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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1708 on: April 12, 2020, 01:28:54 PM »
When a person dies, there will be a report on "Cause of Death", a death certificate.  If it lists COVID-19, it would be reported.



I'm sure some folks die and COVID is not reported, just as some may die "normally" and be positive for COVID but would have died anyway.  Of the people who die in a day, I'd imagine a small percentage were tested for COVID.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1709 on: April 12, 2020, 01:37:01 PM »
By "not being counted" is it possible that what was meant is that they're not being counted as a unique line item? 

As in, tracking nursing home deaths as a distinct subset within overall COVID deaths would be valuable information, but they're just being lumped in with the rest? 

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1710 on: April 12, 2020, 01:38:29 PM »
I see stats on age at time of COVID death, which is possibly as critical to understand.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1711 on: April 12, 2020, 01:58:48 PM »
I'm not sure.  
This could simply be a counter-measure of what had been posted here - of people who may have died of other causes being labeled Covid-19....nursing home deaths are of people who aren't expected to live a long time, and so if they happened to die of Covid-19, why count it, as they were already going to die next Tuesday anyway.
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I have no idea, it's all a mess.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1712 on: April 12, 2020, 02:14:32 PM »
My GUESS is if an elderly not healthy person gets the flu, the cause of death if they die is probably pneumonia, and that could be the case for COVID as well.  I doubt doctors order tests on patients who are not doing well, the test result doesn't change the course of treatment.  So, no doubt some people die and are COVID positive and we don't know it, and some die of whatever and happened to be COVID positive and get counted because they were tested.

bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1713 on: April 12, 2020, 02:25:26 PM »
This sounds odd to me.  Why would they not be reported?
Reading the story, it looks like the Federal government isn't keeping an "official tally" and multiple states are not providing data on nursing home deaths (26 not providing info on the deaths, 14 not providing info on cases in nursing homes). 

(I know I read some states stopped testing the dead, as with a backup, it just wasn't prudent, but I think that was more with in-home deaths)

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1714 on: April 12, 2020, 03:07:21 PM »
stupid Badgers

now watching Iowa at Nebraska 2017

I understand Husker fans will watch anything RED, but a 56-14 blowout???
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1716 on: April 12, 2020, 08:24:23 PM »
Bullshit disband that health dept they are dangerous jack asses inflating any numbers for what ever reason is the shit of Robber barons.Not someone interested in the wellfare of the Public
“Did I hear God call me an idiot? ”― William P. Young

bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1717 on: April 12, 2020, 09:27:50 PM »
MN Senator Dr Scott Jensen on being told by MN Dept of Health to classify non-CV deaths as CV deaths - YouTube
Seems like a lot of storm and fury, but the value is in digging in. While we must be skeptical of all things, we must also be skeptical of the sensational, and a politician announcing something untoward is certianly that.

In terms of good moves, the state rep in question posted the document in question. It's a useful document because it illustrates that COD is often listed as a multi-tiered thing. So it says this is the direct thing that kills someone, then lists pneumonia or COVID further down the line. 

In the case he's talking about, it's how one lists home deaths. It says if a person dies at home of a respiratory issue, and was exposed to someone who later tested positive for COVID, the COD should be listed "Acute respiratory illness" due to "Possible COVID."

Now, we can argue if it's right to list a possible COD on a death certificate. In truth, it shouldn't really matter unless that specific things being used as a political bludgeoning tool of sorts. But of course, this is coming from a politician seemingly with a taste for bludgeoning, and the pub he'll get for this is probably the most fame he'll ever acquire. I don't know how this factors into the larger numbers.

Simply put, that headline is a lie. And if the end game was to get more funding or something, it's missing the mark because the hospital treats no one in that case. 

Anyway, here's the most thesis of the instruction. We can argue if it's reasonable or not "In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1718 on: April 12, 2020, 10:09:19 PM »
Anyway, here's the most thesis of the instruction. We can argue if it's reasonable or not "In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible."
This seems prudent.
The doctor says they don't put pnemonia due to possible influenza, but are doing it with COVID-19.  
I think they should be putting what likely caused the pnemonia.  Maybe it's a bad idea, but it would make sense to me.  
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What if everyone was just honest and prudent?  There's no need to fabricate anything, no matter what side of the aisle.  It's wrong.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1719 on: April 13, 2020, 07:13:07 AM »
Ever notice how often some summary of a "thing" sounds ridiculous and absurd, and then you look into and discover it was taken out of context and what is being suggested is arguably reasonable and rational?

Huh.

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1720 on: April 13, 2020, 07:57:08 AM »
Has COVID peaked in the US?  I read somewhere that R naught was reduced from around 5 to 1.5 by "distancing".  I wouldn't trust either figure, but one is likely lower than the other.  Distancing and hand washing may be doing most of the trick here.  Can we reopen things soon and recommend to seniors they stay in for a while longer to the extent possible and let folks under 50 make their own judgments?

Restaurants could reopen with tables further apart.  Workers could have their T taken every day when they arrive.  Hospital workers could be tested often along with folks in elderly homes (workers).  Businesses might have staggered hours for being at work so folks are not bunched together while working from home.

Wash your hands, use good judgment on distancing, wear a mask if you start to feel at  all ill, get outside, avoid crowded areas, gyms might need to stay closed along with large public events.  Church maybe if everyone sits far apart.

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1721 on: April 13, 2020, 10:44:33 AM »
I'm guessing distancing, such as staying in your house is most effective

washing your hands is nice, but if you don't do it often enough or don't wash your cell phone or others things you hold in your hands it is flawed.
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