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Topic: White Out Your Life 9/29/18 SOC
(Read 18033 times)

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #154 on:** October 01, 2018, 08:18:18 AM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 01, 2018, 07:57:24 AM

Urban's wrong,Franklin's wrong,Herstriet's wrong,3 PSU websites are wrong.Gotcha

What is your problem? Why are you even debating this? It is obvious you have no clue about this stuff.
Urban is quoted in the article as saying they knew it was some form of Zone read. He agrees with what I am showing you on film.Franklin said they had run the play earlier with success, but still took the blame for calling it. Herbie’s reaction was based on live speed, just like mine and everyone else’s. You can’t see everything until you see film.
The film is OBVIOUS.
If you want to argue, for some unknown reason, and deny what is obvious on film, have at it. I can’t argue with someone who clearly knows nothing about how modern plays are designed.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #155 on:** October 01, 2018, 09:34:33 AM »

I didn't like the call myself, mostly because it didn't work.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #156 on:** October 01, 2018, 09:35:20 AM »

Syracuse had a late 4th down with the lead and called a jump pass to the TE, which worked, and looked terrific, though they had a lineman downfield and it was called back. Cost them the game probably.

I didn't like that call either.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #157 on:** October 01, 2018, 10:12:57 AM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 01, 2018, 07:57:24 AM

Urban's wrong,Franklin's wrong,Schian's wrongHerstriet's wrong,3 PSU websites are wrong.Gotcha,again for your edification

"The quarterback is their guy, obviously," said head coach Urban Meyer. "He's a winner, he's competitor, and he's a great, great player, so the conversation was that somehow they were going to get him involved in that play. So [defensive coordinator Greg Schiano] came up to me and said, OK, let's burn a timeout. Let's see what they're in. Right before the snap we did and we could hear over the head sets that they were going to get a zone read and get the quarterback involved."
But they didn't.

Urban didn't say the "But they didn't" part. A zone read is by nature getting the QB involved.
That said, they ran stunts against it. McSorley is reading an end that's looping inside. He gets a hint confused, blockers get very confused. The tackle on the side he's watching is coming wide, and a lineman on the other side is unblocked and makes the play.
If it's a straight handoff, McSorley isn't looking at the edge or taking as long as he does with the handoff. Unless that's part of an elaborate fake.
Now, that doesn't speak to the quality of the play. Looking at the parts, it tells you PSU has some confidence on a screen or zone read to get 5 yards when they need them. That feels aggressive to me, though I neither have the data nor the feel on PSU's effectiveness there. PSU thought it was effective enough and OSU thought PSU thought it was effective enough. I'd rather McSorley working out of a spread set and letting the chips fall where they may, but that's hindsight as much as anything.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #158 on:** October 01, 2018, 10:23:37 AM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on September 30, 2018, 07:37:07 PM

This is asinine.
A good play call can fail. A horrible one can go for a TD.
Process > Result

Correct, but just because something is "surprising" on our level doesn't really mean good process. If Florida runs the wishbone on 3rd and 22, that's a surprise, but not a good call.
What makes a good call is something more subtle. Sometimes you run exactly what's expected, but you run it so effectively, it's good anyway. Sometimes you run something that works against an opponent's strengths, even if they know it'll happen. Sometimes you break tendencies, sometimes you build them.
Urban said a zone read there wasn't a surprise to him. Perhaps PSU had reached for it in some big moments before. These coaches watch all the film, from better angles, with a better eye, in a more rhythmic fashion. Their sense of tendencies is just more advanced than our own.
(For some reason, this reminds me of a few offenses I watched back in the day that liked to go against standard tendencies. They liked to pass on 1st and 10, a run-heavy down, and pass on 2nd and 10, a pass down. And like anything else, it seemed smart when it worked and irked folks when it didn't. More than one way to skin a cat)

bayareabadger · « **Reply #159 on:** October 01, 2018, 10:27:37 AM »

Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on September 30, 2018, 12:04:28 PM

Eh, the "white outs" are getting kinda weird.
A bunch of dudes waving pom poms the entire time? I dunno.
"Male" cheerleaders don't even do that.

Quote from: Anonymous Coward on September 30, 2018, 02:52:34 PM

I'm conflicted about pom poms. I usually dislike them. They just don't seem to fit with football - seem soft and classically feminine. On the other hand, the visual effect can be incredible, and they only increment fan participation.

If this threatens one's manliness, there are probably some thunder sticks that can be provided

Cincydawg · « **Reply #160 on:** October 01, 2018, 11:36:23 AM »

Interesting discussion about what constitutes a "good call".

I'd opine one metric is when a play does NOT work but is viewed as a good call.

Announcers sometimes say a long incomplete pass is a "good call".

Mdot21 · « **Reply #161 on:** October 01, 2018, 11:40:23 AM »

Wisconsin @ Michigan will be a night game. Kick off at 7:30pm. Literally just announced on twitter by Michigan.

