Michigan | ||||
[th]Date[/th] [th]Pos[/th] [th]Player[/th] [th]Injury[/th] [th]Status[/th] | ||||
10/14/18 | DL | Michael Dwumfour | Leg | is "?" Saturday vs Michigan State |
10/14/18 | DL | Rashan Gary | Arm | is "?" Saturday vs Michigan State |
09/25/18 | DB | Benjamin St-Juste | Undisclosed | is out for season |
09/17/18 | QB | Jacob West | ACL | is out for season |
09/11/18 | DL | Aubrey Solomon | Knee | is out indefinitely |
09/09/18 | P | Brad Robbins | Back | is out indefinitely |
09/03/18 | WR | Tarik Black | Foot | is out indefinitely |
Michigan State | ||||
[th]Date[/th] [th]Pos[/th] [th]Player[/th] [th]Injury[/th] [th]Status[/th] | ||||
10/14/18 | FB | Collin Lucas | Undisclosed | is "?" Saturday vs Michigan |
10/14/18 | G | Kevin Jarvis | Ankle | is "?" Saturday vs Michigan |
10/14/18 | RB | LJ Scott | Hamstring | is "?" Saturday vs Michigan |
10/14/18 | WR | Jalen Nailor | Undisclosed | is "?" Saturday vs Michigan |
10/10/18 | P | Jake Hartbarger | Leg | is out for season |
10/07/18 | WR | Cody White | Hand | is out indefinitely |
10/07/18 | G | David Beedle | Arm | is out indefinitely |
09/20/18 | DT | Mufi Hunt | Knee | is out indefinitely |
08/06/18 | CB | Josiah Scott | Leg | is out indefinitely |
08/04/18 | CB | Tyson Smith | Medical | is out for season |
Just found this injury database: (http://www.donbest.com/ncaaf/injuries/)Starting WR Darrell Stewart is also out. He might play this week, but I would assume questionable at best considering he didn't make the trip last week. Him, Nailor and Jarvis are the three who might return this week.[th]Date[/th]
Michigan
[th]Pos[/th]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Injury[/th]
[th]Status[/th]
10/14/18
DL
Michael Dwumfour
Leg
is "?" Saturday vs Michigan State
10/14/18
DL
Rashan Gary
Arm
is "?" Saturday vs Michigan State
09/25/18
DB
Benjamin St-Juste
Undisclosed
is out for season
09/17/18
QB
Jacob West
ACL
is out for season
09/11/18
DL
Aubrey Solomon
Knee
is out indefinitely
09/09/18
P
Brad Robbins
Back
is out indefinitely
09/03/18
WR
Tarik Black
Foot
is out indefinitely
Michigan State
[th]Date[/th]
[th]Pos[/th]
[th]Player[/th]
[th]Injury[/th]
[th]Status[/th]
10/14/18
FB
Collin Lucas
Undisclosed
is "?" Saturday vs Michigan
10/14/18
G
Kevin Jarvis
Ankle
is "?" Saturday vs Michigan
10/14/18
RB
LJ Scott
Hamstring
is "?" Saturday vs Michigan
10/14/18
WR
Jalen Nailor
Undisclosed
is "?" Saturday vs Michigan
10/10/18
P
Jake Hartbarger
Leg
is out for season
10/07/18
WR
Cody White
Hand
is out indefinitely
10/07/18
G
David Beedle
Arm
is out indefinitely
09/20/18
DT
Mufi Hunt
Knee
is out indefinitely
08/06/18
CB
Josiah Scott
Leg
is out indefinitely
08/04/18
CB
Tyson Smith
Medical
is out for season
But it's not perfect. For Michigan it misses on Aubrey Solomon (who played last night, looked fine) and - probably - on Tarik (who may not be back but is practicing and seems poised for this one).
How does MSU's injury reality compare?
For whatever reason Michigan doesn't get up for this game like MSU does. One team is playing like it is their Super Bowl, the other is just playing not to lose.Lol
LolLol?
Lol?Not a fan of shorthand?
ELA's account appears to have been hacked by a 12 year old girl.
sounds like Joel Klatt and Gus Johnson will be doing the game. Thank god. Last Michigan game on Fox was Tim Brando's drunk ass who kept mispronouncing all the players' names. That guy should probably just retire.Harbaughs biggest fan boy in the house
Harbaugh's only victory over State was in East Lansing.against a really crappy 3-9 team. Which he should've buried and was on the route to burying until the team let up the gas and let them kind of get back in it.
Harbaughs biggest fan boy in the houseyou just sound like a hater. he's way better than 99% of the other people who do his job imo. I'd much rather have him call a game than Tim Brando's old drunk ass calling Josh Metellus Josh Martless.
Not a fan of shorthand?I take it that you disagree with my assessment?
you just sound like a hater. he's way better than 99% of the other people who do his job imo. I'd much rather have him call a game than Tim Brando's old drunk ass calling Josh Metellus Josh Martless.We had this discussion last year when someone else made the claim during a UM broadcast that Joel Klatt sounded like a weird Harbaugh homer, and I went through and dug up all of the pro-Harbaugh articles that Joel Klatt had written for FOX in just the previous like 6 months.
I take it that you disagree with my assessment?The UM is MSU's "Super Bowl"?
We had this discussion last year when someone else made the claim during a UM broadcast that Joel Klatt sounded like a weird Harbaugh homer, and I went through and dug up all of the pro-Harbaugh articles that Joel Klatt had written for FOX in just the previous like 6 months.From the SoC last year during the UM-OSU game...
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but he is
Klatt has yet to not question every call that went against UM, or didn't get called. He is a big UM guy. Everyone knows that.
Lol? What? He's probably the only guy worth a shit in the CFB game since Speileman went to call the NFL.
And he's a Colorado guy fyi.
Klatt 2015 - Harbaugh is the best coach in college football
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2015/08/19/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh/31993261/
Klatt in July - Harbaugh is the best developer of talent in college football
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/klatt-harbaugh-best-developmental-coach-america/
Klatt in October - If you think Harbaugh as underachieved, you are "false and petty"
https://www.foxsports.com/the-herd-with-colin-cowherd/video/1070254147600
Klatt this week - UM giving Harbaugh a lifetime contract makes sense
https://www.foxsports.com/watch/the-herd-with-colin-cowherd/video/1101885507554
I'm not sure he's so much pro-UM, as he is jealous he didn't get a Quinn Nordin experience with ol Jimmy
Lol.. ELA is still a ninja with information.
