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Topic: Misfits Thread

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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2436 on: June 02, 2020, 01:37:38 PM »
I can think of a few things:

  • Implement a more complete review of police with chronic complaints to try to weed out the bad apples before something like this happens.
  • Take the decision of charging/not charging police out of the hands of the DA in the case of police brutality. It should be put in the hands of an independent board.
  • Implement completely anonymous whistleblower systems and strengthen whistleblower protection for individual officers. I continue to believe that there are a lot of officers who hate these bad apples but feel powerless to stop it without ostracizing themselves from their colleagues.

A major problem with a lot of these are that they need to be implemented locally. It would be more helpful to have independent federal oversight of some of these things, but as the police powers are generally state/local, trying to implement a federal police excessive force oversight capability might be questionable from a Constitutional standpoint...


I like this 

maybe a third party review board of police complaints would be practical 
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2437 on: June 02, 2020, 01:39:01 PM »
Reminder that metaphor was used fur suppression of legitimate political speech.
well thats why we have courts isnt it
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2438 on: June 02, 2020, 01:39:11 PM »
The only way I could enlighten you would be to appear on FoxNews.  That's the only way you wouldn't immediately dismiss anything I offered.
Part of your your challenge of “ enlightening “ all of us is the arrogant assumption that you are enlightened and nobody who disagrees with you is.

this is not about Fox News.  I fiercely visit all the main sights to get different perspectives as do many other people here.


when I am watching that asshole kill Greg Lloyd, does it matter who filmed it?  When I am watching three men beat a old women mercilessly fists and 2 x 4s , does it matter who filmed it?
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2439 on: June 02, 2020, 01:40:30 PM »
Anyone calling for violence will not achieve a worthwhile objective? Noted.
Do you disagree?
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2440 on: June 02, 2020, 01:43:48 PM »
So trust in 50 different mayors of 50 different cities with 50 different makeups would be better than, you know, a national leader doing the right thing?
No.

But failure at the national level doesn't relieve governors and mayors--of whatever state dominated by whichever party--of their responsibilities.  In some areas, governors have more powers than the POTUS does.

Just an observation: It would help you get your points across if you would just make your arguments instead of asking rhetorical questions and putting words in other people's mouths.

Eschew motte-and-Bailey argumentation.
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2441 on: June 02, 2020, 01:44:12 PM »
well thats why we have courts isnt it
I mean, it was said by a supreme court justice? Who I think might've walked it back to a degree.

Anyway, its meaning is kinda murky and has a bad history. 

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2442 on: June 02, 2020, 01:46:05 PM »
Most departments have instituted review boards, they all have IA, they all have a complaints system, and they all WILL continue to have a few bad apples who either make egregious mistakes OR intentionally leverage their authority excessively.

To think "we" haven't tried all sorts of things over the decades is not what I've seen, as if something new is going to make a difference.  I don't buy it.  Call it some new name, claim you are instituting new policies and procedures, and get on with it.

Nothing changed last time, or the time before that, or the time before that, under Obama, under Bush, under Clinton ....

It's not going to change this time either, other than some new lingo and fig leaves.  It won't change the next time either.

But, it feels good to blame Trump, or Democrats, or Liberals, or Right Wingers, or whatever you want, as if this problem has some simple solution and simple cause.


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2443 on: June 02, 2020, 01:46:11 PM »
How should a Democratic leader get 100 million people to become emapthetic?

Why are you utterly incapable of role-reversing this.  If time after time, unarmed white men were murdered by those tasked to serve an protect and nothing came of it??  

I admit it IS hard to fathom BECAUSE IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN A 2ND TIME.  It would get dealt with and fixed.  This just happens every so often.  Then there's protests and riots.  Then to goes back to how it was.  Then it happens again.

Break the cycle.  Is militarizing the police forces of our cities making it better?  No?  Then stop doing that.  


When you or I see a police officer, it's mostly inane, but it's a plus.  Someone to defend the law, someone who would help us out, someone in public service.  We might be moved to just shake their hand or pay for their meal.  Usually not, but the thought occurs to us.  Maybe thank him for his service or something.  But we also support the officer in our fantasyland ideas, don't we?  Like if something crazy happened and there was a dangerous situation, we'd have that cop's back.  We'd be his support and he could rely on us to help.

