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Topic: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #154 on: August 14, 2020, 03:43:38 PM »
Just keep clicking.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #155 on: August 14, 2020, 03:46:31 PM »
;)

[click.]

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #156 on: August 14, 2020, 03:54:23 PM »
Honestly, folks, some decisions need to be made at the organizational (in some cases that means governmental) level. That doesn't mean we don't believe in personal responsibility, that means we know that individual decisions impact others, too, and impact others' autonomy.

There are lots of examples of this that no one seems to disagree with. Focusing on football, who makes the rules for the competition? The league, not the individual participants. The individuals participate one way or another, but don't make personal decisions. The individuals choose whether to comply with them, but in so doing, among the sanctions, they risk being kicked out.

The societal version of that is prison. We make lots of rules about what "the people" can do that no one questions as "personal responsibility" issues. To HB's comment, the government always has and always will make decisions about what other people can do--as do the directors of athletic leagues.

There is always debate about just how much the government should regulate activities--that is, and always will be, a fundamental debate in a democracy (including a democratic republic). And in the present day both major political parties (and even the libertarians) advocate for policies that they favor that infringe on "personal rights" the other side (or sides) feel are sacred.

That's what's wrong with the, "what ever happened to personal responsibility" question. It basically applies to every organizational decision someone doesn't agree with. It's basically meaningless.

Utee, I agree with most of what I see you say around here, and I know you can take a little criticism, so here it is: that's a silly response in this situation.

Sure, at some point there are questions that probably most of us would agree are personal decisions (taking an extreme, which toothpaste we choose to use...or even if we choose to brush our teeth), but questions like how to participate in a sports league during a global pandemic hardly fall into the "what about personal responsibility" category. Disagreeing with the voters (in this case the B1G board) doesn't mean they don't believe in personal responsibility, it means they weighted the risks and benefits differently than you did. To pretend there is no real risk here flies in the face of what we know--and as importantly at this moment in time--what we don't know, which is a lot.


Respectfully, strongly disagree.  I won’t make the case though, just move on.  It would be too easy. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #157 on: August 14, 2020, 04:11:00 PM »
Respectfully, strongly disagree.  I won’t make the case though, just move on.  It would be too easy. 
Yes, but let's look at football... "Personal responsibility" doesn't just mean the players.

As university Presidents, every one of those Presidents is a steward of their entire university and their reputation. They had to make an individual/personal risk/reward decision about the value of sanctioning official football activities in a pandemic where their university could take an enormous reputational hit if they irresponsibly put people in danger. Their vote to cancel the fall football season occurred because more than less [12-2, if the reports are accurate] believed that the risk to the institutions were greater than the reward.

That's why I made the [relatively flippant] argument that if the players want to play football, go find an open intramural field, choose up teams, and play. The players have personal responsibility for their own actions. 

But the university Presidents have a responsibility to not sanction activities which will bring shame and opprobrium upon the institution (or conference) as a whole. 

So "let them play" is only one half of the decision. Every one of those players represents the name of the university on their uniform, and there are other stakeholders in the decision of whether or not to have a fall football season. Those other stakeholders have a responsibility not just to the athletes, but to the institution. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #158 on: August 14, 2020, 04:24:28 PM »
Yep.  Just like in the other conferences.  

Don’t buy the 12-2 vote either.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #159 on: August 14, 2020, 04:28:55 PM »
Speaking of personal responsibility, I made the masks in the SF__96 house. These are three of mine; can't find the other Badger one right now.


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #160 on: August 14, 2020, 04:47:16 PM »
Yep.  Just like in the other conferences. 

Don’t buy the 12-2 vote either. 
I still believe the other conferences are playing kick-the-can hoping that nothing horrific happens during practices, or in NFL training camps, etc... I'm not sure any of them will actually play this fall. 

Every one of these conferences is already treading on the "are these students or are they employees generating revenue" knife-edge, and if they're putting their athletes through much riskier activities when they won't even all allow students to be in classrooms is a PR risk. Add in the risk of multiple players ending up in the hospital or on a ventilator, a player dying, or multiple players developing long-term health issues that potentially ruin their future opportunities to play competitive sports, and they have a HUGE liability bubble hanging over their heads.

If this thing goes south, the players who wanted to play won't be blamed--it'll be the universities that put them on the field [and were making $$$ off them the whole time]. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #161 on: August 14, 2020, 04:57:12 PM »
I still believe the other conferences are playing kick-the-can hoping that nothing horrific happens during practices, or in NFL training camps, etc... I'm not sure any of them will actually play this fall.

Every one of these conferences is already treading on the "are these students or are they employees generating revenue" knife-edge, and if they're putting their athletes through much riskier activities when they won't even all allow students to be in classrooms is a PR risk. Add in the risk of multiple players ending up in the hospital or on a ventilator, a player dying, or multiple players developing long-term health issues that potentially ruin their future opportunities to play competitive sports, and they have a HUGE liability bubble hanging over their heads.

If this thing goes south, the players who wanted to play won't be blamed--it'll be the universities that put them on the field [and were making $$$ off them the whole time].
Agreed.    We can agree to disagree with the Big Tens handling. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #162 on: August 14, 2020, 05:03:19 PM »
Yep.  Just like in the other conferences. 

Don’t buy the 12-2 vote either. 
better than when the Big 12 was formed

all those votes were 11-1
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #163 on: August 14, 2020, 05:09:17 PM »
Agreed.    We can agree to disagree with the Big Tens handling. 
Agree. Some make the argument that they pulled the plug too early, and I can at least entertain that as reasonable. 

One thing I think is BS is that if they're still holding 20 hours of practice a week without a season, that's just ridiculous.

While it's lower risk than game situations (you can sequester smaller groups for position-level drills, you don't have to all do film study together, etc), it's a completely unnecessary risk to be spending the same amount of time you'd spend during fall camp and the season when your season is [at best] 6 months away. 

If the Big Ten was going to shut it down, they should have instructed the athletic directors to suspend all practices until conference-wide offseason protocols could be put into place regarding how much time could be devoted to organized team activities and what restrictions should be in place to stay safe. 

If you're not safe enough to play, you're not safe enough for normal practice, at the very least. 

FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #164 on: August 14, 2020, 05:17:41 PM »
so, you don't have practice

just lock them in dorm rooms???
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #165 on: August 14, 2020, 05:24:11 PM »
so, you don't have practice

just lock them in dorm rooms???
They're athletes. It makes sense that they still have certain activities. Physical training and weight room, for example. Probably some position drills, playbook study with coaches, etc. I'm not saying you lock them in their dorm rooms, but you also don't have a season to prepare for so the practice demands shouldn't be the same.

"20 hours per week" is generally reserved for fall camp and during the season. A huge portion of that is game prep, film study, and things that are only necessary because they're either preparing for the upcoming season or they're in the midst of the season.

They don't practice 20 hours a week in Jan/Feb. Or in May/June. If they're 6 months out from a season, there's no point in having 20 hours of organized practice per week.

FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #166 on: August 14, 2020, 05:29:14 PM »
not sure about Purdue, but the Huskers need at least 20 hours per week

as you know, many places would be practicing 50 hours a week, year around if the NCAA didn't have limits

it won't hurt those kids, might be good for them
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Fall No-Season Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #167 on: August 14, 2020, 05:35:10 PM »
so, you don't have practice

just lock them in dorm rooms???
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