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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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SFBadger96

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Of course: this is political theater. Which is as old as time, and fine, to an extent. It isn't going to move the ball on any of the ills actually facing the nation, will continue to inflame supporters (which is the point), and, generally, is a distasteful, but unavoidable part of politics, which has only gotten worse with the way information is shared today.

Cincydawg

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The only "legitimate" point I can imagine is the use of the autopen on various signings, and whether it was in every case legit.


847badgerfan

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The only "legitimate" point I can imagine is the use of the autopen on various signings, and whether it was in every case legit.


That's what congress is looking to find out.

Who was running the country? Jill?
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Cincydawg

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With maybe a few exceptions, I view "Congressional hearings" as "grandstanding", not actual investigations into anything.  They almost never come up with anything of substance.  Comer in my view is one of the worst at this.  Well, OK, Schiff, and a lot of others are as bad.

MrNubbz

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it's pretty clear ol' Doc here was covering for Biden's mental and physical health in order to keep the guy in the White House and out of the nursing home.
The whole facking Jackass Party and their shills in the press covered it up as it was obvious to everyone except other dementia patients.When he was shuffling his feet grabbing the back of his pants and walking past SS agents pointing towards an entrance door
"An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out" Will Rogers

SFBadger96

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This is what I sent out last November to everyone in my mailbox and in this thread somewhere

https://youtu.be/UOTAdvc1MJM
I like George Carlin. He was a good comedian. But there is a fundamental difference in a democracy--this was the revolution that was started in the late 1700s.

Yes, the powerful are just that, very powerful. BUT who has the power is different, and their interests are different. In autocracy, the government has all the real power. So if you are in Russia, Putin is the boss, plain and simple. Sure, he keeps the rich in his pocket by largely doing what they want, but he can turn on them in an instant, and they have no recourse.

In a democracy, that power is diffused--out to other powerful interests, rather than the government. Does the government have a lot of power? Absolutely. But it is also a check on even the most powerful (people like Epstein, for instance), and Bill Gates, and Elon Musk (neither of whom appears to be anything like Epstein).

The wealthy still have a great deal more power than you and I do (and many of us, because we are pretty well off, have more power than people with significantly fewer resources). But that power is limited by the competition for resources among us. Which, helpfully, also helps to grow the amount of resources. Capitalism is useful that way. But it requires rules, otherwise you end up with consolidation of power in the hands of very, very few. 

One area that Carlin gets very wrong (notwithstanding, it is a funny/good bit) is that the Bill Gates's, Elon Musks, etc., Warren Buffets, and Koch brothers do want a well educated populace. They need it. They don't make their money without a well-educated and productive upper and middle class. Now, how much they want to pay for that is another question. No one likes paying taxes because it isn't a direct benefit. We're happy to pay for a car (after we negotiate for it) because it's a direct benefit: I pay this, I get that. Taxes don't work that way. It's all indirect benefits, which sucks. Even Social Security, which many people don't think of as a tax (and the government tries very hard to keep you from thinking of it that way), still isn't a direct benefit (although it's closer to it--which is why it has so much better political support than even infrastructure spending, which is also very popular). 

That's one of the reasons the democratic west has generated so much wealth compared to other nations. The only places that can compete are oil-rich countries, so bully for them: they happen to have a resource that the industrialized world is addicted to, but even there, you would almost certainly rather be a middle class worker in the U.S., Austria, England, or South Korea, than a middle class worker in Saudi Arabia.

This is no small thing: look at the pace of industrialization between the fall of Rome and the enlightenment? It was marginal, at best. But once the Enlightenment hits, and democracy starts to take hold, holy cow, things took off. That's a function of a lot of things, but it includes the dramatic change in politics and its associated power.

All of which is to say that I'm not happy with the direction our democracy is trending right now, but I'd still take democracy every day of the week and twice on Sunday over the centralized power in China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela, Turkey...And we should be vigilant about preventing too much centralization of power with the government. Even if the wealthy are still mostly "in charge," it's better for them to be fighting for the power, than for the centralized government to have it.

See, I'm not a crazy leftist. Crazy, maybe. :-)

MrNubbz

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"Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big Red,White and Blue Dick that's getting jammed up their "Backsides" everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth - it's called The American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it" - George Carlin
"An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out" Will Rogers

Cincydawg

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I've seen many cases where the "American Dream" was very real and very positive.

It's easy to focus on anything negative and start to presume it's all bad.

medinabuckeye1

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1) Pleading the fifth amendment always looks shady.
2) Pleading the fifth amendment is often advised by attorneys, even if the person doesn't think they did anything wrong.
3) Refusing to answer on the basis of the physician patient privilege also confuses this topic a bit more--doctors are not supposed to testify about their patients (except in limited circumstances) without patient approval, and a great deal of medical information is highly personal.
4) If you are answering questions that are intended to illicit embarrassing answers for you or your client, you are going to try to avoid doing that to the full extent afforded by law.
5) As much as I know and respect several cops, they--and government agencies like them--are looking for things that are wrong, not things that are right. Refusing to give the government information that it might then use to prosecute you is generally smart, even if it is embarrassing in the court of public opinion.
6) As noted above, the right to avoid self incrimination does not protect the witness from civil claims. They can refuse to testify, but the finder of fact can use that as a reason to find against them.

So yeah, this looks shady.
I agree with all of this and @Cincydawg 's point that the Congressional "Investigation" is mostly just grandstanding.  

@847badgerfan 's reference to the auto-pen is interesting but, as a practical matter, I don't think any court would touch that.  Frankly, that is a can of worms better left unopened.  

847badgerfan

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All of which is to say that I'm not happy with the direction our democracy is trending right now, but I'd still take democracy every day of the week and twice on Sunday over the centralized power in China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela, Turkey...And we should be vigilant about preventing too much centralization of power with the government. Even if the wealthy are still mostly "in charge," it's better for them to be fighting for the power, than for the centralized government to have it.

See, I'm not a crazy leftist. Crazy, maybe. :-)
I'm not happy with the democracy that our republic has been slowly turned in to by those in power - in their effort to consolidate their power and remain in power.

Nowhere in the Constitution is the word "democracy" used. That was by intent - power to the people and all that.

We're nowhere close to that right now.
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847badgerfan

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I agree with all of this and @Cincydawg 's point that the Congressional "Investigation" is mostly just grandstanding. 

@847badgerfan 's reference to the auto-pen is interesting but, as a practical matter, I don't think any court would touch that.  Frankly, that is a can of worms better left unopened. 
Unauthorized use of the autopen is a criminal offense.

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Afterwards, Johnson asked Biden why he had inked an executive order pausing new permits for American liquid natural gas export to European allies — a crucial issue for his constituents in the Bayou State, which in 2023, handled 61% of the nation’s LNG exports, according to the US Energy Information Administration.

“Why would you do that? Cause you understand we just talked about Ukraine, you understand you are fueling Vladimir Putin’s war machine, because they gotta get their gas from him,” Johnson said he told Biden.

Biden was stunned, Johnson said.

“I didn’t do that,” the president said, according to Johnson.

“Sir, you paused it, I know. I have the export terminals in my state. I talked to those people in my state, I’ve talked to those people this morning, this is doing massive damage to our economy, national security,” Johnson said he told the commander-in-chief.

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OK, who did it? Yes, I want to know.
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FearlessF

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I doubt you will ever find out 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

brisco_0317

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How would the doctor incriminate himself by answering some questions?  Did he somehow break a law?

If he has nothing to hide, why would he incriminate himself?

847badgerfan

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I doubt you will ever find out
As do I, and that's just shitty.
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