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Topic: 2019 NFL Draft
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CWSooner · « **Reply #252 on:** April 02, 2019, 07:21:59 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2019, 10:23:27 PM

you, sir, are ranking Emmett by how his stats look and not by how he performed on the field

not just my opinion, Gil Brandt shares my opinion

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000815786/gil-brandt's-25-greatest-nfl-running-backs-of-all-time

Gil, who has seen a thing or two, likes the old man who has been left out of this discussion.

Brown.
Jim Brown.

Kris60 · « **Reply #253 on:** April 02, 2019, 07:24:35 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2019, 06:06:15 PM

I'm honestly not an Emmitt Smith fanboy, and I view Sanders' '88 season at OKST as hollowed, but Emmitt gets the short end of the stick. Why don't people do the same to Jerry Rice? He had 2 HOF QBs throwing him the ball. He had the most yards/catches of all time. He was "too slow", etc.

Here’s my two cents on that. First of all, I think you have a point that Smith’s numbers are probably a little more unappreciated than they should be because of all the talent around him. I think you might be exaggerating it a little but I think the perception is there.
Here’s why I don’t think Rice gets the same scrutiny. His numbers are so astronomically better than everyone else’s it sort of eliminates doubt. He’s more than 6600 yards clear of Larry Fitzgerald. He’s 41 TD receptions better than Randy Moss. He’s more than 200 receptions better than Tony Gonzalez.
Also, I think there is a feeling even though that Montana and Young were great that Rice still had to be good enough to get open. How many times have you seen a line blow a hole wide open and an announcer joke, “I think even you and I could have ran through that one.”
I’ve never seen a WR beat a DB on a post route and heard anyone say, “I think even I could have beaten him on that route.” A RB can have big run and on the replay they will point out great blocks and what contributed to the RB having that run. When a WR has a big catch it’s usually a replay of the WR beating his man and confirmation of how good the WR is. I think over time a fan may be conditioned to think that a RB’s success is more dependent on other people than a WR’s success. I’m not saying that is fair, but I think it may happen.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #254 on:** April 02, 2019, 08:36:13 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 02, 2019, 06:25:48 PM

Swan,Stallworth and Bennie Cunningham struck at anytime and Bradshaw got it to them.I know I've watched them do it to beat the Browns.Hell Cliff Branch a raiders receiver set the NCAA record for the 100 meters.He had Daryle Lamonica and later Ken Stabler getting him the long ball.But with each passing generation the players get a little bigger and faster.So not really accurate to compare them.Too bad society can't get any smarter

Did they even have route trees back then? It was run the ball 8 times then chuck it deep. Repeat.
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I honestly believe anyone who grew up playing football video games would be a world-beater OC in the 70s. Let's get to work on those time machines.

CWSooner · « **Reply #255 on:** April 02, 2019, 10:20:36 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2019, 08:36:13 PM

Did they even have route trees back then? It was run the ball 8 times then chuck it deep. Repeat.
-
I honestly believe anyone who grew up playing football video games would be a world-beater OC in the 70s. Let's get to work on those time machines.

Defenses adapt to what the offenses are doing. If offenses were running the schemes we see today, those DCs probably would have adjusted to them. They weren't idiots.
If a video-game world, yeah, the old defenses would fail against today's offenses. But real football is played on a real field by real people who can adapt to circumstances.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #256 on:** April 03, 2019, 07:56:51 AM »

Quote from: Kris60 on April 02, 2019, 07:24:35 PM

Here’s my two cents on that. .........

Good post.Emmitt Smith had great balance also which is hard to graph.Sanders on the other hand did more damage in the open field not between the tackles.Jimmy Brown,pffft - end of conversation

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #257 on:** April 03, 2019, 12:10:20 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on April 02, 2019, 10:20:36 PM

Defenses adapt to what the offenses are doing. If offenses were running the schemes we see today, those DCs probably would have adjusted to them. They weren't idiots.
If a video-game world, yeah, the old defenses would fail against today's offenses. But real football is played on a real field by real people who can adapt to circumstances.

Yeah, but if you're the only one with the space-aged passing game, it'd be a massive advantage.

FearlessF · « **Reply #258 on:** April 03, 2019, 12:27:44 PM »

Don Coryell's Pass-Happy Schemes Made NFL Defenses Cringe

https://www.profootballhof.com/news/air-coryell/

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #259 on:** April 03, 2019, 12:59:25 PM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 03, 2019, 12:10:20 PM

Yeah, but if you're the only one with the space-aged passing game, it'd be a massive advantage.

Yep.
When Tiller started going five wide in the B1G and opposing teams were trying to cover guys like Vinny Sutherland with a linebacker or a safety, and brought in the bubble screen, he had an advantage over almost every defense in the league.
When we were in the infancy of the spread option with Urban Meyer (I'm talking pre-Florida, like the Utah stuff), nobody was running it and nobody could defend it. The running ability of the QB reversed the numbers game in the spread offense and with a passing option still available defenses had to respect everyone on the field.
When teams like WVU were pioneering spread-to-run styles with veer and read option and nobody else was doing it, they were killing teams. Instead of reading some ultra-athletic DE (who could recover), teams started reading interior linemen and blocking the DE, and got the advantage.
When teams like Oregon combined a lot of those concepts with their HUNH and didn't give DC's time to substitute or adjust, they put teams on their heels and crushed it.
When we saw all of that integrated into RPOs reads of the linebackers or safeties to ensure numbers, they got a leg up on the defense and had an advantage.
But as with anything, each of those advantages was time-limited.
So yeah, I think if someone entered the 1970's NFL with a modern offense, they'd start crushing teams left and right--for a while. Eventually two things would happen:

The NFL, being a copycat league, would start doing the same things. You can't stop film study...
The defenses would learn their keys, adjust their strategies and personnel, and work to neutralize it.

