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Topic: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #168 on: September 20, 2021, 05:50:09 PM »
If Wisconsin fans can't be drunk by 11:00 AM, I will lose all respect for their dedication to the cause. 

Mdot21

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #169 on: September 20, 2021, 05:55:37 PM »
If Wisconsin fans can't be drunk by 11:00 AM, I will lose all respect for their dedication to the cause.
it's Wisconsin. Most of the people there are drunk 23 hours of the day.

MrNubbz

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #170 on: September 20, 2021, 07:01:23 PM »
Nothing like the god fearing studious types in South Beach
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

FearlessF

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #171 on: September 20, 2021, 08:11:39 PM »
Wow y'all sure do love to hate your 11 AM kickoffs. :)

as do the Sooners

FOX SUCKS
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #172 on: September 20, 2021, 11:35:15 PM »
as do the Sooners

FOX SUCKS
ABC's national timeslot is also 11 AM.

If you don't like it, you can join the SEC where CBS slots in their national game at 2:30.


(of course the CBS contract goes away in the next couple of years as well)

bayareabadger

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #173 on: September 21, 2021, 12:16:22 AM »
ABC's national timeslot is also 11 AM.

If you don't like it, you can join the SEC where CBS slots in their national game at 2:30.


(of course the CBS contract goes away in the next couple of years as well)
ABC has the 8 pm EST timeslot?

I don't have the data, but I'd be interested to see the blend of BTN games as well as Fox evening ones. We kind of had that buildup of night games, but it still seemed like ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 often had the best of the haul (I suppose ESPN had UGA-SC last week, so maybe not always)

utee94

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #174 on: September 21, 2021, 10:15:12 AM »
ABC has the 8 pm EST timeslot?

I don't have the data, but I'd be interested to see the blend of BTN games as well as Fox evening ones. We kind of had that buildup of night games, but it still seemed like ABC/ESPN/ESPN2 often had the best of the haul (I suppose ESPN had UGA-SC last week, so maybe not always)
ABC sometimes carries a primetime game but not every week.  Lots of the time those night games are on ESPN/2.

And lots of people seem to use ABC and ESPN interchangeably but they're really not the same at all.  The OTA broadcast network ratings still dominate over the ratings you see from the cable networks.  A primetime game on ESPN is still not really a "national" game, not in the sense that it would be if it were on standard broadcast OTA ABC.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #175 on: September 21, 2021, 11:00:51 AM »
Ohio State-Akron will be a night game. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

847badgerfan

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #176 on: September 21, 2021, 11:01:29 AM »
Yay.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #177 on: September 21, 2021, 12:58:04 PM »
Texas playing at 11 AM Central for the next 3 weeks.  vs. TTech, @ TCU, then OU in the Cotton Bowl.

bayareabadger

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #178 on: September 21, 2021, 03:42:19 PM »
ABC sometimes carries a primetime game but not every week.  Lots of the time those night games are on ESPN/2.

And lots of people seem to use ABC and ESPN interchangeably but they're really not the same at all.  The OTA broadcast network ratings still dominate over the ratings you see from the cable networks.  A primetime game on ESPN is still not really a "national" game, not in the sense that it would be if it were on standard broadcast OTA ABC.

ABC has had a prime time game every week since at least 2018, and probably further back. I’ll investigate more when I’m not at work. (I use them the same because they’re the same company and draw from the same pool of games. ABC just gets some of the more choice options from ESPN)

And this is where the “national” thing gets sort of silly. They’re almost all basically national games. I’ve been out of school 10 years, and the closest I lived to Madison was 6.5 hours away for three years. I’ve never been in a really tight spot not being able to watch a badger game. One of the few good things ESPN ever did was make national access to the sport relatively easy.

utee94

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #179 on: September 21, 2021, 03:53:48 PM »
ABC has had a prime time game every week since at least 2018, and probably further back. I’ll investigate more when I’m not at work. (I use them the same because they’re the same company and draw from the same pool of games. ABC just gets some of the more choice options from ESPN)

And this is where the “national” thing gets sort of silly. They’re almost all basically national games. I’ve been out of school 10 years, and the closest I lived to Madison was 6.5 hours away for three years. I’ve never been in a really tight spot not being able to watch a badger game. One of the few good things ESPN ever did was make national access to the sport relatively easy.
I'm not sure I believe this is true-- speaking specifically of ABC OTA broadcast network television-- but if you have the proof, that's fine.  It doesn't really change the discussion.

But you CAN'T use ABC and ESPN interchangeably, because ABC OTA broadcast is available in more homes than ESPN, and therefore draws higher numbers.  The whole point we're talking about here, is maximizing eyeballs.  ABC believes they can do this best in the 11 AM timeslot, compared to 2:30 PM (or some other kickoff time later in the day but not primetime).  That's the ONLY point we're addressing here-- the complaints from fans, about that early kickoff, and ABC's belief that it maximizes eyeballs on their selected matchup.  That's the sole point of having this discussion.

