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Topic: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?

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rolltidefan

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2019, 08:49:37 PM »
We definitely disagree, and I don't think this is necessarily true.  If that 9-4 Northwestern team actually knocks off 12-1 Clemson and 13-0 Alabama 2 weeks in a row, as you fear, then I don't think there's any "clear delineation" at all.  I'd say your subjective view was completely wrong.  Nothing personal, humans are fallible and prone to bias and agenda.

So eliminate them.  Completely.  One clear goal-- win your conference and you're in.  Everyone knows exactly what it will take.  Seems absolutely fair to me.
I don’t fear that. I certainly don’t think any potential times we’ve come close to that that any of those teams stood a chance. 
What I fear is those teams taking up space that another team that would have a chance and not getting it just because they had a single mishap but were in a more competitive conf/div. 

CWSooner

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #85 on: October 04, 2019, 09:01:01 PM »
And that is ridiculous.  I am pretty confident that there were at least 10 teams in CFB that year that would have ended with 1 loss or less, playing the same schedule that Bama had.  I hate when people just assume the SEC is the best conference.  Sometimes, it isn't. Look at the data. 

All of this could have been avoided if we follow a basic premise.  If you are only going to include 4 teams, it should max out at one team per conference in the playoff.
I'm not sure what you were saying is ridiculous.

FTR, I wasn't saying that I assume that the SEC is the best.  But I do think that the Committee, collectively, operates on that assumption.
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CWSooner

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #86 on: October 04, 2019, 09:11:46 PM »
I've been saying it for years...

8 teams
5 P5 champs
Best G5 team
2 at-large selections

First and foremost, it makes conference championships matter. So what if your team sneaks into the CCG with an 8-4 (6-2) record, by virtue of tiebreakers for your division, and then beats the 12-0 team from the other division? You won your conference. You're in.

That now 12-1 team that you narrowly edged in the CCG game? They didn't win their conference, but they're in decently good shape for an at-large berth at least.

It satisfies the G5 crowd. Sure, that team is a sacrificial lamb to most likely the 1 seed in the CFP. But at least they have a seat at the table.

And 2 at large berths allow for teams that truly ARE special, but didn't win their conference.

It makes too much sense, I know, so I'm not holding out hope it'll happen.
I'd rather go back to 2 teams than go to 8.
Going to 4 teams hasn't resolved the disputes about which teams are "worthy," and going to 8 teams won't either.  Every time the playoff is expanded, the regular season is weakened.
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CWSooner

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #87 on: October 04, 2019, 09:39:30 PM »
just as it is today, only worser
Yes.

In many ways, an 8-team CFP would be worse than what we had now.
Worse for the worst 4 teams of the 8.  They would lose semi-final games and either be left out of bowls or play in some crappy bowl-like games right at the start of bowl season.  Four very good teams would have to end the season on a crappy note.  Currently, most of them would be playing in one of the "other 4" NY6 bowl games against good opponents.
Worse for the fans who want to attend the games but don't have unlimited budgets.
Worse for the value of the regular season.
Worse for avoiding rematches.
Worse for the idea of having "only the best" teams in the CFP.  Just as 2 teams has led to 4, 4 teams will lead to 8, and then 8 would lead to 16.  And even then, there would be mediots telling us that #17 8-4 Auburn, who beat Alabama in the Iron Bowl after the QB who was benched after Game 3 because he threw 6 picks in a loss to The Citadel comes in and leads the Tigers to two late TDs, the second one--the game-winner--scored on the final play of the game, is a deserving team and it's a crying shame that we have such a crappy little 16-team playoff that leaves out such a team with such a great story.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #88 on: October 04, 2019, 09:39:45 PM »
This was guaranteed to be messy the moment an entity with 5 major conferences chose a playoff with 4 spots.  F- Notre Dame...but all of you dismissing them with "they can join a conference", guess what?  They're not going to.  Nor will they ever be made to.  That's a lazy reaction to the real issue of the Irish.




An 8-team playoff, however its constructed, will produce a 3-loss national champion (on a long-enough timeline).  It's virtually guaranteed.  Have fun with that.  
Let's just give the trophy to a 9-7 team like the NFL!




This is for the title of best team in the country.  Yes, let's make it exclusive (not inclusive).  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #89 on: October 04, 2019, 10:34:57 PM »
This was guaranteed to be messy the moment an entity with 5 major conferences chose a playoff with 4 spots.  
maybe paying athletes in Cali will disband the PAC

the 4 remaining conferences could have a nice neat little 4-team playoff
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utee94

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #90 on: October 04, 2019, 11:44:06 PM »
This was guaranteed to be messy the moment an entity with 5 major conferences chose a playoff with 4 spots.  F- Notre Dame...but all of you dismissing them with "they can join a conference", guess what?  They're not going to.  Nor will they ever be made to.  That's a lazy reaction to the real issue of the Irish.




