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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6692 on: July 12, 2020, 06:11:56 PM »
Nobody should expect anyone to be a blind patriot 

in fact what makes this country great is the fact most of us arent blind patriots


criticism of ones country is not bad unless your motive is not to improve your country but rather to tear it down


showing respect for our flag is not bad either


They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6693 on: July 12, 2020, 06:14:22 PM »
If you think that opening the economy is solely about getting Trump re-elected then you are letting your hatred for him override good common sense.

There are many valid reasons to open the economy. Millions of Americans are asking for it to happen and helping Trump’s re-election is pretty far down on their list of reasons why.

Asking questions like “how many dead children are acceptable” is gaslighting the discussion. We don’t need that. Someone could ask “How many livelihoods do we destroy to save the lives of 80 somethings who have one foot in the grave anyway?” That question is just as overly dramatic and overly simplified as the other one.

Everybody knows there is a risk associated with opening up schools.  The consequences could be dire for some. No one is denying that.  People can make their own individual choices regarding that. Parents can make other arrangements for their children. Teachers can take sick leave, retire, quit, find other employment, etc.

The situation sucks. There isn’t a right answer.
very well put Kris
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6694 on: July 12, 2020, 07:42:42 PM »
I prefer to live in the U.S. because everyone I know and love lives here, too. 
But there are dozens of other countries that have the good of America and less of the bad.  We all know this. 

I'd probably be perfectly fine living in any country that isn't a dictatorship, doesn't have a theocratic government, and isn't so impoverished that I can't get consistent clean water and electricity.  I think any of us would live perfectly enjoyable lives in such countries. 

So yeah, that's definitely dozens of countries.  I'd probably lean towards a warmer climate with a coast.  How about you guys?
We don't "all know this."
Pick a better country.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6695 on: July 12, 2020, 07:53:49 PM »
I think a really strong tax credit for living in integrated neighborhoods could be worth exploring. The clearest issue with poverty and race is that black people have a very difficult time moving up the social class over time because white people leave when they get there. 

CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6696 on: July 12, 2020, 07:55:24 PM »
Love of country is not blindness to its flaws.  I dearly love my wife, but I do not think that she is without flaws.  I imagine (and hope) that she feels the same about me.

Love of country means you care about it in a way that goes beyond liking where you live and who your friends are.  It means that you are willing to work for its betterment, that when push comes to shove, you favor its welfare rather than its enemies' welfare.

It means you would be willing to give something of yourself, something that might be difficult, disgusting, or even dangerous.

It means that you give your fellow-countrymen the benefit of the doubt.  You can't love America and hate or despise half of the people who live here.

Love of country is literally patriotism.  Or maybe I should put it the other way, patriotism is love of country.

There has never been a country, or even a club, in the world that was without flaws.  We are wrong if we believe that our country is uniquely flawed, or even more flawed than most.  But it is, of course, flawed, like all human creations.

That shouldn't preclude us loving it.

If we love our country, we should gladly, willingly, voluntarily sacrifice our comfort just a bit by wearing masks and social-distancing.  For the benefit of our fellow-countrymen, even if we don't think it's necessary for ourselves.

JMODMIR
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CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6697 on: July 12, 2020, 07:57:27 PM »
I think a really strong tax credit for living in integrated neighborhoods could be worth exploring. The clearest issue with poverty and race is that black people have a very difficult time moving up the social class over time because white people leave when they get there.
There would be many knotty problems with that, beyond the whole social-engineering problem.  Who counts as black?  Who counts as white?  How do Asians count?
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MaximumSam

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6698 on: July 12, 2020, 08:00:17 PM »
There would be many knotty problems with that, beyond the whole social-engineering problem.  Who counts as black?  Who counts as white?  How do Asians count?
Say a neighborhood has over 20 percent black people in it. Everyone in the neighborhood gets 10 grand. Don't have to worry about whites and Asians that way. Would have to figure a system to decide who is black. But the Confederates did it so I think we can.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6699 on: July 12, 2020, 08:01:28 PM »
what about standing and singing the national anthem does that bother you OAM
None of it bothers me.  Sing away.  That's about as far from the pledge as you can get, though.  One is traditionally sang before optional sporting events, commemorating the battle to keep our new country and the other is a daily indoctrination at required schooling as an oath, sprinkled with words they don't understand.