Let's flip that around, based on life experience, if we were a minority.
You now see that cop, and he's already scoping you out.  Even though you'd have his back if something dangerous went down, you don't see someone serving and protecting you.  You're on is radar from the moment he saw you.  You look at his gun.  You look to see if he has a partner nearby.  You have to purposely look non-threatening.  Yes, you have to act a certain way, because your true self just might look guilty.  You have to be careful, though, because if you overcompensate, you'll seem odd and he'll approach you.  He'll start asking questions and even though you're just a normal, boring person, he'll find you really interesting.  You'll be really stressed and freaking out inside, but try to keep calm.  But what he's doing is wrong.  Yes, you may be able to just get through this interaction, no big deal, but what the officer is doing is wrong, but if you voice this, the worse than will happen isn't an arrest, it's your life.  


I type all this in vain, because a few of you will read it and scoff.  You'll dismiss it as malarkey and THAT is the problem.  It's reality for millions of people.  THAT is the thing that no mayor or governor or president can change.  Some of your inability or unwillingness to read the above and not immediately dismiss it.  


“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2444 on: June 02, 2020, 01:47:09 PM »
The police unions. The city politicians and districts attorney that rely on the political support of the police unions to keep their jobs.
Yep.  I read a good essay on this today, but it would probably fan political flames to post it.
It would also help if the SCOTUS would rule on limited liability for police actions.  That may happen this term.
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2445 on: June 02, 2020, 01:49:51 PM »
Do you disagree?
I'm sure I could concoct some situation where I might, but in the vast majority of situations, I agree. 

But I've seen folks, maybe of a different strand from say a "liberal media" or "Hollywood Elites," advocating for some violence.

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2446 on: June 02, 2020, 01:53:07 PM »
How should a Democratic leader get 100 million people to become emapthetic?

Why are you utterly incapable of role-reversing this.  If time after time, unarmed white men were murdered by those tasked to serve an protect and nothing came of it?? 

I admit it IS hard to fathom BECAUSE IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN A 2ND TIME.  It would get dealt with and fixed.  This just happens every so often.  Then there's protests and riots.  Then to goes back to how it was.  Then it happens again.

Break the cycle.  Is militarizing the police forces of our cities making it better?  No?  Then stop doing that. 


When you or I see a police officer, it's mostly inane, but it's a plus.  Someone to defend the law, someone who would help us out, someone in public service.  We might be moved to just shake their hand or pay for their meal.  Usually not, but the thought occurs to us.  Maybe thank him for his service or something.  But we also support the officer in our fantasyland ideas, don't we?  Like if something crazy happened and there was a dangerous situation, we'd have that cop's back.  We'd be his support and he could rely on us to help.

Let's flip that around, based on life experience, if we were a minority.
You now see that cop, and he's already scoping you out.  Even though you'd have his back if something dangerous went down, you don't see someone serving and protecting you.  You're on is radar from the moment he saw you.  You look at his gun.  You look to see if he has a partner nearby.  You have to purposely look non-threatening.  Yes, you have to act a certain way, because your true self just might look guilty.  You have to be careful, though, because if you overcompensate, you'll seem odd and he'll approach you.  He'll start asking questions and even though you're just a normal, boring person, he'll find you really interesting.  You'll be really stressed and freaking out inside, but try to keep calm.  But what he's doing is wrong.  Yes, you may be able to just get through this interaction, no big deal, but what the officer is doing is wrong, but if you voice this, the worse than will happen isn't an arrest, it's your life. 


I type all this in vain, because a few of you will read it and scoff.  You'll dismiss it as malarkey and THAT is the problem.  It's reality for millions of people.  THAT is the thing that no mayor or governor or president can change.  Some of your inability or unwillingness to read the above and not immediately dismiss it. 



still no ideas or suggestions just vague broad strokes of whats wrong
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2447 on: June 02, 2020, 01:55:04 PM »
The violence is a natural response to outrage with no way to fix the problem.
You see it in kids who have bad things happening at home.  They act out, often violently, at school.  They don't have any power at home to fix the problems, so their outrage comes out around peers, in a place where no one will drunkenly hit them or throw their stuff away.
The quick leap to "we need the rioting to stop, let's focus on the rioters" is a simple ploy to control the narrative.  It moves everyone past the incident and gets them working on the clean-up.  


Another brown person will be murdered by police in a few months.  Then another and another.  And then after 'enough' have been murdered, there will be another outrage-protest-rioting.


And so on and so forth.  Because reasons.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2448 on: June 02, 2020, 01:56:13 PM »
still no ideas or suggestions just vague broad strokes of whats wrong
I don't know how to fix a lack of empathy for 100 million people.  I'm sorry.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2449 on: June 02, 2020, 01:57:19 PM »
OK OAM you are now the President of the United States

Tell us what actual legislation you would propose or executive orders you would make or any other

action you would take to improve race relations in the USA
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

 

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