header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

 (Read 3651849 times)

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 32270
  • Liked:
Meh.  it’s like speed limits. You’re allowed to drive your car, but there are rules involved that take into account other people in property.  This is no different.

The people that object with claim it’s on the grounds of first amendment rights, but what they really mean is they want the right to have violence and destruction in their protest 
Mostly peaceful.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9644
  • Liked:
Meh.  it’s like speed limits. You’re allowed to drive your car, but there are rules involved that take into account other people in property.  This is no different.

The people that object with claim it’s on the grounds of first amendment rights, but what they really mean is they want the right to have violence and destruction in their protest 
This, via the text of the law, is as if the speed limit was zero from 10 PM to 8 AM.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 23447
  • Liked:
This, via the text of the law, is as if the speed limit was zero from 10 PM to 8 AM.
No, it's actually more like, you can drive your car all over town at any time of day you like, but you can't drive your car specifically on campus, between 10 PM and 8 AM.  In fact it's exactly like that.

And what do you know-- UT has a closed campus and you can't drive your car on the main part of campus at ANY time of the day.

According to you that's unconstitutional.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9644
  • Liked:
plenty of good laws on the books
no need for another one with time limits
enforce the laws, punish the bad actors
This would be a tough one for the “enforce the law“ approach.

in fact, the only way it isn’t a huge disaster if it’s almost never enforced.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9644
  • Liked:
No, it's actually more like, you can drive your car all over town at any time of day you like, but you can't drive your car specifically on campus, between 10 PM and 8 AM.  In fact it's exactly like that.

And what do you know-- UT has a closed campus and you can't drive your car on the main part of campus at ANY time of the day.

According to you that's unconstitutional.
You’re being funny, and I like that.

Replace “driving your car” with “ expression protected by the first amendment.” That includes complaining about the restaurant selection at the student union and and talking and declaring that Texas A&M sucks. Prohibited after 10 PM and before 8 AM. Letter of the law.

I have to admit, I think that’s not good. it seems a lot of other people think that’s very good. Suppose we will just disagree.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 23447
  • Liked:
You’re being funny, and I like that.

Replace “driving your car” with “ expression protected by the first amendment.” That includes complaining about the restaurant selection at the student union and and talking and declaring that Texas A&M sucks. Prohibited after 10 PM and before 8 AM. Letter of the law.

I have to admit, I think that’s not good. it seems a lot of other people think that’s very good. Suppose we will just disagree.
The bill is specifically about assembly.  So no, talking about restaurants isn't prohibited.  Employing the logical fallacy of an appeal to extremes doesn't support your argument.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9644
  • Liked:
The bill is specifically about assembly.  So no, talking about restaurants isn't prohibited.  Employing the logical fallacy of an appeal to extremes doesn't support your argument.

The actual text of the bill, now a signed law, is not specifically about assembly, thus the issue. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 23447
  • Liked:
The actual text of the bill, now a signed law, is not specifically about assembly, thus the issue.
The entire bill is about assembly.  But continue to pearl-clutch over it if you must.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 23447
  • Liked:
These are the types of activities covered by the idea of expressive activity.  So yeah, you're right that you can't carry a sign around after 10 PM or before 8 AM expressing how mad you are about the selection of campus restaurants, or how much you hate Texas A&M.  I'll fly to the defense of any student or campus employee who is imprisoned or fined for doing such.


  • Assemblies 

  • Protests 

  • Speeches 

  • Distribution of written material 

  • Carrying signs 

  • Circulating petitions 


bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9644
  • Liked:
The entire bill is about assembly.  But continue to pearl-clutch over it if you must.
Read the text. Right at the top it says, for some reason, it’s about more than assembly. 

Hopefully an accident becuase someone was being dumb and not as a weird power grab. But still odd to put into law. 

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9644
  • Liked:
These are the types of activities covered by the idea of expressive activity.  So yeah, you're right that you can't carry a sign around after 10 PM or before 8 AM expressing how mad you are about the selection of campus restaurants, or how much you hate Texas A&M.  I'll fly to the defense of any student or campus employee who is imprisoned or fined for doing such.


  • Assemblies

  • Protests

  • Speeches

  • Distribution of written material

  • Carrying signs

  • Circulating petitions


Actual text of the law: "Expressive activities" means any speech or expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution or by Section 8, Article I, Texas Constitution, and includes assemblies, protests, speeches, the distribution of written material, the carrying of signs, and the circulation of petitions.

So it makes sure to include those things, but does not limit it to them. Probably would’ve been smart to do so.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 23447
  • Liked:
Read the text. Right at the top it says, for some reason, it’s about more than assembly.

Hopefully an accident becuase someone was being dumb and not as a weird power grab. But still odd to put into law.
It's about assembly, but includes the other "expressive activities" I listed above, which are all still basically involved in the activities of organized assembly.

It's not about a group of friends yapping over their favorite restaurants, nor how much Texas A&M sucks-- which of course is quite a bit.

 Again, it's possible that it's worded poorly enough that it could be used for unintended purposes.  On that much at least, if it ever comes up for challenge, I suppose we'd see the courts render an opinion.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 23447
  • Liked:
Regardless, it's clear that it's targeted at the kind of overnight occupation/demonstration protests that sparked violence and damage at campuses around the country, over the past couple of years.  Legislators clearly felt that the existing laws on the books against overnight camping, or noise ordinances, or other tangentially related issues, weren't enough.  They wanted to ensure that it couldn't happen on the campuses of Texas schools.

It's between 10 PM and 8 AM, and it's specific to university campuses, and not any other public spaces within a town or city.

I'm honestly surprised you're not bringing up the part about "no masks or face coverings" which seems to me, to be a more clear violation of civil rights.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9644
  • Liked:
Regardless, it's clear that it's targeted at the kind of overnight occupation/demonstration protests that sparked violence and damage at campuses around the country, over the past couple of years.  Legislators clearly felt that the existing laws on the books against overnight camping, or noise ordinances, or other tangentially related issues, weren't enough.  They wanted to ensure that it couldn't happen on the campuses of Texas schools.

It's between 10 PM and 8 AM, and it's specific to university campuses, and not any other public spaces within a town or city.

I'm honestly surprised you're not bringing up the part about "no masks or face coverings" which seems to me, to be a more clear violation of civil rights.
I didn’t bring up the masks because honestly, it seems like something that wouldn’t yield interesting discussion (though the other thing produced more arguing for arguing sake, which I didn’t totally expect).

The mask thing is a good “I should be able to do what I want” topic, but I’m sure plenty of people here would go to the mattresses for, “what you want to do is bad or could be bad, and the goverment should restrict it.” And there isn’t much path there because for a lot of folks, if they wouldn’t want to do it, they don’t see much reason the law should protect it.

The speech thing was more interesting to me becuase it’s an obvious screw up, and I assumed, incorrectly, it wouldn’t immideitly draw folks strongly to its defense, so perhaps some more illuminating chatting about it could happen.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.