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Topic: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes

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Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46634 on: July 09, 2025, 12:25:06 PM »
Why would he care?  He also asserted doctor-patient privilege, which is not a shock.

Biden doctor Kevin O'Connor declines to answer questions in House deposition
Biden doctor Kevin O'Connor declines to answer questions in House deposition

Former President Biden’s White House doctor, Kevin O’Connor, declined to answer questions during a deposition with the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee on Wednesday, according to a statement from his legal counsel, citing physician-patient privilege and constitutional rights against self-incrimination.

“Earlier today, Dr. Kevin O’Connor asserted the physician-patient privilege, as well as his right under the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, in declining to answer questions from the staff of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform regarding his service as Physician to the President during the Biden Administration,” the statement from O’Connor’s legal counsel said.


SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46635 on: July 09, 2025, 12:38:10 PM »
1) Pleading the fifth amendment always looks shady.
2) Pleading the fifth amendment is often advised by attorneys, even if the person doesn't think they did anything wrong.
3) Refusing to answer on the basis of the physician patient privilege also confuses this topic a bit more--doctors are not supposed to testify about their patients (except in limited circumstances) without patient approval, and a great deal of medical information is highly personal.
4) If you are answering questions that are intended to illicit embarrassing answers for you or your client, you are going to try to avoid doing that to the full extent afforded by law.
5) As much as I know and respect several cops, they--and government agencies like them--are looking for things that are wrong, not things that are right. Refusing to give the government information that it might then use to prosecute you is generally smart, even if it is embarrassing in the court of public opinion.
6) As noted above, the right to avoid self incrimination does not protect the witness from civil claims. They can refuse to testify, but the finder of fact can use that as a reason to find against them.

So yeah, this looks shady.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46636 on: July 09, 2025, 12:41:15 PM »
I'd be OK if the doctor just said he was not allowed to comment on Biden's health situation beyond what they made public after his exam.  Maybe it would make him open to discipline by the AMA, don't know, if it turned out that report was ... incomplete.

I also opine Republicans see political benefit in pushing this line of inquiry.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46637 on: July 09, 2025, 12:43:29 PM »
yup, politicians rarely go to prison
This is what I sent out last November to everyone in my mailbox and in this thread somewhere

https://youtu.be/UOTAdvc1MJM
"It is better to have died a young boy than to fumble the football" - John Heisman

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46638 on: July 09, 2025, 12:44:01 PM »
Of course: this is political theater. Which is as old as time, and fine, to an extent. It isn't going to move the ball on any of the ills actually facing the nation, will continue to inflame supporters (which is the point), and, generally, is a distasteful, but unavoidable part of politics, which has only gotten worse with the way information is shared today.

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46639 on: July 09, 2025, 12:45:07 PM »
The only "legitimate" point I can imagine is the use of the autopen on various signings, and whether it was in every case legit.


847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46640 on: July 09, 2025, 12:46:26 PM »
The only "legitimate" point I can imagine is the use of the autopen on various signings, and whether it was in every case legit.


That's what congress is looking to find out.

Who was running the country? Jill?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46641 on: July 09, 2025, 12:50:54 PM »
With maybe a few exceptions, I view "Congressional hearings" as "grandstanding", not actual investigations into anything.  They almost never come up with anything of substance.  Comer in my view is one of the worst at this.  Well, OK, Schiff, and a lot of others are as bad.

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46642 on: July 09, 2025, 12:52:14 PM »

it's pretty clear ol' Doc here was covering for Biden's mental and physical health in order to keep the guy in the White House and out of the nursing home.
The whole facking Jackass Party and their shills in the press covered it up as it was obvious to everyone except other dementia patients.When he was shuffling his feet grabbing the back of his pants and walking past SS agents pointing towards an entrance door
"It is better to have died a young boy than to fumble the football" - John Heisman

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46643 on: July 09, 2025, 01:02:22 PM »
This is what I sent out last November to everyone in my mailbox and in this thread somewhere

https://youtu.be/UOTAdvc1MJM
I like George Carlin. He was a good comedian. But there is a fundamental difference in a democracy--this was the revolution that was started in the late 1700s.

Yes, the powerful are just that, very powerful. BUT who has the power is different, and their interests are different. In autocracy, the government has all the real power. So if you are in Russia, Putin is the boss, plain and simple. Sure, he keeps the rich in his pocket by largely doing what they want, but he can turn on them in an instant, and they have no recourse.

In a democracy, that power is diffused--out to other powerful interests, rather than the government. Does the government have a lot of power? Absolutely. But it is also a check on even the most powerful (people like Epstein, for instance), and Bill Gates, and Elon Musk (neither of whom appears to be anything like Epstein).

