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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1736 on: April 13, 2020, 12:43:48 PM »
I don't see an IHME model for individual states.

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1737 on: April 13, 2020, 12:56:57 PM »
Yeah I think he IMHE model is predicting a total of 2.7K or so, and most of those will be coming over the next 2-3 weeks.  It's also possible we'll just continue under their forecasted trajectory.  Wouldn't that be nice?
Hard to believe we will go from 278 to 2700 in three weeks

I think that projection is a tad high
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1738 on: April 13, 2020, 01:00:34 PM »
I don't see an IHME model for individual states.
It's there. Just tab down at the top of the page, where it says "United States of America".

Georgia's peak death rate will be in 14 days, according to this model.
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1739 on: April 13, 2020, 01:07:01 PM »
Hard to believe we will go from 278 to 2700 in three weeks

I think that projection is a tad high

Well that's the nature of exponential growth.

But they're still applying exponential assumptions to something that might not actually be exponential.  Most major cities in Texas were already shutting down schools as of 3/13.  Social distancing orders, business shut-downs, and the like, started up over the following week.  So we're 3-4 weeks past the point when exposure was far more likely, than it was in later days.  If we're not seeing a large peak in hospitalizations right now, 3-4 weeks after exposure, then I'm not sure we'll see them at all.

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1740 on: April 13, 2020, 01:40:23 PM »
Got the state thing, thanks, just saw countries initially.  Epidemics ARE inherently exponential, it's just that the exponent can be less than one.  R-naught.

IF each person on average infects 2 more people, you have "exponential growth" , and if they infect 0.5 people, you have exponential decline.

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1741 on: April 13, 2020, 01:45:20 PM »
If your R0 is exactly 1 then it won't appear to be exponential. 

We really have no idea what a true R0 is for this thing yet.  We likely won't ever, but a year from now we'll have some reasonable estimates.

Anyway, I'm not certain the growth assumptions in this model are appropriate for Texas, and I'd be happy for the death toll to be significantly lower.

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1742 on: April 13, 2020, 01:56:11 PM »

That model for GA uses an assumption that nonessential businesses are NOT closed.  That is not correct.  Travel also has been curtailed significantly.

t R0 is an average. Let’s say the virus has an R0 of 2. This could mean that every single infected person passes the virus to two other people. It could also mean that one infected person is a “super-spreader” who infects 100 people, while 49 infected people infect no one. These two scenarios have radically different implications for what will happen during an outbreak.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1743 on: April 13, 2020, 02:05:35 PM »
I would note that hydrogen peroxide (3%) is pretty effective against pathogens, many of which are anaerobes.  It doesn't stink and it won't bleach a shirt or whatever (at least not right away).  It likely is less effective than soap against a virus.  You can even use it as mouthwash, though it tastes metallic.

Soap is preferred against viruses.  We might all find ourselves getting sick less often after this ...
My understanding is that's only true of certain virii, of which this is one. Soap dissolved the outer protein layer of the virus, rendering it completely unable to cause harm. However, there are other types of virii which aren't based upon this type of protein outer layer, and I believe soap is basically ineffective or minimally effective as it relates to those. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1744 on: April 13, 2020, 02:10:16 PM »
This is what I said on another forum last Thursday:

---

We often think R0 for a virus is an independent variable, i.e. that a specific virus will spread to X additional people from one infected person. And that R0 for any specific virus is some inherent trait to that virus.

R0 is a dependent variable. Some things that it is dependent on are inherent to the specific characteristics of the virus and the disease it causes (incubation period, ability to transmit in the absence of symptoms, etc). But others are dependent on people--how much we social distance. Population density. Whether we're using mass transit or our own vehicles. What precautions (masks/handwashing/disinfecting surfaces) we're taking. Etc.

If R0 of COVID-19 was assumed to be 3 in normal conditions, and I was exposed to it the last time I left the house (last Friday), I'm now on my 6th day since leaving the house. The median incubation period is 5.1 days. In the interim the only person I've interacted with has been my wife, so my MAXIMUM R0 is 1. Under normal circumstances, if I'd gone into the office, if I'd done my normal levels of shopping/errands, if I'd been going to meet customers [and shaking hands], etc, it would be completely different.

This appears to be a highly transmissible virus. However, it's only transmissible if we give it a chance to find new uninfected hosts. If we don't, then it may be highly transmissible but won't be highly transmitted...

From XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2287/



Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1745 on: April 13, 2020, 02:11:11 PM »
That could be.  One advantage of soap and running water is the simple washing effect to remove contaminant, if not denature them.  What the alcohol cleaner doesn't kill is still there.

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1746 on: April 13, 2020, 03:02:45 PM »
This is what I said on another forum last Thursday:


you visit other forums???? :smiley_confused1:
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1747 on: April 13, 2020, 03:23:26 PM »
Yeah for sure, R0 is measured, it's not solely dependent on the nature of the virus itself.

Regardless of what it would have been before measures were taken, and what it might currently be, it appears that the model still isn't correct, at least in the state of Texas.  Currently it says we should be using something like 2.7K ICU beds for COVID patients, and in reality right now it's more like 1.2K.   This SHOULD translate into fewer deaths, 1-2 weeks from now ,than the model is currently predicting.

Sure hope so, that would be some good news indeed.



 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1748 on: April 13, 2020, 03:25:32 PM »
you visit other forums???? :smiley_confused1:
Not for CFB, of course. 

FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #1749 on: April 13, 2020, 03:31:11 PM »
whew!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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