming in to each Game:
- 2015: 9-2
- 2016: 10-1
- 2017: 8-3
- 2018: 10-1
- 2019: 9-2
Beating OSU in 2016 or 2018 might have been enough to get into the CFP, but in the three other years, beating OSU and winning the CCG wouldn't have gotten them in.
BB gotta admit the 2016 Game was close and Spreight threw 2 picks right at Buckeyes.But Hoke recruited that team and JH recruited SpreightHoke recruited Speight.
Hoke recruited Speight.Thought he transferred in maybe thinking of Ruddock
Does Michigan's academics affect their recruiting? Is that a thing for them?Not really because they push many of their players into a major called General Studies.
Have to ask 847 about that
You can keep a player on an NCAA approved track pretty easily these days, and anywhere, even tough places like UNC.
Does Michigan's academics affect their recruiting? Is that a thing for them?Not really. It’s only happened a handful of times. Charles Rogers & Demar Dorsey, are the only ones I can remember having issues being admitted.
Harbaugh needs to retireBeen saying this for awhile. He’s been checked out mentally and emotionally for a couple years now. Dude is just a spaced out weirdo now.
he's gone
Should have kept the McCaffery he had.Yup. Which is what I said from day one. Milton is insanely talented, but he’s also super raw. He needs development and refinement, someone to teach him how to be a QB. That someone is NOT Jim Harbaugh.
Maybe they will hire Will Muschamp. Or Pruitt.Lol. Probably not.
I think the only reason to favor a graduate is that he might come a bit cheaper if he really wants to be there.Harbaugh is a graduate, and he didn’t come any cheaper at all.
Yup. Which is what I said from day one. Milton is insanely talented, but he’s also super raw. He needs development and refinement, someone to teach him how to be a QB. That someone is NOT Jim Harbaugh.See, I thought McCaffrey was raw and more athlete than QB. I guess it's all relative.
McCaffrey was a more developed, well rounded QB. Should’ve stuck with him.
This offensive scheme and stupid play-calling would help no QB however. I think anyone would struggle playing for that idiot.
Am I in the minority that thinks Harbaugh is going nowhere. UM won’t fire him. He won’t leave on his own. ??Not sure about Harbaugh leaving Michigan. This is a very bad year for new hires to be looking for long term contracts. On the other hand private donors may step into the Michigan situation if they could land someone like Urban Meyer.
See, I thought McCaffrey was raw and more athlete than QB. I guess it's all relative.Hate to use HS stats- but McCaffrey in HS- albeit on a loaded private school in Colorado- completed 68% of his passes and threw 90 TD’s vs only 16 INT’s in his HS career.
Not sure about Harbaugh leaving Michigan. This is a very bad year for new hires to be looking for long term contracts. On the other hand private donors may step into the Michigan situation if they could land someone like Urban Meyer.Urban is a pipe dream.
Now they have tutors staying on top of them ensuring they go to class at least. Tutors may also help "in other ways".Pretty sure Dudek-where ever the hell he is use to tutor some of the players
Manhatten & Miami aren't they hi Covid areas?Trying to kill him before he gets thereLol. They are also some of the most valuable real estate markets in the world- and Stephen Ross is UM's biggest donors- and also happens to be one of the largest real estate developers in the world. He owns/develops hi-rise buildings in Manhattan & Miami.
UM better go ahead so they'll have first shot at Muschamp!I’d take him as a Co-Dc, maybe.
Lol. They are also some of the most valuable real estate markets in the world- and Stephen Ross is UM's biggest donors- and also happens to be one of the largest real estate developers in the world. He owns/develops hi-rise buildings in Manhattan & Miami.
I mean, neither guy has been able to beat Ohio State, so there's that. The difference is expectations, and I think in the case of Michigan, they are not realistic.Exactly. I fully expected PC to keep Wisconsin Wisconsin. Familiarity with the administration, the recruiting scene, and offered full continuity of the offensive style and "identity". He's done that.
(https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2015%2F0807%2F081715rivalsc100_r2021_1296x729_16%2D9.jpg)forgot the spectacles
Jim Harbaugh and Paul Chryst were hired at the same time.this is why every coaching hire is a crap shoot
Lots of people questioned the PC hire. Everyone raved about the JH hire.
where would we be had each taken the opposite job? (Harbaugh at Wisconsin vs Crist at Michigan. )Record-wise, PC has won .771 overall and .782 in the B1G.
sometimes the 4 and 5 stars don't want to develop. They don't have a chip on their shoulder.I agree completely. The skill-set of developing 2* and 3* guys into great players is not exactly the same as the skill-set of getting 5* guys to play like the great players that everybody already thinks they are. Just because you are good at one (either one) doesn't mean you'd be good at the other. Conversely, just because you are bad at one (either one) doesn't mean you would be bad at the other.
I feel that some guys are better at coaching 2 and 3 stars and some guys are better at motivating 4 and 5 stars
This is the WSJ's whole column on the UW/UM tilt. Seriously.Jason whole shtick is how he can't stand being by surrounded by obnoxious Michigan alumni at the WSJ. Frankly, it's really played . However this was an appropriate way to project this, a lot shorter too.
[img width=234.333 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/F8uHAxl.jpg[/img]
This would not be good for UM.Makes sense for him to leave. He's got legit NFL talent and he's being wasted by an idiot coach. He's going to be the first of many. There will be a mass exodus. And Michigan has lost a ton of players to transfer since Harbaugh arrived. Some really talented ones too.
Didn't see much of him last weekend. What's up?
https://247sports.com/college/usc/board/102339/Contents/question-for-gerard-re-zack-charbonett-154888542/
There is a somewhat credible rumor that Harbaugh will resign at the end of the year. I hope not.Why? More than a few players on that team can't stand him and the team has quit on him. He failed to keep by far his best recruiters in Mattison and Partridge around- which is why that defense has fallen off a cliff because it lacks talent- talent those two guys recruited- and so many good players have jumped ship these last couple years because they can't stand him.
he's probably been told to resigndude is a lost cause. you can tell every time he has a press conference the last 2 years at least that he's just completely not into it anymore. he used to be a passionate, fiery weirdo. now he's just a spaced out, lost, zombie-like, emotionless, going through the motions weirdo- and he's been that way for a couple years- not like it just happened overnight or because of this season.
Not really. It’s only happened a handful of times. Charles Rogers & Demar Dorsey, are the only ones I can remember having issues being admitted.Honestly, I see this as somewhat silly. I get the reasoning. Michigan assumes, probably correctly, that their recruited athletes probably can't compete in the Business College with real students who have 400+ higher scores on their SAT's. Why not let them in, then push them out when they can't hack it? I assume that is what ND does.
The one problem they have sometimes is recruits want to be guaranteed admission to their business school- and they can’t do that. Notre Dame does this- and Michigan has lost more than a couple to ND bc of this.
dude is a lost cause. you can tell every time he has a press conference the last 2 years at least that he's just completely not into it anymore. he used to be a passionate, fiery weirdo. now he's just a spaced out, lost, zombie-like, emotionless, going through the motions weirdo- and he's been that way for a couple years- not like it just happened overnight or because of this season.In Harbaugh's defense, and I mean this in all seriousness, I think most or all of the successful coaches at this level are weird. You are talking about a job that probably half the guys in America would LOVE to have. You can't succeed against that much competition as a normal guy. You've got to be a little strange one way or another.
after the bad loss to Wisconsin, were I the AD I'd have told Jim he was going to resign at the end of the season. If he wanted to keep his job he needed to win out, beating the BuckeyesOhio State is going to murder Michigan. It will not be close. There is nothing no one can do. This team has quit on Harbaugh, they have zero faith in him, and they have no fight. And there is a huge lack of talent rearing it's ugly head on defense- and that's because Don Brown is an absolutely god awful recruiter. The guys who recruited all that talent on Michigan's defenses from 2015-2019 were Greg Mattison and Chris Partridge. They are both gone.
Am I in the minority that thinks Harbaugh is going nowhere. UM won’t fire him. He won’t leave on his own. ??I definitely think it is a possibility but the 49-11 loss to Wisconsin makes that less likely. Losing would be one thing, being totally non-competitive is another.
the lack of defense is the strangest thing to me. Harbaugh and his QBs have been limiting the offense since he was hired, but the defense was always stout as hell.defense was stout vs teams that couldn't match up. That was 99% of the time. The 1% of the time they played teams with equal or better talent/scheme- they got absolutely shredded.
I think Harbaugh's biggest missteps have been the white road pants and darkening the blue to near-black.his biggest missteps have been allowing Mattison/Partridge to leave and meddling in the offense too much.
Rashan Gary actually came close to coming back to Michigan. He loved the school and campus and getting a degree was important to him and especially his mother. He left early for the draft because he couldn't stand Harbaugh. Neither could his mother by the way.Gary may have loved the school/campus/program but he didn' like studying to get that degree
Gary may have loved the school/campus/program but he didn' like studying to get that degreeHe didn't like Jim Harbaugh. Neither did his mother.
There is a somewhat credible rumor that Harbaugh will resign at the end of the year. I hope not.This would actually work out for the program/university not paying next years full contract.And getting a jump on a replacement
He didn't like Jim Harbaugh. Neither did his mother.That's got nothing to to do with his study habits - he got a 9 on the Wonderlic that's either lax program standards or Rashad didn't like to hit the books.Not that anyone does but still
You fire Harbaugh, recruiting efforts will assuredly fall apart. Maybe best thing to do is just suck it up and give him a mulligan for a shit ass crazy ass COVID filled 2020. Let him have 2021 to put up or shut up.IMHO: Recruiting determines the speed with which the situation need to be dealt with.
IMHO: Recruiting determines the speed with which the situation need to be dealt with.well the 2022 stuff is just rumblings so far- but insiders like Sam Webb and Steve Witflong are saying it's looking very good for Michigan right now for a pair of top 10 national players- and the #1 and #3 CB's in the entire country. That is a great news for a team that has literally no playable B1G CB's on their entire roster in 2020. If they were to land 5* CB's Jackson & Johnson- those dudes are starting as a true freshman in 2022.
If Harbaugh is keeping up in recruiting (as your post suggests that he is), then there is no need to rush his termination. The AD can give him another year to get it right and if he doesn't, the new guy will get a fully stocked roster. OTOH, if Harbaugh is NOT keeping up in recruiting then he needs to be terminated no later than the end of the 2020 season because if he isn't keeping up in recruiting them every year that you wait is that much worse for his eventual replacement.
Gotta find a place on the field for Milton. Maybe H-Back or something.He picked the wrong school. He needs to transfer. His physical tools are insane but he needs so much development as a passer and he was never going to get that playing for Jim Harbaugh at Michigan. Jim Harbaugh has proven he doesn't develop QB's. At all. Milton is so physically gifted, had he picked the right program where he'd have been developed as a passer, he'd have had a chance at being the #1 overall pick. Michigan wasn't that program.
