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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4228 on: February 16, 2021, 07:49:45 AM »
The do something approach is futile, and expensive obviously, but some here stick their heads in the sand and pretend otherwise.

I think we should deal with reality, not goals and conferences and fairy tales, this is just simple math.

Politicians like to sell fairy tales because it enables them to waste more money.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4229 on: February 16, 2021, 07:53:00 AM »
I just have to shake my head and laugh at the idea that there is nothing we can do.  There are almost limitless approaches we could take given the we know what the main issue is and how to mitigate it.  But we have been sold so many fairy tales that there is nothing you can do, and people eat it up because doing something requires effort and doing nothing requires, well, nothing.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4230 on: February 16, 2021, 07:54:15 AM »
Nuke China.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4231 on: February 16, 2021, 07:57:32 AM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on February 16, 2021, 07:53:00 AM
I just have to shake my head and laugh at the idea that there is nothing we can do.  There are almost limitless approaches we could take given the we know what the main issue is and how to mitigate it.  But we have been sold so many fairy tales that there is nothing you can do, and people eat it up because doing something requires effort and doing nothing requires, well, nothing.
You say this, and then offer zero detail.  I backed up my position with many credible links and hard data.

What do you offer?

Vague aphorisms and platitudes, and zero information.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4232 on: February 16, 2021, 08:08:33 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 07:57:32 AM
You say this, and then offer zero detail.  I backed up my position with many credible links and hard data.

What do you offer?

Vague aphorisms and platitudes, and zero information.
I just don't want to rehash the same things to be told they won't be read and won't be followed.  The issue isn't lack of options, it is political will to do anything about it.  The United States can't even agree there is an issue at all, and the nature of environmental policy means everyone has to get more or less on the same page to tackle a problem.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4233 on: February 16, 2021, 08:15:33 AM »
Ergo, you have nothing, as usual, but platitudes and complaints about how folks deny there is a problem.  

I think it's time to face reality.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4234 on: February 16, 2021, 08:19:08 AM »
We all know there is a problem. There doesn't appear to be any truly viable solutions - particularly when you consider China and India will do nothing.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4235 on: February 16, 2021, 08:22:45 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 16, 2021, 08:15:33 AM
Ergo, you have nothing, as usual, but platitudes and complaints about how folks deny there is a problem. 

I think it's time to face reality.
LOL yeah the "reality" that there is nothing that can be done despite knowing there are many things that can be done.   

In any event, back in reality, all runaway environmental issues tend to come from the same place.  That is the cost of polluting is cheaper (or in this case free) so there is no economic sense for people to choose not to pollute.  All of the costs are sent down the road to pay later (and hopefully by someone else).  So the solution has to revolve around imposing costs on polluting.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4236 on: February 16, 2021, 08:27:14 AM »
What is one significant thing that practicably could be done in the US that would have a large impact on the CO2 numbers I've shown?

The math is hard.  Time to face reality, instead of vague platitudes.

Where is a plan?  What is the cost and benefit?  Hand waving doesn't impress me.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4237 on: February 16, 2021, 08:57:45 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on February 15, 2021, 11:14:10 AM
Never fear, Bill Gates is working on new nuclear

https://www.terrapower.com/people/bill-gates/
Bill Gates doesn't think it's useless obviously, because he's pumping some of his own money into it.

He's covering all bases (nuclear, solar, wind, pulling CO2 out of the air)  and thinks it's maybe possible to have a positive affect.

"Without innovation, we will not solve climate change. We won't even come close," Gates says.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-gates-climate-change-disaster-60-minutes-2021-02-14/
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4238 on: February 16, 2021, 09:00:01 AM »
It is "maybe possible" to have a positive effect, it's just not going to be nearly enough to hit goals or seriously diminish the issue.

The math is pretty clear and simple.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4239 on: February 16, 2021, 09:10:49 AM »
Gates goals might not be as far fetched.  Or he could just be trying to pump money into his bank account.

I like and understand the idea of preparing for the inevitable, but perhaps some things can be done with a cost benefit or decent ROI 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4240 on: February 16, 2021, 09:19:34 AM »
Without innovation, we can't solve climate change.

That is what I've been posting here, repeatedly.  So, what innovation is on the horizon somewhere? Nuclear fusion?  That seems at best 50 years off from real production of power.  Wind mill and solar cell efficiencies are nearing theoretical limits.  Battery tech is getting better, bit by bit.

We need real solutions, not someday imaginary ones.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4241 on: February 16, 2021, 09:26:52 AM »
Saving money drives innovation. The difficulty with fossil fuels is precisely that they are cheap and easy. Without attaching costs to carbon polluting, there is little reason to innovate.
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