Klatt is a tool
I would really like to see Make Hart as Michigan's running backs coach if only for this game.It's too bad he's coaching at another Big Ten school, because otherwise, if they made him honorary captain, I'd have to applaud that level of trolling.
The UM is MSU's "Super Bowl"?I don't follow.
Yeah
UM is MSU's Ohio State.
We had this discussion last year when someone else made the claim during a UM broadcast that Joel Klatt sounded like a weird Harbaugh homer, and I went through and dug up all of the pro-Harbaugh articles that Joel Klatt had written for FOX in just the previous like 6 months.Klatt is a Ralphie loving Colorado Buffalo
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but he is
I don't follow.Is Michigan Ohio State's Super Bowl?
Should be a fun game. MSU a little more equipped defensively, and Dantonio usually has a few tricks for Michigan. Hopefully MSU still has something in the tank after a big win, though.Not clear, but I think you are saying that MSU has a better overall defense than M. Or are you saying they are a step up from what Michigan has seen since ND?
sounds like Joel Klatt and Gus Johnson will be doing the game. Thank god. Last Michigan game on Fox was Tim Brando's drunk ass who kept mispronouncing all the players' names. That guy should probably just retire.My favorite duo in CFB.
against a really crappy 3-9 team. Which he should've buried and was on the route to burying until the team let up the gas and let them kind of get back in it.Meh, he did bury them. And then Dantonio played for defeat-with-dignity. Still a 2-score game and the eye test said it was less close than that. Definitely not a good team, though.
We had this discussion last year when someone else made the claim during a UM broadcast that Joel Klatt sounded like a weird Harbaugh homer, and I went through and dug up all of the pro-Harbaugh articles that Joel Klatt had written for FOX in just the previous like 6 months.Isn't he a homer for every helmet he writes on?
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but he is
PFF's list of the highest rated CB's from the P5 conferences who have limited receivers in coverage. Michigan's David Long #1 on that list. Again.Love this backfield. I'm surprised there are no LSU guys on there. Miami, either. I know they're great. Makes me think this is cherry-picking a bit (not against you, MDot, but PFF). They really do a good job baiting us sometimes.
Fewest yards allowed, per coverage snap.
1) David Long, Michigan - 0.15
2) Julius Brents, Iowa - 0.23
3) Maurice Smitherman, Miss State - 0.26
4) Innis Gaines, TCU - 0.30
5) Derrick Baity Jr, Kentucky - 0.38
6) Alontae Taylor, Tennesee - 0.41
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1051876105592827905/photo/1
Meh, he did bury them. And then Dantonio played for defeat-with-dignity. Still a 2-score game and the eye test said it was less close than that. Definitely not a good team, though.Huh?
Of course, you could argue that neither 2016 (MSU was better than 3-9) nor 2017 (MSU seemed worse than 9-3) worked out in proportion to the team.
Is Michigan Ohio State's Super Bowl?In your various half assed sentence fragments, are you trying to suggest that OSU is to Michigan as Michigan is to Michigan St?
But no, I agree with MDot, he didn't bury them at all. UM kicked the FG to go up 30-10 with 14:40 left. From that point on, UM had 3 drives, two of them were 3 and out. For the rest of the game, they had 13 plays for 41 yards and 1 first down. MSU from that point ran 30 plays for 256 yards. That is about as poor a job as closing out a game as one can have.We strongly disagree on the significance of those margins.
In your various half assed sentence fragments, are you trying to suggest that OSU is to Michigan as Michigan is to Michigan St?A half assed take deserves only a half assed response. But I'm not sure what you still aren't getting to be honest.
You are falsely equating style with results, the right thing to do was to salt the game away. But to do it while getting outgained by 210 yards in a quarter, while having 2 of your 3 drives go 3 and out, burning less than 2 minutes on 2 of the 3 drives, is a piss poor execution of a fine strategy.Yeah, the finishing execution fell out. But that mattered for style points only. My argument is that the game was never actually in doubt.
A half assed take deserves only a half assed response. But I'm not sure what you still aren't getting to be honest.Okay, so you were simply objecting to the "Super Bowl" cliché through a thick layer of condescending snark. Got it. Had you said so off the bad we could have easily avoided all this useless back and forth. Instead you said "UM is MSU's Ohio State."
UM is not MSU's Super Bowl. MSU doesn't play in or for the Super Bowl. They play for CCGs, Rose Bowls and CFPs, all of which they have played for recently. And maybe, hopefully a national title game at some point.
Saying that this game is anything more than just our biggest rival is a lazy take. Saying this is "MSU's Super Bowl" is as lazy a take as saying OSU is UM's Super Bowl. Except there it actually makes a little bit more sense because they haven't actually played for any of the things I mentioned in a long, long time.
Yes, it's MSU's biggest rival. No, it isn't UMs. That's it. If there is still some sort of motivation deficit after a decade of wishing they were having MSU's success, that's not on some sort rivalry disparity, that's on the players and coaches.
Now claiming that Michigan is to MSU as OSU is to Michigan is also horribly inaccurate.agreed.
I would really like to see Make Hart as Michigan's running backs coach if only for this game.I would really like him to be Michigan's RB coach period. I think he's got HC in his future and he's a hell of a recruiter already. Jim is messing up here. Mike Hart would take that job if offered in 2 seconds flat.
agreed.Huh? He said Michigan is to Michigan State what Ohio State is to Michigan.
Michigan State is an annoying little brother that as of late has stepped up to become a real pain in the ass. I don't really see them as Michigan's rival. Just being honest. They are more of a nuisance than anything. Really wish we didn't even play them. Nothing to gain by beating them and everything to lose by losing to them. I see ND as a bigger rival than MSU to be honest.
Ohio State is the rival. Period. That is the only game that truly matters in my mind.
Whether you like the "Super Bowl" cliché or not, it is quite commonplace in colloquial CFB vernacular. I used it with far more clarity than your rebuke of it, which was vague and confusing as all get out.I'm sorry the meaning "UM is MSU's Ohio State" in response to "UM is MSU's Super Bowl" wasn't clear to you. I clarified.