I'm a huge fan of the guys with the giant arms- but only if they have the touch and accuracy to go with it.I feel like so many NFL GMs get enamored with "arm talent"--which is a horrifically stupid phrase--and focus less on the touch, accuracy, and even more importantly, decision-making of a QB in the draft.
I feel like so many NFL GMs get enamored with "arm talent"--which is a horrifically stupid phrase--and focus less on the touch, accuracy, and even more importantly, decision-making of a QB in the draft.
I assume they think that they can fix everything else but you can't grow a guy a new arm, but how often does it actually work out that way? Seems the NFL is full of draft busts where they pick the guy with the biggest arm and he can't actually operate an offense.
I feel like so many NFL GMs get enamored with "arm talent"--which is a horrifically stupid phrase--and focus less on the touch, accuracy, and even more importantly, decision-making of a QB in the draft.Get ready to see Troubleinsky back on the field for the Bears.
I assume they think that they can fix everything else but you can't grow a guy a new arm, but how often does it actually work out that way? Seems the NFL is full of draft busts where they pick the guy with the biggest arm and he can't actually operate an offense.
He was rated highly by Rivals and ESPN.Rivals and ESPN rated him a 4* because he was 6'6", 240 lbs, ran 4.6-4.7 and could throw a football literally 90+ yards and probably had the strongest arm of any QB in the last few recruiting cycles. Rated him all based on a physical skills and projection. In his 3-year high school varsity career playing QB he completed 47% of his passes for 35 TD's vs. 19 INT's. This isn't great. 247 was right. And I've said from the start I was unsure about Milton- just because he needed so much development as a passer.
247 had him as a 3*, at an 88 ranking. 4* in the composite. Perhaps 247 saw something that others did not.
No offer from OSU, Clemson, Bama, etc.
Get ready to see Troubleinsky back on the field for the Bears.Bears should've signed Cam Newton for $1 million, cut Trash-binsky and kept Foles as the back-up to Cam.
Get ready to see Troubleinsky back on the field for the Bears.A source told ESPN's Adam Schefter that the initial diagnosis was a hip pointer and that Foles was scheduled for more tests on Tuesday.
By the way- it was late and kind of meaningless and Michigan was already down what felt like 100 pts- but it's clear as day to notice the difference when McNamara was in vs Milton.My bold prediction is that he will start at some point this year, not be very good at all and the question will be if he catches a similar level of angst as Milton or if he gets that new starter pass until next year, when he catches the same level of flack.
McNamara can actually throw with touch and accuracy, and looks way more decisive in the pocket going through reads.
My bold prediction is that he will start at some point this year, not be very good at all and the question will be if he catches a similar level of angst as Milton or if he gets that new starter pass until next year, when he catches the same level of flack.Milton struggles reading defenses- which sure fine most young first year QB's do- and the offense/play-calling has been abysmal and done him no favors- but bottom line cold hard fact- Milton cannot accurately throw the football down the field. His accuracy is BAD. And he's just not a legitimate starting caliber B1G QB at the moment. And I've been saying from day one on this board that he was a project- and that Jim Harbaugh was not the guy to convert that project into finished, polished QB. Jim Harbaugh just flat out isn't a QB developer.
Milton struggles reading defenses- which sure fine most young first year QB's do- and the offense/play-calling has been abysmal and done him no favors- but bottom line cold hard fact- Milton cannot accurately throw the football down the field. His accuracy is BAD. And he's just not a legitimate starting caliber B1G QB at the moment. And I've been saying from day one on this board that he was a project- and that Jim Harbaugh was not the guy to convert that project into finished, polished QB. Jim Harbaugh just flat out isn't a QB developer.Then I predict you won't be happy with him.
Harbaugh has announced he's opening up the starting job to competition, and that McNamara and Milton will split the #1 reps in practice and the winner will get the nod vs Rutgers. My guess is that McNamara will win the job and be the starter going forward.
McNamara will catch flak if he plays bad- that's what happens when you're the QB at Michigan. Period.
McNamara is basically the polar opposite of Joe Milton as HS players/recruits. He has none of Milton's size or physical gifts and probably half the arm strength of Milton if that. McNamara is barely 6 ft tall, just has OK arm strength, isn't really that athletic- but in his 3 years starting in HS he completed 62% of his passes for 129 TD passes vs. 25 INT's. Now call me crazy- but that's A LOT better than Milton's 3-year HS varsity career of 47% of his passes in HS for 35 TD's vs 19 INT's. Call me crazy....but one seems A LOT more accurate/better decision maker than the other.
McCaffrey should've been the guy, but McNamara has to be the guy the rest of the way. If McNamara doesn't get it going the last few games here- have a hard time seeing him being able to hold off JJ McCarthy in 2021.
Then I predict you won't be happy with him.I have a feeling that I'll be a hell of a lot more happy with him than I have been with Joe Milton.
well the 2022 stuff is just rumblings so far- but insiders like Sam Webb and Steve Witflong are saying it's looking very good for Michigan right now for a pair of top 10 national players- and the #1 and #3 CB's in the entire country. That is a great news for a team that has literally no playable B1G CB's on their entire roster in 2020. If they were to land 5* CB's Jackson & Johnson- those dudes are starting as a true freshman in 2022.Michigan's all man coverage all the time defense is actually pretty good when you have elite corners. Back in 2018 Michigan's Defense looked really good that way up until tOSU and even that was more an issue of depth than anything else. Ohio State simply had too many good options to throw the ball to and Michigan only had so many good options to cover them with. Ohio State lit up Michigan because Michigan's LB's and third and fourth DB's weren't good enough to play man coverage against Ohio State's third, fourth, and fifth receiving options. If they pull in two elite corners and an elite QB then this is probably not a good time for a coaching change.
For the 2021 class they currently have the 9th ranked class in the nation, and have 4* WR Xavier Worthy- maybe the fastest HS player in the entire country coming in- and they also have 5* QB JJ McCarthy- definitely the best QB recruit Harbaugh has ever brought in during his run at Michigan. They are also very much in play for 4* Donovan Edwards, who is nipping at the heels of 5* status, and if his ranking even held he would be the highest rated RB that Harbuagh has brought in yet.
As sick and tired as I am of the guy- maybe just holding course is the only thing they can do at this point.
Michigan's all man coverage all the time defense is actually pretty good when you have elite corners. Back in 2018 Michigan's Defense looked really good that way up until tOSU and even that was more an issue of depth than anything else. Ohio State simply had too many good options to throw the ball to and Michigan only had so many good options to cover them with. Ohio State lit up Michigan because Michigan's LB's and third and fourth DB's weren't good enough to play man coverage against Ohio State's third, fourth, and fifth receiving options. If they pull in two elite corners and an elite QB then this is probably not a good time for a coaching change.You also need nickel corners and safeties with elite athleticism- which is something they don't have right now outside of Dax Hill.
You also need nickel corners and safeties with elite athleticism- which is something they don't have right now outside of Dax Hill.shoot fire, if you have two NFL quality lock down corners, the other 2 or 3 guys in the back end have it EASY
shoot fire, if you have two NFL quality lock down corners, the other 2 or 3 guys in the back end have it EASYMichigan had pretty good DB's from 2015-2019.
Why did Partridge leave? Because he got a DC job as co-DC?Same reason Mattison left. Better title, more money.
Michigan could have given him that.
You also need nickel corners and safeties with elite athleticism- which is something they don't have right now outside of Dax Hill.That depends on who you are playing. As @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) said above, if the top two are lock down guys then the rest have it easy.
That depends on who you are playing. As @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) said above, if the top two are lock down guys then the rest have it easy.
In 2018 Michigan had a substantial drop-off between DB #2 and DB #3 but against most opponents that didn't matter much because not many opponents have high end #3 receiving options. Ohio State did, obviously, and Florida too but that isn't the same thing as losing to a bad MSU team and getting rocked by Indiana.
DTs. As Urban said, that UM 2016 defense was the best he ever faced due to Mo Hurst and Co.It's a shame that Speight got hurt vs Iowa and they didn't have a legit back-up to him. It's a shame Speight was was even their starter in the first place actually. I really think had they been able to keep Rudock in 2016, they probably beat Iowa and Ohio State and go 12-0 in the regular season. I mean they lost to Iowa by 1 point on a last second FG after Speight got broken in half during that game. They were in command of that OSU game until Speight basically gave OSU 14 points and took 7 away from Michigan. Don't want to make it sound like I'm taking away credit from OSU. Speight was ass in that game though. Michigan is probably up 24-0 late in the 3rd QTR if not for Wilt the Stilt coughing up a snap with 1 yard to score a TD, throwing a pick 6 the series before buttfingers muffed said goal-line snap, and then throwing another INT that got returned all the way to the goal-line after a penalty was called on Michigan on the OSU INT return. That's a 21 point swing. Jake Rudock doesn't make those mistakes imo.
It's a shame that Speight got hurt vs Iowa and they didn't have a legit back-up to him. It's a shame Speight was was even their starter in the first place actually. I really think had they been able to keep Rudock in 2016, they probably beat Iowa and Ohio State and go 12-0 in the regular season. I mean they lost to Iowa by 1 point on a last second FG after Speight got broken in half during that game. They were in command of that OSU game until Speight basically gave OSU 14 points and took 7 away from Michigan. Don't want to make it sound like I'm taking away credit from OSU. Speight was ass in that game though. Michigan is probably up 24-0 late in the 3rd QTR if not for Wilt the Stilt coughing up a snap with 1 yard to score a TD, throwing a pick 6 the series before buttfingers muffed said goal-line snap, and then throwing another INT that got returned all the way to the goal-line after a penalty was called on Michigan on the OSU INT return. That's a 21 point swing. Jake Rudock doesn't make those mistakes imo.Can’t disagree. That was a NASTY defense. They were the better team. Buckeyes scratched and clawed and stole that one
That 2016 defense may have been the best I've ever seen at Michigan. They just put the clamps down on everyone. My only nit-pick is they should've started Devin Bush at MIKE and moved Gedeon to WILL and had McCray come off the bench to back-up both spots.
Two Deep DL was:
DE: Taco Charlton (1st rd pick), Chase Winovich (2nd rd pick)
DE: Chris Wormley (3rd rd pick), Rashan Gary (1st rd pick)
NT: Bryan Mone (UFA), Matt Godin (he was OK as a back-up, the weakest link)
DT: Ryan Glasgow (4th rd pick), Mo Hurst (5th rd pick- still ridiculous to me- he was a 1st rd talent)
Their DE talent was insane and their DT's were so underrated. Glasgow and Hurst were so fricken good and Mone was an immovable 340 pound force in the middle. Their top 6 guys on the DL were insane, Mone was really good too, and Godin kinda stunk but he was no worse than Carlo Kemp. Carlo Kemp is THE #1 guy for this years Michigan teams DT's. Godin was 4th best DT by far on that 2016 team. Kemp might've never gotten on the field for that 2016 team. Kind of goes to show you how far they've fallen. And it's pretty damning that this new staff has struggled to develop Chris Hinton and Mazi Smith. I know they are still young and DT's take time to develop, but Hinton was a 5* DT and Mazi Smith was a top 100 player in the nation. They need those guys to grow up in a hurry.
