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Topic: 2019 NFL Draft

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CWSooner

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #210 on: April 01, 2019, 12:19:26 AM »
yup,




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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #211 on: April 01, 2019, 01:28:35 AM »
if Barry ran behind that line in that offense his numbers would have been outrageous  only if he ran differently
Emmett was a very good back that had a great line and offense  and with that, you'd expect him to have all-time great numbers, which he did
Barry was one of the all-time greats - no comparision   they were both all-time greats, which is why we can compare them, lol
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #212 on: April 01, 2019, 01:46:13 AM »
Barry's career was 10 years.  He was the 3rd pick in the '89 draft.
Let's compare that to Emmitt's first 10 years.  Smith was the 17th pick in the '90 draft, behind Blair Thomas of Penn State.

Barry (10 yrs)
151 games started
3062 carries
15,269 yards
99 TD
5.0 ypc
100 yards per game avg
20 carries per game avg
352 receptions
2912 yards receiving
8.3 ypc
10 rec TD
-
Emmitt (first 10 yrs)
153 games started
3243 carries
13963 yards
136 TD
4.3 ypc
90 yards per game avg
21 carries per game avg
442 receptions
2728 yards receiving
6.2 ypc
11 rec TD
-
-
Thankfully, 10 is a nice, round number.  
Barry was a guy who'd get 306 carries for 1,5227 yards and 10 TD for you every year.
Emmitt would have 324 carries for 1,396 yards and 13-14 TD.  
They'd both provide around 40 catches for 280 yards and a TD as well.



Let's not pretend these guys aren't comparable.  I'm a whore for yards per carry, but the TD thing matters.  Either DET didn't think Barry would score in short-yardage due to his running style OR they didn't want to expose him to goal line punishment...either way, it's a knock on him.  
*And remember, this ignores the additional 4,392 yards and 28 TDs Emmitt had the rest of his career, on top of this comparison.  Barry was still super-productive when he quit, but he did quit.  This "he couldda, wouldda, shouldda" doesn't matter.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MrNubbz

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #213 on: April 01, 2019, 02:55:55 AM »
Correct,can't cherry pick.Tomlinson,Faulk and Martin were other greats in that time frame.Having watched Earl Campbell play  - he's the most fearsome combination of speed and power I've ever seen.Arguments could be made for Bo Jackson or Herschel Walker but neither was the package that punished defenders the way Earl lowered the boom
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Mdot21

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #214 on: April 01, 2019, 11:59:56 AM »
Barry's career was 10 years.  He was the 3rd pick in the '89 draft.
Let's compare that to Emmitt's first 10 years.  Smith was the 17th pick in the '90 draft, behind Blair Thomas of Penn State.

Barry (10 yrs)
151 games started
3062 carries
15,269 yards
99 TD
5.0 ypc
100 yards per game avg
20 carries per game avg
352 receptions
2912 yards receiving
8.3 ypc
10 rec TD
-
Emmitt (first 10 yrs)
153 games started
3243 carries
13963 yards
136 TD
4.3 ypc
90 yards per game avg
21 carries per game avg
442 receptions
2728 yards receiving
6.2 ypc
11 rec TD
-
-
Thankfully, 10 is a nice, round number.  
Barry was a guy who'd get 306 carries for 1,5227 yards and 10 TD for you every year.
Emmitt would have 324 carries for 1,396 yards and 13-14 TD.  
They'd both provide around 40 catches for 280 yards and a TD as well.



Let's not pretend these guys aren't comparable.  I'm a whore for yards per carry, but the TD thing matters.  Either DET didn't think Barry would score in short-yardage due to his running style OR they didn't want to expose him to goal line punishment...either way, it's a knock on him.  
*And remember, this ignores the additional 4,392 yards and 28 TDs Emmitt had the rest of his career, on top of this comparison.  Barry was still super-productive when he quit, but he did quit.  This "he couldda, wouldda, shouldda" doesn't matter.
Great post. Emmitt gets disrespected way too much. Yes his OL was great and he played with a HOF QB and WR, but he made all those guys better too. He did a lot of stuff on his own. Just watch the highlights.
Barry did a lot of short yardage diving over the goal line stuff in college at Oklahoma State. A lot. He did score like 40 touchdowns that junior year, and they weren't all 60 yard TD runs. For some reason whenever the Lions got into the goal line situations, Wayne Fontes' brilliant genius coaching idea was to pull him out of the game. I'm 100% sure if Fontes would've just lined Barry up in the I-form near the goal-line with a FB in front of him, he'd have plenty more touchdowns.
What makes what Barry Sanders did for 10 straight years so impressive is he didn't have a whole lot of help. Their OL at best was pretty good some years- not great just pretty good- and other years it was flat out terrible. He never had a dominant OL like the Dallas/Denver lines of the 90s. The guy played 80% of his career with Wayne Fontes as his head coach. Yuck. The guy played with 10 different starting QB's, and most of them were flat out scrubs. Andre Ware, Rodney Peete, an 89 year old Dave Krieg with a bum shoulder, Charlie Batch, Scott Mitchell, Erik Kramer, Bob Gagliano, Eric Hipple, Don Majowski, and Frank Reich. Seriously? No Troy Aikman's there. Scott Mitchell was probably the best he had, and Mitchell was a turd that had a couple good years and was hated by most of his teammates and often played his smallest in the biggest moments. Herman Moore and Brett Perriman were a really good WR duo, so Barry definitely did have some help there.
Barry probably had a lot more juice left physically. He never took the big hits, most defenders were content just getting a hand on to him to bring him to the ground. Most were afraid to try and give him the big lick for fear of Barry making them look stupid and having them tackle nothing but air. His 9th year in the NFL after Bobby Ross came in and took over the Lions and gave Barry a FB, Barry only ran for 2,053 yards- and the next year- his 10th year- he ran for 1,491 yards- less than a first down shy of 1,500. In year 10. Which by the way is the most yards a RB has ever had following a 2,000 yard season. The others following a 2,000 yard season: Jamal Lewis (1,006 yards), Chris Johnson (1,364 yards) , Adrian Peterson (1,266 yards), Terrell Davis (211 yards), OJ Simpson (1,115 yards), and Erick Dickerson (1,234 yards).
Emmitt was showing some signs of erosion in year 9 and 10. Emmitt had 4 seasons in Dallas where he'd averaged 3.7 to 3.9 yards per carry. Barry was still at the top of his game year 9 and 10, and he never averaged less than 4.3 yards per carry a season- even with the 0 or negative gains- remove those and his YPC probably sky rockets to something ridiculous.