"Lol" and "UM is MSU's Ohio State" are the exact antithesis of expressing your distaste of that term with clarity.
MSU hates UM as much as UM hates tOSU. I thought that was easy to figure out.I'm not sure hate is the right word for M-OSU. I'm not being cute "about needing a bigger, darker word" or anything either. It's intense but generally respectful.
Players have much more respect for their opponents than most fans do.I'm not sure how much respect there is between M and MSU. Whenever I watch it looks like the dirtiest contest in CFB that year.
Players have much more respect for their opponents than most fans do.not sure the fans or players for Michigan-Sparty respect one another.
I'm torn between MSU by 3 or less or UM by 14+.So "NO WAY" in other words
The points are irrelevant to me, I don't see a UM win that fails to cover.
I'm not sure how much respect there is between M and MSU. Whenever I watch it looks like the dirtiest contest in CFB that year.
not sure the fans or players for Michigan-Sparty respect one another.That's why this game is watched for it's fire & intensity,like Bama-Auburn or Fla-Fl.St use to be and will be again.In state rivals have a hatred all their own.Of course Mike Hart bumping his gums and the arrival of MD have ratched things up
Ha, I saw that. One of the only negatives to having a world audience is that you attract ALL kinds of people. I'm not sure the story with him but my early guess is that he has M alumni as close friends/advisers.Don't say Unabomber...don't say Unabomber...don't say Unabomber
If Michigan scores a touchdown I'm shouting allahu akbar.If Michigan doesn't, I will
Don't say Unabomber...don't say Unabomber...don't say UnabomberHah. Don't let me ruin a good joke with a serious response, but I meant other Iranians or even Palestinians, Iraqis, Syrians, and Turks. I don't actually know the numbers, but in undergrad it was my best guess that very many well-to-do Middle Easterners (Persia and beyond), send their children to Ann Arbor to get a leg up on the world. And how could I be surprised if some end up in politics?
Darth Vader?
(https://i0.wp.com/insidethemagic.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Vader.png?resize=800%2C400&ssl=1)
Harbaughs biggest fan boy in the househttps://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1052643408441819136
Gary is out.(1) Have you reviewed his medical charts since the last time you said that?
Man did they mishandle that shoulder injury. Should’ve had him on ice to start the season.
Any good Sparty podcasts out there? I'd like to listen in on the enemy.As far as I know, no.
(1) Have you reviewed his medical charts since the last time you said that?He's been dealing with the same nagging shoulder injury since the 2nd half of last season. Instead of leaning on him to get surgery and rehab in the off-season - they didn't.
(2) It's not impossible that Gary does not return this year. And it could still have been entirely reasonable to play him full through UMd
UM attracting future honorary captains left and right
https://www.wxyz.com/news/fmr-iranian-president-mahmoud-ahmadinejad-tweets-support-for-michigan-football
He's just trying to get the madman to bring his kids to Iran for vacation this spring.I was thinking he was a heavy contributor to the UM money laundering...I mean endowment fund
Gary has nothing to gain by playing and everything to lose. Even if he doesn't play another down he's a 1st round pick in the 2019 draft.I dunno,potentially sure but do you think his body of work up to this point exceeds Hands(4th rd) or Hursts(5th rd)?IMO it hasn't which of course doesn't mean it won't on Sunday's.So I suppose it depends on draft depth at the position and team needs heading in
I dunno,potentially sure but do you think his body of work up to this point exceeds Hands(4th rd) or Hursts(5th rd)?IMO it hasn't which of course doesn't mean it won't on Sunday's.So I suppose it depends on draft depth at the position and team needs heading inOf course it exceeds Da'Shawn Hand's. Hand was a pretty bad college player who never started at Alabama.
He's been dealing with the same nagging shoulder injury since the 2nd half of last season. Instead of leaning on him to get surgery and rehab in the off-season - they didn't.I have some training in this area. Since his shoulder isn't permanently drooped and he could play at all, we have some sense of the "grade" of this AC injury. Injuries of those grades tend not to have a surgical option, tend not to progress, and "merely" present as painful. I haven't seen his charts, so of course it's somewhat irresponsible for me to say this. But no more irresponsible than promising that he was mismanaged.
I have some training in this area. Since his shoulder isn't permanently drooped and he could play at all, we have some sense of the "grade" of this AC injury. Injuries of those grades tend not to have a surgical option, tend not to progress, and "merely" present as painful. I haven't seen his charts, so of course it's somewhat irresponsible for me to say this. But no more irresponsible than promising that he was mismanaged.if he's really having that much of an issue and it doesn't require surgery they should've sent him to Panama to get stem cell treatments.
Of course it exceeds Da'Shawn Hand's. Hand was a pretty bad college player who never started at Alabama.Ya just looked that up hadn't paid any attention to bama as tOSU never met them.Isn't he playing decent for the Lions though?Gary & Hursts stats were almost identical last season - which was pretty good.Forgot about the heart condition
Hurst is killing the NFL and the only reason he fell to the 5th round was because of the heart condition.
Rashan Gary is a 1st round pick even if he doesn't play another down.
if he's really having that much of an issue and it doesn't require surgery they should've sent him to Panama to get stem cell treatments.What he needs is a year of rest. Given his position, market value and aspirations, he could never allow himself to never practice or play.
And of course now the rumors are going the other way, that he's practicing and this week or next, will play.if he was playing it’d have been announced.
Is Harbaugh messing with us or is this real? No one knows.
I will say versus Wisconsin, Paye was excellent in run defense. Various grades coming out this week put him as the most productive M DL versus the Badgers - even over Winovich. And his pass rush is a "+" also. Can't really afford to keep descending down the depth chart, though.Winovich is pretty bad at setting the edge. Both of Wisc long runs on those end arounds were pretty much his fault.
this might be the best M front 7 in ages with a healthy Gary.2016 was deeper Line with Charlton,Wormley,Mone,Hurst,Glasgow,Gary,Glasgow.
