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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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GopherRock

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14462 on: August 02, 2021, 02:49:37 PM »
The better vehicular comparison is driving drunk. Most of the time you're going to get away with it. But when it goes bad, it really goes bad, and it's someone other than the perp that's scraping the other person's innards off the road.

longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14463 on: August 02, 2021, 03:02:58 PM »
The better vehicular comparison is driving drunk. Most of the time you're going to get away with it. But when it goes bad, it really goes bad, and it's someone other than the perp that's scraping the other person's innards off the road.
scraping innards?

really?
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

utee94

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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14465 on: August 02, 2021, 03:21:50 PM »
What irks me is that the vaccinated are being asked to wear masks to protect those who deliberately choose not to receive the vaccine, refuse to wear masks, and don't even think they need to be protected.

Getting the vaccinated to wear masks is IMHO marginally useful at reducing spread. Getting the unvaccinated to take the vaccine would be tremendously useful at reducing spread.

But... The unvaccinated aren't listening and won't listen to public health authorities. So they tell the vaccinated to mask up--because they know those people are more likely to actually listen and comply.

The bang for the buck comes from getting the unvaccinated to take the shot. But they aren't.

So I don't feel like I should wear a mask just to protect them. I'm vaccinated. Why do I need one?

Exactly.  If getting the vaccine isn't the trigger for not wearing a mask, then what is?


longhorn320

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14466 on: August 02, 2021, 03:26:18 PM »
Hey @Cincydawg , any indications from your wife's family about how they feel about this?

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/13/1015591406/french-people-rush-for-vaccines-after-macron-ties-a-new-health-pass-to-cafe-life


It will be interesting to see if the French really roll over like the article hints 

I suspect there will be a little stronger reaction
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14467 on: August 02, 2021, 03:32:08 PM »
Exactly.  If getting the vaccine isn't the trigger for not wearing a mask, then what is?


Maskers: "If it saves just one life, shouldn't we all wear masks?!"

Me: "No."

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14468 on: August 02, 2021, 03:36:14 PM »
I have not talked to them lately, so I don't know.  I know the father was upset about the last lockdown.  I suspect they are vaccinated so it may not be an issue for them.

The dad is American, from Wyoming, Ohio.  

Which is not near Wyoming the state, but is across the tracks from Reading, Ohio, and Lockland, Ohio, which once did have a lock.


Gigem

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14469 on: August 02, 2021, 04:47:25 PM »
States--like Oklahoma--that passed laws prohibiting schools, businesses, and government agencies from requiring their employees to get vaccinate should repeal those laws.  Or amend them to only apply until the vaccine is upgraded from "emergency" status.
Re "drastically reduced," I agree that 100% vaccination rate should mean that no masks should be needed.  I suppose there is some circumstance where masks would be needed, but I can't think of one.
I think most people understand that it's going to be with us.  The people who don't probably tend to be among the ranks of anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers.  If it's going to be with us for a long time, then we should be prepared to get vaccinated every year, just like we do with flu shots.
I don't get the car analogy at all, and I don't know if most fatal accidents happen at 40-50 mph.
The car analogy I like is running stop signs.  People who refuse to get vaccinated and refuse to wear masks are like people who run stop signs.  They aren't just endangering themselves, they are endangering others.  People do not have some fundamental right or "freedom" to run stop signs.
I vehemently oppose government mandates that force people to get vaccinated. Are we not a free country ?

It’s a shame that we even have to pass laws that prohibit this. 

Back to the car analogy…running stop signs endanger everybody. Not wearing your seatbelt only endangers yourself. Asking vaccinated people to wear masks to protect those who refuse to be vaccinated is not the right logic IMO. These people will never get vaccinated. 

just like people who refuse to wear their seatbelt for safety despite all the evidence to the contrary. They are the ones gambling with their life why should we have to pay ? 

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14470 on: August 02, 2021, 05:17:08 PM »
We do pay collectively when someone is hospitalized in an auto accident that would have been prevented had they worn a seatbelt.

And then there can be a cost to the family of course.

Over half of medical expenses in the US are born by government.