Entropy

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #215 on: April 01, 2019, 12:10:56 PM »
for my money and in my lifetime, I'd take Sanders and Walter Payton as the best ever.   That doesn't mean other backs are not great, but I really love their style and what they accomplished.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #216 on: April 01, 2019, 01:59:28 PM »
I get the Sanders love, he 100% deserves it.  He had the stats and the flash.  There's nothing you can take away from him, I'm just tired of Emmitt getting shit on.
He had a FB....he had a great QB/WR combo.....he had a great OL.....okay, great.  He had all that going for him.  And so all he did was go out and set the all-time rushing record.  What more should he have done??  
Remember his 2-game holdout?  DAL went 0-2 and had to pay him.  He comes back, wins the rushing title, and they're the first SB winner to start 0-2.
SB 28....losing at halftime vs BUF, they feed the ball to him to get back the lead and control of the game.

These are anecdotal and feel silly to bring up, but they're just examples of how that offense worked.  It was broken when Emmitt wasn't around or when they stopped running the ball.  

A record that may last longer than Emmitt's 18,355 yards is his 4,409 carries.  In the age of CTE (Seau was drafted the year before Emmitt, with Sanders), he carried the ball 4400 times.  What injuries do you remember?  The dislocated shoulder vs the Giants maybe?  42 touches for 229 yards in a game for home-field advantage.  



Sanders' stats are convincing of his greatness.  But so are Emmitt's.  And if you'd take Sanders over Smith, that makes sense, but I'd have to ask:  what should Smith have done differently?  Should he have juked around more?  Made more big plays?  Run differently?  The odds are so stacked against anyone breaking the all-time rushing record, that changing something would make it a greater uncertainty.  Whatever Smith did do, it led to 18,000+ yards.  The most rushing TDs ever.  He beat the TD record by 41 and still holds it today, too.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Kris60

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #217 on: April 01, 2019, 02:14:22 PM »
Great post. Emmitt gets disrespected way too much. Yes his OL was great and he played with a HOF QB and WR, but he made all those guys better too. He did a lot of stuff on his own. Just watch the highlights.
Barry did a lot of short yardage diving over the goal line stuff in college at Oklahoma State. A lot. He did score like 40 touchdowns that junior year, and they weren't all 60 yard TD runs. For some reason whenever the Lions got into the goal line situations, Wayne Fontes' brilliant genius coaching idea was to pull him out of the game. I'm 100% sure if Fontes would've just lined Barry up in the I-form near the goal-line with a FB in front of him, he'd have plenty more touchdowns.
What makes what Barry Sanders did for 10 straight years so impressive is he didn't have a whole lot of help. Their OL at best was pretty good some years- not great just pretty good- and other years it was flat out terrible. He never had a dominant OL like the Dallas/Denver lines of the 90s. The guy played 80% of his career with Wayne Fontes as his head coach. Yuck. The guy played with 10 different starting QB's, and most of them were flat out scrubs. Andre Ware, Rodney Peete, an 89 year old Dave Krieg with a bum shoulder, Charlie Batch, Scott Mitchell, Erik Kramer, Bob Gagliano, Eric Hipple, Don Majowski, and Frank Reich. Seriously? No Troy Aikman's there. Scott Mitchell was probably the best he had, and Mitchell was a turd that had a couple good years and was hated by most of his teammates and often played his smallest in the biggest moments. Herman Moore and Brett Perriman were a really good WR duo, so Barry definitely did have some help there.
Barry probably had a lot more juice left physically. He never took the big hits, most defenders were content just getting a hand on to him to bring him to the ground. Most were afraid to try and give him the big lick for fear of Barry making them look stupid and having them tackle nothing but air. His 9th year in the NFL after Bobby Ross came in and took over the Lions and gave Barry a FB, Barry only ran for 2,053 yards- and the next year- his 10th year- he ran for 1,491 yards- less than a first down shy of 1,500. In year 10. Which by the way is the most yards a RB has ever had following a 2,000 yard season. The others following a 2,000 yard season: Jamal Lewis (1,006 yards), Chris Johnson (1,364 yards) , Adrian Peterson (1,266 yards), Terrell Davis (211 yards), OJ Simpson (1,115 yards), and Erick Dickerson (1,234 yards).
Emmitt was showing some signs of erosion in year 9 and 10. Emmitt had 4 seasons in Dallas where he'd averaged 3.7 to 3.9 yards per carry. Barry was still at the top of his game year 9 and 10, and he never averaged less than 4.3 yards per carry a season- even with the 0 or negative gains- remove those and his YPC probably sky rockets to something ridiculous.
Sanders’ and Smith’s year 10 ypc was almost identical. 4.3 for Sanders and 4.2  for Smith but I do think Smith’s workload was starting to catch up with him by then.  By his tenth year Smith had 4,080 regular season and playoff touches compared 3,526 for Sanders.  That’s more than a full season’s worth of extra wear and tear despite the same tenure in the league. 