An 8-team playoff, however its constructed, will produce a 3-loss national champion (on a long-enough timeline).  It's virtually guaranteed.  Have fun with that. 
Let's just give the trophy to a 9-7 team like the NFL!




This is for the title of best team in the country.  Yes, let's make it exclusive (not inclusive). 

This is true of every playoff in every sport in every year, ever.  The "best team in the country" isn't going to lose to a 9-4 scrub.  If they do, they weren't the best.  Win the playoff games, earn the title.  Really simple stuff.

utee94

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #91 on: October 04, 2019, 11:46:48 PM »
I don’t fear that. I certainly don’t think any potential times we’ve come close to that that any of those teams stood a chance.
What I fear is those teams taking up space that another team that would have a chance and not getting it just because they had a single mishap but were in a more competitive conf/div.

If that team that "lost its spot" had won its conference, it would be in.  Lose whatever game loses you the conference title, and you're out.  I'm 100% okay with that.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #92 on: October 05, 2019, 01:44:06 AM »
So lose OOC game to an average team?  Sure!  No prob!
Lose a conference game to a top 10 team?  Don't you dare!  




Hard pass.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #93 on: October 05, 2019, 06:36:48 AM »
The "best team in the country" CAN lose to a 9-4 team.  They might be say 17 point favorites, but there is a chance they'd lose.  We see upsets all the time, they are unusual and unexpected, but they happen.  UNC, not a 9-4 team, almost beat Clemson recently.  Clemson may of course not be the best team, but UNC will end up maybe 5-7.

The probabilities are that the "best team" would not win an 8 game playoff.  Those other 7 teams are pretty good, not quite the best, but on a given day ...

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #94 on: October 05, 2019, 10:14:45 AM »
I don’t fear that. I certainly don’t think any potential times we’ve come close to that that any of those teams stood a chance.
What I fear is those teams taking up space that another team that would have a chance and not getting it just because they had a single mishap but were in a more competitive conf/div.
But that's where the at large comes in. You give room for conference non-champions that are worthy teams. 

CWSooner

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #95 on: October 05, 2019, 10:34:14 AM »
What's the purpose of the CFP?  Is it to make sure that the best team is crowned as national champion?

If it is, then expanding the playoff is counter-productive.  The more teams you add, the more certain it is that the best team will not emerge as the playoff winner, and the more likely it is that you get a pretty good team that gets hot at the end winning it all.  Like Jim Valvano's Wolfpack beating Phi Slamma Jamma in the NCAA Tournament.

We know going in that the #8 team is not the best in all the land, as demonstrated over the course of a season.  So why put that team in a post-season playoff where it might get lucky and win the thing?

So the CFP must be for some other purpose.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #96 on: October 05, 2019, 11:01:57 AM »
Sports as a whole are a sliding scale of competition (finding out who's best - ie...for the players/coaches/etc) vs entertainment (for the fans buying a ticket).  Yes, the entertainment matters, as otherwise, football games with no one watching don't have rankings and playoffs and billions of dollars.





But without the competition aspect, it doesn't work, either.  It's only entertaining because of the competition (although some people might like football because of the pretty colors or tight pants).  Akin to Herm Edwards' "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME" - the fans watch to "SEE WHO WINS THE GAME" and how.  



As a sliding scale, it can move up and down - towards and away from either end (competition/entertainment), but it may not get too close to either end.  At the expense of either end, the game loses meaning.  If it's all about competition, you sort of get what baseball was this year (HR derby disguised as the game of baseball) and it's not as fun to watch.  If it's all about entertainment, (like college basketball), it doesn't really matter who ends up winning...which saps the motivation of the competitors themselves.




I'm simply wary of the scale tipping too far towards the entertainment side of things.  It's not about "SEC vs the world" or anything like that.  I just want the best team to be deemed the champion as often as possible - with the best team being the best combination of roster and results.  This does NOT include rewarding them fully for winning this set of games (conf) and ignoring losing this other set of games (OOC).  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Is the Big Ten top to bottom the 2nd best conference in America?
« Reply #97 on: October 05, 2019, 11:04:57 AM »
And what in the hell absurdity was it when the college basketball tournament went from 64 to 68 teams?  The hell???  They couldn't stand to lose 4 bubble teams from big conferences who went 18-13?  

That's embarrassing.  Oh, and $$$$$$$$$$.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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