Anyway, even if they do broadcast a both a primetime game and an 11 AM game every single week, that still means they only have-- at a maximum-- two national timeslots per Saturday.  And they have multiple conferences, with multiple teams playing in those multiple conferences, to fill those two slots.  That's dozens of games, to fill only two slots.

ABC wants their biggest games in those timeslots.  And now, we can add back into the discussion, the fact that Fox also wants the same thing.  So fans of teams that are popular and/or winning a lot, have a larger percentage of their games slotted in at 11 AM Central.  Which is what fans are complaining about, which is the only reason we're even having this ongoing discussion.

I'll also add that ABC and Fox don't care about you or me-- the diehard fans.  They know we'll watch our teams no matter what time, or what station, they're televised on.  They're shooting for casual fans, and they know they can get more of them at 11 AM, than at 2:30, on your average Saturday.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 04:05:51 PM by utee94 »

bayareabadger

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #180 on: September 21, 2021, 10:36:06 PM »
I'm not sure I believe this is true-- speaking specifically of ABC OTA broadcast network television-- but if you have the proof, that's fine.  It doesn't really change the discussion.

But you CAN'T use ABC and ESPN interchangeably, because ABC OTA broadcast is available in more homes than ESPN, and therefore draws higher numbers.  The whole point we're talking about here, is maximizing eyeballs.  ABC believes they can do this best in the 11 AM timeslot, compared to 2:30 PM (or some other kickoff time later in the day but not primetime).  That's the ONLY point we're addressing here-- the complaints from fans, about that early kickoff, and ABC's belief that it maximizes eyeballs on their selected matchup.  That's the sole point of having this discussion.

Anyway, even if they do broadcast a both a primetime game and an 11 AM game every single week, that still means they only have-- at a maximum-- two national timeslots per Saturday.  And they have multiple conferences, with multiple teams playing in those multiple conferences, to fill those two slots.  That's dozens of games, to fill only two slots.

ABC wants their biggest games in those timeslots.  And now, we can add back into the discussion, the fact that Fox also wants the same thing.  So fans of teams that are popular and/or winning a lot, have a larger percentage of their games slotted in at 11 AM Central.  Which is what fans are complaining about, which is the only reason we're even having this ongoing discussion.

I'll also add that ABC and Fox don't care about you or me-- the diehard fans.  They know we'll watch our teams no matter what time, or what station, they're televised on.  They're shooting for casual fans, and they know they can get more of them at 11 AM, than at 2:30, on your average Saturday.


So, this got me curious. The last split evening ABC game was Week 10, 2014 (calling 730 or 8 games evening). Week 7 of that year is the first I found without an evening ABC game. ABC split the 3:30 time slot, had Red River at noon, and the CBS game was king. (Week 2 that year also didn't have an ABC game, and the previous year also had gaps in Weeks 2 and 7)

Anyway, my friend, I'm confused by what you're saying. You wrote "ABC believes they can do this best in the 11 AM timeslot, compared to 2:30 PM (or some other kickoff time later in the day but not primetime).  That's the ONLY point we're addressing here." I'm unclear if this is a hypothetical. ABC's noon game is Texas Tech-Texas. The primetime game isn't super, but it's No. 4 Oklahoma vs WVU. 3:30 is Rutgers-Michigan. The other options, which are on ESPN/ESPN2 are Florida-UT and SC-Kentucky, so an uninspiring batch, with the best in prime time. . 

The primetime ABC game is not only a national timeslot, but it's basically one of the best ones (that and CBS at 3:30 because of the product). You wrote they only have two national timeslots a week, but they run three games (unless you're saying the CBS game blots that out). Which leaves me confused. Everyone as up four timeslots, though many opt for three (if they don't have or want late night fare) or fewer (for inventory and other reasons). Similarly, the idea that you can get more casuals at 11 am compared to 2:30 on a Saturday most of the time isn't true.

What's happening with this game and Fox is a zag of sorts. For a stretch, you didn't have much 
prime time competition. Fox wasn't in the game. CBS didn't have a night game. There were not conference networks for the most part. ESPN/ABC could do what it wanted. But with conference network proliferation, you added four more primetime slots, which both thinned the morning options and made the night crowded field. So Fox is trying to put its best where there's the least competition to see if they can hog more of that pie. For the moment, it's worked. The three games have all ranked top 3 on their Saturdays, with one ranking No. 1 (though to be fair, that's been the game of the year thus far, and in the exact way that drives ratings). 

utee94

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Re: Lions and Tigers and Bearcats, Oh My (SOC 9/18/21)
« Reply #181 on: September 22, 2021, 01:24:18 PM »
So, this got me curious. The last split evening ABC game was Week 10, 2014 (calling 730 or 8 games evening). Week 7 of that year is the first I found without an evening ABC game. ABC split the 3:30 time slot, had Red River at noon, and the CBS game was king. (Week 2 that year also didn't have an ABC game, and the previous year also had gaps in Weeks 2 and 7)