Who built and developed that DL in 2016? Greg Mattison. Boy are they are missing him badly right now.
Can’t disagree. That was a NASTY defense. They were the better team. Buckeyes scratched and clawed and stole that oneIf they would've had Jake Rudock back, Michigan would've been so much better. The offense and most importantly QB really has been the achilles heel of Harbaugh's entire tenure at Michigan.
Frost's Huskers would have run over it :)Frost wasn’t the player Tommie Frazier was. Not even close. I’ll take my chances.
Frost wasn’t the player Tommie Frazier was. Not even close. I’ll take my chances.I've always considered Cooper's six point loss to Michigan in Ann Arbor in 1997 to be his best performance against the Wolverines, even better than his two wins (1994 and 1998) and the tie (1992). What a defensive struggle that game was:
I think it would’ve been a real low scoring game and Michigan would’ve won maybe 10-7. Woodson was the ultimate x-factor in every game- he would’ve just made the big play to win the game- like he did all year that year. Michigan had the best defense in the country that year, by far, it wasn’t close, and they were led by the best defensive player in the country and arguably the greatest cornerback to ever play college football.
Frost wouldn’t have been able to complete a single pass on that defense. He was a shitty passer as is- and then going against a secondary like Michigan’s in ‘97 that had a pair of stud safeties in Tommy Hendricks and Marcus Ray- and then maybe the best cornerback to ever play college football in Charles Woodson- forget about it.
Woodson would’ve taken away half the field and Michigan could’ve just loaded the box. Michigan had the #1 defense in the country that year by basically every metric. They gave up only 206 yards per game on defense - #1 in the country, they allowed only 8.9 points per game- #1 in the country, they allowed only 3.3 yards per play- #1 in the country-, they gave up only 2.7 yards per rush- #5 in the country and gave up only 6 rushing touchdowns all season- #2 in the country, they had the #1 pass efficiency defense and they gave up only 4 pass TD all season- #1 in the country.
My two cents.
I've always considered Cooper's six point loss to Michigan in Ann Arbor in 1997 to be his best performance against the Wolverines, even better than his two wins (1994 and 1998) and the tie (1992). What a defensive struggle that game was:And if I recall- Katzenmoyer dropped a sure, short pick six very late in that game.
- The offenses only combined for three TD's and one of those was a 2 yard "drive" after a fumble. Basically each offense had one scoring drive all game long. Only one other drive all game went for more than 35 yards and that one was an Ohio State drive the ended in an interception.
- The teams combined for just 161 yards rushing. Ohio State had 119 on 41 attempts (2.9 avg) while Michigan was even worse with 42 yards on 42 attempts.
- The teams combined for just 280 yards passing. Michigan had 147 yards on 14-25 passing with no TD's and no INT's. Ohio State was even worse with 133 yards on 9-26 passing with a TD and TWO INT's.
- The Buckeyes had more total offense (252-189) and more yards per play (3.76-2.82) but they also had more turnovers (3-2) and gave up at Punt Return TD.
I've always considered Cooper's six point loss to Michigan in Ann Arbor in 1997 to be his best performance against the WolverinesAre you nuts 😁 At that time Joe Gemaine had the highest passing efficiency in the conference.Yet JC(not Jesus Christ) platooned him with Stanley Jackson who threw a pick from the 8yrd line costing at least 3pts.The Defense holds Michigan and they punt back to State.The very next play Stanley hits a wide open Michigan LB Weathers(the only player around) who runs the ball 20 yds for a UM TD.Jackson choked big time cost the Buckeyes 10 pts in a game they lost by 6.The pick he thru to Woodson never should have been thrown.Then Tennessee John puts Germaine back in with a 20 pt hole.Final 20-14
And if I recall- Katzenmoyer dropped a sure, short pick six very late in that game.I remember a PAT was blocked and he almost ran it back for 2pts.Many of us were beside ourselves it took 7 yrs for Johnny to beat Michigan - he should have been whacked long before that.
Were Nebraska and Michigan destroyed by the very BCS system that they ushered in?Possibly, for UNL anyway. Michigan was fine until they "fired" Lloyd. 3 bad hires later and here we are.
The main statistical outlier of the 97 UM vs 97 NU matchup is the Huskers' pass D. It wasn't good. However, Michigan reeeeally didn't like passing the ball (especially downfield).This is 100% correct. Griese's job was to not turn it over and let the defense win them the game. Michigan's defense only gave up 10 TD's thru 12 games in 1997. This is insanity. Which means as long as Michigan didn't turn the ball over- they were 99.9999999999% going to win the game.
If the UM coaches planned to pass more than usual from the start, I think it would be enough to help win the game. If they slowly discovered it over the course of the game and they reluctantly passed more and more, I don't think it would matter.
I believe, just from memory, that 97 UM's offense threw more to their RBs than any other team I've created for Whoa Nellie (~700 different teams over 50+ seasons). That means short, safe passes. Griese was good at avoiding losses because he wasn't put in a position to lose games.
Are you nuts 😁 At that time Joe Gemaine had the highest passing efficiency in the conference.Yet JC(not Jesus Christ) platooned him with Stanley Jackson who threw a pick from the 8yrd line costing at least 3pts.The Defense holds Michigan and they punt back to State.The very next play Stanley hits a wide open Michigan LB Weathers(the only player around) who runs the ball 20 yds for a UM TD.Jackson choked big time cost the Buckeyes 10 pts in a game they lost by 6.The pick he thru to Woodson never should have been thrown.Then Tennessee John puts Germaine back in with a 20 pt hole.Final 20-14I'm not saying it wasn't without mistakes but saying that it was "John Cooper's best performance against Michigan" is frankly a pretty low bar. In 1997 he went up against a REALLY good Michigan team and came up just short. That is way better than losing with the superior team which he did a LOT.
Peyton ran into Belichiks Patriots,he's hardly the only one to "choke".And in '04 I believe would have won had actual defensive holding/interference been called.Manning threw 4 or 5 INT's in that game. He was awful. I think it's hard to blame that all on a couple of uncalled PI/defensive holding calls. He was just awful in that game, by any measure.
Take that pick six away and Ohio State wins - they still have it on YT.Michigan wasn't marching up and down the field.Germaine was smart and took sacks rather than throw pix
Jackson's two picks were obviously devastating but it isn't like Germaine lit up Michigan's D. His sub 30% completion percentage and five sacks are abysmal. He had one long TD pass (56 yards to David Boston) and other than that he was:
- 4-16 25% for 28 yards (1.75 per attempt, 7 per completion), 0 TD, 0 INT, 32 yards lost on five sacks. Other than that one play he was net negative on the day with 28 yards gained on completed passes and 32 yards lost on sacks.
Manning threw 4 or 5 INT's in that game. He was awful. I think it's hard to blame that all on a couple of uncalled PI/defensive holding calls. He was just awful in that game, by any measure.NE DBs would have been arrested outside of the stadium
Were Nebraska and Michigan destroyed by the very BCS system that they ushered in?
Possibly, for UNL anyway. Michigan was fine until they "fired" Lloyd. 3 bad hires later and here we are.I don't think that the split title in 1997 had a lot to do with the creation of the BCS. The history on this goes back to WAY before that 1997 split between Nebraska and Michigan.
UNL and PSU not being able to play in 1994 started the ball rolling, I think.
(https://i.imgur.com/TrdISfO.png)Squeeze Franklin in there
Squeeze Franklin in thereHe looks like he's squeezing out a Franklin
So going off the Harbaugh/Frost thing.....how are Husker fans feeling about the Frost hire? I know the results haven't been great, but are you guys still optimistic? What's standing in the way of success? Is Frost the problem or is it more institutional?1. Wisconsin
1. Wisconsin
2. Location
3. Lack of recruiting in Texas
I'm not optimistic. I think it is clear Frost won't get it done. UNL is losing to teams that recruit at a level below UNL. Maybe the services are that wrong, but it feels like development is always a year away. Yet every March, UNL is at the top of the West... and every fall they are at the bottom.Ed Zachery
Every game is full of penalties, mental mistakes and frankly, head scratching calls. The defense feels misaligned... the back 4 don't seem to support the call of the front 7. UNL loves to blitz and play soft coverage. Offensively.... no rhythm. I don't see complimentary plays at all. It feels like they are guessing. And bluntly, this team today had zero passion to play.
It is year 3 and Frost's record is worse than Riley's. Nobody would have guessed that... everyone wanted Frost to succeed... but reality is smacking the program in the face. Majority of the team are his players at this point as well..
I hope the next coach plays a system similar to what Frost has recruited. I'm tired of the self probation... start over of switching systems.
I think you give too much credit to wisconsin. That would be true if Wisky was the reason Neb wasn't winning the west. UNL will be dead last in the West now... dead last.... That's not a Wisconsin issue.Well, then win just about every head-to-head recruiting battle lately, except Benhart, who saw no path early PT in Madison - otherwise he'd be there. And they win just about every head-to-head game.
Location is an issue, but ISU and Iowa have overcome. KSU is in better shape too. It's harder, but with UNL's resources, 3 years of losing seasons under Frost shouldn't happen.
Texas recruiting has hurt... UNL has always recruited nationally, but I don't believe they've found a replacement for the volume of talent out of that state on a consistent basis (not large #'s btw)
Could have Harbaugh, Frost and Franklin do some sorta triangular swap.That sounds dirty.
That sounds dirty.you're getting better
Could have Harbaugh, Frost and Franklin do some sorta triangular swap.Franklin might be up for it.
Well, then win just about every head-to-head recruiting battle lately, except Benhart, who saw no path early PT in Madison - otherwise he'd be there. And they win just about every head-to-head game.Honas came to UNL over Wisc. So not everyone. UNL has had higher recruiting rankings than Wisc for 6 or 7 straight years. The problems are bigger than Wisc. Now, if you want to admit that Barry Alveraz is a Judas, I'd agree with that... That is a problem for Nebraska. =)
Nebraska ran the ball down the throat of everybody they played in their heyday. They aren’t doing that anymore, and honestly I think running the football is dead. You need a modern passing game to win, or you’re screwed.
You need explosiveness on offense and a QB that can light up the scoreboard in today’s game- and that’s not Frost’s offensive style. Frost on offense was a run oriented guy. Same with Harbaugh and his “manball” run the ball bullshit.
Saban realized this and years after trying to fight and get rule changes- he said if I can’t beat them, I’m gonna join them- enter Tua and the complete reconfiguration of Bama’s offense.
Urban brought in Ryan Day to modernize the passing game, and Day has worked wonders there with Haskins and Fields.
LSU’s offense was a joke for 20 years. Then they got a transfer named Burrow and hired Joe Burrow to design and scheme the passing game and oh they only smashed NCAA pass records and won a chip. No big deal.
Need to throw the ball to win today.
Frost as HC Team Run/Pass Percentages (win%):In 2018 he had sr WR's... 2019 really lacked non-slot WR's.