No one should be taking an oath before they understand what the oath is actually saying.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6700 on: July 12, 2020, 08:06:15 PM »
Love of country is not blindness to its flaws.  I dearly love my wife, but I do not think that she is without flaws.  I imagine (and hope) that she feels the same about me.

Love of country means you care about it in a way that goes beyond liking where you live and who your friends are.  It means that you are willing to work for its betterment, that when push comes to shove, you favor its welfare rather than its enemies' welfare.

It means you would be willing to give something of yourself, something that might be difficult, disgusting, or even dangerous.

It means that you give your fellow-countrymen the benefit of the doubt.  You can't love America and hate or despise half of the people who live here.

Love of country is literally patriotism.  Or maybe I should put it the other way, patriotism is love of country.

There has never been a country, or even a club, in the world that was without flaws.  We are wrong if we believe that our country is uniquely flawed, or even more flawed than most.  But it is, of course, flawed, like all human creations.

That shouldn't preclude us loving it.

If we love our country, we should gladly, willingly, voluntarily sacrifice our comfort just a bit by wearing masks and social-distancing.  For the benefit of our fellow-countrymen, even if we don't think it's necessary for ourselves.

JMODMIR
I don't think any of that is disagreeable, except giving fellow countrymen the benefit of the doubt.  A random American is no more honest or trustworthy than the average Mexican or Norwegian or Indonesian.  I give evidence the benefit of the doubt, because it removes doubt.

Anyway, the possible problem with your post is something like the war in Iraq.  We attacked a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.  That was objectively wrong.  I'm no less patriotic for saying it's wrong and for wanted it to stop immediately.  The person who figures hey, we're there, you're only patriotic if you cheer for us to "win" - whatever that meant - is a baffoon.  I'm not saying you've suggested that.  

Pretending that your country is more ethical or moral that its actions suggest is not patriotism.  It's simply silliness.  Do you disagree?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6701 on: July 12, 2020, 08:07:22 PM »
Nobody should expect anyone to be a blind patriot

in fact what makes this country great is the fact most of us arent blind patriots


criticism of ones country is not bad unless your motive is not to improve your country but rather to tear it down


showing respect for our flag is not bad either

What if your motive is improvement, and you focus on actions over symbols?  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6702 on: July 12, 2020, 08:09:44 PM »
If you think that opening the economy is solely about getting Trump re-elected then you are letting your hatred for him override good common sense.

There are many valid reasons to open the economy. Millions of Americans are asking for it to happen and helping Trump’s re-election is pretty far down on their list of reasons why.
Right, but you're concerning yourself with what millions of people want (correct me if I'm wrong) and my post concerned itself with what Trump wants and what's motivating him, personally.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6703 on: July 12, 2020, 08:10:57 PM »
What if your motive is improvement, and you focus on actions over symbols? 
you need to give me an example cause Im not sure what you mean by symbols
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6704 on: July 12, 2020, 08:20:16 PM »
Right, but you're concerning yourself with what millions of people want (correct me if I'm wrong) and my post concerned itself with what Trump wants and what's motivating him, personally.
the point being made is that the only thing that matters is whats best for the country not what you think is in someones mind

if you cant get Trump out of your head which is where he wants to be youre gonna be a very sad person the next four years
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #6705 on: July 12, 2020, 08:35:37 PM »
We don't "all know this."
Pick a better country.
Ok, I'll bite.

What standard shall we use?  I'll just pick some.

Happiness?  USA ranks 19th.
Per Capita median income?  USA ranks 6th
Population incarcerated?  USA is far and away #1
Safety?  USA ranked 128th
Freedom of the press?  USA ranked 45th
Life Expectancy?  USA ranked 46th
Human Freedom Index (This one by the Heritage foundation):  USA ranked 17th
Quality of life:  USA ranked 15th
Pollution index:  USA ranked 22
Traffic Commute time:  USA ranked 32
Property price to income ratio:  USA ranked 3
Cost of Living Index:  USA ranked 67
Health Care Index:  USA ranked 30

I live here, I like it here, but I am far from certain that this is the best country.

 

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