Anyway, my friend, I'm confused by what you're saying. You wrote "ABC believes they can do this best in the 11 AM timeslot, compared to 2:30 PM (or some other kickoff time later in the day but not primetime).  That's the ONLY point we're addressing here." I'm unclear if this is a hypothetical. ABC's noon game is Texas Tech-Texas. The primetime game isn't super, but it's No. 4 Oklahoma vs WVU. 3:30 is Rutgers-Michigan. The other options, which are on ESPN/ESPN2 are Florida-UT and SC-Kentucky, so an uninspiring batch, with the best in prime time. .

The primetime ABC game is not only a national timeslot, but it's basically one of the best ones (that and CBS at 3:30 because of the product). You wrote they only have two national timeslots a week, but they run three games (unless you're saying the CBS game blots that out). Which leaves me confused. Everyone as up four timeslots, though many opt for three (if they don't have or want late night fare) or fewer (for inventory and other reasons). Similarly, the idea that you can get more casuals at 11 am compared to 2:30 on a Saturday most of the time isn't true.

What's happening with this game and Fox is a zag of sorts. For a stretch, you didn't have much
prime time competition. Fox wasn't in the game. CBS didn't have a night game. There were not conference networks for the most part. ESPN/ABC could do what it wanted. But with conference network proliferation, you added four more primetime slots, which both thinned the morning options and made the night crowded field. So Fox is trying to put its best where there's the least competition to see if they can hog more of that pie. For the moment, it's worked. The three games have all ranked top 3 on their Saturdays, with one ranking No. 1 (though to be fair, that's been the game of the year thus far, and in the exact way that drives ratings).

OK so I've looked into it further, and it looks like ABC no longer divides any of its games regionally.  Not sure when they stopped doing that, maybe in the last 5-7 years I guess?  If you recall, they used to have the "regional coverage map" that showed you where your non-national (2:30 PM) game would be broadcast.  The nation would be split between, say, Florida State-Miami on the East Coast,  Oklahoma-West Virginia Central, and UCLA-Oregon on the West Coast.

And the times/networks were listed that way.  11:00 AM would say ABC: Texas- Texas Tech.  And then 2:30 would show "ABC: FSU-Miami/OU-WVU/UCLA-UO"

So 11 AM was the national game, and 2:30 was regional.  (As an aside, this was actually a reversal from what they'd done in the 90s, which had the national game at 2:30, and the regionally splt games at 11 AM.  Somewhere round 2003, they flipped those, after their market analysis told them they had a better chance at capturing the national audience at 11 AM rather than 2:30)

Now there's only one game listed on each network at any given time.  ABC has one at 11, one at 2:30, and so on  Same goes for ESPN and ESPN2. 

I believe they still have the capability to "reverse mirror" those games, in other word they could bump up the LSU-Miss State game at 11 AM from ESPN, to ABC, for a certain region that presumably would include the states of Louisiana and Mississippi, and that would knock the Texas-Texas Tech game down to ESPN, rather than ABC, in that same region.  But, since streaming exists, I don't know how often they actually do this.

Regardless, I will abandon my antiquated use of the words "national" and "regional" as the terms no longer really seem to apply.

And yet that still doesn't change my fundamental argument about the 11 AM kickoff times for ABC and Fox, with respect to fan anger.  Whether it's due to increased exposure in primetime, or additional pressure from CBS/SEC in the 2:30 slot, or other factors-- when ABC or Fox get to pick in the pecking order, they typically choose to put the more desirable matchups at 11 AM, rather than 2:30.  Only one game per week from ALL possibilities, is going to end up on ABC primetime.  So the next-most-desirable matchup, is going to be aired at 11 AM.

And that's what fans are complaining about.  They don't like the early kicks.  But the 11 AM is a preferred timeslot in the view of Fox and ABC, compared to 2:30.  So it's going to keep happening to fans of teams that are popular and/or successful.  And beyond that, it's nothing new.  This has been going on for almost 20 years.  Before CBS carried SEC games, before Fox carried college games, before ABC established primetime games, before the conference networks existed-- ABC was STILL putting preferred matchups at 11 AM, rather than 2:30.

Which is my only point.  I just can't help but be amused by all the fans bitching about 11 AM kickoffs, when that has been the norm for two decades.

And beyond that, there are plenty of other undesirable things the networks do.  Thursday night games.  Early September 3 PM 105-degree kickoffs in Austin, Texas. Etc. 

But the bottom line is that all of our schools have sold out the in-person fan experience, for the sake of the television broadcasting partners' preferences.  We have nobody to blame, but our own schools, for agreeing to all of this.

 

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