2016 UCF: 54/46 (.462)
2017 UCF: 54/46 (1.000)
2018 UNL: 54/46 (.333)
2019 UNL: 63/37 (.416)
Two things:
1 - it's best not to look at "even" as being 50/50....nearly all teams run more than they pass, due to play-call outcomes based on late-game score. You pass a lot if you're behind with a chance to catch up, but you run a lot if you're ahead by a little or a lot, and if you're behind by a lot. Based on EXTENSIVE research on this, I set "even" at about 58/42. That's not scientific, just based on 1000+ team season ratios...it could easily be 56/44 or 60/40. But it's certainly not 50/50.
2 - a team's record does affect play-calling, as the more a team loses, the further from their ideal goal of run/pass ratio they tend to stray (towards pass). This makes the above pretty remarkable, that Frost's ratio remained the same through a losing season at UCF, an undefeated season at UCF, and a losing season at a new spot, Nebraska.
BUT, if you give any credence to my findings in #1 above, he's right in suggesting Frost has moved from being on the edge of balanced and pass-heavy (54/46) to the edge of balanced and run-heavy (63/37). But to suggest he's been anywhere near run-heavy before 2019 would be incorrect.
Yes, I watched Frost at UCF. They were a spread running team ala RichRod. That shit doesn't work. It's all about the PASSING GAME today. Frost wouldn't know shit about passing the football- he was a running QB who sucked ass at throwing the ball. He's a diehard believer in the run. Just like Jimmy H.Outside of Frost not being a great passer, I'm not sure I agree with your perspective. You must not have watch Milton throwing the ball... Nor did you watch Oregon when Frost was calling plays. They're dynamic offenses that stress the field sideline to sideline and vertically. That's what you want.
WR seems to be a position that a young guy can learn quickly and contribute earlyThis past week, the staff was talking about how tough it is to learn the position... Maybe it's too complex.
gotta be able to coach up a couple decent options in year 3
shoot!
Passing isn't as easy without those FL skill position kids running all over the place...this isn't exactly true.
Honas came to UNL over Wisc. So not everyone. UNL has had higher recruiting rankings than Wisc for 6 or 7 straight years. The problems are bigger than Wisc. Now, if you want to admit that Barry Alveraz is a Judas, I'd agree with that... That is a problem for Nebraska. =)Heh. UW offered only after they could see his grades for the semester at the JUCO. It was like 2-3 days before he committed to UNL. Not really a good example.
Gotta throw it all over the lot to win. Even Saban said so just last week. Nick said great defense doesn't win anymore. And he's right. He changed with the times and that's why his program never fell off.Frost is learning schemes/formations/alignments of the BIG.But he still needs to land more talent both stout and speed.IMO moving forward this will be UNL's problem,the facilities and the fanbase are great selling the prairie could be problematic
Ugly win in Piscataway but I’ll take it with three of Michigan’s starting OL out, both starting DEs out, and the best LB taken out due to an injury.This sounds like Sparty the last two seasons,dayum.Next week match up could turn into a good game to watch - both programs hopefully playing for pride and themselves
1. WisconsinYeah, this is hilariously arrogant.
2. Location
3. Lack of recruiting in Texas
Despite the loss Frost seems to have Nebraska moving in the right direction. The only thing I suggest he re-think are those black uniforms. Was that a first for Huskers?no, it was the 4th time UNL wore them.. Huskers are 0-4 in the uniforms.
no, it was the 4th time UNL wore them.. Huskers are 0-4 in the uniforms.I know they've worn black jerseys, but didn't they wear white pants?
Yeah, this is hilariously arrogant.It was more tongue in cheek, honestly. Wasn't meant to be arrogant.
Issue #1: Player development
Issue #2: Culture / player fit
...everything else.
It was more tongue in cheek, honestly. Wasn't meant to be arrogant.hah, Madison's location isn't much better than Lincoln's
I'd rather have a great QB and average WRs than the reverse.Amen. Brady made average WRs household names for 20 years in New England.
Maybe gimme a good tight end.
hah, Madison's location isn't much better than Lincoln'sI don't know about that. Wisconsin has almost 7 million people. Lots more instate kids to pick from, and considering Minnesota is also instate, the pool is even larger.
Badgers probably have fewer Texans on the roster as well
So going off the Harbaugh/Frost thing.....how are Husker fans feeling about the Frost hire? I know the results haven't been great, but are you guys still optimistic?I feel a little bit like Tommy Lasorda when asked about Dave Kingman's performance.
It doesn't HAVE to mean man, a lot of teams run Cover 0 in goal line situations, or 4th-and-1, which is why you get so many long TDs in that situation - no one is back there to slow them down.So, they can play zone in Cover Zero?
Nebraska ran the ball down the throat of everybody they played in their heyday. They aren’t doing that anymore, and honestly I think running the football is dead. You need a modern passing game to win, or you’re screwed.You might be right vis-a-vis winning an NC, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to be successful being a predominantly running team.
most Husker fans would be fine with matching Wisconsin's level in the West.The Illinois loss is concerning to me for Nebraska. Their four played games, chronologically:
the percentage that wouldn't be satisfied will never be satisfied
concerning for all Husker fansI really think it will come down to what Nebraska's D does against the Iowa run. If they can continuously put IA in 3rd and long situations to make Petras win or lose the game, Nebraska has a good shot. Petras will be a solid QB during his career but I don't think he is ready to take over any games. If IA's RBs keep running like they have been, it will be a long day for Nebraska.
need a strong effort against the Hawkeyes
or will get a huge beat down
I don't see any chance of a win, but perhaps can keep the game respectable 7-10 points
So, they can play zone in Cover Zero?Sure, it just means no one is covering deep. It'd be like a shallow "Cover 5", but that doesn't exist. It's referred to as a "shell," though.
There's sort of an irony that teams actually built around Tua's skill set never won a title. They couldn't do what Manball or Jake Coker or a team built to run the ball 62-plus percent of the time with Hurts could.
Saban realized this and years after trying to fight and get rule changes- he said if I can’t beat them, I’m gonna join them- enter Tua and the complete reconfiguration of Bama’s offense.
Bullshit cover zero is by design man-man coverage,you're digging up a different descriptions.Shell is a form of zone,show me a defensive playbook that has a scheme called cover zero zone or shellI'm curious how Cover Zero could be zone. Say I have three WRs, one in the slot, a typical arrangement, and two DBs and a safety to cover them in ZONE?
I'm curious how Cover Zero could be zone. Say I have three WRs, one in the slot, a typical arrangement, and two DBs and a safety to cover them in ZONE?Only thing I can think of is in a compressed situation where there is no "deep" routes available because it's in the red zone. You could have 6-7 defenders in a shallow zone.
How does that work? Maybe on goal line? Or fourth and one, but I'm talking about a normal play.
If you play a three man zone D, I'm going to have my guys just sit in an open area all day, or flood one side with two guys against your one.
I'm curious how Cover Zero could be zone. Say I have three WRs, one in the slot, a typical arrangement, and two DBs and a safety to cover them in ZONE?I literally specified goal line and 4th-and-1.
How does that work? Maybe on goal line? Or fourth and one, but I'm talking about a normal play.
If you play a three man zone D, I'm going to have my guys just sit in an open area all day, or flood one side with two guys against your one.
Obviously, you don't run Cover 2 on your own 5 yard line. Anyway, the term was new to me. And the Dawg QB hit a several long throws, and the Dawgs couldn't run worth spit. I infer MSU really sold out to stop the run, a good plan, and was vulnerable over the top.That could simply just be aggressive safety play - focusing too much on the QB and run game and not enough on being the deepest man.
The alignment isn't cover zero then.It's a man-zone hybrid scheme.Remember that - CALM DOWN when barging inIt's not a man-zone hybrid if it's some sort of all-out blitz.
S
HB HB
C FB
____E_ T__ _G ____G_ T _ E____
E T G C G T E
QB
HB FB HBRed Blaik? lolS
HB HB
C FB
____E_ T__ _G ____G_ T _ E____
E T G C G T E
QB
HB FB HB
I'm sorry you've never heard of Cover 0. Suggesting it doesn't exist is arrogant I guess. And odd to be arguing the point so much.It was not that cover zero doesn't exist. It's that cover zero zone may not exist.
It was not that cover zero doesn't exist. It's that cover zero zone may not exist.It definitely does in high school. Meh, I'm not bothered by it.
I imagine a good OC with a great QB makes for a lethal combo, as a competent OC can mix in plays that compensate for more average WRs, and a very good TE is a duh help. I suppose if the OL is porous if can render a great QB somewhat impotent.To go back to this, cover zero simply means no deep support. No players are tasked with either deep zone responsibilities or deep support for the corners in M2M coverage.
I heard the term "Cover Zero" from the Dawg QB, I had not heard that before, I understand the meaning, I'm not sure why the term had escaped me, maybe they just call it man to man otherwise? He was commenting that Miss State was in Cover Zero fairly often and that is why he went up top (duh).
Cover Zero sound like a name for a strip club.Heh. One near us had a sign up that said "Temporarily Clothed".
Cover Zero sounds like a name for a strip club.I'm guessing it wouldn't apply to the cover charge.
I'm guessing it wouldn't apply to the cover chargeYou couldn't resist and I'm guessing the owner wouldn't want man-man in a strip club
I understand Cover Zero as explained, I just don't see how you can play Cover Zero Zone.If they picked up a RB or TE entering their zone, they're still just playing zone.
If your safeties are "in the box", the could play zone close to the line once the QB fades back to pass. They aren't going to be able to help cover a streaking WR. The could pick up a RB on a wheel route or a TE of course, but then they'd be playing man.
To note, name calling including profanity will result in posts being deleted so as to avoid a furtherance of same.My hobby is getting called names on here. You must be deleting a lot of posts.
We often deviate from a topic, but if the discussion is reasonably cordial and on point, that's fine.
If a poster feels a need to call names and complain and add nothing else, it will be deleted.
Right, when I'm the perp, I'm an asshole. And when I'm the victim, I'm whining. Got it.This post does read whiny.
Speaking of firing coaches, Coach Smart is having to answer some questions, though he's not due to be fired (yet). USCe of course is without an HC and Tennessee fans are grumbling loudly. Vandy fans, both of them, are up in arms.Smart fascinates me. He was hired to to this particularly difficult thing, appeared to be doing it, starting doing a key prerec to doing it, and isn't doing it. He's a bit ahead of Richt in some ways, but he's actually expected to do what Richt couldn't. I wonder if he's only marginally better than his buddy Muschamp, who overachieved twice at USCe, disappointed but stayed above water in Year 3 (with some injuries) and then saw the bottom fall out with the talent he recruited. The bottom falling out at UGA might only be going 9-3/8-4, but they've fired folks for that.
What is your over/under for P5 programs who fire their HC this year?
This post does read whiny.
This post does read whiny.But it's not wrong.