As for Michigan, since we finally have LBs, that could be true. Though the 2016 DL was filthier than this. Taco/Wormley/Gary/Winovich at end. And then it was Glasgow/Godin/Hurst and someone I'm forgetting.Mone
Winovich is pretty bad at setting the edge. Both of Wisc long runs on those end arounds were pretty much his fault.The jet sweep TD was primarily on the CB (Watson) who didn't crack replace when Kinnel came up to run through a crack block (Watson needed to back off but got confused).
I’d start Gary and Paye and use Winovich as a pass rush specialist.
well, now the insider chat is Gary will be back. Wtf. Who knows what to think. If he is back, that's a big plus for Michigan. Not sure there is a better DE at setting the edge against the run than Gary in the entire nation.Isn't that what you and I were talking about in this thread today ~3PM?
State was probably going to have trouble running the ball even if he wasn't starting. If he is actually starting? Man. They will have to really get creative and lucky to get any yards on the ground.
2016 was deeper Line with Charlton,Wormley,Mone,Hurst,Glasgow,Gary,Glasgow.Not sure it was as talented or explosive. Outside of Hurst. Gary and Mone both honestly rarely played in 2016 so I wouldn't exactly include them in there.
well, now the insider chat is Gary will be back. Wtf. Who knows what to think. If he is back, that's a big plus for Michigan. Not sure there is a better DE at setting the edge against the run than Gary in the entire nation.I think it's possible we are underestimating MSU's run game (seeing as they've never played a game this season with their full preseason OL starter list ... but right now, they'll have 4 of those 5 back. They'll take a step forward. And they always find some way to smack Michigan. This feels like a doublesmack.
State was probably going to have trouble running the ball even if he wasn't starting. If he is actually starting? Man. They will have to really get creative and lucky to get any yards on the ground.
I think it's possible we are underestimating MSU's run game (seeing as they've never played a game this season with their full preseason OL starter list ... but right now, they'll have 4 of those 5 back. They'll take a step forward. And they always find some way to smack Michigan. This feels like a doublesmack.Have you heard more about Jarvis? I haven't heard one way or the other whether he'll play.
Winovich, Paye, Uche, Dwumfour, Gary, and even Aidan Hutchinson are all way more explosive than Charlton, Glasgow, or Wormley ever dreamed of being.Charlton had like 10 sacks on the season and like 14 tfl's,that's pretty damn explosive.Have to wait to the end of the year to tally this groups numbers.I just remember that defense being pretty damn stoudt as a unit.Not sure about Sparty's O-Line but this year's edition of tOSU's has been underwhelming after losing 3 starters from last year.So not sure how M's line can be graded there.ND got Tommy Kraemer and Liam Eichenberg the top two players in Ohio in 2016 and it has panned out handsomely(for them).Man was I fooking P.O'd when they both left the state.So ND is the barometer for the season.And this could be the year M faces them again
The only guy who matched that kind of explosion is Hurst and he wasn't a starter on that line 2016.
This line is better imo.
Charlton had like 10 sacks on the season and like 14 tfl's,that's pretty damn explosive.Have to wait to the end of the year to tally this groups numbers.I just remember that defense being pretty damn stoudt as a unit.Not sure about Sparty's O-Line but this year's edition of tOSU's has been underwhelming after losing 3 starters from last year.So not sure how M's line can be graded there.ND got Tommy Kraemer and Liam Eichenberg the top two players in Ohio in 2016 and it has panned out handsomely(for them).Man was I fooking P.O'd when they both left the state.So ND is the barometer for the season.And this could be the year M faces them againYeah, by the end of the year, especially against OSU, Taco was an all-timer like Brandon Graham or Woodley. He didn't have the full career like them, but he ended at the same level.
Lewerke may throw the ball 50 times. And with White still out, and Stewart and Nailor unclear, that may not be a winning strategy.May not be? If he throws it 50 times that sounds like it’d be a disaster for MSU.
May not be? If he throws it 50 times that sounds like it’d be a disaster for MSU.Obviously if he doesn't have to throw it's better, but he's thrown it 50+ times to beat Penn State each of the last two years. So they CAN win by doing that, and the delta between their run blocking and pass blocking seems astronomical right now. I think a big portion of that is Chewins' back injury. It seem like he feels better moving and finding a guy to put a body on, rather than going straight up in run blocking.
Obviously if he doesn't have to throw it's better, but he's thrown it 50+ times to beat Penn State each of the last two years. So they CAN win by doing that, and the delta between their run blocking and pass blocking seems astronomical right now. I think a big portion of that is Chewins' back injury. It seem like he feels better moving and finding a guy to put a body on, rather than going straight up in run blocking.Penn State’s defense does not equal Michigan’s defense. They are in completely different lanes.
Penn State’s defense does not equal Michigan’s defense. They are in completely different lanes.I don't get the point. Yes, Michigan's defense is a lot better, against both pass and run. It's not like UM is back 4 loaded and PSU is front 4 loaded. With the central point still being that MSU doesn't only throw the ball when down multiple scores.
Lewerke got away with like 5 ints alone vs Penn State. Balls that were thrown right to defenders that should’ve been picked. Michigan’s DBs are not dropping those. He throws the ball to them, they will catch it.
