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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2478 on: May 12, 2020, 10:40:47 AM »
It'd most likely decimate the boating, RV, and general "recreational driving" industries.

CWSooner

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2479 on: May 12, 2020, 10:41:49 AM »
Meanwhile, we're having mid-March weather as we approach mid-May.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2480 on: May 12, 2020, 10:43:01 AM »
I don't think it's a very good option, upon review.

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2481 on: May 12, 2020, 10:46:58 AM »
It'd most likely decimate the boating, RV, and general "recreational driving" industries.
Meh. People have been trying to kill those things off for years. Boaters are gonna boat.


I get about 3/4 mile per gallon on mine. When gas was $5/gallon, we still used it. Now it will probably be $2.50 gallon. We'll use it about the same, although for less months, as Lake Michigan, I think, is still iced-over. Hard to tell from down here.
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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2482 on: May 12, 2020, 10:49:17 AM »
Meh. People have been trying to kill those things off for years. Boaters are gonna boat.


I get about 3/4 mile per gallon on mine. When gas was $5/gallon, we still used it. Now it will probably be $2.50 gallon. We'll use it about the same, although for less months, as Lake Michigan, I think, is still iced-over. Hard to tell from down here.
You're not going to move the boat down to Florida?

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2483 on: May 12, 2020, 10:56:51 AM »
It'd most likely decimate the boating, RV, and general "recreational driving" industries.
It would have an impact, as previous hikes in fuel prices have had.  That of course is part of the point.

My proposal which I suggested around 1990 was to have a hike in the gasoline tax of perhaps a nickel a gallon each Jan 1 for ten years.  You could plan for it, and the revenue would be used to improve our highway infrastructure.  We could still do that of course.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2484 on: May 12, 2020, 10:57:23 AM »
my golf cart doesn't use much gas
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2485 on: May 12, 2020, 11:01:10 AM »
You're not going to move the boat down to Florida?
The plan was to live on in the summer months, in Kenosha.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2486 on: May 12, 2020, 11:22:33 AM »
I think if "we" collectively really really believe CC was a looming crisis and we HAD to do something drastic NOW, we'd be behaving much differently.  Obviously, countries would be pushing wind and solar, fine, carry on, but that won't get us "there" fast enough.

The ONLY currently available technology is nuclear, and oddly enough countries aside from France are moving away from that as an option.  (There is noise in France of course, but nothing realistic.)  It would be technically possible to replace every coal fired plant in the US with nuclear in a decade.  And yes, it would be costly.  Every nuclear plant seems to have horrendous cost overruns (Vogtle).  Perhaps that could be mitigated by using a standardized design as they do in France.

That step would put a significant dent in our carbon output, it would not solve the problem of course, we'd still have NG plants, and transportation, but it would be a nice dent.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2487 on: May 12, 2020, 11:33:45 AM »
How much of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions are associated with electricity generation?
In 2018, emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) by the U.S. electric power sector were 1,763 million metric tons (MMmt), or about 33% of total U.S. energy-related CO2 emissions of 5,269 (MMmt).1
CO2 emissions by U.S. electric power sector by source, 2018
SourceMillion metric tonsShare of sector total
Coal 1,15065%
Natural gas   58133%
Petroleum    21  1%
Other2    11<1%
Total1,763 
Includes CO2 emissions from the combustion of miscellaneous waste materials made from fossil fuels and by some types of geothermal power generation.



Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2488 on: May 12, 2020, 11:44:12 AM »
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/energy-and-the-environment/where-greenhouse-gases-come-from.php

Coal is responsible for about a quarter of our CO2 production (US).  Coal also produces quite a bit of regular pollution which is bad, and of course coal mining and disposal of ash is a problem as well.  

Coal is the dominant CO2 emissions source related to electricity generation

In 2018, the electric power sector accounted for about 38% of U.S. primary energy consumption and produced 33% of total U.S. energy-related CO2 emissions. Coal accounted for 65% and natural gas for 33% of electric power sector CO2 emissions. Emissions from burning petroleum fuels and non-biomass waste (mainly plastics) in waste-to-energy power plants and emissions from some types of geothermal power plants accounted for about 2% of power sector CO2 emissions.

So, PART of a reasonable PLAN would be to shutter our coal plants in X years.  Now the question is HOW, and at what expense.  Many will be closed anyway of course, but many will still be operation in say 2030.  While wind/solar can help chisel at this, we really would need more nuclear to replace this chunk is say a decade.

We all know the issues with nuclear, but the simple fact is we KNOW how many megawatts they can produce at what cost.  There are two power reactors nearing end of construction now, and that's it.

If we really were serious about taking out a chunk of CO2, folks would be pushing this.  But, they aren't, because it doesn't match with the PC message of "wind and solar".

I hope all these new wind turbines have costs built in for disposal when they reach their 20 year expected lives.

MichiFan87

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2489 on: May 12, 2020, 11:52:55 AM »
Wind and solar are cost-effective. Nuclear is not. It's that simple.

Coal will be dead in some (and potentially most) states by 2030, anyway. It's already gone in a few including California.

As for a carbon price/tax, it's a reasonable idea but unlikely to be implemented at a national level.
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2490 on: May 12, 2020, 11:54:42 AM »
I doubt the coal and natural gas plants had costs built in for disposal when they are abandoned.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #2491 on: May 12, 2020, 11:55:16 AM »
It'd most likely decimate the boating, RV, and general "recreational driving" industries.
I don't know about "decimate". As with anything, if you raise the cost of something you'll get less of it. 

Boating and recreational driving are already a "luxury", and so the question will be how much people are willing to sacrifice for their recreation. As Badge suggests, I think people who like boating will always like boating, and they'll do what they need to make sure they can still do it.

For RV, part of it is a lifestyle choice, and part of it is a cost comparison of traveling in other ways--flying or driving and staying in hotels, for example. If you had a carbon tax, the cost of air travel would certainly rise. Hotels may rise moderately because obviously their electricity / AC / heating bills for a hotel may rise due to the portion of their power that is carbon-based. So while travel by RV will be more expensive, other forms of travel would likewise be more expensive. Where the final tally ends up may result in a reduction in RV travel, but I doubt "decimate" would be the result. 

 

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