Coming atcha from a van, down by the river...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ7oR5pRw5s&ab_channel=MichiganPodcast
Tom Osborne always pointed out that luck played a decent part of winning a MNCIndeed, UGA has been competitive in a few years past and missed out on a break or three here and there. Of course, in 1980, they had a TON of breaks, so maybe they used them all up.
even when he won a couple
How I envision the echo chamber meeting of the minds:
His posts are a lot funnier when you read them in the Cartman voice.
better to be lucky than goodI think today it takes both. You need to be good to make the playoff, with few exceptions, and those exceptions get weeded out in Round One nearly always. And if not they likely can't be lucky twice.
How I envision the echo chamber meeting of the minds:Looks like a Gator fan.
(https://i.imgur.com/nnt0YxJ.jpg)
I think today it takes both. You need to be good to make the playoff, with few exceptions, and those exceptions get weeded out in Round One nearly always. And if not they likely can't be lucky twice.many times it takes a little luck just to make the 4-team playoff
But, when facing another elite level team, it's about a 50-50 proposition.
Looks like a Gator fan.funny cause it's true. if this guy is wearing jean shorts- 100% Gator fan.
Gator Whisperer
(https://i.imgur.com/nnt0YxJ.jpg)
You'd have a point 10 years ago, but we've learned since then that this guy probably lives in rural Michigan.Nope. He's a Gator fan. Lives in the backwoods on BFE Northern/Central Florida.
many times it takes a little luck just to make the 4-team playoffYes, it can. Some very good teams have missed out, and a few mediocre teams got in, not so many of the latter.
I don't (yet) think Smart is a great coach. He's not a bad coach. He has a wealth of talent and is in the "almost" category now. He has made some curious calls.The question gets into, do we not read about them because they don't happen, or is there less holding kids accountable in public ways?
One thing I don't read about in Athens now is players constantly getting into trouble. At times it was rather trivial trouble, but it was a litany of troubles in the off season under Richt.
Yes, it can. Some very good teams have missed out, and a few mediocre teams got in, not so many of the latter.Essentially what's happened to Notre Dame twice now. Once in the BCS era and once in the CFP.
By mediocre, I mean a rather good team, but not an elite team. I think most of the picks have been elite or near elite, with a couple exceptions, who I think got walloped.
Imagine your team gets picked by dint of going 13-0 in a bad conference with several "lucky close wins" and then you face Bama/OSU/Clemson in round one.
Oops.
The question gets into, do we not read about them because they don't happen, or is there less holding kids accountable in public ways?The situations under Richt were with the Athens Police Dept in the main, which some fans claimed picked on players, or blacks, or whatever. They'd have 3-4-5 players suspended for two games for DUI or MJ or whatever.
The thing with Smart is he's there because 10-2 isn't good enough. He's had one very good year, and his next best season ... they got destroyed by a team without much passing game or lost close to a 4-8 team with no offense? It's not a super fair spot to be in, but that's the deal he had going in.
(https://i.imgur.com/BXFfRWk.jpg)What I imagine the one that calls this the “echo Chamber” looks like.(https://i.imgur.com/UoUwq9i.jpg)
Lives in a Metro area, and knows 2 words, but repeats them often:
RACIST RACIST RACIST!!
RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!
Cries a lot.
(https://i.imgur.com/fqtXpjs.jpg)Quit posting pictures of all your classmates
(https://i.imgur.com/nnt0YxJ.jpg)
Quit posting pictures of all your classmatesDude,
You're not very good a caricaturing me....you know, someone who has empathy for others. The ignorant aren't ignorant because of anything they've done. They've been indoctrined, exposed to one way of thinking, and populate echo-chambers of confirmation bias.Thanks for the lecture of pictures you post
But let's pretend I'm wrong.
You're not very good a caricaturing me....you know, someone who has empathy for others. The ignorant aren't ignorant because of anything they've done. They've been indoctrined, exposed to one way of thinking, and populate echo-chambers of confirmation bias.Well you asked for it. You were the one posting pics of guys (for no apparent reason honestly) that look a lot like Florida fans that I’ve seen in person over the years. I’ve been all over the state of FL- lots of guys look just like those pics you posted and are also huge Gator fans.
But let's pretend I'm wrong.
hey, watch the languageHey my SIL & BIL live in Gainesville
(https://i.imgur.com/BXFfRWk.jpg)What I imagine the one that calls this the “echo Chamber” looks like.Careful.
Lives in a Metro area, and knows 2 words, but repeats them often:
RACIST RACIST RACIST!!
RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!
Cries a lot.
Oh I wouldn't fire him. But I'm of the speculative opinion that he's gonna mess it up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just see it coming.
And yes, expectations are super high in Athens. And questions are being asked about why Daniels didn't play earlier. I'm not asking them because I realize I don't have enough information. Either I trust the HC, or I don't and think he should be fired.
I was ready for Richt to go. The Dawgs averaged 12 wins a year the past three years, so it wouldn't make sense to me to fire him.
Well you asked for it. You were the one posting pics of guys (for no apparent reason honestly) that look a lot like Florida fans that I’ve seen in person over the years. I’ve been all over the state of FL- lots of guys look just like those pics you posted and are also huge Gator fans.The choice to explain BFE is ... odd to me. I've usually heard bum for the B, but I've also never been to Egypt.
Ann Arbor is a wealthy, liberal college town just 25 mins from one of the busiest intl airports in the US, about 45 mins from a major US urban area, in a state that is historically Blue.
Gainesville is in the middle of nowhere in BFE Florida in a sea of rednecks, feels like light years away from civilization, and in a historically red state. Oh BFE = Butt Fuck Egypt in case you can’t guess.
It is always funny when someone who willingly submits to the trendiest ideology in the Western World accuses other people of being indoctrinated. Zero self awareness, right there.Double Bingo!
Dare I ask?
Anyone come across this guy's "other" videos? The ones he's more known for?
Well you asked for it. You were the one posting pics of guys (for no apparent reason honestly) that look a lot like Florida fans that I’ve seen in person over the years. I’ve been all over the state of FL- lots of guys look just like those pics you posted and are also huge Gator fans.There's a little blue dot in north-central Florida each election cycle. Guess what it is?
Ann Arbor is a wealthy, liberal college town just 25 mins from one of the busiest intl airports in the US, about 45 mins from a major US urban area, in a state that is historically Blue.
Gainesville is in the middle of nowhere in BFE Florida in a sea of rednecks, feels like light years away from civilization, and in a historically red state. Oh BFE = Butt Fuck Egypt in case you can’t guess.
It is always funny when someone who willingly submits to the trendiest ideology in the Western World accuses other people of being indoctrinated. Zero self awareness, right there.What's more trendy than Christianity?
There's a little blue dot in north-central Florida each election cycle. Guess what it is?Where you've been served restraining orders?
Being a leftist is trendy.
.
That is amazing. What is being a progressive then?
PROGRESS
Well many of us are pent up,stressed out and the pics are/maybe sarcasm.Good. I will take the sentiments around the posts as not serious or believed.
Oh I wouldn't fire him. But I'm of the speculative opinion that he's gonna mess it up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just see it coming.Smart could mess it up, or be there when it gets messed up, no doubt. As I said, I'm not convinced he is a great coach (yet), or even a very good coach. We're to the point with some fan bases that winning 12 games a year is simply not enough.
Where you've been served restraining orders?Huh?
You couldn't form your own independent thought if your life depended on it. You have fully assimilated to the Borg.Pot, kettle, blah blah blah
Where you've been served restraining orders?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Pot, kettle, blah blah blah
A smarmy 7 year old saying "I know you are, but what am I?" seems appropriate here.
How many of us have come with an entire ideology all by ourselves?C'mon between football/fishing/family/friends/food and keggers who has time for that.Forgot work & golf
How many of us have come with an entire ideology all by ourselves?Shhhh, don't bring clear thinking into this.
How many of us have come with an entire ideology all by ourselves?
C'mon between football/fishing/family/friends/food and keggers who has time for that.Forgot work & golfwork and golf are important!
Yeah, you are a "Libertarian" iirc. While that is certainly not "your own" ideology, you at least had to dig an inch or two beneath the surface in order to discover it.Again, this is a poor caricature. I'm a moderate and continue to be. Everything left of you isn't extreme lefty....it's simply the rest of humanity.
Being an outspoken Leftist on the internet, conversely, is about as unoriginal a message board persona as you can have. It brings absolutely nothing new or fresh to the table. I mean, whoa... militant political correctness! You Devil you! Way to really venture out on a limb, and stick your neck out. Mothers lock up yer daughters, we've got a Caucasoid SJW stereotype on the loose!
Just as I suspected. You couldn't even muster so much as a singular example of dissent from the Borg. All that you know how to do is just parrot MSM talking points like a GD pull string dummy. They just tell you what to think, then you think it; wash rinse repeat. Thank you for proving my point.Maybe come back and read this in a few days? You're not even pretending to be genuine. You've made up your mind. You're not interested in an actual discussion.
Carry on.
I imagine we've all met folks on line who claim to be moderates but their views are basically far to the right, or far to the left. I don't mean your typical conservative or liberal, but someone who thinks Fox News is way too liberal or MSNBC is way too conservative. This would be frightening.
And of course a fair number of folks are liberal on social issues but more conservative on fiscal issues. That doesn't mean they are moderates, it means they are "bipolar" in a sense. I'm somewhat like that myself, at times, but not at others.
Comic gold!
At the same time, I have encountered several educated Frenchmen who are very vocally racist in their attitudes in ways no one here would evince en famille.Stop It,Jacques
How many of us have come with an entire ideology all by ourselves?
I'd go deeper here and specify that it's against an established point of view that has evolved without purposeful improvements/checks.
The failure of coming up with your own ideology is that almost inescapably it always comes about as a reaction against an established point of view, like Christianity, and thus conversely validates the established point being rebelled against. The throes of fanaticism are blind to what’s truly inescapable: everything is ultimately a taking of the good with the bad. Religion, politics, economics, etc. But fanaticism persists because its promise of utopia, such as a caliphate or the abolition of private property, is alluring and highly reactive.
there's no shortage of special interest groups that would like to change the Constitution to fit their agendaThankfully they're not the decision-makers.
They revisit it and cornsider it regularly
(https://i.imgur.com/y188hZw.png)Does that creature have bacon strips for arms?
Do you think JH is fired at the end of this season, or do they give him a normal year?No way will he be fired. They love him.
Does that creature have bacon strips for arms?You haven't recently become vegan have You?That's one of the signs they 1st start fantasizing about
No way will he be fired. They love him.Fans are turning on him. But I don't think he'll be fired.
I agree JMO JH get's the final year,with 2020 being a complete shit show.Might as well make him earn it.Doesn’t matter what he does- he is staying.
I agree JMO JH get's the final year,with 2020 being a complete shit show.Might as well make him earn it.I can't imagine they'll let him be a lame duck. And I can't imagine they'll extend him.
He must hope they don't have to play Ohio State.Like resign while doing all the stuff involved in being fired or actually resign?
He could simply resign. Some ESPN wonks said the NFL would take him back.
Harbaugh to the Lions?Harbaugh to the Tigers, as team President?
Harbaugh to Mitch Albom's Otolaryngologist?
hell yes!
Had to copy and paste that one, eh?