***BIG TEN GAME OF THE WEEK*** |
#6 Michigan Wolverines (4-0, 6-1) at #24 Michigan State Spartans (2-1, 4-2) |
NOON - East Lansing, MI - FOX |
I've gone back and forth all week on this one. On paper, Michigan looks better, maybe substantially better. But that is about par for the course. Michigan has been favored in 6 of the last 9 matchups, and they've lost 4 of those times they were favored. The Spartans have won 8 of 10 outright, and covered in all 10. So that's been a decade straight where Michigan has not performed up to the pregame expectations. This week Michigan is favored for the 7th time in 10 games, by 7 points. Michigan doesn't care if they make it 11 straight years losing against the spread if they get the W. Michigan State shouldn't care about that number either, there's no "Defeat with Dignity" here. Granted there's also no referendum on them if they don't win. That certainly isn't the case for Michigan, which has to get a win here and/or in Columbus to prevent the offseason roars from becoming deafening. But they also can't make this game about that, this team is too good. Last weekend's craziness has ensured Michigan controls their own destiny when it comes to the College Football Playoff. So while beating Michigan State and Ohio State is important, that's not what defines the second half of this season. It's a season split between six cakewalk games and six massive tests to Harbaugh's program. Through the first three of those tests, Michigan is 2-1. What looked impossible in the preseason looks a little different now. Northwestern, Wisconsin, Michigan State and Penn State for sure do not look as formidable as they did preseason, and while it seems weird to say this about the #2 team in the nation, neither does Ohio State. The Spartans circled the wagons last week and pulled out a shorthanded stunner in Happy Valley, their 5th win in the last 6 games in the "rivalry," after losing 8 of the previous 10. If there's one thing Mark Dantonio has figured out, it's how to get his teams up for their three huge divisional games. Michigan State got slightly more creative with the playcalling than they had in previous weeks, trying to generate something from an offense that was down a starting running back, starting fullback, both starting guards, and was playing with one healthy scholarship receiver. They didn't get a ton of offense, but they got just enough. I doubt Michigan makes the same mistakes, leaving Felton Davis in single coverage far too often. Granted I kind of hope we see another battle between an MSU wide receiver and a UM cornerback like the show that Aaron Burbridge and Jourdan Lewis put on in 2015. Nobody is doing anything against this Michigan defense right now though. Michigan State's defense has been mostly up to the task too. They played better against the pass last week, the emergence of Khari Willis at safety has really helped there. Josiah Scott, the Spartans' best cornerback, who has missed the entire season, left some hints on social media that he'd be dressing, but if he's been practicing at all, it's been kept under wraps. Shea Patterson has looked more and more comfortable each week, and as he's done so he's looked like more and more a threat in the running game. The offense with him rolling out of the pocket is just so much better than when they try to force him into being the type of quarterback Harbaugh wants, which I think is the exact same type Bo wanted. Michigan State's defense has to prove they've improved a lot from Week 2, because what Manny Wilkins brought to the table is similar to what Patterson will. A great thrower, who is mobile enough to keep you honest, but still would ideally keep his head up and find the open receiver downfield. Wilkins missed on a couple of those, that Michigan State can't bank on Patterson missing. Granted Michigan doesn't have anyone, right now, like N'Keal Harry. A lot of what worked for Arizona State were the short crossing routes. Not the quick stuff that Clayton Thorson nickel and dimed Michigan State to death with, but longer developing plays, taking advantage of Wilkins buying extra time, and of Michigan State's lack of speed at the safety position. Patterson can hurt them the same way. So how can Michigan State win? Trade 3s for 7s. Michigan State is going to have some three and outs. I'd be shocked if Michigan doesn't win the yardage battle. So the Spartans have to convert the limited red zone shots they have, and keep force Nordin on to the field plenty for Michigan, who has struggled some this year. This is not without precedent, Michigan is only scoring touchdowns on 52.6% of their red zone possessions. Only Rutgers (50%) is worst. Conversely, Michigan State has only allowed touchdowns on 33.3% of their defensive red zone possessions, best in the conference, Michigan has allowed them on 75% of theirs, fifth worst. That's probably the only way this will happen, because I have a tough time seeing Michigan State generating much. But after picking Michigan to win this three years in a row, and being wrong twice, maybe I'll trust Michigan State in this rivalry until Michigan proves me wrong. I also already picked Michigan State to beat Northwestern comfortably, but lose to Indiana and badly to Penn State, so I clearly don't know my own team anyway. |
MICHIGAN STATE 27, MICHIGAN 26 |
Michigan’s DBs are not dropping those. He throws the ball to them, they will catch it.Proclamations you think your db won't drop passes - there is a reason they're not WR's.And didn't you call MSU getting slain last week?Hope it's a 1 pt game settled with time running out.Just saw that ELA,Atta Boy Sparty,early game i may not even have a frosty before it's over
Posters on the Red Cedar saying LJ'll be thereReport out tonight saying he is. Sound like it may have been turf toe? I mean, he's a senior, leaving anyway most likely. Might as well give it a try.
Apparently Devin Bush went out and started tearing up the midfield logo with his cleats during walk through this morning until an MSU assistant AD stopped him. Pretty fiery for a non rivalryhttps://twitter.com/DeeMac02/status/1053652592566460416?s=19
https://twitter.com/DeeMac02/status/1053652592566460416?s=19Yeah, not a big fan of Bush kicking up the Spartan at centerfield like that. Maybe something preceded it that could make me feel somewhat differently, but either way, no, that's pretty dumb. Makes us look bad.
I hate that we hate canned answers but then get mad when something like this happens. It's passion I actually like itI've never considered it like that - interesting.
I've never considered it like that - interesting.It's not like he took a cheap shot, or tried to injure some guy. You do stuff like this, you should probably back it up. And if you don't, and are ok answering for it, I really have no issue with it.
It's not like he took a cheap shot, or tried to injure some guy. You do stuff like this, you should probably back it up. And if you don't, and are ok answering for it, I really have no issue with it.Like getting posterized by a stiff arm on your second play is not an ideal follow.up.
MSU is Michigan's Super Bowlthink it's the other way around buddy.
Offensively, yes. Defensively, Bush, Long and Mettellus look like they want to eat someone's young on every play.those guys kinda always play like that though. Especially Bush.
For the most part he has some good assistants.So he has some solid help.So I hope things work out if he's on meds
Harbaugh looks like he's on some kind of antidepressant meds honestly. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he because: he's a crazy person. Dude has just lost his edge completely.
For the most part he has some good assistants.So he has some solid help.So I hope things work out if he's on medsI wouldn't go away thinking what MDot said about Harbaugh's health is true.
Yeah but it was Sparty. Harbaugh's already beaten them before. So that's nothing new. He just does it a little bit less inconsistently now.They got the "Top 25 road win" monkey off their back. That's not everything but it's a key milestone that is far better to pass now than later.
He still hasn't beaten Notre Dame since he was at Stanford, nor OSU since he was a player.
And Bowl Games....
I wouldn't go away thinking what MDot said about Harbaugh's health is true.Well the dude is different......Harbaugh/MDoT (https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/grin.gif)
I wouldn't go away thinking what MDot said about Harbaugh's health is true.I would. He's not the same guy that used to be a psycho on the sidelines. I'd bet good money he's on some sort of meds. The guy is crazy after all.
I would. He's not the same guy that used to be a psycho on the sidelines. I'd bet good money he's on some sort of meds. The guy is crazy after all.Or he just decided getting irate at refs was doing his team more harm than good ... or maybe the health of his youngest child has him distracted ... or ... or.