The wealthy still have a great deal more power than you and I do (and many of us, because we are pretty well off, have more power than people with significantly fewer resources). But that power is limited by the competition for resources among us. Which, helpfully, also helps to grow the amount of resources. Capitalism is useful that way. But it requires rules, otherwise you end up with consolidation of power in the hands of very, very few. 

One area that Carlin gets very wrong (notwithstanding, it is a funny/good bit) is that the Bill Gates's, Elon Musks, etc., Warren Buffets, and Koch brothers do want a well educated populace. They need it. They don't make their money without a well-educated and productive upper and middle class. Now, how much they want to pay for that is another question. No one likes paying taxes because it isn't a direct benefit. We're happy to pay for a car (after we negotiate for it) because it's a direct benefit: I pay this, I get that. Taxes don't work that way. It's all indirect benefits, which sucks. Even Social Security, which many people don't think of as a tax (and the government tries very hard to keep you from thinking of it that way), still isn't a direct benefit (although it's closer to it--which is why it has so much better political support than even infrastructure spending, which is also very popular). 

That's one of the reasons the democratic west has generated so much wealth compared to other nations. The only places that can compete are oil-rich countries, so bully for them: they happen to have a resource that the industrialized world is addicted to, but even there, you would almost certainly rather be a middle class worker in the U.S., Austria, England, or South Korea, than a middle class worker in Saudi Arabia.

This is no small thing: look at the pace of industrialization between the fall of Rome and the enlightenment? It was marginal, at best. But once the Enlightenment hits, and democracy starts to take hold, holy cow, things took off. That's a function of a lot of things, but it includes the dramatic change in politics and its associated power.

All of which is to say that I'm not happy with the direction our democracy is trending right now, but I'd still take democracy every day of the week and twice on Sunday over the centralized power in China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela, Turkey...And we should be vigilant about preventing too much centralization of power with the government. Even if the wealthy are still mostly "in charge," it's better for them to be fighting for the power, than for the centralized government to have it.

See, I'm not a crazy leftist. Crazy, maybe. :-)

MrNubbz

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46644 on: July 09, 2025, 01:07:58 PM »
"Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big Red,White and Blue Dick that's getting jammed up their "Backsides" everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth - it's called The American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it" - George Carlin
"It is better to have died a young boy than to fumble the football" - John Heisman

Cincydawg

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46645 on: July 09, 2025, 01:13:35 PM »
I've seen many cases where the "American Dream" was very real and very positive.

It's easy to focus on anything negative and start to presume it's all bad.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46646 on: July 09, 2025, 02:00:11 PM »
1) Pleading the fifth amendment always looks shady.
2) Pleading the fifth amendment is often advised by attorneys, even if the person doesn't think they did anything wrong.
3) Refusing to answer on the basis of the physician patient privilege also confuses this topic a bit more--doctors are not supposed to testify about their patients (except in limited circumstances) without patient approval, and a great deal of medical information is highly personal.
4) If you are answering questions that are intended to illicit embarrassing answers for you or your client, you are going to try to avoid doing that to the full extent afforded by law.
5) As much as I know and respect several cops, they--and government agencies like them--are looking for things that are wrong, not things that are right. Refusing to give the government information that it might then use to prosecute you is generally smart, even if it is embarrassing in the court of public opinion.
6) As noted above, the right to avoid self incrimination does not protect the witness from civil claims. They can refuse to testify, but the finder of fact can use that as a reason to find against them.

So yeah, this looks shady.
I agree with all of this and @Cincydawg 's point that the Congressional "Investigation" is mostly just grandstanding.  

@847badgerfan 's reference to the auto-pen is interesting but, as a practical matter, I don't think any court would touch that.  Frankly, that is a can of worms better left unopened.  

847badgerfan

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Re: OT-Politics Thread: please TRY to keep it civil, you damned dirty apes
« Reply #46647 on: July 09, 2025, 02:03:00 PM »
All of which is to say that I'm not happy with the direction our democracy is trending right now, but I'd still take democracy every day of the week and twice on Sunday over the centralized power in China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Venezuela, Turkey...And we should be vigilant about preventing too much centralization of power with the government. Even if the wealthy are still mostly "in charge," it's better for them to be fighting for the power, than for the centralized government to have it.

See, I'm not a crazy leftist. Crazy, maybe. :-)
I'm not happy with the democracy that our republic has been slowly turned in to by those in power - in their effort to consolidate their power and remain in power.

Nowhere in the Constitution is the word "democracy" used. That was by intent - power to the people and all that.

We're nowhere close to that right now.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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