So did I - Since Albom wrote those spiritual books thought it might be some kind of mystical seer.I don't think Jim has a clue anymore.He might be able to help out Pop Warner/CYO/Miiddle School teams but IMO that's about it
Had to copy and paste that one, eh?
Sounds like a major culture problem.Riley's very soft coddling culture
Riley's very soft coddling cultureWell, he's losing his own recruits left and right too. So, it's not all on Riley.
I'm guessing his own recruits didn't realize they were going to have to work to get a spot and were going to be held accountable along the way.so is that on the coaching staff who recruited them? what are they telling the recruits if they dont expect to come in and work for playing time?
They can go back to Florida and play for the Canes and the Noles where things are easier.
so is that on the coaching staff who recruited them? what are they telling the recruits if they dont expect to come in and work for playing time?Harbaugh has been through this as well. He's had lot of kids wind up disliking him and leaving early for NFL or transferring. You have to remember, the head coach isn't doing the majority of the recruiting- it's the assistants. Head coach will be involved in recruitments, but typically aren't the main recruiters. They'll talk on the phone here or there or meet them in person on visits- but they aren't the point man. It's the assistant that builds the relationship and gets buddy-buddy with the recruits.
so is that on the coaching staff who recruited them? what are they telling the recruits if they dont expect to come in and work for playing time?I don't think the Husker coaches are sugarcoating anything or making promises to these kids.
I'd also guess that some of these kids were sold on the UCF fairytale that it was going to be all roses, all winning, fun stuff being undefeated and destroying opponents.this is a great point too. it's easier for these kids to buy in when they are winning. Alabama, Clemson, Ohio St- everyone buys in because: they are always winning.
all glory
Harbaugh has been through this as well. He's had lot of kids wind up disliking him and leaving early for NFL or transferring. You have to remember, the head coach isn't doing the majority of the recruiting- it's the assistants. Head coach will be involved in recruitments, but typically aren't the main recruiters. They'll talk on the phone here or there or meet them in person on visits- but they aren't the point man. It's the assistant that builds the relationship and gets buddy-buddy with the recruits.Very rare to see a kid leave Madison. I think it's just that the coaches are really good guys that promote a culture that works for everyone.
Recruiting is about selling bullshit to stupid 17-18 year olds to get them to come. Getting them to come- and then keeping them there and getting them to develop and making them productive are two entirely different skill sets.
Very rare to see a kid leave Madison. I think it's just that the coaches are really good guys that promote a culture that works for everyone.Wouldn't doubt it. Wisconsin type culture is what every team should be aiming for.
I don't think the Husker coaches are sugarcoating anything or making promises to these kids.oh you are correct these young kids today all want the end result without the effort to get there it is a major problem and one that is a little scary to think what the next generation will be like as these young people as role models
I'd guess the kids have no F" ing idea what hard work is and are a bit surprised.
most kids adapt, adjust, and fight for playing time
some don't
I don't think the Husker coaches are sugarcoating anything or making promises to these kids.
I'd guess the kids have no F" ing idea what hard work is and are a bit surprised.
most kids adapt, adjust, and fight for playing time
some don't
in the defense of the Big Ten schools there is a higher level of education for those enrolled at a big ten school, than say UCF. there are classes that are accountable to and something called grades
James Laurentius was claiming on the radio that Frost told him that the players at UCF were really hungry to get better. He couldn't keep them out of the practice facility; Southern kids without much money who see football as their meal ticket. They were always trying to get better. When he got to Nebraska it was a bunch of lazy California kids who complained about having to go to practice. They didn't do a thing beyond what was demanded of them, and even then it was like pulling teeth.
Have to imagine that he's a bit humiliated over this.I totally agree. It’s a very public thing unfortunately. My Reed is there saying here’s a contract but less money and more based on performance versus salary, hire a new assistant coaches hint hint, or if you don’t feel good about this feel free to talk to any NFL team that’s interested in you. The ball is in your court
Have to imagine that he's a bit humiliated over this.They can pay me 5 mil and I won't feel the slight
looks like Johnnie Walker Black to me
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/l0MYMizgnsTpoMuoo/source.gif)
Have to imagine that he's a bit humiliated over this.I don't feel bad about this
looks like Johnnie Walker Black to me
I'll have one
At what point, as a fan, do you start hoping for total beat downs to ensure the coach is fired?I dunno Fielding that fascist took us behind the woodshed to the tune of 86-0 in 1902.I was there in another life.It's in my spiritual sojourn to see this fleecing avenged.
the "regular" is Red label
If that's the "black," then what does the regular look like? Vodka?
the "regular" is Red labelI heard Blue label is aged in Blackbeard's casket for 99 years...
liquid looks about the same
Blue is good, but too expensive. If I'm spending that coin, we are doing a fine single, like Lagavulin.Blue is great, but agreed way too expensive.
Sounds like 4* LB commit Jaydon Hood on the verge of flipping to Miami and 4* LB commit Branden Jennings on verge of flipping to Maryland.I would expect that Texas is having similar issues after their not-too-secret courting of Urban Meyer.
4* WR commit Xavier Worthy on verge of flipping to Bama.
In-state 4* DL Rayshaun Benny was a long time heavy M lean only to commit to MSU after Mel Tucker punked Harbaugh in his own house.
NJ 4* DT George Rooks who was a heavy M lean- all his CRYSTAL BALLZ flipping off Michigan to Boston College.
Also not looking good for high-4* in-state RB Donovan Edwards.
This recruiting cycle is on verge of disaster and about to turn into a garbage dumpster fire- and this was after Harbaugh really screwed the pooch on in-state recruiting with 5* DT Damon Payne and 4* OL teammates Rocco Spindler and Garrett Dellinger.
They have to either extend him now or get rid of him. Getting rid of him and getting someone in place quickly might actually help them have a Hail Mary desperation shot with Payne and Spindler in-state if they both don’t sign early. Payne’s head coach and family love Michigan but can’t stand Harbaugh- and biggest reason Spindler picked ND was because Harbaugh couldn’t give his family a straight answer on if Jim would be back beyond 2021. They didn’t want to play for a coach that wasn’t going to be there.
JayBaugh too?Yup. And rightfully so the guy hasn’t really done shit just has the job because of daddy. He’s the Meghan McCain of football coaches. Meritocracy my ass. Jim is a Middle Aged bloated fos weirdo.
Frost now has 20 losses at UNL. Mike Riley was fired after 19 (he went 19-19). Frank Solich was fired after 19 loses. He ended up 58-19 (still a big mistake and a huge "jump the gun" by the AD). Bob Devany retired at 101-20-2, for perspective.Yup. Lost a quality HC. Lost their identity.
Sumlin's gone, after the skull-f*cking ASU gave the Wildcats.Someday, the fall of Sumlin will make a somewhat sad story, I think
Someday, the fall of Sumlin will make a somewhat sad story, I thinkWhy is that?He's made millions being a meh HC,he can't be too broken up.Maybe he'll land at a mid major he's had his shot with some what Big Boys
Why is that?He's made millions being a meh HC,he can't be too broken up.Maybe he'll land at a mid major he's had his shot with some what Big BoysI believe there are some behind the scenes personal issues. Was at the top, undone by those. Impulsively took the next job because he thought the chance might not come again.
Schiano inherited the worst P5 team in the nation, and in year one he could already have beaten Frost's Huskers if they had played.He is a fascinating case because by the end, Ohio State fans wanted to pack him in a rocket and lunch him as far away as possible, but in the right spot, he delivers the overachieving downtrodden program desires.
Schiano inherited the worst P5 team in the nation, and in year one he could already have beaten Frost's Huskers if they had played.he might get his chance
he might get his chanceI was just going to say that, RU/UNL is a not-unlikely game.
I hope he does
Yes, many d-coordinators make poor HCs, but he is the other way around. Great HC that can't D-coordinate his way out of a paper bag.It's odd that Schiano was hired to fill the DC position when Chris Ash left as the new HC @ Rutgers
It's odd that Schiano was hired to fill the DC position when Chris Ash left as the new HC @ Rutgers
Ohio State fans wanted to pack him in a rocket and lunch him as far away as possible,Not everyone,he had 2 top ten defenses and was a good recruiter.URBZ just had a swirling vortex around the program.Off field stuff and hiring Grinch as a co-DC wasn't a good idea IMO it appeared as the skids were getting greased for his exit.Then Grinch leaves for the Sooners and Tennessee recants on his hiring and he unfairly gets tarred/feathered for the PSU situation simply because he was an assistant.So kind of a unstable shit storm he had to return to in C-Bus.Urban liked him when he coached and as a commentator,I'm glad he gets a shot at redemption.He's a Jersey guy and knows where the talent is on the coast - prodigal son if you will
The Gus Bus looks to be available. That's got Illinois written all over it.Insane that they fired him and paying him out a $21.5 million buyout- this doesn’t include any of the assistant buy outs.
Isn't liberty a faith based school?If so it seems odd they'd hire guys with specific baggageLiberty is decidedly in the Righteous Gemstone camp of faith.
Isn't liberty a faith based school?If so it seems odd they'd hire guys with specific baggageYou must live life with your eyes closed and ears plugged. It seems PREDICTABLE they'd hire a guy with that baggage.
Liberty is decidedly in the Righteous Gemstone camp of faith...and their biology classes are a hoot!
Illinois should take a flyer on Mangino.If they're smart, they go option and become a pain in everyone's ass.
Not everyone,he had 2 top ten defenses and was a good recruiter.URBZ just had a swirling vortex around the program.Off field stuff and hiring Grinch as a co-DC wasn't a good idea IMO it appeared as the skids were getting greased for his exit.Then Grinch leaves for the Sooners and Tennessee recants on his hiring and he unfairly gets tarred/feathered for the PSU situation simply because he was an assistant.So kind of a unstable shit storm he had to return to in C-Bus.Urban liked him when he coached and as a commentator,I'm glad he gets a shot at redemption.He's a Jersey guy and knows where the talent is on the coast - prodigal son if you willI recall that last year grating on people. He kinda caught the same bug that one OC got in 2015.
If they're smart, they go option and become a pain in everyone's ass.No one is hiring an option coach. While it would be neat, Georgia Tech was the trial balloon and it didn't work.
I believe Mark is retired. He's 64. His last job ended with a midseason firing at Iowa State. Weird career he had.
No one is hiring an option coach. While it would be neat, Georgia Tech was the trial balloon and it didn't work.I think it did "work". I think programs like Tech and Army and Vandy SHOULD hire option coaches.
Paul Johnson won 58% of his games there. Same as the guy before hmi. Had a .750+ season once every 4 years. Who is going to do much better than that?
No one is hiring an option coach. While it would be neat, Georgia Tech was the trial balloon and it didn't work.Bowled nine times in 11 years, won one of three conference titles since 1952, tied for fourth-best winning percentage in program history. Paul Johnson did pretty good, maybe uncharitably just fine. Illinois has bowled five times since 2002.