It's not like he took a cheap shot, or tried to injure some guy. You do stuff like this, you should probably back it up. And if you don't, and are ok answering for it, I really have no issue with it.Our MSU fan doesn't have a problem with it, I don't have a problem with it.
LOL Chase Winovich acting like they just knocked off the 85 BearsThey were the better team, and as I said, I don't mind anything Devin Bush did, backed it up, respect to him. But good Lord Winovich and his VH1 Divas hair are about as dislikable a player as UM has trotted out in a long, long, long time.
They were the better team, and as I said, I don't mind anything Devin Bush did, backed it up, respect to him. But good Lord Winovich and his VH1 Divas hair are about as dislikable a player as UM has trotted out in a long, long, long time.Really? I’m confused by this. There’s been Michigan players that I’ve disliked as a M fan because of their character or personality. Winovich seems like a really good kid. He was one of the most vocal leaders and advocates of the team supporting Chad tough last year. I think it’s easy to assume passion is arrogance. Seems like a good kid from almost all accounts.
The ND v Michigan game was on a hiatus. This is the first game Harbaugh coaches at Michigan vs Notre Dame. A close loss to open the season on the road, at ND, is pretty understandable.
He still hasn't beaten Notre Dame since he was at Stanford,
Good for him, glad he's still thinking about it 48 hours later.Except they had a win like that 2 years ago. In 2016. Harbaugh is now 2-0 in East Lansing. Would be 3-1 against Sparty if not for that fluke blocked punt return for TD with 8 seconds left in the game. That will haunt me forever.
The right response from MD now is exactly that. Go full snark. That he's happy for their players, to see them rush the field like that, it's good for them. A program win. They haven't had a win like that in 12 years, so he's glad they are still enjoying it and thinking about it 2 days later.
I doubt that's what we get, but that's what I'm rooting for.
I do find it funny that a little bit of gamesmanship both ways is still somehow a story 2 days later, but whatever.
I have a problem with Dantonio or MSU players or coaches acting like a bunch of sour pussies after the loss. You lost. Be a man and shut up and take the loss.I think your aim is a little off on which coach is still whining.
I think your aim is a little off on which coach is still whining.Nah.
Well, I don't want to see them swinging helmets at each other like in Miami a few years ago. So pre-game contact obviously needs to be managed. That should have been the coaching staff's job but if they're not doing it then the ADs and Big Ten need to get involved. If Dantonio had his team out there intentionally for their line dance when they were suppose to be elsewhere he should be reprimanded. Which I'm sure he'd wear as a badge of honor.All we know regarding the timing is that MSU publicises they do their team walk from the hotel at 9:45. They advertise it. It usually takes about 15 minutes, they walk the field, then it's done. UM came out at 9:50. MSU arrived at 10:02. My guess is someone from UM asked what time they did the walk at, they were told 9:45. Somewhere someone probably should have clarified or asked what that meant. UM comes out at 9:50, assumed they walked the field at 9:45 and are done, MSU arrives 10 minutes later. MSU officials try to clear the field. All except Bush, Hudson and one other player do. They play a weird game of chicken. Hudson, and whoever was walking where he was accommodated each other, unlocked arms and he turned sideways. Whoever was lined up with Bush wasn't going to do that, Bush wasn't going to do what Hudson did, and you get what happened. Bush goes crazy. He's a captain. His teammates voted him captain. They know who he is. They know that's what they like from him. It fires them up. Cool beans. That's what captains do. End of story, or not. But certainly no big deal, either way, as I said on here Saturday morning. I like everyone to be who they are. 97 guys on UM's roster are like, hey, let's step over here for a second. Bush and Hudson say nah, but when it comes down to it, Hudson, and whatever MSU players walked around him have a limited level of asshole, and both sort of back down. Bush, and whoever was over there didn't. But it's authentic, and harmless. Despite any hilarious attempts to play it up into something more.
Devin Bush got his Tianemen Square Insta photo out of it too.If I were him, that picture is blown up and hanging in my house forever
Lost in all of the bluster is the fact that Mark Dantonio is 13-12 since the beginning of the 2016 season. 3-6 against Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State.While he SHOULD be, unfortunately I don't think he is. Dantonio's loyalty will be the end of him. Not in terms of a hot seat, he'll retire in East Lansing, MSU fans are not unrealistic as to what they are. Basically we were hoping Dantonio would be our Ferentz, make us Iowa, and he's exceeded that. We are the #2 program in a state without a ton of high school talent, with a helmet school within our state as well as both border states (excluding the UP touching Wisconsin). 2013-2015 so vastly exceeded expectations, but I don't think anyone thought those days were going to last forever when you are in a division with 3 helmet schools.
I know the Offensive Coordinator sits on a very hot seat right now, but that was a recognized problem going into the season. MD chose to roll with it. Crowley Sullivan should have plenty of loaded questions for the next Dantonio presser. I get the heat on Harbaugh. The jury is still out on how this season plays out. Does Dantonio face some heat now? He built the empire, but it has some cracks in the foundation, and like Harbaugh, it appears loyalty and stubbornness might be holding him back to some degree.
I think your aim is a little off on which coach is still whining.no doubt. Simple factual question: who started whining after the game? Answer- Booger eater, just like always. Whining about the refs or whining about the other team...seems like it never stops with him.
And FTR, I said pregame I had no problem with anything Devin Bush did, or anything that happened pregame
Question:I'd be good with both of them gone, but Warner calls the plays.
Why is it Warner and not Bollman getting the blast? I'm admitting my ignorance here, but is there an indication Warner is the main guy?
no doubt. Simple factual question: who started whining after the game? Answer- Booger eater, just like always. Whining about the refs or whining about the other team...seems like it never stops with him.I always find it juvenile when grown adults throw out childish nicknames for coaches or schools, Michigan fans included. It cheapens all of what follows. It’s something you see with frequency in the Twitter sphere and ESPN, but not often here.
I'd be good with both of them gone, but Warner calls the plays.Ahh, makes sense.
Ahh, makes sense.well Enos was at Michigan for about 30 minutes then bolted for Alabama. Alabama's offense looks the best it ever has. Enos might be a name to watch for bigger jobs in the future if Alabama/Tua keep playing like this. And I see no reason why to think they won't keep smashing offensive records.
