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Topic: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME

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medinabuckeye1

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The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« on: December 03, 2019, 05:31:45 PM »
Michigan fans always like to point out that they hold a lead in the overall series and they do, 58-51-6.  Ohio State fans like me will always counter that Michigan's lead was built up when they went 13-0-2 in the first 15 games over 22 years from 1897-1918.  Additionally, after three tOSU wins in three years from 1919-1921 the Wolverines took over again and won six straight from 1922-1927.  After the 1927 game Michigan's record stood at 19-3-2.  

Then the rivalry entered a remarkable 76 year period.  From 1928-2003 neither team ever won more than four in a row.  

Ohio State's domination ever since John Cooper was fired has almost completely dug the Buckeyes out of the 3-19-2 hole that they started out in.  Michigan's lead is now down to seven games and Ohio State leads over any current time-period of 112 years or less.  
Hester Ford, born August 15, 1905
Iris Westman, born August 28, 1905
Irene Dutton, born July 16, 1906
Minnie Whicker, born July 24, 1906
Thelma Sutcliffe, born October 1, 1906
Louise Schaaf, born October 16, 1906

These are the only six living Americans in whose lifetimes The Team Up North has a winning record against The Ohio State University. They were born prior to Michigan's 6-0 win on October 20, 1906.


The series:

  • Ohio State leads by 14 games, 16-2 since John Cooper was fired (2001-2019)
  • Ohio State leads by 8 games, 18-10-1 since Bo Schembechler retired (1990-2019)
  • Ohio State leads by 6 games, 18-12-1 since Earle Bruce was fired (1988-2019)
  • Ohio State leads by 7 games, 23-16-1 since Woody was fired (1979-2019)
  • Ohio State leads by 6 games, 27-21-2 since Bo Schembechler was hired (1969-2019)
  • Ohio State leads by 12 games, 39-27-2 since Woody was hired (1951-2019)
  • Ohio State leads by 7 games, 39-32-3 since WWII ended (1945-2019)
  • Ohio State leads by 5 games, 51-46-4 in conference games (1918-2019)
  • The teams are even, 51-51-5 since Michigan dropped out of the conference (1907-2019)


This is the 10 year rolling winning percentage.  Ohio State leads 8-1 from 2010-2019.  The 2010 game officially never happened so next year this will move to either 9-1 or 8-2.  Then the 2021 game will replace Ohio State's 2011 loss so this will move to either 10-0, 9-1, or 8-2.  It would take a five game winning streak for Michigan to get this to even.  
This is the 25 year rolling winning percentage.  Ohio State leads 17-7 from 1995-2019.  The next three games, five of the next six, and seven of the next nine will replace Michigan wins.  Thus, if Michigan goes 7-2 over the next nine games their 25 year rolling winning percentage will remain at .292.  It would take a 13 game winning streak for Michigan to get above .500.  
This is the 50 year rolling winning percentage.  Ohio State leads 27-20-2 from 1970-2019.  If Michigan started a winning streak next year, this would change as follows:

  • Michigan's hypothetical 2020 win would replace their 1970 loss and trim Ohio State's lead to 26-21-2
  • Michigan's hypothetical 2021 win would replace their 1971 win and leave Ohio State's lead at 26-21-2
  • Michigan's hypothetical 2022 win would replace their 1972 loss and trim Ohio State's lead to 25-22-2
  • Michigan's hypothetical 2023 win would replace the 1973 tie and trim Ohio State's lead to 25-23-1
  • Michigan's hypothetical 2024 win would replace their 1974 loss and even the 50 year rolling at 24-24-1


This is the 100 year rolling winning percentage.  Ohio State leads 50-45-4 from 1920-2019.  If Michigan started a winning streak next year, this would change as follows:
  • Michigan's hypothetical 2020 win would replace their 1920 loss and trim Ohio State's lead to 49-46-4
  • Michigan's hypothetical 2021 win would replace their 1921 loss and trim Ohio State's lead to 48-47-4
  • Michigan's hypothetical wins in 2022-2027 would replace their wins in 1922-1927 and leave Ohio State's lead at 48-47-4
  • Michigan's hypothetical ninth straight win in 2028 would replace their loss in 1928 and give Michigan a 48-47-4 lead.  


847badgerfan

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2019, 07:47:22 PM »
I was hoping for an OSU/UM thread during B1G championship week. Really, I was.



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FearlessF

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2019, 08:10:57 PM »
I was expecting your post saying, this thread sucks
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MarqHusker

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2019, 08:40:39 PM »
Why  not just pin up The Navel Gazing Thread, aka The Game.