Speaking of options, Jeff Monken is a guy on Illinois' radar. Lovie Smith is known for ignoring Illinois high school football, so there is some push to hire a guy from Illinois. Monken and also Kent State's Sean Lewis fit that bill.Sean Lewis wouldn't be bad. Good Wisconsin boy.
If they're smart, they go option and become a pain in everyone's ass.Fearless Frankie Solich is only 76
I believe Mark is retired. He's 64. His last job ended with a midseason firing at Iowa State. Weird career he had.
Fearless Frankie Solich is only 76Yep, the job he's done there has been quite good. That job is historically awful.
Of course Solich doesn't run the option anymore.That's true. They run a power pistol offense with plenty of QB run game, at least they have in recent years.
Gailey (the guy before him) never won more than 9 games and couldn't beat UGA (0-6). Johnson won 10 games twice and beat UGA 3 times. His highs were higher and lows were lower. For a program that can't realistically expect sustained success, having some peaks in there is better, no?
"Same as the guy before him" means that it didn't improve their lot at all. It made no difference.
Why did Illinois hire Tim Beckman? Peaked with 8 wins at Toledo...and that gets him the Illinois job?? Zook and Smith were retreads, so I think they should get the up-and-comer, and one that's done better than 8-4.Hot MAC coach syndrome.
Who were the top HCs out of the Mac?Like the best all-time or the ones who've made the jump of late?
Saban and Meyer obviously. Woody and Bo, if we are going way back.
Glen Mason and Gary Pinkel were fine.
Matt Campbell is the "big name" today.
Gailey (the guy before him) never won more than 9 games and couldn't beat UGA (0-6). Johnson won 10 games twice and beat UGA 3 times. His highs were higher and lows were lower. For a program that can't realistically expect sustained success, having some peaks in there is better, no?Actually they should Illinois is a good football state with 12.5 million.Many go to ND,UM,tOSU or other places.Fence it in,lock it down and they will come
Bill Mallory was pretty decent.Back in the day I was hoping tOSU would hire him,before and during Bruce/Cooper.IMO he could have made some noise at a Top 10
Actually they should Illinois is a good football state with 12.5 million.Many go to ND,UM,tOSU or other places.Fence it in,lock it down and they will comeI was talking about Georgia Tech.......
Actually they should Illinois is a good football state with 12.5 million.Many go to ND,UM,tOSU or other places.Fence it in,lock it down and they will comeHard to do. Chicago as a city doesn't really have any real affinity for the Illini -- it's a pro sports town and it's a magnet for the rest of the Midwest so college affiliation is mixed from the entire region. And Chicago is where all the talent is.
Like the best all-time or the ones who've made the jump of late?
If it's the first, you can add Don James, Don Nehlen.
Pinkel won 191 career games, which is kinda bonkers to think about. Bill Mallory was pretty decent. Brian Kelly has a very good but not great resume. Jim Grove was in the fine category.
It's interesting how most high-end folks just coach at so few places.
Ahh horsefeathers. I was looking at the CFB reference list, and they don't list the MAC until 1962. A lot also go MAC, somewhere else, then bigger job. Like almost no one goes MAC to Michigan.
Yeah, not Mac lifers but P5 coaches that made the jump.
Ara Parsegian, Randy Walker....
Hard to do. Chicago as a city doesn't really have any real affinity for the Illini -- it's a pro sports town and it's a magnet for the rest of the Midwest so college affiliation is mixed from the entire region. And Chicago is where all the talent is.I remember those Illini Defenses with Howard,Hardy and Rice in the mid '90s - they were fookin' good
Of course Solich doesn't run the option anymore.but, he does have it in the library and could run if if needed
Then Edwards might hit the portal faster than a holeany kid signing early with Michigan at this point is picking the school and not the coach. They have to know ahead of time there’s a real chance the guy isn’t going to be there.
ND defensive coordinator Clark Lea going to coach VanderbiltComing off a tenure that didn't really work in terms of what Mason was hired to do, they hire a very similar guy.
would suck for long suffering Lions fanswould be funny seeing how MSU fans literally hate the guy and so does half the Michigan fan base right now
I’ll be cool with keeping Harbaugh if he takes a hatchet to his staff and decides to not wear a headset anymore.This feels like triage. He's been rejiggering that offensive staff every few years. It's gotten worse. Maybe getting a pair of former players clicks things in, but when you get to this point, I'm not sure you can coach your way out until you beat OSU.
Fire Don Brown and the entire defensive staff.
If you’re going to keep Gattis make him coach WRs and give him the Co-Oc title in name only.
Go hire Nick Sheridan and Mike Hart from Indiana- would be a GREAT start in fixing this shit bag offense. Sheridan has proven he can really coach QBs and Hart has proven he can really coach RBs.
This feels like triage. He's been rejiggering that offensive staff every few years. It's gotten worse. Maybe getting a pair of former players clicks things in, but when you get to this point, I'm not sure you can coach your way out until you beat OSU.His record is basically the exact same as Dabo Swiney in Dabo’s first 6 years.
Might be best to reset. That's a fact of life in the sport. You need to be better or different, and he might be out of chances for better.
His record is basically the exact same as Dabo Swiney in Dabo’s first 6 years.Outside my sort of general disdain for one of those terms, the bolded basically makes me say, if that's the case, then any argument for keeping him seems like triage.
Who are they going to find better right now? They might as well extend him and make the buyout basically non-existent so they can fire him if he doesn’t bounce back in a big way in 2021.
Harbaugh’s offensive staff has sucked donkey dick. There have been years where they didn’t have a WR coach or QB coach or RB coach. Is this normal? I don’t think it is. Sheridan has developed QBs at Indiana and Mike Hart has developed RBs. Something Harbaugh and his staff flat out aren’t doing at Michigan.
Both those guys would die to coach at Michigan if given the opportunity. They both bleed maize and blue.
The rejiggering isn’t the problem. Harbaugh is the problem. He has never taken his hand out of the cookie jar in 6 years. He is heavily involved in the offense. And he’s basically an offensive retard when it comes to football. Brandon Jacobs wasn’t lying about the guy.
Outside my sort of general disdain for one of those terms, the bolded basically makes me say, if that's the case, then any argument for keeping him seems like triage.Hey I'm with you. I think he's got to go. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. The old dog has got to want to adapt- see Saban. I'd get rid of him. But I don't make the decisions. They are keeping him. The ball is in Jim's court, he can either reject the lower offer they have reported floated his way or find an NFL team- if one will have him that is. From all reports, Michigan won't be firing him. Unfortunately. I'm just trying to figure out the best case scenario.
That Dabo had the same record is somewhat immaterial. He went 11-2 in year 6 and 10-3 in Year 7. Michigan ain't near that. And yes, Dabo in Year 3 took the rare route of getting more hands off on offense, but he was always a monster recruiter and worked well with their scheme to pay recruits.
Maybe the answer is to just keep the powder dry, keep a "problem" who is an offensive coach whose offensive chops you generally detest. But chances are, it's not gonna work. It's nice to bring in IU's offensive staff that played at Michigan and really wants to come back. But I've seen them roll in a smattering of name assistants, and it's yet to produce teams that make folks happy.
Let me put it this way. Each of the past few years, you've torched the guy. Again and again and again. If that's the case and he's the problem, then another year is almost assuredly not going to fix that. It's wishful thinking. And I suppose it’s fine to endure an extended lame duck stretch until you think a better candidate is good, but that’s what it’s gonna be. It’s possible he suddenly snaps to it, but at this point, it would basically be an accident of faith more than a plan.
2016 | 53 |
2017 | 44 |
2018 | 54 |
2019 | 47 |
2020 | 47 |
Another good option with Midwestern connections in Bret Bielema. I thought Bret would be the next football coach at Iowa, but now he is about 50, and I see Coach Ferentz hanging around another 6-years or so.Put the crack pipe down. Harbaugh aint going anywhere and Bret Bielema will never be hired as Michigan’s head coach.
Bielema, when he was an assistant at Iowa, was known as an outstanding recruiter. Maybe not so much at his current station in life.
He coached the Badgers to a level of success that exceeded their Dear Leader's success. I am thinking Bielema at Midwestern school would do well. And since he has coached in the professional ranks it may give top ranking recruits reason to believe they would have connections to the NFL. I have no idea what possessed Bielema to transfer to Arkansas, other than a brain fart.
At Wisconsin Bielema was 68-24. At Arkansas, Bielema was 29-34. Arkansas is 7-27 since Bielema was dismissed. So I am thinking that despite some brain fog for his decision to leave Wisconsin, Bielema could still coach and do well in the Midwest.
I am going to make the case for Matt Campbell to be head football coach at a helmet school.well, if his only other coaching interests are Ohio State and Notre Dame... he'll just sit in Ames and torture Oklahoma and Texas until one of the coaches at his preferred schools fails.
well, if his only other coaching interests are Ohio State and Notre Dame... he'll just sit in Ames and torture Oklahoma and Texas until one of the coaches at his preferred schools fails.Not unless Michigan gets him first.
could be 5 or 6 years
Put the crack pipe down. Harbaugh aint going anywhere and Bret Bielema will never be hired as Michigan’s head coach.That's a bit course but I can't see BB landing in AA - ever.He popped off at opponents and his former employer at every opportunity,when there was no reason or provocation to do so.And in every instance it blew up in his face and circled around and bit him in the ass.BB proved to be an over zealous frat boy that didn't learn with time/experience.He and that troubled tart raked UW for absolutely no reason like Don Quixote charging a wind mill thinking it a dragon.Howled about Ohio State not playing anyone then later in the week loses @ home to Toledo who was with out their QB or MVP Kareem Hunt.A program tOSU never lost to .But if Charlie Weiss can get more chances I can see miguided souls giving him a shot
Bielema probably wishing he never left Wisconsin right about now.I dunno with his bank account the only reason to go back would be to repair PR
well, if his only other coaching interests are Ohio State and Notre Dame... he'll just sit in Ames and torture Oklahoma and Texas until one of the coaches at his preferred schools fails.
could be 5 or 6 years
Mike Hart has developed RBs.Genuine question, not trying to flame: Is there still bad blood between Hart and Harbaugh? Didn't Hart take some kind of shot at Harbaugh once? I think it was LONG ago so maybe not an issue, just curious.
Both those guys would die to coach at Michigan if given the opportunity. They both bleed maize and blue.
that could change
One person that he won't be torturing by staying in Ames is Kirk Ferentz.
Bielema probably wishing he never left Wisconsin right about now.he's gainfully employed, right
Genuine question, not trying to flame: Is there still bad blood between Hart and Harbaugh? Didn't Hart take some kind of shot at Harbaugh once? I think it was LONG ago so maybe not an issue, just curious.
he's gainfully employed, rightSome would say he enjoyed it a little too much.
out of the spotlight, doesn't have to kiss ass
and didn't seem to enjoy his time as head man in Madison
Get your licks in.So by your narrative tOSU shouldn't bother playing Clemson,Right?
One person that he won't be torturing by staying in Ames is Kirk Ferentz.
Mike Hart called Jim out because Jim trashed Michigan publicly in a self-serving way in order to help in recruiting.