CWSooner

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14471 on: August 02, 2021, 06:11:02 PM »
There's a general thought that driving without a seatbelt endangers no one but yourself.  That is false.  Some years ago, Car and Driver (I think) did some "evasive driving" tests with and without seatbelts and the results were clear.  You are significantly less in control of your car in an emergency if you aren't belted in than if you are belted in.

About masks . . . .  I don't like to wear one.  But when I go into a place of business I put one on, even though I got vaccinated twice way back in February.  I don't know who's been vaccinated and who isn't (Oklahoma has a fully vaccinated rate of 49%), and I don't even want to get a mild case of it and bring it home to my wife, who got vaccinated at the same time I did but is immune-compromised.

I guess what I don't understand is the virulence and anger of the anti-masking sentiment.  (Not alluding to anyone here.)  Since 1900-ish, we've gone from a society that prided itself that prided rugged individualism to a society where the federal government tells us how many gallons of water our toilet tanks can hold, how much water our shower heads can flow, and how many miles per gallon our motor vehicles have to average.  A society where the federal government monitors our bank deposits to make sure that we aren't racketeers.  Where the federal government sets de facto racial and sex quotas on a plethora things from the composition private businesses' workforces to promotion rates in the armed forces.  All of this we accept without violent, without even angry responses.  Most of us accept it without a peep.

But now, during a pandemic that has killed far more Americans than it should have, refusing to wear masks is the hill upon which red-blooded patriots want to make their last stand against tyranny?  I don't get it.

And I really don't get it when the anti-maskers are very often also anti-vaxxers, who, if they would get themselves vaccinated, could make it so that neither they nor the rest of us would be having to worry about when and where it is necessary to wear masks.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14472 on: August 02, 2021, 06:26:38 PM »
But now, during a pandemic that has killed far more Americans than it should have, refusing to wear masks is the hill upon which red-blooded patriots want to make their last stand against tyranny?  I don't get it.

And I really don't get it when the anti-maskers are very often also anti-vaxxers, who, if they would get themselves vaccinated, could make it so that neither they nor the rest of us would be having to worry about when and where it is necessary to wear masks.
For me there's no "hill to die on" going on here. And BTW I am neither anti-vax nor anti-mask. I am vaccinated, and prior to the widespread availability of the vaccine, I both supported masking and wore one myself. I believe that at the time it was a one of the best ways to protect the vulnerable without frankly just locking everything down. 

And I still carry a mask in the car. If I walked up to a business and it had a sign on the front door saying "masks required", I'm not going to argue with them about "muh rights!"--I'm going to put on a mask. It's their business; their policy.

But for me, the situation has changed. COVID hasn't disappeared, but with widespread vaccine availability, the most vulnerable among us have FAR better protection than my silly little mask can offer, by getting the vaccine. I was mostly wearing a mask to protect the vulnerable, as I am not in a demographic likely to suffer significant harm from COVID. However, while I had slight concern about getting COVID myself before I was vaccinated, I now have very little concern that suffering an infection myself would be harmful. So those who were most vulnerable can protect themselves with the vaccine, and don't need me to wear a mask to protect them. And I've protected myself with the vaccine, so I don't need double protection of a mask IMHO. 

So the group with the most vulnerability are now the anti-vaxxers who also happen to be anti-maskers, and the powers that be are telling me that it's my duty to wear a mask to protect them, even though they've chosen not to get the vaccine. The very same people that chafed at the idea of wearing a mask, or social distancing, or doing anything whatsoever to stop the spread prior to the availability of the vaccine. 

So that's where I draw the line. I've done my part. It's not about tyranny, it's about anyone who wants protection having access to it, so that those who choose not to get it deserve none from me. 

Abba

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14473 on: August 02, 2021, 06:29:48 PM »
I'm not enjoying agreeing with a Purdue fan this often.

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14474 on: August 02, 2021, 06:32:01 PM »
I'm not enjoying agreeing with a Purdue fan this often.
Me neither.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #14475 on: August 02, 2021, 06:33:14 PM »
Some businesses around here are doing the mask thing. I really don't want to wear one, nor do I carry one, so if I see the sign, I just don't go in.

But, I'll be up in the Chicago area next week... and...
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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