header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: The Hot Seats

 (Read 18236 times)

LittlePig

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2017, 11:58:02 PM »
Fry was 15-2-1 against Wisconsin. 12-8 against Minnie. 16-4 against ISU.

For Kirk, it's 7-8, 11-6 and 9-9, respectively.
But for what it is worth

Fry was 4-11-1 against Mich
Ferentz is 7-5 against Mich

Fry was 2-3 vs PSU
Ferentz is 8-6 against PSU

Fry is still the better coach, but Ferentz's sucess against teams like Michigan and Penn st is what keeps Ferentz close in the discussion.

Fry was more likely to beat teams that were worse than Iowa, and more likely to lose to teams considered better, except when Fry coachex against Minnesota, for some reason.

Ferentz has a style that keeps all games close, regardless of the opponent,  so he loses to worse teams more often and beats better teams more often then you would expect.

MarqHusker

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 5507
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2017, 07:34:33 AM »
Isn't this also an example of fun with end points?   (For Fry v Ferentz?)

That's peak Penn State vs Fry and less than peak PSU vs Ferentz.
Michigan may not be peak vs Fry, but they are a helluva lot better than Mich during Ferentz tenure.


847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25238
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2017, 10:17:48 AM »
Isn't this also an example of fun with end points?   (For Fry v Ferentz?)

That's peak Penn State vs Fry and less than peak PSU vs Ferentz.
Michigan may not be peak vs Fry, but they are a helluva lot better than Mich during Ferentz tenure.


This is what I was thinking.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2017, 10:43:16 AM »
Isn't this also an example of fun with end points?   (For Fry v Ferentz?)

That's peak Penn State vs Fry and less than peak PSU vs Ferentz.
Michigan may not be peak vs Fry, but they are a helluva lot better than Mich during Ferentz tenure.
I think it is a little of each.  Ferentz' seven wins over Michigan do include some wins over less-than-great Michigan teams but he didn't play Michigan's 3-9 squad and has a few wins over some pretty good Michigan teams as well.  Records of Michigan teams that Ferentz' Iowa squads defeated:
  • 11-2 (2011)
  • 10-3 (2016, 2003, 2002)
  • 7-6 (2013, 2010)
  • 5-7 (2009)
So yes, Fry got the benefit of playing ~.500 Michigan squads that his teams defeated in 2009, 2010, and 2013 but he also has four wins over double-digit winning Michigan teams.  

FWIW:
Fry's four wins over Michigan came against teams that went:
  • 10-1-1 (1985)
  • 9-3 (1990, 1981)
  • 6-6 (1984)

LetsGoPeay

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • Go Hoosiers!
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2017, 06:55:27 PM »
For IU it’s either Bill Lynch or Gerry DiNardo. 

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14342
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2017, 08:15:04 PM »
I think it is a little of each.  Ferentz' seven wins over Michigan do include some wins over less-than-great Michigan teams but he didn't play Michigan's 3-9 squad and has a few wins over some pretty good Michigan teams as well.  Records of Michigan teams that Ferentz' Iowa squads defeated:
  • 11-2 (2011)
  • 10-3 (2003)

how the F did that 2003 Michigan team lose 3 games? Man he really earned that nickname- LLLoyd.

Chris Perry was a freaking animal that year, probably the last truly elite RB that Michigan has had. I loved Mike Hart- GREAT player- but he didn't have that kind of size/power breakaway speed combo. There was a reason that Perry was a 1st round pick and Hart a 6th round pick. One dude was 6'1, 230 running a 4.5 flat- the other was 5'9, 190 running probably a 4.8 lol.

Then they had Braylon who was 1st team All-B1G that year, Avant who was 2nd team All-B1G that year, and Breaston who won the Freshman of the Year award that year. Also had a senior John Navarre who started a bunch of games the previous 3 years and a veteran OL with LT Tony Pape who was 1st team All-B1G that year and a senior David Baas at center who was a 1st team All-American that year.

That was a let-down year. No way they should've lost to Iowa and Oregon. That Oregon loss was especially bad when you look at how Oregon finished and how they got blown out by a lot of teams that year.

LittlePig

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1367
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2017, 09:09:08 PM »
I think it is a little of each.  Ferentz' seven wins over Michigan do include some wins over less-than-great Michigan teams but he didn't play Michigan's 3-9 squad and has a few wins over some pretty good Michigan teams as well.  Records of Michigan teams that Ferentz' Iowa squads defeated:
  • 11-2 (2011)
  • 10-3 (2016, 2003, 2002)
  • 7-6 (2013, 2010)
  • 5-7 (2009)
So yes, Fry got the benefit of playing ~.500 Michigan squads that his teams defeated in 2009, 2010, and 2013 but he also has four wins over double-digit winning Michigan teams.  

FWIW:
Fry's four wins over Michigan came against teams that went:
  • 10-1-1 (1985)
  • 9-3 (1990, 1981)
  • 6-6 (1984)

Interesting that 1981, 1985 and 1990 were the 3 years that Fry won the big ten and went to the Rose Bowl.   In those same years Iowa did not play OSU in 1981 and Iowa lost to OSU in 1985 and 1990.
 So I guess the key to Fry wining the Big Ten was beating Mich but not OSU.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25238
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2017, 07:57:53 AM »
Interesting that 1981, 1985 and 1990 were the 3 years that Fry won the big ten and went to the Rose Bowl.   In those same years Iowa did not play OSU in 1981 and Iowa lost to OSU in 1985 and 1990.
So I guess the key to Fry wining the Big Ten was beating Mich but not OSU.
And winning all of the games he should have won.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

CatsbyAZ

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2785
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2017, 09:30:27 AM »
Two days ago LSU's substandard AD hosted a sit-down with Ed Orgeron and his coordinators to talk things out. In the middle of the season, mind you.