I forgot Treadwell had been that good. Give him the job. Enos was interesting for a year or two, but then Arky went south.
I always find it juvenile when grown adults throw out childish nicknames for coaches or schools, Michigan fans included. It cheapens all of what follows. It’s something you see with frequency in the Twitter sphere and ESPN, but not often here.Well I am glad you feel that way. UM fans are the kings of juvenile nicknames.
It also must be quite the paradox for an Ohio State fan to critique a coaches press conferences. Glass houses and all. On the other hand who better to critique, given Urban Meyer’s run of failed offseason press conferences and statements, each time clarifying the previous one’s “misstatements.”
There has been a lot of back and forth in this Michigan and Michigan State rivalry between coaches and players. It’s what i would expect of a rivalry. The most agitated party appears to be some Ohio State fans.
Well I am glad you feel that way. UM fans are the kings of juvenile nicknames.you're joking right?
But I find your response odd..in a thread where people are debating Harbooger and Dantonio, you feel the need to inject Meyer??
Have at it. You can’t say anything about him that has not been said. It’s well documented that he is a horrible coach, the words biggest liar, a big phony, etc etc.
But I can’t remember a single case since he was at OSU where he whined about the other team or the officiating. The Michigan coach just can’t help himself, he can’t even take the high road after a big win. But go ahead, blame it on Dantonio or Meyer or Ohio State fans.
you're joking right?I clarified about Mira only since he’s been at OSU. When he was told how Barrett got injured because of too many cameramen on the sideline all he said was we need to look into that. Hardly whining. He doesn’t cry after a loss like hardball does and complain about the officiating. But we do agree that most successful head coaches are assholes. I would probably debate you on Dantonio who I think has more class than most coaches combined but that’s just me
Guy whined about too many camera men on the sideline after a win. Guy whined in front of the national media to get his Florida team in to the BCS title the year the Gators smoked Ohio State.
Dantonio is a complete asshole. I have no problem with his attitude/behavior. And I have no problem with Harbaugh calling him out. Most of these top coaches- newsflash: they are assholes. You don't become a great football coach being Mr. Rogers- hey everybody let's hold hands and sing songs.
Granted I'm surprised they were able to still play after taking such a vicious "clothesline" following "an orchestrated stormstrooper "march."Well ... storm troopers are mostly famous for their incompetence, right?
People grouping together and hating all Michigan fans again. Must mean Michigan is good again.Meh- those truths were always true, and my position on Harbaugh has been rock solid from day one. Good coach, real asshole. Same way you feel about Meyer.
Meh- those truths were always true, and my position on Harbaugh has been rock solid from day one. Good coach, real asshole. Same way you feel about Meyer.Nah, Harbaugh is just a really weird dude, whereas Meyer is a snake and a liar and a person that steps on others to raise himself up. That opinion was formed in Bowling Green 17 years ago and nothing I’ve seen since has changed that.
If a player from another team did and said what Winovich has, you would be ALL OVER
That player.
Let’s not get the “ we can dish it out but we can’t take it” going on.
Nah, Harbaugh is just a really weird dude, whereas Meyer is a snake and a liar and a person that steps on others to raise himself up. That opinion was formed in Bowling Green 17 years ago and nothing I’ve seen since has changed that.So we agree to disagree who the real snake is. It’s all good. If I had an athlete primed to play in the big, there is only one coach I wouldn’t allow him to play for. Reason being, one of my biggest teachings is the - no whining, no excuses, and be humble. Harbaugh fails all three consistently. But to you that is just weird I guess. No harm no foul.
If I was an opposing fan, I’m sure I wouldn’t like Winovich if that interview was mostly what I knew of him. Nearly everyone that comes across him loves his energy and his upbeat spirit towards life. Seems to be a very high character guy. He had an immature moment after a big win.
So we agree to disagree who the real snake is. It’s all good. If I had an athlete primed to play in the big, there is only one coach I wouldn’t allow him to play for. Reason being, one of my biggest teachings is the - no whining, no excuses, and be humble. Harbaugh fails all three consistently. But to you that is just weird I guess. No harm no foul.Values that a program instills are critically important to uphold. I can definitely see where you are coming from. They are so important they should be plastered at the front entrance of your complex to remind you to honor them each day.
So we agree to disagree who the real snake is. It’s all good. If I had an athlete primed to play in the big, there is only one coach I wouldn’t allow him to play for. Reason being, one of my biggest teachings is the - no whining, no excuses, and be humble. Harbaugh fails all three consistently. But to you that is just weird I guess. No harm no foul.Not sure I follow.
Pretty sure Harbaugh has been a snake and a liar, too. Ask Erik Swenson. Also Harbaugh has been arrested multiple times. If he coached under Urban then Urban would get flak for hiring him.My interest here isn't in this womp-womp crap fight about the morals of Meyer v. Harbaugh v. Dantonio, just in accuracy about the Swenson thing.
Pretty sure Harbaugh has been a snake and a liar, too. Ask Erik Swenson. Also Harbaugh has been arrested multiple times. If he coached under Urban then Urban would get flak for hiring him.Or once. 15 years ago with a .09 OVI. From which he called a team meeting and met with administration the next day and apologized for his mistakes. Facts are hard to come by, I guess. A good lesson for Urban on personal accountability actually
Or once. 15 years ago with a .09 OVI. From which he called a team meeting and met with administration the next day and apologized for his mistakes. Facts are hard to come by, I guess. A good lesson for Urban on personal accountability actuallyhttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1988-05-31-8801040010-story.html
Love how a Michigan / Michigan State game thread has turned into Ohio State fans whining about Jim Harbaugh whining. Don’t let your kids play for a complainer, but definitely send them to a staff that includes Meyer, Schiano, Zach Smith, and Wilson. Ohh, the skeletons. Righteous indignation!!
