Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

For me there's no "hill to die on" going on here. And BTW I am neither anti-vax nor anti-mask. I am vaccinated, and prior to the widespread availability of the vaccine, I both supported masking and wore one myself. I believe that at the time it was a one of the best ways to protect the vulnerable without frankly just locking everything down.

And I still carry a mask in the car. If I walked up to a business and it had a sign on the front door saying "masks required", I'm not going to argue with them about "muh rights!"--I'm going to put on a mask. It's their business; their policy.

But for me, the situation has changed. COVID hasn't disappeared, but with widespread vaccine availability, the most vulnerable among us have FAR better protection than my silly little mask can offer, by getting the vaccine. I was mostly wearing a mask to protect the vulnerable, as I am not in a demographic likely to suffer significant harm from COVID. However, while I had slight concern about getting COVID myself before I was vaccinated, I now have very little concern that suffering an infection myself would be harmful. So those who were most vulnerable can protect themselves with the vaccine, and don't need me to wear a mask to protect them. And I've protected myself with the vaccine, so I don't need double protection of a mask IMHO.

So the group with the most vulnerability are now the anti-vaxxers who also happen to be anti-maskers, and the powers that be are telling me that it's my duty to wear a mask to protect them, even though they've chosen not to get the vaccine. The very same people that chafed at the idea of wearing a mask, or social distancing, or doing anything whatsoever to stop the spread prior to the availability of the vaccine.

So that's where I draw the line. I've done my part. It's not about tyranny, it's about anyone who wants protection having access to it, so that those who choose not to get it deserve none from me.

This is better than I could say myself. 

btw I understand  your fear since your wife is immune compromised. But I know somebody immune compromised ( heart transplant) who got COVID after the vaccination and did fine. 

For me there's no "hill to die on" going on here. And BTW I am neither anti-vax nor anti-mask. I am vaccinated, and prior to the widespread availability of the vaccine, I both supported masking and wore one myself. I believe that at the time it was a one of the best ways to protect the vulnerable without frankly just locking everything down.

And I still carry a mask in the car. If I walked up to a business and it had a sign on the front door saying "masks required", I'm not going to argue with them about "muh rights!"--I'm going to put on a mask. It's their business; their policy.

But for me, the situation has changed. COVID hasn't disappeared, but with widespread vaccine availability, the most vulnerable among us have FAR better protection than my silly little mask can offer, by getting the vaccine. I was mostly wearing a mask to protect the vulnerable, as I am not in a demographic likely to suffer significant harm from COVID. However, while I had slight concern about getting COVID myself before I was vaccinated, I now have very little concern that suffering an infection myself would be harmful. So those who were most vulnerable can protect themselves with the vaccine, and don't need me to wear a mask to protect them. And I've protected myself with the vaccine, so I don't need double protection of a mask IMHO.

So the group with the most vulnerability are now the anti-vaxxers who also happen to be anti-maskers, and the powers that be are telling me that it's my duty to wear a mask to protect them, even though they've chosen not to get the vaccine. The very same people that chafed at the idea of wearing a mask, or social distancing, or doing anything whatsoever to stop the spread prior to the availability of the vaccine.

So that's where I draw the line. I've done my part. It's not about tyranny, it's about anyone who wants protection having access to it, so that those who choose not to get it deserve none from me.

Yup.  All of this, and exactly this.

The vaccine replaces the mask and does the same job a hell of a lot better.  Orders of magnitude better.  

Thanks Purdue guy- at least for a moment you have restored some small amount of hope that there is sanity.

The media have worked very hard to create the perception that there are two counter opposing groups. ( this is their pattern and winning formula) The “ anti-Vaccers” and the pro vaxxers.  Notice I did not put quotes around the second group because that’s not what the media calls them, in fact they don’t call them anything.

Like everything else they create a false narrative that basically says that if you’re not vaccinated, somehow you are less in formed or misinformed or not intelligent. Of course the reality is so far from that that’s almost silly. Many people who do not have a vaccination do not care if other people have it or, in fact, recommend it to certain people in their lives. They have just chosen not to get it for their very own reasons. Some of them have been told by their own doctors that they’ve already had Covid and the antibodies, and are fine,Or they have been told the real data on Covid-and since they are very young and very healthy they do not see it as a major risk to themselves or those around them. Or, they may have hesitancy or fear and that could be based on a variety of reasons. Much of that was developed during the election last year when current office holders strongly and vehemently denounced the vaccine.