From B.R: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2736836-lsu-ad-joe-alleva-meets-with-ed-orgeron-coordinators-after-tigers-struggles

"'''Whether or not the meetings produce any noticeable differences in the coming weeks, LSU has painted itself into a corner with Orgeron—at least for the next few years.
Yahoo Sports' reported the school would owe Orgeron about $9 million if it fired him this season "without cause." And that would be on top of the $3 million LSU already paid him for 2017. Firing Orgeron in 2018 would cost a total of $8.5 million—his buyout as well as his salary.
That's a lot of money for a school to pay somebody not to coach, especially for LSU given it's budgetary problems.
Things could get even more bleak, considering LSU's schedule. The Tigers play No. 21 Florida, No. 12 Auburn and No. 1 Alabama over the next month. It's possible LSU could miss a bowl game for the first time since 1999.
Hiring Orgeron, who went 10-25 in three years at Ole Miss, is looking like a mistake by LSU. The bigger misstep for the Tigers, though, may be giving him a contract with such a massive buyout."''

That last sentence makes the point I've screamed about all offseason whenever the topic of buyouts comes up. Why did this particular AD offer such a massive buyout to a coach nobody else wanted? LSU had the leverage in offering Orgeron a more responsible buyout and still conducted contract bidding as though Orgeron was the one to lose out on. And why do school presidents allow ADs to risk such high buyouts? And beyond university presidents, why do state level Board of Regents approve the financing of risky coaching hires and premature contract extensions?

There will come a day sooner rather than later when BoRs and school presidents will stop rubberstamping coaching paperwork sent from the AD's office. It will start soon enough with questioning contract extensions - why? Note the mentioning of LSU's "budgetary problems."

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25238
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2017, 09:35:34 AM »
If anyone needs to be fired, it's Aleva. He seems like an arrogant ass, and he clearly doesn't know how to manage a football program. The Miles fiasco would have been the final straw if I was the school president. That was so damn poorly handled. I could see if Miles was an asshole. He wasn't. Far from it.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Brutus Buckeye

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 11239
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2017, 09:40:42 AM »
Interesting that 1981, 1985 and 1990 were the 3 years that Fry won the big ten and went to the Rose Bowl.   In those same years Iowa did not play OSU in 1981 and Iowa lost to OSU in 1985 and 1990.
 So I guess the key to Fry wining the Big Ten was beating Mich but not OSU.
All three of Northwestern's modern Big Ten Titles happened during years that they didn't play OSU, but beat Michigan. 1995, 96 and 2000
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 09:42:59 AM by Brutus Buckeye »
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2017, 10:32:02 AM »
Interesting that 1981, 1985 and 1990 were the 3 years that Fry won the big ten and went to the Rose Bowl.   In those same years Iowa did not play OSU in 1981 and Iowa lost to OSU in 1985 and 1990.
 So I guess the key to Fry wining the Big Ten was beating Mich but not OSU.
Not playing Iowa in 1981/1982 probably cost Ohio State two RoseBowl appearances.  
1981:  
In 1981 the Conference adopted a nine-game full round-robin schedule for all teams except Iowa and Ohio State.  The Hawkeyes (lost to MN and ILL) and Buckeyes (lost to MN and UW) tied for first at 6-2 ahead of a three-way tie for 3/4/5 between M, ILL, and UW at 6-3.  Iowa won the tiebreaker on the "longest loser rule" because they hadn't been to the Rosebowl (or any other bowl) since the 1950's.  
1982:
In 1982 Ohio State and Iowa were, again, the only two conference teams not to play each other.  Michigan won the conference at 8-1 (lost to Ohio State).  Ohio State finished a half game back at 7-1 while Iowa was a game behind Ohio State at 6-2.  Had Ohio State played and beaten the Hawkeyes then the Buckeyes would have finished tied with Michigan and won the tie based on their H2H win.  
In 1983 and 1984 all 10 BigTen teams played nine games and Illinois became the answer to a trivia question.  Illinois went 9-0 in 1983 thus becoming the only team in the history of the conference to beat every other team in the conference.  I've always thought 1983 was interesting just because:
  • 9-0 Illinois beat everybody.  
  • 8-1 Michigan beat everybody except Illinois.  
  • 7-2 Iowa beat everybody except Illinois and Michigan.  
  • 6-3 Ohio State beat everybody except Illinois, Michigan, and Iowa.  
  • 5-4 Wisconsin beat everybody except Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, and Ohio State.  

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25238
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2017, 10:39:27 AM »
Those were the dark ages of the Big Ten. Illinois that year lost to a mediocre Mizzou team and got absolutely smoked by a mediocre UCLA team in the Rose Bowl.

Yuck.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

NickSmith4Three

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
  • Liked:
Re: The Hot Seats
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2017, 10:58:44 AM »
Those were the dark ages of the Big Ten. Illinois that year lost to a mediocre Mizzou team and got absolutely smoked by a mediocre UCLA team in the Rose Bowl.

Yuck.


It was because Illinois was partying too hard at the Playboy mansion before the Rose Bowl.  (Long rumor that has been pretty much debunked)

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.