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Topic: Rank these teams

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bayareabadger

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #154 on: December 16, 2020, 12:12:11 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on December 16, 2020, 12:06:49 PM
My argument is games should matter. SOS is a great tiebreaker. I can buy that you give teams a mulligan when playing a tough schedule. But your argument and the committee are saying it literally doesn't matter what Cincy or anyone in the wrong conference does on the field. This makes the games pointless.
Schedule really matters, except when your program did something before, then schedule doesn't matter. 

I honestly don't even mind if "they kicked the hell out of most teams" is a metric, as you can apply that in a lot of spots. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #155 on: December 16, 2020, 12:16:35 PM »
I suspect this year if we line up how many decent teams any of these guys have played it's a short list.

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #156 on: December 16, 2020, 12:27:28 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on December 16, 2020, 12:06:49 PM
My argument is games should matter. SOS is a great tiebreaker. I can buy that you give teams a mulligan when playing a tough schedule. But your argument and the committee are saying it literally doesn't matter what Cincy or anyone in the wrong conference does on the field. This makes the games pointless.
I agree with you.  Certain schools can look at their schedules for the upcoming year and understand that even if they win all of their games, they won't be national champs or in the playoff.  UCF knows this, Utah learned it.  Tulane, Boise State, and others have learned it.  My point is that this is already known.  You're acting like it's a surprise situation we've never faced before, when it actually happens every 2-3 years or so.

So for these programs, it's up to them to schedule above their weight class OOC while vying to move up to a better conference.  That's what the list of teams I previously provided did.  So now, when FSU or TCU or Louisville wins all their games, they WILL be included.  It took years and years, but they did what they had to do.  

If Cincinnati wants things to change, they have to do what I laid out.  It's that simple.  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #157 on: December 16, 2020, 12:29:52 PM »
How many decent to very good P5 teams want to schedule Cincy?

Until they get to P5, they have limited options.  They might schedule Vandy, maybe.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #158 on: December 16, 2020, 12:31:28 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on December 16, 2020, 12:06:49 PM
My argument is games should matter. SOS is a great tiebreaker. I can buy that you give teams a mulligan when playing a tough schedule. But your argument and the committee are saying it literally doesn't matter what Cincy or anyone in the wrong conference does on the field. This makes the games pointless.
This season, maybe.  With so few OOC opportunities, the G5's didn't have much of a chance.  

The argument is simple.  G5's week-in and week-out play VASTLY weaker opposition than P5's.  Top five teams in the SEC, B1G, AAC, and SunBelt (per Massey's composite
Massey's composite):
  • #1 Bama, #3 tOSU, #5 Cincy, #14 CCU:  Ok, not too far off
  • #6 aTm, #10 IU, #22 Tulsa, #20 LA:  Bigger spread
  • #7 UGA, #15 IA, #25 UCF, #34 ApSt:  bigger spread
  • #13 UF, #18 NU, #50 Memphis, #72 GaSo:  Humongous spread
  • #27 Auburn, #31 UW, #51 SMU, #76 GaSt:  Still larger

The worst team in the SEC and B1G is #120 Vandy but they are a serious outlier.  The next worst in the SEC is #101 USCe while the two worst teams in the B1G are #93 IL and #85 RU:  There are four Sun Belt teams  and two AAC teams 101+ but no B1G teams and only two SEC teams.  
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MaximumSam

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #159 on: December 16, 2020, 12:36:46 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on December 16, 2020, 12:12:11 PM
Schedule really matters, except when your program did something before, then schedule doesn't matter.

I honestly don't even mind if "they kicked the hell out of most teams" is a metric, as you can apply that in a lot of spots.
The thing that gets me is why rank G5 teams at all. Is there any consistent reason to not rank LSU above Cincinnati? They hit all the same criteria - tougher schedule, better win, losses are irrelevant. 
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #160 on: December 16, 2020, 12:39:05 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2020, 12:31:28 PM


 There are four Sun Belt teams  and two AAC teams 101+ but no B1G teams and only two SEC teams. 

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1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
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1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #161 on: December 16, 2020, 12:48:22 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 16, 2020, 12:29:52 PM
How many decent to very good P5 teams want to schedule Cincy?

Until they get to P5, they have limited options.  They might schedule Vandy, maybe.
No one said it's easy.  Cinci needs to swallow its pride and play 2-for-1s.  They need to do whatever they have to do in order to move on up to that deluxe apartment in the sky.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #162 on: December 16, 2020, 12:49:09 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on December 16, 2020, 12:36:46 PM
The thing that gets me is why rank G5 teams at all. Is there any consistent reason to not rank LSU above Cincinnati? They hit all the same criteria - tougher schedule, better win, losses are irrelevant.
Boo-hoo.  You're acting like a little kid now.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #163 on: December 16, 2020, 12:50:32 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2020, 12:31:28 PM
This season, maybe.  With so few OOC opportunities, the G5's didn't have much of a chance. 

The argument is simple.  G5's week-in and week-out play VASTLY weaker opposition than P5's.  

Shhhhh, simple people are only able to recall the ends of the spectrum:  good wins and bad losses. The, you know - 90% in the middle, is hush-hush.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Kris60

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #164 on: December 16, 2020, 01:06:33 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 16, 2020, 12:49:09 PM
Boo-hoo.  You're acting like a little kid now.
Man, that’s honestly an uncalled for reaction to a legitimate question.  You mentioned those criteria as a reason a team like Iowa St should be ranked over Cincinnati.  He correctly points out it can be used for a team with a losing record like LSU to be ranked over them, too.

How is that acting like a kid?
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FearlessF

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #165 on: December 16, 2020, 01:12:04 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 16, 2020, 12:48:22 PM
No one said it's easy.  Cinci needs to swallow its pride and play 2-for-1s.  They need to do whatever they have to do in order to move on up to that deluxe apartment in the sky.
true, all the G5 teams know the reality.

They are all hoping to catch that one season in a decade or two where there are only a few one loss or undefeated P5 teams

then an undefeated G5 team with a "decent" schedule, perhaps a couple solid P5 wins, not Kansas. will be enough to get them past the 2 loss P5 schools and into the top 4.

obviously this is not likely.  If they want their shot, they know how to get in the top 4.  Play a top 4 schedule and win the games. 
Play Texas or Oklahoma from the Big 12 or Ohio St. or Penn St or Wisconsin from the Big Ten.  Play Clemson or Auburn or Georgia.

no, those teams have little reason to play a really good G5 team.  Play those P5 teams in their house and don't ask for a check.
Otherwise the G5 teams can continue to whine and bitch this time of year.
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MaximumSam

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #166 on: December 16, 2020, 01:15:28 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 16, 2020, 12:49:09 PM
Boo-hoo.  You're acting like a little kid now.
Well it's a kids' game. But it's a real question. Iowa State unquestionably played a tougher schedule than Cincinnati. They also lost 2 games. Where is the line? 3 games? 4 games? 5 games? They beat Baylor and Texas by a combined 10 points. If they lose those games, why shouldn't they still be ranked ahead of Cincinnati?
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FearlessF

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Re: Rank these teams
« Reply #167 on: December 16, 2020, 01:18:47 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 16, 2020, 11:01:41 AM
Presuming no upsets, Bama and OSU are in, plus the ACC champ.  Upsets are unlikely.  It would be fun if every team got upset (Bama/OSU) to see what happened.

But it's unlikely.  Clemson/ND winner is in, and then a pastry for Bama to hammer like a RHSC.
even before the playoff, many or most fans rooted for multiple upsets this week

it's only happened a few times - 1998?  K-state lost
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