And let’s not ignore the elephant in the room. The data says that the groups most likely to not get vaccinated fall into three categories: the young, African-Americans, and Hispanics.  I seriously doubt you could call any of those groups anti-VAX or anti mask. 

I don’t see the virulence you speak of- no more than those on a witch-hunt for the unvaccinated- the MSM.
Yes- People can Get pretty demonstrative and agitated when you cross the line of what they view as their rights or their freedom. Just look at the abortion issue.

Dr. Fauci and the CDC has pretty much created a great deal of miss trust and skepticism about anything that they say now and what I see are people, like myself who got vaccinated right away, being told that the promise of not having to wear a mask was not true. I do find that very aggravating. On the other hand if I’m told I need to wear a mask to go into a store that’s what I will do. I just don’t think the government belongs in personal decision making with respect to medical issues and has no right to tell people that they have to stick a needle in their arm.

No- I don’t even know if there is a reason to label real, everyday people “ anti- vaxxers” and even if you do, they are not necessarily the same people who don’t want government mandates about masks or lockdowns.  Seems like millions who got the vaccine don’t agree with the ever changing story coming from the Fauci/CDC, and want to reap the benefits of having the vaccine, or at least the responsibility of having that choice.

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2021/07/government-distrust-driving-younger-detroiters-covid-vaccine-hesitancy-university-of-michigan-survey-says.html

This one saddens me greatly...

Nobody can deny that the Tuskegee experiment was a heinous and dark stain on our society. Nobody can deny that it has eroded trust in the African-American community for pretty much all health authorities.

But the result is that there are now significant numbers African-Americans, based on their distrust for the health system, who are forgoing this vaccine. A vaccine for a disease that has been disproportionately affecting African-Americans (largely due to underlying health conditions and lower SES).

Basically, because 60+ years ago in our history we had an issue where African-Americans were given short shrift and abused by our medical system, they're denying themselves the vaccine that rich educated white people have been seeking in droves. It could further widen racial disparities in our society, because in areas where perhaps both parents work [or dad isn't around], it might fall to a grandma or an aunt to help with childcare--and that grandma or that aunt might be far more vulnerable to COVID. You can't help with childcare if you're on a ventilator.

It's as if they're letting the Tuskegee experiment hurt them twice. I wish it weren't this way...

Well spoken. 

EAGAN, Minn. -- As the Minnesota Vikings began their second week of training camp down three of four quarterbacks due to a COVID-19 interruption, coach Mike Zimmer doubled down on his frustrations aimed at unvaccinated players and the likelihood that the situation his team currently faces could become a reality during the regular season.

"I just feel like we're going to have guys miss games," Zimmer said. "There are so many cases going on right now. We're going to have guys miss some games and we have to be prepared for it."


Zimmer didn't mask his frustrations at his players and "everybody" who has not received the COVID-19 vaccine. "Going through all the things you had to do last year with masks, protocol, traveling, can't leave for a day, can't go out and see your family and all the things -- can't go out to dinner on the road, have to wear masks on the plane, all that stuff. It was just difficult," Zimmer said. "I just don't understand. I just don't understand. I think we could put this thing to bed if we all do this. But it is what it is."

The Vikings coach said he spoke again with his team regarding his stance on vaccinations and the negative consequences of being unvaccinated following Saturday's disruption.

"I talked to the team, and like I said before, there are quite a few guys that are just against it," Zimmer said. "I'm not going to be able to change their mind, so, it's like half the country, I guess."


Zimmer ponder the question: How would he react if the Vikings lost a game because their starting quarterback or a star player was unavailable due to COVID-19 protocols?

"Probably won't be happy we lost the game, first, and I probably won't be happy we could've prevented this," Zimmer said. "Like I said, these guys, some of them just won't do it. I shouldn't say it, but some of the things they read is just, whew, out there."

"It's their beliefs, so. I don't know if it's misinformation. It's their belief, so whatever they've heard or read or been told. Not from -- maybe they don't believe what [NFL chief medical officer] Dr. [Allen] Sills and the NFL is telling them either, so."

Basically, because 60+ years ago in our history we had an issue where African-Americans were given short shrift and abused by our medical system, they're denying themselves the vaccine that rich educated white people have been seeking in droves. It could further widen racial disparities in our society, because in areas where perhaps both parents work [or dad isn't around], it might fall to a grandma or an aunt to help with childcare--and that grandma or that aunt might be far more vulnerable to COVID. You can't help with childcare if you're on a ventilator.

It's as if they're letting the Tuskegee experiment hurt them twice. I wish it weren't this way...

Yeah, I wish they were better at picking and choosing when they were being lied to.