847badgerfan

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2019, 06:45:45 AM »
I was expecting your post saying, this thread sucks
Well, it does. Sorry to disappoint.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2019, 08:01:00 PM »
Sort of like Florida-Tennessee.  UF has a 29-20 edge, but UTK won the first 10 meetings.  So it's really 29-10, and since division play (1992), it's 22-6, Gators.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2019, 10:41:45 PM »
Sort of like Florida-Tennessee.  UF has a 29-20 edge, but UTK won the first 10 meetings.  So it's really 29-10, and since division play (1992), it's 22-6, Gators.
Out of curiosity, why are there so few meetings? 

I was under the impression that the Gators and Volunteers had been conference mates in the SEC and predecessors for many, many years so it surprised me to see only 49 contests. 

MarqHusker

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2019, 10:48:45 PM »
I don't understand why one dismisses so many games out of hand.  They were played, weren't they?   I understand that context matters and timelining is tricky stuff, but if the first 10 were 5-5 you wouldn't make any distinction. 

I mean, does Kstate waive away 80 years of results pre Snyder?  Your history is your history. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 11:04:30 PM »
I don't understand why one dismisses so many games out of hand.  They were played, weren't they?  I understand that context matters and timelining is tricky stuff, but if the first 10 were 5-5 you wouldn't make any distinction.

I mean, does Kstate waive away 80 years of results pre Snyder?  Your history is your history.
Like you said, context matters. Michigan has a better record if you are 112 years old. For everybody else Ohio State is the better team. 


Brutus Buckeye

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2019, 11:08:06 PM »
Yeah, I count 'em.

Michigan was a National power house while OSU was basically a D3 OAC team for the 1897-1912 games. So zeroing in on the Big Ten era makes some sense in certain cases.

Of course I also count the 2010 game.
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 11:11:45 PM »
What's the record since 1934, when THE GAME was moved to the end of the season, launching the "Gold Pants" era?

1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Cincydawg

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2019, 08:53:27 AM »
Out of curiosity, why are there so few meetings?

I was under the impression that the Gators and Volunteers had been conference mates in the SEC and predecessors for many, many years so it surprised me to see only 49 contests.
SEC teams "back in the day" had some weird scheduling.  Georgia Tech would not play either Mississippi team in their state.  And they didn't.  Tech NEVER played MSU as SEC teams.  

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college-football/the-odd-history-between-tech-mississippi-state-ole-miss/zUwORXYzjdL2W1z4HmSsPJ/

Teams only played 6 conference games, and sometimes a game with a nonconference opponent would be counted as a conference game, and vice versa.  

For many years, the SEC allowed schools to arrange their own conference schedules, which sometimes resulted in unusual or imbalanced conference slates that varied according to traditional opponents and the university's athletic budget. The University of Tennessee is located in Knoxville and the University of Florida is in Gainesville, which are approximately 550 miles apart. Between the cost and time required to travel by train and the fact that the SEC did not require members to play each other very often, the two schools met on the gridiron only thirteen times between 1916 and 1969. Of those thirteen games, seven were played in Knoxville, two were played in Gainesville, and four were played in other locations in Florida.


CWSooner

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2019, 12:14:52 PM »
SEC teams "back in the day" had some weird scheduling.  Georgia Tech would not play either Mississippi team in their state.  And they didn't.  Tech NEVER played MSU as SEC teams. 

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college-football/the-odd-history-between-tech-mississippi-state-ole-miss/zUwORXYzjdL2W1z4HmSsPJ/

Teams only played 6 conference games, and sometimes a game with a nonconference opponent would be counted as a conference game, and vice versa. 

For many years, the SEC allowed schools to arrange their own conference schedules, which sometimes resulted in unusual or imbalanced conference slates that varied according to traditional opponents and the university's athletic budget. The University of Tennessee is located in Knoxville and the University of Florida is in Gainesville, which are approximately 550 miles apart. Between the cost and time required to travel by train and the fact that the SEC did not require members to play each other very often, the two schools met on the gridiron only thirteen times between 1916 and 1969. Of those thirteen games, seven were played in Knoxville, two were played in Gainesville, and four were played in other locations in Florida.
Sounds like the very early days of the Southwest Conference, when Oklahoma was a member.  OU was co-champ of the SWC in 1915 with a 3-0 record, tied with Baylor, also 3-0.  Apparently there was no conference champ named in 1918.  OU was 2-0 and Texas was 4-0 in conference play.
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DevilFroggy

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Re: The greatest rivalry in sports, THE GAME
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2019, 12:27:10 AM »
In the old Border conference, where ASU and uofa belonged before they moved to the WAC in 1956, also had weird scheduling. Texas Tech was also a member about the same time the Arizona schools where yet ASU and TTU never once played each other as Border conference members but TTU and uofa played annually as members.
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