Both guys went too far.
Mike Hart is an ascending college coach, he can recruit and he can really coach RBs. I really think head coach is in his future one day. I could see him being a hell of a head coach.
Got 2 words for Mike Hart - Little Brother,practice what you preach.Most Student-Athletes Sunday bound dabble in general studies.Which given the time for training/practicing/playing is understandable
“That’s a guy I have no respect for,” Hart said. “You graduate from the University of Michigan, and you’re going to talk about your school like that, a great university like we have? To say that we’re not true student-athletes? I don’t know if maybe he wants to coach here and he’s mad because he didn’t get a job.”
“He says we don’t have great student-athletes, but he just accepted one of our transfers,” Hart said. “What kind of sense does that make? Obviously, he wants guys like us at his school. I don’t know how he can say that. He’s not a Michigan man. I wish he’d never played here.”
The Little Brother quote still inspires MSU to play out of their minds that week, to this day. Could you imagine if that clip that they watched over and over was of Michigan's actual HC?Meh. Hart was one of the smartest, toughest, most competitive players I've ever seen at Michigan pound for pound. He's bringing that to his college coaching career and it rubs off on his players. He didn't have the NFL body of Chris Perry or the 4.3 speed of Tyrone Wheatley, but he just might be the best back to ever play at Michigan. Fought his ass off for every extra inch, was an able pass catcher and pass blocker from day one as a true frosh. He came into Michigan a 3*, 5'8, 180 frosh RB that ran a 4.7 and left it as maybe the most complete, reliable, tough RB they've ever had.
I am wondering when Day might get on a hot seat, or rather, what it would take for that to happen.Well it doesn't take much. Half the fanbase wanted to tar and feather Tressel for losing to top five teams more often than he beat them. Then those same fans wanted to cast Urban aside and promote Tom Herman before someone else hired him away.
I am wondering when Day might get on a hot seat, or rather, what it would take for that to happen.Lose to UM, lol.
Well it doesn't take much. Half the fanbase wanted to tar and feather Tressel for losing to top five teams more often than he beat them. Then those same fans wanted to cast Urban aside and promote Tom Herman before someone else hired him away.there isn't a more crazy fan base in CFB than OSU.
Mike Hart called Jim out because Jim trashed Michigan publicly in a self-serving way in order to help in recruiting.FWIW:
Both guys went too far.
Mike Hart is an ascending college coach, he can recruit and he can really coach RBs. I really think head coach is in his future one day. I could see him being a hell of a head coach.
Meh. Hart was one of the smartest, toughest, most competitive players I've ever seen at Michigan pound for pound. He's bringing that to his college coaching career and it rubs off on his players. He didn't have the NFL body of Chris Perry or the 4.3 speed of Tyrone Wheatley, but he just might be the best back to ever play at Michigan. Fought his ass off for every extra inch, was an able pass catcher and pass blocker from day one as a true frosh. He came into Michigan a 3*, 5'8, 180 frosh RB that ran a 4.7 and left it as maybe the most complete, reliable, tough RB they've ever had.To this point, my general observation is that the freakishly gifted athletes generally don't make good coaches. I think it is because with they are able to compete and win based on their freakish athleticism so they don't have to learn to get the most out of themselves the same way that a less gifted athlete does.
To this point, my general observation is that the freakishly gifted athletes generally don't make good coaches. I think it is because with they are able to compete and win based on their freakish athleticism so they don't have to learn to get the most out of themselves the same way that a less gifted athlete does.Most "great" baseball managers were minor league also rans as players.
there isn't a more crazy fan base in CFB than OSU.While possibly true, they're so very rarely tested. Like, the could moan about Tress not winning titles, but they didn't go do anything about it.
The Florida job put UM in the hospital. Is that rabid enough? Spurrier left because ending the year ranked 3rd with an Orange Bowl blowout win wasn't enough for the fanbase, because the Gators didn't win the SEC or Nat'l titles.Agreed. I don't deny that the tOSU fanbase can be crazy but we are hardly alone in that.
Yeah, I was thinking something like, in successive years, going 11-2, 10-3, 9-3, 10-3, 10-3, with a couple losses to the team up north, and maybe one B1G crown.Hell, those results are probably a fireable offense in Columbus.
He might not get fired for that, but there would be noise.
Who wants that job?
Who ya gonna hire?but, it very rarely is
Should be THE question before firing any HC.
Yeah, he'd basically be Earl Bruce in that scenario.True, but they didn’t fire Earl Bruce until it actually hit the fan.
The Florida job put UM in the hospital. Is that rabid enough? Spurrier left because ending the year ranked 3rd with an Orange Bowl blowout win wasn't enough for the fanbase, because the Gators didn't win the SEC or Nat'l titles.Ehh, Urban put Urban in the hospital, and Steve went to get a better job.
True, but they didn’t fire Earl Bruce until it actually hit the fan.That's true of about every HC that they have had since Paul Brown.
Ehh, Urban put Urban in the hospital, and Steve went to get a better job.Spurrier didn't obsess over recruiting because he didn't need to. In the 90s, Tennessee was always beating us in February, but we always seemed to win in September.
I don’t know it put that job higher than fourth or fifth in the old SEC. Bama fans will buy you into NCAA trouble. Arkansas fans will go through you’re texts. Tennessee fans will get Derek Dooley a top-10 class.And that’s not even touching A&M fans and those folks at Auburn.
Spurrier did benefit from being around pre recruiting rankings. He was slack there, but the state produced and he was brilliant. Of folks back then knew how he rolled, oh boy. (Granted, UF has had back to back so-so recruiters now)
Spurrier didn't obsess over recruiting because he didn't need to. In the 90s, Tennessee was always beating us in February, but we always seemed to win in September.Didn't need to have undefeated seasons either.
Genuine question, not trying to flame: Is there still bad blood between Hart and Harbaugh? Didn't Hart take some kind of shot at Harbaugh once? I think it was LONG ago so maybe not an issue, just curious.No idea but I’d love to see Hart coaching RBs at Michigan. Not likely to happen because Harbaugh’s son is coaching RBs the last two years.
Didn't need to have undefeated seasons either.Another thing that helped Spurrier there is that Florida didn't have all that much success pre-Spurrier. A coach at Florida today is going to be compared to Spurrier and Meyer just like a coach at Bama or tOSU is going to be compared to Bear and Saban or Woody and Meyer.
Let me put it this way, if we were in an era when you could see Tennessee beating them every year in Feb, with the relaxed attitude he took on that front, it would be an issue for a super crazy fanbase. I think Steve approached the sport in a healthier way than most, but we were talking about fanbases that by nature are not healthy.
there isn't a more crazy fan base inFIFY,SEC has more than a fewCFBthe BIG than OSU.
Another thing that helped Spurrier there is that Florida didn't have all that much success pre-Spurrier. A coach at Florida today is going to be compared to Spurrier and Meyer just like a coach at Bama or tOSU is going to be compared to Bear and Saban or Woody and Meyer.But he should have recruited harder! LOL
Per Wiki, Florida has won:Steve Spurrier started coaching them in 1990 prior to which their trophy case contained his Heisman trophy and not much else. No NC's, no SEC titles.
- 3 NC's: 96, 06, 08
- 8 SEC Titles: 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 00, 06, 08
I don't think Florida fans had nearly the level of expectations back in 1990 that they have now. Think about that for a minute, Florida's first five SEC titles came in a six year period of Spurrier's 2nd through 7th years. Spurrier's Gators also had the best record in the SEC in his first year, 1990 but they were ineligible due to NCAA violations by the previous regime.
In Spurrier's first seven years as coach at UF they:
- Won five SEC titles
- Finished first but ineligible once
- Went to the inaugural SECCG and lost by a TD to the eventual NC Bama
- Won their first NC
That would be a wildly impressive first seven years at an already established "helmet" program. To do that at a program that had as little pre-1990 history as Florida did is just unbelievable.
The first two polls of 1990 were conducted before Florida played a game. They were unranked in both. On September 8, 1990 they hosted OkSU in a battle of unranked teams. That was the last time Florida fans watched their team take the field unranked until October 19, 2002.
From the dawn of the AP Poll in 1936 until Spurrier was hired UF had:In Spurrier's 12 years they had:
- 196 total AP appearances (29.3% of 670 polls)
- 58 top-10 appearances (8.7% of 670 polls)
- 1 #1 appearance (0.1% of 670 polls)
- 201 total AP appearances (99% of 203 polls and the only two they missed were before they played a game)
- 177 top-10 appearances (87.2% of 203 polls)
- 24 #1 appearances (11.8% of 203 polls)
That changes expectations a LOT!
To be specific, Florida had won the 1984 SEC championship, but it was voted away after rules violations. And then again in 85, the Gators finished in first, but weren't eligible.LoL.
Cheating! It works!
But he should have recruited harder! LOLI get where you are coming from, but my point is that UF's fanbase would NOT be as forgiving about that now as they were in the 1990's when Spurrier was giving them their first taste of the promised land. When you have never won an NC and your only two best finishes in the SEC were a vacated title and an ineligible year and your HC is winning SEC titles every year and competing for NC's almost every year and winning one, you are going to give him a LOT of leeway. That is NOT Florida's situation now. Now they have two previous NC winning coaches, 3 NC's, and a slew of SEC titles. That is now the basis of comparison for whomever is HC in the Swamp.
But he should have recruited harder! LOLSpoken like a fanbase that is not in fact that crazy, which is where this started.
Spoken like a fanbase that is not in fact that crazy, which is where this started.Alright, maybe we're just arrogant instead of crazy. Especially my age group, whose true fandom happened to coincide with Spurrier's arrival.
I think Steve was awesome and great, a savant and a star. But a fanbase that puts a coach in a hospital with stress doesn't see all that, they see the little bit more that could've been, and then they rue what was missed. Because they're crazy.
And the face that UF fans are a little more chill, that's fine, probably good. I live near a have-not SEC school, and their irritation at their station might well make them crazier than the Gators.
Alright, maybe we're just arrogant instead of crazy. Especially my age group, whose true fandom happened to coincide with Spurrier's arrival.I think that's a good word for it. It's maybe a hint more detached at times. Like, you look down on an 11-win team that can't score, but you're not trying to give the coach $30 million to get out.
That's a weird sentence in context.
We're a late 4th-quarter fumble and a shoe toss away from being undefeated. That's a weird sentence out of context.
Harbaugh and AD Warde Manuel meeting today to discuss the contract. Here. We. Go.Yawn. They settled everybody down by not losing the three last games thereby keeping the recruiting class respectable. There’s not much to discuss.
Yawn. They settled everybody down by not losing the three last games thereby keeping the recruiting class respectable. There’s not much to discuss.Yeah, unfortunately this is correct.
What if the AD just doesn't offer an extended contract? Why would he need to?would make the recruiting in 2022 virtually impossible.
I think that's a good word for it. It's maybe a hint more detached at times. Like, you look down on an 11-win team that can't score, but you're not trying to give the coach $30 million to get out.Well no. But now you're saying "crazy" is synonymous with "stupid."