It would take a few years. But they'd catch up, because they'd have to.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #260 on:** April 03, 2019, 01:38:08 PM »

But the uniqueness of it would be forcing them to deal with all of the advances between then and now all at once. I don't think any group of coaches could do that, even if they were explicitly working together.

You'd basically be Bill Walsh before Bill Walsh, but with utilizing the RB in the passing game AND utilizing the slot WR AND back-shoulder throws AND AND AND...

MrNubbz · « **Reply #261 on:** April 03, 2019, 02:58:51 PM »

Tressel Ball stopped Chip Kelly's high Octane HUNH offense in the Rose Bowl in 2010.Played smash mouth,power football playing keep away the one time I can honestly say the Vest fooled everyone.He pretty much ran the ball between the tackles all season.We thought tOSU would get killed.Turns out he was sand bagging got creative opened it up along with a strong running game.Pretty well stifled an explosive offense.Took them out of their rhythm and forced them to play from the heels Buckeyes had twice as many 1st downs,T.o.P.,and 150 more total yds

Mdot21 · « **Reply #262 on:** April 03, 2019, 03:05:28 PM »

Emmitt absolutely gets slept on and disrespected. Anybody who says he's not a top 10 RB All-Time is just crazy. He absolutely is.

As for the Barry vs. Jim Brown debate, that one is close. I look at it like this- Brown would not be the same player he was in the era Barry played or in todays game. You put Barry in any era and he's making everyone look like a fool. You put Barry in the late 50's and 60's- oh my god. He'd dominate that era even more than he did in the 1990s. You put Barry in todays game and he's still dominating. He's timeless. You put Jim Brown in the 90s or todays game- he's just not the same guy. Brown was playing in an era when he was 6'2, 225 and he was pretty much bigger and stronger than virtually all of the defensive linemen and linebackers that were tasked with trying to tackle him. He'd be a big back in the 90s or todays game- but certainly pale in comparison to the size of the DL's and LB's tackling him. This is a great point that the HOF RB Curtis Martin made about why he thinks Barry is the GOAT over Brown, and it's a point that I agree with him on.

Barry to me is the best football player I've ever seen. He could do more on his own to dominate his opponent than any player I have ever seen. It really didn't matter how the play was designed or blocked, who he was playing against, who he was playing with- the guy just did so much on his own- his ability to create on his own and beat the guy in front of him is something I haven't seen from anyone in any sport. Listen to the guys who played against him. Lots of defenders from his era flat out say he's the only player they ever feared and the best running back they ever played against.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #263 on:** April 03, 2019, 03:15:08 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on April 03, 2019, 02:58:51 PM

Tressel Ball stopped Chip Kelly's high Octane HUNH offense in the Rose Bowl in 2010.Played smash mouth,power football playing keep away the one time I can honestly say the Vest fooled everyone.He pretty much ran the ball between the tackles all season.We thought tOSU would get killed.Turns out he was sand bagging got creative opened it up along with a strong running game.Pretty well stifled an explosive offense.Took them out of their rhythm and forced them to play from the heels Buckeyes had twice as many 1st downs,T.o.P.,and 150 more total yds

Of all OSU games to get weirdly mythologized, this remains the weirdest.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #264 on:** April 03, 2019, 03:23:39 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on April 03, 2019, 03:05:28 PM

As for the Barry vs. Jim Brown debate, that one is close. I look at it like this- Brown would not be the same player he was in the era Barry played or in todays game. You put Barry in any era and he's making everyone look like a fool. You put Barry in the late 50's and 60's- oh my god. He'd dominate that era even more than he did in the 1990s. You put Barry in todays game and he's still dominating. He's timeless. You put Jim Brown in the 90s or todays game- he's just not the same guy. Brown was playing in an era when he was 6'2, 225 and he was pretty much bigger and stronger than virtually all of the defensive linemen and linebackers that were tasked with trying to tackle him. He'd be a big back in the 90s or todays game- but certainly pale in comparison to the size of the DL's and LB's tackling him. This is a great point that the HOF RB Curtis Martin made about why he thinks Barry is the GOAT over Brown, and it's a point that I agree with him on.

I look at it like this if you put barry back in the 50's he wouldn't have had all of the physical conditioning/nutritional programs available to make such an impact.A Bobby Mitchell or a Lenny more,Sure he'd be fast but Brown would be to and able to run over guys also

.Have to compare guys in that time frame.Brown still retired averaging over 5 ypc and 100 yds per game.I remember NFL Films did a series on all-time greats at every position.They showed Brown dragging 4-5 Eagles into the endzone with him.If there wasn't any room Jimmy made some.Artie Donovan was 300 lbs,Gino marchetti what 285,forget what sam Huff and his ilk weighed in at.That's just the point Brown was freak in his time more so than Barry was in his.Brown also started his career playing 12 game seasons for 4 years,then 14 games.Brown was also an All-American Lacrosse player

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #265 on:** April 03, 2019, 07:59:26 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on April 03, 2019, 03:15:08 PM

Of all OSU games to get weirdly mythologized, this remains the weirdest.

I think humanity could live on for tens of millions of years, and people will still think providing one contrary example rebukes a larger point.

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Topic: 2019 NFL Draft

CWSooner

Re: 2019 NFL Draft

Kris60

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OrangeAfroMan

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CWSooner

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MrNubbz

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OrangeAfroMan

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FearlessF

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betarhoalphadelta

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OrangeAfroMan

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MrNubbz

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Mdot21

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bayareabadger

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MrNubbz

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OrangeAfroMan

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