header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?

 (Read 1048 times)

bayareabadger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 4866
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2020, 06:45:38 PM »
Well yeah, it is awesome because he will win you a NC or two, but also frustrating because "what could have been?" Nothing you can do about the Clemson losses, but those unexpected losses cost him at least three at bats in the Playoffs, where you'd think he'd have won at least one more.
The UF tenure was about as good as you could expect. OSU was almost as good, but a little short at the top.

Yes a title is great. But you had at worst the third best program in the land across six seasons. And those produced the one run, 31-0 and four non-playoff or title game trips. Twice MSU denied them, once Iowa, once Purdue. 

MrNubbz

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9863
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2020, 07:27:43 PM »
Yes. He wins some games against better teams and has some slip-ups. And slip-ups sometimes don't get fixed when you get to the big time, and then you're Tom Herman. (I didn't say anything about the teams he beat)

You're right that he lost to teams with multiple championships. Michigan is used to that. (I honestly think he's a very good coach and could well be super at all those spots. But I'd be unsurprised if he runs into those issues)
Who would you pick then?Fickel?just hasn't played the level of compitition - 2nd tier perhaps,has done well.Everyone else I can think of is a stretch or at least unproven.So Campbell IMO has at least as much pedigree/portfolio as anyone else.Obviously an up and comer is out there good luck finding them
"It's the greastest gig in the world,being alive. You get to go to Denny's, wear a hat, whatever you wanna do." - Norm Macdonald

Honestbuckeye

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3114
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2020, 07:45:00 PM »
This thread is making me laugh! You’re talking about legendary coaches like urban Meyer as if they’re doofuses. 

What Michigan needs is very simple. A coach that can give them an offensive and defensive identity, solid recruiting, and hard play every weekend. There are dozens of coached out there that do that consistently better than Harbaugh ever has, at Michigan.  

Hell- there at least 4 or 5 in the Big that would do better with that brand and resources.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MaximumSam

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9824
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2020, 08:11:21 PM »
It's kind of crazy to think that going into the OSU game in 2018, Michigan was favored to win and head to the playoffs.

Brutus Buckeye

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 8661
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2020, 08:15:32 PM »
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Mdot21

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 6103
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2020, 08:56:06 PM »
What Michigan needs is very simple. A coach that can give them an offensive and defensive identity, solid recruiting, and hard play every weekend. There are dozens of coached out there that do that consistently better than Harbaugh ever has, at Michigan. 
Agree with this bolded part 100%. They have had zero identity on offense under Harbaugh, and on defense he's not that involved, he hires his DC and lets him run the show. Which is fine. But Don Brown's defenses- which started out very good- have been in decline. Brown's first year, in total defense they were ranked #4 in 2016, #1 in 2017, and #3 in 2018. There were a couple of embarrassing losses (PSU- 2017 or OSU-2018) but for his first 3 years- it was hard to argue with his results. I don't know what's happened- I suspect it has a lot to do with them losing Greg Mattison and Chris Partridge combined with some teams just catching on to Brown's schemes- but his defenses started really declining in 2019- falling to #25 in total defense- and now they've fallen off the face of the earth in 2020 to #96 in total defense. Whatever identity they had on defense- they've lost it completely- and they honestly really have never had one on offense at all ever since Harbaugh has been there. I think on offense- Harbaugh is just way behind the times and meddles too much. And on defense I think what you're seeing is they are sorely lacking the recruiting chops of someone like Partridge to bring in top players on defense- and they are sorely lacking the coaching/development chops of someone like Mattison who just built really good to sometimes even elite defensive lines year after year.

Michigan can recruit itself in a lot of ways. It's one of those helmet schools that can get itself into any living room and in almost any hat dance. A good coach with some good recruiters on staff will be able to pull in talent, no problem. 

They 100% need systems on offense and defense that give the team an identify and puts the players they do recruit in the best position to win. They 100% need a different culture which gets guys to play harder and they 100% need new position coaches that actually know how to develop the players they get. JayBaugh is the RB's coach. This is a joke. They literally didn't have a QB coach in 2016 or 2017. They literally didn't have a WR's coach in 2017 or 2018. They literally do not have a safeties coach in 2020.

I'd like to see Michigan hire an offensive coach that actually plays a 21st century game and could bring a modern, explosive passing attack to Ann Arbor. Michigan's offensive record books are a joke. They've NEVER had players put up huge numbers at QB or RB. Ever. Just look at the single season records for passing yards, pass TD or rush yards, rush TD's. It's a pathetic joke. 

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 43729
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2020, 06:05:57 AM »
What does it mean to have "identity on offense"?

Let's imagine some team has a potent offense statistically but they sort of mix in a lot of different plays, they run the ball and pass differently, they don't use one standard kind of offense that would confer any "identity"?  Is that a bad thing?

Imagine some offense with terrific balance in talent and play calling and no indentity.

MrNubbz

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9863
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2020, 08:19:45 AM »
Good point CD,I would guess that the identity would be to keep them guessing
"It's the greastest gig in the world,being alive. You get to go to Denny's, wear a hat, whatever you wanna do." - Norm Macdonald

Honestbuckeye

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3114
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2020, 09:12:57 AM »
What does it mean to have "identity on offense"?

Let's imagine some team has a potent offense statistically but they sort of mix in a lot of different plays, they run the ball and pass differently, they don't use one standard kind of offense that would confer any "identity"?  Is that a bad thing?

Imagine some offense with terrific balance in talent and play calling and no indentity.
Why do you need to imagine? Give an example?
That is the point.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 14366
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2020, 09:14:52 AM »
What does it mean to have "identity on offense"?

Let's imagine some team has a potent offense statistically but they sort of mix in a lot of different plays, they run the ball and pass differently, they don't use one standard kind of offense that would confer any "identity"?  Is that a bad thing?

Imagine some offense with terrific balance in talent and play calling and no indentity.
Identity:

U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Honestbuckeye

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3114
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2020, 09:19:42 AM »
Identity:


Unmistakable! 

Alabama, OSU, Clemson, for example are running spread to power.  Spread the field, look to run first with primarily inside and outside zone concepts, many RPOs, With the ability to successfully go with two tight ends and the quarterback under center for power. These are very very hard to defend.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MrNubbz

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9863
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2020, 09:21:51 AM »
All CD is saying why is that a good thing.Today Bama has an air attack that makes Mike Leach envious - 5 years ago it was defense and the running game.Being too predictable isn't a good thing,ya have to be flexible and adapt.Having the identity of winner is the end result one is after however the means
"It's the greastest gig in the world,being alive. You get to go to Denny's, wear a hat, whatever you wanna do." - Norm Macdonald

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 43729
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2020, 09:25:10 AM »
I don't think there is some necessity to have "identity" on offense.  Teams may have one of course and that may be fine, but I don't view it as a necessity.

I'd rather have an offense that was balanced in terms of scheme and talent than one with some "identity".


Brutus Buckeye

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 8661
  • Liked:
Re: Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell...who ya got?
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2020, 09:29:07 AM »
Yeah, you have to be able to adjust your "system" to the roster that you inherit, otherwise you get a RichRod-esque type rebuild. 

How would Cryst do if he inherited a team that was built by Mike Leach? 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.