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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #12082 on: August 05, 2025, 02:15:42 PM »
At least one site I read indicated that PHEVs qualify under the CA rule (which is new car sales, not all cars obviously).  If so, this is easily traversed.  Hyundai would take our regular hybrid and have a plug in for 110v.  I think reality is this requirement will end up sliding into the future, but maybe by 2035 we'll have EVs so competitive the rule won't even be needed.

It still costs a ton to charge away from home, usually.

US Senate to vote this week on bill to bar California 2035 EV plan | Reuters

SFBadger96

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #12083 on: August 05, 2025, 02:53:54 PM »
I keep hearing whispers that hydrogen is the much better choice for replacing internal combustion, but maybe that's like holding out hope for betamax or laser discs for video. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #12084 on: August 05, 2025, 03:15:58 PM »
There is a lot of hype on hydrogen, especially in social media (not always reliable).  I had thought hydrogen would be good for heavy trucks, we'd have truck stops with hydrogen like long ago they were the only places that sold Diesel.  Fuel cells have a lot of advantages over batteries.  I thought autos would largely be EVs with their own "refueling" stations.  And maybe that happens, in time.  Hydrogen today has two primary issues, it has to be made, using a lot of electricity, and it is difficult to transport from A to B (unlike electricity).

Another thing that appears to be happening is discovery of hydrogen underground.  I can't peel back whether that is practicable or just hype.  If practicable it's huge.  And hydrogen also can be burned in an ICE, Internal Combustion Engine, as well as in a fuel cell.  I know a few H2 powered cars have been sold in CA, the main issue remains refueling.  I know folks talk about the Hinderburg, which I think is probably not a major issue.  Batteries can burn, the hydrogen is in pretty well protected storage cells.

In an auto, if available, hydrogen would be very similar to refueling with gasoline.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #12085 on: August 05, 2025, 03:30:05 PM »
I keep hearing whispers that hydrogen is the much better choice for replacing internal combustion, but maybe that's like holding out hope for betamax or laser discs for video.
Like a lot of things, I think it solves some problems and creates new ones...

As I've said, I think one of the key issues with BEVs is that to be truly successful, you *must* reduce the battery cost and weight. But ultimately you're at the mercy of battery chemistry development here. How far in the future do we need to be before we've developed the right formula for energy density that solves the cost/weight problem? What if the answer doesn't exist--or doesn't exist for another 2 decades? And even if you do this, what if we can't actually extract the amount of lithium we need to meet demand? What if the environmental effects of all that lithium mining are terrible? 

Hydrogen doesn't have that issue. You'll have a fuel tank cell just like a normal car. With rapid refueling, you don't have to worry as much about range, so you don't put a ton of heavy batteries into your car. And I mean that literally--the extended range battery for the F-150 Lightning weighs more than a ton. 

The problem with hydrogen right now is the supply chain. Producing hydrogen is apparently VERY energy-intensive and this makes it costly as a fuel. Google AI suggests something like the Toyota Mirai costs ~$0.50/mi, whereas a typical gas car might be ~$0.16/mi and a battery electric ~$0.04/mi. 

So IMHO if you solve the hydrogen production/cost problem, it might be that "much better choice". If the real answer is that it's going to remain >10x the cost of battery? Well, you might as well claim that unicorn farts are a much better choice; it still won't make it viable. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #12086 on: August 05, 2025, 03:36:26 PM »
Natural hydrogen: Mining giants and Big Oil jump on the bandwagon

If this is practicable on a large scale, it would be HUGE, life changing for many of us.

Natural hydrogen, sometimes known as white, gold or geologic hydrogen, refers to hydrogen gas that is found in its natural form beneath Earth’s surface. The long-overlooked resource, first discovered by accident in Mali nearly 40 years ago, contains no carbon and produces only water when burned.
Investor interest in the nascent natural hydrogen sector has been intensifying in recent months, fueling optimism initially driven by research startups and junior exploration companies.
Over the past year or so, some of the sector’s established backers include mining giants Rio Tinto and Fortescue, Russia’s state-owned energy giant Gazprom, the venture capital arm of British oil giant BP and Bill Gates’ clean tech investment fund Breakthrough Energy Ventures.



Not everyone’s convinced about the clean energy potential of natural hydrogen, however, with critics flagging environmental concerns and distribution challenges. For its part, the International Energy Agency has warned there is a possibility that the resource “is too scattered to be captured in a way that is economically viable.”

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #12087 on: August 05, 2025, 03:44:29 PM »
might be good for jet airliners and ships
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