Brutus Buckeye · « **Reply #162 on:** October 01, 2018, 11:42:29 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 01, 2018, 10:27:37 AM

If this threatens one's manliness, there are probably some thunder sticks that can be provided

It's PA. White TerribleTowels would be a tremendous improvement.

SuperMario · « **Reply #163 on:** October 01, 2018, 12:47:04 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on September 30, 2018, 10:23:06 PM

Michigan loses last night without Patterson. Some of those throws he made in the 2nd half were unbelievable. Flat out great NFL QB throws.

That's an absolutely absurd statement. What pass? His 7 yard pass to Nico? His 9 yard pass to Wangler? The 13 yarder to Gentry?
Patterson has shown a fear or inability to throw down field. His best asset right now are his legs, keeping him out of trouble. So far, I've seen nothing special about the kid. With QB's, you either have "IT" or you don't. Coming from a Browns fan that has seen junk for two decades, I'm good at picking out average QBs. When a Baker Mayfield steps in front of you, you know what's special and what's not. Patterson is not special, nor is he the savior of Michigan football. Something that a lot of people will learn against PSU, MSU & Wisconsin shortly.
Many people will blame the play calling and I have been one of them, but Patterson actually had plenty of opportunities to throw down field on Saturday and he didn't pull the trigger on multiple occasions. McCaffrey may not have as strong of an arm, but he had an it factor. I'll take poise & decision making over arm strength.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #164 on:** October 01, 2018, 01:49:21 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 01, 2018, 08:18:18 AM

What is your problem? Why are you even debating this? It is obvious you have no clue about this stuff.
Urban is quoted in the article as saying they knew it was some form of Zone read. He agrees with what I am showing you on film.Franklin said they had run the play earlier with success, but still took the blame for calling it. Herbie’s reaction was based on live speed, just like mine and everyone else’s. You can’t see everything until you see film.
The film is OBVIOUS.
If you want to argue, for some unknown reason, and deny what is obvious on film, have at it. I can’t argue with someone who clearly knows nothing about how modern plays are designed.

It's clear from other debates that if someone disagrees they don't have a clue.Do you have a problem with what coaches or other websites state?You seem to think football is set piece procedure.Try misdirection we use to run a lot of that in HS 3 receiver(wr,te,wing back) sets on wide side run a quick pitch or sweep short side,looking at like you do if that was stuffed immediately by a blitz you would say they were running/throwing wide side because it made sense instead of out guessing the opponent

bayareabadger · « **Reply #165 on:** October 01, 2018, 02:20:37 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 01, 2018, 01:49:21 PM

It's clear from other debates that if someone disagrees they don't have a clue.Do you have a problem with what coaches or other websites state?You seem to think football is set piece procedure.Try misdirection we use to run a lot of that in HS 3 receiver(wr,te,wing back) sets on wide side run a quick pitch or sweep short side,looking at like you do if that was stuffed immediately by a blitz you would say they were running/throwing wide side because it made sense instead of out guessing the opponent

It seems you're maybe arguing two separate points. HB is arguing the zone read vs. called handoff thing, all within the context of an RPO and not doing it all the politely. (FWIW, it was almost assuredly a zone read within an RPO)
You seem to be arguing if it was a good call or not (I think?), and referencing this batch of stories that all don't seem to say it was a designed handoff (maybe Herbie did). I'm super confused about the short side sweep/WR-TE-WB thing.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #166 on:** October 01, 2018, 05:34:47 PM »

Not one beat writer or fan or blogger has said - with the little bit of time I've that McSorley made a bad read.None of the PSU coaches,the reporters,writers.If McSorley made a bad read you'd think at least one writer,reporter,blogger in the fookin' state might have mentioned it.McSorley still would have had a great game even with a bad read at the end - yet crickets,IMO it was a designed run.And I don't need to hear what a dumbshit I am for having that opinion.Specially when I've not heard or read any proof to the contrary,Herbstreit did not retract his statement and Franklin doesn't want to talk about it - end of rant

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #167 on:** October 01, 2018, 06:12:18 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 01, 2018, 01:49:21 PM

It's clear from other debates that if someone disagrees they don't have a clue.Do you have a problem with what coaches or other websites state?You seem to think football is set piece procedure.Try misdirection we use to run a lot of that in HS 3 receiver(wr,te,wing back) sets on wide side run a quick pitch or sweep short side,looking at like you do if that was stuffed immediately by a blitz you would say they were running/throwing wide side because it made sense instead of out guessing the opponent

That’s rich, coming from the person who is the most opinionated on this forum!
Look, watch the film, and if you still think that was a designed handoff, and not what the film obviously shows, then that’s fine.
What you and I think is not important, the film tells all.

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Topic: White Out Your Life 9/29/18 SOC

Honestbuckeye

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Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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bayareabadger

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bayareabadger

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bayareabadger

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Cincydawg

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Mdot21

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Brutus Buckeye

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SuperMario

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MrNubbz

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bayareabadger

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MrNubbz

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Honestbuckeye

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