We all have opinions, but I have no problem calling a coach a liar if he knows a kid thinks he has a scholarship offer when he doesn't. So I have no problem calling Harbaugh a liar for that.I try to judge behaviors as themselves rather than judge people for their behaviors. So whereas I believe in lies, I don't have any use for blanketly calling a person a liar/smelly/failure/success. I only have use for specifically pointing out the times they lied/smelled/failed/succeeded.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1988-05-31-8801040010-story.htmloooh, that's a huge crime
BEARS` HARBAUGH IS ARRESTED ON DISORDERLY CONDUCT CHARGE
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1988-05-31-8801040010-story.htmlFor sure, DUI is pretty terrible. Not irredeemable, and I'm glad he's turned it around, but wreckless/dangerous.
BEARS` HARBAUGH IS ARRESTED ON DISORDERLY CONDUCT CHARGE
Or once. 15 years ago with a .09 OVI. From which he called a team meeting and met with administration the next day and apologized for his mistakes. Facts are hard to come by, I guess. A good lesson for Urban on personal accountability actuallyIt was a thread about Harbaugh and Dantonio. Who turned it into an OSU thread? YOU!!
Love how a Michigan / Michigan State game thread has turned into Ohio State fans whining about Jim Harbaugh whining. Don’t let your kids play for a complainer, but definitely send them to a staff that includes Meyer, Schiano, Zach Smith, and Wilson. Ohh, the skeletons. Righteous indignation!!
I try to judge behaviors as themselves rather than judge people for their behaviors. So whereas I believe in lies, I don't have any use for blanketly calling a person a liar/smelly/failure/success. I only have use for specifically pointing out the times they lied/smelled/failed/succeeded.No, I'm saying that the coaching staff, with Harbaugh's approval, never told him he was losing his offer up until they squeezed him out. I think that is lying. They didn't tell him he would lose his offer if he didn't show up to camp. It is also extremely obvious that he thought he was in the class and wasn't losing his spot. The coaching staff felt comfortable going along with that until they wanted other players.
And (aside from the benefit of limiting my judginess) here is another situation where the distinction seems to matter. You're noticing that Swenson was told that he had to do X to get Y, didn't do X (work out in front of coaches), lost Y (his scholarship), and are effectively responding that "this thing that wasn't a lie feels like the sort of crummy thing liars would do."
oooh, that's a huge crimeIt is not a huge crime - my point was that Urban would get a lot of heat for having a coach on his staff who has been arrested multiple times.
same with drunken driving with no damage or victim, imo
No, I'm saying that the coaching staff, with Harbaugh's approval, never told him he was losing his offer up until they squeezed him out. I think that is lying. They didn't tell him he would lose his offer if he didn't show up to camp. It is also extremely obvious that he thought he was in the class and wasn't losing his spot. The coaching staff felt comfortable going along with that until they wanted other players.Ah, then you are just mistaken. Prior to the summer camps Michigan hosted 6+ months before signing day, they told Erik he had committed to the last staff but needed to work out for the new staff or that his scholarship could be taken at any time. From there, the situation was mismanaged by both sides. Harbaugh made bad mistakes of style and timing (should have pulled the trigger a month sooner). But his original warning stood as precisely true and delivered well in advance.
Ah, then you are just mistaken. Prior to the summer camps Michigan hosted 6+ months before signing day, they told Erik he had to work out or that his scholarship could be taken at any time. From there, the situation was mismanaged by both sides. Harbaugh made bad mistakes of style and timing (should have pulled the trigger a month sooner). But his original warning stood as precisely true and delivered well in advance.Harbaugh himself doesn't give that version of events.
I just read it. His story and mine are identical, except he shares more details. Would you benefit if I copy/paste the sections where Harbaugh retells how he asked Erik to attend multiple camps so that Erik (a Hoke commit) could be evaluated by Harbaugh's staff and Erik multiply declined?I don't think that is necessary. You said the staff told him if he didn't come to camps he could lose his offer. It doesn't appear they told him that until just before pulling his offer, based on Harbaugh's own words.
Like I said earlier, Michigan is clearly fielding a good football team again. If Harbaugh is the ONLY coach in the Big Ten you wouldn't let an athlete play for, then you have questionable judgment of character at best.I don't have any major problems with him. At the end of the day, coaches spend 99% of their energy on winning football games, and it's all this other stuff that they don't care about that gets thrown around.
I'm good with a guy that passes along the message of his mentor "when you guys come back 15, 20, years from now and we know what kind of men you are, what kind of husbands you’ve become, what kind of fathers you are, then we’ll now how good this football team is.”
I see Harbaugh taking his team to Rome and trip trying to shape who they are as people as much as he's trying to shape them as athletes. That's the one guy you wouldn't want someone to play for? Really?
I don't think that is necessary. You said the staff told him if he didn't come to camps he could lose his offer. It doesn't appear they told him that until just before pulling his offer, based on Harbaugh's own words.That was your take-away? It would have struck me as unnecessarily inflammatory for him to say that explicitly to a reporter ("and as soon as he declined to come to camp for us for the second time, he put himself in the bucket where he could lose his offer, at any time, just like we said"). All that mattered is that he said it to Swenson.
I don't have any major problems with him. At the end of the day, coaches spend 99% of their energy on winning football games, and it's all this other stuff that they don't care about that gets thrown around.Wasn't directed at your. My only question is was Urban under the microscope prior to everything that happened with Zack Smith? He took a lot of heat IMO because of his smugness at his press conferences. He stands up and says the PC answer, I don't think it's that hot in the kitchen.
I've always thought a rivalry is any game that means more than if you pared it down to just the tangible standings importance of the gameThat’s a good way of summarizing it. Rivalries can evolve too. Michigan / MN isn’t what it was in the 60’s & 70’s, even though it’s a cool trophy game with history. On the other end there are some newer forced rivalries with expansion that may not have gained the appropriate steam to meet the standard too.
Big Ten fines Sparty $10K.....And repremands Dantonio, Harbaugh and Bush for conduct.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/big-ten/2018/10/24/big-ten-fines-msu-10-k-reprimands-dantonio-harbaugh-bush/1756031002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/big-ten/2018/10/24/big-ten-fines-msu-10-k-reprimands-dantonio-harbaugh-bush/1756031002/)
And repremands Dantonio, Harbaugh and Bush for conduct.Yeah, yesterday the Big Ten office kind of ruined what was entirely fine rivalry stuff. It was also contradictory. How do you reprimand one team for what you've fined the other team for (and vice versa)?
Hopefully this is the end of this non story.