FearlessF

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #218 on: April 01, 2019, 02:16:49 PM »
Sooner fans can find at least three clips on that return, but who's counting? :'(
"Holy Moly, man, woman and child!"  An all-time classic call.
and as a Husker fan, I can find one instance of what a Sooner might call a clip, but that would be wrong.  No clip
hey, the game was in Norman
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 02:53:27 PM by FearlessF »
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FearlessF

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #219 on: April 01, 2019, 03:11:55 PM »

Barry (10 yrs)

5.0 ypc

-
Emmitt (first 10 yrs)


4.3 ypc-




Let's not pretend these guys aren't comparable.  I'm a whore for yards per carry, but the TD thing matters.  Either DET didn't think Barry would score in short-yardage due to his running style  
5 yards per carry with the entire defense focused on him from the time he gets off the bus.
5 yards per carry with an average at best O-line that didn't give him many holes
4.3 ypc with a passing game that could keep the defense honest
4.3 ypc with an O-line that usually spotted him 3 yards and many times gave him an alley to run through, especially on passing downs
running style?  If Emmett would have no where to run 50% of his carries he might have had to juke and jive and spin and try something other than run straight ahead
When Barry had a crease he headed upfield, he didn't dance until it was required, which was a lot.
and it's not just Emmett, don't get me started on TD Tony Dorsett.  Mostly just a speed back with great stats that made running to the sideline and not getting tackled fashionable in the NFL.
It's a Dallas Cowboy thing for this old crabby Viking fan
a couple others that have the highlight reels ................ OJ Simpson and Earl Campbell
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #220 on: April 01, 2019, 06:59:09 PM »
We didn't see Barry get old.  We didn't see that career arc going down as age continues its undefeated streak.  We didn't see his yards per carry dip down under 5, which it assuredly would have.
Part of Emmitt's greatness was his longevity.  You see these ultra-talented RBs, one after the other, get to 10,000 yards...and then fall off a cliff.  Tomlinson - cliff.  Peterson - cliff.  Then you have Emmitt.
After the age of 30 - Emmitt runs for 4,400 more yards and 28 more TDs.  Two 1,000 yard seasons and 2 more 900 yard seasons.  He just kept going.

What did Tomlinson do after 30?  1200 yards and 7 TD.  
Peterson?  1600 yds, 9 TD.  
Bettis?  2100 yds.  
Faulk?  1000 yds, 3 TD.
James?  125 yds, 0 TD
Martin?  2400 yds, 17 TD

None of them could keep that engine going enough to get carries.  Nagging injuries.  


So we're left with a guy (Sanders) who bypassed all that and a guy who was the last one standing (Smith), so to speak.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #221 on: April 01, 2019, 07:02:53 PM »
Looking up some stats, I just about shat my pants...Frank Gore is 4th on the all-time rushing list.  One season of 10+ TD.  1 season of 1300+ yards.  And there he is, about 500 yards behind Sanders.

What's he got to do to catch Emmitt?  Oh, just about 3600 yards.  No biggie.




If I could make a baseball analogy on Barry and Emmitt:  Barry is Sandy Koufax and Emmitt is Cy Young or Walter Johnson.  
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 07:25:29 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #222 on: April 01, 2019, 07:25:27 PM »
so, how did Emmett do with the Cardinals, w/o the O-line and the passing offense?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #223 on: April 01, 2019, 07:35:13 PM »
Crappy....he was 35 years old.  Still almost got 1,000 yards his last season, with a bad ypc average.  The coolest part about his final season is that he wound up with exactly as many yards as in his first season:  937.  


Emmitt is also the all-time leader in playoff rushing yards and TDs, with no one currently near him.  I'm not exactly sure what more he was supposed to do.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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